State Champ Radio Record Labels
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Since January 2016, musicians who have struggled with the vagaries of compensation and regulation in their industry have been able to turn to one of their own for guidance, support and solidarity. That year, Richard James Burgess — who produced four top 20 U.K. hits for Spandau Ballet, managed bands, performed in one and oversaw business operations for Smithsonian Folkways Recordings — became president/ CEO of the American Association of Independent Music.
Next January, Burgess will step down after leading the organization through what Louis Posen, founder of indie label Hopeless Records, describes as “a period of unprecedented growth.” Under Burgess’ purview, Posen says, “A2IM has expanded its membership, created more opportunities for members and launched signature events like Indie Week and the Libera Awards.”
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During his 10 years at the helm of A2IM, Burgess also “built a highly engaged coalition of indie labels, large and small, and lobbied hard for them in Washington and across the music industry,” says Mark Jowett, co-founder and president of A&R at Nettwerk Music Group. “He fights each day for fairness and a level playing field,” adds Concord COO Victor Zaraya. “I will miss working with him.”
Burgess says that his stint leading A2IM has been animated primarily by a single principle: “Do what’s best for the creators. It’s the music business. But without the music, there is no business.”
Why did you decide it was time to move on from your role leading A2IM?
I made up my mind when I started that 10 years would be my limit. Mostly my career has fallen into 10-year chunks by accident. I tend to get to a point where I feel like I’m repeating myself. I like to do new things. Also, I think it’s good for the organization to have new leadership.
Over the decade that you’ve run A2IM, how has the definition of “independence” changed?
It still means the same thing it always did. People get confused about what corporate structures do around independence as opposed to what independence means. It means that you own your own copyrights or you have the freedom to do things the way you want to do them. Most artists, if they have the option, decide to go independent rather than with a major because they can steer the direction of their career more. Majors have extremely high goals for sales, and that usually takes a lot of compliance with certain kinds of criteria.
You don’t think that the major labels’ recent acquisitions of indies has changed the definition of independence?
The question is, how much does corporate ownership affect your ability to do the things you want to do? I don’t think it’s a healthy universe where all independents are channeled through the majors. But this is not a new thing. There was a peak of independence in the late ’50s and early ’60s.
There’s a long history of majors buying up indies, but is that happening at a different scale? Universal Music Group [UMG], for example, bought Downtown, which includes FUGA, which provides distribution for many indie labels.
That’s really upsetting a lot of independents. Having said that, there are options. Every time there’s consolidation, there’s a commensurate opening up of opportunities for new businesses and entrepreneurs.
What do you see as the biggest wins during your time running A2IM?
Coming in, I had several goals. One was to expand the organization, to make it more robust and as stable as possible. I think we’ve achieved that. Our revenues are much higher than they were. Indie Week is now a pretty established international conference. The other thing I’m really proud of is that we now are really established in advocacy. Nothing really happens in D.C. without us being involved. We get calls from congresspeople or their offices when there are any issues that might affect the sector, whereas we used to find out about it second- or third-hand or from the press that something was happening that could affect us.
How were you able to bolster the organization’s advocacy operations?
I [previously] worked at the Smithsonian, so I was in the D.C. scene for years, and I had a lot of helpful insight when I came to [A2IM]. The first couple of years, we didn’t have any lobbyists. We had to scrape the money together to afford our current lobbyists. They do an amazing job, and they don’t kill us financially. But frankly, we can spend 10 times as much money on lobbying and we still would not match what our opponents spend.
What are the priorities on the lobbying side?
We’re actually launching our own bills now. We have the HITS Act — that would let independent artists deduct up to $150,000 in music production expenses immediately. Another one is the American Music Fairness Act, which would make sure that artists could get paid from airplay. I’m really happy that songwriters get paid — this is not a zero-sum game. But radio stations are making money from selling ads against those records. Some of those ad dollars should go to the singers.
Another bill we think is really important is the Protect Working Musicians Act, which we launched with the Artists Rights Alliance. It would allow small- and medium-size enterprises — could be an artist, could be a group of labels or publishers or songwriters — to collectively negotiate against much larger [digital service providers] and AI [artificial intelligence] companies. These are among the largest companies that have ever existed. The leverage they have is completely disproportionate. You look at the statements people like Jack Dorsey and Elon Musk are making, which is that [intellectual property] should be considered fair use. When you look at the profits Meta forecast the other day, it’s hard to see why the source material they use to fuel this tool should be free. Nothing else is free. The coding is not free. The storage is not free.
Where are you and the RIAA aligned, and where do you differ?
We’re in constant communication with the RIAA, and we’re aligned on a lot. They’re part of the musicFIRST Coalition [which aims to “end the broken status quo that allows AM/FM to use any song ever recorded without paying its performers a dime”]. There are some differences, but we are 100% aligned on the idea that we need to preserve and increase the value of music copyrights.
In 2023, UMG CEO Lucian Grainge said that while conflict in the music industry was once primarily between indies and majors, today’s divide is “those committed to investing in artists and artist development versus those committed to gaming the system through quantity over quality.” Do you agree?
In 1999, the music industry reached its peak. We’re still down from that in terms of adjusted dollars. And that’s not accounting for the additional usage these days — anecdotally, I think there’s a lot more music consumed today than there was in 1999. Simply because of phones and [earbuds], accessibility has vastly increased. The reason we’re in this position is because we don’t control our pricing or distribution anymore. We gave that up in 1999 when we let Napster slip through our fingers. That can’t happen again. Obviously, we’re not in an exactly parallel situation with AI as we were with the transition to digital. But I do think it’s the music industry and musicians versus the tech platforms. Tech platforms want to lower the cost of what they call “content” and I call “music.” The musicians and the labels want to increase the value.
Are you taking any vacation after you officially step down?
I’m not good at vacation. A vacation to me is doing something different.
Latin music executive Horacio Rodriguez has launched Fundamentals, a new artist and label services company headquartered in Miami. “Launching Fundamentals marks a new chapter in my journey to support and elevate Latin artists by reimagining their path to success — rooted in innovation, cultural impact, creative freedom, and the long-term sustainability of their businesses in […]
The Coca Cola Company and Universal Music Group have partnered on the launch of a new imprint, Real Thing Records. or rtr.
The venture will focus on signing and developing emerging talent from around the world, with the label focused on all genres. The first signees are French-New Zealand artist Max Allais, who clocked a hit this year with his single “When The Party Ends.”
