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Rakim has been your favorite rapper’s favorite rapper since he and Eric B dropped Paid in Full in 1987. Credited with shifting the way rappers rap, he is often recognized as the inventor of “flow,” as those who came before him rapped with a more flat-footed rhyming cadence. Rakim attacked tracks like Usain Bolt, and his flow has been compared to the way Thelonious Monk played the piano or how John Coltrane manipulated the saxophone.

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However, not too many fans are aware that Rakim is also a producer. For G.O.D’s Network (REB7RTH), his first album since 2009’s The Seventh Seal, the God MC crafted every beat for every song. “This is the first time I’m really showcasing myself as a producer,” he says over the phone. “I always produced tracks. I did a lot of the Eric B & Rakim music, but never really let that be known.”

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Having grown up in a musical family (his aunt was legendary actress and singer Ruth Brown), Rakim always dug for samples — and most notably produced “Juice (Know the Ledge)” from the Juice soundtrack. That’s him playing the live drums on there, and it was him who looped the bassline from Nat Adderley’s “Rise, Sally Rise.”

His new seven-track album is packed with features from rappers new and old, alive and gone. There are verses from the late Nipsey Hussle and Fred the Godson. He has Chino XL and Canibus on the same song. Planet Asia and B.G. make appearances. East Coast underground mainstays Hus Kingpin and 38 Spesh contributed a few bars — as did Wu-Tang Killa Bees Masta Killa, Method Man and La the Darkman.  

Rakim talked with Billboard about how this all came together, why he wanted to feature his production skills, the current state of the rap game, and much more. Check out our interview below.

This is your first album since 2009. What inspired you to make this album? 

I think the time was just right. The stars finally aligned for me, and I took advantage. There were a couple of label situations that I was trying to get done. Just a deal that I felt was worth my worth. Sometimes things don’t happen the way they should, and I’m not the one to settle. I’ve been in the game for a long time, so my deal isn’t gonna be like an up-and-coming new artist’s deal would be. Artists that have been here for a while, we have to understand our worth, otherwise, everybody else’s goes down. Our art reflects who we are. I was actually working on a project before I started the one I’m putting out now. Me and Jazzy Jeff were doing an album, and I had a song on it called “Reborn.”

So, I feel like now it’s a little easier for artists such as yourself to do things independently because you have the legacy and the fanbase already. 

It’s a blessing. You don’t have to conform to what’s going on. If you’ve got a fanbase, do what you’re supposed to do, and they’ll support you.

Someone that was a big proponent of that and helped shift things into where we’re at now is Nipsey Hussle. I noticed that you got a verse from him. How did that come together? Is that a verse that the family let you use in the stash? Or was that something that you and him were working on before he passed? You got Fred the Godson on there, too. 

Fred, DMX. I’ve got a Prodigy on there as well. It was an honor to be able to salute those brothers and showcase their work again. My man, Matt Markoff (who served as A&R/executive producer) has so much passion for the project. He went around to the right people and let them put their ear to the project, and was able to get some verses from some of these heavyweight legends.

It’s funny, man — he was going out, making moves and would send me the track back with the verse on it and surprise me. The whole project put a lot of things in perspective for me. The love that I was gettin’ from the artists really let me know who I am. I’m a humble person.

Come on, man, come on. I get it, but it’s like, if Rakim wants a verse from you… I can’t imagine anybody giving you a hard time. 

[Laughs.] That’s that love, man, word. When they came back with the finished project, not only did they do their thing, but a lot of them saluted me in a verse — which was humblin’ again. I’m so glad that we did it and got it out, and it’s also a chance for me to showcase my production skills and my DJ skills. I’m kind of enjoying this from a different point of view by being able to produce and mold the project together.

I was gonna ask — I noticed on one of the tracks you say, “Hold up, let me see if I get the scratch right.” So, that’s you scratching on the record? 

Yeah, I did all the scratching on the whole project… I DJ’d when I started rhyming when I was young. I used to DJ too. I always loved that element as well. So, it was fun to showcase all of that on this project. 

Were those the Kid Wizard days? 

Yeah [Laughs.]

I know your thing with Dre didn’t really work out, but the song “Now Is the Time” has a West Coast sound to it. Did you pick up any production tips from working with him? 

