Publishing
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BMI’s October 2022 switch to operating as a for-profit company didn’t cause a big reaction in the music business until a July 2023 Reuters article about the company being put up for sale revealed that it had generated $147 million in earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. Then the response was significant – and mostly negative. The fear was that profit would essentially come at the expense of royalty payouts.
Even so, BMI executives and other music business sources familiar with the way private equity funds think about business suggest that songwriters and executives should wait to see how the performance rights organization’s vision, backed by the right strategic partner — such as New Mountain Capital, with which BMI is negotiating — could help them.
BMI has said it is switching models and seeking a buyer in order to respond to a changing market. “We need to continue to invest in our business and explore new avenues for revenue generation,” CEO Mike O’Neill said in an Aug. 18 letter to creators groups that was shared with Billboard, “so we can continue to expand our distribution sources.”
To do that, while delivering the kind of growth a buyer will presumably want, BMI plans to explore new businesses to build a company that can operate at scale, and across national borders, more efficiently than it now does. The idea, according to sources inside and familiar with BMI, is to create a new interdependent royalty-collection ecosystem that will benefit BMI and its potential new owner, as well as its affiliates.
BMI is looking for “a partner who can help us take advantage of new opportunities and provide a new level of investment and technological expertise,” according to a Sept. 5 letter from O’Neill to creators groups published on BMI’s website. New Mountain Capital, which is in an exclusive period to negotiate a deal with the performance rights organization, could be such a partner, executives familiar with the private equity sector suggest, since the firm has a track record of investing in companies to help them achieve significant growth. Since its 1995 launch, New Mountain — which now oversees more than $35 billion in assets and funds — has acquired or founded more than 60 companies, without any going into bankruptcy and without missing an interest payment, according to the company.
In particular, sources familiar with New Mountain Capital point to its investment in Blue Yonder, a software company the private equity firm acquired for $565 million in 2010 and sold to Panasonic in 2021 for an enterprise value of $8.5 billion. The private equity firm, “through continued investment and improvement” helped grow it from a “somewhat sleepy niche company to being the 14th largest software company in the nation,” New Mountain Capital’s CEO Steve Klinsky wrote in the May-June 2022 issue of Harvard Business Review. “We offer the capabilities and access to capital that a large corporate parent would, without forcing companies to become part of a conglomerate culture. At the same time, we bring a fresh, entrepreneurial vision to strategy, talent, R&D, technology, and corporate alliances.”
Still, BMI has not specifically addressed many of the concerns raised by its switch to a for-profit model, which is why songwriters and publishers remain nervous. In fact, on Sept. 18 a letter signed by dozens of lawyers called on BMI to engage in open and honest conversations with affiliates, saying that the PRO owes them the responsibility to respond with “specificity and transparency.”
“I get it that some writers may have legitimate worries because in a vacuum there is not a clear picture of what such a deal could be and how it could be a positive for BMI,” says a veteran music business executive. “But a lot of people with their own interest have been spreading very negative spins with shrill voices that what BMI is doing will be bad for publishers and songwriters.”
In the case of New Mountain Capital, the executive says, they “are nice, smart people” that help businesses add new processes to help them grow substantially and become even more profitable. New Mountain Capital has been studying the music industry for a few years and looked at some substantial deals, sources say, but so far has passed on them until now.
“There is so much negativity out there that doesn’t give this deal the benefit of the doubt,” says another executive. “New Mountain Capital are not corporate raiders; they are intelligent and love the business and want to grow the revenue base so that publishers and writers will be making more money and still make a profit for BMI.”
That’s exactly the kind of approach BMI is looking for, according to executives familiar with its strategy. In its first year as a for-profit business, for example, BMI announced a partnership with the United Arab Emirates company Music Nation to try to establish a public performance licensing and royalty infrastructure there. BMI has also undertaken an “extensive customer service initiative” to enhance the service it provides to affiliates, with plans for an improved online service portal to follow.
The company has said that its move to a for-profit model made these investments possible. But one music publishing executive, who requested anonymity, wonders “why is it easier to invest in systems upgrades as a for-profit entity rather than as a not-for-profit organization?” One answer: The level of investment would impact distributions to affiliates under the previous not-for-profit system.
Publishing executives also believe that growing outside the U.S. will become a priority for BMI. Most of the growth for royalty collections is now coming from the growth of streaming services, and most of that will be international. Over the past decade, some of the European collective management organizations teamed much with publishers to license repertoire for online purposes across Europe, as European law allows. Such a model could also work in other territories, such as Latin America, Asia, or even the Middle East.
Given the opportunity for BMI outside the U.S., another executive wonders if it could be the first organization to try to rollout a global model, with a global membership. And if so, whether that would re-ignite competition to sign writers around the world.
Meanwhile, some executives speculate about whether New Mountain might be frightened off by the antitrust consent decree under which BMI operates, but “they understand deeply what that means,” says a source familiar with the fund, “and that it is baked into the business.”
Private equity is known for growing profits, not restraining them, but sources familiar with BMI’s thinking say that potential suitors need to understand that the company will prioritize payouts. In fact, a potential deal would not involve an expectation of “insane margins,” says one music industry executive who has worked with private equity. If a sale takes place, said O’Neill in an Aug 19 letter, BMI “would ensure that any partner embraces our mission of prioritizing the interests of songwriters, including their financial success.”
For-profit, for whom?
It’s “easy to assume that if we kept doing business the way we always had, distributions would continue to grow,” O’Neill wrote in his Sept. 5 letter posted on the company’s website. “That is a dangerous assumption to make, because in an evolving industry like ours, you run the risk of settling for a larger slice of a shrinking pie. Our goal is to grow that pie to your benefit.”
So far, in the three quarterly distributions since BMI announced its shift to a for-profit model, combined payouts were 9% greater than the same periods of the previous year. That’s almost as good as the 10.2% increase to $1.471 billion that BMI distributed in the fiscal year ended June 30, 2022, when overall revenue grew 15.6% to $1.573 billion, when it was still operating as a non-profit. (BMI is not releasing how much distributions increased for the full year ended June 30, 2023, and it will no longer release any company-wide revenue results, sources say. Instead, it will provide more information to songwriters and publishers to help them measure BMI’s payments in comparison to the past, and in some cases, if songwriters so request, to other PROs.)
Some songwriters and executives argue that, if BMI is sold, affiliates deserve some of the revenue from that sale. But as one industry executive familiar with private equity points out, it’s actually surprising that BMI’s owners – radio and television stations – didn’t sell it a long time ago.
“For over 80 years, you have had owners — all for-profit companies with their own businesses — and yet they didn’t make any profit on BMI,” that executive says. “And I guess it would be unseemly for them to pull dividends out at the same time they are paying licensing fees.” At the same time, he adds, those owners had to watch SESAC and GMR come along and build very profitable businesses.