Real Thing Records. has also signed Indian singer, songwriter and producer, Aksomaniac, whose music fuses jazz, hip-hop and R&B with traditional Carnatic music.
Each new signing will be a joint effort between Real Thing Records. and a Universal Music Group label counterpart in each artist’s respective territory, to provide both local support and global growth. For Allais these frontline labels will be Better Now Records and Universal Music Germany) and for Aksomaniac they will be Def Jam Recordings India/Universal Music India.
“The Coca-Cola Company has a rich legacy, one of deep human connection and cultural resonance—breaking barriers and bringing people together across borders and generations,” says Joshua Burke, The Coca-Cola Company’s global head of music and culture.
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“Real Thing Records. is designed to unlock greater potential for artists, fans, and our brands—where creativity fuels growth and the combined power of our network and key global music partners create value greater than the sum of its parts,” Burke continues. “It’s our intention to let artists shine and give them the flexibility to develop their identities with the support of global reach and expertise. It’s a long-term commitment to music—enabling us to reinvest in our programs, champion the next generation of talent, and stay rooted in what matters most: music and fandom.”
This is not the first partnership between The Coca Cola Company and UMG, with UMG also previously serving as the label partner for Coke Studio, an initiative that has recruited superstar artists like Usher, Tyla, Karol G, Peggy Gou and NewJeans to participate in projects like original songs, festival experiences and live performances.
“For years, Universal Music Group and The Coca-Cola Company have shared a belief in the power of music to spark connection and shape meaningful experiences,” says Universal Music Group for Brands executive vice president Richard Yaffa. “With the launch of Real Thing Records., we are taking that vision further – joining forces to build a modern label that champions artistry and amplifies emerging voices on global and local stages, while giving fans the cultural moments they crave.
“Both companies recognize the long-term value of investing in artistic innovation,” Yaffa continues, “and our past work together has consistently demonstrated how music can move people and create lasting impact. The evolution and continued success of our several collaborations stands as a testament to what’s possible when we align creativity with cultural relevance.”
In 2015, Dana Biondi was looking for the future.
The frat-rap and weed-rap crazes in the early 2010s catapulted artists like Wiz Khalifa and Curren$y to fame, but by the middle of the decade, Biondi — who had promoted shows at New Haven, Conn., club Toad’s Place and had some rap management experience — sensed a different energy on hip-hop’s horizon. “I had really seen a lot of the fans sit at shows and just kind of bob their head,” he recalls. “I knew that the industry was pushing toward a new movement.”
Biondi found that future in $uicideboy$. At the dawn of what would come to be known as the SoundCloud rap era, the New Orleans hip-hop duo, consisting of cousins $crim and Ruby da Cherry, had quickly attracted a passionate cult following with their strikingly personal lyrics, rock-influenced sonics and attitude, and, particularly, their riotous live shows. “The first show that I went to to see them was at the Roxy [in Los Angeles] — and it was chaos like I had never seen before,” says Biondi, now 36. “Between the mosh pits and the fandom and the overall show just being… chaotically beautiful, in a way. I [knew] that they were really special.”
He started managing the Boy$ shortly after — along with longtime friend Kyle Leunissen, who introduced him to the duo — while also serving as music manager for G59 Records, the cousins’ own label. Distributed by The Orchard, G59 now boasts a battalion of similarly minded artists like Shakewell, Germ and Night Lovell who have since cultivated their own fan bases. But the empire all revolves around $uicideboy$, who have not only hit the top 10 of the Billboard 200 with each of their four official studio albums but also become a popular arena act with their annual Grey Day Tour (which in 2024 grossed $50.7 million, according to Billboard Boxscore) and a dominant brand in artist merchandise. (Biondi cites merch sales of over $30 million in 2024 alone.)
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Biondi initially endeared himself to $uicideboy$ and proved his capabilities by helping organize their early merch operations. But his versatility is what made him indispensable; now a G*59 label partner, he finds himself “jumping from a marketing call to a merchandising call to a call directly with the artist, to a call with the artist’s family, to a call with a major label, to a call with a lawyer,” wearing many different hats for both artist and label. (In a more literal hat-wearing sense, during his Zoom call with Billboard, Biondi reps the brand with a GREY59 skull-and-crossbones cap that complements a G59 RECS hoodie.)
And as Biondi has helped the duo build its empire, they’ve mostly avoided traditional pathways to mainstream success: The pair, which has no real conventional hits and only reached the Billboard Hot 100 for the first time in 2024 (with “Us vs. Them,” which peaked at No. 96), has minimal radio promotion and does few media appearances. But Biondi is proud of what he has achieved with the Boy$ — who’ve already surpassed 1 billion on-demand U.S. streams in 2025 alone, according to Luminate — largely outside of the broader industry machine, and he believes it will only get easier for artists like them to blaze their own trails.
“If you’re a phenomenal artist and you’re very creative and you wrap the right team around you, the world’s yours,” he says. “I think that the future is indie.”
Dana Biondi photographed May 20, 2025 in New York.
Matthew Salacuse
When you saw $uicideboy$ the first time, could you see parallels between them and any other artists?
At the time, the fandom is what caught me. I saw how the crowd was chanting “G59.” I saw how mesmerized these fans were. There was only, what, 300 or 400 at the show? Maybe even less than that. But they were so engaged — and I just recognized early on the brand [strength]. And to me, that’s the most important thing: creating a brand and creating the stickiness of a brand with fans. That’s what will keep you around forever.
As far as comparing them [to other artists], I saw a combination of a hard-rock audience that was wearing black — and that was like skaters and more alternative — but then, obviously, they’re rappers, so I was able to hear the hip-hop influence of Three 6 Mafia and Bone [Thugs-N-Harmony]. It was kind of the perfect mesh of both genres, and that was really appealing to me because I had grown up listening to a lot of Bone Thugs and a lot of different alternative music.
They’re obviously much bigger now. When was the first moment that you went, “OK, this isn’t just something that can happen — this is something that is currently happening”?
When we started working full-on together, one of the first things I did was I brought them overseas and had them play proper club rooms. That was kind of a defining point — I was in the middle of Europe and the fandom was insane. I was like, “Man, this is going to work on a very big level, both here and domestically.”
A large part of our early success was doing a proper tour with proper routing overseas, in Australia and in Europe, and kind of showing the U.S. fans that this was a cultural movement and it was worldwide… and they were pulling the same amount, if not more, of people overseas than they were pulling in the U.S. The U.S. had to play a little bit of catch-up.
