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Growing up in the projects of Río Piedras in San Juan, Ozuna had hoop dreams, playing on neighborhood courts until he finally accepted he would never be tall enough to go pro. His younger brother José Ginés, on the other hand, grew right past him and was eventually drafted in 2020 to play in the territory’s premier basketball division: the BSN, or Baloncesto Superior Nacional.
By then, Ozuna had left the projects far behind and become one of the world’s top reggaetón stars. And in 2022, he became the sole owner of BSN’s Los Brujos de Guayama, an underfunded team located far from San Juan. Ozuna moved it to the bigger city of Manatí and renamed it Osos de Manatí (the Manatí Bears, in a nod to his fondness for the animal). Within a year, it rose from last in the league to second place in the 2024 BSN championship.
“Those players needed a push from someone who was listening to them so they’d know there are bigger opportunities,” says Ozuna, who also hired his brother away from a previous team to play for Los Osos. “And I’m teaching them how to set goals and grow, and yes, maybe one day get to the NBA.”
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Ozuna is one of three huge reggaetón artists who in the past few years have acquired ownership in local BSN teams in Puerto Rico. In 2021, Bad Bunny joined manager Noah Assad and Rimas executive Jonathan Miranda in acquiring Los Cangrejeros de Santurce, and the same year, Anuel and his then-manager, Frabian Eli, purchased Los Capitanes de Arecibo. Though Anuel and Eli have since split up and ceded their team ownership, the three artists’ combined star power has reinvigorated a languishing Puerto Rican basketball scene.
While Ozuna put Los Osos on the map, Assad, Miranda and Bad Bunny literally revived Los Cangrejeros, who had been on hiatus since 2016. “We were approached by J.J. Barea, who said he wanted to play his last seasons in front of his home fans in Puerto Rico,” Assad explains. Owning the team, he says, is another way for him, Miranda and Bad Bunny to bring people together. “Puerto Rico is all about family. Just having the team has a positive impact.”
Ozuna has now also bought a minor league team, and he has a development team where kids train from 6 years old until the juniors level. “It’s like a basketball farm,” he says. “We have about 160 kids playing on 10 teams. We pay their transport, their snacks. The vision is for them to realize they have to work in steps to make it big. There’s a lot of talent here, but it wasn’t on display until we came along.”
Other artists outside Puerto Rico are apparently following his example. In January, Colombian rapper Ryan Castro announced he was acquiring a significant stake in Paisas Basketball Club, a professional team in his hometown of Medellín. “It’s another facet for us as entrepreneurs — supporting sports — because the kids in the barrios have the same dreams as us, the artists,” Castro tells Billboard. The same month, Colombian reggaetón star Blessd acquired a stake in Vendsyssel FF, a European second division soccer team.
Castro says his impetus for investing in a team came from his own love of the sport, much like Ozuna, who admits he didn’t have the tools to make it big himself. “Now I can do it for someone else. But it’s not about making money. It’s about love for basketball.”
This story appears in the Feb. 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.
By the time Temple University director of athletic bands Dr. Matt Brunner finally listened to Chappell Roan’s music, many of the young adults in his life — students, band alums, even his son’s girlfriend — had already implored him to check her out.
When he did play the singer’s debut album, The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess, he quickly realized why they’d been so adamant. “I started listening and I was like, ‘Oh, my God. This is awesome. I absolutely have to do this,’ ” he recalls excitedly months later. “Everything about it just worked.”
By that, Brunner means Roan’s glitzy dance-pop tracks seemed tailor-made for a marching band — full of the catchiness and energy the format demands, plus the kind of melodies that begged to be amplified by high brass and drum line-ready percussion. Still struck by how fast the arrangement came to him, Brunner orchestrated a 10-minute halftime medley of the pop star’s music that his marchers eagerly learned in just three rehearsals ahead of the Owls’ September football game against Utah State at Philadelphia’s Lincoln Financial Field.
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Their work paid off before they even stepped onto the field. “Some people said, ‘I’m coming to the football game just to see the show,’ ” Brunner says with a laugh, recalling how the student section later came to life doing Roan’s viral “Hot To Go!” choreography along with the band. With that energy behind it, Temple bested Utah State, 45-29.
Temple University Diamond Marching Band performs at the Temple Owls game against Utah State on Sept. 21, 2024 in Philadelphia, PA.
Ricky Swalm
That kind of stadium-rocking enthusiasm is exactly what motivates collegiate band directors all over the country — whether at major state schools like Temple; smaller, private institutions; or historically Black colleges and universities — to adapt current chart-toppers for halftime shows, stand tunes (keeping the bleachers hyped during timeouts and between plays) and pep rallies every year. Having evolved far beyond their 19th-century military band origins, marching ensembles are now key fixtures in the spectacle of college game days, tasked with engaging fans and generating the kind of hype that will inspire the team, reflect well on the school and, ultimately, manifest in more ticket sales. One of the best ways to serve that mission, the directors of seven different ensembles tell Billboard at the end of their 2024-25 football season, is to incorporate fresh pop music into their repertoires — a goal that’s easier said than done.
For starters, not all pop songs are created equal in the world of marching bands. Directors have numerous considerations to make when vetting potential selections, from crowd appeal — which many of them measure by surveying students, patrolling the Billboard Hot 100 and tracking Spotify streams as early as spring to determine what will be trendy in the fall — to whether they can secure the necessary licensing, budgeting anywhere from a few thousand dollars to five-digit sums for rights-buying each year.
They also must weigh if a hit has enough longevity to justify the time spent getting permissions and then arranging and teaching it to 300-plus marchers. Notre Dame director of bands Dr. Ken Dye still ruefully remembers a “Macarena” draft his ensemble never got to play before the dance craze fell out of favor in the ’90s. He also notes with a laugh that he tries to steer clear of tracks with inappropriate lyrics, to avoid repeating the time he received a stern email “from the boss” over a performance of Daft Punk’s “Get Lucky.” Turning 180 this year, The Fighting Irish’s college marching band is the oldest in the United States and also represents a Catholic university. (So far, nothing has hit Dye’s inbox over the “motherf–ker” bomb in Sabrina Carpenter’s “Please Please Please,” which he paired with Post Malone and Morgan Wallen’s “I Had Some Help” for a 2024 halftime.)
But checking those boxes isn’t enough if a song doesn’t first have the musical foundation of a good marching band tune. University of Southern California (USC) band director Dr. Jacob Vogel says that compelling, stackable melodies; harmonies; basslines; and background elements are crucial ingredients, emphasizing how important variation is for filling stadiums with sound. “I refer to it as the enveloping nature of music,” he explains. “Why do people turn music on so loud in their car? So they feel like they’re inside of it. When I put our arrangements together, I want to make sure the band also has that enveloping nature.”
Fortunately, pop’s current crop of upbeat, melodically driven hits led by the likes of Roan and Carpenter offers those elements in abundance. But Vogel remembers two eras that definitely did not: the Adele-style power ballads of the mid-2010s, which were simply too slow for marching, and the EDM crossover phase before that, which was laden with dubstep dance breaks that band instruments couldn’t replicate.
Hip-hop, band directors say, has always been case by case. Horns can’t mimic the spoken quality of rap, but they can do a track justice if it has a prominent instrumental — like Kendrick Lamar’s “Not Like Us,” which Southern University’s Human Jukebox covered this season. “ ‘They not like us, they not like us’; we wouldn’t be able to musically execute that,” director Dr. Kedric Taylor explains. “But we are able to musically execute ‘bum bum ba bum,’ ” he continues, singing the chromatic four-note string theme that anchors Lamar’s hit and got new heft courtesy of Southern’s screaming horn line.
Once songs are selected and parts assigned, directors and their staff can design field routines — an art form that, at times, is as straightforward as mining a song’s lyrics for ideas. Vogel’s students at USC formed a deck of cards while playing Beyoncé’s “Texas Hold ’Em” at halftime, while Brunner, fully aware of a particular lyric’s cheeky double meaning, had his Temple marchers take the shape of a rabbit during Roan’s “Red Wine Supernova” after spelling out her first name. “I can play dumb,” he says with a laugh. “I figured that the people that knew about it would love it and the people that didn’t would be like, ‘Oh, that’s cute.’ ”
Temple University Diamond Marching Band performs at the Temple Owls game against Utah State on Sept. 21, 2024 in Philadelphia, PA.
Ricky Swalm
Other parts of the field plan are far less intuitive. Directors must always think mechanically about the relationship between drill and music to ensure that their bands’ sound isn’t compromised by the spacing, timing or direction of any on-field configurations. The list of errors to avoid is endless, as University of Michigan assistant director of bands Dr. Richard Frey illustrates: “Where you place the tubas relative to the melody ends up being critical. If the drums are on the 10-yard line, we’re in big trouble. If you’re backward marching at 172 bpm, the sound’s not going to be great.”
But that painstaking attention to detail pays off on game day, when the marchers finally get to show off their hard work and see how it fires up fans in real time. Their pop arrangements are usually mixed in with classic hits and school songs, but Auburn University director Dr. Corey Spurlin — recalling how the student section sang and danced to Carpenter’s “Espresso” throughout the 2024 season — can attest that the more recent tracks are particularly useful for engaging the crowd. And as long as collegiate marching bands can do that, he says, the ensembles, and not recorded music, will remain “the soundtrack of college football.”
“When people come to the stadium, you want that experience to be worth the investment,” Spurlin says. “Bands are the key cog in being the sight — and sound especially — of college football and making people feel like they’re part of the pageantry. The percussion, the brass, the woodwinds — that’s what we associate with the sport. You can’t get that in your living room.”
Incorporating popular music also helps bands promote themselves and their schools far beyond campus. Many of the directors interviewed here scored viral moments for their shows this year, and one group, Jackson State University’s Sonic Boom of the South, even caught the attention of an artist it covered: Tyler, The Creator, who retweeted a video of the band’s speaker-busting rendition of “Sticky” in November and wrote, “THIS IS WHY I ARRANGED IT THAT WAY … MY HEART IS FILLED.”
“That’s what arranging is all about,” director Dr. Roderick Little says proudly of the rapper’s reaction. “Music is such an important vehicle because it can be interpreted by different musicians a thousand different ways.
“I’m just happy that our program was the one to bring his vision to life,” he adds. “I hope that it brings about new opportunities for marching bands so we can continue to create this art form and ultimately provide opportunities for our students — because we have a lot to offer.”
This story appears in the Feb. 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.
P-Lo stands under a basketball hoop on a rooftop outdoor court that overlooks downtown San Francisco, surrounded by the Bay Area Avengers — Saweetie, Larry June, Kamaiyah, G-Eazy, thuy, LaRussell and YMTK, all local MCs gathered to shoot the video for their new track “Player’s Holiday ’25.” The song is part of an upcoming project spearheaded by P-Lo and Golden State Entertainment (GSE), the record label and content division of the NBA’s Golden State Warriors, which is planning to release the album in partnership with EMPIRE to celebrate the local music scene ahead of NBA All-Star Weekend in San Francisco in mid-February. The vibe on-set is breezy and free; the collection of talent, both on the song and hanging out here today, makes the afternoon feel like the modern-day, Bay version of the Great Day in Harlem celebrating the 1950s New York jazz scene.
“Just having all the creatives and artists in the Bay there for that and just being able to be present in that moment and really put that thing together to represent the Bay correctly [was special],” P-Lo says. “There’s been so much negative talk about San Francisco and Oakland [Calif.] and how dangerous it is, and all these bad things about our region and our area, and we wanted to just show the unity and our resilience to all of that.”
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All told, the album — called For the Soil — will feature over a dozen Bay Area artists, including icons like E-40 and Too $hort. It’s the latest project from GSE, which formed in 2022 with EMPIRE as its distribution partner and has released music by K-pop act BamBam and Oakland artist MAYZIN.
EMPIRE founder and CEO Ghazi and his company “have global reach but have maintained deep roots in and genuine love for the Bay,” says David Kelly, chief business officer for GSE and chief legal officer for the Warriors. “When Golden State Entertainment wanted to do something special in connection with NBA All-Star 2025 coming to the San Francisco Bay Area, it was only right that we linked up with P-Lo and release it via EMPIRE. The project is a celebration of Bay Area music and culture and a testament to the rich music scene that EMPIRE has helped create in and for the Bay.”
It’s also part of a suite of projects that EMPIRE is spearheading ahead of All-Star Week, including several parties in the area and a collaboration with NBA 2K for a limited-edition vinyl package featuring EMPIRE artists, on which “Player’s Holiday ’25” is also featured.
“Growing up a Warriors fan and going to the games all my life,” P-Lo says, “just to be able to work with a company that really is like one of the better franchises in all of sports, to be able to do something like this with them, is a dream come true.”
This story appears in the Feb. 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.
