Sony Music Entertainment
Sony Music revenue grew 10% year-on-year to 448.2 billion yen ($2.9 billion) last quarter, as hit records by SZA, David Gilmour and Travis Scott, coupled with higher sales from live shows and merchandise, helped boost growth in both recorded music and music publishing.
For its fiscal second quarter ended Sept. 30, Sony Music — comprising Sony Music Entertainment, Sony Music Entertainment Japan and Sony Music Publishing — reported quarterly operating income of 90 billion yen ($589 million), a 12% rise on the same period a year ago.
Adjusted operating income before depreciation and amortization (OIBDA) climbed 15% year-on-year, totaling just under 112 billion yen ($733 million), Sony Music’s parent company, Sony Group Corp., reported Friday (Nov. 8).
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The company said growth in revenue from streaming subscriptions, live events and merchandise from recorded music, as well as the impact of foreign exchange rates were among the key drivers of its positive quarterly financial results. They bring Sony Music’s half-year earnings up to 890.2 billion yen ($5.8 billion), up 16% year-on-year, with a half-year operating income of 176 billion yen ($1.1 billion).
Breaking down Sony Music’s quarterly earnings, recorded music revenue increased 14% year-on-year to 290 billion yen ($1.9 billion), with subscription and ad-supported streaming up 9% to 189 billion yen ($1.2 billion), accounting for around 65% of the firm’s recorded music earnings.
Physical revenue jumped 22% year-on-year to 25 billion yen ($164 million), while Sony’s “other” category — which includes revenue from merchandise, live performances and licensing revenue from synch, public performance and broadcast — was up 33% to 68 billion yen ($446 million).
SZA’s blockbuster album SOS, which has broken numerous chart records since it was first released in December 2022, including overtaking Aretha Franklin’s Aretha Now as the longest-running chart topper of the Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums tally, was Sony Music’s top seller of the quarter.
In second place was Gilmour’s first studio album in nine years, Luck and Strange, which debuted at No. 10 on the Billboard 200 earlier this year. Other top sellers for Sony Music in the three month period included Scott’s UTOPIA, Future & Metro Boomin’s WE DON’T TRUST YOU, Beyoncé’s COWBOY CARTER, Harry Styles’ Harry’s House and Luke Combs’ This One’s for You. The one title in the top 10 from outside this decade was Michael Jackson’s Thriller, the 1982 classic co-produced by Quincy Jones, who passed away on Sunday (Nov. 3).
On the music publishing side, Sony Music reported revenue of 92 billion yen ($604 million), up 11% year-on-year. The company said the strong performance of its publishing arm was led by strong gains in streaming income, which rose 9% to just under 53 billion yen ($347 million). Publishing’s “other” category grew by around 13% year-on-year to 38.6 billion yen ($253 million). The company disclosed that as of March 31, its publishing division either owned or administered approximately 6.24 million songs.
Visual media and platform sales, which includes revenue from animation titles, game applications and service offerings for music and visual products, fell slightly to 62 billion yen ($407 million), down 1% on the same period last year.
Sony Music said its forecast for full-year revenue was unchanged from the previous quarter with projected sales of 1.74 trillion yen (approximately $11.4 billion) and projected operating income of 330 billion yen ($2.2 billion).
Sony Music’s fiscal second quarter highlights:
▪Revenue of 448 billion yen ($2.9 billion), up 10% year-on-year▪Adjusted operating income of 112 billion yen ($733 million), up 15%▪Recorded music revenue increased 14% year-on-year to 290 billion yen ($1.9 billion)▪Music publishing revenue of 92 billion yen ($604 million), up 11%▪Visual media and platform revenue of 62 billion yen ($407 million), down 1%
The music business is getting back to basics.
In a few short years, the major labels have gone from investing in and partnering with speculative tech startups to pouring money into regionally focused music companies across Asia, Africa and Latin America. After a brief flirtation with NFTs and live-streaming businesses, anything resembling a faddish technology seems to be out of favor, judging from the deals and partnerships they’ve been making lately. Instead, the majors are targeting old-school music companies that own catalogs and develop artists — and can benefit from the majors’ global network of distribution and other services.
In 2024 alone, the three majors — Universal Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment and Warner Music Group — have acquired or invested in 11 record labels, music catalogs and service providers in small or developing markets. The flurry of deals — there were even more in 2023 and preceding years — provides the majors with more content for their ever-increasing distribution pipeline and more international artists to take to Western markets.
Take UMG’s run of acquisitions and investments in 2024: the remaining stake of European indie label group [PIAS], the remaining stake in the catalog of Thai music company RS Group, a majority stake in Nigerian record label Mavin Global and the outright acquisition of Outdustry, a multi-faceted company with an artist- and label-services arm that focuses on China, India and other high-growth emerging markets. Outdustry will be a division of Virgin Music Group, UMG’s fast-growing distribution and artist services company that includes distributor Ingrooves Music Group and Integral, formerly the artist services division of [PIAS].
