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Suppose you glance over to Bryson Tiller’s discography. After peeking through, you’ll notice why he’s a cerebral marksman on the features front. After clinching Hot 100 wins alongside Summer Walker (“Playing Games”), Jazmine Sullivan (“Insecure”) and biggest of all, DJ Khaled and Rihanna (“Wild Thoughts”), Tiller has bloomed into a perennial go-to in the R&B circuit. Dive further, of course, and you’ll see his 2015 goldmine, T R A P S O U L, a groundbreaking R&B album with a treasure trove of ear candy sweet enough for any heartbreak. But that doesn’t tell the entire story of Tiller, the Louisville slugger who batted his way through adversity.
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After working night shifts at Papa John’s to support his music career, he famously deleted his most popular song, “Don’t,” from SoundCloud because he was unsure about the track’s potential. Despite these hurdles, he ascended to star status, notching three top 10 albums on the Billboard 200, including his 2017 chart-topper, True to Self. While Spotify anointed his debut as one of the most influential projects of the modern era, Tiller’s journey goes beyond those 14 songs — which is why his fourth album, Bryson Tiller, arriving this Friday (Apr. 5), looks to set the tone and start a new chapter in his career.
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“The Bryson Tiller album, I wanted to show people the many things I’m capable of,” he explains. “There’s different types of vibes on here. I can take it to many different places, make so many new fans, and try new things.”
After delivering his first top 20 Hot 100 record as a lead artist since 2015’s “Don’t” with “Whatever She Wants,” Tiller’s confidence is sky-high. The R&B fireball is seeking vengeance on those who once called him a one-album wonder. Playing by his rules, Tiller unabashedly writes the story he always wanted to tell on album number four, with Mario Kart’s “Bullet Bill” as inspiration.
“My main goal with this album is for the masses to hear everything I’m capable of doing,” says Tiller. “So they give me a chance and stick around as fans. My main goal is that everybody hears it and my guarantee is that you’ll love at least one song from this album. I can guarantee that.”
Bellow, Billboard speaks to Bryson Tiller about his new album, why he’ll never release a sequel to T R A P S O U L, finding inspiration in Super Smash Bros and Mario Kart and if he’ll ever drop a full-fledged rap mixtape.
I noticed you got some new jewels, like the Bullet Bill chain. I think you said it represented your success on the Billboard charts. Could you clarify how that’s parallel to your recent wins?
I love Mario Kart a lot. When you’re in last place, they give you a lot of power-ups. The power-ups you could get are all dependent on what position you are in the race. If you’re in first or second, you’ll get a banana or a shell sometimes and then something to defend yourself from the blue shell. If you’re in first place, it’s gonna knock you down for a little bit. I feel like the similarities between Mario Kart and my career is like, I’ve been in last place for a while — or whatever place you want to put me in. Definitely nowhere near first, second or third.
But if you know what you’re doing in Mario Kart and you get a power-up and pull a Bullet Bill you could be in second place just like that… You could get a star and be in first place. There’s so many things you could do if you know what you’re doing. I’ve seen people be sad, ’cause they’re in 12th place — but I’m like, “You get the best power-ups.” As long as you lock in and focus, you could be at the top quickly. I felt like I needed a chain for Bullet Bill because that and my career have a lot of similarities. Me being in last place and feeling like I’m gonna sneak up on people and they don’t expect me to be next to them and I like that.
We still gotta get busy in Mario Kart if you want that work. Me and Toad get it in.
Man, I’ve heard this so many times. I believe you, but I’ve gotten bored of Mario Kart because I’m tired of winning. All I do is win.
I saw the Kirby chain as well. You love Super Smash Bros. and even called it the “best fighting game.” Take me back to when you first became a fan and even how those video games help your creativity and loosen you up while in album mode.