It’s an early evening in late September, and San Francisco is gleaming. The back patio at EMPIRE’s recording studios near the city’s Mission District is all white marble, reflecting the last rays of the setting sun as dozens of YouTube executives mill about, holding mixed drinks and picking at passed trays of beef skewers, falafel, lamb dumplings, and ham and chicken croquettes. At the moment, the companies’ top executives — EMPIRE founder and CEO Ghazi, COO Nima Etminan and president Tina Davis, as well as YouTube global head of music Lyor Cohen, among others — are sequestered in the studio’s live room for a quarterly business review, discussing the platform’s new tools, the label’s upcoming projects and how the two can best work together. A cake is adorned with YouTube’s latest milestone: 100 million members of its music subscription service.
Inside, the aesthetic is flipped: Black walls, dark wood floors and a black marble bar set the tone, while a projection screen in the main lounge area shows photos of Nigerian superstar and recent EMPIRE signee Tiwa Savage, who is in town finishing her new album. As Ghazi, Cohen and the others wrap their meeting and begin to filter into the party, everyone is ushered inside to hear her play some of her new music.
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“This is my first project at EMPIRE, and it’s really emotional for me because I’ve never had a label be this invested; most labels are not in the studio with you from morning until night,” Savage says before introducing her first single from the album, “Forgiveness,” which she will release a couple of weeks later. “They made me feel so welcome. I’ve been signed several times, but I’ve never been in a situation where it felt like home.”
The next day, at a barbecue restaurant near the studio, Ghazi is reflecting on the event — and what the connection with YouTube’s Cohen means to him. “I used an analogy with Lyor: ‘This is not a full-circle moment; this is the Olympic rings of full-circle moments,’ ” he says. “This brings so many circles of my life into place. I started as an engineer; I’m in a state-of-the-art studio that I could only dream about that I built with my bare hands. I used to listen to Run-D.M.C. — he found Run-D.M.C. The first tape I ever bought was Raising Hell — now I’m raising hell in the music business.” He laughs. “I prefer to call it ‘raising angels,’ but it’s cool. And then you have a giant like him in the record business that people used to blueprint their careers after, and now he’s telling me that he’s proud of the success I’ve had and that he watched me build a legacy. That’s validation.”
For Ghazi, 48, validation has seemingly been everywhere of late. The company that he founded in 2010 as a digital distributor for his friends in the Bay Area hip-hop scene has grown into one of the most formidable and powerful companies in the global music business. It has a record label, publishing and content divisions, a merchandise operation and 250 employees around the world, with a presence on six continents and deep connections to the local culture, politics and sports, including the Golden State Warriors and the San Francisco 49ers.
And now, as EMPIRE turns 15, it’s coming off its best year yet: For 19 nonconsecutive weeks, spanning from mid-July to the end of November, EMPIRE artist Shaboozey held the top slot on the Billboard Hot 100 with “A Bar Song (Tipsy),” tying the record for the chart’s longest-running No. 1 — an enviable achievement for any label, but particularly for an independent without any outside investment or corporate overlords. Shaboozey landed five nominations at the 2025 Grammy Awards, including best new artist and song of the year, redefining what is possible for an indie act and company in the modern music business.
Even more notably, that success arrived during a year when all three major labels experienced a painful and layoff-heavy molting process, reorganizing themselves to emphasize speed, technology, artist services and distribution — or, to put it another way, to try to look a lot more like EMPIRE. (“I think the battleship has been observing the speedboat for quite some time,” Ghazi says.) Amid those changes in the business, a new school of thought has emerged: that success is often found in cultural niches that gain mainstream acceptance from the bottom up, not the top down. Ghazi embodies that change: He may not have the mainstream name recognition of his peers in New York or L.A., but in his force of personality — humble yet emphatic, as many successful founders are — and his tireless, globe-trotting pace, he fits right in among the elite movers and shakers of the business.
“This industry used to be full of super-colorful entrepreneurs that were focused on their art, and when you talked to them, they had a certain excitement and shine in their eyes. Unfortunately, there’s not that many of them [left],” Cohen says about Ghazi. “I would call him one of the few. A person that is committed to excellence, cares about the details, shows up, has continuity and he’s positive and enthusiastic.”
Hermès coat and shirt
Austin Hargrave
There’s another reason why the YouTube party held such significance for Ghazi: The video streaming service is another company born, bred and based in the Bay Area that grew into a music industry behemoth after being built on tech foundations. Ghazi worked in Silicon Valley, including at an ad-supported video streaming service half a decade before YouTube, prior to dedicating his life to music, first as a recording engineer and then at digital distributor Ingrooves. He then founded EMPIRE — and sees his company as part of that lineage. “I’ve never met a music exec that has such a grip on the three verticals — creative, business and technology — and is fluent in all of it and active in all of it,” says Peter Kadin, a major-label veteran who is now executive vp of marketing at EMPIRE. “Someone who can go from meeting with an engineering team about building out the future of our systems, to sitting with finance and going through our deal structures with all the major DSPs [digital service providers], to going to the studio at night and mixing a Money Man album. There is no other executive doing that.”
Ghazi’s tech background and San Francisco’s reputation as the center of the tech industry are among the many reasons why he has always maintained that EMPIRE will never leave the Bay. The area has been part of him since he grew up in San Francisco’s Potrero Hill neighborhood, during his days at San Francisco State, throughout his time in the trenches of the local hip-hop scene and even now, when he has the ear of the new mayor of San Francisco, Daniel Lurie, whom he’s advising on cultural matters, and is working hand in hand with the NBA and the Golden State Warriors to produce events and release projects surrounding the upcoming NBA All-Star Weekend, which will be held in the Bay Area in February for the first time in 25 years.
But for a city that has had its share of big music moments and in which several major companies got their start, San Francisco’s music, and music tech, scenes have receded over the last two decades, with many companies lured away by the brighter lights and easier connections that exist in New York or Los Angeles. It’s a fate Ghazi is determined to avoid for EMPIRE — and a trend he’s actively working to reverse.
Ghazi likes to tell a story about when he was in his 20s in the early 2000s and mixed The Game’s first mixtape at San Francisco’s Hyde Street Studios. The project, which came out in 2004, ultimately helped Game get signed to Dr. Dre’s Aftermath Records, and when Dre and one of his executives heard the tape, they wondered who had mixed it because it sounded much more professional than the typical lo-fi promotional tapes making the rounds among underground hip-hop heads at the time. The guys invited Ghazi down to L.A. and encouraged him to move to the city and start working with them.
“I was flattered by it, but I was also furious — mad that I had to leave the Bay to build a music career,” he recalls. “I remember driving past the Capitol Tower like, people drive past this building and think, ‘I’m going to work there one day.’ And we don’t have that in the Bay. And I was like, ‘That sucks! I’m going to figure this s–t out!’
“It took me a long time — a really long time — but I figured it out.”
Prada coat, shirt, pants and shoes.
Austin Hargrave
“This might be the most mellow day I’ve had in three months.”
A few weeks later, Ghazi is driving through the streets of San Francisco, giving the signature tour of the city that he offers to anyone new in town — or anyone who may have only heard of its downtown blight and violence as depicted by the national news. It’s another beautiful fall day in the Bay, the first vintage weather after an extended heat wave, and he has cleared his schedule for the afternoon. For the next four hours, he unspools the history of the city neighborhood by neighborhood, street by street.
From the EMPIRE office in the Financial District, he drives into Chinatown, then to the Marina District and the picturesque Palace of Fine Arts. After that it’s into the Presidio, where Lucasfilm is headquartered, then over the Golden Gate Bridge into Sausalito, stopping at an overlook for a view of the city. Then it’s back across the bridge into San Francisco, along Baker Beach into Sea Cliff and then Richmond District, the neighborhood where Ghazi lived in a 350-square-foot apartment when he was first dreaming up what would become EMPIRE. (“I had like four f–king jobs,” he says. “Some of the happiest times of my life, though. Some of the most stressful, but some of the happiest.”)
Along the way — passing through Lands End lookout point, Golden Gate Park, the Haight-Ashbury district and Billionaires’ Row, down the famously crooked Lombard Street and into the Mission — he calls out the landmarks of his life: the apartment where he was born, his first recording studio, the place he got his first boba milk tea, the theater where he used to watch movies for two dollars, the Haight storefront where he once co-owned a clothing store, the place where he and Etminan built the wiring for the first EMPIRE office through a hole in the wall. After a few hours, he parks near the water and gets out of the car to take it all in.
“They say San Francisco’s a doom loop,” he says, looking across McCovey Cove into Oracle Park, home of the San Francisco Giants, in the late-afternoon sun. “This look like a doom loop to you?”
Louis Vuitton sunglasses and jacket
Austin Hargrave
San Francisco is personal to Ghazi in a way that goes deeper than the typical nostalgia people feel for home. And the recent right-wing news coverage by 24/7 cable networks — which has portrayed the city as crime-ridden and drug-addled, overrun by a persistent homelessness problem that the city has not been able to handle — that has proliferated in recent years has spurred him and other music leaders in the city into action.
“San Francisco had such a heyday up until the pandemic, and it’s been really hard to watch the world s–t on our city,” says Bryan Duquette, founder of Another Planet Management and a member of the core executive team at Another Planet Entertainment, the San Francisco-based independent promoter that puts on the Outside Lands music festival and operates Bay Area venues including Berkeley’s Greek Theatre and San Francisco’s Bill Graham Civic Auditorium. Duquette, who has lived in the Bay for over 20 years, met Ghazi in 2023 and found a kindred spirit determined to rectify the negative perceptions held by outsiders. Last year, Another Planet teamed with Ghazi, EMPIRE and artist management company Brilliant Corners to assemble 100 members of the Bay Area music scene to meet with Lurie, then a mayoral candidate, to discuss his plan to reinvest in the artistic community. “Daniel really was trying to get to the people who were creating culture and helping the city become, again, what it was seen as globally,” Duquette says. “And Ghazi is a really big piece of that.”
Lurie’s outreach ultimately won him much of the creative community’s support, and in turn helped win him the election; he was sworn in as the 46th mayor of San Francisco in January. “The arts and culture have always defined us, and I firmly believe that EMPIRE and Ghazi are going to be part of the revitalization of our city,” Lurie says. “He knows what’s going on in the music world better than just about anybody, and I’ll be listening carefully to his guidance and his counsel.”
San Francisco Mayor Daniel Lurie and Ghazi in 2025.
Courtesy of EMPIRE
EMPIRE’s fierce independence, too, is an expression of the Bay’s ethos. “He’s a representative of the independent grind and the culture here; that’s something that everyone in the Bay can resonate with, just coming from the ground up and being the underdog,” says P-Lo, the Bay Area rapper who has been with EMPIRE since 2017. (P-Lo is spearheading a project with the Golden State Warriors’ content division, Golden State Entertainment, that will be released ahead of NBA All-Star Week and distributed by EMPIRE and will feature more than a dozen Bay Area artists.)
But that independence, and particularly the eye-opening success that EMPIRE has experienced over the past few years, has also brought scrutiny — and tests of Ghazi’s commitment, particularly during a time of intense consolidation in the music business. When a media report circulated in November 2023 positing that LionTree was lining up a $1.5 billion bid to buy EMPIRE — “Most believe Ghazi is not a seller, but big checks have changed other people’s minds,” the report needled — Ghazi was furious and sent a staffwide email emphatically denying it, according to multiple employees. A week after EMPIRE’s YouTube event, he was even more publicly defiant, insisting while onstage in October at the industry conference Trapital Summit in Los Angeles: “I’m not for sale. Period. I am dead serious. I am living my purpose. There’s no price on that.”
It’s a frustrating topic for Ghazi, not least because it implies a fundamental misunderstanding of who he is and why he does what he does. “You don’t understand — I just don’t care about money,” he says. “It’s not my motivation.” Instead he talks about the principles instilled in him by his father, a Palestinian refugee who brought his family to America to put them in a position to control their own paths if they were willing to work for it. “I don’t see myself ever working for somebody else,” Ghazi continues. “I’d rather retire. There’s no price for my autonomy. It’s the greatest gift to a leader.”
Still, his insistence on sole ownership — and the sheer force of personality that he exudes in binding the company together — has left enough of an opening for industry analysts to wonder about succession planning, about what might happen to the company when, or if, Ghazi decides to hang it up. He freely admits he won’t stick around as a hands-on CEO forever, but also that EMPIRE is about legacy for him and that he values legacy and autonomy — the freedom to chart his destiny — more than anything else. In that sense, he’ll never truly leave EMPIRE, even as the rumor mill keeps churning. “I always admired athletes who retired when they were on top. I want to be at the top of my executive game when I quit,” he says. “I don’t want to be the guy who hung on for too long. I’m already the owner, so I could still hang around as a chairman, but I don’t need to hang around as the guy running s–t day to day.”
