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Billboard Japan spoke with singer-songwriter kiki vivi lily for its Women in Music interview series featuring female players in the Japanese entertainment industry. The WIM initiative in Japan launched in 2022 to celebrate artists, producers and executives who have made significant contributions to music and inspired other women through their work. The first 30 interviews in this series were published in Japan as a “Billboard Japan Presents” collection by writer Rio Hirai.

kiki vivi lily is a J-pop singer known for her soothing voice and various collaborative efforts with acts and artists in hip-hop and other genres, who realized her dream of making a living as an artist after working in the corporate world for a while. The 33-year-old sat down with Billboard Japan to look back on her career and share her thoughts on lookism and ageism in the Japanese music industry, cheerfully noting, “I think there are things I can do because I debuted as an adult.”

When did you decide to pursue music as a career?

I’ve always loved music and apparently used to sing on top of tables since I was two or three years old. I formed a band in junior high but it was just for fun and we covered other people’s songs by imitating them. It wasn’t until I entered university that I began to think seriously about wanting to become a musician. I saw a documentary on (J-pop superstar) Yumi Matsutoya and seeing the process of how the things she wrote became the finished songs was so amazing that I decided to try writing my own.

You’ve always written your own lyrics. Is there anything you are mindful of when you work on them?

So I love Yumi Matsutoya and when you listen to her songs, it’s like the landscape opens up before your eyes. The way she depicts the scene is incredible and she transports the listener to a different world through her music. I try to keep that in mind when I write, so that my listeners can experience something like that through my music. I’ve matured now compared to when I first got started, so I also want to write lyrics that empower people who listen to them.

Was there a reason why you started thinking that way?

Looking back on my career, being a female artist is something I’ve often been aware of. When I first began working in music, there was a clearer distinction between men and women than there is now, and with the rise of social media, I’ve had people say things about my appearance. A lot of the musicians around me were male, but when I discussed this with them, they didn’t seem to receive as many comments about the way they looked. Female artists were often criticized about their appearance and age more than their music, so I’ve always felt that was weird. I’ve always focused on trying to make the coolest music I can in my career, but it felt like people were only looking at the surface. I just pretended to ignore it and let it slide at the time, but have always thought that one day, when I have more influence, I want to do something to help others who are feeling the same way.

So after some time passed, you decided to put those feelings from back then into your work.

Right. I’d sort of given up at the time, thinking I wasn’t in a position to make a difference. Times have changed since then and words like lookism and gender gap are more well known now, so it’s easier for me to say what I want to say. I’m also at a point where I don’t really care what people say about me anymore and trust that there are people out there who will get what I’m saying.

I’d like to think that we’ve made some progress since the days when lookism was rampant, and when artists like you make your position clear, it definitely accelerates that advancement. Also, the topic of how female artists can continue their careers for a long time in a healthy way while dealing with changes in their lifestyles is something I’d like to ask you about.

That’s a really important topic for me as well. What I try to keep in mind for the long haul is to not sell myself short. The artists who write songs that I want to listen to for a long time stay grounded doing what they do. So I’ve also been working with the belief that what’s important is to steadily keep making music I think is good.

I started my music career my mid-twenties, and was sometimes told back then that I was quite old. Staff members would say it to my face or I’d hear that someone had said so. It made me sad every time, but that’s why I stayed away from people in authority who judged me based on my age or appearance, and made songs with artists of my generation. Looking back now, I know I was right not to let such things bother me, and that as long as I take what I do seriously, time will take care of things. Now that I’m older than I was back then, I’ve come to think that getting older isn’t something to be afraid of.

Are there any female artists you see as role models?

I always look forward to watching the Grammys. It’s great seeing women be successful. I think Victoria Monét is particularly wonderful, and after doing some digging about the way she uses her platform to speak out on social issues, I feel she’s one of the figures I aspire to be. In Japan, Yumi Matsutoya of course, and seeing artists like Chara and UA staying in the forefront through motherhood makes me want to try it, too.

