stranger things
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For the better part of the last decade, Joe Keery has most of his time bouncing between worlds. In the more literal sense, he’s navigated to-and-from the Upside Down as Steve Harrington, the bad boy-turned-fan favorite, on Netflix’s Stranger Things. But outside of the hit series, he has balanced his growing prominence as an actor — recently starring in the dramedy Marmalade with Camila Morrone, and in the latest season of Fargo alongside Jon Hamm as his sheriff character’s son — with Djo, his ever-burgeoning solo music project.
For part of his 20s, Keery attended college and lived in Chicago, also cutting his teeth in the indie scene as part of psych-rock band Post Animal. Though he ultimately departed the band as Stranger Things caused too many constraints with his schedule, Keery continued to create music during his free time, ultimately leading to the birth of Djo. Debut album Twenty Twenty arrived in 2019 as an independent release through AWAL; three years later, he utilized the same route for his follow-up set, Decide.
Funnily enough, Keery, 31, is now returning to Chicago in a way — as his dreamy, synth-pop single “End of Beginning” from Decide has transformed into a viral hit in recent months. Reminiscent of new wave hits from the likes of Crowded House and INXS (Keery has noted influence from Annie Lennox’s “No More ‘I Love You’s’” as well), listeners have gravitated in particular to the lyrics in its chorus: “And when I’m back in Chicago, I feel it/ Another version of me, I was in it/ I wave goodbye to the end of beginning.”
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“Your late 20s are a wild time,” he tells Billboard. “The gist of it is being sad that I wasn’t more appreciative for something in the moment — longing for something that’s over, but also being happy that it happened.”
Since the song has gained new legs in 2024, it has reached a No. 11 high on the Billboard Hot 100 (Djo’s first career entry on the chart), while also hitting No. 1 on Hot Alternative Songs and continuing to gain momentum at alternative radio. It could be just the start of a breakout year for Keery’s musical project, as the multi-hyphenate notes he’s finishing a third album and hopes to go on a proper tour, which he still is yet to do in support of Decide, due to his acting career.
In the meantime, he’s also currently filming the final season of Stranger Things. At the time of our Sunday morning call, he’s enjoying a day off by moseying through a number of yard sales in Atlanta, one of which he says has happily yielded a vintage edition of The Settlers of Catan for just $5. Below, Keery tells Billboard about the makings of “End of Beginning,” compares successes as an actor versus successes as a musician, previews what to expect in the year ahead and more.
How did the song come together? Was the demo you posted on social media the first time that you worked on it?
No, I had had the idea. At the time [in fall 2021], I was living in Los Angeles. I had punched the chords out really quick and had an idea for a melody. That demo that I posted was me arranging and starting to figure out what the other parts might be. Then, I banged it out in the studio, at least the instrumental, pretty much in a day, with [co-producer] Adam Thein and [Slow Pulp drummer] Teddy Mathews. We all tracked the bare bones of it — guitar, bass and drums — and filled it in from there.
It was a swift process for this one. The album [2022’s Decide] is full of extra production in a lot of places, so I was just feeling like, “Let’s just make the simplest thing we could possibly make.” Verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus and be done with it. That was the goal: Try to work fast and not overcomplicate things, and that was what we did. The lyrics came a fair bit later. I really like to take the songs outside and walk around; that’s generally when I’m best at thinking up lyrics.
When did you know the song was a finished product?
You never really get to that point. I feel that, personally. There are always things that I wish we could go back and redo or improve this or improve that. But we gave ourselves until the end of March, and then at that point, we thought, “Okay, let’s just set a date for ourselves and then be done with it.”
“End of Beginning” has plenty of accolades to go around: your first Hot 100 entry, No. 1 on Hot Alternative Songs, RIAA certified gold and many more. Do those sort of accomplishments resonate with you?
It has never even been on my radar, to be honest with you, with the style of music that I’m making. It’s really cool, but I almost feel like I don’t have the perspective to really appreciate what’s going on in a way. I think that in time, it’ll come to me even more. They’re cool milestones to hit, but at the end of the day, the greatest thing is being able to go into the studio and work.
Has the song’s meaning changed for you at all over time, or is still the same as when you created it in 2021?