Austin Hargrave
But that’s not happening anytime soon. In the past six months alone, EMPIRE has expanded into Australia, East Asia and South Africa and completed the acquisition of Top Drawer Merch to bring another monetization vertical into the fold for its artists. Ghazi is engaged in the industrywide debates surrounding superfandom revenue and is constantly seeking new opportunities; the two weeks prior to this driving tour, he had been in Tokyo, Seoul, Beijing, Cambodia, Singapore, Bali, San Francisco, Paris, Marrakesh, Singapore again, Seoul again, Las Vegas, Seattle and back to San Francisco: taking label meetings, shooting music videos, meeting with DSP partners, attending conferences and awards shows and directing work on the EMPIRE studios here, with the goal of expanding the company’s reach step by step — taking the stairs rather than the elevator, as he puts it.
“The goal is to be in all the places that make sense for us culturally,” he says. “Is the music interesting? Is the culture interesting? Holistically, how does it play with our DNA? What’s the cost of acquisition and retention? Do I like the music here? But the initial fuel is the passion; then, from there, start to figure it out.”
Joice Street is mobbed. The Nob Hill alley, around the corner from the Bruce Lee mural that adorns the wall next to the Chinese Historical Society of America Museum, is the location this afternoon for P-Lo’s “Player’s Holiday ’25” video shoot, and dozens of people, including some of the Bay’s biggest rappers — Saweetie, G-Eazy and Larry June among them — are filming on a basketball court on the roof of a building overlooking the city. Ghazi is there, not just because EMPIRE is distributing the song, which will appear on P-Lo’s album with Golden State Entertainment, but because he’s scheduled to make a cameo in the video.
Ghazi spends more than an hour on the rooftop, where he seemingly knows everyone — and everyone wants a minute of his time. But soon he heads back to the studio to return to work. The vibe there is low-key, but a typical cross section of artists and creatives are at work: Nai Barghouti, an Israeli-born Palestinian singer, flautist and composer, is in Studio C, working on songs for her new album before heading back out on tour; two producers from dance label dirtybird, which EMPIRE acquired in 2022, are in the live room, “ideating the next big hit of 2025”; a regional Mexican group sits on the patio outside, figuring out songs on a guitar; YS Baby from EMPIRE-owned viral content aggregator HoodClips (which has over 11 million followers) is talking about the podcasts he has lined up. Later, Japanese rapper-singer Yuki Chiba — whose 2024 collaboration with Megan Thee Stallion, “Mamushi,” reached No. 36 on the Hot 100 — takes over Studio A, where he plays a slew of songs slated for upcoming projects and discusses rollout plans.
EMPIRE may have gotten its start in Bay Area hip-hop and made waves on the front lines of West African Afrobeats, but these days it embodies the global outlook that Ghazi always envisioned; Shaboozey’s “A Bar Song (Tipsy),” after all, is a country crossover hit out of Nashville that reached No. 1 in 10 countries. EMPIRE partnered with Nashville-based indie promotion company Magnolia Music to handle its country radio campaign, and from there the single branched out to other formats, ultimately becoming the first song in history to go top 10 on four different Billboard airplay charts: country, top 40, adult top 40 and rhythmic. And Ghazi sees himself as a global citizen helping people around the world — “creating microeconomies” within the territories EMPIRE operates, he says — not just within the confines of the Bay Area.
Shaboozey and Ghazi at the 2024 CMA After Party.
Becca Mitchell
He is also the highest-profile Palestinian executive in the music business and has openly condemned the humanitarian crisis that has erupted during Israel’s war in Gaza. His Instagram profile picture is the Palestinian flag; he regularly shares videos and photos decrying the violence against civilians; he helped facilitate the remix to Macklemore’s track dedicated to Palestine, “Hind’s Hall,” and went to Seattle in October to support the rapper at a Palestinian benefit concert, despite Macklemore not being an EMPIRE artist. He stresses that he does this on a personal level, explicitly not to politicize the company. When asked if he feels a responsibility of sorts, given his profile, to help raise awareness about that humanitarian crisis, he simply says, “I feel like I want to be proud of the man in the mirror.” (“He’s Palestinian and I’m Israeli; we shared our great pain and anxiety over what’s happening in the Middle East,” says Cohen, who also calls Ghazi “a genuinely good guy.”)
But despite its global activities, EMPIRE has stayed focused on its local roots — and is continuing to strengthen them, too. In 2020, it started putting on the cultural festival 415 Day (which takes its name from a San Francisco area code) and has gotten further into live events through its deepening relationship with Another Planet. The San Francisco studio has become not just the creative center of EMPIRE’s operations but also an event venue for the city’s music and civic communities. And in a massive move in January, EMPIRE purchased the 100,000-square-foot historic Financial District building One Montgomery, built in 1908, for $24.5 million, according to The San Francisco Business Times; Ghazi plans to move the company headquarters there after renovating it. Eventually, One Montgomery could become the San Francisco version of the Capitol Tower that Ghazi envisioned all those years ago.
“There have been so many times that people have told him he couldn’t do something, and then he was able to do it, that it gave him all the fire and was the catalyst for him to be the person he is today,” says Moody Jones, GM of EMPIRE Dance, who has been with the company since 2018. “They told him he was crazy to have a music company in San Francisco; that he would never compete with a major; that he would never get out of hip-hop; that he would never open up a studio. They told him San Francisco would never be cool again. And every single time he was able to show them that, ‘No, I’m right.’ ”
That all builds into the larger cultural role Ghazi is playing in his city and beyond. Lurie just announced the inaugural San Francisco Music Week, a celebration of the city’s local music industry culminating in an industry summit with a keynote conversation with Ghazi. And while he says he’s not interested in San Francisco politics, he wants to be consulted from an advisory perspective on cultural events in the city and try to bring in more events beyond just music — Art Basel San Francisco is one that he has begun to advise on, though that project is currently on pause. He has worked with the city and the NBA on a slew of events around NBA All-Star Week and discusses the Super Bowl and World Cup in 2026 as further opportunities to showcase all that San Francisco has to offer. “For events like the NBA All-Star Game, Super Bowl LX, the World Cup, we get to show off all the greatness here, and Ghazi and EMPIRE and the artists they represent are part and parcel to what makes San Francisco so great,” Lurie says. “We need more Ghazis.”
Ahead of All-Star Week, he has made a series of moves and partnerships with the NBA and the Golden State Warriors, including with the game NBA 2K25, with which EMPIRE partnered for a first-of-its-kind deal that includes a limited-edition vinyl box set with 13 tracks by EMPIRE artists; EMPIRE artists on the game soundtrack; and Ghazi and some of EMPIRE’s artists scanned into the game itself. At the studio in September, he sat for an interview with NBA 2KTV host Alexis Morgan — who, to Ghazi’s delight, is also from the Bay Area — that will be part of NBA 2K25’s bonus features.
Ghazi (right) with NBA 2KTV’s Alexis Morgan.
Courtesy of 2K
But ultimately, it is all about the music. Shaboozey’s career is now in a superstar arc, and “A Bar Song (Tipsy)” will soon become EMPIRE’s fifth record with more than 10 million equivalent units in the United States according to Luminate, with over 1 billion on-demand streams. A few years ago, EMPIRE was flying largely under the radar, but Ghazi now has it at the top of its game, with a track record that speaks volumes in an industry based just as much on history as on what’s coming next.
“You always learn, all the time; you’re always adapting to what’s going on around you,” he says. “And sometimes you can’t believe how far you’ve come. But that only inspires you to go further.”
This story appears in the Feb. 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.
As the clock strikes 10 on a chilly January night in Atlanta, Travis Scott, the King of Rage, is preparing to unleash a performance that will take his career to new heights — literally. Scott has already notched a dizzying number of accomplishments for a modern hip-hop star: four No. 1 albums on the Billboard 200, the highest-grossing tour ever by a solo rap act, the first rapper to sell out Los Angeles’ SoFi Stadium. But tonight, perched on the roof of Mercedes-Benz Stadium and not much more than 10 feet from its edge, he’s dreaming even bigger.
As his latest song, “4X4” — which became his fifth Billboard Hot 100 No. 1 when it debuted atop the chart in early February — pulsates through the speakers, La Flame rubs his hands together before launching into the pretape of his halftime performance for the College Football Playoff National Championship. At the cue of video director Gibson Hazard, rap’s ultimate daredevil bounces around fearlessly, savoring the thrill and danger of the moment.
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The 33-year-old native Houstonian, who was once a ball boy for the NBA’s Houston Rockets, has love for his hometown’s sports culture — and its accompanying theatrics — that runs as deep as his passion for its unique strain of Southern hip-hop. As a teen sitting in his grandfather’s kitchen, he watched the nail-biter 14-inning game-three battle between his beloved Houston Astros and the Chicago White Sox in the 2005 World Series from his grandfather’s kitchen (the Astros lost that game, and the series in four). He recalls witnessing Rockets legend Tracy McGrady’s jaw-dropping 13 points in 33 seconds against the San Antonio Spurs in 2004. Scott’s own unyielding spirit for captivating audiences on the biggest stages was born in these historic sports moments. “I was a ball boy for the Rockets when T-Mac was about to leave [the team in the late 2000s] and he was kind of fizzling out,” Scott remembers as he scarfs down a Domino’s pizza slice the day after recording his fiery performance. “I always wanted him to win.”
While Scott may no longer be chasing rebounds inside Houston’s Toyota Center, his bond with sports is stronger than ever, fueled by his competitive streak and relentless drive to be as legendary as his superstar athlete friends Tom Brady and James Harden. “12 is one of my favorites,” Scott says, referencing Brady’s former jersey number. “I go to him when it comes to achieving the highest level of greatness. I have a couple of people I can name [when I need advice], but 12 is somebody I can turn to when it comes to that because time and time again, when it comes to having to go and get it, I’ve seen him do it.”
Over the last couple of years, Scott has mounted the type of high-stakes comeback that might make a Hall of Fame athlete take notice. In October 2021, a deadly crowd surge killed 10 people at his Astroworld Festival in Houston, throwing the decorated rapper’s career into jeopardy. After numerous lawsuits were filed against Scott, a grand jury declined to indict him on criminal charges; the families of the 10 victims reached settlements with him and Live Nation. But in 2023, as a dark cloud still loomed over him, Scott returned. His album Utopia, delivered that July, debuted at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 with an impressive 496,000 album-equivalent units, according to Luminate, and landed 19 songs on the Billboard Hot 100. And the star-laden album featuring Beyoncé, Drake, SZA and The Weeknd wasn’t just a blockbuster hit — it catalyzed Scott’s post-Astroworld comeback.
Martine Rose top, jacket and pants; Oakley boots.
Gunner Stahl
That October, Scott launched his Circus Maximus Tour, an interactive spectacle where he let his imagination run free. He created an amusement park-like atmosphere where he invited fans onstage to get on actual rides (“Amusement parks, to me, are the illest things ever,” he says), and his fire-breathing performances showcased the same audacity that made him the poster child for rage rap when he first rose to fame in the mid-2010s.
It wasn’t just the biggest tour of Scott’s career: With $209.3 million grossed from 1.7 million tickets sold, according to Billboard Boxscore, the 76-date trek became the highest-selling outing ever by a solo rapper. Stateside, Scott played mostly arenas — save New Jersey’s MetLife Stadium and his history-making SoFi Stadium gig — but his overseas fan base propelled him to stadiums in South America, Oceania and Europe, where he performed massive shows in cities including London, Milan and Cologne, Germany, selling more than 71,000 tickets at the lattermost. Scott and his longtime manager, David Stromberg, say they want to conquer the Asian touring market next.
“It’s always a challenge to create a new chapter of what the live shows look like,” says Stromberg, who has worked with Scott for over 10 years. “We thought that the [2018-19] Astroworld Tour was our highest peak. We were in arenas and now we’re in stadiums.” In April, Scott — who was slated to headline Coachella in April 2020 before the pandemic forced the festival’s cancellation — will appear for a performance there billed as “designing the desert.” And, Stromberg says, “With Coachella coming up, we need to figure out a new chapter.”
While Scott’s disruptive spirit has propelled him to chart and touring glory, his savvy on the branding front has drawn attention from a variety of major companies. Brands such as Nike, McDonald’s, Audemars Piguet and Epic Games have launched significant partnerships with Cactus Jack, Scott’s label and lifestyle boutique. Athletes like Aaron Judge, Jayson Tatum and Jayden Daniels have sported Scott’s Nike sneaker line. And last July, Scott got the ultimate sports co-sign when Michael Jordan wore a pair of unreleased Travis Scott x Air Jordan sneakers to the beach. After watching Cactus Jack flourish, Fanatics CEO Michael Rubin partnered with Scott, popular retro sports brand Mitchell & Ness and Lids to launch a merch line called Jack Goes Back to College featuring a range of college-themed apparel and accessories.
“Normally, someone will come to work with us, give feedback and we’ll do all the work,” Rubin says. “With Travis, it’s 100% driven by him, and that’s because he knows his fans and the market, and he has such a strong feel for what the market wants. [When we collaborated], he completely designed the products 100% on his own. He has such great vision and product skills that I’ve never seen before.