My love for Kirby started in Smash Bros. for Nintendo 64. Kirby’s had games for that on Super Nintendo and Gameboy Color and Gameboy Advance, but I ain’t really played them. But when I played on Smash Bros., I never knew who to pick — but I liked Kirby because I could absorb any one of my enemies and become something like that. That’s why I like Kirby so much now. I compare myself to him as an artist, because I feel like Kirby learns from his enemies and he can become them and still remain himself, unlike the Pokemon, Ditto, who would literally be you. Kirby remains himself, but can be anything. ‘
I think when we were in Tennessee, I may have shown you my Gohan tattoo. I know you said Dragon Ball Z is top-notch anime. There’s a lot of artists that appreciate anime. Has anime and video games been a way for you to connect with artists beyond music?
Not really. There’s a couple people who I know who like anime and video games. I know Chris Brown and Big Sean do. That’s not something we sit around and talk about for hours. Most times, it’s about music or relationship stuff. I would say there’s nobody I’ve connected with on that level that plays Apex Legends as much as me, or has been Apex Predator before.
You said this is the happiest you’ve been in terms of releasing an album. With that type of happiness, was that why you also chose to title your album your name because you’re at peace with yourself?
There’s a couple reasons I wanted to name it Bryson Tiller, my name. One of the reasons was because people put me in a box for so long. They want me to stick to this one thing I did in 2015, which was T R A P S O U L. Rapping, singing and blending it to make it one thing. Keep doing this and everything will win. Even people around me that I’m cool with, “Yeah bro, just stick to what you know.” I’m like, “No, I’m an artist. I feel like I’m capable of so many different things.” People don’t know that I’m a better rapper than when I made T R A P S O U L. I don’t wanna say I’m a better singer, but I dumbed down my vocals for T R A P S O U L. People just don’t know what I’m capable of as a singer.
Everything is intentional with this album. For example, somebody would hear “Whatever She Wants” and hear the way I’m rapping like, “Oh, so simple. He wants to be a rapper so bad.” But they don’t know that I would bar the f–k up on a Slum Village beat and go crazy. It was intentional for me to make a simple song like that. They might hear a song like “Don’t” and hear how simple the melodies are. I’m not really singing. I’m singing, but I ain’t singing. Like, “Oh, this is as good as he can sing.” I have songs that will probably blow you away with how good I’m singing. Everything’s intentional with me. If I choose not to do something or if I’m not doing something, it’s not because I can’t, it’s because this is what I want to do. That was a long answer.
The other reason I named it Bryson Tiller is because I felt like this is just a great time for me to show people myself and be myself. Show people who I am and do things that are me. I love sci-fi movies, which is the inspiration behind the cover. I love video games. I’m a nerd. I always kind of been one and I want to embrace that as much as I can this year. Embrace everything that’s me regardless if people like it or not. I’ve never been cool before and I don’t know, man, I’m just happy with who I am because I think that’s cool.
I feel like you and 6LACK can easily turn it on when in the rap bag. Have you entertained the thought of a mixtape or EP strictly rapping?
Oh yeah, absolutely. I actually did a mixtape called Slum Tiller. It’s a play on Slum Village. That’s actually where “Whatever She Wants” comes from. I did three volumes of the Slum Tiller mixtape. That came from the second volume of that. I’m just rapping for the most part. It’s my no-filter rap mixtape. I say whatever the hell I want in whatever way I want to. Because I decided to do that and take the filter off I was able to make a song like “Whatever She Wants.”
I might have to call up DJ Drama to get a Gangsta Grillz.
I love DJ Drama. A couple people hit me up and wanted to host a tape. I just kind of treated it differently from my other mixtapes. I’ve done mixtapes before called Killer Instinct one and two and that one definitely had the mixtape feel with the DJ drops and whatever. This one is mostly original music. The only ones that get remixed on this tape are Slum Village classics.
Do you remember when you first became a Slum Village fan?
