Radio
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The business of music has transformed in the last two decades, driven by technology that shattered barriers to entry and creators’ determination to control their destiny. At the 66th Grammy Awards earlier this year, more than half of the nominees were independent. And it’s more than just business: the indie movement has enabled diverse voices that could not be heard previously to occupy their rightful place in the industry. This makes music, and our society, more egalitarian and better.
Whether blues, punk, hip-hop or country, America’s most recognizable music genres started out in the indie sector, and today the association I lead has more than 750 members across 35 states, and most of them are small businesses with less than 50 employees. As the music industry has changed, so have they.
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Yet, some of the most important players in the music ecosystem cling to a bygone era that was dictated by the motto, “Might Makes Right.”
Exhibit A is iHeartRadio. The corporate behemoth controls 860-plus stations across the country that play over 50 million songs a year. Those songs helped iHeart’s multiplatform group — covering broadcast radio and national sales — generate more than $2.4 billion in 2023 alone, according to its latest earnings report.
But iHeart is stuck in 1990. It doesn’t bother discovering new artists. Instead, it overplays the hits and milks classic songs that were released decades ago. Despite the growing movement to achieve economic justice, iHeart denies artists and labels payment for their work.
Take a moment to reflect on that. iHeart makes $12 billion a year playing music but refuses to pay the hard working and talented people who perform and produce the songs that are the reason consumers tune-in in the first place. In its desperate attempt to cling to the past, iHeart and lobbyist group the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) have spent nearly $100 million since 2020 lobbying Congress and spreading campaign contributions around to maintain the unfair status quo.
iHeart is powerful. But it’s on the wrong side of history. And it’s about to face what it hates most: a public forum where broadcasters must defend their craven practices. On Wednesday (June 26), the House Judiciary Committee will hold a hearing on the refusal of broadcasters to pay music creators for their work.
Richard James Burgess speaks onstage during the GRAMMY Influencer Activation at GRAMMY House during the 66th GRAMMY Awards on Feb. 1, 2024 in Los Angeles.
Jerod Harris/Getty Images for The Recording Academy
Of course, iHeartMedia CEO Bob Pittman won’t testify. He leaves the dirty work to the NAB. But that doesn’t matter. When the issue of compensation for AM/FM airplay is held in a public forum, broadcasters lose. That is why their lobbyists work so hard to prevent congressional hearings. But courageous members of Congress such as Reps. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) and Jerry Nadler (D-NY) are making sure there is a public debate. And they have a solution to ending the injustice: the American Music Fairness Act, which would grant an AM/FM performance royalty. This bill would bring AM/FM radio into the 21st Century, and finally grant American recording artists the same rights enjoyed by their counterparts in almost every other country on the planet.
In the last two decades, how we discover and listen to music has dramatically changed, and not just the move from vinyl records to streaming. We can now ask a device in our house, such as Alexa, to play music, and it does. Spotify and SiriusXM are now buttons next to AM/FM on the dashboard of our cars. Polling from 2020 found that of the people who regard staying up to date on new music as important to them, only 11% turn to AM/FM radio to do so. Even in my generation, that number is only 27%. OK, Boomers!
We need to update the laws to catch up to these changes. It makes no sense if, when driving, music creators heard on SiriusX are being compensated, but not if you hear them on an AM/FM station. If you listen to radio programming through the iHeartMedia app on your phone, through a smart speaker, or even in your car, iHeart has to pay creators too. That’s why they have their hand out to Congress asking for a mandate to keep AM radios in cars.
The American Music Fairness Act brings justice and balance to the industry. Music creators get paid for their work. AM/FM stations have to pay just like the streaming services. And, because the legislation protects truly local radio stations, most stations in the country would pay just $10 to $500 a year to play music.
I know independent music creators, who I represent as president and CEO of the American Association of Independent Music, could definitely use the income from those royalties. My members love partnering with true locally controlled community radio stations, but the behemoths usually don’t take their calls. There are hundreds of thousands of artists and other creators who hustle and struggle to make a living by giving us the music we love.
This approach is fair, it’s equitable, and it’s just. And iHeart hates it.