I guess it does mean the same thing; I feel that I’m in a different place, though. Maybe I’ve slightly come to terms more with what I was feeling. I don’t know, your late 20s are kind of a wild time. I’m not a huge believer in astrology, but I do feel like there is something to the whole Saturn return thing.
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Are there conversations happening right now behind the scenes about pushing listeners back toward the rest of Decide or even debut album, Twenty Twenty, versus trying to strike while the iron is hot with new music?
I’m much more focused on new stuff than old stuff — and finishing the new stuff. But the song has opened up possibilities for some new ears to hear the music, and I’m looking forward to getting the new stuff out, because it has been something that I’ve been working on basically since Decide came out. I’m really trying to embrace the newness that has come along with entering my 30s and now living in a different city as well. I’m excited. I feel like it’s a little bit different. It’ll be fun to see what people think.
Do you find that the location where you’re living and recording impacts the creation of the music itself?
One hundred percent, yes I do. I also think that the process of how you go about recording [impacts the music]. To me, it’s all about process over product and letting that process inform the music you’re making. I spent a lot of the last album starting making music on the computer, and I’m trying to take a different approach this time around.
Last time we talked, you told me how the sessions at The Sound Factory really inspired your affinity for in-studio collaboration. Does that still hold true?
Definitely. I have wanted my whole life to get into the studio. So, now to have a little bit more leeway under my belt, it was really cool to get into a professional environment. When you make music at home, you have all these tools, plug-ins and stuff that try to emulate real gear that exists out in the world. To be able to use some of that gear … I don’t know. Working at home is really cool because you can do it whenever, but to be able to go into a place to work feels really good. I really enjoyed that.
How does the song’s success affect your marketing strategy for this side of your career?
In the same way that we haven’t really been able to tour the music — a lot of that has been up to my schedule for shooting [Stranger Things] being all over the place — the same kind of thing with this marketing stuff. You spend all this time making the music, and you do want to market it properly. Now that the word is out a little bit more on the project, and it’s a little less of a secret between the people who know, a change in the way that the project is marketed could be cool. I’m still figuring it out, really.
You’ve talked ad nauseam about your disguises and making an effort to make Djo something of a separate entity than your acting career. When you’re having a big moment like this, is there any part of you that wants to maximize the audience by making the connection between Joe Keery and Djo abundantly clear for people?
Not sure about that. Maybe, but I’m not trying to shove it down anyone’s throat — it’s pretty easy to tell when things are like that. The fact that this all popped off naturally and happened on its own is best possible scenario for me. I’m really happy that it has happened this way. It’s cool for me because all the rules have seemed to changed a little bit.
How do you mean the rules have changed?
It just feels like the project is in a different place. Before, it was this thing that was sort of my own little secret. And now, I don’t know. It makes me think how I could treat it differently. I always am really interested when people use marketing to their advantage — that’s what I tried to last time with the disguise and the name. Maybe there’s a new way to embrace that, and I guess it’s time for me to figure out what that is.
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Is there a difference in how you feel receiving praise for something you’ve acted in versus something you’ve created as a musician?
Definitely. [Being] a performer as opposed to a writer is really the distinction to be made that I’ve found rewarding. That’s kind of the point of art, in general: To share something that people take in as their own and repurpose it for their own life. To be on the receiving end of that is really cool. Obviously, I’ve had some amazing experiences being on [Stranger Things]. The fan base is incredible. To see people wearing your character as a Halloween costume, that’s unbelievable. But [music] does scratch a different itch, and it’s really rewarding. I just feel super lucky.
Are there are any plans for a tour?
Yeah, I’ve got a fair amount of work ahead of me on the show, but the plan would be to do that sooner rather than later. And hopefully to do it right.
I would imagine it’ll be extremely cool to see all the fans in person that either found Decide immediately or as a result of this more recent wave. Looking at numbers on a page can probably only yield so much of a dopamine rush.
Yeah, it’s funny. You release something, and in this day in age — and in my situation — I kind of just released it, and then it was like, “Okay.” I didn’t really play any shows, it just came out, and that was sort of it. So, for me, it still exists as this tiny little thing. This kind of reaction to this song has been a little bit of a wake up call like, “Oh, people are actually listening to this! This exists in the world.”