“I’ve seen so many people in this world, but the fandom and loyalty he has from his fans is truly extraordinary,” Rubin continues. “Someone could offer him a billion dollars, and if it’s not brand-right and he doesn’t feel it’s right for his customers, he will not do it. That’s why he’s so careful about everything that he does. He wants to make sure it’s the right product and the right vision. Travis may be the most authentic person I know. He’ll never sell out.”
Gunner Stahl
Scott and Rubin promoted the Jack Goes Back to College line with a 36-hour college campus tour, making stops at Louisiana State University, the University of Southern California and the University of Texas, where they spoke to the schools’ athletic teams and even worked behind campus bookstore registers to sell their products. Throughout, Scott was everywhere — giving motivational speeches, showing up for an impromptu performance (at LSU local bar Friends) and joining football practice at UT, where he even helped with punt returns. And he’s eager to do all that again and more.
“When I was talking to Trav at the National Championship game [this year], he was like, ‘All right, what four schools are we doing next year? We’re out. We did three last year; we’re doing four next year,’ ” Rubin says.
His passion goes beyond the gridiron: Two decades after watching the Astros in the World Series, he’ll host current Astros players — and a slew of other current and former baseball and football greats, along with music stars like Metro Boomin, Teyana Taylor and Swae Lee — at the Cactus Jack Foundation’s HBCU Celebrity Softball Classic in Houston on Feb. 13.
Though Scott was largely consumed with touring and further building Cactus Jack over the past year, he returned his focus to music last August, when he released his acclaimed second mixtape, 2014’s Days Before Rodeo, to streaming platforms. Initially a free download — and a steppingstone in Scott’s career — the project bowed at No. 2 on the Billboard 200 with 361,000 album-equivalent units, falling 1,000 units short of Sabrina Carpenter’s Short n’ Sweet. A month later, Days Before Rodeo rocketed to No. 1 after Scott offered vinyl editions of the project online, securing him the fourth No. 1 album of his career.
“When I was coming up, people always looked at me [strangely],” Scott says. “I don’t know. I’d always hear a little s–t of ‘Is it rap? Is it this? Is it just a vibe?’ I’m pushing hip-hop. It’s 50 years old but still has time to stretch. I feel like, ‘OK, I’m leading the new charge of what the next 50 years of this s–t is going to be like.’ ”
Prada top, jacket, pants and shoes; Oakley sunglasses; Eliantte jewelry.
Gunner Stahl
Like sports, music is ultracompetitive. How do you stay at the top of your game?
A lot of people say I’m at the top of my game all the time, but I’m still striving to get to that point. I could see it in spurts or moments like, “Oh, this is ill!” It’s like a full 360 universe I’m trying to connect, but I’m always inspired, and I think that’s what keeps me motivated — not just content. I’m always working toward the next thing. It’s not like in a bad way where you don’t sit and enjoy, but I always want to push the limits. I feel like there’s always been random lulls that come my way that try to suppress the sound, and I feel like I’ve always been trying to take one foot forward every day to break down those barriers.
I feel like you’re the Stephen Curry of rap because you revolutionized hip-hop and broke boundaries for the new generation, sort of like how Steph changed the game with the three-point shot. Can you see that?
Yeah. I probably wouldn’t have said it out loud or anything like that. I like to believe the things I’m doing are pushing music and where things can go. With Steph, he changed the game in a wild way. Whether it’s good or bad, everyone’s shooting from half-court and s–t, which is dope as f–k. It’s just revolutionizing the game and showing there’s no limits to what you can do as a player. Having the lines, literally, lines saying this is the limit and [saying], “Nah, f–k it. I’m shooting from [half-court]. I’m going to do what I have to do to get this W.” And not being content — you see, he works on his craft every day. I don’t think anyone’s ever going to catch [his] three-point record, and he’s still working on his craft. “How can I evolve? How can I get better as I’m getting older?” It’s dope.
You partnered with the WWE and escorted Jey Uso at L.A.’s Intuit Dome during Monday Night Raw on Netflix. What was that experience like?
The energy out there was crazy. I was telling [Superstar] Triple H, “This s–t is wild.” For my shows, I try to create that maximum energy level and have [the audience] feel like they could reach their highest level of ecstasy — the feeling of being happy and free. Not to sound so trippy, just see that enjoyment. When I’m performing, it’s the energy of what a hardcore match can be. [Popular WWE-style match] Money in the Bank — ladders, tables and chairs — anything. It’s like, “Ah, this s–t is ill.” I can’t wait for this year [to get in the ring]. I’m training to get ready for this. It’s going to be some dope s–t.
Gunner Stahl
If you do get in the ring, who’s your first opponent?
I’m going to leave that under wraps right now. I’m a little bit more of a mystery. I might pop up and start tearing s–t up. I’m more of a “Let me get into that hardcore s–t [type of guy].” It’s heavy. [WWE Superstar] Mick Foley-type heavy. You never know where you about to go lay some smack on a motherf–ker. I might pop out and start some s–t.
How has your brand, Cactus Jack, become so dominant?
We try to be ourselves and be organic. I’m still a fan of fandom. [I have] that sort of understanding [that] it’s not just me — got my guys Don [Toliver], Sheck [Wes], Bizzle [Chase B]. You know, all of us who make it a whole family. Organically, just being us and creating those experiences, that’s what I love to do. Whether I’m collaborating with someone or working with someone and trying to push design, it goes hand in hand, [whether we’re] tailoring beats or tailoring clothes.
On your college tour, you visited three different campuses in 36 hours. What is it about the college energy that you enjoy the most?
When I was in college [at the University of Texas at San Antonio], it was lit, and it’s still lit. I feel like every kid should go to college whether you’re trying to do the books or not, just for the experience: the [socializing], community and just riding for something [is great]. School pride is amazing. You go to these games and see 100,000 people in the same color cheering loud for the people that’s repping. It’s just lit.
You’ve said you want to go to Harvard University and possibly study architecture. Is that still something you hope to pursue?
It’s crazy. The construction game is the most frustrating thing in the world. Me traveling, seeing modernism, different houses, structures and things, when you go to different countries and see how people create a structural design with literally nothing, people can put up structural places in shorter times than we do in the U.S. And even just creating things from scratch, the engineering and planning of things takes forever. I just got a true passion for it and I always want to create, so I need to learn this s–t. I’ve always wanted to learn just the engineering part and technical aspects of it. I can draw ideas and create 3D renderings all day, but how do I physically get this to work and put it together? It’s a tedious process.
You and Michael Rubin have a good relationship. How has he helped you push the Cactus Jack brand forward?
I watch how he runs a multibillion-dollar empire and try to be hands-on as much as possible. Just be active. The call-and-response. Get to it on an everyday basis. To be able to run something on that level, you have to go hard at it, through the good and the bad. You could have problems, but it’s how you respond — just trying to stay connected. You could be the higher-up, disconnected and have people run it for you. Try to be as hands-on as you can and as multifaceted as you can. I apply that to what I got going on.
Gunner Stahl
How do you maintain high intensity and inspiration as you spread that energy into different areas, like music and merch?
It all goes hand in hand. Since day one, I’ve had that mindset. The key to it all is having a solid team and people understanding what you’re trying to achieve. They connect with you and have that same drive. Every day is a new day, but as you get through it, you learn so many things. I’ve been in this for a minute and think as we grow, we learn so much s–t. I try to stay firm on it. Remind people what we’re trying to work toward and this is what we have to achieve. It’s not easy. If I can be up early, we all can. Just having that discipline. I just got a good support system. [Without them], I’d be f–king drowning out here.
Your 7-year-old daughter Stormi’s favorite song is Days Before Rodeo’s “Mamacita.” How does it feel to see not only her but also younger fans appreciate your older work like that and your debut mixtape, 2013’s Owl Pharaoh?
I love it, man. F–k! I still listen to that album, too. It just reassures me that I’m not f–king crazy. This s–t hard. That’s how I know that Stormi’s turnt. Out of all the songs, that song’s turnt and she loves it. Her new favorite song is now “Thank God.” I don’t know if it’s because she’s on it. She didn’t know she was on it until she heard the album. She’s like, “That’s me!” She knows every word. It’s cool to see even the youth is tapped in on that level. It’s ill. It gives me a reason to wake up.
Your debut album, Rodeo, turns 10 this year. Do you have special memories from that era?
I do. I got a lot. Rodeo is lit. The only thing I wish from that album, and I probably should do for the 10-year anniversary, is that the action figure would come out on a USB and not a CD. That’s the main thing and it never happened. That album creation was everything for me: touring, working on the album and being at Mike Dean’s crib all day. Rest in peace, Meeboob [Dean’s late dog]. Man, we love that dog. It was lit, man.
What has been your own biggest championship moment in your career?
When I was walking through SoFi and had my little ones with me, they got on the stage. I remember my [3-year-old] son, [Aire] — he can talk — he was like, “Yo, who’s performing here?” My daughter was like, “Daddy!” My son was like, “All these people.” I’m like, “Yeah, it’s going to be kind of turnt.” He’s like, “For real?” Stormi’s like, “Yeah.” She’s like describing the show. There’s all this pyro and people are going crazy. I was like, “Yeah, this is tight.” I always wanted to do stadiums, and it was kind of cool to have the little ones understand and know what I’m doing. They were amped for the show. So that was lit.
How do you define greatness at this point in your career?
I think it’s the ability to wake up and still go hard at this. Still have the drive to go hard and not give up on what you set out to do from the beginning. That’s greatness for me. Achieving that level no matter how many times you could be shunned from a Grammy or whatever the f–k could happen. It’s waking up every day to be like, “There’s still somebody out there listening and somebody that cares.” Let’s go hard for that and yourself. I really care about that — it keeps me going.
You had your Super Bowl moment in 2019, performing with Maroon 5 at halftime, but that wasn’t a full-fledged Travis Scott production. Is that still on your bucket list?
Hell yeah, man. Yeah, tell the [NFL] to hit me up. They know who to call. Word.
Gunner Stahl
Where are you heading musically on your next album?
I want to say the title right now, but people aren’t going to understand it. I have some more tweaking to do.
Fair. But where are you going sonically?
I feel like for Utopia, I was striving to push things to a high level. I’m still reaching for that. I’ve been having so much fun with music and s–t that I think it’s cool to be artistic and have fun with it. I’ve been producing more, making a lot of the album, and going in on that level is making it more exciting. I can’t wait, actually.
At this point in your career, is there anyone left that you want to get into the studio with?
Yeah, it’s this band called Khruangbin I want to work with. This might be crazy, but I would love to get Taylor Swift or Sabrina Carpenter on a hook.
Why Taylor or Sabrina?
Because I have some ill ideas.
You and Carpenter were going head-to-head last year on the charts when her album beat Days Before Rodeo in its opening week.
Charts, shmarts, man. Who measures that? Her album’s cool. Days Before Rodeo is 10 years old. It all works.
With everything you’ve been through over the last few years to now having the biggest tour ever for a solo rap artist, do you feel vindicated that your fans still support you?
I love the fans and I’m appreciative, but I’m still striving to prove what I’m here to do, what I mean and what I stand for, especially when it comes to performing. To the fans, I feel like a lot of times, because I don’t do a lot of interviews or talk a lot, Travis Scott can be misunderstood. What I care for can get misunderstood. But every day, I’m going to strive to show that greatness.
This story appears in the Feb. 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.
Music venues come in many different shapes and sizes, but one thing the best have in common is the energy they help create before a show starts. Whether fans were lucky enough to catch rising superstar Chappell Roan at the 1,800-capacity Cain’s Ballroom in Tulsa, Okla., or witness Luis Miguel’s record-breaking tour at Mexico City’s GNP Seguros Stadium, Billboard’s 2025 top music venues were key components of the year’s most magical concert moments.
From a one-of-a-kind exosphere to $350 million renovations, Blue Ribbon fried chicken to Texas barbecue or sustainable initiatives to expert sightlines, factors large and small contribute to a building’s greatness. Here, Billboard honors 28 of the world’s best venues, classified by region, capacity and other attributes such as food and beverage and “wow factor.” The list was determined by Billboard’s reporting and editorial staff. Gross and attendance figures span from Oct. 1, 2023, to Sept. 30, 2024, as reported by Billboard Boxscore.
Top West Coast Stadium: Allegiant Stadium (Las Vegas)65,000 capacity
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Opened in 2020 near the Las Vegas Strip, the $1.9 billion Allegiant Stadium is a visual and technological marvel with its sleek black glass facade, retractable lanai doors and translucent UV-resistant roof that offers a first of its kind climate-controlled environment. The home of the NFL’s Las Vegas Raiders has hosted sellout shows by Taylor Swift, BTS and The Rolling Stones — along with WrestleMania and Super Bowl LVIII — and offers premium lounges, 127 luxury suites and a massive, 26,000-square-foot field-level club. Grossing $119.2 million from just 15 shows, Allegiant ranked as the top U.S. stadium on Boxscore’s Year-End Top 25 Stadiums chart.