I’ve always heard the songs growing up here and there, like “Selfish.” As I started to go on tour and travel the world, like I was in Toronto and heard “2U 4U” and it was a super different vibe. I was like, “Why does this make me want to relax?” That type of stuff they do is very neo-soul-infused. It feels like it could be R&B, but it’s not R&B because they’re rapping — but R&B lovers could listen to it. I think they were the perfect people for me to [remix on] this tape. If I’m rapping, I’m gonna make sure most of the stuff is R&B-infused. There are samples in the beat that might be singing. It might just be super-melodic. I sing a little bit on there.
You have proven to be one of the go-to guys when it comes to features. What is it about collaborating that you get joy out of that you may not be necessarily getting out of your solo stuff?
One, not having to write a hook, multiple verses, and have to do all types of ad-libs and s–t. So it’s a lot less pressure on myself. When it comes to doing features, I can do either a verse or a hook, and I love that. Two, I love to collaborate with artists. I love to see what they bring me. Sometimes, they pull me out of my world and bring me into theirs. Sometimes, they give me songs that are similar to what I’ve already done, which is cool too. I just like collaborating with artists.
We’ve been talking about your love for video games. You designed one video game yourself over the last few years. Are there any similarities in your approach to crafting a record versus designing a video game?
I would say from the story part of my video game, absolutely, yes. At the end of the day, what I really enjoy doing the most is telling stories. That’s what I’ve loved doing since elementary school. I would write a personal narrative and I had pictures in it and I’d have the whole classroom huddled over my desk trying to read it because the teacher was raving about it. When I got to middle school, I was making these comic books out of printer paper and I would draw pictures on them and I would make stories. I had four issues and I had fans. Not many, like five or six, but they were genuinely interested in what was going to happen next.
My new way of doing that became music, as I got to 16 or 17 and I was like, “I’m gonna tell stories through music now.” I feel like over the years, since 2020, I decided to bring it back to my first love because I started playing the game I fell in love with and that reignited my love for gaming. Apex Legends. I spent so much time doing it I was like, “Damn, I’m not making no money from doing it. I’m not making money from music because I’m playing so much.” I might as well be making my own game. I went back to my own notes when I had a game in 2017 like, “I’m gonna make this game first because it will be the easiest.” That was my start. I’ve been working on that for four years now since late 2020.
When you first deleted “Don’t,” you said it was a confidence thing and you were self-conscious about putting it out. Has there been a time that insecurity may have resurfaced to where you sat back and hit reset on this album?
Yes and no. I’ma say “yes” because there were a lot of songs that didn’t really make it. It wasn’t that I was necessarily insecure about it, I just felt like it didn’t belong on the album. “Whatever She Wants” wasn’t supposed to be on my album. That was made for my Slum Tiller mixtape. It just became so massive, and I was gaining so many new fans, I was like, “You know what, this album is about versatility. Let’s bring ‘em all to the Bryson Tiller album so they could get to know who I am for the people who are just now discovering me as an artist.” It made sense from a business standpoint.
But as far as the songs I recorded on this album, I’m pretty confident and sure about all of them. I will say this: I know that everybody is not gon’ like every song. Everything is intentional. There are people who despise “Whatever She Wants.” They’re like, “I don’t wanna hear him do this. I want to hear him do that.” I got music for everybody on here. I got a song on here that I really love, but I feel like some people might only like that song compared to the other songs. I made one song on the album I was like, “This is my self-titled album, I have to try a song with no Auto-Tune.” There are gonna be people who like that song over every other song because they like singers that don’t use Auto-Tune. And I’m OK with that.
When you look at “Outside,” “Calypso” and “Whatever She Wants,” those are three different sounding records. What song on the album embodies that elite storytelling from Bryson Tiller?
Definitely “Calypso.” It is just a movie, top-to-bottom. It’s about a guy going to the club and looking at the guest list and realizing his name is on there next to a girl he used to date. He never forgot her name because she wore her name on her necklace. They get inside the club and it’s empty. Maybe it’s not empty and it’s a vibe, but it reminds them of a time in the club when it was packed. That song comes on, “Just like magic they playing our song.” It’s just like, “We gotta get one last dance in.” The guy’s hoping he can go home with her that night, but it doesn’t end up that way. That is the most story-driven song so far out of those three.
