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When rumors of a lingering rift between two of KATSEYE’s six members reached the girl group this summer, they quickly turned the chatter into a viral moment. “We’re literally fine lol,” read the caption on a photo of Lara and Manon holding hands and posing on a backdrop of dolphins and rainbows, playing into a then-current TikTok trend around Clean Bandit and Zara Larsson’s “Symphony.”
“One thing I love about this group is how Gen Z we are,” says Manon. “We saw all of that and were like, ‘Okay, funny. Let’s do this TikTok and put an end to this.’” The 11-second post has since compiled more than 5.4 million views.
The savvy social media approach is just one of the effective strategies that the rising group and their team at HxG (HYBE x Geffen Records, which represents a joint venture between the Korean-entertainment conglomerate and Universal Music Group) employ to hook new fans. Another, naturally, has been with the music: KATSEYE’s latest single, “Touch,” packs crisp drum-and-bass production, twinkling electro-pop flourishes and a swirl of pop-R&B harmonies into two minutes and ten seconds. Co-produced by Cashmere Cat (Ariana Grande, The Weeknd, Charli XCX), the hit has latched onto U.S. radio and helped to build the group’s following stateside.
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Sophia
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Megan
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KATSEYE was formed from HYBE and Geffen Records’ ambitious Dream Academy competition in 2023. The YouTube series sought to create a genuinely “global” girl group, and of a reported 120,000 applicants from around the world, 20 were selected to head to Los Angeles and prepare in the style of the infamously rigorous K-pop training methods before competing for a spot in the group. The multiweek contest concluded that November, with the six final members representing a culturally diverse lineup: Manon, 22 (from L.A.); Lara, 19 (Zurich); Daniela, 20 (Atlanta); Megan, 18 (Honolulu); Sophia, 21 (Manila, Philippines); and Yoonchae, 16 (Seoul, South Korea).
A subsequent Netflix series, Pop Star Academy: KATSEYE, documented the behind-the-scenes journey of whittling down the 20-person training camp into its final form — including all of its biggest trials and tribulations — and creating a natural curiosity for viewers to check out the group’s music. Wisely, in the days leading to the eight-episode competition series’ premiere on the streaming service in August, KATSEYE released its debut EP, SIS (Soft Is Strong). The five-track project has writing contributions from HYBE chairman Bang Si-Hyuk, Ryan Tedder and Justin Tranter (with the former two earning production credits as well), debuted at No. 6 on Billboard’s Top Album Sales chart, and appeared on the Billboard 200.
The group’s aptly titled first single “Debut” arrived in late June to kick-start the project’s rollout, but even then, the members were even more excited for their next release, the alt-pop smash “Touch.” “It was all of our favorite when we first heard it,” says Daniela. “We just had that gut feeling.” Adds Manon: “Our creative director Humberto [Leon] kept telling me, ‘‘Touch’ is the one, just wait and see.’”
From left: Sophia, Daniela, Manon, Megan, Lara and Yoonchae of KATSEYE photographed October 29, 2024 in Los Angeles.
Austin Hargrave
Manon
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The group made a strong push on social media for the song when it arrived on streaming services on July 26. In hopes of creating a viral dance trend, KATSEYE executive creator Son Sungdeuk crafted choreography designed to be both simple and memorable. Small, TikTok-friendly moves — like the chorus’ pinky-to-thumb touching gestures — were intentional hooks meant to attract fan engagement. “I feel like it’s not so hard for people to learn,” says Daniela, adding that the “little booty pop” — which Sophia interjects is “my favorite!” — was another move to draw in listeners. “I was like, ‘People are going to gag.’ It’s so cute.”
KATSEYE’s multi-pronged digital focus for the song included partnering with fan bases in the K-pop world, such as a TikTok post of Manon and Yoonchae dancing to “Touch” with Heeseung and Ni-ki of ENHYPEN (a boy band under HYBE sublabel Belift Lab). The video has 27 million views to date, while three other clips showcasing “Touch” on the group’s account have more than 15 million. Importantly, such success helped prove that KATSEYE was ready to thrive in more traditional stateside promotions.
“We had our eye on radio but knew we needed key levers to feel confident it was the right time to go,” says Mitra Darab, president of HxG at HYBE America. “We would see significant growth weekly not only at DSPs [digital service providers], but in TikTok and Reels creates and their social growth. We also knew we needed a big cultural moment to bring awareness to the group, which we achieved with the Netflix documentary. Once that was released, all our goals started to fall into place.”
Daniela
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From left: Lara, Daniela, Megan, Manon, Yoonchae and Sophia of KATSEYE photographed October 29, 2024 in Los Angeles.
Austin Hargrave
To gauge their appeal in the U.S., KATSEYE held a meet-and-greet and performance at Minneapolis’ Mall of America in October to connect with the growing fandom, collectively known as EYEKONS. Thousands of fans showed up. “Mall of America proved to us that this isn’t just about ‘Touch,’” says Darab.
“I think we built a fanbase that is just like us,” Lara adds. “EYEKONS are so funny; they have the same humor as all of us. I feel like they are the types of people that we would be friends with in real life.”
By October, “Touch” had appeared on several of Billboard’s international charts, including in the Philippines, Canada, Taiwan and Malaysia and cracked the upper half of the Billboard Global 200. It also reaches a new No. 32 high on the U.S.-based Pop Airplay chart dated Nov. 16, and the song has 229.9 million official on-demand global streams through Nov. 7, according to Luminate. “We couldn’t help but put so much heart into it,” says Sophia. “We really could feel that this was going to bleed through to the fans.”
Yoonchae
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Lara
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While planning is already in full swing for 2025, KATSEYE is now preparing for a performance, which will feature the Los Angeles Rams cheerleaders, at the 2024 MAMA Awards in Los Angeles on Nov. 21 — marking the first time the eminent K-pop awards show will take place in the U.S. — and slots on iHeartRadio’s Jingle Ball tour (visiting Dallas and Boston in December). “We don’t want to move on from ‘Touch’ just yet, but we’re never not working,” Manon says, true to her word as they talk to Billboard over a Zoom video call from their L.A. rehearsal studio. “A black box with a white light where we spend most of our days,” they crack, all in dance gear.
For KATSEYE, that drive is for a greater good. The young women see KATSEYE’s multicultural makeup as a starting point to shake up the sound of pop worldwide. “It’d be so nice to incorporate that within our music so it’s something different than we’ve been hearing before,” says Megan. “It’s such a superpower that we all come from different parts of the world.”
A version of this story appears in the Nov. 16, 2024, issue of Billboard.
By the time surging newcomer Zach Top released his debut country album, Cold Beer & Country Music, in April, the 27-year-old singer-songwriter was already seeing a groundswell of support from fans and his fellow artists. With his unabashed devotion to traditional country sounds on songs like “Bad Luck” and “There’s The Sun,” matched with his unmistakably country drawl, the singer-songwriter from Sunnyside, Wash., has drawn comparisons to such ’90s country luminaries as Alan Jackson, Doug Stone and one of his musical heroes, Keith Whitley.
Top, who is signed with label Leo33 and managed and published by Major Bob Music, has been on tour with reigning CMA entertainer of the year Lainey Wilson since May. He was a guest at Dierks Bentley’s early September headlining show at Nashville’s Bridgestone Arena and most recently teamed with bluegrass luminary Billy Strings to release a trio of collaborations for Apple Music.
As Top’s “Sounds Like the Radio” continues to grow on Billboard‘s Country Airplay chart, reaching a new No. 16 high on the Nov. 9-dated list, another track from Cold Beer & Country Music has also grown into a chart hit: “I Never Lie.” After the slow grooving, sarcastic song became his first entry on the Billboard Hot 100 in September (it has since reached a No. 68 high), his team pushed “I Never Lie” to country radio. It debuted on Country Airplay in late October, giving Top two songs simultaneously on the ranking — a feat more typically reserved for arena- and stadium-headlining stars in the genre.