Broadcasters try to create as much fear, uncertainty, and doubt to avoid doing what’s right. They claim a $500 annual fee to play music would decimate stations’ ability to broadcast emergency communications – then they hike the annual dues it charges its members. They cling to the asinine rationale that the alleged promotional value of radio play justifies their immoral scheme. Worse, broadcasters claim they shouldn’t have to pay for the songs they play while demanding Congress get more money for them when their content is used by YouTube and other platforms.
Broadcasters do all of this with a straight face. But time is running out. When the arc of justice comes around, iHeart and the National Association of Broadcasters will learn they are on the wrong side of history.
Dr. Richard James Burgess is an acclaimed musician, singer, songwriter, record producer, composer, author, manager, marketer and inventor, who presently serves as the president and CEO of the American Association of Independent Music (A2IM).
Sirius XM Holdings announced a 1-for-10 reverse stock split for its shareholders when it merges with Liberty Media’s SiriusXM Group tracking stock later this year, sending the streaming and satellite radio company’s stock up 4.5% on Tuesday (June 18). The stock split, which was announced in a filing on Sunday (June 16), is meant to […]
The Museum of Broadcast Communications has announced the selection of eight new inductees into the Radio Hall of Fame for 2024 – The Crook & Chase Countdown (Lorianne Crook and Charlie Chase), Lee Harris, Phil Hendrie, Jaime Jarrin, Kraig Kitchin, Barry Mayo, Mary McCoy and Matt Siegel.
Six of the eight inductees were determined by a voting participant panel comprised of more than 900 industry professionals. The remaining two inductees – Kitchin and Mayo – were voted on by the Radio Hall of Fame nominating committee.
Kitchin is co-chair of the Radio Hall of Fame. Mayo is a former radio executive at WRKS in New York, RKO General, Emmis Broadcasting and Radio One. He is credited with helping to launch WRKS in New York as the first station to play rap.
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Dennis Green, co-chair of the Radio Hall of Fame, said: “The Radio Hall of Fame welcomes eight new members that have made a lasting impact on the industry. … These individuals have entertained, informed, and enriched listeners with their special talents, and it is an honor to recognize them as the Radio Hall of Fame Class of 2024.”
2024 Radio Hall of Fame nominees who were not chosen this year are: Bert Weiss, Big D & Bubba, Big Tigger, Bob and Sheri, Bob Stroud, Dede McGuire, Diane Rehm, Free Beer and Hot Wings, Funkmaster Flex, John & Ken, Johnny Magic, Kid Leo, Larry Elder, Laurie DeYoung, Lincoln Ware, Mojo in the Morning, Richard Blade and Shelley “The Playboy” Stewart.
The 2024 Radio Hall of Fame inductees will be honored at the in-person 2024 Radio Hall of Fame induction ceremony on Thursday, Sept. 19 at the Omni Nashville Hotel in Nashville. Tickets are on sale now at: www.radiohalloffame.com. A portion of the ticket price is a tax-deductible charitable donation to the Museum of Broadcast Communications.
The Radio Hall of Fame was founded by the Emerson Radio Corporation in 1988. The Museum of Broadcast Communications took over operations of the Hall in 1991. Each year, 24 nominations in six categories are determined by the organization’s nominating committee.
Jeremy Tepper, a musician, journalist and the program director of SiriusXM’s Outlaw Country channel, has died. He was 60.
Tepper passed away on Friday (June 14) from a heart attack at his home in New York City, according to a social media post by his wife, singer-songwriter Laura Cantrell.
“Lost my good friend Jeremy Tepper last night,” Steven Van Zandt, guitarist in Bruce Springsteen’s E Street Band and founder of Underground Garage, wrote on X (formerly Twitter). “An incredibly tragic loss so young. He ran my Outlaw Country station on SiriusXM brilliantly. It is actually quite a complicated format and he made it look easy. Our deepest love and condolences to Laura and his family and friends.”
Lost my good friend Jeremy Tepper last night. An incredibly tragic loss so young. He ran my Outlaw Country station on SiriusXM brilliantly. It is actually quite a complicated format and he made it look easy. Our deepest love and condolences to Laura and his family and friends. pic.twitter.com/WA8tj3kkA1— 🕉🇺🇦🟦Stevie Van Zandt☮️💙 (@StevieVanZandt) June 15, 2024
Born in 1963, the New York native graduated with a degree in journalism from NYU and served as the frontman for the band World Famous Blue Jays.