SESAC, which is considerably smaller than BMI, was sold to the private equity firm Blackstone for about $1 billion in 2017. Ironically, at the end of 2018, one of Blackstone’s investment funds acquired a passive minority equity stake in New Mountain Capital, a fact that U.S. regulators could look at, if New Mountain Capital moves forward with its BMI acquisition.
“The fact is that the broadcasters own BMI; and they are entitled to sell it,” the executive says. “I understand that the music industry likes the status quo, but if you start with the premise that the owners will sell, then you would want them to sell it to someone who is decent and understands the industry. It’s not smart to push [New Mountain Capital] away with a big outcry, because you don’t know who will come along next.”
There is also the potential for BMI to grow into a more modern company in a way that benefits the entire industry, the source says. “Take a year or two and see how things roll forward and how things shake out. If [BMI] songwriters are happy, then they can stay; and if not, then they can look to make a move.”
Concord has acquired the publishing catalog of Mojo Music & Media, a catalog that includes over 30,000 works. Founded in 2018 by Mark Fried, Peter Shane and Alan Wallis, Mojo Music & Media’s holdings include portions of songs recorded by REO Speedwagon, KISS, Cheap Trick, Duran Duran, Earth Wind & Fire and more.
The acquisition comes just after Concord announced that it made a recommended bid to buy Round Hill Music Royalty Fund Limited.
Since its founding, Mojo Music & Media has grown quickly, competing with more established competitors for evergreen catalogs. In 2019, the company partnered with Crestline Investors, Inc. to fund further acquisitions. Soon, it had bought more than 40 catalogs.
Catalogs in the Mojo Music & Media portfolio include: HoriPro Entertainment (REO Speedwagon, Kiss, Jerry Reed), Emerald Forest (Sophie B. Hawkins, Brownstone, Lita Ford), Rick Nielson (Cheap Trick), Warren Cuccurullo (Missing Persons, Duran Duran), Bob Morrison (“Lookin’ For Love”), Sharon Vaughn (“My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys”), Larry Gatlin (“All The Gold In California”), D.L. Byron (“Shadows Of The Night”), Jeffrey Cohen (“Freeway Of Love”), Earth Wind & Fire’s Al McKay (“September,” “Best Of My Love”), English Beat and General Public’s Dave Wakeling (“Save It For Later,” “Tenderness”), Jordan Reynolds (writer of Dan + Shay hits “Tequila,” “Speechless,” and “10,000 Hours”), Jacknife Lee (Taylor Swift, Snow Patrol, and Kodaline) and the estates of Johnny Burke (“Misty”), Bernie Wayne (“Blue Velvet”) and Johnny Russell (“Act Naturally”).
My nearly 30-year adventure in music publishing has always been about surrounding myself with the greatest songwriters, getting them paid, keeping them inspired, and elevating the power of their songs in pop culture so they vibrate forever,” says Mark Fried, Mojo’s Co-Founder and CEO. “Concord has been on the same mission since its founding, and my partners and I feel like we’ve come full circle working with [Concord’s Chief Business Development Officer] Steve Salm, whom I’ve known and respected since his first days in the business, and other old friends at Concord to bring our catalogs together. I feel a deep responsibility to the artists, songs, and legacies we represent and I’m excited to see them continue to prosper in the hands of such capable and passionate caretakers.”
“We are delighted to have supported Mojo through their successful ramp up and aggregation of their catalogue. All aspects of our involvement with Mark and team have been outstanding. It is a great example of our desire to use our capital to build valuable asset platforms,” said Michael Guy, chief investment iofficer of Crestline Europe.
Steve Salm, Concord’s chief business development officer, remarked, “Mark Fried is a true original who’s repeatedly seen the value in songs and catalogs well before market trends, always putting songwriters first. Over the last several decades, he’s built two premier independent catalogs with Mojo here and Spirit Music prior, winning the trust of some of the most legendary songwriters and artists. With Mojo, Mark, Pete, and Alan have assembled a stellar collection of incredible hits spanning genres, eras, and territories. The Mojo catalog is a perfect fit with Concord’s catalogs, and we’re honored by the trust they’ve now put in us.”
Concord was represented by Ritholz Levy Fields LLP (Adam Ritholz, Cody Brown, John Brill, Gillian Sloane, Amanda Inglesh, and Jason Barth), and by DLA Piper, Rob Sherman. Shot Tower Capital acted as exclusive financial advisor to Mojo. Mojo was represented by Reed Smith LLP as legal counsel.
In late August, Billboard reported that BMI is in serious discussions to sell itself to New Mountain Capital for $1.7 billion, less than a year after the organization announced it was switching for a for-profit model. No deal has been signed, but talks are serious enough that the two sides have entered into exclusive negotiations, and the change in the way BMI operates — especially after the industry became aware of how much profit it has generated in its most recent fiscal year — has triggered an avalanche of questions from songwriters and music publishers. The most important: Will BMI’s future profits come at the expense of royalty payouts to its more than a million affiliated songwriters and publishers.
BMI had $147 million in earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization in its most recent — but as yet unannounced — fiscal results, according to Reuters. The question is where this money came from.
“Where does profit come from for a performance rights organization?” asks one veteran music publishing executive. “It can come from only two buckets — the cost bucket or the royalty distribution bucket.” And that executive, like several others, believes that BMI “definitely didn’t cut $147 million in expenses.”
Although BMI made news in October 2022 when it announced it would begin to operate on a for-profit basis, all four U.S. performance rights organizations are actually set-up as for-profit corporations – BMI and ASCAP both file form 1120 with the I.R.S., as SESAC and GMR likely do as well. For decades, though, the first two have operated as not-for-profit companies, which likely means that since they pay out all the royalties they collect, minus expenses, they have no profit on which to pay tax. ASCAP’s Articles of Association states that “all royalties and license fees collected by the society shall be…distributed among its members,” except for expenses and contributions to a reserve fund.
BMI has always operated the same way, even though it has always been a private company owned by radio and television companies. In July 2022, though, rumors started spreading about BMI’s plans to change its operations, and the company hired Goldman Sachs to shop the company, preferably to a company which can fill the role of a strategic, but non-industry, partner. That effort didn’t result in a sale, either because the not-for-profit model BMI operated under at the time left it without any profit to show potential buyers, according to some sources; or, as other sources say, because BMI didn’t find a partner at that time that shared its vision of prioritizing the interests of songwriters.
Last October, when BMI announced it would switch to operating on a for-profit basis, the initial reaction in the industry was muted. This summer, however, when Reuters reported that BMI was once again up for sale — and that it had generated $147 million in earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization — creators expressed alarm, especially at the idea that those earnings might have been taken out of their royalties.