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He’s up for new artist of the year at the CMA Awards later this month, and his rising career has led to additional dates to his 2025 Cold Beer & Country Music Tour, which launches Jan. 16 in Nebraska, with openers Jake Worthington and Cole Goodwin.
Billboard caught up with Top to discuss “I Never Lie” reaching new chart heights, as well as his thoughts on his upcoming CMA Award nomination for new artist of the year and who he thinks will take home the entertainer of the year honor.
“I Never Lie” was included on your debut studio album, Cold Beer & Country Music. How did the song come together?
I wrote it with Carson Chamberlain and Tim Nichols. I have one of my more clever rhymes on there, with the “Angel” and “April” rhyme in the first verse [“You still look like an angel/I heard you’re doin’ fine, got promoted back in April”]. We cut it pretty old-school with the band, and I sang and tracked the vocals as they were playing. They never hear the song until the day we record it. I’ll have an acoustic recording of it on my phone, and they hear it once or twice, and that’s it. It’s two or three takes and we play it like we feel it. We might overdub a thing or two or add some fills, but it’s all played live, nothing computerized about it. Carson produced it and [engineer] Matt [Rovey] mixed it up.
What has been your reaction to it connecting with fans on this level?
It may be the countriest song on the record. It sticks out and there’s nothing but steel guitar on there — you haven’t heard a song like that, sonically, in a long time. I think people have had an appetite for my kind of country for a little while, and we’re getting a dose of it. Songs like “Sounds Like the Radio” and “Cold Beer & Country Music,” you would expect those to be hits because they are up-tempo. This song goes in the face of what’s out there right now.
When did you first realize the song was a hit?
We had been playing it in live shows, so people already knew it. Around April 5, we had our album release show, and over the last four months, it has really taken off. Our fans know every word of every song on the album — they are not just waiting to hear one song. It gives me chills every night when we play that first riff [of “I Never Lie”]. They don’t need to hear no words, they know it from that first note.
“I Never Lie” debuted on Country Airplay in late October, giving you two current hits on the Billboard chart, including the top 20 hit “Sounds Like The Radio.” How does that feel?
I’m excited, because you don’t see that a lot with an artist as new as me. I’m proud to have the success so far and not be just a one-hit wonder.
You’ve also gained traction on TikTok with “I Never Lie.” What is your approach to social media?
I don’t get on social media much. There is a girl named Cheyenne in my band who has TikTok and she’ll tell me about videos that have “I Never Lie” or other songs in them. I was never very into social media — it was just a tool to get music out there. Early this year, I turned it all over [to my team]. I don’t have the apps on my phone, and I don’t think I have the logins. It can suck you in, scrolling through, and I think it’s probably healthy for me to stay off it.
You are nominated for new artist of the year at the CMA Awards on Nov. 20. What do you remember about finding out about your nomination?
It’s funny because I got a couple of texts that said, “Congratulations,” and I was like, “It’s not my birthday. What’s going on?” They sent me screenshots and filled me in. There are a bunch of big artists on that list, and I’m proud to be in this group.
Who do you think will win entertainer of the year at the CMA Awards?
I think Lainey [Wilson] would be a good pick. She puts on a hell of a show and is a great entertainer. And [Chris] Stapleton, I saw his show at [Nashville’s] Nissan Stadium, and I had not seen his show before and it’s pretty old-school with the band up there. He sings and captivates people with his voice and music, so he gets my vote, too.
A version of this story appears in the Oct. 26, 2024, issue of Billboard.
This has been a season of milestones at the colleges and universities preparing young people for careers in the music business.
At New York University (NYU), the Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music marked its 20th anniversary in April — on the very day one of its most successful alums, Maggie Rogers, announced her first arena tour.
Middle Tennessee State University’s Department of Recording Industry granted its first degree 50 years ago and has since graduated 7,500 “industry-ready alumni,” declares the school’s anniversary announcement. “MTSU is truly a unique place where students are nurtured, inspired and challenged,” says Beverly Keel, dean of the university’s College of Media and Entertainment.
Other schools are writing new chapters in the story of music business education, often with the support of industry benefactors.
Belmont University’s Mike Curb College of Entertainment and Music Business is planning a major expansion on Nashville’s Music Row with a significant donation from the Mike Curb Family Foundation. Occidental College has launched the John Branca Institute for Music with a gift from the renowned music attorney, who is an alum of the liberal arts college in Los Angeles’ Eagle Rock neighborhood. At Syracuse University in New York, the Bandier Program for Recording and Entertainment Industries — endowed by music publishing veteran Martin Bandier — is adding a master’s program.
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At a time when diversity, equity and inclusion efforts have come under attack, Howard University in Washington, D.C., has pushed back — with a program endowed by Warner Music Group and the Blavatnik Family Foundation Social Justice Fund. At one of the nation’s historically Black colleges and universities, Howard’s program offers students a unique certification: Social Justice in the Music Industry for Leaders.
Billboard chooses its top music business schools based on industry recommendations, alumni information provided by honorees from our multiple power lists, information requested from each school and nearly a decade of reporting on these programs. While online education programs have proliferated, our choices are campus-based and bestow bachelor’s or associate degrees.
The schools here are not ranked; they are listed alphabetically. “Rankings have created an unhealthy obsession with selectivity,” U.S. Secretary of Education Miguel Cardona said in a 2023 speech. He noted the U.S. Department of Education “hosts a free online tool called the College Scorecard to help students and families make more informed decisions. The scorecard provides data on college costs, graduation rates, employment, student debt and more.”
Recognizing the significant financial challenge of higher education, Billboard has prioritized the selection of more affordable public colleges and universities. And this list is geographically diverse. Beyond music industry capitals, tomorrow’s executives study at Auburn University in Alabama, Baldwin Wallace University outside Cleveland, Delta State University in Mississippi and the State University of New York in Oneonta, N.Y.
At the 20th-anniversary party for the program he endowed at NYU, Clive Davis, chief creative officer for Sony Music Entertainment, may well have been speaking for all who enroll in the schools profiled here when he said, “What is my fond hope for the future? I hope students continue to find success and really emerge as the leaders in the 21st-century music business.”
Abbey Road InstituteLondon
In the decade since it was established as a music production school by Abbey Road Studios and the studio’s owner, Universal Music Group, the institute has created affiliated programs across Europe and in the United States, Australia and South Africa. The institute’s specialist music production program provides hands-on practical training in all areas of music production, engineering and music-making. Its courses are designed in collaboration with the industry to offer a fast-paced and intensive education that reflects the realities of the business. Its alums have earned multiple Grammy and Latin Grammy Award nominations. According to the school, over 90% of the graduates of the program in London secure industry-related jobs within six months of graduation.
Event: Among the numerous engineers and producers who have been guest speakers at the institute is Phill Brown, a veteran of sessions with Led Zeppelin, David Bowie, Traffic, Cat Stevens and Bob Marley.
American University (Business & Entertainment Program)Washington, D.C.
Housed in American University’s Kogod School of Business, this business and entertainment program offers core classes in marketing, accounting and finance alongside specialized courses taught by entertainment industry veterans. Students of Linda Bloss-Baum, formerly of Warner Music Group and currently at SoundExchange, attend South by Southwest each March, and this year, they helped promote a National Independent Venue Association showcase. The program recently welcomed adjunct professor David Hughes, former chief technology officer at RIAA, and has now incorporated artificial intelligence into all of its classes. Beyond benefiting from the school’s location in the nation’s capital, students can join annual trips to Los Angeles, Nashville and New York, where stops have included CAA, Sony Music Entertainment, WME and UTA.
