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After contemplating for four years, Smino is ready for the world to hear his debaucherous side. The St. Louis, MO native stopped by Billboard‘s NYC office for an episode of Billboard Gaming, just before the release of his Maybe in Nirvana album arrival on Friday (Dec. 6).

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Maybe in Nirvana is a reflective and experimental album that explores themes of love, loss and self-discovery, while maintaining Smino’s signature innovative style. The project is anticipated to expand his artistic limits, fusing profound lyricism with immersive soundscapes that showcase his evolution as a musician.

We faced off with the rapper in several rounds of Mario Kart while discussing the inspiration behind his album, being an independent artist, and more. “Passenger Princess” has been getting a lot of love. Can you tell us about the creative process for that track and how it was working with Aminé on it?

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It’s cool because one of my favorite ways to end up working with people is just by being their homie. Aminé is a cool dude, so he just texted me and was like, “Hey, Smee bro, I got this song I want you to get on.” I ain’t even respond to him — I just sent it back the same day. That’s how it happened. And he was like, “Oh my God, we got to do a video.”

So it was that simple? Let the track speak for itself and just sent it on over?

Yeah. It was hard. I try to send s–t back as soon as possible. I love doing that s–t. Show people how you focus.

The lyrics of “Passenger Princess” feel personal and laid-back. Was there a specific experience or inspiration behind the song?

I mean, it’s no secret that, you know, I’m a lover boy, so. You feel me? Yeah. I’m just really talking about shorty, you know. Shorty I dealt with, what I learned. For real.

Your upcoming album, Maybe in Nirvana, is set to drop on December 6. How did you decide on this title, and what does it represent for you at this point in your career?

I actually just said “maybe in nirvana” in one of the songs — but honestly, it was an album I was being indecisive about putting out. And I was just like, s–t, well, maybe, you know, when I’m in a place where I’m at peace with my mind, you know, I’d be able to put this album out.

You feel me? ‘Cause I had made this album before I made Luv 4 Rent, the last album I put out.

Oh, so it’s like a bunch of old tracks?

Yeah. Yeah. It’s from 2020. And it’s mixed by Ali. And the pandemic happened, and I just started feeling like, d–n, I need to be like — I don’t know.

I wanted to just talk about peaceful things. I wanted to talk about things that were kind of a little more, I don’t know, thought-provoking. And on this album, it’s a lot more debaucherous. I’m talking about a lot more like — it’s just my young ass mind at work, just saying s–t, not really understanding my emotions and s–t like that. So, I felt like at the time it was just bad timing for it. But then when I went back and listened to it, I’m like, “This s–t is amazing.” Like, it still works.

Since these tracks were mostly from 2020, do you feel like you’ve grown since then, or do you still feel like the same person?

Nah, I definitely grew way much more since then. I was just telling the homie the other day, I feel like — I used to be a lot more ignorant just about s–t, just ’cause I could be. I was kinda like privileged as an artist who had some success, you know, to not have to worry about a lot of stuff in my own personal life. Like, my business ran itself when, truly, there were people running my business, and everything around me just kind of worked out for me.

After the pandemic, s–t — I don’t know if you did or anybody else did, but it forced you to do a lot of reflecting. And like, I was just like, “D–n, I’m low-key out here wilding. And I don’t know a lot of s–t. I don’t know what’s going on here.” I wasn’t hip financially with what I had going on. I knew I had money, but you know, all type of s–t I wasn’t paying attention to.

With Maybe in Nirvana, I was in a place where I’m just full-on rock star — like, fresh off tour, you feel me? Like, f–k it, bro, you know, I ain’t have to worry about s–t. But I think now I just naturally pay way more attention ’cause I’m a little older… You know, the pandemic made everybody age 10 years and s–t.

What can fans expect from Maybe in Nirvana? Are there any particular themes or messages you’re excited to share?

I was just being very honest and very blatant about my emotions. It was like single-era Smee, you know? So, I was having my little roster, talking about, you know, just being — basically, I was just wilding. The music still sounds grown though… a kid in a grown man body, that’s what it sounds like.

So, you mentioned having a roster. Do you still have a roster now, or have you calmed down since then?

Nah, nah, man. I’m chill as hell. I have zero roster. No way. No roster. I don’t need it. There’s only one on the roster.

Okay, so are you dating someone right now?

Oh, yeah. It ain’t no secret. Everybody know that.

What would you say is your favorite song from this new project?

It depends on the day. I’ll probably say the intro. It’s called “Dear Fren.” It’s like the most personal one. I wrote a letter to my grandma and to my little cousin, who both aren’t here anymore. They passed away. So, I’d probably say that song is my favorite personally, but I think everybody’s favorite song is “Taquan.” Because it’s Tequila and Wine, and that’s “Taquan.” Yeah, it sounds like a night in Kingston.