I’m in my thirties now and the women around me are going through various life stages. My musician friends are really energetic and active in their careers, and I’m having a lot of fun, too. Meanwhile, my friends who have families also seem fulfilled. I started auditioning while in college, but once I graduated, I found a job and continued to work at a company while doing music. When the pandemic hit, I decided to focus on music. Because I debuted relatively late, I often think about how to keep doing what I do for a long time, and I’m like, “I’ll just do everything I want to do.”

It sounds like you’ve gone through a lot but put things behind you and are now able to focus on your career. What message do you want to convey through your music?

That there are no rules in life, I guess. There’s no such thing as “too late” to start something, and there’s no rule that says female artists must look attractive. It’d be great if everyone could do what they long to do. I need to be spending quality time and be filled with good vibes or I won’t have the energy to send out positive messages to people, so I’d like to see the wider world and experience a lot of things from now on, too.

—This interview by Rio Hirai (SOW SWEET PUBLISHING) first appeared on Billboard Japan

Wednesday Campanella singer Utaha chatted with Billboard Japan for its Women in Music interview series featuring female players in the Japanese entertainment industry. The WIM initiative in Japan launched in 2022 to celebrate artists, producers and executives who have made significant contributions to music and inspired other women through their work. The first 30 interviews in this series were published in Japan as a “Billboard Japan Presents” collection by writer Rio Hirai.

Utaha began her music career under unusual circumstances, joining a successful music project as the second-generation lead singer. The 22-year-old artist is now branching out into other fields as well, such as acting. Her striking, one-of-a-kind look has been her passion since before she debuted as Wednesday Campanella’s new frontwoman. After going through a period of feeling like she couldn’t live “normally,” she decided to first change her appearance to cast off her old self, and this transformation eventually led to major changes in her life as well.

I heard you weren’t thinking of becoming a singer before joining Wednesday Campanella. What do you think you’d be doing otherwise?

Utaha: A designer…maybe? I studied design at an art college, and shortly before Wednesday Campanella, I was looking into internships at design companies. I was also uploading my outfits and the stuff I was thinking about at the time on social media. I was asked to join the group because they saw what I was doing, so I was able to start my current career pretty freely.

So your current hair, makeup, and fashion are extensions of what you were doing before.

Yes, the prototype already existed when I was in high school. I couldn’t adapt to school life very well. I didn’t have an icon or an ideal image of what I wanted to be like, but I wanted to break away from my weak self at the time. I wanted to be strong, so I pierced my lip and buzzed my hair.

I imagine it would take courage to do something different when you’re not feeling strong. Were you trying to generate momentum to change yourself?

There was a period when I never encountered anyone who could help me when things were rough, so I had no choice but to help myself. It was really hard for me to change how I felt because of deeply ingrained values. But I realized that all I needed to do was to take a step forward to change the way I look. After realizing that, I immediately took action.

Until then, what was difficult for you or made you feel you couldn’t adapt?

I’m not sure… I was a really normal kid. There was a time when I tried my best to “live like everyone else,” but that didn’t seem to suit me very well. But because I couldn’t do what everyone else was doing normally, I was able to think about what I could do and improve on that.

What changed when you changed your appearance?

I went to a public high school in Tokyo and TikTok was all the rage. It was normal for everyone to look cute like the girls on TikTok in my school, so there were no other girls who had their hair buzzed and lip pierced. There were some who thought I was weird and expressed that sentiment, but it felt like changing my appearance created a kind of barrier around me. I didn’t become stronger on the inside right away, but it was like I had another skin around my weak self. Eventually, it made me stronger on the inside as well.

After you debuted as Wednesday Campanella, you entered a phase where you were expected to express yourself with more than your hair and makeup. Did you feel uncomfortable about that?