During his career, Tepper founded independent country label Diesel Only Records and held A&R and marketing positions for CDuctive and eMusic.com. He was also a journalist, having previously served as editor of The Journal of Country Music and as a country music critic for Tower Records’ Pulse! magazine.
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In 2004, he joined Sirius as format manager of the radio giant’s Outlaw Country channel, which was created by Zandt, who served as its executive producer. The channel mixes music by country and Americana artists such as Waylon Jennings, Dale Watson, Dwight Yoakam, Johnny Cash and Lucinda Williams with rockers Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen and the Band.
Tepper’s two-decade run with Sirius also found him working on the Willie’s Roadhouse and Road Dog Trucking channels.
“Jeremy Tepper, a beloved member of SiriusXM, profoundly influenced us with his unwavering dedication to music and innovative spirit,” SiriusXM wrote on X. “His contributions, in shaping Outlaw Country and Willie’s Roadhouse, are beyond measure. Our thoughts are with his loved ones during this time.”
Tepper is survived by his wife, Cantrell, and their daughter, Bella.
Jeremy Tepper, a beloved member of SiriusXM, profoundly influenced us with his unwavering dedication to music and innovative spirit. His contributions, in shaping Outlaw Country and Willie’s Roadhouse, are beyond measure. Our thoughts are with his loved ones during this time. pic.twitter.com/rZxB8LZHsS— SiriusXM (@SIRIUSXM) June 15, 2024
Six years after the death of Avicii, the producer is getting a SiriusXM channel centered around his catalog. On Thursday (May 23), SiriusXM announced Avicii Radio, now available exclusively via the SiriusXM app. The channel features Avicii classics, remixes and never-before-heard music from past live performances. The channel will also play music by the producer’s […]
Steve Angello is bringing his selector skills to SiriusXM. The producer and Swedish House Mafia member is launching a new program, “Size Sound System,” on the SiriusXM station Diplo’s Revolution starting Monday night (May 20) at 9 p.m. ET. Hosted by Angello and the producer AN21 (who is also Angello’s younger brother, Antoine Josefsson), the […]
iHeartMedia shares fell 36.1% on Thursday after the company’s first-quarter earnings showed continued uncertainty in broadcast advertising mixed with improvements in its digital business.
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iHeartMedia’s loss of 12 cents per share bested analysts’ estimate of a loss of 55 cents per share, according to MarketWatch, and its revenue ($799 million) and adjusted earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization ($105 million) both fell within the guidance it provided.
CEO Bob Pittman and COO and CFO Rich Bressler reminded listeners to Thursdays’ earnings call that the first quarter is historically the slowest period of the year. They also reiterated the company’s optimism about 2024 and the expected benefits of political advertising in the second half of the year.
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“Although the marketplace continues to be dynamic, with a changing outlook on interest rates, inflation trends and global and domestic uncertainty, we remain confident that this is a recovery year highlighted by the strong momentum and our podcast business and the sequential improvement of our multi platform groups year over year adjusted EBITDA performance,” said Pittman.
The current quarter may be an improvement over the first quarter, but iHeartMedia doesn’t expect much improvement over 2023. Thursday’s guidance for Q2 revenue as “approximately flat” compared to the prior-year quarter’s revenue of $920 million was slightly below analysts’ consensus of $935 million, according to Zacks Equity Research. April revenue is expected to be down 0.4%, Bressler said, and the multi-platform group’s gross revenue is expected to be down “mid-single digits” in the second quarter.
iHeartMedia shares dropped to $1.38 on Thursday, bringing their year-to-date loss to 48.3%. Thursday’s closing price was 70.8% below the stock’s 52-week high of $4.73 established on July 31, 2023.
Another blemish was the first quarter’s free cash flow (FCF) was negative $88 million, although it was improvement from negative $133 million in the prior-year quarter. First-quarter FCF did not include the $101 million iHeartMedia received from the sale of BMI to New Mountain Capital in February.