It’s pretty unconventional for mainstream acts to do an annual outing like the Grey Day Tour, as opposed to touring in conjunction with an album or a promotional cycle. What made you confident that this was the best touring strategy?
Growing up, I had always loved the concept of Warped Tour and how they went to so many different cities and brought so many different people around. It really created a yearly concert that each fan, no matter what, just signed up for. They were like, “We trust the Warped team to give us a great bill.”
The year that we started Grey Day [2019] — the year before was the last year of Warped. I saw a void in the marketplace, and that’s where Grey Day came from. Our lane was emerging, and it was very similar to that hard-rock, Warped lane — but it was obviously much more focused on hip-hop.
So I said, “Let’s just create our own yearly [tour], and let’s always look at some new artists that are up-and-coming — some friends that we just like to work with and like to tour with — and continue to keep it fresh and new and give the fans what they want.”
Dana Biondi photographed May 20, 2025 in New York.
Matthew Salacuse
Earlier this year, Billboard reported that you guys were shopping the catalog. Why did you think now’s the time for that, and has anything come of it yet?
It’s something that we are doing, and we just felt like it was a good time to try and gauge interests, really, and see where the market was for it. The guys have put out a lot of great music, and we plan on putting out a lot more albums and a lot of other great music. We look at the new music, starting this year, as the next phase of $uicideboy$. We’re just interested in the reach of the old music and looking for a partner to possibly consider for that.
But nothing firm there yet?
We have something firm, but it’s not done yet. So I can’t really speak on that.
Are there specific goals that they or you and the team have for the next few years?
We’ve hit so many different home runs in terms of touring and ticket sales and merchandise sales and streaming numbers. It would be nice to finally get some notoriety on the awards side of things, just because we feel like we are one of the biggest artists in music and our numbers and all of our credits show it.
And then, other than that, just continuing to make the Grey Day Tour bigger and continuing to get more eyes and views on the music. There’s still so many times where somebody will ask me what I do and I’ll tell them, and they’ll say, “Oh, I’ve never heard of those guys.” Which means that there’s more fans for us to attract. It’s always something that I enjoy hearing and shows that we still have some more work to do.
Would $uicideboy$ play the Grammys?
(Laughs.) I think so. They would definitely do it their own way because that’s how we do it. But I think they would. I think they would rock the house, and I think the rest of the world would view that performance as something really different and something that they might enjoy themselves. A lot of people would discover the $uicideboy$ on a stage like that.
Dana Biondi photographed May 20, 2025 in New York.
Matthew Salacuse
As $uicideboy$ become $uicidemen, have you had a conversation with them about what the next 10 or 20 years look like? So much of what they’ve done so far is centered on youth culture and around their fans discovering them at a formative time in their lives. And I’m sure that’ll continue. But as the guys enter their 30s and 40s, have you talked about how to keep the brand vital?
We like to focus on about a year or two at a time. It just helps us stay more on the pulse. I mean, nobody knows how or where music is sonically going – and they don’t focus too much on the overall sound of everything. But I think our focus is always about a year or two out, and we kind of plan our moves accordingly. Like I said, they’re going to be around forever. What that looks like in five to 10 years? I don’t know.
Time will tell. We’ve worked at a really fast pace to this point between doing 50-, 60-, 70-plus shows a year and traveling the world and putting out two to three albums a year. Their pace has been phenomenal. At a certain point, it’s got to let up. But for now, we have a lot of great releases and a lot of really good plans in the future for the next couple of years.
What advice would you give young artists or labels that are just starting to catch their footing?
Picking the right people around you and formulating a team is the most important thing for me. Having everything from an agent to a lawyer to a marketing guy… It’s not just a one-man show — it’s a whole team, and everybody has responsibilities on that team to move the ball downfield. I would also say concentrating on your fans and continuing to develop your brand.
There has been a lot of discourse about the lack of developed hip-hop superstars in the past five years — but it seems like when people have those conversations, they’re mostly talking about the top-level crossover hit-makers of the last 30 years. Do you think cult stars like $uicideboy$ are the future of hip-hop stardom? Is the future of hip-hop independent?
I think so. Fans are now just focused on what they want to listen to. We did so many years of going on a playlist, like a RapCaviar, and finding out about songs. And now I think word of mouth is back and hearing about songs — whether it’s through quick videos like Instagram or TikTok or friends that are listening and hearing about new sounds — I think it’s back to the streets, even though the streets are in a different form these days.
Digital streets.
Yeah, the digital streets — and I think that’s the key to the future. People will take notice over time. It might not happen immediately — or it might happen immediately — but people will take notice. It’s all about developing that brand and creating something that has stickiness and has power.
This story appears in the June 7, 2025, issue of Billboard.
Secretly Group has announced a partnership with Merge Records as the veteran indie label’s co-founder and co-president exits the business.
The announcement sees Secretly co-founders Ben Swanson, Chris Swanson, Darius Van Arman and Phil Waldorf acquiring a 50% stake in the company. Meanwhile, Merge co-founder Mac McCaughan will continue in his role as label president and head of A&R, though co-founder and co-president Laura Ballance will leave the business.
Other Merge staffers maintain their roles within the company, including label director Christina Rentz, Merge marketing director Jamie Beck and head of digital Wilson Fuller.
Merge was founded by MacCaughan and Ballance in North Carolina in 1989 as a means of independently releasing music made by those within their immediate circle of friends. This included groups such as MacCaughan’s Bricks and Wwax, alongside Metal Pitcher and Superchunk, which both featured MacCaughan and Ballance as members.
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Merge would attract plenty of attention throughout the ’90s and ’00s thanks to releases by bands such as Neutral Milk Hotel, The Magnetic Fields and Arcade Fire, with the latter proving to be a breakout success in the new millennium, giving the label their first appearance on the Billboard 200 with 2004’s Funeral, and first chart-topper with 2010’s The Suburbs.
“We continue to be inspired and amazed by the musicians we work with,” MacMcCaughan said in a statement. “I have known many of the people in the Secretly world for decades, and I know that they share Merge’s dedication to artists and getting their music into the hands of as many people as possible.
“We have seen this in action working with Secretly Distribution’s international team since 2012, and are excited about what the future looks like with the strength and experience of Secretly Distribution working for Merge artists around the world, and now here at home. I know Laura has her own exciting future ahead, and I am excited to continue and expand upon the label we’ve run for 36 years.”