On Aug. 17, five creators groups sent an open letter to BMI CEO Mike O’Neill that asked 17 questions about BMI’s new business model, including whether songwriters and publishers would receive any of the proceeds from a potential sale, how the organization generated so much profit, and how it could continue to do so without reducing payouts to songwriters and publishers, the last of which is an especially significant worry, according to sources. The letter came from the Black Music Action Coalition, the Music Artists Coalition, the Songwriters of North America, SAG-AFTRA, and the Artists Rights Alliance.
So far, the only music publisher to comment on the changes at BMI is Universal Music Publishing Group chairman and CEO Jody Gerson, who said in a statement that, “We will only support changes that increase value for songwriters and will not stand for any that result in our songwriters being paid less than what they deserve.” Other publishers would not comment on the record but expressed concerns.
On Aug. 18, O’Neill responded in a letter to the creators groups and acknowledged that they raised “some important questions” about BMI’s evolution. (His letter was shared with Billboard, and published in full along with a story on it.) He said that the change would allow BMI to invest in its business in order to grow, plus increase payouts. Most important, O’Neill wrote, in the event of a sale, BMI “would ensure that any partner embraces our mission of prioritizing the interests of songwriters, including their financial success. This is especially important as we navigate this rapidly changing industry together.”
(BMI executives declined to be interviewed for this article but they responded to questions with emailed statements, issues other statements for two other stories on the issue, and provided Billboard with the letters O’Neill wrote in response to the creators groups.)
“Relying on the past never sustained a business for the future,” BMI said in an Aug. 29 statement to Billboard. “Our goal is to stay ahead of the changing industry and invest in our business to grow the value of our affiliates’ music.”
O’Neill’s initial letter didn’t satisfy the groups behind the letter, which followed up with another letter to BMI on Aug. 25, which was also obtained by Billboard. “While we appreciated you responding to our letter,” it read, “all of our questions went unanswered.” So far, sources involved with the music creators groups argue. BMI has still not responded to most of the questions in the original letter.
SLICING A FOR-PROFIT PIE
The other big question hanging over a potential sale of BMI is what it would mean for its competition against and its relationships with the other collective management organizations that it competes with but also collects money for and in turn receives royalties from under reciprocal agreements. Because of BMI’s change in governance, it has gone from being a member of CISAC, the international organization of CMOs, to a client, so it is no longer bound by the organization’s transparency rules but will still have access to its data systems.
ASCAP, BMI’s main competitor in the U.S. for more than eight decades, had a pointed take, which it shared in a social media campaign clearly aimed at BMI, though it did not mention the company by name. Its tweets included “We pay songwriters, not shareholders;” “growth without greed;” “Not for profit since 1914 and still growing;” and “There is no I in ASCAP.” Asked to respond, BMI issued a statement: “Our focus is not on how our competitors position themselves, our focus is on delivering for our affiliates.”
So far, BMI has made record payments to affiliates under its for-profit model, the company claims. In a Sept. 5 letter, posted on BMI’s website, O’Neill points out that the company has made three distributions under the new model, each higher than the corresponding one from the previous year. BMI said in an emailed statement that the three combined payments are 9% higher than they were in the previous year. Two of those payouts, according to O’Neill’s Sept. 5 letter, “are the “largest in [the] company’s history.” BMI also set a record in 2022, when it collected $1.573 billion, a 15.58% increase over the previous year, and distributed what it called an “unprecedented” $1.471 billion, a 10.2% increase.
If BMI’s core business keeps growing, it would be relatively easy for the company to continue to increase annual payouts, while keeping healthy profits for itself, industry financial executives point out. From now on, though, songwriters and publishers will have to take BMI’s word for its financial success because, according to sources, its 2022 results are the last ones it will make public. The kind of financial information BMI has traditionally shared would allow publishing executives to see where BMI’s EBITDA is coming from – which could potentially fuel further debate about how much of that money ought to have gone to rightsholders, but didn’t.
Going forward, BMI will instead emphasize and expand the financial information it provides to individual songwriters and their publishers to allow them to compare its payouts with previous years – and potentially, if BMH songwriters so choose, with those going to their co-songwriters who are affiliated with other PROs. That information would show affiliates that it takes its obligations to pay creators competitively, say sources familiar with BMI’s thinking.
BMI’s reluctance to share information is not unique. Both SESAC and Global Music Rights (GMR) operate under a for-profit model, and neither shares information about its overall financial results. Sources speculate that GMR, a boutique U.S. performance rights organization that represents top-tier writers for performance rights licensing, collects more than $150 million. Less is known about SESAC’s financials, which it guards closely, but in 2013 when investment firm Rizvi Traverse acquired a 75% interest in the company, Billboard obtained the financial information used to shop the company which showed that in 2011 SESAC took in $128 million in collections, and paid out $60 million in distributions, leaving itself with $68 million in net publisher’s share. After $27 million in expenses, the company realized $41 million in EBITDA, an EBITDA margin of 32%, according to Billboard calculations. (Rizvi Traverse subsequently sold SESAC to Blackstone for about $1 billion in 2017.) For the year ended June 30, 2023, Billboard estimates that BMI has an EBITDA margin of 8.1%, although BMI is unlikely to make public these financial results. In other words, SESAC’s 2011 EBIDTA margin was four times larger than BMI’s, Billboard estimates.
SESAC and GMR declined to comment or could not be reached to comment on their profitability. But an executive familiar with SESAC’s strategy noted, “everyone who’s affiliated with SESAC has known SESAC is a for-profit” company. The implication is that it didn’t switch models, as BMI did.
The same goes for GMR, and some industry sources find it ironic that Irving Azoff, who founded the for-profit GMR, is on the board of two of the creators groups leading the charge in criticizing BMI. Like SESAC, GMR has always made clear to songwriters that it operates as a for-profit business, and it shows its affiliates a rate card with the amounts of money it collects from different licensees, sources say, so they can compare that to other PROs. It sticks to those rates, unlike BMI and ASCAP, which have bonus plans, explained on their respective web sites, which pay out more money per play to songwriters who accumulate a certain number of plays.
At BMI and ASCAP, for example, a pop song might generate a payout of about a dollar a play on a popular big-city radio station, but a composition that qualifies for a bonus could generate three times that much, to use a simplified example. These bifurcated rate structures apply to most big genres, and to subscription streaming and satellite radio play, as well as terrestrial radio. While some songwriters and executives argue that it’s not fair to pay top songwriters and their publishers at a higher rate, since their songs accumulate more plays anyway, these plans allow BMI and ASCAP to compete for top writers with SESAC and GMR, which are not bound by antitrust consent decrees the way BMI and ASCAP are. For BMI and ASCAP, having those top writers helps them get better rates from licensees. “A rising tide lifts all boats,” as one PRO executive says.
Even so, these plans show how the two big PROs structure their businesses in order to pay different rates to songwriters, which sources suggest BMI had to do even more in order to generate a profit.