To see that physically embodied at the shows would be overwhelming I’m sure, but extremely exciting. Live performance is what got me into being an artist in the first place. Just doing plays and enjoying the energy you get in a live setting. I definitely am itching to get out there. At the end of the day, it’s really about the live experience.
Are there lessons that you’ve learned from creating Decide, Twenty Twenty or anything else in the past few years that are influencing how you’re making music now?
This song has taught me the lesson of specificity being something that is important. Also, becoming less interested in something sounding perfect or polished, and more interested in trying to capture something that is a one-of-a-kind thing, whether it’s a sound or a vocal take or a drum sound. I think those are the things that stand the test of time and make things sound different. I’m chasing that more recently.
A version of this story originally appeared in the March 30, 2024, issue of Billboard.
To many people, Joe Keery is the actor known for playing Steve Harrington on the beloved Netflix show Stranger Things, or Gator Tillman on the most recent season of FX’s Fargo. What those people may not know is that he’s also the creative behind the music releases under the moniker Djo and has been releasing music for the past five years under that name through Sony-owned AWAL. He started by licensing his music through the company’s distribution service and, over the years, rose through its tiered offerings to release two projects via its AWAL Recordings label.
The most recent of those projects was Decide, Djo’s 2022 album that broke through and was well received by critics, garnering him his biggest looks from the music press to date. Now, two years later, the Decide track “End of Beginning” has become a massive hit on TikTok. The song has flown to the top of the TikTok 50 chart and landed “End of Beginning” not just a spot in the top 25 of the Hot 100 (it currently sits at a new peak of No. 23) but into the top 10 of both the Global 200 (at No. 6) and the Global Ex-U.S. charts (No. 7) as the song explodes not just Stateside but around the world.
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That marks a huge success for Djo and serves as an example of how AWAL’s tiered offerings can help an artist go from hobbyist side project to worldwide success; it also helps earn AWAL CEO Lonny Olinick the title of Billboard’s Executive of the Week. Here, Olinick talks about the success of “End of Beginning,” Djo’s rise through the AWAL ranks and how the company helped support the song’s growth as it began to take off on social media. “We are seeing many people who are discovering ‘End of Beginning’ and loving the song, and are digging deeper,” Olinick says. “And when they do, discovering that the person behind it is so talented in many different ways is just adding to their connection to the project.”
This week, Djo’s “End of Beginning” jumps into the top 10 of Billboard’s Global 200 (No. 6) and Global Ex-U.S. charts (No. 7), his first global chart entry and first top 10. What key decision did you make to help make that happen?
Projects that create meaningful impact always begin with the right A&R decision. You never lose when you partner with artists who have a real creative vision, the drive to be successful and great music to go along with it. That has been the case with Joe and this project since day one.
When it comes to the success of this record, the way we have structured AWAL really allows us to mobilize on a global basis immediately. As we started to see “End of Beginning” react, we were able to spread the story in every country, tied in with the specific way it was reacting. That meant everything from press to content creation to DSP partnerships to radio, depending on the market. Joe even went to the U.K. to present at the Brits and visit key partners, with only a few days’ notice.
Djo first started out distributing his music through AWAL, then rose up through the company’s offering tiers to now doing full recordings deals with AWAL. How did you help guide that trajectory?
We are really lucky that we work in a system that allows us to find the best way to work with music we are passionate about. Ultimately, the projects help guide this process themselves. It becomes pretty clear when an artist is raising their hand and is in the right place to be supported further. I think the traditional way of looking at it — that an artist goes from doing everything on their own to counting on someone else to do everything — isn’t relevant in today’s world. The ramp should be guided by the connection an artist has made with an audience and the potential to grow beyond that base.
In Joe’s case, that is exactly what happened. When we first started working with him, he needed distribution and marketing/content advice. If we had pushed to do more too fast, we might have suffocated the creative process and organic growth he was experiencing as an artist. By the second project, there was a more defined fan base and he was ready for our team to handle marketing and push the story globally. And then we have a moment with “End of Beginning” where we are pushing every lever available to a record label on a global basis. And most importantly with that, pushing them in a way that is focused on creating fans of Djo, not just fans of “End of Beginning.”
