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Billboard Japan’s Women in Music initiative launched in 2022 to celebrate artists, producers and executives who have made significant contributions to music and inspired other women through their work, in the same spirit as Billboard’s annual Women in Music celebration that has continued since 2007. This interview series featuring female players in the Japanese entertainment industry is one of the highlights of Japan’s WIM project, with the first 30 sessions published as a “Billboard Japan Presents” collection by writer Rio Hirai.

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Ayaka Wada chatted with Hirai for the latest installment of the WIM interview series. The former member of the Hello! Project idol group Angerme currently continues her music career as a solo artist while also actively sharing her thoughts on art and feminism. The 30-year-old elaborated on the discomfort she felt as a member of a popular idol group and on why she is vocal about changing the norms of the industry and society now that she is free to speak her mind.

You began your career as an idol performer when you were 15 years old. How did you end up going down that road?

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I auditioned for Hello! Project when I was in fourth grade and started out as a trainee. After five years of training, I made my debut as a member of S/mileage in 2010. The group later changed its name to Angerme and I also experienced being the leader.

Before you actually made it, did you long to become an idol?

You know what, I never aspired to become an idol. My dad is a doting parent, and he was like, “My child is cute so she’ll be accepted anywhere,” and kept sending in applications without asking me. I was shy around new people and bashful, so I was like, “I can’t stand on stage and sing and dance!” and was thinking of quitting when I entered junior high. But as I was thinking how I didn’t want to get in trouble with my parents, I ended up making my debut, and before I knew it, I’d come to a point where I couldn’t turn back. My environment changed after my debut and I had to interact with more people, so that made me more responsible. I felt that as long as there were people paying to see us, we had to make sure we didn’t mess up.

So you ended up becoming an idol group member without really intending to. Were you able to fit in with the image of “idols” that people around you expected?

Being “idol-like” has a lot in common with the concept of “femininity.” You have to keep your legs closed and not cross them, you have to keep smiling, you’re discouraged from expressing your own opinions and talking about politics or religion is strictly forbidden. It felt like society’s old-fashioned gender roles were still deeply rooted in the industry and being expected to be idol-like, i.e. feminine, made me feel more and more uncomfortable. So I kept thinking that I had to overcome this somehow or I wouldn’t be able to live as myself as I continued my idol career.

Did you ever feel uncomfortable with your femininity outside of your work as an idol?

I used to go to Tokyo from my hometown when I had work, but moved there when I entered university. From then on, it felt like I’d been thrown into society, and I became more and more aware of my gender as a woman. I was attending a women’s university and used to wear whatever I liked without worrying about how men saw me, but was often approached on the street at night when wearing pink or floral clothes and it was scary… I thought, “Maybe this is the wrong way to dress,” and started wearing jeans and T-shirts, and wasn’t approached on the street when I did so. I thought this was connected to the discomfort I felt about femininity. But at the time, I wasn’t able to verbalize that I was being forced to conform to the idea of femininity that people around me had in their minds, and it’s like I’ve always been searching for and researching the true nature of the discomfort I felt in my life and in my idol career.

How did you figure out the true nature of the discomfort you were feeling?

I learned about feminism at university. It was a women’s university, so there was a lot of emphasis on women’s education, and there were classes that helped us think about how to build a career that would allow us to become independent. In the French art classes I was taking, I also learned about how artists had been treated according to their gender. The biggest shock I got was when I learned the famous line, “One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman” from Simone de Beauvoir’s The Second Sex in a French literature class and realized that this was the reason of my discomfort. After that, I went to the library and read all kinds of books on feminism.

You were a member of Angerme at the time, so you must have been living with a disconnect between that knowledge you were inputting and the required output in your work life.

My feelings and actions were always completely the opposite. While going back and forth between these opposing views, I discovered that idols are social existences rather than individual ones. I tried my best thinking I could change the world of idols too somehow, but it was hard to do by myself. I decided to “graduate” from the group because I thought that I couldn’t realize what I wanted to do while I still belonged to the company.

What did you do to approach those concerns?

While idols are existences that are produced, each person wants to express something different, so I was hoping we’d be treated as individuals, including during our private lives. Being young, innocent and cute was considered important, and growing up wasn’t a good thing. We couldn’t even grow out our bangs. Under those circumstances, I continued to take a grassroots approach like making leaflets saying, “Why can’t I express myself as I am?” and handing it out to the staff. I didn’t get any outward response, but there was a staff member who told me secretly that they “all passed it around and read it.” That was in 2018 and the concepts of “diversity” and “gender” weren’t as well known in (Japanese) society as they are now, so my actions may have seemed abrupt. I’m starting to notice changes now. There are more variations in expressions such as hair and makeup and costumes. Labor standards are also being questioned, and I’ve heard that more and more talent agencies are setting up mental health consultation services.

When you decided to go solo, what kind of message did you want to send out to whom?

People belonging to a younger generation than myself. When I was in a group, all my comments about feminism were cut. “I want to consider how women should be,” was the limit. But I want to think about the issues of idols and feminism, and to create a working environment where everyone can have peace of mind. The thing that surprised me the most about making those kinds of comments after going solo was the support I received from my fans. On social media, there are still people who don’t think well of women who speak out, but I know now that I have lots of allies and feel that as long as I have these people I can continue to speak out.

It must be reassuring to feel the presence of allies around you. There may be people out there who struggle because they can’t find like-minded communities. What do you think should be done in such cases?

It’d be best if you could connect with people in real life, but now, “in-person” isn’t your only option. When I was an idol, I didn’t use the word feminism when talking with the other members and felt lonely sometimes, but it helped to look at posts on social media by people who felt the same way as me. So, even if you can’t connect with people in real life, I hope you find another place where you can belong. Books and art can also become places where your mind can belong, and you’ll feel protected. When you come across someone with different views, express your feelings by saying, “I don’t think so” without getting swept away, and that simple comment can protect your mind. In my case, I release the emotions that have built up in my mind by putting them into words as song lyrics.

How do you think we can eliminate gender imbalances within the entertainment industry as a whole?

I want people who are in the public eye, the staff members, and the fans, regardless of gender, to join this conversation. If we can visualize what everyone is thinking, including men as well as women, then I think changes will take place. 

—This interview by Rio Hirai (SOW SWEET PUBLISHING) first appeared on Billboard Japan