Top Central U.S. Stadium: Soldier Field (Chicago)61,000 capacity
Nestled along Chicago’s picturesque lakefront, Soldier Field is a widely beloved landmark that celebrated its 100th anniversary last year as the home of the NFL’s Chicago Bears. Accented by its iconic Greek-style colonnades and glass-and-steel upper structure, Soldier Field is known for excellent sightlines and a rich rock’n’roll history. It has hosted concerts by The Rolling Stones, The Who and, in 1977, the famed “Super Bowl of Rock” that featured Ted Nugent, Lynyrd Skynyrd, REO Speedwagon, Journey and .38 Special. In the last year, Soldier Field brought in over $80 million across eight performances, according to Boxscore.
Top East Coast Stadium: MetLife Stadium (East Rutherford, N.J.)82,000 capacity
There’s nothing bigger in the New York market than MetLife Stadium, home to two NFL teams — the New York Jets and the New York Giants — as well as some of the region’s biggest concerts. Opened in 2010, MetLife is known for its striking exterior facade of aluminum louvers that change colors to represent the home team, as well as the 50,000-square-foot Great Hall pre-event gathering space, cutting-edge video boards and fully immersive audio systems that ensure every performance — including 2023 shows from Bruce Springsteen, and P!nk and The Rolling Stones last year — is top-notch. Last year, the venue grossed more than $66 million from six shows.
Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band onstage at MetLife Stadium in East Rutherford, N.J., in 2023.
Rob DeMartin
Top International Stadium: GNP Seguros Stadium (Mexico City)65,000 capacity
GNP Seguros Stadium (formerly Foro Sol) crowned Boxscore’s 2024 Top 25 Stadiums chart with 26 shows grossing more than $135 million. Mexico’s biggest stadium has a functional design and open-air structure that blends seamlessly into the sprawling Magdalena Mixhuca Sports City complex surrounding it. GNP Seguros offers unobstructed sightlines for both general admission and premium seating areas, as well as expertly designed acoustics for legendary artists like Paul McCartney, Metallica, Luis Miguel, The Killers and Bruno Mars, who all graced its stage last year after it reopened under the GNP Seguros banner in August. Since its opening in 1993, the venue has also been home to the Formula 1 Mexican Grand Prix and Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez circuit.
Top U.S. Festival Site: Double JJ Resort (Rothbury, Mich.)50,000 capacity
The sprawling landscape and rustic charm of Double JJ Resort are ideal for Electric Forest festival, held annually at the nearly 90-year-old site. The architecture of Double JJ Resort is rooted in its heritage as a working ranch with wooden barns, log cabins and natural beauty seamlessly integrated into the festival experience. The ranch’s layout includes multiple stages where attendees can enjoy intimate sets or dance to electrifying beats — in 2024, provided by the likes of Pretty Lights and John Summit — in expansive open spaces. Guests can also enjoy activities like horseback riding, golfing, water parks or hiking the resort’s lengthy trail system.
Top International Festival Site: De Schorre Park (Boom, Belgium)150,000-plus capacity
The expansive city park dotted with green alcoves, scenic lakes and rolling hills is home to one of the biggest annual EDM festivals, the world-famous Tomorrowland, which in 2024 featured acts including Swedish House Mafia and Dom Dolla. The site is remarkable for its dedication to detail — every installation and accoutrement at De Schorre is integrated with nature, whether it be a small wooden bridge or one of the seven friendly giant troll sculptures hidden among the trees. Thanks to its open layout and strategically positioned stages, fans can enjoy an immersive concert experience from virtually any direction.
Top West Coast Arena: Intuit Dome (Inglewood, Calif.)18,000 capacity
Opened in August with two nights of Bruno Mars, the new home to the NBA’s Los Angeles Clippers stands out in the crowded L.A. market with its distinctive diagrid exterior comprising thousands of white composite pieces, snapped together like a puzzle to provide both structural support and aesthetic appeal. Each exterior piece is made of a unique chemical formula, tailored to draw upon Southern California’s year-round climate for natural heating and cooling. The dome hosted 20 concerts before the Clippers even started their 2024-25 season and is already set for performances from Rod Wave, Mary J. Blige, Los Tucanes de Tijuana and Keith Urban this year.
Top Central U.S. Arena: United Center (Chicago)23,500 capacity
Nicknamed “The House That Jordan Built,” United Center is best known for the accomplishments of NBA Hall of Famer Michael Jordan. Opened in 1993, the arena is a Midwestern powerhouse, famous for its sleek facade and the commanding presence of its massive arches. Still home to the Chicago Bulls, United Center hosted more than 50 non-NBA events in the past year, placing the arena at No. 8 on Boxscore’s 2024 Year-End Top 50 Venues (15,000-plus capacity) chart with $123.8 million grossed.
Top East Coast Arena: Madison Square Garden (New York)19,500 capacity
The world’s most famous arena has long dominated North America as the top-grossing arena on the continent, attracting millions of music and sports fans each year to Midtown Manhattan. While the Garden has been relocated and renovated throughout the decades, its power and allure will always draw from its location at the center of the country’s largest media market. According to Boxscore’s 2024 year-end data, MSG sold 2 million tickets across 145 shows and grossed nearly $300 million, as it welcomed some of the biggest tours of the year, including Madonna, Nicki Minaj, Olivia Rodrigo, Aventura, Pearl Jam, Charli xcx and Troye Sivan, Sabrina Carpenter and Billie Eilish, while Billy Joel concluded his decadelong residency in July.
Top Canadian Arena: Scotiabank Arena (Toronto)19,800 capacity
Located in the heart of Canada’s most populous city, Scotiabank Arena has been an integral part of Toronto’s cityscape since its 1999 opening. Despite having two tenant sports teams (the NBA’s Toronto Raptors and the NHL’s Toronto Maple Leafs), the arena still held more than 75 shows — drawing over 1 million fans and grossing $120 million in ticket sales — during its 25th-anniversary year, which helped it rank as the highest-grossing Canadian arena on Boxscore’s 2024 Year-End Top 50 Venues (15,000-plus capacity) chart. As it prepares for the next quarter-century, Scotiabank Arena is undergoing a $350 million “reimagination project” that is expected to conclude this summer.
Top Caribbean Arena: Coliseo de Puerto Rico (San Juan)18,500 capacity
The Coliseo de Puerto Rico José Miguel Agrelot, commonly known as the Coliseo de Puerto Rico, has been bringing music to the U.S. territory since 2004 while also developing the next generation of reggaetón, Latin and salsa stars. In 2024, the arena hosted events with Eladio Carrión, Bad Bunny, Carín León, Feid, Ana Gabriel, Camila, Jerry Rivera and Luis Miguel — whose latest world tour made history as the highest-grossing Latin outing in Boxscore history ($330 million). But the landmark venue also provides a stage for acts beyond Latin genres and welcomed artists including Culture Club, Louis Tomlinson, Evanescence and Travis Scott in 2024.
Luis Miguel at Coliseo de Puerto Rico in San Juan in 2024.
Christian Miranda/Fronthouse Media
Top International Arena: O2 Arena (London)20,000 capacity
The O2 Arena is an annual presence on Boxscore’s Year-End Top Venues (15,000-plus capacity) chart. For 2024, the building hosted more than 200 concerts, grossing $261 million with 2.6 million tickets sold. The government-owned, AEG-managed arena held the No. 3 position in 2024 (behind Sphere and Madison Square Garden) in large part thanks to the United Kingdom’s demand for concerts and London’s own reputation as a hub for European travel. Originally built as the Millennium Dome in 2000, the structure was turned into a multipurpose site, retaining its iconic design while integrating cutting-edge sound and lighting systems to further enhance top-tier live shows.
Top West Coast Amphitheater: The Greek Theatre (Los Angeles)5,900 capacity
Situated inside Los Angeles’ scenic Griffith Park, this storied outdoor venue features a striking blend of classical architecture — including columns inspired by ancient Greek amphitheaters — and abundant greenery. Owned by the city of Los Angeles and managed by Legends Hospitality, the Greek is open to promoters of all backgrounds and offers an iconic stage for acts that have graduated from clubs and are on their way to selling out arenas. The amphitheater offers curated, high-end culinary options, while fans can take in more than 95 years of live-music history that includes performances from Frank Sinatra and Fleetwood Mac and contemporary acts like Billie Eilish and Harry Styles.
Top Central U.S. Amphitheater: Red Rocks (Morrison, Colo.)9,600 capacity
Red Rocks is the ultimate aspirational venue — countless artists hope to play the idyllic amphitheater inside Red Rocks Park, a National Historic Landmark, and every fan wants to watch their favorite act while surrounded by the beautifully lit red sandstone outcrops. Opened in 1941, Red Rocks is uniquely carved into the Rocky Mountain landscape, surrounded by towering sandstone monoliths that frame the stage and provide near-perfect acoustics. Lucky for both artists and fans, the iconic venue — owned and operated by the city of Denver — has continued to extend its season each year, hosting 199 shows in 2024. With 1.6 million tickets sold, Red Rocks was the highest-grossing outdoor venue with a capacity of 5,000 to 10,000 in 2024, according to Boxscore’s year-end chart.
Top East Coast Amphitheater: Forest Hills Stadium (Queens)14,000 capacity
Forest Hills Stadium, an iconic, Tudor-style venue originally built in 1923 as part of the West Side Tennis Club, has hosted legends including Bob Dylan, Frank Sinatra, Barbra Streisand and The Beatles (for their very first stadium gigs) after opening up for concerts in the 1960s. Harmonizing with the surrounding neighborhood’s charm, the venue with unparalleled sightlines has an intimate atmosphere that makes concerts feel personal for fans. The stadium sat in disuse for decades before promoter Mike Luba helped reopen it in 2013 and has since had performances from the likes of Mumford & Sons, Ed Sheeran and Hozier, who marked a record four-night run of sellouts last June.
Top West Coast Club Or Theater: YouTube Theater (Los Angeles)6,000 capacity
Opened in 2021 as part of the SoFi Stadium and Hollywood Park complex, YouTube Theater is both a physical and symbolic steppingstone into the entertainment campus. Its marquee entrance, illuminated by digital displays, makes an eye-catching first impression on visitors. For the 2024 year-end Boxscore charts, the midsize venue reported over 100 shows with appearances from John Legend, Myke Towers, Ari Lennox, Los Ángeles Azules and Megadeth, as well as the 85th birthday celebration of soul legend Mavis Staples. With over 340,000 tickets sold for a gross of $31.2 million during the 2023-24 chart year, YouTube Theater has managed to thrive in the competitive L.A. market.
Top Central U.S. Club Or Theater: Ryman Auditorium (Nashville)2,300 capacity
Affectionately known as “The Mother Church of Country Music,” the Ryman has been a revered venue since first opening in 1892 as a tabernacle church by Confederate Civil War veterans. Inspired by the Romanesque Revival architectural movement, the Ryman stands out thanks to its unique accents — it features red brick walls, arched windows with stained glass and a distinctive gabled roof. It was formerly the home of the Grand Ole Opry (which moved to a larger venue in 1974) but was left vacant until reopening in 1994 for a new generation of music fans to sit along the restored pews and enjoy performances by artists from Neil Young to Wu-Tang Clan.
Top East Coast Club Or Theater: Brooklyn Paramount (Brooklyn)2,700 capacity
When the Brooklyn Paramount originally opened in 1928, it was called “America’s first movie theater built for sound” and, as it moved through the decades, it welcomed big band jazz, hosted Alan Freed’s rock’n’roll revues and even became a lavish basketball court for Long Island University. Live Nation reopened the renovated theater in March 2024 with inspiration from its 1920s heyday. Stepping into the building is like walking into a time machine, with its intricate stone carvings, Art Deco flair and a marquee that evokes old-school charm. Since March, the venue has welcomed artists from Norah Jones and Jack White to PinkPantheress and Anitta.
Top Residency Venue: The Colosseum At Caesars Palace (Las Vegas)4,100 capacity
Originally built for megastar Céline Dion, The Colosseum at Caesars Palace has become a pinnacle of Las Vegas glamour and a concert residency jewel. The venue’s exterior is an elaborate homage to ancient Roman architecture, while its interior features plush seats, flawless sound and VIP packages that elevate the fan experience. Since its opening in 2003, The Colosseum has hosted residencies by artists including Elton John, Cher, Shania Twain, Mariah Carey, Usher, Garth Brooks and Adele, whose two-year, 100-show Weekends With Adele residency at the venue wrapped in November 2024. The iconic venue boasted nine entries on Billboard’s list of the 25 Biggest Concert Residencies of All Time.