Kingston Jamaica? Why Jamaica?

I don’t know, bro. It’s like, it’s like reggae vibes on the beat and s–t like that. And I’m talking about getting lit. The whole song, I’m talking about getting lit, and I’m also just talking about like, somebody about to leave out of my life. So, I’m just outside, trying to, mask them emotions and s–t.

How’s your relationship with J. Cole?That’s my boy. Good people. Changed my life for sure. Definitely raised my price. Shout out to Jermaine. That’s a good dude.

I was watching one of your interviews earlier, where you mentioned giving Cole a track and then taking it back. Does that happen often?

Never happens. That actually never happens. I ain’t gonna stunt. I was almost scared to ask for it back, because I’m like, “I might blow this.” Blow the whole feature. But it was real cool, and [he] did the video, you know. Invited me to the crib, to his house, his actual home to finish it. He’s a solid dude. He had told me a long time ago that he originally wanted to sign me. And that’s some crazy s–t.

But you know, I’m glad I went my route that I went, you know. I got my own s–t, Zero Fatigue records.

How was it going independent and starting your own label?

It’s a lot more to do, it’s a lot more challenging, but it’s also, it feels good to know that I own my s–t.

It feels good to know I always own my masters. I never gave no masters up, it’s always licensing, but it feels good to own s–t. You just gotta pay a lot more attention to, like, spending money and all that, but it’s cool. It’s my first release independent like this though — this one that’s coming out.

So hopefully you guys support it.

What inspired you to own your own masters?

Ray Charles, no cap. Ray Charles ran up one of the best deals in American history.

So, you knew from the jump that you always wanted to own your own music?

It’s hella funny — this is a random story, my boy Chris Classic can attest. We was on the airplane, my first time ever coming to L.A. This guy, he randomly said –I must’ve looked like an artist to him. But I swear this dude just looked at me on the plane, and he was like, “Bro, never sign your publishing away.” I’m like, “What? What made you say that?” He was like, “Just never sign it.”

I swear it was like a sign or something, because I was literally going out there to talk to, what was it, Post Recordings or something like that? And it’s a publishing company. I’m like, “What the hell?” So, I don’t know, from that day I was just like, “I want to own all my stuff.” Like, I always have been scared.

I heard horror stories. I got family that was in the music industry and s–t like that, that went through a whole lot of s–t, never got paid. I don’t want to be that guy, bro. I’m trying to be around.

You said earlier this is your first album released independently. What challenges have you faced so far?

None. I record myself. I think the only challenge is having to budget — like, that’s some growing-up s–t. So I’ve been having to make sure I pay attention to budgeting myself.

Usually, the label would distribute the funds and all that s–t, give you what you need. But, yeah, I’ve been having to just pay a lot more attention to just little things like that.

Do you feel any pressure when it comes to budgeting?

Nah, man, my manager definitely does a good job of making sure I still feel like I’m just an artist. But being a businessman? It’s fire. I think it’s some fly s–t. It’s something I think I can do. I like challenging myself. Y I’ve been, like, a fire-ass, underground legend for years… at this point, it’s [just] stepping up my business and my business mind and all of that stuff. Like, that’s naturally the progression. I want to be like Hov and s–t like that.

You mentioned being underground — do you think you’re underrated at all?

Hell nah. Man, when people say that, I be like, “D–n, that’s crazy,” because I be getting so much love. You know what I’m saying? But I understand the sentiment and where they’re coming from, you know? The way I feel love, even just being out and about, when I move around, get free drinks where I go and s–t like that. But I get a lot of love, bro.

A lot of love for SminoEarth. I never feel like that.

What’s your goal five years from now? What do you see your experiences being? Where do you see your company going?

Five years? I want to have a new artist out on my own, you know, somebody that I helped break.

I’m working on an art school in St. Louis, starting an actual art school. I want to have some kids. I want my own weed brand. My clothing line, Bjorn, I’m working on that too.

And I still want to be able to perform this music, bruh. Like, I want to do a residency somewhere. A long-ass residency. I want to have, 40 nights in Vegas or some s–t like that. For real. 40 days and 40 nights. That’s what I’m going to call it. I mean, I’m going to perform on Noah’s Ark. On the gang, that’s hard.

A lot of people say that your lyrics are creative and playful. Do you agree?

Yeah, they have been. I’m pretty witty. I hear a word and hear a sentence; like, words sound like a sentence to me. That’s why my wordplay is what it is. The syllables of a word will make a phrase for me. But, I mean, as of late, like all my newer stuff, I don’t know.

I think it’s me growing up, but, like, I’ve been speaking a lot more linear. Like, it’s been a lot more trying to throw out versus, like, wordplay. I don’t know.

You were just on tour with J.I.D. How was that experience?