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You said a quote, to me, that was so hard-hitting. “Bryson Tiller is not T R A P S O U L, T R A P S O U L is Bryson Tiller.” When you look at that quote, talk about the gift and potentially the curse that came with T R A P S O U L.
It’s always interesting to me, because even hearing “most groundbreaking album” — nobody said this s–t when it came out. I get it takes a while for people to understand that. I remember playing this album for a couple DSPs and magazines, and straight crickets in the room. I felt so self-conscious after those meetings. It felt so awkward. Just imagine the outro to “Right My Wrongs.” Crickets in the room. Nobody had nothing to say. I’m like, “God d–n.” That made me self-conscious like, “Man, I’m trash. What the f–k am I doing?”
To see all the love for it now is kinda crazy. Now they’re like, “You need to stick to this.” I need to stick to the thing y’all were telling me was bad at first? Also, how about I just do me, like I did on that album, and y’all just listen to it and grow with it and see how you feel about it in three months, six months to a year instead of trying to dismiss it right away. As soon as people try to come in and say, “Do this,” it takes all the fun out of music. It makes everything less authentic.
When I said, “Bryson Tiller is not T R A P S O U L, T R A P S O U L is Bryson Tiller,” they went from calling me a one-hit wonder to a one-album wonder. They keep moving the goal posts for me. I made that album, I don’t want to say that album didn’t make me because it definitely did, but at the same time, there are a lot of people that still don’t enjoy T R A P S O U L and it’s not something they would put on and those are the people I want to reach. I want to reach those people with different sounds.
T R A P S O U L was great for the time and what it was. When I listen to it now, some people say it’s timeless and some people say it sounds dated. I’m kinda on the fence between the two, because I know that there are other people who like other sounds in music and those are people I want to reach. I’ve already reached the T R A P S O U L fans. I’ve already done that. I don’t need to do that. People tell me to make T R A P S O U L 2 all the time. I’ll die before I make that. I mean that s–t. It’s all about BTA and whatever I decide to do next.
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Rhymes aren’t the only thing Big Sean has been writing over the last few years. The Detroit native just revealed that his first book will arrive later this year.
Big Sean announced Go Higher on Wednesday (April 3), which is now available for pre-order and slated to hit bookstands and retailers on Oct. 8 via Simon Element, an imprint of Simon & Schuster.
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The book will focus on five practices for purpose, success and inner peace “through an interactive guidebook on maintaining daily mental wellness” while helping readers reach their full potential.
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Sean reflected on becoming an author, a journey that’s been “years in the making,” according to a heartfelt Instagram post on Wednesday.
“Besides the music, another project that’s been years in the making and it’s finally time. I can’t even believe it for real,” he said. “But anyone who know me since I signed my record deal knows if you look at my old YouTubes I’ve always been about speaking from the heart, following your intuition and checking in with yourself mentally. Because that’s how I was raised.”
He continued: “That’s the upbringing that was surrounding me with my family. It was a lot of elevated thinkers. They’d give me gems and these books that I eventually read. If it wasn’t for them methods that I applied to my life, I for sure wouldn’t be here today, period.”
Tons of support flooded Sean’s Instagram comment section as Ab-Soul, Royce Da 5’9″, Hit-Boy, Key Wane and more showed love to the Detroit rapper on his latest endeavor.
Big Sean also saluted acclaimed authors such as Deepak Chopra, Sadhguru, Esther and Jerry Hicks, Bell Hooks and others for instilling knowledge and inspiring him along the way. He credited Jay Shetty, whose podcast he appeared on in 2022, with putting the battery in his back to pen a book.
“I took all the lessons I learned, all the philosophies mixed with real-life experiences and condensed what works for me into these five strategies that really will teach you what success mean to you and show you what your purpose is if you don’t already know,” he explained about Go Higher.