Wow Factor: Sphere (Las Vegas)18,600 capacity
Sphere isn’t just a venue — it’s a jaw-dropping glimpse into the future of live entertainment. Launching in late 2023 with a 40-show U2 residency, which was followed by runs by Phish, Dead & Company and the Eagles, the stars of each show are Sphere’s state-of-the-art 240-foot-tall video screen inside the 366-foot-tall venue and the building-size video “Exosphere” that cloaks the venue and illuminates the desert sky. The one-of-a-kind experience also features haptic seats, sensor controls and a spatial audio system. With just 77 shows, Sphere topped Boxscore’s 2024 Year-End Top 50 Venues chart (15,000-plus capacity) with more than $420 million grossed and 1.3 million tickets sold.
Top Bucket List Venue: Billy Bob’s (Fort Worth, Texas)6,000 capacity
When it comes to live music with a Texas-size dose of character, Billy Bob’s in Fort Worth stands tall as a honky-tonk haven. Located in the historic Fort Worth Stockyards, Billy Bob’s was formerly an open-air barn used to house prize cattle for the Fort Worth Stock Show before they added the tower at its entrance adorned with a giant neon sign depicting the shape of the venue’s home state. The Lone Star site is decorated with hundreds of neon signs and 75 guitars autographed by the artists who have played there, and it features a full-blown rodeo arena with live bull riding. Add killer barbecue and cold beer, and you’ve got the ultimate night out in the heart of Texas.
Billy Bob’s Texas in Fort Worth, Texas.
Robert Gallagher
Best Concept: The Salt Shed (Chicago)5,000 capacity
This industrial-chic venue, housed in a repurposed Morton Salt warehouse along the Chicago River, makes a bold first impression to newcomers. Its iconic rooftop sign — the same as the label from the Morton Salt in your kitchen cabinet — has been preserved, along with the industrial bones of the warehouse updated with expansive glass walls and riverside patios. The Salt Shed complex includes three spaces: the 3,600-capacity indoor shed, the 5,000-capacity outdoor fairgrounds and the Three Top Lounge, which sits at the highest point of the building and offers craft cocktails and specialty food. Since opening in 2022, the Salt Shed has hosted everyone from indie darlings Fleet Foxes to genre-bending stars like André 3000.
Local Favorite, West: Belly Up (Solano Beach, Calif.)600 capacity
At first glance, Belly Up looks like a run-of-the-mill dive bar, which it was for many years before 1976, when owners Dave Hodges and Greg Gilholm made it into the live-music venue it is today. Belly Up focused mainly on rock’n’roll and blues in its early years, welcoming stars like Etta James, Big Mama Thorton and Lightnin’ Hopkins to its tiny stage. Since then, the small concert hall has hosted performances from Jimmy Buffett, George Clinton, Willie Nelson, Mumford & Sons, Mick Fleetwood and Jack Johnson, among many others. What continues to make the venue special after 50 years is the local Southern California talent that has come through, including Maroon 5, No Doubt, Snoop Dogg, Red Hot Chili Peppers and the Black Eyed Peas.
Local Favorite, Southwest: Empire Control Room & Garage (Austin)1,050 capacity
The Empire Control Room & Garage is the embodiment of Austin’s “Live Music Capital of the World” ethos, carefully blending culture and community each night into an unforgettable experience for fans and artists alike. The three-stage venue — the 1,050-capacity Empire Garage, 350-capacity Control Room and 200-capacity, creekside outdoor patio — is situated in Austin’s Red River cultural district, which boasts one of the few remaining contiguous blocks of live-music venues in the United States. Painted predominantly in black, the outside of Empire rocks an edgy aesthetic, setting the tone for what’s inside: a dynamic, distraction-free live-music venue with immersive lighting and a sound system that punches way above its weight.
Keeping It Indie: 9:30 Club (Washington, D.C.)1,200 capacity
The 9:30 Club isn’t just a music venue — it’s a cultural institution. Since opening in 1980, this standing-room-only rock haven exudes cool, beginning with its industrial brick facade and gritty, yet charming interior where every space comes with an incredible view of the stage. Originally located at 930 F St. (hence the name), the venue has thrived since moving in 1996. The iconic club has not only lasted for decades in the D.C. market but also has remained staunchly independent. For the 2024 year-end Boxscore charts, 9:30 Club reported hosting over 260 events with performances from Fontaines D.C., Royel Otis, Shaboozey and Jack White.
Best Food And Music Pairing: Brooklyn Bowl (Brooklyn)600 capacity
The headliners may change each night, but the menu at Brooklyn Bowl has remained consistent for over a decade. The Blue Ribbon fried chicken remains a standout on the elevated food and beverage menu that graces all four Brooklyn Bowl locations across the country (Brooklyn, Las Vegas, Nashville and Philadelphia). Long considered the greatest meal on New York’s rock’n’roll scene, the secret to chef Michael Psilakis’ famed recipe is all about the batter. Each dish includes a specially sourced gluten-free matzo that’s regularly flown in from Israel, giving each bite that perfectly crispy, impossibly savory taste. Paired with an ice-cold Brooklyn Brewery lager and a heap of sauerkraut mashed potatoes, there is no tastier match in music, either front of house or backstage.
Most Unforgettable Experience: Cain’s Ballroom (Tulsa, Okla.)1,800 capacity
On their 2007 track “Easton & Main,” Oklahoma natives Turnpike Troubadours give a shoutout to their local music venue by stating they left their heart “on the Cain’s Ballroom floor soaking up a bourbon stain.” Country and Americana stars have lots of love for the 1920s dance hall that has hosted sets from Hank Williams and “King of Western Swing” Bob Willis, whose regular appearances at the venue helped it earn the moniker “the Carnegie Hall of Western Swing.” The room — which features a spring-loaded dancefloor, a 4-foot neon star and a silver disco ball lighting up the log cabin — still welcomes greats, with recent performances from Charley Crockett, Wilco and Chappell Roan.
Most Environmentally Friendly: Acrisure Arena (Palm Springs, Calif.)11,000 capacity
Acrisure Arena is a climate-friendly oasis in the heart of the California desert. Built with sustainability in mind, the venue is surrounded by drought-resistant plants and sunk 25 feet below grade to limit exposure of its exterior facade to reduce dependence on its HVAC system. It gathers energy from solar panels covering its parking lot, where electric vehicles are prioritized, and sources food and beverage options from local, sustainable vendors to reduce emissions from travel. Located just hours outside of the Los Angeles metro area, Acrisure Arena grossed over $40 million in the last year, attracting top-tier talent including Madonna, Olivia Rodrigo, Stevie Nicks and Fuerza Regida.
This story appears in the Feb. 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.
Music played an outsize role in the nominations for the 97th annual Academy Awards, which were announced Jan. 23 (six days later than originally planned due to the Los Angeles wildfires). Emilia Pérez and Wicked are among the 10 films nominated for best picture — the first time that two musicals have been nominated in that category in the same year since the 1969 ceremony, when Oliver! and Funny Girl both vied for the award. Emilia Pérez received 13 nods (more than any other film this year), while Wicked amassed 10. This is the first time in 60 years that two musicals received 10 or more nominations in the same year. At the 1965 ceremony, Mary Poppins had 13 nods and My Fair Lady had 12.
Plus, three actors from the Bob Dylan biopic A Complete Unknown — Timothée Chalamet (who plays Dylan), Edward Norton (Pete Seeger) and Monica Barbaro (Joan Baez) — were nominated for acting honors. It’s the first time in Oscar history that three actors from a music biopic have been nominated.
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The Oscar telecast is set for March 2. Here’s a closer look at the two music categories.
Best Original Song
Diane Warren is nominated for the eighth year in a row, which ties her with Sammy Cahn for the longest continuous streak of nominations in this category’s 91-year history. Cahn was nominated eight years running from 1955 to 1962. Clément Ducol and Camille are nominated for best original score for Emilia Pérez and have two songs in the running for best original song. They’re the first composers to land three nods in music categories in one year since Justin Hurwitz achieved the same feat with La La Land eight years ago.
“El Mal”Emilia Pérez (Netflix)Music by Clément Ducol and Camille; lyric by Clément Ducol, Camille and Jacques Audiard
Zoe Saldaña takes the lead on this big production number in the film, with an assist from Karla Sofía Gascón. Both are nominated for their performances — Saldaña for best supporting actress and Gascón for best actress.
Audiard, who is nominated for directing Emilia Pérez and for co-writing the lyrics to this song, is only the third person in Oscar history to be nominated in both the directing and original song categories and the first to be so honored in the same year. Leo McCarey and Spike Jonze received their nominations in separate years.
Ducol and Camille are vying to become the sixth romantic couple to win in this category following Alan and Marilyn Bergman, Burt Bacharach and Carole Bayer Sager, Jack Nitzsche and Buffy Sainte-Marie, Glen Hansard and Marketa Irglova, and Robert Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez.
This is the fifth year in a row that one or more non-English-language songs has been nominated in this category. This streak started in 2021 with “Io Sì (Seen)” from The Life Ahead (La Vita Davanti a Se) and continued with “Dos Oruguitas” from Encanto, “Naatu Naatu” from RRR (which won), “Wahzhazhe (A Song for My People)” from Killers of the Flower Moon and now two songs from Emilia Pérez.
“The Journey”The Six Triple Eight (Netflix)Music and lyric by Diane Warren
This inspirational ballad gives Warren her 16th Oscar nomination for best original song — a total equaled by only three other songwriters. Sammy Cahn leads with 26 nods, followed by Johnny Mercer with 18 and Paul Francis Webster, also with 16. (This makes Warren the most-nominated woman in this category, topping the late lyricist Marilyn Bergman, who received 15.)
Making Warren’s tally all the more impressive is that she has rarely been part of an Oscar-magnet film that racked up multiple nominations. “The Journey” is her 11th nominated song from a film that received no other nominations besides hers.
“The Journey” is the 12th of Warren’s best original song contenders that she wrote herself. Only Randy Newman has been nominated with as many songs that he wrote himself. He has been the sole writer of all 13 of his best original song nominees to date.
H.E.R. sings “The Journey” over the end credits to the Tyler Perry film The Six Triple Eight, which stars Kerry Washington. H.E.R. and Warren squared off in this category four years ago, when the R&B star’s “Fight for You” from Judas and the Black Messiah beat Warren’s “Io Sì (Seen)” from The Life Ahead (La Vita Davanti a Se).
“Like a Bird”Sing Sing (A24)Music and lyric by Abraham Alexander and Adrian Quesada
This soulful, midtempo ballad echoes the style of the late folk-rock musician Richie Havens. These are the first Oscar nominations for Alexander and Quesada, who wrote and performed “Like a Bird.”
Quesada has received seven Grammy nominations (but no wins as yet) as a member of Black Pumas. The psychedelic soul band has been nominated in three of the top general-field categories — album and record of the year and best new artist. Quesada previously received two Grammy nods as a member of the Latin funk orchestra Grupo Fantasma, winning best Latin rock, alternative or urban album in 2011 for El Existential.
Alexander is a Texas-based musician, songwriter and guitarist. His nod makes this the eighth year in a row that one or more Black songwriters has been nominated in this category. This represents the longest streak of nominations by Black songwriters in the category’s history.
This was one of three nominations for Greg Kwedar’s film Sing Sing, along with best actor for Colman Domingo and best adapted screenplay. Bryce Dessner of The National scored Sing Sing. He was shortlisted for best original score but not nominated.
“Mi Camino”Emilia Pérez (Netflix)Music and lyric by Camille and Clément Ducol
Selena Gomez sings this sensuous ballad in a sexy scene with co-star Édgar Ramírez. Camille and Ducol had composed several songs for Gomez’s character before the star was cast. Once she was, director Jacques Audiard told the composers he needed another song for the character. They watched the 2022 documentary Selena Gomez: My Mind & Me, which explored the singer’s mental health struggles and inspired them to write “Mi Camino.”
“We didn’t have the opportunity to meet her in person [before writing the song] but did meet her through her documentary,” Ducol told The Los Angeles Times. “Her sensitivity was so engaging and so strong that the song was created very quickly. We wrote it in the space of a few hours. For some songs, like ‘El Mal,’ we had dozens of different versions. ‘Mi Camino’ just came to the surface.”
Ducol and Camille have two of the five nominees in this category. This marks the first time that a songwriter or team of songwriters has had two nominated songs in the same year since 2017, when Justin Hurwitz and the EGOT-winning team of Benj Pasek and Justin Paul had two nominated songs from La La Land.
“Never Too Late”Elton John: Never Too Late (Disney+)Music and lyric by Elton John, Brandi Carlile, Andrew Watt and Bernie Taupin
This is John’s fifth nomination in this category and Taupin’s second. They won five years ago for “(I’m Gonna) Love Me Again” from Rocketman. John first won in this category in 1995 with “Can You Feel the Love Tonight” from The Lion King, which he co-wrote with Tim Rice. If John wins this year, he’ll become just the 10th songwriter in Oscar history — and only the second non-American (following Rice) — to win three or more times in this category. (Fun fact: John has never gone home without an Oscar in the years he has been nominated.)