“It was never my goal to start a record label when I was 21 and run it for the rest of my life,” Ballance said of her exit from the company. “I have been doing this for 36 years now. Life is short. There are other things I have always wanted to do: make more art, travel for fun, volunteer more, write a book and lots of other things that being so entrenched in running a business does not allow me to do.
“Merge Records started as a literal bedroom label, in my bedroom, and lived there for a few years before we were able to give it some space of its own. It has always been a labor of love. I am going to miss it and all the people and bands tremendously.”
“When we heard that Laura was looking to move on from Merge, we immediately engaged in conversations with Mac and Laura about what a new partnership with Secretly could look like,” explained Waldorf, Secretly co-founder.
“We looked up to Merge as we started our labels. We are not just fans of the music they’ve released, but their independent ethos and commitment to being an artist-first company,” he added. “Becoming a partner in Merge is beyond a dream for me – I saw Superchunk for the first time when I was a teenager, before I even knew you could have a full-time job in independent music, and attended Merge’s 5th Anniversary celebration at the Cat’s Cradle while I was a college student in Athens, GA, making this a real ‘pinch me’ moment three decades later.”
As MacMcCaughan noted, Merge has already been working with Secretly Group’s sister company Secretly Distribution for marketing and distribution services outside of North America for over a decade now. As part of the new partnership, Merge will continue to operate as a standalone label based in Durham, NC, while utilizing Secretly Distribution’s worldwide distribution arm and aspects of the Secretly ecosystem such as accounting, artist royalties, business affairs, licensing, IT and HR.
“Our aim is to support Merge with the independent ecosystem we’ve built at Secretly, while preserving what’s truly special about what Mac and Laura have built over the past 36 years, such that we can support Merge’s growth in the decades to come,” added Swanston, Secretly Co-Founder.
The first new album to be released following this partnership, and the first to be distributed worldwide by Secretly, will fittingly be Superchunk’s Songs in the Key of Yikes, which is scheduled for an Aug. 22 release.
In a stylish, cozy office in the Echo Park neighborhood of Los Angeles, a dozen or so Ninja Tune employees sit around a conference table, everyone locked in on their laptops.
There’s a quiet hum of productivity as staffers work on the daily tasks that add up to the label’s prolific output — work that has helped define and expand electronic and indie music culture since Ninja Tune’s creation 35 years ago.
Founded in London by Matt Black and Jonathan More, who together made music as Coldcut, Ninja Tune now employs a staff of roughly 100 that primarily works in London and L.A. Given that geographic reach, Marie Clausen, Ninja Tune’s managing director of North America since 2022, calls 7:30 a.m. PT — which is 3:30 p.m. in London — the hallowed “golden hour” of each day.
“That’s the time for us to connect,” Clausen says while sitting in the office’s upstairs lounge area, where the walls are hung with album covers from Bonobo, Thundercat, Bicep, ODESZA and many of the other acts who’ve helped define the label’s roster and creative ethos since 1990.
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Originally from northern Germany, Clausen cut her teeth in the Berlin rave scene before eventually relocating to L.A. She now oversees an operation that includes the label, publishing company Just Isn’t Music and Ninja Tune Production Music, a library of stock music whose year-over-year revenue recently rose by 20%.
These latter two entities help subsidize the still fully independent Ninja Tune label. Recent synchs include music by the rising Brooklyn electronic outfit Fcukers featured in an Apple Keynote presentation; label artists TSHA, Logic1000, Machinedrum and many more having their music placed in projects spanning video games, film and TV; and a recent contract that secured the largest individual synch deal in the company’s history. While the track and brand are confidential, the campaign generated over $1 million — highlighting, Clausen says, “the scale and potential of our synch business.”
Ninja Tune also encompasses a collection of sublabels and partners including Flying Lotus’ influential Brainfeeder imprint, ODESZA’s Foreign Family Collective, Counter Records and Big Dada, with the team thus altogether touching a wide swath of artists and genres.
“Music and culture are the fires that keep us all going,” Clausen says. “That’s the real essence; that’s the texture; that’s what sticks, and then you build the business around it to amplify it.”
As Ninja Tune marks its 35th anniversary, Clausen reflects on the label’s recent successes, competing with the majors and more.
What are some of Ninja Tune’s biggest successes from the last few years?
One of the biggest milestones is continuing to work with team ODESZA on everything we’ve achieved over the years. I started working with them about 10 years ago, and obviously, we landed a No. 3 Billboard 200 album [with A Moment Apart in 2017]. Last year, they sold out three Madison Square Garden shows, which was an amazing milestone for them. Then we had several Grammy Award [nominations] and several gold and platinum records. [In 2021], we also brought their label, Foreign Family Collective, into Ninja Tune. That whole relationship just continues to be really strong, and it’s an amazing team. They’re very ambitious, very forward-thinking and very fan-first.
Then during COVID, we released Thundercat’s It Is What It Is album on Brainfeeder. That was another massive milestone. The record came out in April 2020 during the height of COVID, and we had to pivot many, many times throughout the campaign. He’s an incredible artist to work with — very, very talented. Ultimately, it also led to a lot of great chart success and a [best progressive R&B album] Grammy win for Thundercat.
What about on the broader business side?
Over the last couple of years, we’ve seen continued growth across the business, specifically in streaming. We went from the streaming revolution to the social media revolution, and now we head on into AI [artificial intelligence]. With Ninja Tune, we’re always trying to face this with a really open mind and keep an eye on where consumption is going and lead the business into that.
How does this approach extend the ethos of the label’s earlier days?
Back in the day, Matt Black and Jonathan More already had a very innovative, forward-thinking approach. They played with CD-ROMs, they had video mashups. They did something called Pirate TV, which is like what Instagram Live is now. It’s ingrained in the DNA of the company to really lean into new technologies and innovation.
Marie Clausen
Sarah Golonka
Tell me about the current state of your roster.
We have a very stylistic, diverse roster. We already talked about ODESZA and Thundercat, who are incredible and who we continue to work with. Black Country, New Road just released a new album called Forever Howlong that reached top three in the U.K. and sold [11,000] physical copies in the U.S. in its first week alone, after we set up over 150 listening parties and had a very bespoke campaign and an artist who really leaned in.
Then there’s Barry Can’t Swim. He’s amazing. He’s releasing his sophomore album, Loner, this summer, and his career has exploded since he launched his artist career three years ago. He had record attendance at Glastonbury last year and already received a Mercury Prize and a BRIT Award nomination. Here in Los Angeles, in April of last year, he played the El Rey, which is just under 1,000 capacity. Then last weekend, he sold out two shows at the Shrine with a combined 10,000 capacity.