Sources familiar with BMI’s thinking dismiss as inaccurate the idea that it will change the way it pays songwriters and publishers and BMI in an email to Billboard called this unfounded speculation. But other industry sources suggest that BMI’s switch to a for-profit model gives it an incentive to grow that would make such a switch worth considering. And there are plenty of ways it could do so. “There are a lot of rule changes they can make there and in other places to get dribs and drabs that would impact people equally but not so noticeably,” says an executive at a competing PRO. As another executive notes, paraphrasing a music publishing saying, “If you get a crumb here and a crumb there, eventually you have a loaf of bread.”
If BMI does decide to alter its payout structure, changes are likely to come at the expense of less popular songwriters on the so-called long tail, argue other sources, or smaller publishers who are less likely to push back. “The people with no representation are at the biggest risk in the for-profit model,” the music publishing executive says. “For sure, [BMI’s profit] will come out of the pocket of many, many people who are currently paid little amounts of dollars.”
Another executive familiar with BMI’s plans says that this kind of speculation is nonsense, and O’Neill said in the Sept. 5 letter that there is no truth to these rumors. “The industry’s most successful music creators didn’t start out that way,” he said in the Sept. 5 letter, “and we pride ourselves on our work helping to guide, develop, and support your talent to ensure your passion can also be a profession.”
Not everyone is convinced, though. “In the music industry,” says another veteran executive, “we usually oil the squeaky wheels with money.”
OTHER QUESTIONS
Even after these two big questions are addressed, others remain. One: Will BMI loosen its rules on songwriter departures, since its switch to a for-profit model represents such a dramatic change in how it operates?
More immediately, will BMI’s balancing act – operating for-profit while continuing to make sure its affiliates are paid fairly – appeal to a private equity player? The company already operates under a consent decree, and its first attempt at a sale, in the summer of 2022, didn’t succeed.
It’s also hard to predict what effects a potential BMI sale to a private equity fund would have on its regulatory environment, from the possibility of more antitrust scrutiny from the U.S. Dept. of Justice to the chance of a renewed look at a compulsory license for public performances.
And the big question driving all of the arguments still remain unanswered. If BMI does make a deal to sell itself, will songwriters and publishers share in what sources suggest is a $1.7 billion valuation price? Will some of that money be earmarked for infrastructure improvements? Or will all of it go to the radio and TV stations that own BMI? Since BMI has taken in an average of about $238 million a year in annual licensing fees from terrestrial radio and broadcast television over the last half-decade, that means that a price of about $1.7 billion would fund about a seven-year licensing rebate for BMI’s owners.
Warner Chappell Music entered into new contracts with Guy Moot, co-chair/CEO, and Carianne Marshall, co-chair/COO, according to a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Friday (Sept. 15).
The new employment agreements go into effect on Oct. 1 and lock in both executives until Mar. 31, 2028. Both Moot and Marshall enjoyed 25% raises; the former’s base salary jumped from $1,750,000 to $2,187,500, while the latter’s rose from $1,250,000 to $1,562,500. Annual discretionary bonus targets for the pair increased as well, climbing from $1,750,000 to $2,187,500.
Marshall ascended to the COO role in April 2018, while Moot was named CEO the following year. They’ve since moved to sign acts like Frank Ocean, the Quincy Jones catalog and the Pop Smoke estate. “I don’t want us to be looking at every deal just because it’s in the market — we want to pick the winners, be selective [but] aggressive in how we close those deals,” Moot told Billboard in 2020.
“We can drive value for a lot of these catalogs by not just continuing to take good care of the big copyrights but also doing a deep dive,” Marshall added. “For the first time, we have a global head of synchronization, which is really important: We want to work with anyone who wants to use our songs to try to figure out how to create solutions for them. It’s important to us to be able to search our catalog to find something in every genre and at every price point with a quick turnaround.”
In the first quarter of 2019, Warner Chappell had a 16.13% share of the top 100 radio songs. In the first quarter of 2023, that share rose to 20.71%, though it fell to 17.21% in the second quarter. Also in the second quarter, Warner Chappell’s Hot 100 Songs market share was 19.94%.
I’m a California-raised Filipino American who spent my formative years (in the mid-aughts) worshiping bands like Death Cab for Cutie and much of the Myspace-era Warped Tour scene. So when I was 16, I decided to pursue my dream of starting my own band. But as I took a closer look at the artists I loved, the realization hit: Apart from Joey Santiago of the Pixies (who is Filipino), there was no one who looked like me.
Even as I transitioned into the business side of the music industry — working at large management companies, agencies and in touring — the lack of diversity was hard to ignore. And while the industry has changed a lot since I was a teenager, it still has so much room to grow.
As an active songwriter and senior director of A&R at Angry Mob Music Publishing, I’m a big advocate for songwriting camps and the significant opportunity they offer to everyone involved. I recently joined an organization called Mono Stereo Groove, which focuses on the representation of AAPI songwriters in the industry, and, inspired by all of the amazing work being done by those involved in the organization, I wanted to spearhead my own initiative. So at Angry Mob, I decided to introduce a diversity initiative into all creative areas, including by focusing on one of the most important elements in all of songwriting: the community.
This is why I recently launched the New Normal Writing Camp — an all-inclusive, diversity-forward camp that says it all in the name. I wanted to show that diversity should be represented not only on the artist level but also within the writing rooms, which have been very slow to catch up in terms of diversity. Our first annual New Normal Writing Camp, held in June 2023, featured 70% female artists/writers and 50% women producers representing more than 12 cultural backgrounds and featured artists including UMI, Deb Never, Yuna and Paravi. The hope is that camps like this will continue to push the industry to embrace all of the beautifully diverse writers and producers who deserve to be in high-level writing rooms.
The music industry can be difficult to work in, and these songwriting camps give the participants a chance to be themselves, get out of their comfort zones and make music in an intimate, safe space. Through these camps, I have the opportunity to create a diverse environment where songwriters and other professionals can network with those who do and don’t look like them, be exposed to a variety of genres and work with people with whom they otherwise may not have had the opportunity.
The best parts of these week-long writing events are the beautiful songs that are created and the lasting friendships that come out of them. It’s truly special to see people connect through their life stories, cultures and interests, creating music that reflects those. Unless you’re a person of color, it might be hard to grasp how crucial it is to see others who look like you pursuing their dreams and being given a fair shot in a white male-dominated industry. That’s why camps like these — also including Spotify’s GLOW camp for LGBTQ+ writers, Spotify’s Frequency camp for black writers and ASCAP’s She Is the Music camp for women songwriters — are so important.