There were so many lessons and different angles to the game that I learned from Dre. I had a front-row seat to watch the process of producing a track. His energy and passion is unmatched. It made me get back on my grind after seeing his process. I was like, ‘”eah, I’m not applying myself the way I should.” Big up to the Doc, though. Yeah, Dre, I ain’t say nothin’, man. Imma holla at you. I ain’t tell ’em about what we’re working on.

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With you and Eric changing everything with Paid in Full, how do you feel about the way rap has evolved? 

I remember when I told my mother that I’ve been going to the studio and that they asked me to sign out of school to go on tour — which was bizarre. I’m sitting there explaining this to my moms and she says, “So, you giving up football? How do you know if this rap thing is gonna last?” Football was my dream, but that stuck in my head.

Mom’s word is golden, but I had that passion. It was something that scared me, but it also kept me focused. I come from that era when not only my mom, but a lot of people didn’t think that hip-hop would last. So, to see it come from where it came from and to see where it’s at now is a blessing. Hip-hop is the biggest genre in music right now. Incredible.

People ask you how you came up with your style because you changed how people rap. You incorporated jazz elements into your rhyme pattern. How does Rakim feel listening to Future, listening to a Young Thug, listening to some of these cats where they talk street sh—t, but it’s not in the traditional 16 bars, they’re singing it, almost like using their voices as instruments? 

It’s more R&B/hip-hop, than what I’m used to hip-hop being. But we watched it go from being lyrical to it being what they call “a vibe.” As long as it’s a vibe, they rock to it. It’s a tough situation, when the powers that be morphed it into it being the way it is. There’s no reason Future shouldn’t be able to put out the music that he loves doing and there’s no reason underground artists that love making that grimy boom-bap shouldn’t be able to make what they love. We let the powers that be separate hip-hop and made us work against each other. 

We gotta break the limitations down. We have to stop letting them separate hip-hop, and we gotta govern ourselves and take control of our genre. We can’t be where we are now and have no kind of structure, or no kind of understanding about what this is — because it’ll fall to the bottom just as quick as it got to the top.

That’s why the Internet is important because all of this can co-exist now. The major label system isn’t as necessary as before. You can put this album on Bandcamp and there’s going to be a market for it.  

And that’s what’s beautiful. We can stick to our guns and make the music that we love making. If you have a fanbase, cater to your fanbase, otherwise, you gonna drift off and you won’t be looking for fans that aren’t gonna know who you are, what you are, or what you do because you changed up on them. It’s important that we take advantage of the platform now. There aren’t any parameters that we have to follow or no cookie cutter that we got to use to get radio play to be relevant.

Make what you love. That’ll help the scale — because right now, the majority rules, and the majority seems to be closer to the R&B/hip-hop side. We need more people to stick to their guns to even that scale out.

How closely have you paid attention to the Drake and Kendrick thing? Because Drake is one of those artists that gets a knock for being an R&B dude, even though he’s battle-tested. He represents the mainstream and Kendrick represents the genre in a more traditional sense to most rap fans. 

I think that it was important, because these brothers are at the top of the game, and revered hip-hop. You know, a lot of people in that position won’t accept no challenge, because they got too much to lose. So, it was dope that these brothers put the mainstream success down and said, “Yeah, let’s do it.”

The battle put a lot of things in perspective — because it showed the difference between real hip-hop and mainstream hip-hop. Younger artists now know that there’s a difference. A lot of them didn’t even understand that. They just listened to the majority, not knowing that a lot of people don’t categorize what they were hearing as real hip-hop. The battle was very needed for the genre. I tip my hat to them brothers. Let’s just hope that it stays to the music.

To the younger artists out there, do a little history, man, just like anything else. You want to learn about your family history, or your nationality’s history? Research it. Researching hip-hop is one of the illest things you can do. If you find out that your family came from great people and did great things, you’re gonna look at life a little differently. And when you look back at hip-hop and see where it came from and what this thing is about, it’ll give you a better understanding of what these brothers did. It’ll also make you feel a little better about what you represent.

A lot of hit rap records toe the line of pop and R&B these days, and fans are more forgiving about ghostwriters when it comes to some of those songs. I wanted to broach that subject with you because ghostwriting was considered a cardinal sin during your era.

