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Philosophy no Dance’s Mariri Okutsu chatted with Billboard Japan for its Women in Music interview series featuring female players in the Japanese entertainment industry. The WIM initiative in Japan launched in 2022 to celebrate artists, producers and executives who have made significant contributions to music and inspired other women through their work.

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Okutsu made the transition from being a singer-songwriter to an idol group member nine years ago. On the podcast “B-side Talk – Are you taking care of your mental health?” she advocates the importance of mental well-being. Okutsu, who says she was able to find “what’s most important” after going through mental health problems, shares her thoughts on the value of being herself as an idol singer and in her private life.

Tell us how you became an idol group member.

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Before I became an idol performer, I was a singer-songwriter and also played in a band. I was asked if I’d be interested in doing idol work, and although it was a world I knew nothing about, you only live once so I figured I’d give it a try. I’d never even danced before, but took the plunge.

What was your personality like before you became an idol?

Before I became an idol, I think I was more particular about things. I liked rock music and thought I was badass when performing, so when people said stuff like, “You have a good figure” [mentioning the size of her breasts] and “You should sing cuter songs,” I resented that people didn’t see the things I wanted them to see. I was more heavily into the rock mentality back then than I am now, so when people said things like that, I turned up the volume on my guitar even more and distorted the sound, just to be rebellious. [Laughs] In terms of clothes, too, I want to wear my favorite gear for “battle” on stage, and to be the way I need to be in order to shine the most.

Did you ever feel bewildered by the idol scene, since it’s so different from your career up until then?

I’m now in my ninth year of being an idol performer, and feel that it’s a very warm world with passionate fans. At first, I searched for ways to live up to the expectations of what an “idol” should be like. I tried wearing big bows and frilly clothes, and even chose “cute” drinks and food. [Laughs] I tried really hard to figure out what my character should be like, but couldn’t keep trying to be someone I’m not. So I went, “Nope! Not gonna work!” and just showed who I really am, and things became so much easier. After I realized that it’s important to be myself, both in my idol career and in life itself, I try not to put on a front and make sure my true self is as lovely as it can be.

I think it takes courage to show your true self. What advice would you give to someone who can’t muster up the courage to do that?

Being able to create your own character by wearing “armor” is also a wonderful thing. It means you have the physical and mental strength to keep wearing that armor. It’s not about which is better or worse. Whichever you choose is fine.

Those are very convincing words coming from someone like you, since you chose to take off your armor and experienced the relief that comes along with that. What kind of person is the real you?

Well… Another thing that confused me when I became an idol was that it became harder to sing songs about romantic relationships. Until then, I thought it was good to sing about things I felt based on my own experiences. But our fans support us with such enthusiasm and romance is considered taboo for idol singers, and I don’t want to make my fans sad. It’s about establishing a relationship of trust with them. So I overcame this barrier by being up-front and declaring loudly that “I want to get married someday!” [Laughs] Because it’s true that I want to marry and have kids someday. Rather than suddenly announcing it and shocking people, my plan is to get my fans used to the idea that “she wants to get married.” At this point, my fans seem to worry about me and ask, “Aren’t you marrying yet?” [Laughs]

You’ve been an idol for nine years, keeping at it while resolving the things you feel confused about in your own way. Is there anything you take care to do to continue working for a long time?

I think I was always worried about the shelf life of an idol, thinking that if I didn’t achieve results after making my major label debut, I’d be replaced by the younger next generation. But somehow I’ve been able to continue for nine years. The key to that has been not to overwork myself. Even if the other person has no bad intentions, you should be ready to say “No” and take care of yourself when you feel mentally tired or when you feel like you’re not heading the way you want to go.

It’s true that being young is still considered important in today’s idol scene.

Youth is a really powerful thing with its boundless energy and enthusiasm, but I think Philosophy no Dance right now is also in really good condition. We might not have that drive of being young, but we’re calmer grownup women, you know? We’d really like people to check us out.

Why are you able to continue doing what you do with such sincerity?

I went through some mental health problems once. When that happened, I stopped and thought about what I really wanted to do, and decided that the biggest goal in my life was to keep doing music. I figured out what’s most important to me, so I quit all my part-time jobs and the priorities of my various choices from that point on became clear.

You advocate mental well-being in the podcast “B-side Talk” which you host. Are there any episodes you remember in particular?

They’re always interesting, but during the episode on “Sports and Mental Health,” I learned that placing winning above all else can be one of the factors that causes mental distress for athletes, and thought that the concept also has a lot in common with the world of idols and entertainment. The desire to “make it big” can be an effective stimulant, but it can also wear you down mentally. So it’s important to enjoy what you do without being too obsessed with achieving results. I was surprised to find that many of the things I thought were far removed from my own genre were actually connected in terms of mental well-being.

Sony Music Entertainment Japan has been expanding a project called “B-side” that provides support for artists and creators in the entertainment industry, both mentally and physically. I understand that they offer a variety of programs, including counseling. What did you think when you first heard about this system?

I was genuinely happy. As an artist, it’s something to be grateful about, and it’s reassuring to know that we’re being cared for as people, rather than being consumed as products. I actually went in for counseling. I’d never really heard of counseling before, and didn’t have any particular problems, so I was wondering if it was OK to go ahead with it. I thought counseling was something you went to receive advice on whether or not your concerns were right or wrong, and what you should do about them. But when I actually experienced it, counseling felt more like a conversation with myself. Talking to myself helped me to organize my thoughts, and it was like the counselor paved the way for me to find answers like the things that were bothering me or that I was worried about. If anyone has vague, unsettled feelings, I think counseling can help you untangle the knots in your mind.

—This interview by Rio Hirai (SOW SWEET PUBLISHING) first appeared on Billboard Japan