Courses: The business and entertainment program is launching two new classes: one that explores issues regarding name, image and likeness rights in the age of AI and Entertainment Accounting, which will be taught by industry veteran Steven Ambers, formerly vp of corporate development at SOCAN.
Auburn University (Music Studies Program)Auburn, Ala.
One of the state’s flagship public universities, Auburn is constructing a 4,000-square-foot, state-of-the-art recording studio situated within the music studies complex at Goodwin Hall on the campus. That building also houses two performing spaces. Auburn’s music department has become the second-fastest-growing department within its College of Liberal Arts. Following the introduction in recent years of majors in commercial music and composition and technology, the university last year created a new music business minor. Students in the program have interned at companies including Sony Music, Universal Music Group and CAA and worked backstage on tour with James Taylor. Sony Nashville CEO Randy Goodman was a recent speaker at the Music Business Association, a student organization.Alums Derek Crownover, a partner at Loeb & Loeb; Jennifer Bohler of Alliance Artist and Media Relations; and saxophonist Khari Allen Lee, who is a professor of practice at the university.
Sony Nashville CEO Randy Goodman with Oakley Holmes,
an Auburn University graduate and member of the school’s Auburn Music Industry Network who is now the label’s digital marketing and artist development coordinator.
Sony Nashville
Baldwin Wallace UniversityBerea, Ohio
Located 15 miles from downtown Cleveland, the city that proudly calls itself the birthplace of rock’n’roll, Baldwin Wallace has helped prepare students for successful careers in the business for more than three decades, offering a bachelor of arts in music industry. Named as an educational affiliate of the Grammy Museum in 2021, the school is the alma mater of Music Asset Management founder and CEO Mary Jo Mennella and Live Nation Midwest region vp of regional marketing Katie Rose and a frequent stop for industry executives including recent speaker Rick Fagan, tour manager for Disturbed. Students also benefit from a large roster of internship partners ranging from Blossom Music Center to Beachland Ballroom & Tavern to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.
Event: In spring 2024, students in the Music Industry II course traveled to New York to meet with industry professionals from BMI, The Bowery Presents, Madison Square Garden, Carnegie Hall and Carl Fischer Music.
Belmont University (Mike Curb College of Entertainment & Music Business)Nashville
In April, Belmont University received a $58 million gift from the foundation of music executive and philanthropist Mike Curb for the expansion of its program that bears his name. The largest gift in the school’s history will support the renovation of existing buildings and construction of a state-of-the-art facility on Nashville’s Music Row. Offering bachelor’s degrees in music business and business administration, Belmont provides students direct access to Nashville’s thriving music scene as well as “Belmont USA” semesters in Los Angeles, New York or Atlanta. Organizations like the Showcase Series let students work with vendors to produce six arena shows throughout the year. Notable classes include Intro to the Creator Economy — taught by Andrew Graham, CAA’s head of digital corporate advisory and partnerships, and CAA agent Chris Wittine — which melds social, video and monetization.
Event: In April, the inaugural Belmont at the Opry convened songwriters and performers including alums Trisha Yearwood, Brad Paisley, Ashley Gorley and Hillary Lindsey.
Berklee College of MusicBoston
Alongside its long-standing bachelor of music business program that focuses on management, marketing and entrepreneurship, Berklee now offers a bachelor of arts program in music industry leadership and innovation, designed for nonmusicians with an interest in music, business and technology. Both offer ample guest speakers, industry partnerships, on-campus events and networking opportunities. In partnership with SALXCO/XO Records, students in the Trends and Special Topics course prepare a customized branding and social media campaign for a recording artist. The Berklee Popular Music Institute’s flagship BPMI live program offers a yearlong experience in which students scout, develop and tour with emerging artists. The school’s music business summer program, open to students ages 15 to 19, is a five-day experience designed to teach aspiring artists, managers and entrepreneurs how to launch a successful career in the music industry.
Event: This year, the Music Business/Management department hosted its 30th annual James G. Zafris Distinguished Lecture Series, featuring TuneCore CEO Andreea Gleeson.
Berklee College of MusicValencia, Spain
Students who want a global view of the industry join with peers from more than 20 countries for Berklee’s one-year master of arts in global entertainment and music business program in Valencia. The program offers three concentrations — live entertainment, entrepreneurship and record industry — and students also work on real-life projects including the on-campus record label Disrupción Records, with the Rototom Music Festival or with companies including Chartmetric, Warner Music Group, Warm and Audiense. Courses include Emerging Technologies and New Creative Frontiers, which covers tech from AI to metaverse communities, and Music Publishing and Music Supervision. The Berklee Global Career Summit, held annually in January, is a four-day boot camp focused on professional development and career paths through keynotes, panels, workshops and mentoring sessions.
Alums: EMPIRE marketing director Alán Hensley, TikTok agency solutions lead Aman Wadhwa and Warner Chappell Music A&R manager Andres Arenas.
BIMM University (BIMM Music Institute)London
BIMM Music Institute is a division of BIMM University, a group of colleges given full university status by Britain’s Department for Education in 2022. The university offers courses in music, film, performing arts and gaming at the bachelor’s and master’s levels. It has a 40-year history of offering students a hands-on education in state-of-the-art facilities and a wide network of industry connections. BIMM Music Institute now operates in London, Brighton, Bristol, Manchester and Birmingham, England, as well as Dublin and Berlin. It offers bachelor’s degrees in the music business; music marketing, media and communications; and event management.
Events: Speakers have included Glastonbury Festival co-founder Michael Eavis, Chic’s Nile Rodgers, members of the band IDLES (who are also alums) and British rapper Stormzy.
The BRIT SchoolCroydon, England
Co-founded in 1991 by the British government and the British Record Industry Trust (the charitable division of U.K. labels trade group BPI, which presents the BRIT Awards), The BRIT School offers a tuition-free education for students ages 14 to 19 for careers in performance and creative arts and related industries. It has specialist teachers in live sound, production, recording, music technology and business. The school has two working venues on-site and also houses the Sir George Martin Recording Studio, plus audiovisual hubs with professional standard equipment and the YouTube Music Studio for live broadcast and radio. Speakers have included Sony Music Entertainment U.K. chairman Jason Iley and Billy Bragg, who came to celebrate 40 years since the release of his Life’s a Riot album and discuss his career with the students.
Alums: Adele, RAYE, Amy Winehouse and Loyle Carner.
California Institute of the Arts (The Herb Alpert School of Music)Santa Clarita, Calif.
Every student at CalArts’ Herb Alpert School of Music engages in some aspect of creating music, even those who intend to pursue nonperforming roles. The school, which is rooted in experimentation and diverse approaches to arts and culture, believes this depth of exploration equips students to be more informed about their work after graduation. On campus, students benefit from teachers and mentors with a breadth of knowledge and passions. Simon Reynolds, a faculty member in the Experimental Pop program and author of Rip It Up and Start Again: Postpunk 1978-1984, among other titles, teaches the new Writing About Music course that examines critical writing about popular music. Laurel Halo — a composer, producer, live musician and DJ — joined the faculty in fall 2022.
Course: AI Sonic Explorations features hands-on workshops exploring the critical, speculative and practical ways of applying AI to working with sound and musical composition.
California State University, NorthridgeLos Angeles
Cal State Northridge offers classes including copyright law, recording contract formation and negotiation, and marketing, as well as a two-semester course that covers copyright, publishing, licensing and music industry contracts. To ensure students have the skills they need for careers in the industry, the school also emphasizes experiential education, from its student-run record label to its robust internship requirement and deep connections with Los Angeles-based industry professionals, who often visit the campus for panel discussions, guest lectures and mentoring. A recent screening of the documentary Immediate Family, about the hit-making L.A. studio musicians Leland Sklar, Danny Kortchmar, Russ Kunkel and Waddy Wachtel, was followed by a Q&A with director Denny Tedesco, who also directed the documentary The Wrecking Crew.