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UMG, in particular, is letting the world know about its intentions. On Thursday (Oct. 31), UMG CEO Lucian Grainge dedicated much of his earnings call opening statements to the company’s efforts to expand into potentially lucrative markets that merited little attention before legal streaming services replaced digital piracy. UMG plans to make “several other investments” before the end of the year, CFO Boyd Muir said during the earnings call. In total, he said, investment spending in the second half of the year will be 350 million to 400 million euros ($380 million to $434 million).
The focus on emerging markets and artist services is a noticeable change from a few years ago. When NFT prices soared and fans were stuck at home during the pandemic, the majors invested in blockchain, virtual reality and live-streaming startups. Today, as the majors face slowing streaming growth in mature markets and the needs of an increasing number of independent artists, they’re focused on building a global network of service providers with an eye on up-and-coming markets.
The focus on emerging markets goes beyond acquisitions. In September, UMG launched a new company, Universal Music Group Greater Bay Area, that will be based in Shenzhen, making “the first time a major music company has established a division in China’s Greater Bay Area, the world’s most populous urban area,” the company said.
Another development mentioned on UMG’s earnings call was GTS, a global talent services business in Latin America. In October, GTS became a standalone company separate from UMG’s record labels. “By separating from our local labels,” Grainge explained, “GTS will now be able to also offer its services to artists outside of the UMG family.”
Grainge and Muir painted a picture of a global business determined to expand outside of the mature markets they know best and build a presence in high-growth ones. UMG’s competitors — including independent Believe — are doing the same.
WMG has also had a busy year investing in traditional music companies. In March, WMG purchased a stake in India’s Global Music Junction (India’s The Economic Times reported it was a 26% stake) and launched Warner Music South Asia in April. Last year, the company took a majority stake in Divo, an Indian digital media and music company. Earlier this week, CEO Robert Kyncl told The Economic Times that China and India are the company’s top markets for expansion. “We’re already doing great in India, but it can be a much bigger part of our story,” Kyncl told the paper.
The majors continue to buy catalogs, of course. This year, Sony Music purchased Pink Floyd’s recorded music catalog (in addition to merchandising and name and likeness rights) and UMG bought a minority stake in Chord Music Partners, which holds the rights to over 60,000 songs. Expensive song catalogs give the majors rights to assets with long, productive lives. But given the enormous size of these companies, artist catalog acquisitions barely move the revenue needle. A legendary artist’s catalog might cost $200 million but generate a steady $10 million a year — a healthy sum but a pittance to a company with annual sales exceeding $12 billion.
Rather than pour money into just catalogs, the majors are buying entire companies and building new businesses with growth potential. As Morgan Stanley analysts wrote in an investor note about UMG on Thursday (Oct. 31), earlier acquisitions have had “a negligible effect on revenue and a small impact on profit growth.” But in the future, they are likely to be a more important driver of revenue growth, and Morgan Stanley expects UMG’s financial reports will break out their impact (e.g. reported revenue vs. organic revenue).
In buying regional music companies and building artist-services business, the majors are also taking a defensive measure. Independents such as Believe have been investing in local markets for years. In 2024 alone, Believe purchased the remaining stake in Turkish record label DMC and acquired Indian label White Hill Music’s music catalog and YouTube channel. Independent distributors such as UnitedMasters, Stem, Symphonic Distribution and Create Music Group have given artists a viable alternative to major label-owned systems. The majors are simply changing along with the market.
In 2012, UMG acquired the recorded music assets of EMI Music and later sold some pieces to WMG to satisfy antitrust regulators. Opposition to greater consolidation in the U.S. and Europe means it was probably the last acquisition of its size in those regions. (WMG’s brief flirtation with buying Believe in April and May quickly drew opposition from French indie labels.) There’s less opposition to more gradual growth taking place elsewhere in the world, though. The majors are continuing to expand, but they’re taking many small steps, not single EMI-sized leaps — and they’re doing it through old-fashioned music businesses.
Now that Pink Floyd has finally managed to sell its recorded music assets, merchandising and name, image and likeness, the songwriting members of the group have another big payday still outstanding — its music publishing assets.
Sony has bought some of Pink Floyd’s music assets for about $400 million, sources confirm of the news that first appeared in the Financial Times. But sources also confirm that the band’s music publishing assets were not a part of the deal.
Nevertheless, the Pink Floyd sale was a long time coming, as the group started shopping its recorded music assets about two years ago. For a while, the assets were pulled off the block due to some infighting between group members, according to published reports.