“End of Beginning” was originally released two years ago, then caught a new wave on TikTok earlier this year. How were you able to capitalize on that to continue to boost the song’s success?
It is critically important that we let the artist and the art dictate what is possible. In this case, we started to see such great engagement around this song and amazing content being created. Joe was excited to continue the dialogue with the audience and so our job was to spread this in a way that respected the song and artist. From there, we dig into the who, what and where of the moment. From creating new content to support the song, to pitching DSPs, radio and press, and facilitating in-person moments, our team created and executed this strategy on a global basis. And importantly, it changes in real time as the moment evolves.
But most importantly, this has to be led and driven by the artist and that is what happened with Joe. And Joe is supported by an amazing manager in Nick Stern, who has always known when to lean into moments and when to let the fans do what they do on their own.
The song’s appearance in the top 10 on the global charts speaks to the enormous success it’s having not just in the U.S., but also around the world. How have you worked to help the song grow internationally?
To start with, we don’t care where an artist is signed or even where they are based. We let the fans tell us where there is an opportunity to engage further. Since this is ingrained in our DNA, we look at every artist with a global perspective. That has meant that our team has spent as much time focusing on what we can do in Latin America and Asia as we have on what can be done in the U.S., U.K. and Europe. As it turns out, the audience for this song is everywhere and so our team has been everywhere. But it’s easy to say we want to be global. What’s hard is to create and execute a unique plan for each and every market, and that is exactly what our team has done.
Djo — Joe Keery — is also an actor that many people know from Stranger Things and Fargo. How has his success in other mediums also helped you guys with his music career?
To be honest, this is one of the things that makes this project most meaningful and that starts with Joe. Even when I was introduced to the project five years ago, I had no idea it was Joe. I listened to the music and loved it and only found out after the fact. And that has been the way Joe has wanted it to be. He puts the music first and doesn’t want people to listen to it or discover it because he is an actor. And because of that, he has built up a hugely engaged music audience first, many of whom don’t know that he is behind Djo.
It has been interesting to watch this moment evolve. We are seeing many people who are discovering “End of Beginning” and loving the song and are digging deeper. And when they do, discovering that the person behind it is so talented in many different ways is just adding to their connection to the project.
What else are you looking to do to continue to push the song, and Djo’s career overall, moving forward?
Career is the most important part of that question. We are relentlessly focused on using this moment to create new fans for Djo, vs. just fans of “End of Beginning.” We are seeing great engagement with his whole catalogue and there are so many great songs he has put out that are getting new exposure. We believe there is a lot of life left in this song, but at the end of the day, we are spending a lot of time planning out the next two years and continuing to build a story that has already been five years in the making. So many artists have moments that they aren’t ready for and you see that, quickly, it can only be about the song. In this case, we have an artist and their team who has done the work in so many different ways and is fully ready.
How has AWAL shifted along with the music business in the last few years?
We have been fortunate to be ahead of where the industry is going for a while now. We always had fair deals and a model that allowed us to partner with artists in different ways. And most importantly, we always were a music company that prioritized being in business with artists that we love and knowing how to truly develop those artists. Our track record of developing meaningful artists really is different from any other non-traditional company.
But that doesn’t mean we are in any way complacent. I find that our team is hungrier than we have ever been. And being a part of Sony has been an incredible accelerant to everything we planned to do. We have doubled down on the creative side of our business both in helping on the music side and the content side. The creative part of our jobs is what we ultimately all are here for. We have also built out the global side of our business even further. We have new teams in India, Spain, Brazil, Mexico and Nigeria with more offices opening up in the coming months. I look at the last eight years as the hard preparation work for where the market was going. It is fun to see now how uniquely positioned we are even as so many others are trying to adapt to this new music world.
Fans were both surprised and excited to see Joe Keery exiting Electric Lady Studios on the same summer day that Taylor Swift was in the building, with many wondering whether the Stranger Things actor and pop star were planning to collaborate. And on a recent appearance on The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, Keery finally […]
“New Home” is a pensive, wordless piano ballad — not the type of song that’s typically thought of as viral trend material on TikTok. But last month, Austin Farwell, who wrote and performed the track, noticed it appearing in a wave of videos. Many of these featured the actor Pedro Pascal munching peacefully on a sandwich — a snippet from the YouTube series Snack Wars — next to a block of text, something along the lines of “when you catch up with your friends and they’re all complaining about their trash men but you can’t relate cos your man is perfect and treats you like a princess every day.”