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How can somebody be successful and underrated at the same time? That’s the space Cardo finds himself in. The Texas producer — by way of St. Paul, Minnesota — has diamond- (Drake’s “God’s Plan”) and platinum-certified (Travis Scott’s “Goosebumps”) records from the RIAA, and has produced countless songs with underground darlings and blog era legends, yet he still feels left out of the conversation when it comes to rap’s best producers.
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“I’ve been left off these top five, top 10 lists, whatever, people fail to mention me,” he tells Billboard over Zoom, sounding equal parts perturbed and confused. He’s looking to change that narrative, though. Just four months into the new year, Cardo has had a stellar 2024 already, producing a handful of bangers for Playboi Carti and contributing to ScHoolboy Q’s impressive Blue Lips.
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Cardo Got Wings isn’t planning on slowing down either. The producer born Ronald Nathan LaTour Jr. —whose childhood friends dubbed him Ricardo because he looks Puerto Rican — is working on a solo album. He’s using Dr. Dre’s solo debut as inspiration, saying, “The Chronic was a staple of how a producer can take charge of an entire project.”
There’s also a few “I’m the rapper, he’s the producer”-type of projects coming from him as well, a format that has become synonymous with his brand. We talk about all those things, plus much more below, in a condensed version of our conversation.
You look Puerto Rican for real, bro.
I get that every f—in’ day, that’s how I got my name Ricardo. That’s how it happened. They used to call me and my brothers the Hoy Boys because we had curly hair and were lightskin. I kinda ran with the name and let my Latin fans down, though, because they thought I was Puerto Rican or Dominican.
You and Carti have been locked in. You’ve produced the last couple singles.
Yeah, the last four: “HOODBYAIR,” “EVILJORDAN,” “BACKR00MS,” and “KETAMINE.” That’s my little brother, man. Just being around him, the young one, you know, and gaining some kind of different kind of energy and inspiration from what he’s doing, seeing what levels he’s going on, it kind of gives me an idea of what levels I should just keep going. That’s how we’re creating all these fun records, breaking all these barriers that people made up.
Why aren’t the songs on streaming?
I guess testing the waters with social media [first].
Some of the videos are wild.
[Laughs.] Yeah, exactly. But, man, it gives it contrast, it gives it a raw element, back into the artistry. Especially with all these videos being run-and-gun, and they don’t have nothing to it, just the song, you know? The video sometimes makes you love the song even. I feel like that’s what Carti is bringin’. That, plus making sure the visuals are definitely wicked and pushing the envelope because some of these rules are just made up. This is meant for you to do whatever the f—k you want to do and make the s—t that you want to make. And that’s where we at now, you know, so I respect him 100% for just being creative and being a true artist to himself first.
When you made these beats for him, was it over email? Were you in the studio with him?
No, it was really over FaceTime. Me and Carti been working on this project in particular over the last four years. Either I link up with him wherever he’s at, probably New York, or I’ll just send it straight to his phone — or send it to Fritz [Owens, Carti’s engineer] because Fritz [is] with him every day. Carti changes his number all the time too, so I won’t hear from him for a couple months, and then he’ll hit me and boom, –we get reignited, and I start sending files.
You’ve watched Carti’s style evolve. Can you explain how that’s been since you’ve worked so closely with him?
I look at everything that he’s done, with guys like Pierre and everybody else. They all gave him a different sound, a different pocket. They all bring something different to the table. He doesn’t reach out to people because of this or that, he reaches out for a specific sound. Just by seeing his performances and listening to Whole Lotta Read, I’m like, “Man, this is what rap has been missing.” We’ve been missing this kind of energy. You know what I’m saying? Some may not agree with me because that’s not they type of music, but for a listener that listens to any genre of music, I feel like it was probably one of the most unique albums in rap.
I’m not the biggest Whole Lotta Red fan, but I get the appeal and I see the influence, a lot of cats bitin’ that style. It’s a polarizing album; you either love it or hate it.