As sources said at the time, the assets were shopped to all the big players — the other majors, BMG, Concord, Primary Wave and other private equity-backed music buyers — but Sony always had the inside hand on the deal given that it serves as the group’s distributor. This deal marks the third big music asset deal Sony has made in the last 12 months, having previously bought 50% of Michael Jackson’s music assets in a deal that valued them at $1.205 million; and Queen’s music assets for about $1.2 billion.
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Combined, that means Sony — and any financial partners that were, or may have been, involved in the deals — has spent about $2.2 billion buying music assets in the last 12 months. In July, Apollo Global Management announced that it was the lead in pulling together $700 million in commitments to provide a “capital solution” to Sony Music Group. Back in 2021, Sony partnered with another financial partner, Eldridge Industries, when buying Bruce Springsteen’s master recordings.
Sony declined to comment. Apollo and Eldridge didn’t respond to e-mails seeking comment.
Pink Floyd’s filings in Companies House — the U.K. equivalent of the SEC database — show that for the year ended June 30, 2023, the band’s revenue totaled, as first reported by Music Business Worldwide, 40.4 million pounds (which at the 2023 average of 1.244 per pound totals $50.3 million, according to exchange-rates.org). This total combines revenue from master recording, merchandising and possibly other licensing opportunities; and also combines the two Pink Floyd corporations that appear to have been set up to oversee those assets: the original band after Syd Barrett’s departure and the group that carried on after Roger Waters’ departure.
Just looking at Pink Floyd’s recorded masters catalog over the last three years in the U.S., the band has generated an annual average of 1.135 million album consumption units from the sale of 497,000 LP, CD and digital download albums and 160,000 track downloads and almost 675 million on-demand streams. While Luminate doesn’t track global album sales, Pink Floyd’s on-demand global streams averaged 2.37 billion over the last three years. Consequently, if the group owns all of its publishing, Billboard estimates that the band’s recorded masters bring in about $11 million in publishing royalties annually. If the band sells and can achieve a 20-times multiple — the going rate for superstar songwriters — it could bring in another $200 million-plus for the band’s songwriters. In general, music publishing asset trade at a higher multiple than recorded music assets, although the latter is catching up on that front.
An e-mail to the manager of one of the band members didn’t receive a reply by press time.
Sony’s acquisition of Pink Floyd’s name, image and likeness is good for merchandising. But if any opportunities arise for film, TV or a theatrical production — and there likely will be considering that since 1991 the band’s fanbase has consumed nearly 51 million album consumption units in the U.S. alone — Sony would need, as its executives well know, licenses from the Pink Floyd publishers and/or administrators, which in the U.S., according to SongView and depending on the song, consist of TRO Essex Music Group, BMG and Concord.
Boosted by double-digit growth in recorded streaming and helped by major releases from Beyoncé and Future & Metro Boomin, Sony Music said on Tuesday that total revenue grew 23% to 442 billion yen ($2.7 billion) during its fiscal first quarter, which ended June 30.
Sony’s operating income improved 17% to 86 billion yen ($534 million) and adjusted operating income before depreciation and amortization (OIBDA) jumped 30% to 108 billion yen ($671 million). Adjusted OIBDA margin improved to 24.4%.
Both of Sony’s music divisions — recorded music and publishing — posted similarly solid year-over-year gains during the period, resulting in the ninth consecutive year of growth on the recording side and 11th straight year of gains for publishing.
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Recorded music revenue increased 26% to 299 billion yen ($1.8 billion), with subscription and ad-supported streaming up 19% to 197 billion yen ($1.2 billion) and accounting for roughly 66% of that recorded segment tally. Physical revenue sunk 5.6% to 24 billion yen ($150 million), year over year, while Sony’s “other” category — lumping merchandise, live performances and licensing revenue from synch, public performance and broadcast — jumped 81% to 73 billion yen ($453 million).
Sony said some of its top sellers for the fiscal quarter were Beyoncé’s COWBOY CARTER, Future and Metro’s WE DON’T TRUST YOU, Travis Scott’s UTOPIA and SZA’s SOS. Some non-all-capped wins included Luke Combs’ Gettin’ Old, 21 Savage’s american dream and Doja Cat’s Scarlet.
Music publishing revenue rose 28.7% to 97 billion yen ($602 million). Streaming revenue climbed 36% to 56.5 billion yen ($351 million), while publishing’s “other” category grew 19.7% to 40.1 billion yen ($249 million) when compared to the year-ago period. The company disclosed that as of March 31, its publishing division either owned or administered approximately 6.24 million songs, an increase of 14% in the last two years.
Sony Music’s visual media and platform revenue declined 7.1% to 39.7 billion yen ($246 million). The segment includes mobile gaming, software for PCs and game consoles, and software development contracts.