“I didn’t understand,” Farwell says. “I don’t know Pedro Pascal; I didn’t know why he was eating a sandwich. But if that’s the trend that people want to promote my music with, great.”
The Pascal videos were created using the program CapCut, which is owned by TikTok’s parent company, ByteDance. CapCut, which marketers joke is the new version of Apple’s Final Cut Pro, makes more advanced video editing techniques accessible to the masses, allowing clips like those with Pascal to be easily replicated and adjusted effectively with the click of a button. Chopping his calm chewing footage out of one video and into another is beyond many users’ technical ability. With CapCut, “you’re really not even editing, you’re choosing a template, adding something of your own, and the program is just generating this video for you,” says Abbey Fickley, a TikTok creator.
“They give you these slow motion effects, or make it go from blurry to super clear, or these glitchy cuts, which make the videos more dramatic,” Fickley continues. “That in turn makes the viewer more inclined to stay and watch it. It spices up your content — those editing features really do attract the viewer, instead of them just scrolling past it.”
Songs can be hitched to CapCut templates, so as they have proliferated on TikTok, they have become an important new area of focus for music marketers. “If you can match one of those [templates] to a sound that amplifies the video, or makes it more dynamic, then you suddenly have something that can act as a vessel for the sound to go viral,” explains Sanu Hariharan, co-head of music partnerships at Creed Media, a marketing company focused on Gen Z. “It’s been a really strong facilitator of user-generated content,” which is typically the metric that artist teams use to evaluate the success of marketing campaigns, especially on Tiktok but also on Instagram Reels and YouTube Shorts.
A major label executive who spoke on the condition of anonymity went further: “If you want to break a song on TikTok right now” — and everybody with commercial aspirations does — “you have to attach it to something from CapCut.” In recent months, these trends have helped drive listeners to “New Home,” Luke Combs’ cover of Tracy Chapman’s “Fast Car” (currently No. 32 on the Billboard Hot 100), a mash-up of Ice Spice’s “In Ha Mood” (peaked at No. 58 on the chart dated March 22), Deftones’ “Change (In the House of Flies),” Hollywood Undead’s “Everywhere I Go,” and more.
CapCut launched globally in 2020, and it topped the app charts as early as 2021. Much in the same way that new music production tools like BandLab’s SongStarter have made it simple for those with minimal experience to create credible-sounding tracks, CapCut “makes it a lot easier for your everyday user to be able to create more polished videos,” says Jen Darmafall, director of marketing at ATG Group. “You don’t have to have a particular skill set when it comes to editing — there are templates on the platform for you to go and plug in what you want, whether it’s photos or videos or text overlays or transitions. That’s helped it skyrocket.”
In October, ByteDance made it even easier to jump between TikTok and CapCut: When users encountered a video on the former made with the latter, a new button allowed them to quickly start playing with the template on their own. Partly as a result of that change, “over the last six months or so,” clips made with CapCut are “in your face every day, non-stop, no matter what side of TikTok you’re on,” Darmafall says. CapCut clips are also peppering Instagram Reels and YouTube Shorts, further amplifying ByteDance’s influence in the social media market at a time when the company is facing intense scrutiny from the U.S. government.
Jess Keifer, director of digital strategy for Sony Music Nashville, noticed a CapCut trend set to “Fast Car” — a blurry scene, often accompanied by heart-warming text, that snaps into focus just as the singer up-shifts into the chorus — gain traction during the last week of March, leading to an “explosion” of similar TikTok clips. “It’s an easy source of inspiration for fans,” she says. Fickley hopped on the Combs trend and amassed a million views within two hours. “I’ve never had a video go viral that fast,” she says.
Much of TikTok’s appeal from the start has been that anyone can go viral, no matter how many followers you have or how long you’ve been using the platform. But to replicate the dance trends that were popular in the app’s early days, for example, a user either had to be good at dancing or comfortable with embarrassment. Neither are required to adjust a CapCut video template that riffs on Stranger Things‘ Finn Wolfhard or the cartoon Tom and Jerry.