When chatting about my intention to create writing environments that reflect the world we live in, the response from some industry professionals is usually one of surprise. While that response isn’t necessarily bad, it proves this inclusive approach is far from the norm. But it shouldn’t be. What the industry is blinded to is the potential to miss out on this generation’s next big artist/songwriter/producer — all because its leaders aren’t investing in underrepresented songwriters. All companies need to prioritize this issue, and I feel incredibly lucky to have the Angry Mob team behind me, championing my passion and continuously working alongside me to ensure we’re building a diverse roster of clients and organizing diverse writing camps.
It’s obvious that the music industry has a lot of growing to do, and I could have given up on it a long time ago due to my own experiences with close-minded gatekeepers — but I know that my work, however small, can really move the needle in the right direction. I am extremely proud to be a Filipino American, and it’s important to me to create spaces in the industry where the AAPI community and other underrepresented POC can grow and pursue opportunities that are often not given to them, helping ease the need to work twice as hard to even be considered.
My hope for the future of our industry is equity. I am honored to write about this topic and even share my experience, but I would also like for opportunities in the music industry for underrepresented groups to look the same as everyone else’s. Harkening back to the name of the songwriting camp I launched at Angry Mob, I’m optimistic that we can make diversity in songwriting camps the new normal and not something we need to push for any longer. When combined together, the small steps we take within the industry to provide opportunities to underrepresented groups will impact the future of music in immense ways.
Ralph Torrefranca is the senior director of A&R at Angry Mob Music. He is also a songwriter and the singer/guitarist in the post-punk band Cuffed Up.
The board of directors of Hipgnosis Songs Fund said on Thursday that the music royalty fund founded by Merck Mercuriadis plans to sell two portions of its song catalog in a bid to increase its stock price and pay down debt.
The proposed sales include one package of assets that consists of 29 catalogs worth roughy $440 million, which the Blackstone-backed entity, Hipgnosis Songs Capital, has agreed to acquire. The second package of assets, worth $25 million, includes songs Hipgnosis Songs Fund acquired in 2020 from Kobalt, and is being shopped to external buyers.
The board introduced the proposed sales, which have a combined value of $465 million, alongside a proposal to buy back up to $180 million of its own stock, to pay down $250 million of its revolving debt and to introduce new, lower advisory fees to be paid to Hipgnosis Song Management Limited. The board says it believes the package of proposals, which must be approved by shareholders, will serve as a “catalyst for a re-rating of the company’s share price … (which) over the last 18 months … has not reflected the fundamental value of the company.”
This follows news last week of Concord’s $469 million bid for rival Round Hill Music Royalty Fund, a move that gave Round Hill and Hipgnosis’ stock prices a much-needed boost. Round Hill’s stock price spiked 65% after the acquisition announcement to $1.13.
“Given the substantial share price discount to fundamental value in recent months, share buy backs enable (Hipgnosis Songs Fund Ltd) to invest further into the remaining portfolio at a material discount to its fundamental asset value,” according to the statement. “These disposals are of the smallest magnitude possible that would provide the required capital to execute on this strategy, whilst ensuring that the ongoing investment case for Hipgnosis Songs Fund remains intact by protecting the strength of the remaining portfolio.”
The board says that the proposed sale worth $440 million that would go to Hipgnosis Songs Capital, a fund run by Mercuriadis’ Hipgnosis Song Management and Blackstone, reflects a multiple of 18.3x historical Net Publisher Share and is “designed to protect the strength of the remaining portfolio” because it will leave the London Stock Exchange-listed Hipgnosis Song Fund with a “concentration of culturally important and successful songs.”
Those songs, it says, represent 81% of the existing portfolio by fair value, including ownership in seven of the Fund’s 10 largest catalogs, and are mostly older vintages, such as 47 of Rolling Stone’s 500 Greatest Songs of All Time (down from the Fund’s current ownership stake in 52 of those songs.
The board says the sales price represents a 51% premium, compared to the asset’s valuation based on the company’s 30-day average market capitalization up to Sept. 13, 2023. It also represents a discount of 17.5% to the fair value of the package of assets compared to the valuation disclosed in the company’s most recent annual report, out March 31.
By comparison, Concord’s cash bid of $1.15 per share for Round Hill’s Music Royalty Fund represented a 67% premium to the share price and a 11.5% discount per-share net asset value ascribed to Round Hill by Citron Cooperman, a leading valuation expert.
With regards to the second proposed sale of rounghly $25 million-worth of songs, the board said it had long anticipated it would need to sell some of what it acquired from Kobalt’s Fund One.
“They were considered non-core as the company does not have perpetual ownership rights or the songs require ongoing accounting and reporting obligations that take up significant bandwidth which can be better focused on active song management,” the board said in the statement.
Billboard reported that a package of non-core assets was being shopped in July.
Hipgnosis Songs Fund will hold meetings for shareholders to vote on the proposals as well as the company’s first continuation vote on or before Oct. 25, according to the statement. If approved, the $440 million asset sale to the Blackstone-backed Hipgnosis fund will result in the the publicly listed Hipgnosis fund paying $6.7 million in corporation tax.
Reservoir Media has signed a go-forward publishing deal with platinum-selling songwriter Steph Jones. The genre-fluid Angeleno has co-written songs for a who’s-who of hitmakers, including Selena Gomez (“People You Know”), P!nk (“Happy”), Keith Urban (“Polaroid”), Panic! At the Disco (“Roaring 20s”), Celine Dion (“Look At Us Now”), Latto (“Lottery”) and Kelsea Ballerini (“Hole in the Bottle”). The biggest feather in her cap, at least recently, has been the success of her collaboration with pop singer Sabrina Carpenter for her 2022 album Emails I Can’t Send. The pair co-wrote several songs on the album, which rose to No. 23 on the Billboard 200 albums chart, including “Bet U Wanna,” “Bad for Business,” the bonus track “Things I Wish You Said” and “Nonsense,” which cracked the top 40 on the Pop Airplay chart. (Fun Fact: Carpenter nearly left it off the album.)
“Among the industry’s circles, ‘Steph Jones’ is the name on everybody’s lips,” said Reservoir executive vp and global creative director Donna Caseine. “Having success across multiple genres, her star burns brighter every day, and her writing continues to impress artists, listeners, and industry experts, alike. We are so happy to be supporting her career and helping her leverage opportunities to create more incredible songs.”
Reservoir has also acquired the publishing rights to the catalog of multi-Platinum-selling country songwriter, producer, and singer Kerry Kurt Phillips. A longtime collaborator of Tim McGraw, Phillips co-wrote a number of the star’s greatest hits including “Down on the Farm” and “Live Like You Were Dying.” One of the songwriters that defined the sound of country in the 1990s and 2000s, he also wrote with country legends George Jones, Billy Ray Cyrus, Tracy Crd, Craig Morgan and more.