Alums: Mike Elizondo, Grammy-winning songwriter, producer and instrumentalist; artist Andy Grammer; and Andy Summers, guitarist for The Police.
Delta State University (Delta Music Institute)Cleveland, Miss.
Graduates of Delta State’s Delta Music Institute who earn a bachelor of science degree in entertainment industry studies enter the music business with a range of skills in entrepreneurship and audio engineering technology. The program’s small size enables more personal instruction and one-to-one connections, and students benefit from the institute’s breadth of industry partnerships. It’s an education partner of the Grammy Museum Mississippi, an Avid Learning partner offering Pro Tools certification, a Dolby Institute academic partner and a Grammy U affiliate. It frequently hosts music industry experts, including recent guests Robert Ellis Orrall, founder of Infinity Cat Records; Charles Newman, co-founder of Mother West Records; and Matt-Ross Spang, recording engineer and studio owner.
Alums: Ike Illoegbu, owner of Brooklyn-based i2 Mastering Studios, and Zack Woodard, program coordinator at Grammy Museum Mississippi.
Drexel University (Westphal College of Media Arts and Design)Philadelphia
Program-specific classes begin freshman year at Drexel’s Westphal College, where students take on courses ranging from 50 Years of Hip Hop to Women in the Music Industry to classes focused on marketing and promotion, entrepreneurship, media promotion, live music and more. The quick immersion provides a foundation for the school’s co-op program, through which all students spend six months working in the field. The program also publishes a zine featuring student-conducted interviews with Drexel alums working in the music industry, sponsors a collegiate chapter of Women in Music and houses FLUX, a student-run organization that produces live-music events on campus.
Event: A group of Drexel students visited the Universal Music Group offices in New York and heard from executives including Jordan Moran, director of audience growth and marketing at Universal Music Enterprises, and Sarah Tully, manager of commercial strategy and partnerships at Island Records.
Full Sail UniversityWinter Park, Fla.
Artists including Elvis Costello and Aoife O’Donovan and executives such as Sony Music Latin vp of A&R Alejandro Jiménez and MOXIE Nashville founder Vannesia Darby have recently spoken at Full Sail, whose music business program hosts frequent full-day workshops on industry-related topics like branding, AI, social media, live events and career paths. Many times, these sessions also include guests representing a diverse range of industry disciplines. The recent Hip Hop Music Industry Panel brought Goodie Mob’s T-Mo, GYMINI and Vinny Idol to the school. Students gain hands-on experience through the program’s Artist Development initiative, where they assist working artists in areas including social media support, marketing content creation, music video development and promotion.
Course: In Music Supervision, students learn how to serve as a creative liaison between the music industry and the visual-media industries, including film, TV, gaming and advertising.
Hofstra UniversityHempstead, N.Y.
Enrollment in Hofstra’s music business program increased by more than 300% from 2017 to 2023, and its offerings have expanded accordingly. A new series of six-week courses — taught by executives including Atlantic Records senior vp of international marketing Danielle Geiger and Thirty Tigers vp of A&R Lee Dannay — focuses on four different topics per semester. Students in the Promotion in the Music Industry course create a marketing plan for an artist and present it to a jury of industry professionals. Students also participate in internships at Live Nation, ASCAP, SoundCloud and Wasserman, to name a few, and benefit from more than 50 speakers who visit campus annually, such as recent guest Rich Holtzman, AEG Presents senior vp of marketing and artist development.
Event: In March, Hofstra hosted a Mental Health in the Music Industry panel featuring Geiger, Sound Mind Live executive director Chris Bullard and Rock Star Advocate founder Suz Paulinski.
Howard University (Warner Music/Blavatnik Center for Music Business)Washington, D.C.
Unique in its curriculum designed to foster innovation, positive change and social justice, Howard’s music business program offers industry support, mentorship, career development opportunities and global reach. It was endowed in 2021 with a $4.9 million gift from Warner Music Group and the Blavatnik Family Foundation Social Justice Fund and provides students with wide access to industry professionals and resources. Students graduate with a Chartmetric Data Analytics certification and the first-ever Social Justice in the Music Industry for Leaders certification. The program has hosted over 55 executive and artist speakers this past year. Its reach extends to Ghana, where a partnership with the local government facilitates artist exchanges and industry mixers. Partners including CAA, Wasserman, RIAA and The Tom Joyner Foundation offer internships and job placement opportunities.
Event: The program’s director, Jasmine Young, received the 2024 Howard Forward Award and the Changemaker Award for cultivating positive and effective change schoolwide. She also spoke at the inaugural West Africa Music & Arts Festival in Accra, Ghana.
Jasmine Young is director of the Warner Music/Blavatnik Center for Music Business at Howard University.
Justin Knight
Kennesaw State University (Joel A. Katz Music and Entertainment Business Program)Kennesaw, Ga.
Endowed by — and taking its name from — leading entertainment lawyer Katz, the program at Kennesaw State offers a 24-credit certificate program and an 18-credit undergraduate minor for those seeking careers in the entertainment business. Experiential offerings abound. For more than a decade, Katz MEBUS students have worked with Sixthman to create marketing plans for the company’s music festivals and aid its work with Norwegian Cruises. A partnership with Dolby enables students to train in the latest technologies, and the program’s annual trip to London features meetings with executives at Sony Music Entertainment, Abbey Road Studios, Universal Music Group, Dolby, Royal Albert Hall and others. Each year, MEBUS students also develop digital marketing strategies inside the Sony Entertainment boardroom to help launch emerging artists.
Faculty: Bryan Calhoun — head of digital strategy for Blueprint Group/Maverick who has developed digital initiatives for Lil Wayne, Nicki Minaj, T.I. and The Roots — is serving as executive-in-residence at the program.
Liverpool Institute for the Performing ArtsLiverpool, England
Co-founded in 1996 by Paul McCartney and Mark Featherstone-Witty (who retired as principal/CEO in 2021 and was succeeded by Sean McNamara), LIPA’s student body comprises musicians, dancers, engineers, producers, technicians, designers and filmmakers, all honing their talents in world-class facilities. Those planning nonperforming careers can follow a music industry management track taught by faculty with experience in performing, producing, managing and record-label ownership. The curriculum begins in its first year by teaching essential management skills before students begin specializing. In their second year, they can work on a three-week, student-run music festival, 2ube Extra, staged in The Paul McCartney Auditorium. Their third year brings a three-month placement at leading companies including Warner Music and Live Nation, which often leads to full-time employment.
Event: In May, Björn Ulvaeus — composer, songwriter, musician, producer and founding member of ABBA — visited LIPA for a Q&A with students.
Long Island University (Roc Nation School of Music, Sports & Entertainment)Brooklyn
Launched in fall 2021, the Roc Nation School of Music, Sports & Entertainment at LIU will graduate its first full class in spring 2025. Students in each of its three music majors take foundational business courses, and the curriculum is available to those studying in the applied music or music, technology, entrepreneurship and production majors. It has already become a magnet for leading creatives, legal experts, A&R executives and digital and brand experts, and speakers at the school have included Megan Thee Stallion, Fat Joe, Rapsody, Sony Music Publishing CEO Jon Platt, Roc Nation vice chairman Jay Brown and Roc Nation CEO Desiree Perez. The school has also hosted the EmpowHERment Summit to amplify the role of women across the music industry and partnered with MetaMoon Festival to host an inaugural summit focused on Asian representation in live music and touring.
Course: The school partners with JPMorgan Chase on the Game-Changing Finance course that teaches aspiring executives how to understand contract terms, spend thoughtfully, save responsibly and borrow wisely to navigate their financial futures.