That was a good tour, bro. That s–t was crazy. Really crazy, actually. We did like a hundred thousand tickets, every night sold out. Yeah, a whole lot of debauchery and moshing going on.

What’s your touring experience like? When you’re finished with a show, what do you do afterward? Do you go out and party, or do you relax after rapping and singing all day?

Yeah, I go chill, bro. There’s no party better than my show — unless it’s an after party, unless somebody wants to give me a hundred bands for what I walk through, some s–t like that.

But I’m not the one that be like in the streets like that. I really be ducking back. Plus, my voice be hurting.

Looking at you now, you have like a fresh, unique style. How does your fashion inspire your music or vice versa? 

The main s–t that inspires me is stuff I’ve never seen before. Or even if I have seen it, just not used in that way, you know? So, like, musically, I always try to — let’s say I got a melody going on — I’m like, “I’m gonna stack that s–t the same way I like to layer my clothes.” You feel me?

I like everything to have layers to it, not just be bland and basic and s–t like that. I think it’s all just personality s–t.

Do you feel like your clothes are a version of you? Like they express who you are without using any words?

Yeah, though, for sure. Like, getting fresh — like, the first time I’m creative in the daytime — that’s the first thing that inspires me, is my outfit. And after that, everything else comes.

A few months ago, I was talking to Dennis Smith Jr., and he said the connection between music and sports is that all the rappers wanna play ball and all the ball players wanna rap. Do you agree?

Hell yeah. Them n—as be tryna rap all the time.

Growing up, did you ever want to play ball?

Football? Yeah, I love football. I love football. I’m a Chiefs fan —go Chiefs! 8-0. The f—k are we talking about?

If you could create an Olympic team for football, but only use music artists, who would you have on your roster?

We’re going to be coached by Missy Elliott. My quarterback will probably be Kendrick Lamar. 

Nah, he the running back, K Dot, because he’s short. And then my quarterback will probably be Monte Booker, the producer. 

Two wide receivers: Young Thug and me are the wide receivers. We doing wide out. Me and Thug, you know what I’m saying? We wild. And then I have all gospel artists on the line because we need God to protect us. 

That’s probably my team, my offensive team. I don’t know what positions I forgot. 

With ten years in the rap game, Kash Doll is finally ready to change her name. The Detroit-based rapper stopped by Billboard‘s NYC office for an episode of Billboard Gaming, just in time for the release of her The Last Doll album arrival on Friday (Nov. 15).The Last Doll marks a deeply personal chapter in her life, showcasing her growth as a woman, a mother of two, and an artist evolving beyond the persona that first brought her into the spotlight. The arrival of her daughter Klarity has been a transformative experience, shaping not only her maturity but also her perspective on life. As she balances motherhood with her thriving career, Kash Doll reflects on her journey, using this album as a powerful expression of her personal and artistic evolution.We faced off with the rapper in several rounds of Mario Kart while discussing the inspiration behind her album, touring, her love for her children, and more.Congratulations on The Last Doll! What inspired the title?It’s just growth. It’s where I’m at in life, you know what I’m saying? So, I’m just tired of the doll. I got two kids. I don’t want to be called a doll no more. I’m just over that.

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You’re dropping “Doll,” so your new name is just Kash?

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I don’t know yet.

Do you have any ideas on your new name?

I don’t know yet. I don’t know if I just want to be Keisha, because that’s my name, or if I want to be Kash, or Big Kash, or KD, or something like that.

When your fans listen to your new album, The Last Doll how do you want them to feel? What message are you trying to express?

You know, I don’t feel like it’d be a body of work no more. It’s so much just singles all in one project, you know what I’m saying?

Mine is just a body of work, and I want them to see growth, evolution. Like, I’ve been in the game for 10 years, so I just want my fans that have been growing with me to just understand who I am and where I’m at now, you know what I’m saying?

Congrats on 10 years. So, the theme of this album is just growth?

It’s growth. It’s lit, though. The album is crazy. I’mma just be 100 percent for real — like, it’s crazy. I got all types of songs on there. It’s got songs about my kids, you know, I’m singing on there. I got different vibes on there, you know what I’m saying? It ain’t just rap; it’s different genres. I got house music on there. I got songs about mental health and loving yourself — stuff like that. So, it’s just a different me.

What’s your favorite song on the album?

My favorite song? I don’t have one. It’s hard to have a favorite song when all of it is fire. It’s hard.

You have an incredible lineup of features on this album.

Oh yeah, they are. The artists are incredible.

How did you go about choosing the artists?

Once I make the song, I can hear certain people, you know what I’m saying? And I reach out and try to get it done. With “Comfy,” I wanted to remake that from Lil Wayne and Babyface, and so I reached out to Tink, and I wanted her on that. 

And we did it. So that’s how that one happened. But most of all my other features — oh, yeah, and “NWA” with Yung Bleu — you know, me and Tracy, we decided we wanted him on a hook. And then we went out there, and we got the hook, and then we did our verses and magic. 