It’s a wonderful team to work with, really forward-thinking, and the sound is incredibly warm and also very clubby and really sticks. There’s also amazing art that goes with it, and he’s an artist that has a fantastic sense of humor and keeps it fresh.
An artist like Barry Can’t Swim could presumably sign with a lot of different labels. What brings him to Ninja Tune?
We have a very ambitious team that, if they get a no, [they] turn it into a yes. We’re really dedicatedto building artist careers. We also handle every campaign and every artist we work with [gets] a very bespoke, white-glove treatment.
Someone like Barry is receiving full attention from the team. We have several offices across the world. There are just under 100 worldwide Ninja Tune employees. We are experts in physical and digital marketing. We know how to run e-commerce. We are really good at [customer relationship management] strategies.
We also know how to market toward different niches and then bring [those niches] into the mainstream. That’s one of the areas we’ve been successful in over the last couple of years.
Whether you look at Maribou State or some of the other artists we work with, it’s not necessarily music you would say is made for the mainstream, but [we can help guide] its way into the mainstream. Having that sort of superpower to know how to drive that forward and drive artist careers is one of our strongest selling points.
Your artist nimino had a big moment last year when his track “I Only Smoke When I Drink” went viral. As a label, how do you capitalize on that virality and harness it into something long-lasting?
We were really able to break him in the sense that when his single started going viral on TikTok, nobody really knew of him yet. We worked very closely with his management team and really leaned in on all the different aspects of the marketing campaign and were very ambitious in all areas.
[The result] has been just incredible to see. He played Coachella this year. His profile on Spotify went from roughly 500,000 monthly plays to 5 million within something like 50 days. It was really fun to work with a moment like that and then lean in and drive it forward.
What competitive advantage does being independent give you?
We’re quick to adapt. In some ways, we’re like the mailman; we are delivering one record after the next, but technology is changing so fast that we need to continue to rethink all the time. We have this very fresh, innovative mindset, and that allows us to pivot really quickly.
Do you feel you’re competing with the majors?
One hundred percent we are competing with the majors. It’s not our goal to compete with the majors. Our goal is to just be the best service to our artists and drive the company forward, but obviously, if you’re working at the forefront of the market, then you are competing. There are always majors around that are equally trying to sign our records, but that’s great. It keeps us on our toes, and it means we can deliver really good results. We’re challenged by that and that’s wonderful.
What are the keys to building a strong team?
It sounds cheesy, but I feel very blessed to work with the team that I do. I find that I’m learning a lot from everyone all the time, especially the younger generations, because they have such different views. The key is nurturing really talented people. We have some [employees] that were coming out of college that now have thriving careers. We’re empowering them, and there’s so much we can learn from them.
It’s also about being fluid while also offering structure. To increase our productivity, we set a rule that meetings are ideally not longer than 15 minutes. We call those micro meetings, and it really has changed the way we work. It helps everyone to really stay on track while we are also supporting hybrid work and all the different things it takes to work together in 2025.
In 2025, is there one thing that’s moving the needle for artists more than any other?
Obviously, we are working in an environment that’s very oversaturated. We see a massive amount of content. One challenge we have is the stickiness of content because there’s so much that’s competing.
One of the main things we see that works really well is to have a proper superfan strategy and to make sure that every time a music lover comes across your music one way or the other, whether it’s via TikTok or a streaming platform, Bandcamp, whatever it is, there is a strategy to get that fan or potential fan into your funnel.
Then it’s being very original with your art and your creativity and being easily identifiable for what you stand for and giving the fan a reason to fall in love with you and put your poster up on the wall. From that superfan strategy, the key points are to then look at [having] great social media, great live shows and great art that ideally is non AI-able.
This story originally appeared in the June 7 issue of Billboard magazine.
If owning two versions of four of her Big Machine albums presents a challenge to Taylor Swift, it’s a great problem to have. Then again, it might not be a problem at all.
At first blush, it might seem that Taylor Swift’s decision to purchase her Big Machine master recordings presents her with a difficult decision. Does she emphasize the original versions or the high-profile re-recordings that many fans have purchased and streamed? Then again, Swift isn’t necessarily forced to choose between the two versions of her catalog. Conversations with multiple music industry veterans revealed there are many options for monetizing the Big Machine releases and getting the most out of her investment.
Swift’s immensely successful re-recordings, given the name “Taylor’s Version,” have amassed 15.8 million track equivalent albums (TEAs) in the U.S. so far, according to Luminate. But despite driving her fans to those re-recordings, the four Big Machine versions have continued to perform well. Year to date, the original versions of Fearless, Speak Now, Red and 1989 have a total of 331,000 track equivalent albums in the U.S. — about 40% as much as the re-recorded albums.
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When Shamrock owned the Big Machine masters, Swift effectively had veto power over requests for synch licenses. If a music supervisor wanted a track from one of her Big Machine albums, Swift, who is either the sole songwriter or a co-writer on every track, could refuse to grant permission for the publishing rights. And she announced her intention to do just that in an interview with Billboard after Ithaca bought her catalog in its 2019 Big Machine acquisition, saying she would license her music for movies and commercials only if she owned the master rights. That’s why a 2020 Match.com ad used a re-recording of “Love Story,” not the Big Machine original.
Owning the Big Machine masters opens the door for more synch licenses. Whether the music supervisor wants the original or the re-recording, Swift, as the sole owner of both versions, has a financial incentive to put her songs in ads, films, TV shows and movie trailers, says Bryan Calhoun, a marketing consultant. “I would say, ‘Hey, let’s go crazy. I own this stuff. Let’s go hard.’ And I would have some people dedicated to really being aggressive about going and getting licenses.”
Owning her Big Machine catalog will also create more synch opportunities because some directors and music supervisors will want Swift’s original versions. Michael Hausman, manager of Aimee Mann and ‘Til Tuesday, says Mann re-recorded her song “Wise Up” to keep 100% of the revenue. “It worked out well,” he says. “Most people probably could never tell the difference.” But some music supervisors “just don’t like the idea of a re-record and they want the original,” he adds, “even if there’s no difference” between the two.
