Author: djfrosty

Ask the members of Horsegirl — Nora Cheng, 21, Penelope Lowenstein, 20, and Gigi Reece, 22 — to describe each other using a single word, and it quickly becomes apparent that their hive mind is strong.

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“I would say that Penelope is strong-willed,” says Reece, the band’s drummer.

“I was going to say that!” Cheng, Horsegirl’s guitarist and vocalist, interjects.

“You a–hole!” Reece replies with a laugh, then adds, “I would say Nora is charming.”

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“I was going to use charming for you,” Cheng says to Reece. “Strong-willed and charming in their own special ways.”

Lowenstein shakes things up. “For Gigi, I’m going to say hilarious, and Nora, I would say, is quirky.”

Cheng: “Are you serious?”

Lowenstein: “Yep.”

Cheng: “Okay, Penelope — rude.”

Lowenstein: “Dude, quirky is sweet.”

Spend some time with the Chicago-spawned indie rockers, and you’ll conclude that all three are strong-willed, charming, quirky, wicked smart and in sync. Although Reece is Zooming in separately from Cheng and Lowenstein, who are roommates and finishing up their studies at New York University, they bounce ideas, jokes and opinions off each other with the kind of joyous ease and musicality that defines their new album, Phonetics On and On, which Matador Records will release on Feb. 14.

The album’s sound has been described as “spacious” compared to the fuzzy, saturated ’90s-style tones of their 2022 debut, Versions of Modern Performance. It is: Phonetics On and On — which was produced by Cate Le Bon and recorded at Wilco‘s headquarters and recording studio — is also lyrically and musically elemental in a way that inspires playing it on repeat. “Julie,” “2468” and “Switch Over” are among the reptile-brain pleasers — fun to sing, hard to forget — that are certain to grow Horsegirl’s fan base in the coming weeks.

Below, the trio talks about the making of Phonetics, as well as some song inspirations, and about the differences between trying to be creative in New York and in Chicago.

Where were your heads at when you were making this album?

Reece: We were thinking a lot about this period of adjusting to something new, and adjusting to something new with each other. We came from a place of being so close – in high school we were almost inseparable, and so similar as people. I feel like we’ve all gone on our own tracks, and we’ve been adjusting to those changes.

Are you all in New York?

Reece: Yeah, I live 15 minutes away from them.

Lowenstein: We were grappling with a change of place which had brought us a lot closer together, as you were saying, Gigi. I also think we had just toured on the first record for a whole summer and experienced together what being in a professional band was like. I think we were feeling really excited to reconnect with what the band is separate from all the noise — to tune everything out and find something on our own, which maybe has to do with the different sound that we ended up naturally coming across.

Cheng: Yeah, I think that a lot of the character of this album was from that break. We did a lot of growing up and having new experiences in that time just by nature of how old we were. That’s definitely part of that record.

Phonetics is the study of speech sounds. How did you arrive at that title for the album?

Lowenstein: We were really excited about using the rudiments of language, and the first things that you’re taught when you’re taught language and reading. Lyrically and instrumentally we wanted to go back to the building blocks, both in the “dah, dah, dahs” and the “do, do, dos ” of grade school and in the standard tuning of the guitar — the open E and open A chords — which were things that we were not excited about in the same way as teenagers. We thought there was something exciting about trying to make a rock record or something dancy or experimental or poppy out of those components that make up every song.

Reece: We were sitting together being like, “OK, we need a title.” We had “On and On” as something that we wanted to be part of it, and we were like, “OK, we just need a great word before that.” The reason we were drawn towards using “On and On” was because of the way those sounds went with the repetition that’s on the record. “Phonetics” immediately seemed like the perfect word.

Is the song “Julie” about an actual person?

Lowenstein: Yeah. Someone I had a crush on back in the day.

Reece: Julie is me.

Seriously?

Reece: No. I was just thinking earlier today that it would be funny if I said that.

Does Julie know the song is about her?

Lowenstein: I don’t know how into it I want to get — I wish I could tell you what you want — but Julie is me. The song is about a boy, and I feel like, yes, they know. But I’m not dying to get, I don’t know…

Granular?

Lowenstein: Yeah, totally. If you know, you know, I would say.

In terms of repetition, I also noticed that the line, “they walk in twos” appears twice. Is there any symbolism to that?