You mentioned you have your kids on this album, so I’m assuming this album is deeply personal to you. How did motherhood play a role in your album?My kids, they just motivated me to make music that I don’t mind them hearing.

Because I make music that I like to hear when I go out and stuff like that. Music I like to hear when I’m riding or when I’m on vacation, you know? Like, it’s a different type of music you want to hear when my kids are in the house, and I don’t have to put a sensor on everything, you know what I’m saying?

So, they motivated me to make a different type of music, even though I’m still her.

Have you played the album for your kids yet?

Nah. Well, Kashton knows his song.

Has it been difficult juggling motherhood and being a music artist?

It’s difficult leaving them. You know what I mean? It’s difficult. It’s hard leaving my kids.

So, do you ever find yourself rushing back home after a day of traveling?

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I miss them, they’re my babies, man.

You’ve been getting into your acting bag. You’ve been on BMF and Diarra From Detroit. How has acting been for you?

Acting is fun. Acting is just like a little more stable when you’re acting. You know what I mean? Like, you don’t have to travel as much and lose stuff all the damn time when you’re traveling. And, you know, be away from my kids, I can kind of just be in one, at least in one state for like a month or two or three or four, you know? So, I kind of enjoy it. It’s longer hours, though, for sure.

Do you ever see yourself creating a soundtrack for a show or for a movie?

Hell yeah. But mine, I’m gonna do movies. I’m about to do that because I’m about to do my baby shit. I’m gonna do music, and I don’t want to move around and do so many shows and stuff like that, you know? I want to be able to sit down, be with my kids. And I’m not missing Kashton’s games when he starts. So everybody got until he starts school. I’m gonna have my fun, go on tour, and do all that, but when my baby starts school, it’s over.

You’re going on tour soon! What can fans expect from your set?

An experience. It’s my first tour. You know, now I get to do my own stage, setting the light. You know, I get to play all my different music. This is my first time. I’m really excited. Ten years, and this is my first tour. And I’m really mad. I shouldn’t have waited this long, but it’s going to be an experience. You’re going to see a doll at work.

Why did you wait 10 years to tour?

I didn’t. I went on tour before in 2019, but I never did my own tour, and I had finally got another tour in 2020, but then COVID happened. Yeah, canceled the whole tour, and then boom, now we’re here. So it’s cool though. I’m gonna build my touring business. I’m gonna build it. It’s cool. I like to start. It’s a grind. It’s a grind for me.

What’s your favorite place to perform?

Damn. That’s hard. ‘Cause the Bay is a time. Milwaukee is a time. Houston is a time.

You’re also known for your fashion, how has fashion influenced your music?

I don’t know. I don’t know how it will influence it, but I just be being myself. I just be myself. I don’t know how my fashion — I don’t know. Am I fashionable? I just put on clothes.

So, you don’t think you’re a fashionable individual?

People say that but I just say where. I go to the mall every other day. This is like my little alone time and I go to the mall looking bummy. I go in the mall with a hoodie on and a scarf. And I be looking crazy. And I be buying up stuff. And then I have it in my closet for when I’m ready to throw on stuff. You know? But I do like fashion. I love all this stuff. I’m just, I don’t know if I’m good at it. But no, it don’t, it don’t influence my music.I’m just me. I don’t know what the hell influence me, people trying to talk s—t. I’ll be like, okay, I got something for you. My kids.

What advice do you have for the upcoming female rappers out there?

First of all, I say, be yourself. You know, everyone else is taken. Be yourself. Um, have morals and dignity in the game. You know what I’m saying? Don’t just do anything. Don’t be so thirsty that you’ll drink poison. Because some people be wanting it so bad, you know, that they’ll sign papers. And it’s me. I’m people.

You’ll sign papers, you know what I’m saying? Without having a lawyer, not knowing what’s going on and all these things. Just know, if it’s for you, it’s going to happen regardless. Do not just be desperate for this s—t. And be yourself. That’s what I’ll say, because I wish you might have said that to me earlier, but I don’t know if I would have listened, because experience teaches you things way different from someone telling you, you know what I mean?

Yeah. That’s interesting. I interviewed Ja Rule like two weeks ago. He said the exact same thing: “Be yourself.” Do you feel like some people in the industry now are lacking authenticity?

Yeah. Because they want to do what they think is popping right now, or, you know, what they see that everybody is gravitating to.

But at the same time, it’s like, be yourself, your time will come. Just be yourself. And that’s me. That’s why I stay in my lane, and I just do me, because my time’s going to come. If God wants me to have a time, you know what I’m saying? I’m living in my—maybe this is it. But, however, I’m being myself, and it feels good.

I’m having a good time instead of just doing whatever I think needs to be done to be her, you know, put the work in, of course, but be yourself.