Jon Platt, chairman/CEO of Sony Music Publishing, is among the top executives who have met with students at the Roc Nation School of Music, Sports & Entertainment at Long Island University.
Nadav Kander
Los Angeles College of MusicPasadena, Calif.
Los Angeles College of Music launched a master’s program in March 2023, which augments its 12-quarter bachelor of music degree and six-quarter associate of arts degree. Committed to offering students hands-on experience and networking opportunities, the school hosts over 120 industry guests, panelists and master-class speakers each academic year. In addition, the LACM program hosts quarterly field trips to companies including Warner Chappell, Spotify and Disney, where students meet with industry executives and grow their networks, and the school partners with Grammy U, Ableton and audio company AIAIAI. Its student-run, faculty-advised 370 Music Group comprises 370 Artists, which provides artist marketing, development and distribution services in partnership with distributor Vydia, and 370 Songs, which curates original student material for synch and licensing opportunities.
Event: A partnership with DISCO — an industry resource for file storage, sharing and presentations — enables students to have their music heard by music supervisors, publishers and more.
Los Angeles Film School (The Los Angeles Recording School)Los Angeles
Students explore the entire record-making journey at The Los Angeles Recording School, a division of Los Angeles Film School, which is located in the heart of Hollywood and equipped with professional recording studios for a real-world work environment. The school offers an array of degrees, including an associate of science in audio production and music production and a bachelor of science in audio production, entertainment business, music production and media communications. It also hosts an active speaker roster: Universal Music Group vp of sound and picture Roey Hershkovitz spoke with students in June. All students receive a TechKit that includes a MacBook loaded with software including Avid Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Ableton Live, an Auralia/Musition bundle and a MIDI keyboard.
Alums: Hannah Lux Davis, an award-winning music video director known for her work with Ariana Grande, Halsey, Demi Lovato, Nicki Minaj and Kacey Musgraves.
Loyola University (College of Music and Media)New Orleans
The New Orleans music scene is the backdrop for Loyola’s industry studies program, housed in its College of Music and Media. In 2024, the university sponsored one of the largest stages at New Orleans’ French Quarter Festival, which hired students as interns at more than 25 stages during the four-day event. The program offers an extensive curriculum, including the Record Label Operations course, and ample opportunities for experiential learning across the country and abroad. Students travel to industry conferences such as NAMM, Americana Fest, South by Southwest and Music Biz. This past summer, a new two-week, three-credit course brought students to London for classroom instruction at Regents University and field trips to U.K. entertainment companies.
Course: Digital Strategies is a new course that delves into the use of predictive modeling through trending data in the industry and teaches students how to access the technological tools of tomorrow and use them to build creative careers.
Middle Tennessee State University (College of Media and Entertainment)Murfreesboro, Tenn.
Last year marked the 50th anniversary of MTSU’s Department of Recording Industry, which, as part of the school’s College of Media and Entertainment, operates alongside complementary disciplines including film, animation, TV, live-event broadcast, photography and digital media. The department offers undergraduate degrees focused on music business, audio production and commercial songwriting, two graduate degrees and an interdisciplinary degree. The school’s proximity to the Bonnaroo Music and Arts Festival enables students to produce over 30 hours of concert livestreams from the fest on Hulu. Last year, students worked at the Grammy Awards, the Country Music Association Awards and South by Southwest, among other events, and provided live sound, video and lighting for Khalid’s on-campus performance. Experiences in audio production, music business and commercial songwriting are part of a robust internship program.
Event: Kerry Gordy, the son of Motown Records founder Berry Gordy, visited the campus to speak about Motown’s impact, working in fields including copyright recapture and finding a distinct career path.
Monmouth UniversityWest Long Branch, N.J.
The home of the Bruce Springsteen Archives and Center for American Music, Monmouth’s industry program combines coursework from the university’s business school with its music and music business curriculum in an interdisciplinary model that prepares students for a range of opportunities. Students work curating exhibits, in merchandising and in behind-the-scenes roles at the Archives, while the campus record label, Blue Hawk Records, enables them to take on roles as A&R representatives, managers, producers and artists. One of four collegiate chapter affiliates of Women in Music, the program also partners with major music organizations, tech companies, agencies and a state-of-the-art recording complex in nearby Asbury Park, N.J.
Event: In April, Jackson Browne, John Mellencamp, Mavis Staples and Dion DiMucci were honored at the second American Music Honors Awards, produced at Monmouth by the Bruce Springsteen Archives and Center for American Music. All honorees were present, as were Springsteen and Darlene Love. A film of the event will be shown on campus Nov. 1.
From left: Bruce Springsteen, Mavis Staples, Darlene Love, Dion, John Mellencamp and Jackson Browne onstage at the Bruce Springsteen Archives and Center for American Music Honors in April at the Pollack Theatre at Monmouth University in West Long Branch, N.J.
Danny Clinch
New York University (Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and Human Development)New York
Led by Larry Miller, who was honored as the music business educator of the year by the Music Business Association, the music business curriculum at NYU Steinhardt offers undergraduate and graduate degrees that are integrated with the university’s Stern School of Business. Courses are taught by faculty and leading industry practitioners including RIAA CEO Mitch Glazier and National Music Publishers’ Association CEO David Israelite, and recent guest speakers include songwriter-producer Benny Blanco and Shira Perlmutter, director of the U.S. Copyright Office. Students take classes on the business of recorded music, music publishing, live performance, management, publicity and fan engagement at the main campus in New York and satellite sites in Nashville, Los Angeles, Paris, Prague and Shanghai. Starting in 2025, NYU will offer a bachelor of science degree in music business, with the first year of study being held in London. Artist and producer Joe Henry is this year’s NYU-Americana Music Foundation artist-in-residence Nov. 11 to 13. Latin Grammy winner Ella Bric will visit in the spring.
Course: Howie Singer and Bill Rosenblatt, co-authors of the book Key Changes: The Ten Times Technology Transformed the Music Industry, teach Data Analysis in the Music Industry.
From left, Larry Miller, clinical professor and director of the music business program at NYU Steinhardt, with RIAA chairman/CEO Mitch Glazier; Judy Tint, music attorney and clinical associate professor at the school; and NMPA president/CEO David Israelite. Glazier and Israelite also teach in the Steinhardt program.
Courtesy of NYU Steinhardt
New York University (Tisch School of the Arts, Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music)New York
The Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music at NYU’s Tisch School of the Arts marked its 20th anniversary this year educating students pursuing music business careers alongside musical creatives. Seeking to prepare students to lead across a range of industry fields, the institute recently added marketing and management executive Naima Cochrane — who has worked for Bad Boy, Arista Records, Columbia and Epic Records — to its faculty. Pure Tone Records founder Pete Ganbarg and Big Beat Records GM Gina Tucci were among executives who met with students at the school’s Atlantic Records Songwriting Camp and Warner Chappell Music songwriting rooms in Warner Music Group’s New York headquarters. The weeklong camp featured collaborative writing sessions by CDI alums and students and daily guest lectures, discussions and Q&As with WMG executives.
Alum: Maggie Rogers, a Grammy-nominated artist and founder of Debay Sounds, graduated with degrees in music production and English.
Northeastern University (College of Arts, Media and Design)Boston
In recent months, Drew Simmons, Noah Kahan’s manager and Northeastern alum; Andrea Espinoza, assistant tour manager for Olivia Rodrigo; and Sam Alpert, senior vp of marketing at Wasserman Music, all came to campus to talk with students on track to receive their bachelor of science in music with concentration in music industry. The program is designed for those interested in every facet of the industry, with a focus on entrepreneurial thought leadership and ethical change. On campus, the school offers a breadth of classes ranging from Actionable Analytics in the Music Industry to Copyright in the Creative Industries to Making a Festival. Off campus, it provides students with a host of experiential learning opportunities.