[Laughs.] It’s like a punk, alternative [album]. That’s what I like about it most, it’s a grunge-ass rap album that makes you go wild; in the gym, driving, whatever. That album done gave me a few speeding tickets. I’m originally from the Midwest, I’m from the Twin Cities. We’re surrounded by everything. So, by listening to DJ Paul, Juicy J and DJ Zirk and everybody else down to Squeaky, everybody, seeing their production and trying to make something as triumphant as that…Lil Jon, too. I always have that sound in me some way, somehow, some inspiration. So that’s where it comes from too.
It’s not like I just did this. I’ve been a fan of these other producers I look at as my peers. That’s how this sound happens. And I could do some completely different s—t with Larry June, and come back around and do some s—t with Drake. You know? And then Travis Scott. I’m a marksman at this point.
How do you prefer to work? Because you work with certain cats a lot, so I’m always curious, especially in this new era, if most of the work is done over email, FaceTime, in the studio, etc.
I do prefer being hands-on in the session, just because you kind of get more of a vibe of what the artist is trying to do, versus via Zoom, Discord or whatever. The energy don’t even fill the room. That’s how you know that energy is a real thing. It’s always best to be in the same room, especially if you have personalities. It’s best to just get that and bring the best out of it and you make magic because now n—as are more open. You get to break the ice and work more comfortably with each other. It can be awkward when you finally link up [after] you’re just sending things over email or the phone.
What are the benefits of locking in and making an entire project with a rapper?
I blame Dr. Dre, I blame DJ Quik. I look up to the greats. Again, The Legendary Traxster, how he did Adrenaline Rush with Twista, how Quik did Street Gospel with Suga Free. The Chronic was a staple of how a producer can take charge of an entire project. They know how to build a story, they know how to build a concept, and they know what works with different rappers. Doing projects with other producers sometimes throws the balance off. That’s like going on a roller coaster ride and it goes off the rails. You’re forcing it talking about all killas, no fillers and it sounds like all fillers, no killas.
Are you making an album with anybody else that we should know about?
Doing this project with this kid named Nasaan out of Detroit. He’s probably one of the rawest kids coming up out of there right now. I’m also doing some s—t with Wizz Havin, Lil Shimmy, and have been trying to do this project with Luh Tyler this past year. There’s a lot of things — Nutso Thugn out of Atlanta. My objective is to provide new sounds, new artists. There’s too many gatekeepers.
What don’t you like about gatekeepers?
I think it’s lame for artists and producers to have to get approval. The craft should be respected. I hate to be the one that has to come in wrecking s—t, because we ain’t gonna tolerate that s—t no more. You know we ain’t gonna let that slide with a million other motherf—ers coming up that’s still trying to get to the top, that’s trying to provide for their families or just simply have finances. It’s gotta be people like myself that try to help these kids as they try to get somewhere with this music whether it be a producer or a composer or whatever. You gotta practice what you preach.
I wanted to talk about your versatility. Do you feel like you’re underrated?
I feel like I am. People are going to [mimics a crowd of hecklers], man, that’s cool. I feel [I am] on a different level. I do feel like I’m underrated. I’ve been left off these Top five, Top 10 lists, whatever, people fail to mention me. Knowing that I laid a lot of groundwork in this industry for over the last 14, going on 15 years, I deserve a little bit of credit for providing lanes in this s—t too because we came from a whole blogging era where we weren’t getting paid a f—in’ dime. We had to really fight to get paid.
So, for us to have the integrity and the ambition to even keep going, that should tell you a lot about people like myself, Boi1da, Southside, anybody that came from that era. They’ll tell you what this s—t means—[there’s] more of a purpose. It’s not just for myself, it’s for my kids, too—to show them you can keep going and going as long as you don’t stop. Just keep f—in’ going.