Warner Chappell Music and Warner Chappell Music Colombia have extended their publishing deal with Latin producer CASTA, in partnership with Edgar Barrera’s BorderKid Publishing. Last year, the Colombian producer (born Luis Miguel Gómez Castaño) co-produced Becky G and Karol G’s “MAMIII,” as well as Manuel Turizo’s “La Bachata” — both top five entries on Billboard’s Hot Latin Songs chart.
AMR Songs has acquired the songwriting catalog of Fitz and the Tantrums keyboardist Jeremy Ruzumna, which includes his rights to the band’s biggest hits like “Hand Clap” “Out Of My League” and “The Walker.” His catalog of hits also includes a piece of Macy Gray’s timeless song “I Try.”
Kobalt has signed Jake Torrey to a worldwide publishing administration deal, including global synch and creative services. Recently, Torrey co-wrote Calvin Harris and Sam Smith’s “Desire,” YUNGBLUD’s “Hated” and “Low Life,” and Lauren Spencer Smith’s “That Part.” In addition, he is a longtime collaborator to Charlie Puth (“Light Switch,” “I Don’t Think That I Like Her,” and more) and Justin Bieber (“Off My Face” and “Lifetime”).
Pulse Music Group has joined forces with Wide Eyed Entertainment to extend its global publishing deal with Sarah “Solly” Solovay. The hitmaker is best known for tracks like “Heart Wants What It Wants” by Bebe Rexha, “Summer Of Love” by Shawn Mendes, and “Take You Dancing” by Jason Derulo.
UMP Germany and Electric Feel Europe have joined together to sign Berlin-based producer and songwriter SUENA to a global publishing deal. Best known for co-producing “Roller” — which received Diamond status in Germany — and remains one of the biggest local songs of the decade so far.
Warner Chappell has signed Cole Miracle to a global publishing deal. With credits on songs by Wyatt Flores, LECADE, Shaylen, Graham Barham, Eddie And The Getaway, David J, and Evan Honer, Miracle’s writing spans country, pop and rock.
Reel Muzik Werks — an independent publishing and rights management company — signed a global administration deal with independent production music company Level 77 Music.
Universal Music Publishing Group (UMPG) has signed Academy Award and Grammy-winning composer Stephen Schwartz to an exclusive global administration agreement. Schwartz has also received six Tony nominations for composing the music for such shows as Godspell, Pippin and Wicked, which is being turned into a two-part Universal Pictures film starring Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo. Schwartz has won […]
Mexican music singer-songwriter Ivan Cornejo has signed an exclusive global publishing agreement with Universal Music Publishing Group (UMPG), the company announced Wednesday (Sept. 13). The deal with UMPG comes just weeks after Cornejo joined Interscope Records’ roster — he had been signed to indie label Manzana Records since 2021. “I’m incredibly grateful about my signing with […]
It’s fitting that on the same day that Hilary — Southern California’s first tropical storm in 84 years — rains her way out of Los Angeles, Sean “Diddy” Combs breezes into Billboard’s studio for a sit-down interview. He’s a fascinating whirlwind of activity from the moment he arrives in his ever-present shades: stopping first to huddle with the photographer about the lighting for the shoot, orchestrating the background setup for his video chat; then changing outfits to match his vibe just before the cameras roll. “It’s just not my vibration,” he declares at one point as the backdrop is being rearranged. “I’m in a high frequency right now.”
“High frequency” and “low frequency” are phrases that often crop up during this interview and a follow-up conversation a week later as Combs talks about returning to music with his first album in 13 years, The Love Album: Off the Grid, and explains his take on what fans have been missing from him.
“You’ve always got to bring something new and fresh,” he says. “I wouldn’t have come back after 13 years if I didn’t have something to say.”
And right now, Combs has got a lot to say. This year marks the 30th anniversary of Bad Boy Entertainment and the 10th anniversary of his REVOLT TV network, with its reimagined REVOLT World summit (featuring keynotes, panels and performances by Don Toliver, Mr. Eazi and more) slated for Sept. 22-24 in Atlanta. And with his sixth studio album that his own Love Records will deliver on Sept. 15 (“Diddy Day,” he calls it), he’s officially launching a creative renaissance, too.
The R&B album features Diddy rapping alongside a guest roster of 29 established and emerging stars, ranging from Mary J. Blige, H.E.R., Summer Walker, Jazmine Sullivan and Coco Jones to The-Dream, Justin Bieber, Ty Dolla $ign, Burna Boy, Kalan.FrFr and Love Records artist Jozzy. Comprising 22 tracks and two interludes, The Love Album: Off the Grid is dedicated to late producer Chucky Thompson, who was an original member of Bad Boy’s in-house production collective called the Hitmen. The Weeknd makes his final guest stint on the album’s next single, “Another One of Me,” with French Montana and 21 Savage. Another track, “Kim Porter,” with Diddy and Babyface featuring John Legend, pays tribute to Combs’ late former girlfriend and mother of three of his children.
“This isn’t just an R&B album; it’s an R&B movie [about love],” says Combs, who executive-produced and curated the project. “It’s probably one of the biggest collections of talent ever, all unified on one album. And I happen to be blessed to have The Weeknd’s last feature. The song talks about being unique, in a sense — telling your ex-girl that another one of me won’t come around.”
As an artist, Combs’ bona fides speak for themselves. Since his ’90s heyday, the triple Grammy winner has sold 8.1 million albums in the United States, according to Luminate, with five titles charting in the top 10 on the Billboard 200: No Way Out (No. 1, 1997), Forever (No. 2, 1999), The Saga Continues … (No. 2, 2001), Press Play (No. 1, 2006) and Last Train to Paris (No. 7, 2011). He has landed 38 career entries on the Billboard Hot 100, including 15 top 10s and five No. 1s: “Can’t Nobody Hold Me Down,” featuring Ma$e; “I’ll Be Missing You,” with Faith Evans and featuring 112; The Notorious B.I.G.’s “Mo Money Mo Problems,” featuring Puff Daddy & Ma$e; “Bump Bump Bump,” with B2K; and “Shake Ya Tailfeather,” with Nelly and Murphy Lee. Still, when his new album’s first single, “Gotta Move On,” with Bryson Tiller, peaked at No. 3 in 2022, it was his first top 10 on the R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay chart since “Last Night” featuring Keyshia Cole in 2007, which went to No. 7. (“Gotta” also topped Adult R&B Airplay for two weeks last November.)
Then in September, Combs rocked the industry with the surprise announcement that he was returning his publishing rights to the artists and songwriters who had helped build his Bad Boy Entertainment into a success — a move that came after detractors, most notably Ma$e, alleged that Combs had treated his artists unfairly over the years. Ma$e, Evans, The LOX, 112 and the estate of The Notorious B.I.G. are among the creatives who have already signed agreements to regain those rights.