Event: The university’s cooperative education program offers the opportunity to make valuable industry connections, broaden perspectives and acquire skills and knowledge outside the comfort zone of the classroom.
Occidental College (The John Branca Institute for Music)Los Angeles
At Occidental, the John Branca Institute for Music launched in July — endowed with a $5 million gift from the alum and leading music attorney whose clients have included the estate of Michael Jackson and some 30 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductees. The Mike Curb Foundation has gifted another $500,000 to the institute. Devoted to the study of the industry and popular music, the institute features formal cooperation with other educational entities including Los Angeles City College and Harvard University and music companies such as Warner Music Group (whose former CEO, Stephen Cooper, is an alum). The college also has recruited a tenure-track assistant professor of Popular Music and Music Production: musician, multimedia artist and scholar Ramona Gonzalez. Occidental’s music program will remain anchored in the school’s liberal arts focus, ensuring students develop critical thinking skills.
Course: A class titled Copyright, Originality, and Theft in American Popular Music examines how ideas about musical copyright, originality, authenticity and appropriation have evolved over the history of the American popular music industry.
Music attorney John Branca has endowed the newly launched John Branca Institute for Music at Occidental College in Los Angeles.
John Lamparski/Getty Images
Oklahoma State University (The Michael and Anne Greenwood School of Music)Stillwater, Okla.
Hit songwriter, producer and former Arista Records Nashville president Tim Dubois is an OSU graduate (and this year was inducted into the Oklahoma Hall of Fame). The school’s bachelor of science in music industry program was established in 2017, and in 2021, the Greenwood School of Music opened facilities adjacent to the McKnight Center for the Performing Arts, which provides learning and cultural experiences for music majors. A $50 million programming endowment has enabled a New York Philharmonic residency to take place in Stillwater. Students have access to four studios, including the multimillion-dollar Dick & Malinda Berry Fischer Recording Studio, as well as the student-run music company Poke U. They can also start an MBA program their senior year in conjunction with the Spears School of Business and earn their master’s degree with only one additional postgrad year.
Faculty: Music engineer-producer Luke Tallon (Killers of the Flower Moon) recently joined the faculty.
Rhodes College (Mike Curb Institute for Music)Memphis
Endowed by the Mike Curb Family Foundation in 2006, the Mike Curb Institute for Music at Rhodes College offers a music- and entertainment-based education that enables graduates to learn not only how to work in the industry, but how to think broadly about the world. Rhodes offers two certificates in music industry studies — one in content production and one in arts entrepreneurship. Classes are continually evolving, like the new course Songwriting in Memphis, in which students examine songwriting from multiple perspectives. The program is also home to student-produced zine Dredge and student-produced podcast Beyond Beale. The Curb Community Fellows Program provides funding for students to work directly with local professionals and organizations such as Goner Records, Royal Studios and the Stax Museum of American Soul Music.
Event: In partnership with the college’s endowed Springfield Music Lecture Series, the Curb Institute hosted Grammy-winning songwriter Jason Isbell for a conversation in February.
Rowan University (College of Performing Arts)Glassboro, N.J.
Rowan University’s music industry program, housed in its College of Performing Arts, offers a dynamic curriculum and a flexible bachelor of science degree with concentrations in technology (production/recording studio) and business (marketing/management) so students can tailor their studies to their specific interests. Each concentration includes credits from the College of Business. In addition to its annual career fair, which attracts top industry employers such as Live Nation, Rowan maintains strong partnerships with area community colleges, ensuring transfer students find an accessible pathway to their careers. Among its alums: SiriusXM host Erin Constantine, Sony Music Entertainment senior label analyst Ricardo Oropeza and Universal Music Group assistant manager of e-commerce Gabriella Bruckner.
Faculty: Michael McArthur, the program’s professor of practice, is vp of A&R at 300 Entertainment/Warner Music Group and was named to Billboard’s 2023 R&B/Hip-Hop Power Players list.
State University of New York, OneontaOneonta, N.Y.
All music industry majors at SUNY Oneonta complete a curriculum that features five core courses, including a seminar that explores contemporary issues in the music industry; a career preparation class focused on music, media and entertainment opportunities; and a course that examines legal issues in music, media and entertainment, with focuses on intellectual property law, contract law and ethics. Students also participate in activities, including The Music Industry Club — which produces concerts, seminars and presentations and runs record label Red Dragon Records — and campus radio station WONY (90.9) Oneonta. The school offers a regular series of alumni presentations, and a Backpacks to Briefcases series of networking field trips to New York to meet with alums working at music, media and entertainment firms.
Event: Last year, alum Jenn Federici, a leader in tour management, marketing and live events logistics and compliance who has held positions at Goldstar Management, Momentum Worldwide and Interscope Records, returned to campus to speak to the music industry concert production class.
Syracuse University (Bandier Program for Recording and Entertainment Industries)Syracuse, N.Y.
Enrollment in the Bandier undergraduate program is capped at 30 students annually, ensuring individualized attention to those developing the professional and human skills required to succeed in the music business. The curriculum enables students to study for a semester in Los Angeles or New York, as well as one semester abroad; the program also takes an annual trip to emerging music industry markets. Previous trips have included visits to Beijing, Singapore and Seoul. The program — endowed by music publishing executive Martin Bandier — is launching a graduate program, which will begin accepting students in summer 2025. It’s also creating an advisory board of industry experts — all Bandier or Syracuse graduates.
Course: Students in the Business of Live Music & Experiential Brand Activations course work with local promoter Eric Binion of After Dark Presents to present a show, from booking talent and branding to social media and promotion to sales and settlement.
Laufey and Bill Werde, director of the Bandier Program for Recording and Entertainment Industries at Syracuse University, at the launch of the school’s new music business master’s program. A Bandier alum, Laufey has endowed a $100,000 scholarship for the program.
Arnold Turner
Temple University (Klein College of Media and Communication)Philadelphia
Temple University’s Klein College of Media and Communication offers an interdisciplinary bachelor of arts in audio and live entertainment. The program combines courses in the communication, music, business and event management schools. Class topics range from artist management and event operations to publishing, hip-hop media and culture, and more. At the university’s campus in the heart of Philadelphia, groundbreaking is planned for a new Klein College building that will house a reconstruction of the iconic Sigma Sound Studio 1, where Philly soul acts like The O’Jays once cut hits. The student-run label Bell Tower Music works with student radio, TV and other ventures, and the school’s deep industry relationships have fostered internships and jobs at Interscope Records, Kobalt, Primary Wave, Red Light Management, SoundExchange, Warner Music and more.
Event: Grammy- and Academy Award-nominated songwriter Stephan Moccio, who has collaborated with The Weeknd, Miley Cyrus and Céline Dion, recently came to campus to talk with students.
Tennessee State University (Commercial Music Program)Nashville
TSU is both a public university and one of the nation’s historically Black colleges and universities; for those seeking music business careers, it distinguishes itself with its location in the heart of Nashville. It also boasts faculty who come from and remain active in the industry. TSU’s program is up to speed on current industry trends and best practices. Its small faculty-to-student ratio also enhances the learning experience, as do frequent site visits, guest speakers — Sweetwater senior director of recruitment Jordan Applegate recently visited campus — industry-related events and internships. Sydney Verge, operations coordinator at the Recording Academy, is an alum.
Course: Students enrolled in Music Business and Law study intellectual property, contracts and various sources of revenue flow including publishing, touring, performing rights organizations and merchandising.
University of California Los Angeles (Herb Alpert School of Music)Los Angeles
The new music industry bachelor of arts program builds on the success of the Herb Alpert School of Music’s popular undergraduate minor. According to statistics compiled by the university, more than one-quarter of the nation’s music industry job postings are in California, making UCLA ideally located for those pursuing a music business career. The music industry major is also designed to attract and support incoming transfer students from California community colleges, which creates affordability and access. Students benefit from the program’s immersion in the L.A. music industry and from a continually expanding roster of guest speakers — including Nabil Ayers, president of Beggars Group and host of the Identified podcast, and Tiffany Red, Grammy-winning songwriter and founder of The 100 Percenters — and adjunct professors.