Total revenue of $799 million was down 1.5% from the prior-year period. The multi-platform group, which includes iHeartMedia’s broadcast radio networks and events business, suffered the biggest declines: revenue fell 6.7% to $493 million and adjusted EBITDA dropped 11% to $77 million.
Led by growth in podcasts, digital audio group revenue rose 7.0% to $239 million and adjusted EBITDA jumped 25.9% to $68.1 million. In the audio and media services division, revenue improved 12.7% to $69.2 million and adjusted EBITDA soared 54.4% to $23.7 million.
A diss-track battle between two of the world’s biggest hip-hop stars has led to cryptic allegations that Drake directed his heavyweight record label to yank a hit featuring Kendrick Lamar from the airwaves. But would such a move be possible?
Probably not, say legal experts who study broadcast rights and the music business. “As a general law, broadcast stations have a lot of discretion over what they put on the air — almost unlimited discretion,” says Charles Naftalin, a Washington, D.C., attorney for Holland & Knight who specializes in telecommunications law. “A station is virtually free to pick and choose what it wants.”
Lamar’s new song “euphoria,” which he released April 30, alleges Drake and Republic had attempted to “try cease and desist on the ‘Like That’ record” — a reference to the recent Future–Metro Boomin hit containing a Lamar verse that attacks last year’s Drake-J. Cole track “First Person Shooter,” and helped spark the recent back-and-forth between the two rappers. Then a screenshot of an alleged email appeared on social media purporting to be from a Republic business-affairs executive declaring “we are not granting radio rights” for “Like That.” (Reps for Republic and Universal Music Group, the label’s parent company, did not respond to requests for comment, and the screenshot could not be verified.)
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Hypothetically, if Lamar’s lyrical allegation were true, and the Republic exec’s email were legitimate, how could a label, even the home of Taylor Swift, Morgan Wallen, The Weeknd and Post Malone, which has the industry’s largest market share, pull off such a move? One conceivable explanation stems from the fact that “Like That” is an unusual business collaboration — it’s a joint release from competing major labels, Universal-owned Republic and Sony-owned Epic. The former is Metro Boomin’s label; the latter is Future’s label. (Adding confusion to the affair: Lamar records for Interscope, also owned by UMG, so he is, in a very broad sense, Drake’s labelmate.)
Because Republic had a hand in releasing “Like That,” it is conceivable — though extremely unlikely — that the company could demand that radio stations stop playing its own song. “I don’t readily see a legal reason to request takedown from radio solely based on certain lyrics being in the song,” says Matt Buser, an attorney who represents top artists and music companies. “However, there could be a justified legal reason for takedown based on the promotional grant of rights and understanding between the two collaborating labels.”
Like Buser, Larry Kenswil, a retired top business and legal affairs executive for UMG, has no idea what is in the contractual agreement between Republic and Epic for “Like That.” (A rep for Sony, Epic’s parent company, also did not respond to a request for comment.) But he’s certain that Republic has no right to demand a radio takedown. If Lamar’s “euphoria” lyric about a cease-and-desist is true, Kenswil says, “The artist [Drake] complained to the label [Republic] and the label felt like they had to do something to satisfy the artist. But, of course, we probably don’t have the full story.”
He adds: “That happens all the time. Artists tell their lawyers: ‘Send a cease-and-desist.’ The lawyer says, ‘Uh, I don’t think they’re doing anything wrong.’ ‘Send a cease-and-desist or I’ll fire you.’ And they send the cease-and-desist — and don’t follow up.’” Evidence on behalf of Kenswil’s theory: “Like That” not only came out, but radio played the track, it debuted at No. 1 on the Hot 100 and remained there for three weeks. And as of this writing, “Like That” is No. 21 on the all-genre Radio Songs chart.
Crook & Chase, Diane Rehm, Larry Elder and Richard Blade are among the well-known radio professionals who are nominated for the Radio Hall of Fame. Howard Stern, who has long had a love/hate relationship with the institution, is not among the 24 nominees announced today by The Museum of Broadcast Communications. The nominees were chosen […]
Def Leppard’s first two albums vaulted five boys from working-class Sheffield, England to the vanguard of the new wave of British heavy metal. On 1983’s Pyromania, the quintet set their sights even higher. “There’s no point in trying to appeal to half the population,” bassist Rick Savage tells Billboard. “Why not appeal to 100% of the population?”