“As you hop on the trending templates, you’re gonna get more views and visibility, which is what we all want,” explains Tim Gerst, CEO of digital marketing agency Thinkswell. “And so it becomes about, how can you find ways to take your own music or the things that you’re working on and implement it into templates that are trending?”
CapCut templates are especially useful for music marketers because they often come with songs attached to them. “Some people are having these templates created specifically for their sound or for the artist’s song that they are promoting,” Darmafall says. “And some of them are scouring TikTok for CapCuts every single day, finding the most popular templates, and putting their song to it” — seeing if they can sway a trend in their direction. “It’s so easy to unlink a sound and link a new sound to it,” Darmafall notes.
A common critique of TikTok is that it elevates songs but not artists: Millions of users might get obsessed with a snippet of a track but not bother to even figure out what the singer looks like. One advantage of CapCut templates is that artists can quickly jump on a trend that might otherwise take off without them. “It’s great for artists because it saves them time,” says Cassie Petrey, founder of the digital marketing company Crowd Surf. “We try to encourage our artists to use them as it makes sense for their brand,” Keifer adds.
Hariharan points to a recent video from Rag’n’Bone Man, where the gravel-voiced balladeer posted his own version of a CapCut template that was both set to his track “Human” and also included footage of the singer spinning in place. The Rag’n’Bone Man video earned more than 12 million views, easily outstripping any of his other recent clips. “This is a way that artists themselves can get in on the action,” Hariharan says. “It allows them to kind of unlock another layer, feed themselves in, increase their overall recognizability.”
“This is just going to become more and more important for us to pay attention to,” Keifer adds.
Finn Wolfhard is getting all the tea from Winona Ryder. In a new interview published on Wednesday (Feb. 1), the actor revealed he’s been asking his Stranger Things costar everything he could possibly want to know about her famous relationship history.
“She dated Dave Grohl and MCA from Beastie Boys, and all these people,” the 20-year-old frontman of The Aubreys said in a new GQ profile. “I could literally ask her what it was like knowing Kurt Cobain, and she just tells me everything.”
Wolfhard also described Ryder as “one of the funniest texters ever” who will often leave him on read for days on end. “She’ll text you and then you’ll text her back and then she won’t text you ever again,” he added. “She’ll text you whatever, say something like, ‘Oh, have you ever seen this movie?’ And I’ll be like, ‘No, I haven’t. How are you?’ And then just, nothing.”
It should be noted that, throughout the 1990s, the Little Women actress was also engaged to Johnny Depp and later dated both Dave Pirner of Soul Asylum and Matt Damon. While linked to Pirner, she even starred in the music video for his band’s 1993 single “Without a Trace,” the follow-up to their Grammy-winning breakout track “Runaway Train.”
These days, Ryder has been with longtime love Scott Mackinlay Hahn since 2011, though the pair have not yet married. Meanwhile, last month Wolfhard — as Ziggy Katz — unveiled new solo track “Pieces of Gold” from his upcoming A24 feature film When You Finish Saving the World.
Coming out can be a strange experience for queer folks — but as Noah Schnapp can now attest, Stranger Things have happened.
In a TikTok posted Thursday (Jan. 5), the Stranger Things actor revealed that he identifies as gay. Lip-syncing along with another creator’s sound saying “You know what it never was? That serious,” Schnapp wrote a message over the video saying, “When I finally told my friends and family that I was gay after being scared in the closet for 18 years, and all they said was ‘we know.’”
In a caption for his post, the actor kept the mood light, writing “I guess I’m more similar to Will than I thought.” The comment references a scene from season 4 of Stranger Things, in which it appeared that Schnapp’s character, Will Byers, was admitting his love for his best friend, Mike Wheeler. Following fan speculation from the scene, Schnapp told Variety that there was no question about Will’s sexuality: “It’s 100% clear that he is gay and he does love Mike.”
The actor made headlines in 2022 when he revealed an online exchange he had with Doja Cat, wherein the “Woman” singer asked him to set her up with co-star Joseph Quinn. Doja would later go on to call Schnapp posting their conversation “borderline snake sh–,” before Schnapp later revealed that he had spoken with and apologized to the rapper. “Everything is all good I apologized and I still follow her and love her music,” he wrote on TikTok.