Faculty: Kathryn Frazier, founder of public relations firm Biz 3, whose clients include The Weeknd, J. Cole, Lil Baby and Lauryn Hill, recently joined the faculty and teaches the course Finding Your Voice.
From left: CAA’s Rob Light, Black Music Action Coalition co-founder Willie “Prophet” Stiggers, Biz 3’s Kathryn Frazier and Aqil Davidson attend BMAC’s pre-gala dinner in Los Angeles. Frazier teaches at UCLA’s Herb Alpert School of Music.
Johnny Nunez/WireImage
University of Colorado Denver (College of Arts & Media)Denver
CU Denver, as the public university is known, prepares students for success in the music business and to move the industry forward, both locally and globally. Students in the Music Cities class last year engaged online with industry leaders in international markets including Australia, Canada, Japan and the United Kingdom, as well as with leading professionals in U.S. markets including Nashville, Los Angeles, Austin and Seattle. Many of the business faculty have substantial industry experience and use their relationships to open opportunities for jobs and internships. The College of Arts & Media is the home of one of the first student chapters of Nashville Songwriters Association International, further strengthening opportunities for networking.
Course: Music Business in the Digital Age studies current trends, practices and business models, with an eye on their implications for the future, covering topics including AI, data analysis, privacy and technology surrounding live-music ticketing.
University of Miami (Frost School of Music)Miami
With a wide range of courses and proximity to the Latin offices of many major music companies, University of Miami’s Frost School offers a bachelor of arts in music industry for nonmusicians and a bachelor of music in music industry for performers. Its faculty are highly experienced industry professionals who are active in the field, and courses — including Music Publishing, where students learn about the A&R process and how publishing agreements are structured — continually evolve to keep pace with the industry. The program also offers a variety of student-run enterprises including ’Cane Records, Cat 5 Music and Frost Sounds, as well as a campus radio station, concert production organization, numerous Frost concert halls, the student Music Industry Association and an active Grammy U community.
Faculty: Olga Cardona, a 16-year veteran of Universal Music Publishing Group, brings with her three decades of experience in the Latin music business, with expertise in performing rights and publishing.
University of North Texas (College of Music)Denton, Texas
UNT’s College of Music, located on the northern edge of the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex, boasts the country’s largest public university music program. It offers degrees from the bachelor to doctoral levels and is home to the world’s first jazz studies degree program, now in its 77th year. The school continually adds faculty and courses to the curriculum, offered fully online or in a hybrid format, with options ranging from music leadership to performing arts management to touring. The school’s MBA in music business, launched just three years ago, supports student goals within music technology and entrepreneurship. In 2021, the Yamaha Institution of Excellence program included the UNT College of Music in its inaugural list of 10 distinguished colleges and universities recognizing extraordinary commitment to innovation in the study of music.
Event: Julian Peterson, associate director at Gearbox Software and a composer, audio programmer, sound designer and researcher, recently stopped by to talk with students.
University of Rochester (Eastman School of Music)Rochester, N.Y.
Students at University of Rochester’s Eastman School of Music benefit from the ability to combine a master of arts in music leadership with other disciplines including an MBA from the university’s Simon Business School. The curriculum emphasizes developing arts administration and leadership skills and requires real-world experiences through a capstone project. Eastman also offers commercial industry experience through the Beal Institute for Film Music and Contemporary Media — founded by alum and five-time Emmy-winning composer Jeff Beal — where students compose and produce music, perform and conduct in studio orchestras and can collaborate on cross-disciplinary projects in tandem with the Rochester Institute of Technology’s film, animation and video game-developing schools. Those interested in electronic/dance music currents can practice their craft in the school’s Electroacoustic Music Studios.
Event: Former Boston Symphony Orchestra CEO Mark Volpe offered workshops, presentations and individual advising with students last spring and was the 2023 commencement speaker.
University of Southern California (Thornton School of Music)Los Angeles
For nonperformers who want to understand the complexities of the music business, USC Thornton offers an expansive curriculum, well-respected faculty — including new adjunct professors Jane Davidson, an entertainment law and litigation attorney, and Joe Poindexter, chief communications officer/executive vp of digital at Pulse Music Group — and close ties with the L.A. music community. Students can earn either a bachelor of science or master of science degree in music industry, and they benefit from an abundance of networking, internship and job opportunities, leveraging their relationships with fellow students, faculty and guest speakers. Among recent guests on campus: Nederlander senior vp of marketing Jamie Loeb; Marty Hom, a tour director/manager who has worked with Beyoncé and Olivia Rodrigo; and Virgin Music Group president Jacqueline Saturn.
Alum: Justin Lubliner developed a marketing and PR company while at USC Thornton that evolved into his artist development company, The Darkroom. His second signing was Billie Eilish.
William Paterson UniversityWayne, N.J.
Internships are the backbone of the music and entertainment industries major and minor programs at William Paterson University. The school bolsters its forward-looking curriculum with workshops on topics including résumé-building and creating LinkedIn profiles, as well as professionalism seminars — all geared toward success in the real world. William Paterson’s alumni include Joelle Filippi, senior label analyst at Columbia Records; Shannon D’Amore, manager of booking at Prudential Center and White Eagle Hall; and Stephanie Grimes, senior manager of copyright at Downtown Music Publishing and, previously, at Songtrust. The program also hosts numerous industry insiders each year, including Symphonic Distribution chief creative officer Randall Foster, who recently stopped by to share wisdom.
Course: Students in the Entrepreneurship in the Music & Entertainment Industry class envision a new company — and then create a business plan for it.
This story appears in the Oct. 26, 2024, issue of Billboard.
As the pandemic was waning, John Summit, an emerging Chicago DJ whose music had blown up online during lockdown, had a plan to translate that internet presence to real life. “Our strategy was to be everywhere,” says Summit’s manager, Holt Harmon. “Like, omnipresent.”
In 2021 and early 2022, Summit and his team canvassed North American nightclubs as they reopened, showing promoters (and themselves) that Summit’s online hype could turn into in-person fun. In May 2021, he sold out a 500-capacity venue in Tempe, Ariz., in just 12 seconds.
The team then transitioned from clubs to 2,000-capacity rooms, investing profits into production for stage rigs. “We were smart with how we were living at the time,” Harmon says. “I did everything from a kitchen table with my business partner, and John was working from his parents’ house.”
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Since then, Summit has sold out headlining sets at Los Angeles’ BMO Stadium and Madison Square Garden in New York, with a three-night stint at L.A.’s Kia Forum set for mid-November. The large-venue bookings function as part of a three-pronged touring plan for Summit, which also includes his intimate Experts Only shows at clubs and festival sets as Everything Always, Summit’s duo project alongside Australian producer Dom Dolla.
The hybrid approach allows for different creative opportunities: Experts Only parties, for instance, offer no-frills production and let Summit stay close to his audience and test new music. They’re also easy to take on the road, often in destination venues like The Caverns in Pelham, Tenn. (“My goal is Experts Only Alps,” says Summit, who named the party, and his label, after his love of skiing. “That would be f–king sick.”)
Arena and stadium sets, meanwhile, satisfy massive audiences, including fans who might just be getting into electronic music through Summit’s accessible style of progressive house. And Everything Always lets two artists unite to play “bigger, more impactful things than if it was [them] separately,” Harmon says, such as the duo’s Coachella performance in April. “People ask how we keep cycling through markets year after year,” says Harmon, who is also co-founder and CEO of management firm Metatone. “It’s that we can come through as three different forms.”