Looking ahead, Sony Music Entertainment raised its forecast for full-year revenue by 3% to 1.7 trillion yen (approximately $11.5 billion) with a projected operating income increase of 5% from the previous forecast in May to 20 billion yen.
Sony Music warned tech companies not to mine its recordings, compositions, lyrics and more “for any purposes, including in relation to training, developing, or commercializing any [artificial intelligence] system,” in a declaration published on the company’s website on Thursday (May 16).
In addition, according to a letter obtained by Billboard, Sony Music is in the process of reaching out to hundreds of companies developing generative AI tech, as well as streaming services, to drive home this message directly.
The pointed letter notes that “unauthorized use of SMG Content in the training, development or commercialization of AI systems deprives SMG Companies and SMG Talent of control over and appropriate compensation for the uses of SMG Content, conflicts with the normal exploitation of those works, unreasonably prejudices our legitimate interests, and infringes our intellectual property and other rights.”
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GenAI models require “training” — “a computational process of deconstructing existing works for the purpose of modeling mathematically how [they] work,” as Google explained last year in comments to the U.S. Copyright Office in October. “By taking existing works apart, the algorithm develops a capacity to infer how new ones should be put together.” Through inference, these models eventually can generate credible-sounding hip-hop beats, for example.
Whether a company needs permission before undertaking the training process on copyrighted works is already the subject of a fierce debate, leading to lawsuits in several industries. In October, Universal Music Group (UMG) was among the music companies that sued AI startup Anthropic, alleging that “in the process of building and operating AI models, [the company] unlawfully copies and disseminates vast amounts of copyrighted works.”
Although these cases will likely set precedent for AI training practices in the U.S., the courts typically move at a glacial pace. In the meantime, some technology companies seem set on training their genAI tools on large troves of recordings without permission.
“Based on recent Copyright Office filings it is clear that the technology industry and speculative financial investors would like governments to believe in a very distorted view of copyright,” Dennis Kooker, Sony Music’s president of global digital business, said during the Artificial Intelligence Insight Forum in Washington, D.C. in November. “One in which music is considered fair use for training purposes and in which certain companies are permitted to appropriate the entire value produced by the creative sector without permission, and to build huge businesses based on it without paying anything to the creators concerned.”
While Kooker was adamant during his testimony that training for genAI music tools “cannot be without consent, credit and compensation to the artists and rightsholders,” he also pointed out that Sony has “roughly 200 active conversations taking place with start-ups and established players about building new products and developing new tools.”
“These discussions range from tools for creative or marketing assistance, to tools that potentially give us the ability to better protect artist content or find it when used in an unauthorized fashion, to brand new products that have never been launched before,” he continued.
Sony’s letter to genAI companies this week ended on a similar note: “We invite you to engage with us and the music industry stakeholders we represent to explore how your AI Act copyright policy may be developed in a manner that ensures our and SMG Talent’s rights are respected.”
In what could be the largest valuation ever of a musician’s music assets, Sony Music Group has closed an agreement to buy half of Michael Jackson‘s publishing and recorded masters catalog in a deal that sources say valued those music assets somewhere above $1.2 billion. Other sources have suggested it might be as much as $1.5 billion. At those valuations, Sony will pay at least $600 million for its stake of the legendary rights.
That means that the Jackson deal, which closed late last year, is at a bigger valuation than the $1.2 billion that Queen is currently seeking. And whereas the Queen valuation includes, sources say, royalties from income streams beyond the masters and publishing, including from the Freddie Mercury biopic, Bohemian Rhapsody, and theatrical productions using Queen’s music, Sony’s deal with the Michael Jackson estate does not include royalties from the Broadway play and other theatrical productions featuring Jackson’s music.
It may not, however, just be Jackson’s music that’s involved in the deal. Sources say the current deal includes non-Jackson-authored songs in his Mijac publishing catalog, which also includes the approximately 250-song Sly & the Family Stone publishing catalog as well as iconic songs written and/or performed by Jerry Lee Lewis, Jackie Wilson, Curtis Mayfield, Ray Charles, Percy Sledge and Dion.
Last February, following a story first reported by Variety that the Jackson deal was being negotiated, Billboard estimated that the iconic artist’s estate earns about $75 million annually. Those assets include ownership of master recordings, publishing for Jackson’s share of his songs, his Mijac publishing catalog and revenue from merchandise and royalties from theatrical shows featuring Jackson’s music. At the time, Billboard estimated that within the $75 million estimate, Jackson’s recording and publishing assets alone brought in $47.2 million to the estate; and that Mijac might be bringing in another $5 million to $8 million annually.
The Jackson estimate, however, did not take into account that his popularity appears to be growing as the streaming marketplace expands.