During his interview with Billboard, Combs speaks about his push to close the wealth gap for Black people and promote diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives. On behalf of the latter cause, his Sean Combs Foundation recently donated $1 million to Jackson State University, a historically Black university. He also announced a $1 million investment fund in partnership with Earn Your Leisure founders Rashad Bilal and Troy Millings to provide a practical model for economic empowerment in Black communities. He notes as well that profits from the fund would support his three Capital Preparatory charter schools in New York and Connecticut.
Referencing Tulsa, Okla.’s iconic Black Wall Street — which was destroyed in a racially motivated massacre just over 100 years ago — Combs says, “I’m about empowering Black minds, Black ideas, Black businesses. That’s my focus. I used to be looking for the next Biggie. Now I’m looking for the next entrepreneur that I can help support through resources and knowledge. My purpose has leveled up.”
Dina Sahim, who has been co-managing Combs at SALXCO alongside company chief Wassim “Sal” Slaiby since 2021, says there’s a reason why her client has helped foster the careers of so many other stars: “He doesn’t take days off. Every minute of every single day is spent doing something that contributes to his growth as a person, as a businessman and to the people around him. He didn’t get to where he is by mistake. And he lives to perpetuate wealth and inspiration. He wants everybody to eat like he’s eating; wants to teach everyone to take what they have, build on it and create an empire.”
But make no mistake: Combs is still all about having fun as he jubilantly navigates his return to music’s center stage. “I’m a 26-year-old in a 53-year-old body,” the MTV Video Music Awards’ (VMAs) newly minted Global Icon Award honoree says with a laugh. “There are still a lot of things I want to do on my Diddy list. So yeah, I’m back. Just in my bag and having fun. Whenever it feels like work, I’ll leave.”
Combs photographed on August 21, 2023 in Los Angeles.
Austin Hargrave
First things first: What prompted you to return the publishing rights to the Bad Boy artists and writers?
I decided to reassign publishing rights to the whole catalog in May or June 2021. The news is just now coming out because it took time to finalize everything. But this was during the time that I was holding the Grammys to task. I was also getting major offers for the catalog during the [acquisition] frenzy back then. When I was looking at the catalog and everything, I was put in a position where I felt like I had to look in the mirror. I had to make sure that what I was standing for was my total truth. We live in a time where things are constantly evolving. And it was about reform for me. It was me looking at ways I could reform things as a person that’s been asking for change. It was just the right and obvious thing to do; something I’m proud I did. As a businessman, there comes a time when you have to pick purpose over profit. I’m glad that I’ve seen both sides. As a businessman, I’ve evolved and was blessed to be in a position to give the publishing back.
Ma$e was very vocal about reclaiming his publishing rights. Have the two of you reconciled?
Everything’s cool and good now. You know, we’re brothers and brothers fight. I love him and that’s it.
The other big recent news is the release of your long-promised ode to R&B, The Love Album: Off the Grid. Why a return to recording at this point in your career?
It’s been 13 years since Last Train to Paris. When it came out, it kind of broke my heart because people didn’t understand it right away. It was a bit before its time, and I know I was in my ego.
What didn’t they understand?
I had to compromise the uncut Blackness and soul of what I was trying to do, like on the song “Coming Home.” I have the talent as a producer, you know, to make a No. 1 record. But that’s very dangerous because sometimes that record may not be authentic or your intentions aren’t in the right place. My intentions were to get another No. 1 record instead of keeping the album uncut and soulful.
As time went on, people were able to connect with the album, and it’s become a cult classic. But for a couple of years after that, I didn’t know what to do. I wasn’t hearing the sounds. Then I started just dealing with life and had to go through a healing journey. When I came out of that, I was like, “What do I want to do that makes me happy?” And it was, “I need to get back to music.” So I immediately said, “I’m going to start a new label called Love Records, and I’m going to focus on R&B and bring back what it’s missing: that soul, that love, that unapologetic Blackness, that expression of vulnerability and on a different, higher frequency.”
The album sounds very autobiographical. Was that also one of your intentions this time around?
Yes. This time I decided, “I’m going to just bare my soul and give people my truth.” So this is my love story through all of my different relationships. It’s about going away for 48 hours with a young lady, turning the phones off, locking in and connecting. We should all go off the grid with our significant other, whoever it is you love, and get to know each other better. And I had the musical vision for my story. I was like, “First, I’m going to make some R&B music for dancing to make her feel comfortable, then some slow love- and baby-making music for the strokers, then some baby-don’t-leave-me music.” And I have some of the best — and my favorite — voices in R&B telling my love story. What I’m bringing back to the game is that Puffy sound, not following any trends or algorithms. I’m not knocking anything that’s out there, but a lot of things are just so toxic.
Combs photographed on August 21, 2023 in Los Angeles.
Austin Hargrave
Why has R&B become such an important crusade for you?
My first love is R&B. The first record that I produced was the remix of “Come and Talk to Me” by Jodeci. And from there going on to Mary J. Blige and, you know, to being the king of hip-hop soul.
When I was younger, R&B saved my life. I thought I was going to be a football player. Then I got hurt on my last day of camp as a senior. My heart was broken; I didn’t have a B plan. And that music really saved my life. Dancing in the clubs in New York, getting the chance to be picked up as a background dancer and seeing the industry that I fell in love with saved me. Then as life goes on, you get hit with so many things: losing the mother of my children, losing my girlfriend; just being hurt, down and lost. R&B helped me find myself and get back on my feet again. So I can’t wait for people to hear how I’ve come full circle.
In fact, I’ve come full circle on so many things. It’s rare, having a career of 30 years and still having the ability to make relevant music without selling out or trying to be on somebody else’s wave. I’m here to unify us, the whole R&B community. I returned to my roots of production; those sensibilities like when I was just starting out at 23. As a student of the game, I’m working with all the new, younger producers. We have a nice new crew of Hitmen that has been assembled to take this to the next level. I’m learning from them and their fresh energy, and they’re learning from me. That’s one of the things that I’m always going to be: a platform. I went from being on the stage to becoming the stage. So launching some new artists on the album was also a definite priority.
Why did you say last year that R&B is dead?
When I said, “R&B is dead,” I wanted to wake up the R&B universe and shed some light on it. My intention was to do exactly what’s happened. We’re now in this R&B renaissance. After leaving the game for so long and coming back, I realized there was a lack of resources, a lack of support from radio, a lack of belief. When I said [that], it wasn’t being said in a negative way. It was also part of unifying us in getting back to our Blackness, getting off that computer and getting back into feeling. If you ain’t got no feeling, you dead. So I’m here to bring back that feeling.
There are a lot of artists out there, of course, pushing the envelope with different styles of R&B. And I’m seeing people step their game up. This renaissance has such incredible artists from Summer Walker and SZA to The Weeknd and Brent Faiyaz … so much richness. But I believe we have to make some noise to be heard more and get the same resources to be able to compete. This genre deserves to be put in a position to win. R&B and hip-hop are not the same.