Swift’s most fervent fans supported her re-recordings and, in some cases, showed solidarity in her feud with Scooter Braun, whose Ithaca Holdings acquired Big Machine, by avoiding the Big Machine originals. Her four Taylor’s Version re-recorded albums, stuffed with additional material and released in multiple variations, have sold a combined 6 million units to date in the U.S. across digital download and physical formats, according to Luminate. Sales and streaming executive Adam Abramson believes that Swift would similarly find a welcome response to reissues of the original albums.
“While the Swifties were happy to accept the re-records at that time so that they did not have to buy or stream the original, ‘problematic’ versions, I think most will be thrilled to be able to listen to the original albums as they were recorded at those respective points in Taylor’s life,” says Abramson.
Album reissues tend to coincide with anniversaries, and owning her Big Machine catalog gives Swift the opportunity to celebrate her original albums’ 20th anniversaries. Her self-titled Big Machine debut — which was not re-recorded — will turn 20 next year, followed by Fearless in 2028, Speak Now in 2030, Red in 2032 and 1989 in 2034. That gives Swift eight years to repackage her first five Big Machine albums. And considering how well her four re-recorded albums sold, it’s reasonable to think Big Machine anniversary editions could see a similarly strong response from fans.
Owning two versions also gives Swift additional streaming revenue. While Swift has pushed her re-recordings, the Big Machine versions had the benefit of inertia. The four original Big Machine albums have accumulated 406 million on-demand streams in the U.S. in 2025. That’s about two-fifths of the streams from the re-recorded albums, but that many streams — worth 293,000 TEAs — will generate well over $2 million in annual royalties in the U.S. alone.
News of the Swift purchase is an opportunity for digital service platforms (DSPs) to take advantage of fans’ interest, says Adamson. “I would not be surprised, and have already started to see, the DSPs highlighting her newly owned catalog again.” Indeed, on Wednesday (June 3), just four days after Swift announced the acquisition, Apple Music took to Instagram to encourage subscribers to delve into Swift’s entire catalog.
There’s also the lesson of Garth Brooks, who bought his Capitol Records masters in 2005 and took them off streaming and download stores. Brooks tightly controlled the availability of his catalog, first licensing the recordings to Walmart in 2005, then to Amazon in 2017. Brooks has also made deals with select retailers — Bass Pro Shops, Cabela’s, Dollar General — to sell his box sets. Downloads of his music were also made available at GhostTunes, an online music store launched by Brooks in 2014. Brooks could do whatever he wanted because he owned the masters.
Swift could take the Brooks route and do exclusive deals with digital and e-commerce platforms. But it seems more likely that she will capitalize on her unique ability to motivate consumers and maximize her catalog’s availability across all sales and streaming channels. Swift can arguably squeeze more out of her catalog than any one DSP or e-commerce platform, and she’ll do more with it than an investor like Shamrock. “It’s more valuable in her hands than in somebody else’s hands,” says Calhoun.
Music Corporation of America (MCA) has promoted Rob Femia to chief operating officer, adding COO to his duties as executive vp of business and legal affairs. The label group’s imprints include EMI Records Nashville, Lucille Records, Mercury Nashville and MCA Nashville, representing artists including Eric Church, Keith Urban, Carrie Underwood, Chris Stapleton, Dierks Bentley, Alan […]
Rainy Monday mornings are rarely settings for celebration. But on this one, The Orchard CEO Brad Navin has 48,000 reasons to smile: The vinyl edition of Bad Bunny’s DeBÍ TiRAR MáS FOToS has finally shipped, returning the album to No. 1 on the Billboard 200 with the largest vinyl sales week since Luminate began tracking data in 1991.
It’s the Puerto Rican star’s fourth straight Billboard 200 chart-topper, all of which have been released through his label, Rimas, in partnership with The Orchard, the services company that launched as a digital distributor in 1997. After an initial investment in 2012, Sony bought The Orchard outright in 2015, and since — through smart mergers and competitive acquisitions of companies like IODA, RED and AWAL, as well as a global outlook and a top-tier services offering — it has become the U.S. market leader among all distribution companies, boasting an 8.9% current market share for 2025 through May 15, according to Luminate, nearly triple its next-closest competitor.
For the past 15 years, Navin — who joined the company initially in 2003, rising to interim CEO in 2010 before taking over the post full time shortly after — has steered that ship, navigating it through the streaming revolution, the globalization of the business and, more recently, the democratization of music that has led to distribution becoming the industry’s hottest sector, with dozens of new startups and millions in private equity funding flooding the space.
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Still, as Navin notes, “No one has invested in the independent sector more than The Orchard has in the last 15-plus years. We have helped our clients sign artists, grow their business, grow rights within their business, expand where their business might be located — there is not a client in The Orchard that has not grown dramatically while they’ve been with us.”
From the start, The Orchard did things differently. Co-founders Richard Gottehrer and Scott Cohen started the company years before the iTunes Store revolutionized digital downloads and quickly took a global approach. “For years, it was difficult for independent artists to get noticed and get distribution, and early on, we realized it almost didn’t matter where you were from or what language you were speaking — music was music,” Gottehrer says. “It’s a universal language and sharing that was important.”
The past decade has proved that to be prescient: In April, the RIAA reported that Latin music revenue in the United States surpassed $1 billion for the third straight year, and The Orchard is on the front lines of that through partnerships with Rimas (which itself recently bought a stake in Dale Play), Double P Records and the recent acquisition of Altafonte. The company, which maintains 50 offices on six continents, “gives you the tools to think big and not be restricted in your deal or resources,” says George Prajin, who co-founded Double P Records with Peso Pluma.
“[They] prioritize making sure that their partners can reach everyone worldwide,” says Tunde Balogun, co-founder and CEO of LVRN, which signed a distribution deal with The Orchard after exiting its joint venture with Interscope Records. “Whether it’s a genre or a region, it’s amazing to experience how they partner with entrepreneurs and artists and back them and help them grow.”
And as part of Sony, The Orchard has only strengthened its position. “A lot of the new companies springing up in the space are owned by investment vehicles or backed by finance money, and it’s not really clear what their long-term proposal is,” The Orchard president/COO Colleen Theis says. “We serve the independent community, and that’s always going to be our client base and our focus.”
With this proposition, The Orchard continues to attract new clients, from traditional partnerships to its 2022 investment in Rimas to taking stakes in Fat Possum and Mass Appeal. “Sometimes modern automation tricks us into believing these service providers are all the same, but when done right, it’s a far more complex operation than most people realize,” says Tyler Blatchley, co-founder of Black 17 Media, in which The Orchard has taken a minority stake.
