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Skillet’s John Cooper has a good sense of humor about some of the hard lessons he’s learned about the music business in nearly three decades as a musician. The outspoken, gregarious singer, fresh off the release of a new album (Revolution) and a European tour, laughs heartily when asked what lessons he wish he learned early his career.

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“I would go back to my younger self and say, ‘They call it the music business for a reason,” he tells Billboard’s Behind the Setlist podcast. “That part — ‘business’ — actually matters. Because when you first start — I mean, I don’t know if everybody’s like this, but I certainly was like, ‘No, no, it’s not a business, it’s art. It’s no business involved. It’s just what I want to sing about. It’s all about me and my feelings and my artwork, and I’m never gonna let anybody bastardize my art.’ And you just end up making a bunch of dumb decisions because you don’t realize that, yes, it is about art, but you still got to pay bills. And you’re in the van in the middle of the night — if anybody’s in a band out there, they’re going to know what I’m talking about — you’re driving the van, and all of a sudden you feel something. You look out the side as you’re driving and you see one of the wheels from the trailer going past you [and] it flies off in the middle of the night. And I’m sitting there going, ‘I don’t care. It’s all about my art.’ That’s not real! You’ve got to pay for that, man!”

It took Cooper a few years to realize he needed to be more hands-on and not expect others to handle his business the way he wants. “If you want it done right, you have to get involved,” he insists. “That’s not to say [my manager and business manager] didn’t do their job, but they’re never going to do it the way you want it done. And it’s easy to complain about it, but just get your hands dirty.”

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The need to be more involved in the business side of his career “really hit home” early in Cooper’s career when the person preparing his taxes asked to see his taxes for the band’s first four years. “And I said, ‘Well, we lost money for the first four years, so I didn’t turn them in,’” Cooper recalls. “He’s like, ‘Well, you’re gonna pay for that now. You’ve gotta pay a fee for not doing it right.’ And so I would go back and just say [to my younger self], ‘Hey, yes, it’s about the art, but you can’t be a moron. You’ve got to grow up.’”

Over time, Cooper has learned the business side of music from a variety of people, including a manager that arrived six years into his career and his business manager. He also took inspiration from Mötley Crüe bass player Nikki Sixx, who Cooper says “understood it’s about art, but you got to take care of your business. You want to be around for 30 years? You better get it in gear, son!”

The lessons Cooper learned will help now that Skillet is independent and self-releasing its music. After nearly two decades with Atlantic Records — 99% of which was positive, Cooper says — the band released Revolution on its own Hear It Loud imprint. While Atlantic Records helped Skillet find mainstream success (“Awake and Alive” reached No. 1 on the Billboard Active Rock chart in 2011) there was more bureaucracy than Cooper would have preferred. “A lot of red tape,” he says. “A lot of people having to approve the songs.” Now, Skillet now has greater creative control and can release music more frequently.

“We wrote 11 songs for this record, and I loved it,” he says. “I loved making the project. It was so much fun. We wrote, recorded and released this album in 13 months. And I’ll tell you what, it was so fun, and I love the music.”

Listen to the entire interview with Skillet’s John Cooper using the embedded Spotify player below, or go to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Amazon Music, Podbean or Everand.