Sales and streams of Jackson’s music grew steadily from 1.07 million album equivalent units in 2020 to 1.47 million in 2023 — up 37% over those three years — according to Luminate. That outpaced the overall U.S. music market for album consumption units, which grew 22.9% during that time period. Outside the United States, Jackson is arguably even more popular. In 2023, consumption of his music grew 38.3% to 6.5 billion on-demand streams, up from 4.7 billion streams in 2021.
Next year, a Jackson biopic called Michael will be released, likely fueling even more growth to his fanbase, boosting consumption and triggering more revenue to flow to his estate and any other rights holder.
With all of the economic returns the estate is delivering, the masterminds behind it — lawyer John Branca and A&R executive John McClain — are expected to continue to stay involved as co-executors.
Sources indicate that the Sony deal also leaves in place Primary Wave’s stake, which is believed to be about 10% of Jackson’s publishing assets.
Throughout the years, Sony has paid the Jackson estate more than $2 billion in some major deals that go beyond distributing royalties for his records and songs. In 1991, the company paid $100 million to buy the first half of what became Sony/ATV; ATV Music was the catalog that Jackson bought in 1985 that contained the Beatles catalog and other popular songs. That was merged into Sony’s music publishing operation to become Sony/ATV, with Sony and Jackson each owning 50% of that company. In 2016, the company paid $750 million for the remaining 50% of Sony/ATV. It also paid $287.5 million for the Jackson estate’s share of the consortium that owned EMI Music Publishing in 2018, as well as dividends during its ownership of those assets that came out to a total of about $1.6 billion. And now, the latest deal adds another $600 million or more, driving the total amount past the $2 billion mark.
Sony has been active with acquisitions over the past year. Last year, it also acquired what has been described as a significant minority stake in the Latin label and management company Rimas Entertainment, which launched Bad Bunny‘s career. While it’s unclear what percentage Sony bought, the overall deal for the label and management was expected to have about a $300 million valuation, sources said at the time.
In May 2023, Sony also acquired the RECORDS catalog from Barry Weiss, Ron Perry and Matt Pincus, buying out the latter duo in a deal that was seeking a $100 million valuation; and then did a going forward 50/50 deal with Weiss, who retained control of the label’s recent catalog.
Reps for Sony, the Jackson estate and Primary Wave declined to comment.
Artist development isn’t dead, but it sure has changed. Two decades ago, a 20-something jazz musician named Norah Jones became a breakout star for Blue Note Records, a traditional route to stardom when people still bought CDs and social media didn’t exist. Last year’s breakout jazz artist, Laufey, cultivated a fan base on TikTok and posts sheet music for her songs online so fans can download it before the recordings come out.
To AWAL CEO Lonny Olinick, Laufey’s success is a sign of the times. The Icelandic singer built an online following by herself, but she needed a team to develop her career and handle marketing and promotion logistics. Her second AWAL album, Bewitched, topped Billboard’s Jazz Albums and Traditional Jazz Albums charts in September. “We’re seeing this real inflection point where artists are starting to, with their own teams and then between the team and AWAL, realize that there are no barriers in what can be achieved,” says Olinick, who earned an MBA from Stanford Business School and worked at consulting firm Bain & Company before joining Kobalt in 2016.
Artists such as JVKE, whose “Golden Hour” reached No. 10 on the Billboard Hot 100 in 2022, and Mercury Prize winner Little Simz have used AWAL to find success outside of the major-label system. AWAL’s services-focused approach is becoming the norm as major labels increasingly provide distribution, marketing, promotion, accounting and even financing without needing to own the rights to artists’ recordings as part of standard deals. Sony Music acquired AWAL in 2022 to complement its labels and its distribution business, The Orchard. Universal Music Group is also building its own artist services business, through a revamped Virgin Label Group.
A pingpong table that Olinick says “we have artists sign when they’re in the L.A. office.”
Maggie Shannon
Paradoxically, services-based music companies still have to do many of the same things as traditional labels — just with different deals. Only recently, Olinick says, has the 16-year-old company truly met that challenge. “Last year and the year before were probably the first years where we fully realized that vision, where I’m confident that we can do all of the things that exist in the traditional world.”
Most people in the music industry understand record labels and distributors, but services-based companies are a bit harder to get. How would you describe AWAL to the uninitiated?
The most important part of music in my mind is artist development. You try to find artists who have great music, compelling stories and a work ethic and try to help them forge their own path. And throughout history, the best artists have been artists who don’t fit in a box, and the path that they take is completely bespoke. And you can’t do it again the same way. What we’ve tried to do is build a company that’s the best in the world at doing that — at finding outlier artists who have great stories to tell and helping them grow. You need a great marketing team, a great digital marketing team, radio, synch and branding — all the things that exist in the traditional world. What we’ve tried to do is build a company that can do all those things, just with a different business model to keep the economics in favor of the artist.