With ace producer Robert John “Mutt” Lange back in the studio after 1981’s High ‘n’ Dry, Def Leppard crafted a technically sophisticated album of hard chugging yet melodic songs that catapulted them onto radio waves and stages usually reserved for pop stars. Prior to Pyromania, the music industry had been reluctant to invest in metal; an article in the April 14, 1984, Billboard quoted a radio executive who described “a longhaired kid wearing a torn Def Leppard shirt” as “the kind of person you wouldn’t want in your store.”
After Pyromania, radio and record labels couldn’t ignore the growing genre any longer. Pyromania went all the way to No. 2 on the Billboard 200 (soaring past their previous peak of No. 38), produced two Mainstream Rock Airplay No. 1s (“Photograph” for six weeks and “Rock of Ages”) and gave the band three top 30 Billboard Hot 100 hits (the aforementioned singles plus “Foolin’”).
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The album’s blockbuster success — which also eventually included a diamond RIAA certification for over 10 million units shipped — paved the way for the pop-metal crossover of bands like Bon Jovi, Guns N’ Roses and Poison, and set Def Lep up for a long, fruitful career. In 2022, the still-active band became only the third group to notch a top 10 album on the Billboard 200 in every decade since the ‘80s.
Ahead of the 40th anniversary edition of Pyromania (out April 26), Savage and frontman Joe Elliott hopped on a Zoom call with Billboard to pull back the curtain on the making of the classic — as well as share thoughts on a former CMT Crossroads collaborator who has since become the biggest pop star in the world.
Pyromania had the same producer, Mutt Lange, as the album that came out before it, High ‘n’ Dry. Even so, that one feels a bit rawer compared to Pyromania. Was it a conscious decision to give the album a cleaner production?
Rick Savage: Yeah, absolutely, from day one. I mean, I don’t know if I’d call it clean. What we really set out to do was create this a wall of sound. High ‘n’ Dry was very much in your face and very aggressive. It was our first album with Mutt and he got us ultra-focused in creating a rock song. With Pyromania, we wanted to take a lot of elements of that but develop the harmonies, banks of vocals, banks of guitars, just everything very multitracked and very orchestral. And I think that’s the biggest thing, apart from the songs, which were obviously more developed and had a lot more nuances to them. Basically, the progression from High ‘n’ Dry is creating a wall of melodic mayhem, if you like.
Joe Elliott: Yeah, that’s a good way of putting it. The obvious observations for those two records is that High ‘n’ Dry sounds like a band playing live and Pyromania sounds like a band in the studio — à la Pink Floyd, à la the Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper — that sat down to craft some songs. They’re not just, “Okay, hit the record button and play it live.” That’s what High ‘n’ Dry sounds like — even though it actually wasn’t, because we did that in bits and bobs. But it has that impression.
Technology was starting to change. Recording studios in 1981 were pretty much the same as they were in 1979. Recording studios in 1982, ’83, there’s new bits of equipment coming in on a daily basis that can do things: synthesizers, drum machines. Drum machines were a big part of the music industry, with The Human League and New Order. We were using this kind of stuff, but most rock bands weren’t. And the great thing about having Mutt on your side is he’d be very enthusiastic about saying, “Well, why not? Why can’t a rock band…” and then fill in whatever phrase you want. It would be like [why can’t a rock band] “use that technology that these arty pop bands are using within the field of rock and see where it gets you”? We didn’t want to make High ‘n’ Dry 2.
I was looking through the Billboard archives, and an article from 1984 postulated that a lot of Def Leppard’s appeal was connected to youth. Other metal acts at the time – Ozzy, Motörhead, whatever – were in their thirties, but you guys were a bit younger and maybe more attractive to girls. Is that something you were aware of back in the day?
Savage: God, yeah, absolutely. It was always 50-50, and in some cases, actually more girls than boys. There is a youthfulness to it, but it’s the music actually — we were just slightly different from the standard heavy metal, if you like. You mentioned Motörhead and Ozzy — two fantastic acts, don’t get me wrong, but they were very definitely of a certain sound. We were trying to expand on that and appeal to a wider range.