Check out Schnapp’s coming-out video below:
This year brought an endless supply of memorable music in TV and film — both through original creations and already-existent works. Disney’s Encanto led the Billboard 200 for nine nonconsecutive weeks, fueled by its Billboard Hot 100-topping hit, “We Don’t Talk About Bruno,” while films including Top Gun: Maverick and Elvis also spawned top 10-charting hits. Synch placements yielded similar massive and pop culture-defining moments — with the two most notable coming from the same show. The fourth season of Netflix’s Stranger Things, broken up into two volumes, first led to the revitalization of both Kate Bush’s 1985 classic “Running Up That Hill (A Deal With God)” and then Metallica’s 1986 single “Master of Puppets.” Following their appearances in the show, the former reached a No. 3 peak on the Hot 100 — a career-best for Bush — and the latter led to the group’s first No. 1 on Billboard‘s Hot Hard Rock Songs chart in its illustrious history.
Behind the placements is music supervisor Nora Felder, who in addition to her work on Stranger Things has previously worked on series including FX’s What We Do in the Shadows and Showtime’s Ray Donovan, and will contribute to the second season of Yellowjackets (also on Showtime). And though she tells Billboard “it’s literally impossible to keep up with the surge of music that comes in on a daily basis,” she’s found a knack for picking the perfect musical accompaniments to a show’s most pivotal moments, time and again.
Below, Felder reflects on why she thinks the synchs in season four struck such a resonant chord with viewers, what goes into landing a successful placement and more.
Nora Felder, winner of the Outstanding Music Supervision award for “Stranger Things,” attends the 2022 Creative Arts Emmys at Microsoft Theater on September 04, 2022 in Los Angeles, California.
Amy Sussman/GI
The reaction to Stranger Things‘ season four soundtrack — specifically “Running Up That Hill” and “Master of Puppets” — was massive. Looking back, how did that feel for you?
I’m not sure I have fully processed it yet. When I run into friends or associates that I don’t see on a regular basis, it seems everyone is still blown away by it because, inevitably, it’s one of the first things they want to talk about.
In the first season of Stranger Things, we had used The Clash’s song, “Should I Stay or Should I Go” across several episodes. Similar to Kate Bush’s “Running Up That Hill,” the multiple uses of both songs became, in part, a bridge for forging bonds between our key characters, while also helping save [them] from malevolent forces in precarious life-threatening moments. After season one aired, The Clash’s song experienced a bit of a resurgence, so we definitely anticipated and hoped for a similar reaction to Kate Bush’s song. However, after “Running Up That Hill” aired and the reaction to it unfolded in real time, we were staggered and humbled by this beyond-next-level response. To think that a song which was released 36 years ago could outrun some of the top artists of today really felt like a true lightning-in-a-bottle moment that was a privilege to be a part of.
With the subsequent airing of “Master of Puppets,” we were a little more prepared and anticipated that the needle would move in a big way. Metallica’s song was hugely connected to our beloved new character, Eddie. In my mind, to love Eddie was to love “Master of Puppets” as its lyrics really spoke to the core of Eddie’s being. But to now see that the metal community has a budding new audience makes me personally very happy. Metal music has been misunderstood as “angry music” for decades. I’m thrilled that people are really listening now and frankly getting into it on a deeper level.
Do you have a favorite memory from working on this season?
Off the cuff, three moments stand out in my mind. First, watching Rob Simonsen conduct The London City Orchestra in real time — adding an overlay to the original recording of “Running Up That Hill,” which fans got to hear in completion during the monumental Max moment in episode four — was simply breathtaking.
Second, sitting in a small Netflix theater stage with my Stranger Things team working on a weekend, and watching Eddie’s monumental scene with “Master of Puppets” for the first time. The few of us who were in the intimate setting of that room felt as if we each were at the greatest rock concert in the world — and had front row seats.
Third, I’ve had many people reaching out through my socials or website sending videos of festivals and concerts around the world with young and old [people] dancing and singing, or performing “Running Up That Hill” and “Master of Puppets.” One that particularly touched me was from a teacher of a 6th grade class in Florida. She sent a video of her students swaying together and singing “Running Up That Hill” and congratulating me on my Emmy win. That profoundly touched my heart. The power of a great song is endless and can be ageless.