You don’t have an everyone’s-welcome model — you choose who you want to work with. How do you do that?
We’re very opinionated about music. It’s really important as a company to have that creative, A&R-driven aesthetic. There’s three dimensions to it in my mind. There’s the music: Does the music speak to people? Two, is there a story to be told, and does this person want to communicate something beyond just the music that’s interesting and compelling? And three, does the person have a work ethic? Being successful in music requires relentlessly hard work on all sides.
“I love art of all types and take a lot of inspiration from culture,” Olinick says. “These books cover amazing music, art and sneaker culture.”
Maggie Shannon
Tell me about the staff on the creative side, as well as the administrative one.
We do everything, but the majority of our staff is focused on A&R, marketing and creative. That’s where we think we can be different and where we can help our artists tell stories. There’s 180 people across 14 offices. It’s run as a global company. If we find a record in Sweden, the U.S. company can jump on it, or the U.K. company or the Canadian one. Everyone is working collaboratively to try to do the best they can for the artist. And in each of those offices, we have traditional marketing, digital marketing, synch, brand partnerships, publicity — we basically do everything that an artist needs largely in-house. And then to the extent that we feel like we need something beyond what our 180 people can do, we will partner.
What’s the financial commitment when you work with an artist? Are you always writing a check?
It depends. Some of the deals are unfunded. We’re fortunate to be a part of Sony, so if it makes sense and we believe in the opportunity, there’s no check we couldn’t write if it made sense. But each deal is bespoke for the artist. We try to put as much money into marketing as we possibly can because we believe that that’s the thing we can do that hopefully makes a difference.
This “thing with eyes is something my son made for me,” Olinick says. The feeling of being watched “keeps me motivated every day. The small trophy is from our office awards for ‘Person on the Phone the Most.’ I take great pride in that.”
Maggie Shannon
Sony acquired AWAL in 2022 and it already owned The Orchard. How do the two work together?
The whole Sony ecosystem makes a ton of sense, and AWAL and The Orchard are great examples of that. The Orchard is best in class at supporting record companies. And if you look at the scale at which they operate, and the quality of what they do on behalf of labels, there’s just no one who’s doing that kind of work. It’s an incredible team led by Brad [Navin] and Colleen [Theis], who are just incredible executives. I look at us in a very similar way: the best at doing artist development in this nontraditional way. Being able to work together on tools and distribution is a great advantage for our clients and for The Orchard’s clients.
Some artists have gone from majors or big indies to AWAL, including Nick Cave, Cold War Kids and Jungle. Have some artists gone from AWAL to majors?
Our job is to develop the best artists in the world. And I think if we do that — especially if we do that at any scale — there’s going to be certain artists where the deal offered by a major is really compelling. Early on, we saw a lot more artists who would migrate and go do another deal. We developed Steve Lacy, Omar Apollo and Kim Petras — artists who have gone on and had real success at majors.
“The Marshall cabinet is actually a refrigerator,” Olinick says. “My office tends to have items from our artists, but the exception is that Beatles collectible — I don’t have anything to do with The Beatles, but it reminds me to aspire to work with the greatest artists.”
Maggie Shannon
You’ve had some time to integrate into Sony. How has being part of this larger company changed your life as a CEO?
Anytime you go into these things you have aspirations for what it will be. At the same time, [merger and acquisition] deals tend not to be what you expected them to be. People think that I’m sometimes saying the company line, and it couldn’t be further from the truth: The experience has been phenomenal. That comes down to two dimensions. Rob [Stringer, Sony Music CEO] is just an incredible music executive who comes from an A&R perspective. Being a part of a company where he sets the tone that music is at the center of everything you do has made us a better company. And because of that, it has basically been, “Here’s all these resources that Sony has that you can take advantage of, but continue to run the company the way you have because we’ve had tons of success doing it.” It has all been additive.We have more resources to invest. We have better technology. We can partner with Sony in certain markets where it makes sense. We’re out there building local businesses in Spain, Brazil, Nigeria and India. The Sony team has been incredibly supportive. Everyone sees that this is a meaningful part of the business and because AWAL is so music-centered and so is Sony, there’s just a lot of mutual respect and collaboration. It has been nothing short of reenergizing in an already energized business.
The music business is undergoing some contraction with layoffs and consolidation. Do you foresee laying people off, or are you hiring?
We’re actively hiring. We hired a head of hip-hop and R&B last year in Norva Denton. We hired a senior vp of A&R in Chris [Foitel]. We hired Cami [Operé], who’s our publicist. We just hired a new CFO [Sumit Chatterjee]. We’ve hired in Spain, Brazil and Nigeria. We bought a company in India [digital distribution firm OKListen]. So, we’re actively in the market because the business continues to grow. We had our best year last year; we’ll have our best year this year.