We want to appeal to as many people as we can. There’s no point in trying to appeal to half the population — why not appeal to 100% of the population? All of a sudden, from Pyromania onwards, so many women and girls came to our shows. And it’s just testament to the actual songs, because they’re the things that get people first interested, and then everything else follows from that.
Elliott: We are a weird band in that respect, because we’ve always wanted to be honest with people. When you are five kids from Sheffield and you want to get up on stage and play rock music, there’s an oomph to it. It’s got a feeling that I don’t think — with the greatest respect to, say, the Human League, when we opened for them one night in their embryonic stage, they’re behind plexiglass sheets with keyboards. It doesn’t really have that Townshend windmill factor to it. It’s always fun to play the rock stuff, you know, “Highway to Hell” or “Tie Your Mother Down.”
But honestly, when we were in the factory rehearsing before we even played our first gig, we’d be talking about music way different than what we were playing. Me and Sav instantly bonded over the fact that we loved Kate Bush. Or the first two Peter Gabriel albums, which we were listening to way more than Motörhead. I don’t think Motörhead ever sat up a rehearsal room and had a discussion about “Wuthering Heights,” whereas we would. We always wanted it to be a glam rock, power guitar thing: Bowie, Slade, Sweet, Queen. That’s the fun element.
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That sophistication is especially apparent on “Photograph,” which is very well constructed. Speaking of, I know “Bringin’ on the Heartbreak” got some MTV play, but “Photograph” was a huge staple for the channel. Was that on your minds at the time, using this new marketing tool to hit a wider audience?
Savage: I don’t think so. It kind of happened in reverse. We weren’t really trying to market anything or become influenced by the latest media thing. We just got picked up from it, and we were fortunate in that respect. Before Pyromania was released, we knew that videos were coming to the fore. MTV was getting more and more popular, so it was just an obvious thing to do. We made two videos, one for “Photograph” and one for “Rock of Ages.” That was done in December of ’82, the album didn’t come out till early ‘83.
Elliott: Yeah, there’s no doubt that when we were making the album, the last thing on our mind was worrying about, “Oh, we got to make videos.” The one that really started to get a bit of traction was “Bringin’ on the Heartbreak.” In London, we’d start receiving the odd phone call from management in New York saying, “Oh, yeah, they played ‘Bringin’ on the Heartbreak’ 40 times on MTV last week.” “Okay, interesting.” Then you three weeks later you get another message saying that High ‘n’ Dry started selling again. Three weeks later, you get another message: “Bloody hell, it’s selling 50,000 a week.” By the end of the year, we’re getting this message that it’s gone gold, so we know that this is not going gold because the radio — it’s gone gold because of MTV. We were just getting little messages as we’re [making] the [Pyromania] album. It’s like a mosquito in your ear, like, “Yeah, okay, fine.”
“Bringin’ on the Heartbreak’ knocked on the door, but “Photograph” kicked it off its f–king hinges. It was the combination of radio — the song was absolutely produced to sound good on FM, there’s no doubt, it was Mutt Lange’s job to do that — and the video. By the time we got to America, we’re getting our head around the fact that this MTV thing is really a big deal. By the time we got on tour, the first thing we would do is check into the hotel and try to find it. It’s like, you can’t believe that there’s this 24-hour rock video channel — because as kids we had 30 minutes of Top of the Pops on a Thursday and an hour of the [The Old Grey] Whistle Test if you were allowed to stay up to watch bearded musicians play bearded music. That’s when we really realized the value of it. When we were delivering the videos, it was on the advice of people going, “You got to do this.”
As you were saying about youth, because we were all 21, 22 years old, when somebody says, “You got to spend a day in Battersea Power Station shooting videos,” you go, “Great.” We learned after the fact that a lot of seasoned bands from the ‘70s were reluctant to do them, which is why a lot of videos by bands from the ‘70s that were presented in the ‘80s were crap. I think the only band that really grasped the nettle when they came back with a resurgence was Aerosmith. Really, they did a brilliant job with videos. But lots of other bands were like, “I don’t see why we’re having to do this.” We were the next generation, and started to realize, “This is almost as important as making the record.”