“The deals we’ve done over the years have always been very strategic: a specific genre, a specific region of the world, a specific synergy or enhancing the value proposition that’s going to benefit our clients and our reach,” Navin says. “Is there a great operator or a great entrepreneur there that we want to be a part of what we’re doing? That’s where my motivation lies and that’s how we’ve done our deals historically: working with great operators.”
Brad Navin with Mass Appeal CEO Peter Bittenbender (left) and co-founder Nas.
Courtesy of The Orchard
You’ve been at The Orchard for more than 20 years. What was it like when you first got here?
We were a digital distributor before there was digital. It was pre-iTunes, let alone iPhone. I give the founders, Richard Gottehrer and Scott Cohen, a lot of credit — they had this understanding that the world was going to go online in some capacity. At the time, we were flipping over CDs and typing in label copy. That’s what digital meant for us back then.
It had to get more sophisticated to keep up with the volume and what was going to happen next. We wanted to control our own destiny, so we built around technology. And that became our great advantage because it taught us how to build a platform of services and the ability to integrate what’s next, without us needing to know what was next, necessarily. And that ethos exists today.
What did you feel The Orchard needed when you took over as CEO in 2010?
The team before me had the vision to go out all over the world — that music from everywhere matters. And now we live in a time where music from anywhere can stream everywhere. But we hadn’t yet built out our own technology. We were wildly unprofitable, we were in a terrible reverse merger from back in 2007-08, [and we were in a] total state of flux in management and what we were doing. And I came and said, “We need to build this out; here’s how I think it will transform the company.”
Sony invested in 2012 and then bought The Orchard in 2015. How did that work?
In the early days, there was some trepidation about being acquired by a major: Do they understand the independent sector? Do they understand all things digital and what’s going on? But as Richard said on the heels of the transaction, “We were bought by a f–king music company. Not by a bank, not by some people looking to liquidate.”
We had a company with the size that they are on a global level that was going to make sure that IP [intellectual property] was protected, that the value of music and how it’s going to be represented in a streaming world, or a short-form video world, would be represented in the right way, and that, ultimately, The Orchard and our clients were going to benefit. And that’s going to include whatever’s next, like [artificial intelligence]. As long as the creators are in the monetary chain and protected, I don’t know if I care what it is, necessarily.
Even in 2015, 50% of your business was outside the United States. How has that early global focus paid off?
To go into markets all over the world, where there are massively important catalogs and repertoire of varying genres, was an opportunity. As the [digital service providers] began to expand their reach and launch in those markets, we were sitting right there with all this music already available. You’ve got to be part of the local music scene and culture for the value proposition of artists and labels and the local music services. But we also need to be able to move music regionally and globally as it starts to happen. And that’s the way we function.
You said distribution used to be the unsexy part of the business. Now everyone wants to be in distribution. What changed?
The independent sector has always been about partnership, pushing the envelope on marketing, or the next format, or new ways to promote. Basically, they’ve always been willing to f–k with stuff while the big IP companies want to hold back. And as artists become empowered, they start to question: “What’s the definition of a label? What do I need going forward?” That’s a big reason why the industry’s been shifting. The definition of a label, or an artist services company, or a distribution company — it’s all in flux.
What are you focused on now?
If I think about North America, in this last year, Kelsea Ballerini on Black River Entertainment is an example of how the independent sector supports artist development. You could say the same thing in a completely different form for G*59 and $uicideboy$ and their roster. Music that I think the industry wasn’t really aware of but their fans were aware of, that’s the power of the artist being able to be out there, building audiences and driving it forward — it’s stunning. Black 17 and the whole phonk thing that’s been going on — when you work with great entrepreneurs all over the world, there’s new categories of music that we didn’t go out and look for that are happening. This is what’s going on in our sector of the business that’s so exciting.
How many different levels of service do you offer?
It’s not just the different levels. If they want us to f–k off and just put their music out, we can do that. If they want us to hold hands and really be in bed working up to that street date, we’ll do that. There’s no one size fits all at all. There can’t be.
Does that affect the deals you do, to keep them flexible?
To some degree, but not to a wide degree. The influx of outside capital into the music industry the last 10 years, and large competitors being born out of other majors or large, stand-alone distribution companies, whatever you want to call it — competition is great. We thrive off of it. Imitation is the best form of flattery. What is concerning, though, is … there’s a lot of irresponsible deals that have entered the marketplace: low margin, high capitalization. The artists deserve to be in control. They deserve to get paid.
This story appears in the June 7, 2025, issue of Billboard.
When Faye Webster is back home in Atlanta, she likes to visit Oakland Cemetery. “I always go there when I’m home from a tour and just walk around by myself,” she says.
It’s not that the cemetery is the final resting place of any of her loved ones, or that Webster enjoys checking out the tombstones of Atlanta’s rich and famous, like musician Kenny Rogers or golfer Bobby Jones, who are both buried there. She just sees it as “a peaceful, safe space” to find silence amid her increasingly chaotic life.
Last year, Webster, 27, released her fifth album, Underdressed at the Symphony, and played 77 shows to support it — a lot by anyone’s measure, but a touring itinerary that was particularly challenging for Webster. Despite her fast-growing success, the soft-spoken homebody has never loved the spotlight. “Navigating it is tough, but I had a friend give me the advice to call someone I love after the show every day to remind myself of what’s real,” she says. “So I asked my mom, ‘Hey, can I call you at 10:10 every night?’ Now we always do it.”
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She has other ways of making the road feel like home — like the added comfort of having her older brother Jack as her guitar tech; her best friend, Noor Kahn, on bass; and her bandmates of many years by her side. (Her other elder brother, Luke, handles her merchandise and graphic design.) She also has a go-to warmup routine for shows. “I always get everyone together and we recite the battle of the bands prayer from School of Rock: ‘Let’s rock, let’s rock today!’ Then we go onstage,” she says.
Originally, Webster had asked to meet at the cemetery for this interview, but with heavy rain projected in the forecast, we decide to talk over matcha and baked goods at a nearby café instead. Between bites of a guava pastry, Webster says that when she gets the rare opportunity to be at home, she spends time with friends and family or tends to her many hobbies, which include — but are not limited to — yo-yo, tennis, Pokémon, the Atlanta Braves and Animal Crossing. And, she says with a laugh, “I have so many collections of so many different things. So many dumb things.” Her house is littered with it all. “I was collecting alarm clocks for a while, then I filled a full shelf and I was like, ‘OK, there’s no more space.’ I did my yo-yo shelf, too. I have tons of vinyl. Now I need something new to collect, so I’m buying CDs,” she explains. Her latest purchase? A copy of Alison Krauss and Robert Plant’s Raising Sand from Criminal Records in Atlanta.