This is the first Oscar nod for both Carlile and Watt. Watt also earned a nod for song of the year at this year’s Grammys for co-writing the Bruno Mars-Lady Gaga ballad “Die With a Smile.”
John and Carlile perform “Never Too Late” in Elton John: Never Too Late, which was co-directed by R. J. Cutler and John’s husband, David Furnish. During production, Carlile saw an early cut of the film and wrote the first set of lyrics before sending to John to compose. Watt and Taupin later pitched in. This is vying to become the second song from a documentary to win in this category following Melissa Etheridge’s “I Need to Wake Up” from An Inconvenient Truth (2007).
From left: Brandi Carlile, Zoe Saldaña in Emilia Pérez and Kerry Washington in The Six Triple Eight.
Illustration by Nate Kitch
Best Original Score
This category continues to be populated by composers from all over the world. Of this year’s nominees, only Stephen Schwartz and Kris Bowers are Americans. In the last 20 years, the only Americans to win in this category are Michael Giacchino (Up), Trent Reznor (The Social Network, Soul), Justin Hurwitz (La La Land) and Jon Batiste (Soul).
The BrutalistDaniel Blumberg (A24)
This was one of 10 nominations for Brady Corbet’s The Brutalist, which stars Adrien Brody as a Hungarian Jewish architect who survives the Holocaust and builds a new life in America. Brody is nominated for best actor; Guy Pearce and Felicity Jones are up for supporting actor and actress, respectively. The film is also nominated for best picture, cinematography, directing, film editing, production design and original screenplay.
The film is dedicated to the memory of Scott Walker, who scored Corbet’s films The Childhood of a Leader and Vox Lux (the latter also featured music by Sia).
Blumberg, 35, is an English artist, musician, songwriter and composer. In May 2022, he won an Ivor Novello Award for best original film score for The World To Come.
The Brutalist soundtrack opens with an overture in three parts, as Blumberg and Corbet wanted the first 10 minutes of the film to have continuous music. In addition to composing all the music, Blumberg served as producer and recording engineer and played piano, harmonica, keyboards and synthesizer. Pianist John Tilbury is featured on the 11-minute track “Intermission,” while a Brody speech from the film is featured on the track “Monologue.”
ConclaveVolker Bertelmann (Focus Features)
This is the third nomination for the German composer, who performs and records under the name Hauschka. He was first nominated at the 2017 ceremony for Lion, which he scored in tandem with Dustin O’Halloran. He won two years ago for his score to All Quiet on the Western Front. If Bertelmann wins for Conclave, it would mark the quickest return to the podium in this category since Gustavo Santaolalla won back-to-back Oscars in 2006-07 for scoring Brokeback Mountain and Babel.
Conclave director Edward Berger also directed All Quiet on the Western Front. The director and composer are collaborating again on The Ballad of a Small Player, an upcoming psychological thriller drama starring Colin Farrell and Tilda Swinton.
This was one of eight nominations for Conclave. The film’s other nods are for actors Ralph Fiennes and Isabella Rossellini, best picture, costume design, film editing, production design and adapted screenplay. Berger was passed over for a nod for best director.
“The collaboration with Edward Berger is for me a big gift,” Bertelmann, 58, said in a statement, “and allows me to search and discover a lot of possibilities.”
Emilia PérezClément Ducol and Camille (Netflix)
Emilia Pérez is one of only four musicals in Oscar history to land as many as 13 nods. La La Land leads the pack with 14. Chicago and Mary Poppins matched Emilia Pérez’s total of 13.
Ducol and Camille, 43 and 46, respectively, are vying to become the second couple to win in a scoring category following lyricists Alan and Marilyn Bergman, who won in 1984 for their original song score for Yentl, on which they collaborated with Michel Legrand.
Ducol and Camille are also vying to become the first French composers to win in this category since Alexandre Desplat triumphed seven years ago for The Shape of Water. Five other French composers have won in scoring categories: Legrand, Maurice Jarre, Francis Lai, Georges Delerue and Ludovic Bource.
“We are overwhelmed by these nominations,” Ducol and Camille said in a joint statement. “Music and community is our life, and to be nominated in two music categories by our film music community surpasses anything we could have possibly imagined.”
Clockwise from left: Jonathan Bailey in Wicked, Clément Ducol and Camille, Bowers and Adrien Brody in The Brutalist.
Illustration by Nate Kitch
WickedJohn Powell and Stephen Schwartz (Universal)
This is Schwartz’s fourth nomination in a scoring category following three nods in the defunct best original musical or comedy score category for Pocahontas, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and The Prince of Egypt. (The film academy last presented that award in 1999.) Schwartz, 76, is a two-time winner for best original song, for “Colors of the Wind” from Pocahontas (which he co-wrote with Alan Menken) and “When You Believe” from The Prince of Egypt (which he wrote himself).
This is Powell’s second nod in this category following one for the 2010 film How To Train Your Dragon. The Englishman has also composed scores for films such as Face/Off, Drumline and Bolt.
This was one of 10 nominations for Wicked, which has become the top-grossing film ever adapted from a Broadway musical. A sequel, Wicked: For Good, is due in November. Jon M. Chu directed both films.
The Wicked soundtrack album entered the Billboard 200 at No. 2, the highest debut in history for a soundtrack based on a stage musical. Highlights include “Popular” (sung by Ariana Grande, a best supporting actress nominee for her role as Glinda) and “Defying Gravity” (sung by Cynthia Erivo, a best actress nominee for her role as Elphaba, with an assist from Grande).
The Wild RobotKris Bowers (Universal)
This is Bowers’ first scoring nomination. He has been nominated twice in documentary categories — as a director of A Concerto Is a Conversation and as a director-producer of The Last Repair Shop (both collaborations with Ben Proudfoot). The latter film won last year for documentary short film. Bowers, 35, is the first Black composer to be nominated for best original score in four years. At the 2021 ceremony, both Terence Blanchard (Da 5 Bloods) and Jon Batiste (Soul, a collaboration with Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross) were nominated.
This was one of three nominations for Chris Sanders’ The Wild Robot, which is also competing for best animated feature and best sound. The Wild Robot is the first animated film to receive a nod for best original score since Encanto three years ago.
The Wild Robot soundtrack includes “Kiss the Sky,” which was co-written and performed by Maren Morris. It was shortlisted for best original song but wasn’t nominated.
This is Bowers’ first score for a fully animated film. His previous scoring assignments include the live-action dramas Green Book, The United States vs. Billie Holiday, Respect, King Richard, The Color Purple and Bob Marley: One Love.
This story appears in the Feb. 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.
“It’s almost like, an anti-pop song,” María Zardoya, the leader of The Marías, says of “No One Noticed.”
Considering the sighing production, murmured harmonies and somber lyrical tone as Zardoya pleads with a lover for attention and reassurance, “No One Noticed” understandably did not lead the indie-pop band’s second album, Submarine, upon its release last May. Yet in the months since, the song has transformed into a viral breakthrough and the band’s biggest hit to date.
Zardoya says that none of the band members expected “No One Noticed” to become The Marías’ first solo Billboard Hot 100 entry. Its success not only strengthened the band’s commercial footprint — it validated their entire aesthetic.
“It gets you in your feels — it’s pretty emotional, and kind of slow,” she says of “No One Noticed.” “It gives me hope that people are still open to listening to a song over and over that makes them cry.”
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The Marías photographed on January 15, 2025 in New York.
Caroline Tompkins
The enduring hit isn’t the bilingual, Los Angeles-based quartet’s first visit to the Hot 100, previously reaching the chart thanks to Bad Bunny: in 2022, the band was a featured act on “Otro Atardecer,” a buoyant Spanish-language album cut from the superstar’s Grammy-winning album Un Verano Sin Ti that peaked at No. 49. “That was always our No. 1 song on our Spotify page, by far, and we thought it was going to be forever,” says drummer/producer Josh Conway with a laugh. “That was a pretty big pinch-me moment, when ‘No One Noticed’ surpassed it. And now it’s surpassed it by a lot.”
The origin of “No One Noticed” predates the Bad Bunny collaboration — as well as The Marías album that came before Submarine. Zardoya, a Puerto Rico native who grew up in Atlanta, formed The Marías in 2016 when she started writing songs with L.A. native Conway, before recruiting Jesse Perlman on guitar and Edward James on keys. Following a pair of indie EPs and steady work as a touring band, The Marías signed an Atlantic Records deal in early 2021 and released their debut album, Cinema, that June.
Zardoya says that the band started writing “No One Noticed” during the pandemic in 2020, chipping away at a demo before ultimately “putting it on the back burner for a while,” then revisiting it as a potential addition to Submarine. Part of the reason why it was shrugged off for years was because as the group searched for a breakthrough single, they thought that meant something with a quicker pace than the viscous dreaminess of “No One Noticed.”
“We were understandably getting a little pressure from the label, and I think that the first thing labels look at as being a ‘hit’ is something with tempo,” Zardoya explains. So the band focused the Cinema campaign around the sleek dark-pop single “Hush,” and released the danceable electro-funk track “Run Your Mouth” as the lead single to Submarine last year. Both made the lower reaches of the Hot Rock & Alternative Songs chart.
The Marías photographed on January 15, 2025 in New York.
Caroline Tompkins
Meanwhile, Mick Management’s Jonathan Eshak, the band’s manager who started working with The Marías between their two albums, identified a sizable live base for the band and prioritized streamlining their touring agenda for Submarine. “They could play pretty large rooms — not just in New York or L.A., but in markets that are a little less traveled,” Eshak says. “But a big mission statement from María, Josh, Jesse and Eddie was they didn’t want to be viewed as just a domestic act — they really wanted to speak to fans who are either Spanish-speaking, have ancestral roots in Latin America, or are in Latin America.” As such, The Marías kicked off their tour in support of Submarine with a four-night residency at Foro Puebla in Mexico City last June, before headlining across North America throughout the summer.
As they began presenting Submarine on tour, The Marías found it interesting that “No One Noticed” would elicit some of the evening’s biggest cheers; similarly, the band would hear from friends, and read fan comments, declaring the moody track as the album standout. By July, TikTok users had adopted the song — particularly its “Come on, don’t leave me, it can’t be that easy, babe/If you believe me, I guess I’ll get on a plane” breakdown — and when Billie Eilish posted a clip of herself singing along to “No One Noticed” on her Instagram story on July 17, streams began to skyrocket.
By early September, “No One Noticed” had reached the top 10 of the Hot Rock & Alternative Songs chart. As the band was prepping for its first proper European tour for the fall, it was announced as an opener on the December leg of Eilish’s arena tour. “Billie showed love for ‘No One Noticed’ really early on,” says Zardoya, “so it was cool to perform that song live at her shows — I would dedicate it to her before we performed it, every single night.”
And as the crowd sizes increased, so did the song’s audience. Since serving as a summertime-sadness anthem thanks to its initial TikTok pickup, “No One Noticed” has crossed over to streaming platforms and even to radio. The song has 215.3 million official on-demand U.S. streams through Jan. 30, according to Luminate, and reached No. 4 on Hot Rock & Alternative Songs, No. 11 on Streaming Songs and No. 26 on Pop Airplay, where it hits a new high this week. “No One Noticed” has also peaked at No. 22 in 18 weeks on the Hot 100 and reentered the top 40 on the Feb. 1-dated chart.
The Marías are slated to perform at three South American editions of Lollapalooza in March before playing Coachella in April. Eshak says that, as the band prepares to play Submarine in front of oversized festival crowds, the rising interest in their catalog beyond “No One Noticed” demonstrates how much more growth they can achieve in 2025.
“There’s so much runway for this band,” he says. “Obviously a hit song’s a hit song, and we’ll take them where we can find them, but what I’m so excited about is how people are engaging with the band’s entire world.”
That world will also expand when the follow-up to Submarine arrives: The Marías spent some time at New York’s famed Electric Lady Studios in January and are planning on more sessions following their festival gigs in the spring.
“We were pretty surprised at how experimental things were in the studio,” says Conway of the recent sessions. “I think ‘No One Noticed’ helped pave the way for us to let our guard down a little and do whatever we want.”
Caroline Tompkins
This story appears in the Feb. 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.
Listening to Jacob Collier’s star-studded Djesse album series, now on its fourth installment, can feel like attending the most expansive, open-minded music festival you’ve never heard of — with a roster of guest artists spanning contemporary hit-makers, instrumental legends and global choruses and orchestras. But though Collier’s recordings have become as known for their diverse array of big-name guests as his own presence, his full-lengths weren’t always defined by collaboration.
“The first album I ever made, In My Room, was an album written, recorded, arranged, produced and mixed entirely alone, and my first world tour of this album was with a one-man show,” explains the 30-year-old studio savant of his 2016 debut album. The solo experience sufficiently convinced him there might truly be strength in numbers: “By the end of that process, I was deeply ready for collaboration.”