It’s funny. Back early in the game around ’87-’88, people started asking me to write. The first person that asked me, I was so offended by that sh—t. That’s almost like being at practice and this kid is crossing you over like f–king crazy, man. You know what I mean? You’re not gonna go over there and be like, “My man, show me how to do that crossover.” I’m not giving him the golden pen. Like really, man? “Nah. I’m not writing this for you. You crazy?” Not the thought of having a ghostwriter but even me ghostwrite for someone else, you kiddin’?

So, to have a ghostwriter — from where I come from — that’s not acceptable. With singing it’s more complicated, it’s a little different. The singer still has to hit them notes and make it theirs, It’s much different for a singer because if you take a dope song from back in the day that was a hit and you give it to somebody else, it may not be a hit, because they can’t sing it right. 

But for MCs, we salute them because of what they say. So, if your words aren’t from you, then how am I supposed to know what you wrote and what you didn’t write? And now, am I still supposed to respect you as an emcee knowing that you didn’t write everything? That’s complicated.

But, if the younger generation accepts that, then, you know, that’s on them. Where I come from, we don’t really respect that. I don’t respect that. Everything I ever said that was a verse, I wrote. I might have let somebody write a hook, or somebody might have sent me a song with a hook on it, but I pride myself on what I do and how I did it. I can’t see somebody else writing my rhymes and feeling like I’m that dude. My man helped me be that dude. I can’t even do that; I wouldn’t even feel right. I can’t even say thank you if somebody came up and was like, “Yo, that last song you did? Bananas.” I’ll feel funny as hell standing there. I would have to say, “You know what, bruh? I didn’t write that.” I can’t front.

I peeped that you have Hus Kingpin and 38 Spesh on the album. How did that come about? Were you fans of theirs? I know Hus is from Long Island. I felt like that was ill because it’s like you’re bridging the gap. 

That’s what’s so dope about being able to do this project. We got MCs from every part of the United States. I always keep my ear to the street. From Smack URL to the underground scene, that’s what keeps hip-hop alive and well. I feel good when I see emcees spittin’ like that. I salute them young brothers that’s really wantin’ to be lyrical, pushin’ the envelope and refusing to say, ‘Aight, I’m just gonna make a quick radio song, so I can get out there.’ A lot of these brothers could’ve been tried to do that, but that ain’t where their heart is. They know real MCing and real hip-hop exists and anything outside the line is unacceptable.

Yeah, man, and it’s funny because this has kind of been the theme throughout this interview is just how everything has changed. Before, if you made this album, you would more than likely have had to chase radio play. You don’t have to chase the radio anymore. 

I think we made a statement with the project. Straight hip-hop orientated and wasn’t looking to make radio-friendly songs or follow any kind of mold. Everybody did what they love. From watching the underground scene to the URL circuit with cats like Charlie Clips, Goodz — we need to break the walls down and merge all this together. It can’t do nothing but make the genre better. It’s gonna make rappers get in they bag and take their craft seriously.

You gotta show them that underbelly. It’s like when you pick up a log in the woods, and there’s like a whole universe under there. 

We talkin’ on a hip-hop level. I won’t even say “street.” You gotta go to the trenches to really understand. I laugh when they try to discover things on Earth, there’s just a few places they don’t go. For one, they don’t go deep in the water and two, they don’t go to the swamps; it’s too dirty for them. It’s the same thing with the hood, they don’t wanna go to the hood; it’s too dirty for ’em. But you ain’t gonna know about too many things on the planet and how things work if you don’t go to the swamps, or you don’t go underwater. You’re on the surface thinking you know what’s going on. You go deep underwater, and you see something swim over and it turns into the thing it just landed on. It ain’t regular down there. There’s some different s—t going on down there.

You said that you’re humble, but you’re also aware that you’re on top of everybody’s “Best Rapper” list. What keeps you motivated to make music? 

I think that alone. The expectations that I not only give myself, but what the people give me. I use that as fuel. I would rather people expect me to succeed than to expect me to fail. I gotta keep doing it at a higher rate because that’s what they expect from me. I just try to use it to help me rather than stagnate me.

So, we can expect more from you. You’re going to do more self-produced stuff, I’m assuming. 

Yes, sir. I’m getting confident with my tracks. I gotta a lot of tracks over here. I just been storing the right time. I’m working on a solo Rakim joint and working on a couple other projects as well. So, I’m just looking forward to just staying in the studio. I took the year off from touring just so I could get studio work done. Hopefully, you hear a lot of new music from Rakim.