Speaking of TV and “Photograph,” fast forward about 25 years. You’re on CMT Crossroads with a very young Taylor Swift singing that song. Did you ever think, “This person is going to become the biggest pop star in the world?”
Savage: She was pretty big then, to be honest. It was unbelievable that somebody had such youth, but almost like an old head on young shoulders when she came to songwriting. It was actually quite eye-opening. It was great fun; it was a bit of a laugh. She’s quite popular now, isn’t she? But trust me, she was pretty popular then as well. I mean, not to the level she’s at now, obviously — but within the country scene she was as big as they came. It was a really great experience working with her and the band. She had a great band back then as well.
Elliott: We were together for a week in Nashville for rehearsals. We were just so very impressed with Taylor — because, as you know, the album 1989 is called that because that’s year she was born. So basically, in the womb, she was listening to Pyro and Hysteria, because her mom was a big fan. She was born to Def Leppard, basically. [Prior to CMT Crossroads] we saw this article where she said, “There’s only one band I would do Crossroads with,” and it was us. We were beyond flattered and management said, “We should get in touch with her management to see if she actually really means it.” And she did.
What impressed me the most was that when we got to the table of like, which songs we’re going to do, she wanted to do a lot of [Songs From the] Sparkle Lounge. I’m thinking, “She’s heard that song?” And then “Two Steps Behind” got pulled out, which wasn’t going to be suggested, but she says, “I want to do that one.”
It’s all very logical and all very organic. It really was. I got to sing “Love Story,” bits from the perspective of a guy. She was really enthusiastic and obviously a big fan. And we became fans of her. I think we’d all be lying if we said we knew she was going to become as big as she has because she’s actually become bigger than anything that’s ever been before. She’s probably bigger than The Beatles and The Stones combined, for her generation of fans. I’ll probably get lynched by some 75-year-old reading this, but it’s all relative.
Today it’s all about the streaming numbers and all that kind of stuff. There’s been a lot of massively successful bands, but she’s taken success to a level that is unheard of. It’s absolutely mad. It’s success beyond anything that anybody could have ever dreamed of, probably her herself. I’ve seen the Eras film and it’s astonishing what she’s done. I hope she works with us again one day. [Laughs.]
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I’ve read that “Rock of Ages” has a back-masked message of “F—k the Russians” on it. I wanted to ask if that was true, and if so, what inspired that.
Savage: [Laughs.]
Elliott: There’s a lot of backwards stuff in the middle of the solo, because we had we discovered all these toys that could instantly do things backwards. This is what I was talking about with the technology. It was 1982, England was at war with Argentina over the Falklands, and there was the Cold War, which was always on the horizon. You know, you read in the paper, Brezhnev this, and whoever the American was in it, Reagan. You’d be reading about it and we were just jokingly saying things on the mic and would just turn it around backwards. And it wasn’t what you said, it was how it sounded backwards. It’s like, “That sounds really weird, shove it in the solo!” What was more important was how it sounded the other way around. In fairness, one of the words was “a—hole” backwards, and it just went really well within the melody of the solo, you know?
Savage: The song is so sparse and open. We needed cues as guitar players as to when we’re going to come in because we didn’t have a vocal at the time. It was very easy to get lost in, because we’re just playing it to a drum machine. A lot of the stuff was there as cues to when the next part was coming up, of which “gunter gleiben glauchen globen” was one of them. It was much like saying, “1-2-3-4, here comes the bridge” sort of thing. So yeah, there was a load of stuff going down on that particular song, just to keep us interested.
Elliott: Yeah, absolutely. Like you said, this was born out of cabin fever, because this was the first time that we’d been in a studio doing 22-hour days, six days, maybe seven days a week and we’re probably into month six or seven so you start to go a bit ’round the bend. You start doing crazy stuff. People always mock rock bands for being silly, but I’ve read so many articles about what you might call sophisticated artists doing stuff just as stupid because they had cabin fever. The Beatles, Clapton, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, just doing goofy s–t in the studio because it relieves the tension, relieves the boredom.