I’m glad to hear you say that because many people in the industry keep putting R&B under the hip-hop banner.
I’ve had conversations with some of the people in power, and almost all the people in power are not from the R&B community or the culture. That’s when you get the lack of understanding and resources. To them, it just sounds like the same thing. So I’m in a season of total independence. I had an experience with Motown where it was like, “I’ve come too far to ask somebody that isn’t where I’m from about cultural and artistic things. If I’m going to bet on anybody, I’m going to bet on the people I believe in.” So I decided to go independent with Love Records and Bad Boy. I decided to come back into the game with bolder ideas of ownership, distribution and future manufacturing because those are the things that we as a people are cut out of.
Since #TheShowMustBePaused, has the music industry overall made any substantial progress in terms of diversity, equity and inclusion?
We have some representation … Shout out and all due respect to everybody that’s in power. But [for most people], there’s still somebody over them, a white man that they have to get permission from to do something. And it’s always been the same, no matter what the industry. When you’re independent, you don’t have to ask that permission. You can do what you want to do. It’s time for change. And the only way you get change is you’ve got to make the change — and not just change progress. It’s all a bunch of bulls–t. Diversity isn’t about inclusion; diversity is about sharing power. And nothing has changed. It’s gotten worse.
What about the changes the Recording Academy has made since you put the organization on notice in 2020 for the Grammys never respecting Black music “to the point that it should be”?
They went right to work immediately. There’s a lot of work to be done, but radical steps have been made. And that’s really what I’m on: radical change. Not making tiny steps. Me making those statements made them look at themselves, made me look at myself and made the whole industry have to look at itself and our [collective] responsibility toward evolving through diversity, through economics and through this human race where everybody just wants to be better. But it wasn’t just me; there were a bunch of us [Black executives] that stepped up behind the scenes as a collective in pushing for change. And the Academy really responded in a responsible way. So now it’s also up to artists to understand how to get in there and really utilize the academy for their benefit.
Speaking of change, you signed with SALXCO for management. What was behind that decision?
Finding the right manager is hard. Someone that’s going to be kind of obsessed about every move you have going on as much as you would be. That’s what you hope for: to find someone with that kind of talent, who can actually tell you something worthwhile and understands a bigger picture. For example, one of the big decisions we’ve made is that my first concert will be in Europe, not in America, as we make this a global release. There were a lot of things that affected the whole energy behind how this project is being rolled out and positioned. So I respect Sal’s opinion and vision. And he and Dina make it enjoyable.
Combs photographed on August 21, 2023 in Los Angeles.
Austin Hargrave
In addition to celebrating your 30th anniversary in music, REVOLT is marking its 10th birthday. What’s your vision for the network moving forward?
To make it not just the biggest Black-owned network but the biggest media company that I can. I’m not pigeonholing myself. Again, nobody’s going to give us power, and they’re not going to share it with us. That’s why 10 years ago, I named my network REVOLT, because we have to take our quality of life back. There’s so much value and information. And when the Black media doesn’t have an outlet that’s controlled by somebody of color, then it’s not truly a Black free press. REVOLT is the only foundation right now that’s going in that direction. But it takes time. I own 65% of REVOLT, so we could change the narrative. I’m investing in the Black future with REVOLT. It’s not a hustle, not a money play. Everything I do is to make sure that I do my best to break down the barriers. Media is one of the most important and powerful parts of freedom.
As far as our business strategy, we’re in acquisition mode to really build a Black-owned media conglomerate. That’s why we were looking at BET and at a couple of other businesses. BET is definitely the mecca, the originator of Black media, and still is. So just the thought of unifying … We’re not going to be able to reach our highest level of success in the media world, like a Rupert Murdoch, if we don’t unify. Like me, Tyler Perry and Byron Allen. We have a responsibility because it’s like 15 of us getting money, but 10 billion people in the world. We need to pool our resources, everybody from LeBron James and Issa Rae to Tracee Ellis Ross to Jada Pinkett [Smith] and Queen Latifah. That’s what I’m pushing for: unity in a disruptive way that’s never been done before. Having such a media platform is one of the most powerful tools in changing our trajectory.
Given your busy September with the VMAs, the album rollout and the REVOLT World summit, is the long-awaited Verzuz battle between you and Jermaine Dupri still on the table for this month?
The only Verzuz I want to have right now is Puff Daddy versus Diddy. The only person I’m in competition with is myself. (Smiles.) But the battle with Jermaine isn’t off the table. We’re still trying to work it out, and I definitely look forward to that.
You entered Forbes’ billionaire rappers circle last year. Who’s on their way from hip-hop’s next generation?
Nipsey Hussle, to me, was that young Puff version. But one person that I can say right now is Travis Scott. I can relate to how he’s diversifying his portfolio and really understanding how to take it to the next level. I also think Yung Miami [aka Caresha Brownlee] from the City Girls. She reminds me of Oprah with the endless possibilities that she has as far as her clothing line, television shows, performances, live podcasts. I really respect both of their hustles and see them being able to break through.
Despite this being the 50th-anniversary year of hip-hop, music pundits have written stories about hip-hop’s lack of top-charting singles and albums in 2023. What’s your take on the genre’s evolution into 2024?
Right now, people are looking for something fresh. Everything’s been so monotonous and low frequency with everybody sounding so much like each other. However, I think you’re going to see a balance. You’re still going to have your ratchet stuff, you’re still going to have the turn-up. But people are going to come up with new styles. It’s time. The beauty of it is that you can make your own type of music and cultivate your own community. When you have 8 billion people in the world, you can do all right if you have 2 million in your fan base. I just see hip-hop constantly evolving and constantly melding with different types of music. There’s Afro beats melding with trap melding with what’s going on in London melding with what’s going on in dance music. Everything’s just coming together.
The smile on your face as you say all this … it’s like maybe seeing the younger Sean during the Uptown days.
Definitely. I’ve gotten a chance to look at everything with new, fresh eyes. I learned that from my baby … You know, I just had a baby. And the baby looks around at everything. So I started to look around, hearing things and being more open-minded. The future of hip-hop, I think, is really looking up, especially with AI coming in. I think it’s going to have an impact; that it will be another category of music. But also looking at older hip-hop and R&B artists selling out arenas … it’s a wealthy season right now for music in general.
As you reflect on your career thus far, how do you view your legacy as an elder statesman of hip-hop alongside Dr. Dre and Jay-Z?
We’re all different people at different stages in our lives, you know what I’m saying? But there’s only one Diddy. There’s only one Jay-Z. There’s only one Dr. Dre. We’re all good where we’re at, and we’re in our purpose. I’m living my purpose as far as coming in and making people feel something. Breaking down barriers and showing people how to hustle, make money, make a career and living — and be successful.