I feel like I’m in my LeBron phase right now. I’m 39, but I’m still out here working the court, I’m still in the starting five, I’m still running up and down that bitch for the next 30-45 minutes, trying to put every point up on the board. I’ve been in the gym every damn day, every year, just waiting for the opportunity to show the world exactly what I’ve been doing. So, yeah, I feel like I’m underrated in a lot of aspects.
People fail to realize we’ve really paved a way for a lot of things to take place. At the same time the record reflects that, it proves itself. And then it came to a point where people started asking who the f—k is Cardo? Alright, cool. That’s the campaign. Who the F—k Is Cardo? Just Google me, baby. I’m at a point in my career where I’ve done enough and you’re not going to disrespect me. You’re gonna respect me for the s—t I’ve done in this industry. I’ve never been no rude fella or nothing like that, but my respect is gonna be given. That’s for damn sure. That’s why I’m acting crazy now. It’s the madman on the loose. I gotta set the world on fire.
On your Joker s—t, working with Carti. You got to put some face paint on.
Man, what? I always feel like I’m a villain. I’m Bane right now. I just bought a mask; I’m waiting for it to come in the mail. [Starts talking like Tom Hardy’s Bane.] “You think you can see the darkness? Ohh”.
I’ve been practicing, bro. I’m just waiting to take the stage like Kanye and just take the mic and get my Bane on real quick.
How many tracks do you have on Wiz Khalifa’s Kush & Orange Juice 2?
I just found out about that. I ain’t know nothing about that. Tell Wiz to holla at me though, man. [Laughs.] I was shocked by it, too. You can’t top Kush & Orange Juice, that’s just my opinion.
When I mentioned you were underrated, I wanted to talk about your versatility. You have so many different sounds. You can go crazy with Playboi and you can do records with Drake, then you can smooth it out with some West Coast s—t with Larry June and some Midwest s—t with Payroll Giovanni. It sounds like some Midwest Chicago…Texas sound, Do or Die, West Coast bounce…
Got the mob music mixed with the The Legendary Traxster, Chi-Bangin’ sound. You a knower. A lot of people don’t know that, man. The Midwest sound, that bounce, that Rich the Factor, that [57th Street] Rogue Dog Villains, all the way to that Psycho Drama s—t. I was always inspired by The Legendary Traxster, he’s still one of the GOATs. He actually produced on “Carnival.” That’s somebody I always looked up to, that’s like my big bro. The Alchemist hit me the other day saying, “Whatever you do, do not stop going f—in’ crazy!” I’m running on what my OGs are telling me to do.
You gotta listen to him too because he’s a workhorse. I don’t know if he sleeps. He floods the streets for multiple eras.
He’s been doing this s—t for over 20-plus years, man. He’s seen everything.
He’s not afraid to work with lesser knows acts. You’re similar in that regard.
He pushes the envelope. That’s what I’m saying. I look up to him. If anyone breaks artists that people may not know of on the underground tip, it’s Alan. I see he’s doing a tape with Slump God and I’m like, “What the hell is going on? [Laughs.] I don’t even know what to expect, because Slump God is one of the most abstract artists with his flow and his character. I just want to see how he’s gonna sound on Alan’s production rapping the way he raps. I know it’s gonna be fire, I just want to know what it’s gonna sound like.
You’re on the ScHoolboy album which I think is going to be one of the best rap albums of the year. So I wanted to know your experience. Did it feel special as you were working on it with him?
Hell yeah. Off top, ’cause just based off me and Q’s relationship, that’s my brother from another. We can be real with each other when we’re in the studio. “This s—t wack that, get out here with that.” It’s not like we’re in there making whatever like we’re a yes man operation. This was the last four years. He was working on [Blue Lips] right before CrasH Talk dropped. So, we were already in, we just didn’t know where it was going to go to, like the concept or any of that, we were just making music.
And during that time period, we still had a fresh wound because we had just lost Mac [Miller] a year before. It was like a healing process; we were making music like it was the remedy to it all. Because we both went through it; that was our brother.