I’d never thought of becoming a musician, so I started out not knowing anything at all, like what would happen when I did something on stage. Plus, I debuted in the midst of the pandemic and there were a lot of restrictions like not being able to speak or raise your arms (during concerts), so we got no reactions and I couldn’t tell what the right answer was. But after about six months, a song [“Edison”] went viral. After that, I had more opportunities to be featured in the media. When you get exposure, people say stuff about you on social media. I almost lost sight of what I really wanted to value, but after going through that period, now I’m able to work without losing sight of myself.

You’re in an unusual position where you took over from a predecessor, but it looks like you’re working with a clear idea of what you want to do. Could you tell us what it is you value to not lose sight of yourself?

Obviously I wondered if people would accept me and felt pressured about that, but once I got started, it turned out people were surprisingly welcoming. After I felt that response, I began to do more and think about my strengths. By accepting myself, that I’m cute the way I am, I want the people who see me perform to think that it’s OK to accept and praise themselves for being cute and amazing. “Value the things you like, but live with respect and consideration for others” is the message I can communicate from the stage, and that’s the strength of what I do.

While diversity is being celebrated these days, it feels like society is becoming more divided and our values becoming more polarized in reality. I can see how a lot of people would be encouraged by the way you value your distinctive style of cuteness in such an environment.

When I look at TikTok and such, it really feels like the ideal of what everyone thinks is cute is becoming more and more standardized. It’s kind of strange that my idea of cute is respected in a society where lookism is still so rampant. Obviously there are people who don’t share my idea of cute, but that’s just a matter of preference so I think if I pursue what I believe in, the people who share my outlook will congregate where I end up.

I’m sure there are people out there who don’t have the courage to do what they believe in like you do. Do you think such people should just give it a try?

I’m in a position to say, “Why don’t you give it a try?” because I actually went through with it and it worked out, but I’m sure there are people who aren’t able to take the plunge because of their environment. Especially if they’re students surrounded by adults who instill rules in their lives, I’m sure many feel it’s hard to take that first step. But when you go out into the world, don’t you think, “What a tiny world I lived in when I was a student”? The world is much bigger than that, so I think you can have more fun searching for freedom if you broaden your perspective. 

Do you think being a woman has affected your career?

It probably has affected me, for better or worse. Nowadays, men are freer to wear skirts and do their nails and such, but I’ve loved makeup and fashion since I was little, so I was glad to be a girl to be able to enjoy those things freely. I used to not like the shape of my body before, but thanks to fashion I’ve come to like it. Ideally, though, I want such discrepancies between men and women to disappear. People are always arguing on social media about how women are like this and men are like that, and I know there’s no easy solution, but I hope there will be less discrimination all around.

Society is gradually changing and I want to think that people in their 20s like you sense things differently and have a more unbiased outlook. Do you think this is the case?

I’m probably surrounded by people who think like I do. I say stuff like, “Let’s look at people as people and not by their genders” and “Don’t call people names based on their looks,” so the ones who discriminate don’t come near me. But when I interact with people who aren’t my fans on social media, there are so many different opinions. It feels like things are changing when I’m just looking around myself, but I’m reminded that when I look at society as a whole, not much progress is being made.

I get the impression that you’re analyzing yourself and society very calmly as you go through life. Do you have ways of coping when you feel down or when you hit a wall?

I don’t think I’ve hit any walls yet, but there are times when I feel down. When that happens, I eat and sleep! [Laughs] You know how there are things you can’t do anything about right away? Like lookism, you can’t change that right away. Although I know there’s nothing I can do even if I keep worrying about it, I feel down sometimes, so I try to eat properly and go to bed before late at night to not be overwhelmed by it all. After 22 years of living, I’ve realized I’m more energetic in the morning than at night.

That’s simple and very good. OK then, what advice would you give yourself when you were just starting out?

I think I was really tense for the first year and a half of my career. I want to say edgier, but just a lot more pointed. I don’t think it was necessarily a bad thing though, and I’m glad I didn’t take in opinions that I couldn’t agree with, so I’d like to tell myself that I’m OK the way I am. I got to where I am today because I struggled and felt conflicted about things in my own way at the time.

–This interview by Rio Hirai first appeared on Billboard Japan