Lyor Cohen’s first encounter with Google’s generative artificial intelligence left him gobsmacked. “Demis [Hassabis, CEO of Google Deepmind] and his team presented a research project around genAI and music and my head came off of my shoulders,” Cohen, global head of music for Google and YouTube, told Billboard in November. “I walked around London for two days excited about the possibilities, thinking about all the issues and recognizing that genAI in music is here — it’s not around the corner.”
While some of the major labels are touting YouTube as an important partner in the evolving world of music and AI, not everyone in the music industry has been as enthusiastic about these new efforts. That’s because Google trained its model on a large set of music — including copyrighted major-label recordings — and then went to show it to rights holders, rather than asking permission first, according to four sources with knowledge of the search giant’s push into generative AI and music. That could mean artists “opting out” of such AI training — a key condition for many rights holders — is not an option.
YouTube did make sure to sign one-off licenses with some parties before rolling out a beta version of its new genAI “experiment” in November. Dream Track, the only AI product it has released publicly so far, allows select YouTube creators to soundtrack clips on Shorts with pieces of music, based on text prompts, that can include replicas of famous artists’ voices. (A handful of major-label acts participated, including Demi Lovato and Charli XCX.) “Our superpower was our deep collaboration with the music industry,” Cohen said at the time. But negotiations that many in the business see as precedent-setting for broader, labelwide licensing deals have dragged on for months.
Negotiating with a company as massive as YouTube was made harder because it had already taken what it wanted, according to multiple sources familiar with the company’s label talks. Meanwhile, other AI companies continue to move ahead with their own music products, adding pressure on YouTube to keep progressing its technology.
In a statement, a YouTube representative said, “We remain committed to working collaboratively with our partners across the music industry to develop AI responsibly and in a way that rewards participants with long-term opportunities for monetization, controls and attribution for potential genAI tools and content down the road,” declining to get specific about licenses.
GenAI models require training before they can start generating properly. “AI training is a computational process of deconstructing existing works for the purpose of modeling mathematically how [they] work,” Google explained in comments to the U.S. Copyright Office in October. “By taking existing works apart, the algorithm develops a capacity to infer how new ones should be put together.”
Whether a company needs permission before undertaking this process on copyrighted works is already the subject of several lawsuits, including Getty Images v. Stability AI and the Authors Guild v. OpenAI. In October, Universal Music Group (UMG) was among the companies that sued AI startup Anthropic, alleging that “in the process of building and operating AI models, [the company] unlawfully copies and disseminates vast amounts of copyrighted works.”
As these cases proceed, they are expected to set precedent for AI training — but that could take years. In the meantime, many technology companies seem set on adhering to the Silicon Valley rallying call of “move fast and break things.”
While rights holders decry what they call copyright infringement, tech companies argue their activities fall under “fair use” — the U.S. legal doctrine that allows for the unlicensed use of copyrighted works in certain situations. News reporting and criticism are the most common examples, but recording a TV show to watch later, parody and other uses are also covered.
“A diverse array of cases supports the proposition that copying of a copyrighted work as an intermediate step to create a noninfringing output can constitute fair use,” Anthropic wrote in its own comments to the U.S. Copyright Office. “Innovation in AI fundamentally depends on the ability of [large language models] to learn in the computational sense from the widest possible variety of publicly available material,” Google said in its comments.
“When you think of generative AI, you mostly think of the companies taking that very modern approach — Google, OpenAI — with state-of-the-art models that need a lot of data,” says Ed Newton-Rex, who resigned as Stability AI’s vp of audio in November because the company was training on copyrighted works. “In that community, where you need a huge amount of data, you don’t see many people talking about the concerns of rights holders.”
When Dennis Kooker, president of global digital business and U.S. sales for Sony Music Entertainment, spoke at a Senate forum on AI in November, he rejected the fair use argument. “If a generative AI model is trained on music for the purpose of creating new musical works that compete in the music market, then the training is not a fair use,” Kooker said. “Training in that case, cannot be without consent, credit and compensation to the artists and rights holders.”
UMG and other music companies took a similar stance in their lawsuit against Anthropic, warning that AI firms should not be “excused from complying with copyright law” simply because they claim they’ll “facilitate immense value to society.”
“Undisputedly, Anthropic will be a more valuable company if it can avoid paying for the content on which it admittedly relies,” UMG wrote at the time. “But that should hardly compel the court to provide it a get-out-of-jail-free card for its wholesale theft of copyrighted content.”