“I remember the first time I heard her sing when I was a kid. I thought, ‘I didn’t know people could sing like this,’ ” Webster recalls of Krauss. “She has this very soft, angelic, pristine voice. When I first heard her sing I thought, ‘I want to be her.’ ”
Faye Webster
Christian Cody
Webster self-released her debut, Run and Tell, an earnest and straightforward Americana record, in 2013 when she was just 16. Back then, her voice was still developing and didn’t yet have the bell-like clarity and melancholic whine that she is beloved for now. Soon after, Webster’s path crossed with the Atlanta hip-hop scene when she started photographing and hanging out with the young rappers signed to tastemaking indie label Awful Records. Around this time, she also grew closer to another emerging local rapper, Lil Yachty — whom she ultimately collaborated with on Underdressed single “Lego Ring.” With Awful, “It started as just a friendship for months, and then it grew to me signing there,” says Webster, who was an oddball addition to the label as its first non-rap artist.
But for Webster, it didn’t feel strange at all — she was just putting out music with help from her friends. “I loved my experience with Awful. I think, to this day, what I learned there was about creating this sense of family and community. I still hold those values today,” she says.
After releasing 2017’s Faye Webster with Awful, she moved to indie powerhouse Secretly Group and its Secretly Canadian label. There, she steadily accumulated millions of fans as she released 2019’s Atlanta Millionaires Club, 2022’s I Know I’m Funny haha and Underdressed. (Secretly also now distributes her self-titled album.)
Her career hit hyper-speed about two years ago when she scored surprise TikTok hits with “I Know You” and “Kingston” — which were about 7 and 5 years old, respectively, when they took off. Those viral moments shifted her audience away from indie-loving Pitchfork dudes and toward a younger, more female crowd; her recent shows have been marked by throngs of adoring fangirls. Ironically, Webster isn’t even on TikTok — and she barely posts on social media in general.
“Faye is amazing — and somewhat of a contradiction as an artist,” says Secretly Group vp of A&R Jon Coombs, who, with his team, signed Webster to Secretly. “She bucks industry trends by not being online that much, but she still has great social media success. She’s someone who is so impossibly cool, yet she likes traditionally uncool things like yo-yoing and gaming. All of these things combined make her a really compelling and singular artist.”
To connect her whimsical hobbies to her much more serious music career, Webster introduced custom yo-yos as merch in collaboration with Brain Dead Studios, which is run by her friend and creative director Kyle Ng. (“Individuality and being her own character adds so much to her as a musician,” he says.) She also incorporated Bob Baker Marionettes into the Ng-directed “But Not Kiss” music video; founded an annual yo-yo invitational in Berkeley, Calif.; started an active Discord server with a dedicated channel to all things Minions; and has repeatedly covered the Animal Crossing theme at her gigs.
“I look out at shows now and see people dressed up like Minions and having fun and singing and I think, ‘This is so beautiful. This is why I do it,’ ” Webster says. “I really appreciate that my music can resonate with anybody. That’s all I’ve ever wanted — for somebody to feel they can relate to my work.”
Faye Webster
Christian Cody
Her hobbies also seep into her songs, like Underdressed’s “eBay Purchase History” or Funny’s “A Dream With a Baseball Player,” which is about her lasting crush on Atlanta Braves star Ronald Acuña Jr.
“She has this ability to pack a short story into a single line,” Coombs says of her lyricism. From “The day that I met you I started dreaming” (“Kingston”) to “You make me want to cry in a good way” (“In a Good Way”) and “Are you doing the same things? I doubt it” (“Underdressed at the Symphony”), Webster’s economical songwriting often repeats phrases on a loop, each refrain cutting to a deeper emotional core. Her expertly crafted productions — Wurlitzer keys, smooth Southern-rock guitar and plenty of pedal steel — seal the deal.
For Webster, “initial reactions” and “gut feelings” are the anchors of the songwriting and recording process. “To me, I’m just like, ‘Oh, that sounded good! Let me say it again…’ However the song plays out is sometimes just the way it’s supposed to happen,” she says.
As part of that instinctive approach, Webster has historically recorded songs soon after writing them. “I just like to do things in the moment,” she says. “When writing a song, I’ve often texted my friends, my band, and tried to get everyone together while it’s still fresh.” She typically self-records her vocals at home and the rest in nearby Athens. Most recently, however, she tried recording Underdressed at famed West Texas studio Sonic Ranch.
“That was our first experience going somewhere new,” she says. “My producer [Drew Vandenberg] was like, ‘What if we go somewhere else?’ And I was like, ‘OK, if it’s you and it’s me and it’s Pistol [pedal steel player Matt Stoessel] and all the band, it shouldn’t matter where we go.’ ”
Now, as she works on her next album, Webster is taking another leap of faith: signing her first major-label deal with Columbia Records, where she’ll join a roster that includes Beyoncé, Vampire Weekend and Tyler, The Creator (whose Camp Flog Gnaw festival she performed at last year). When asked why she signed there, she pauses, taking a sip of matcha as she thinks. “It comes back to that initial gut, that initial intuition,” she finally answers. “[Columbia] feels like where I belong right now and that’s where I’m supposed to exist.”
Faye Webster
Christian Cody
Perhaps it’s thanks to the flexibility her time on indie labels offered, or the support system it allowed her to build — but so far, Webster has deftly navigated the music business without sacrificing her personality, her community or her privacy, and she doesn’t see that changing under Columbia. “I think throughout this process [of signing the new deal], I’ve been very up front and honest. I was like, ‘Don’t be surprised if I say no to a lot of things.’ I think being honest and having an understanding of each other is really important in any relationship.”
“I know it’s a buzzword, but Faye is just so relentlessly authentic,” says her manager, Look Out Kid founder and partner Nick O’Byrne. “Over the years, I’ve seen she’s not interested in doing anything that feels unnatural to her, and from talking to fans, I know that they’re smart and they see that in her, too.”
When I ask Webster if this signing is an indication that she is more comfortable in the spotlight now, she quickly replies “no” with a laugh. “I think I’m just always going to be this way.”
This story appears in the June 7, 2025, issue of Billboard.