Word, you worked with Mac a lot.
That was the first artist I worked with. Before Wiz. A lot of people don’t know that. I reached out to him through MySpace. The first song we did was “Laundromat” back in ‘09. He had the “Mesmerized” beat first and everything. He used to brag about it all the time. Whenever me, him, and Wiz would be together he would say, [mimicking Mac Miller’s voice] “I had the “Mesmerized” beat first. [Laughs.] He’s greatly missed, but we feel his energy every day. He’s the guiding light. The boy was different, he was a robot.
Q recently talked about passing on “Goosebumps.” How did you feel when he passed on that?
That s—t was hilarious. He was…I wanna be real because this is my best friend, we talk to each other like this. I was like, “You crazy as f—k. N—a you passed this s—t up.” Every chance I get, I hold it over his head. That’s just what we do, we talk s—t to each other, that’s my brother. [Mimicking ScHoolboy Q’s voice] “Ah, I wasn’t trying to hear that s—t, I wasn’t tryin’ to do no pop s—t, cuz.” Aight, bet, whatever. We joke about it to this day. He did something to it, he just don’t want nobody to hear it. [Laughs.]
That’s an incredible record. One of the best songs to see performed live.
Me and Yung Exclusive having input in two of the biggest records in rap history with “Goosebumps” and “God’s Plan” is one of those things where you can sit back and reflect on everything that you’ve done and accomplished. This was all work at first and then all of it came to fruition and it pays for itself. People start checking for your work more.
You’ve mentioned that you’re 39 now. With the success of “God’s plan” and “Goosebumps,” do you feel like you’ve gotten better since making those beats?
That’s crazy that you asked me that. Nobody’s ever asked me them kind of questions. So, check this out: I started noticing I was getting better when I started making s—t with the greats like Travis, Dot, and Drake. I would listen to my beats and be like, “F—k, I’m really getting up there.” I’m learning how to make my drums sound clearer, I’m learning how to do this and do that, just on the simple side of things. I used to think it was about overdoing it, but I’ve learned that simplicity is sometimes the best. It’s about balancing things because I can go crazy and then I can go super simple on a beat.
Once I mastered those powers, I can give an artist whatever they need. I became a weapon. That’s why I became a villain. F—k the underrated s—t. I’m an anti-hero. This is the movie where you wanna see the villain win.
That’s why you work with polarizing artists? Lil Yachty is another artist you’ve been working with recently. How has it been working with him? He’s not afraid. He doesn’t give a f—k about nobody’s opinion. He doesn’t care about what you think he’s doing and that’s what I respect about him. I was one of these people, when he came out with “Minnesota,” I thought he was disrespecting my hometown — like, “Who the f—k let this n—a put this s—t out?” And then me and him became cool. It ended up becoming one of those things [where] I seen him as an artist growing, I seen the potential in him, I seen his personality.
I’ve always looked at Yachty as a creator. I put him up there with Tyler almost. His creativity, vision, style, them n—as could both dress. That’s what I like about Boat. He provides a different space in hip-hop because he doesn’t care. Some like Pepsi, some like Coke. That’s how I look at it.
You’ve done things with some R&B artists like Brent Faiyaz recently. Are you looking to get into making more R&B beats?
Hell yeah, of course. Shout to my boy Justice over at LVRN. I’m trying to get in with Summer [Walker] soon.
So once the villain era is over, we’re going to get Certified Lover Boy Cardo?
You’re gonna get the smooth operator. That’s the next concept. I’m creating a universe and I’m trying to figure out these characters. For this album that I’m working on there’s a character called Madman Van Damme based on Jean-Claude Van Damme who’s one of my favorite actors. I’m gonna take ‘em to the Kumite and f—k ‘em up real quick. Even if I get powder in my eyes, I’m still gonna whoop everybody’s ass. [Laughs.] I’m trying to balance everything and at the same time unbalance things too if you catch my drift. I wanna disturb the peace.