Lowenstein: It kind of happened by accident, but it was also the idea to connect two songs — one of which, “2468,” is about phonetics. Writing a rock song with repetition and basic elements. Then, the song “In Twos” is like a classic love song, with more standard lyrics. We all might have different ideas around this, but I loved the idea of connecting these two types of songs.

Reece: As we were making the record, we were thinking about the ways that different songs played off each other. The lyrics for “2468” weren’t written until we got into the studio, so it was really a moment of let’s be self-referential. It feels like it was intentional even though it was a moment that could have just passed us by.

This album is sparer compared to the last album. How much of that was your decision and how much was Cate Le Bon’s influence?

Reece: In retrospect, if I wasn’t in Horsegirl, I’d be like “Oh, my god, Horsegirl got spacious because of Cate Le Bon.” But it really was that we chose Cate Le Bon because we had so much space in the songs we were writing and demoing. We were also experimenting more with percussion than we had before. We were playing on a glockenspiel and different tambourines and different shakers. We were clearly getting at something very playful, and our songwriting had more space in it. That was intentional. In that regard, Cate made perfect sense. She didn’t have to push us very much in terms of that because we got there on the same page about it.

Cheng: She carried our vision.

Lowenstein: She gave us confidence about our vision. When the three of us are united in an idea, no one is telling us otherwise. But because we admire this woman beyond anything else we were able to make weirder decisions with a lot of confidence because she was like, this sounds really good you guys.

Cheng: Her outside perspective was very valuable. In the studio, I had this feeling that Cate can see the future. She understands how this can work out.

Reece: We were like, “Cate is Cate. She knows everything.”

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Why did you go back to Chicago to record the album when you were all here in New York?

Lowenstein: Part of it was just straight up logistics. We’re in school, and we wanted to do it during winter break. It’s nice to go home and see your family. But I also think we wanted an environment where you can tap out of everything else going on in New York. It would be crazy to imagine going to the studio and then social life resumes. We wanted to turn all of that off, and there’s nothing like going back to where the three of us are from and staying with your family. That kind of rhythm of life is really conducive to cozy, creative energy which is what we wanted. And Chicago is just — it’s really grounding for us to go home there. And we’re very lucky that Cate was down to go to Chicago in the worst month to possibly be in Chicago.

I read that the heat had to be turned off there so it wouldn’t interfere with recording?

Reece: It was so cold, but the opportunity to record at The Loft made perfect sense for us. It felt really cozy, even though we had to turn the heat off. The Wilco team seems to function like a huge family with offices. All the pieces fit together. Cate had already recorded there.

You are a truly collaborative band. That’s not easy. How do you write lyrics, for example?

Lowenstein: We are truly collaborative, which I think is rare, and I realize that the longer we’ve been in this, how rare it is. Lyrically, we work individually. The lyrics that I sing, I wrote. The lyrics Nora sings, she wrote. But the fact that we’re often singing at the same time I think speaks to [our collaborative] nature. Also, we’ve lived together so we know what each other is talking about. When we are writing lyrics, we will ask each other for advice. I think it’s sweet that both of us singing together is such a part of Horsegirl. Even though the lyrics are individual, the melodies are completely collaborative. It all comes from a place of joy, playing together which has always, I think, been the core of this band.

You’ve said in the past that you’ll return to Chicago after school is finished. Do you still feel that way?

All three: Yeah.

Why come to New York at all?

Reece: We had something so special in Chicago, but we didn’t want to remain stagnant in that. That we left at such an exciting time that came with a lot of growing pains. But I think that it made us make the record we made and brought us so much closer together. It helped us realize things about life and being a musician and being young women and being friends with each other. Maybe that would have happened if we didn’t move to New York, but I think that we wanted to come somewhere that felt bigger than Chicago because we felt very comfortable in Chicago. We needed to push ourselves.

Lowenstein: If I still lived in the same city as my family and my dear friends, I wouldn’t have been pushed to develop in the ways that I have moving away from home. I am glad that we made that choice instead of the tour-tour-tour-go-live-at-home kind of grind that you can get into when you become professional at 17. The move was important in our development as people, which impacts the music. But Chicago is a special city.

Do you feel it’s harder to be creative in New York than where you’re from?