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The guest-heavy Djesse sets — pronounced “Jay Cee,” like Collier’s initials — have yielded two album of the year nods for the performer-writer-producer, including this year for 2024’s Vol. 4, the series’ final entry. “I’m sure the heart of my world will always be, in part, in my little room where the journey first began, in that solitary sanctuary,” he reflects. “But more than ever, collaborating feels like a big part of what I am here for.” These are just some of the names who’ve entered the Collier Constellation — on Djesse Vol. 4 and beyond.
AESPA
Collier knew the best-selling South Korean quartet, who he calls “one of the most adventurous and contemporary K-pop groups I’ve ever heard,” would be the perfect match for the “galactic multigenre form” of Vol. 4’s “Over You.” “Plus,” he adds, “we’re all Crocs fans, so it was meant to be.”
Anoushka Shankar
The British American sitar luminary (and daughter of sitar legend Ravi Shankar) lends her “incalculable greatness and magic” to the rousing “A Rock Somewhere,” which Collier says allows the song to “bridge effortlessly from the ancient and classical to the sparkling modern.”
Brandi Carlile
Collier first met fellow Grammy darling Carlile through Joni Mitchell, when Carlile invited Collier to Mitchell’s house to privately sing her song “Little Green” to her as she recovered from a brain aneurysm. So for a song called “Little Blue” on Vol. 4, “it felt only right to invite Brandi to offer her inimitable storytelling magic [to the song].”
Camilo
“Camilo is pure joy in human form!” Collier raves of the Colombian pop hit-maker, whose bilingual crooning leads “Mi Corazón.” “His ability to hop between Spanish and English is next level. He brings an incredible energy to everything he touches… and his moustache is a bonus.”
Chris Martin
Chris Martin and Jacob Collier
Michal Augustini
Collier says the Coldplay frontman, who sings on “Over You,” has become “like a brother” since they met in 2019: “With a presence and openheartedness that’s so transformative, he’s the kind of mentor everybody should have.”
Chris Thile
Chris Thile and Jacob Collier
Fran Haincourt
The Nickel Creek mandolinist, whom Collier calls “a true master of his craft,” lends his plucking to “Summer Rain,” alongside fellow alt-folker Madison Cunningham. “[He’s] my ultimate dueling partner,” Collier adds, “yet somehow, we connect so deeply on a musical level.”
Daniel Caesar
The R&B star lent his buttery vocals to Vol. 1’s nu-soul jam “Time Alone With You.” Collier says recording with Caesar “felt like having a friend come over to hang out after school. He’s that rare combination of incredibly cool and incredibly warm — one of the leading lights of this generation of artists, yet so down to earth.”
Dustin Yellin
A project as sprawling as Djesse needed ambitious artwork to match, and for that, Collier enlisted artist Yellin to create a “30-sheet glass sculpture, with more than 3,000 miniature cut-out paper elements glued within and between the sheets, to form a three-dimensional silhouette of the ‘Djesse head,’ ” which has been featured on all four series volumes. “He’s a maverick, a legend and a master world-builder,” Collier gushes.
John Mayer
Jacob Collier and John Mayer
Courtesy Jacob Collier
Collier was ecstatic to have the superstar singer-guitarist lend his “master touch” to a six-string solo on gentle ballad “Never Gonna Be Alone,” also featuring Lizzy McAlpine’s vocals. “John’s the master of tone, taste and impeccable phrasing… And a top gent, to boot.”
Kimbra
Another close friend and regular collaborator, the New Zealand singer-songwriter did not appear on Vol. 4, but she did jam with Collier as a special guest on the North American leg of the accompanying world tour. “She is such a tour de force in music,” he raves. “A firecracker of a writer, singer and world-builder.”
Kirk Franklin
After making a pact on the 2022 Grammys red carpet to work together, the contemporary gospel legend sang on and/or lent direction of his eponymous Singers to multiple Vol. 4 tracks. Collier says his day in the studio with Franklin in Arlington, Texas, “changed my life… The community and energy surrounding him is nothing like I’ve ever seen.”
Metropole Orkest
The “mighty Dutch bunch” has provided backing for the Djesse series since its beginning, with Suzie Collier conducting it on Vol. 4. He says the “shape-shifting, multigenre” ensemble has “played a pivotal part [in] my musical journey, both onstage and in the studio.”
Michael McDonald
The undisputed King of Yacht Rock maintains his own legacy of unexpected collaborations on “Wherever I Go,” where his “iconically unmatched vocal tone” powers what Collier calls “a bit of an homage to the music [fellow guest singer] Lawrence and I grew up listening to.”
The Mystery of the Bulgarian Voices
Jacob Collier (center) and The Mystery of the Bulgarian Voices.
Courtesy Jacob Collier
A fan of this choir since he discovered it as a teen, Collier calls snagging the group for “All Around You” on the Vol. 4 deluxe edition a “bucket-list collaboration. Their sound is life-changing — 25 singers from 12 regional traditions, all coming together to create something so pure, agile and breathtaking.”
Oumou Sangaré
“A Malian Wassalou icon” who has appeared on multiple Djesse sets — most recently as part of a global all-star lineup of guest vocalists on Vol. 4’s “Box of Stars Pt. 2.” — Sangaré’s presence was “so majestic,” Collier says, “the room felt so small in comparison.”
Rapsody
The Grammy-nominated North Carolina MC “brought so much depth and magic” to Vol. 3’s “He Won’t Hold You,” providing what Collier calls her “rare mixture of ultra-hip and ultra-heartfelt” rhymes.
Steve Vai
The legendary 64-year-old axeman for Frank Zappa and David Lee Roth is now a very dear friend who has taught Collier about “everything from chords to Zappa to philosophy to the nature of [the] music business.” Vai plays on three Vol. 4 tracks, on which Collier calls his “wild mastery… nothing short of astounding.”
Suzie Collier
Jacob and Suzie Collier
Michal Augustini
Collier’s mother — an internationally known conductor and his “first collaborator as a human being” — has worked with him since Djesse’s first installment, and she conducted on multiple Vol. 4 tracks: “My dear mother has taught me more about music than almost anybody I can think of,” he says. “Her musical sensitivity and mastery has shaped so much of who I am.”
Tori Kelly
Since they became friends in 2017, the artist Collier calls “arguably the most gifted vocalist on the planet right now” has appeared on multiple tracks of his, including Vol. 4’s stirring a cappella rendition of the pop standard “Bridge Over Troubled Water,” also featuring John Legend.
This story appears in the Jan. 25, 2025, issue of Billboard.
For the past five years, producer D’Mile has been on a hot streak. In 2021, he won a song of the year Grammy for his work on H.E.R.’s “I Can’t Breathe.” Shortly after, her “Fight for You” (from the film Judas and the Black Messiah) won D’Mile and H.E.R. the Academy Award for best original song. Then, in 2022, he became the first songwriter to score back-to-back song of the year Grammy wins when Silk Sonic’s “Leave the Door Open” took home the prize. And now, he could potentially claim that same landmark award again: He’s nominated for it at this year’s Grammys for his collaboration with Bruno Mars and Lady Gaga on the retro power ballad “Die With a Smile” — one of three nods he received, in addition to producer of the year, non-classical and best engineered album, non-classical (for Lucky Daye’s Algorithm).
But for the artist born Dernst Emile II — who, at 40, has now accumulated 20 career Grammy nominations — what may seem like overnight success actually took nearly two decades.
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His entry into the music industry was in many ways charmed. His late mother, Yanick Étienne, was a singer who toured with Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music, while his namesake father still works as a music producer and teacher. D’Mile himself joined the business at 19 and notched his first production credits in 2005 on projects by Rihanna and Mary J. Blige, before pop-R&B heavyweight Rodney “Darkchild” Jerkins (Destiny’s Child, SZA) took him under his wing as a mentor. In the years that followed, D’Mile logged songwriting and production credits for Janet Jackson, Justin Bieber and Usher, among others.
But for D’Mile, “chasing what was hot to get on projects” during those early days wasn’t satisfying. “I was slaving away making five to 10 tracks a day,” he recalls today, sitting in the cozy reception room in his Burbank, Calif., studio. “But things weren’t moving at the pace I would have liked.”
In 2008, he decided to take a mental break and recalibrate. He amicably ended his publishing agreement with Jerkins and made a pledge to himself: to do “what I love, and if it goes anywhere or doesn’t, it’s something I’m proud of.” Lo and behold, things started falling into place that had seemed elusive — like getting more opportunities to work directly with artists instead of “guessing and throwing spaghetti against the wall” when pitching songs. In turn, D’Mile was able to foster long-term relationships with future Grammy winners like Victoria Monét and Daye.
Despite that positive momentum, D’Mile still considered quitting around eight years ago, after “reaching a point of frustration” with industry politics. “It seemed like it was more of a popularity contest or knowing the right people to get in certain rooms or positions that I’d worked so long for,” he says. “I just felt like things weren’t progressing.” He posted his feelings on Instagram Stories, which elicited supportive comments from friends and colleagues telling him that he couldn’t give up.
That’s where Daye came in. Then only a songwriter, he told D’Mile that he wanted to become an artist in his own right — and to bring D’Mile on for a project. “Doing what we wanted to do was a life-saving kind of project for me,” D’Mile recalls of producing and co-writing what became Daye’s 2019 debut album, Painted, which then went on to receive a Grammy nod for best R&B album. “That was the battery in the back that I needed,” he says. In 2022, Daye’s Table for Two, which D’Mile executive-produced, won the Grammy for best progressive R&B album; now, the singer’s third studio set with D’Mile, Algorithm, is vying for best R&B album (which could give D’Mile another Grammy if Daye wins) and best engineered album, non-classical.
Joel Barhamand
What role have your Grammy wins played in your career thus far?
It’s funny. Every time Grammy season comes around, I’m always nervous. I’m so grateful to have the wins, but then I’m like, “One day, that’s going to stop.” With these new nominations, I’m happy that people still like what I do. The attention you receive is something I had to get used to, especially the first time, because I’m kind of a quiet guy. My phone was blowing up and I had to do interviews. It was crazy. But I also feel it has made things easier because a lot of people are coming to me more than I’m trying to get to them, which is great. Yet navigating that can also be overwhelming.
What do you feel is the secret behind your success as a songwriter and producer?
I always just try to bring out who the artist is by getting to know them. It could be a conversation that sparks something before we start or while we’re working together. Or I’ll hear a conversation between the artist and another songwriter, and I’m feeling the vibe, feeling them both out. I like to say that I don’t talk; I listen. And when I create, it’s like my interpretation of who the artist is.
You’re in strong company in the producer of the year, non-classical category this year. Is there more camaraderie among producers now compared with when you were coming up?
Growing up in this business, and being with Rodney, I feel like it was way more competitive back then. And maybe some people might feel that’s better, but it can be negative to be so competitive. I’ve heard horror stories about what people can do just to get something over somebody else. For me, even though I’m up against you, we could probably work together tomorrow — so let’s do something great together. I don’t think that was happening as much back in the day.
I’ve worked before with Mustard. And Dan Nigro and I always talk. I’m such a big fan of his and what he’s done with Chappell Roan and Olivia Rodrigo. I met Alissia a few years ago; it’s great that a female has been nominated. I know a lot of people might not know her, but she’s super-talented. I haven’t met Ian Fitchuk yet but I have heard his work. I learned that he’s a fan of me as well, and that’s cool.
What kind of change would you like to see the industry as a whole embrace?
Streaming is the biggest way that people are listening to music, but it’s not translating that way for songwriters and producers. We’ve just got to make it make sense. That’s the main thing as far as income is concerned. I’ve donated to small companies that are fighting for that, like the organization a friend of mine, Tiffany Red, founded called The 100 Percenters. It advocates for the rights of songwriters and producers. I want to get more involved in that fight for sure.
Given the hot catalog-sales climate, have you been approached about selling yours?
People have talked to me, but it’s never gone as far as “I want to do a deal with you.” I guess it’s situational. Yet in the grand scheme of things, why would you do that? But I don’t know… I’m still learning about all of it at this point.
As one of today’s principal architects of R&B, what’s your take on the state of the genre in 2025?
The most important thing is really caring about the song that you’re writing as an R&B artist. There’s a lot of great stuff happening, but sometimes I feel like some R&B songs topicwise only cater to a certain demographic of people. It’s about finding the balance in keeping the integrity of R&B/soul while making it so that all walks of life can relate. Toxic R&B, that’s a Black thing, and I don’t know how much many other people in the world relate to that. So I think it’s important to make a great song but leave it open a little more for interpretation. We just need to make songs that connect with more people. Then if the songs are more open, it will cause a domino effect. I would like to think that there isn’t really a wall for us not to get bigger than we can be. We’ve just got to be more intentional and not comfortable with where we are. That will change the game, because the industry just follows what’s making the most money. And I feel there’s a world where R&B will be that.
This story appears in the Jan. 25, 2025, issue of Billboard.