Why did the synch placements in this season of Stranger Things resonate so strongly?
I suspect that Stranger Things‘ loyal fan base of all ages just might feel that a piece of themselves is represented in these characters, as well as the story that unfolded this season. In recent years, I believe that for many there had been an overall sense of uncertainty and fear — as if there have been invisible dangers and monsters, if you will — looming over us. With that in mind, it makes sense that the Stranger Things songs — which evocatively amplify the plights and unique internal landscapes and circumstances of our characters — would resonate around the world just as strongly as the characters and stories themselves.
Why was 2022 such a big year for music in TV and film to make an impact on the charts and in pop culture?
I have been inclined to think that following the impact of the worldwide pandemic, many people have become more accustomed to staying home more often than not. Getting lost in and binging on visual media, and listening to music has been at its heights. It could then make sense that through one’s favorite and relatable shows or movies (particularly those that are music driven), audiences would come to rely on such outlets as a source for the discovery of music.
What determines if a song will land a memorable synch placement?
When I’m reviewing songs against picture, my selections for my filmmakers emerge solely from my feeling, intuition and understanding. I know no other way to explain it. I usually test drive quite a few options, and I select the ones that my gut tells me could bring one closer to the character and to the emotions that I think my filmmakers are trying to get across in a scene or a character’s performance. A song must enhance a scene or its character, not the other way around. The more memorable a cinematic moment is, the more likely it is that a song that was used to enhance that moment will become iconically memorable as well.
What can synch placements in TV and film can add to a character’s arc or a scene that dialogue — or visual media — may not be able to otherwise?
Adding a music element behind a character or story can help elevate a message in a way that words can’t. Adding a musicality and lyrics to tip an emotion sparks one’s senses in a very unique way. That’s the power of music. That’s not to say that music, whether it be score or a needle drop, is needed for every scene or story. Some scenes are impactful on their own and adding a musical element would be distracting.
What kind of lasting impact will the success of synch placements in season four be?
We generally strive to look at where we came from in order to form a better understanding of where we are going. Through the power of the Stranger Things story, fans latched on to “Running Up That Hill” [and] “Master of Puppets” and others and allowed these songs — decades after their release — to become a source of validation and strength today. I hope the lasting impact of this historical moment in music will be that people will remain open to all genres of music, no matter if the a song came out last week or centuries ago.
A version of this story originally appeared in the Dec. 10, 2022, issue of Billboard.
David Harbour got to live his dream when he found out one of his celebrity crushes found him sexy.
The Stranger Things star stopped by Jimmy Kimmel Live! on Wednesday (Nov. 30), where he shared the story behind getting invited to a table read for the Madonna-directed 2011 film, W.E.. “It was a crazy thing. It was a real cloak and dagger type of experience,” the actor explained. “I got a call from a casting director that I knew very well saying they’re putting together a top secret movie read through, but you just have to show up at the St. Regis and go in this room and all will be revealed. And I was like, ‘This is really weird and creepy.’”
Harbour then recalls asking why they wanted him to be in the film, and found out that the director had seen him in Sam Mendes’ Revolutionary Road, where he had a sex scene. “They thought you were sexy,” he says he was told.
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“And so all weekend, I was literally thinking about Ridley Scott and Martin Scorsese,” Harbour joked. “I show up at the St. Regis and I get in the room and there’s a bunch of other New York actors there and in walks Madonna, who’s directing this movie. The first thing that flooded over me, I was like, ‘Wow, Madonna thinks I’m sexy.’”
Harbour then gushed over Madonna, noting that he had been in love with her since seeing her in the 1986 music video for “Open Your Heart.” “I was eleven years old when I saw that video and so there I am, in this boardroom of the St. Regis, and it all comes flooding back,” he said. “And I’m there with a bowler cap like, ‘I’m going to run off with you into the distance.’”
While he didn’t think the film was “terrific,” it was all worth it because Harbour ended up getting invited to Madonna’s birthday party. “She came in and she was in like this gorgeous, emerald dress and then the party started and she put on sweatpants and they just cranked Madonna music,” he said. “I danced with Madonna to Madonna music. On my headstone, that is it!”
Watch the full interview below.