Reece: Oh my god, yes. That’s also a huge part of why we won’t live here much longer. It is unsustainable unless you have the means for it. As indie rockers it is not our reality, at least at this point. It makes sense to come here to study and to have these experiences at this young age, but later into our 20s we want to get more into sustainable living and creative practices. Also, it’s harder to be creative in New York, just because of the social environment of it. There’s so many people, so many different cliques. In Chicago it felt like we have this scene, and it feels like an umbrella for a lot of people. Here, it feels like there’s a million different little sections. It’s hard to break in, and it feels like everybody doesn’t want to come together. Which kind of breaks my heart sometimes.

Lowenstein: It’s hard to come together here.

Reece: Yes. And then that inherently gets a little competitive. We are much more for friendly competition [as a form of] motivation.

Are you celebrities at NYU? Do your fellow students say, “That’s Horsegirl!” on campus?

Lowenstein: It doesn’t feel like we’re well known. If we are, well known, people are cool-guying us left and right. I mean, there have been moments where I had to miss class to play Coachella or something, and my teachers are like, “Wait, what?” Then my classmates are like, “Oh, I’ve heard of you,” or whatever. But beyond that, no one cares at all which is I think so healthy and important. I feel very thankful for that separation in my life. [To Cheng] Do you agree?

Cheng: Yeah, totally.

Lowenstein: Nora and I have had several classes together now at this point.

Cheng: People just think that we’re roommate friends. They don’t know about the other dimension to it. I accidentally started playing one of our songs on full blast yesterday.

Lowenstein: Last night Nora did secretly leak a Horsegirl song to the class. No one cared. It’s humbling. It’s like no one cares — and it’s important to remember that as an indie rocker. Otherwise, you start to get a big head.

Reece: When all three of us walk around, then things get a little weird. Especially if we’re at a show or something. But genuinely, these are my best friends. These are who I want to go to things with. So, it’s like — everyone else is making it weird.

Where do you see yourself in a couple of years where you’re done with school and you’re back in Chicago? Have you thought about how Horsegirl evolves?

Lowenstein: This band has been such a source of joy and creativity for us that once we graduate, we [want to] tour for real in a way that we decided not to when we chose to go to school. It’s important for us to do that and to try to live off of this, but also continue to preserve how fun it is and put our friendship first.

I also think, “Maybe one day I’ll just be a Chicago public school English teacher” — which would be a great life. Or I’ve recently been like, “Maybe I’ll go to grad school.” I don’t really know. I feel like we have a lot of different lives. Or maybe we’ll Yo La Tengo it, and be like a touring indie rock band forever.

As long as we all still feel like it’s fun. I feel like we could continue to play music together forever — just take it down a notch professionally — and I would be totally happy with that. Or maybe we’ll take it up a notch professionally. I think we’re all happy to ride it in any direction, and get another job if there needs to be another job.

Reece: Our ultimate plan is that we just want to remain friends and remain in each other’s lives in this familial way. Because there’s nobody else I have gone through or will go through what I’ve gone through with Penelope and Nora. What we have as friends is something that is really worth holding onto. If the band or anything starts to get in the way of that, then that would be the time for a change.

Are you able to support yourselves solely with your music at this point?

Cheng: It depends on the season. Penelope and I are still in school, so we are grateful to still be supported by our families.

Lowenstein: Gigi has a side job.

Reece: Oh yeah. I’m a babysitter. The most rock-and-roll babysitter in Brooklyn.

You’re on one of the most legendary indie labels of all time. Have you gotten advice from any of Matador’s veteran artists?

Reece: Advice, no. We also honestly haven’t met that many other people. But we played a Hanukkah show with Yo La Tengo, and we kicked it in the green room with them for a little bit. I felt like that was one of the most special moments we have had, because Yo La Tengo was the band we’ve all seen live the most, and it’s what we wanted to be when we started our band.

Lowenstein: Those guys knew how much their band meant to us, and they let us sit on the stairs of the stage, so we were visible from the audience. They were really thoughtful in how they treated us. They have been doing it for so long, and for the Hanukkah shows, they are playing night to night to night, and there was still such joy between the three of them.

It can be hard on tour to even introduce yourselves to the local opener who you’re running in and out. Their behavior was advice enough in terms of, I would really love to age like that as a musician. I would love to be thoughtful through and through until the very end. I hope that we can. It is challenging on tour and in this industry to maintain that. But it’s important.