In this climate, bringing the major labels on board as Google and YouTube did last year with Dream Track — after training the model, but before releasing it — may well be a step forward from the music industry’s perspective. At least it’s better than nothing: Google infamously started scanning massive numbers of books in 2004 without asking permission from copyright holders to create what is now known as Google Books. The Authors Guild sued, accusing Google of violating copyright, but the suit was eventually dismissed — almost a decade later in 2013.
While AI-related bills supported by the music business have already been proposed in Congress, for now the two sides are shouting past each other. Newton-Rex summarized the different mindsets succinctly: “What we in the AI world think of as ‘training data’ is what the rest of the world has thought of for a long time as creative output.”
Additional reporting by Bill Donahue.
Ahead of the United Nations Climate Change Conference starting tomorrow (Nov. 3) in Dubai, Sony Music, Universal Music Group and Warner Music Group have announced the creation of the Music Industry Climate Collective (MICC). This alliance will work to address the challenges and changes in the global climate and how they relate to the music industry.
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The MICC’s first initiative will be offering comprehensive sectoral guidance for measuring scope 3 greenhouse gas emissions, defined as “emissions that are not produced by the company itself and are not the result of activities from assets owned or controlled by them, but by those that it’s indirectly responsible for up and down its value chain.”
For the music sector, the vast majority of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions are in scope 3.
MICC’s members have already worked with scientific experts on their first draft of the sectoral guidance, which will be made available to industry participants. MICC’s members have also initiated calls for wider industry input through an advisory council composed of independent record labels, value chain partners, and climate experts. The guidance will be further developed through an inclusive, multi-stakeholder process.
The American Association of Independent Music, a non-profit trade organization representing more than 600 independently owned U.S. record labels, will serve as an advisor to the MICC. A2IM will assist in myriad ways, initially with recommendations on how best to include small-to-medium-sized businesses in this initiative.
“This initiative demonstrates what can be achieved when music leaders come together with a shared vision and commitment to sustainability,” the MICC’s founding members say in a group statement. “We are proud to collaborate to amplify environmental stewardship and offer practical recommendations and strategies tailored to the unique needs of music companies, regardless of their size or scale of operations.
“Together, we must continue to make progress on this vital priority,” the statement continues. “We welcome all to join us in reducing our industry’s carbon footprint by working together to ensure an environmentally responsible future for music and our planet.”
2023 is on track to be the hottest year on record, with many concerts and festivals affected by climate change since the start of the year.
Sony Music Entertainment’s revenue rose 16% to 358.2 billion yen ($2.5 billion) last quarter, as hit records by SZA, Miley Cyrus and Harry Styles helped boost growth in both recorded music and music publishing.
For the fiscal quarter ended June 30, SME reported quarterly operating income of 73 billion yen ($510 million), a 20% rise on the same period a year ago. Adjusted earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization were up 11% year-on-year, totaling 83 billion yen ($580 million).
The company said growth in streaming subscription revenues and the impact of foreign exchange rates were among the key drivers of its positive quarterly financial results. SME said it also benefitted from a 6 billion yen ($41 million) operating income boost from the completed acquisition of an unnamed company.
SZA’s SOS, Miley Cyrus’ Endless Summer Vacation and Harry Styles’ Harry’s House were among the company’s top performing titles of the quarter. SME also named Luke Combs’ Gettin’ Old, the 10th anniversary reissue of Daft Punk’s Random Access Memories, Foo Fighters’ But Here We Are and Beyonce’s Renaissance among its 10 best-selling releases in the first three months of the current financial year.
On the back of those sales, Sony Music’s recorded music division’s revenues rose 19% to 237.7 billion yen ($1.6 billion), with streaming revenue growing by almost 19% to 164.8 billion yen ($1.1 billion), accounting for 69% of total recorded music revenue.
Physical sales fell 2.4% year-on-year to 24.9 billion yen ($174 million) and accounted for just over 10% of the quarter’s recorded music revenue. Download sales rose slightly to 7.7 billion yen ($53 million), up around 2% compared to the same quarter a year prior.
License revenue, including public performance, broadcast and sync sales, coupled with merchandising and live performance income, brought in an additional 40.1 billion yen ($280 million) to Sony’s recorded music division.
On the publishing side, revenues increased 19% year-on-year to 75.1 billion yen ($524 million). Within publishing, streaming sales rose 24% to 41.6 billion yen ($290 million), while other publishing income totaled 33.5 billion yen ($234 million).
Revenues from the company’s residual media and platform business, which represents less than 10% of SME’s operating income and includes animation titles and game applications, was more-or-less flat as the same period last year at 42.8 billion yen ($299 million). That total was, however, down 16% when compared to the previous quarter’s 53.4 billion yen ($372 million).
Looking ahead, Sony Music Entertainment raised its forecast for full-year revenue by 6% to 1.49 trillion yen (approximately $10 billion) with a projected operating income of 280 billion yen (approximately $1.9 billion).