The plan is to do it again internationally. With 50% of Summit’s 2025 touring happening overseas, Harmon says “the future of John Summit is a global business.” Now, Summit’s biggest sets require a crew of 180 and cost approximately $1.5 million to produce. But despite the growth, the essential goal remains the same as it was in the early days. “I’m still working from the kitchen table,” Summit says, “but it’s my own kitchen table now.”
This story appears in the Oct. 26, 2024, issue of Billboard.
With Billboard Hot 100 hits like “Hungry Like the Wolf,” “Union of the Snake,” “New Moon on Monday” and “A View to a Kill,” Duran Duran’s catalog is frighteningly fitting for spooky season. So in 2022, when the English quartet found itself playing a Halloween-night gig in Las Vegas ahead of its induction into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, the band decided to don costumes, sprinkle in seasonally appropriate covers and embrace the darkness.
The show was successful enough to inspire the band’s 2023 album, Danse Macabre, a top 10 hit on the Top Album Sales chart. With an expanded version of the album out now, the veterans — who have grossed $118.6 million and sold 1.8 million tickets since 1987, according to Billboard Boxscore — are set to play a show at New York’s Madison Square Garden on Oct. 31 that keyboardist Nick Rhodes promises “will be entirely different than any other Duran Duran show you will ever see.”
Is Halloween as big in the United Kingdom?
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We don’t celebrate it in such grand style as you do in America. I remember the first time I came to America was over the Halloween period. I literally thought, “Wow, they’re so far ahead of us. Why don’t we have these giant blow-up things outside our houses? Why can’t bats be 20 feet wide?” I love the sense of fun, the absurdity and that everybody gets to be a villain for a day.
The deluxe Danse Macabre has “New Moon (Dark Phase),” a moodier take on one of your classics; a cover of ELO’s “Evil Woman”; and “Masque of the Pink Death,” which I’m guessing is inspired by Edgar Allan Poe.
I’ve always been a great admirer [of Poe]. We grew up in England in the ’70s, where Hammer horror movies on [TV on] a Friday night, whether it was a Dracula or a mummy movie, were the thing you looked forward to all week. Plus, [I love] Tim Burton’s great contribution to everyone who loves goth. Those things shape the way you feel about life and the possibilities creatively. That’s what makes artists unique — their influences and the different areas they take from, even if it’s subliminal.
The Madison Square Garden show will be your second Halloween-themed concert. Do you see this becoming a tradition?
I don’t know. It’s a lot of work for one show. But Madison Square Garden just happened to be available, and New York is such a good place to be for Halloween. It was irresistible. We are going to make it something unusual and special. It won’t be like a regular show at all. The fans in Europe have been writing in already saying, “When are you going to do one in Europe? This is the second one in America; that’s not fair.” I sympathize with that. We always like to try to balance things, so maybe [we’ll do] one in Europe next year.
You have several other U.S. shows this fall beyond MSG. Will Halloween elements work their way into those?
I suspect some of them will feature a few bits that we’re preparing for Halloween. We didn’t think we’d be back in America this year, but when we decided to do the Halloween one, we slotted some more in. I rather like that way of working. For many years, we haven’t been a band that announces big world tours and ends up on the road for 18 months. But we do seem to play a lot of shows. We just add them when we want to, and somehow the chaos is working.
This story appears in the Oct. 26, 2024, issue of Billboard.
Pianos anchor both Abigail Barlow’s and Emily Bear’s Los Angeles apartments. Self-described “Barbie girl” Barlow, 25, has a shiny magenta lacquered Yamaha U1, as brightly hued as her hair and her bedazzled Stanley mug. The “old-ass” Steinway upright — a refurbished turn-of-the-century specimen purchased from “a random warehouse downtown” — belongs to 23-year-old Bear.
It would be tempting to assume that the two musicians are polar opposites, based on their instruments as well as their backstories. Barlow is a pop singer-songwriter who first dreamed of becoming “a musical theater actrice”; Bear was a wunderkind classical and jazz pianist, a Quincy Jones protegée who played for Beyoncé on the Renaissance tour and was intent on writing film/TV scores. And while both entered the industry in their teens, it wasn’t until a mutual friend introduced them in 2019 that they started writing songs together. Their creative partnership (and friendship) has been, as Barlow says, “just like alchemy,” ever since.
Amid the coronavirus pandemic, Barlow & Bear co-wrote The Unofficial Bridgerton Musical Album, inspired by the book series and hit Netflix drama, which became a viral sensation, racking up 60.3 million on-demand U.S. streams, according to Luminate, and winning the duo the best musical theater album Grammy Award in 2022. (Netflix sued the pair that July for copyright infringement when it put on a live, for-profit performance of the album at the Kennedy Center; the suit was reportedly settled out of court a few months later.) But now, their collaboration is about to hit the mainstream. Barlow & Bear’s music for Moana 2, in theaters Nov. 27, will make them the youngest (and only all-women) songwriting duo to create a full soundtrack for a Disney animated film. Two of their songs — “Beyond,” a soaring showcase for star Auli’i Cravalho (Moana), and “Can I Get a Chee Hoo?” for Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson (Maui) — will, Disney reveals, be submitted for Academy Award consideration.
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Like much of the musical theater-loving world, Walt Disney Music president Tom MacDougall first became aware of Barlow & Bear as a team through Bridgerton. (For Bear, it was also a full-circle moment: As an 8-year-old pianist, she had met MacDougall, who gifted her a Tangled score signed by storied composer Alan Menken that still hangs on her wall.) About three years ago, he met them for lunch to “sort of put it on our radar that he might have a project for us,” Barlow recalls. She and Bear didn’t expect much to come of it — but MacDougall was impressed by the storytelling in their Bridgerton music. “That spirit of deciding to musicalize this thing that wasn’t a musical gave me the confidence they could pull [a Disney film] off,” he says. “If they could conjure up the spirit to create songs where they didn’t exist, I had a good feeling that if we gave them moments to build songs around, they’d be able to deliver.”
Abigail Barlow (left) and Emily Bear
Maggie Shannon
A year later, in 2022, Barlow & Bear met with the creative team for Moana 2 — a sequel to the 2016 animated film about the titular young girl who sets out to save her Polynesian island — which was then planned as a Disney+ streaming series. “Both of us, weirdly, were going through similar struggles to what Moana faces in this new journey,” Bear explains. “It was easy to put ourselves in her shoes and understand that she’s just a young woman trying to find her place in the world, as are we.”
Around the middle of last year, Disney reenvisioned Moana 2 as a feature film — by which point Barlow & Bear were immersed in learning the ropes of composing for Disney, absorbing some imparted wisdom of their Moana composing predecessor, Lin-Manuel Miranda. “He gave me a stack of books about how to structurally craft a lyric not only to be storytelling-accurate, but to roll off the tongue, to fly off the page and into people’s minds and hearts,” Barlow says.
For her part, Bear dove into the treasure trove of foundational material from Moana by their soundtrack teammates, composers Opetaia Foa’i (a Samoan-born singer whose Polynesian music group, Te Vaka, performs on both Moana soundtracks) and Mark Mancina. “They recorded a huge library of logs and skins and vocal samples, so there were grooves that inspired entire songs,” Bear says. “Even if we started or wrote a song on our own, the root of it was still Opie.”
Though Barlow and Bear both admit that working on Moana 2 still feels surreal, they don’t have much time to soak it in: They’re booked and busy, in part because of that Grammy win. But both say the award’s significance to them was more symbolic. “We grew a lot as human beings through the whole [Bridgerton] process, and becoming like, ‘mature, professional girlie’ was something my soul desperately wanted and needed,” Barlow says. Bear agrees. “I’ve done a lot, but mostly as a kid, and for some reason that felt like it didn’t really count. I’ve been working so hard to outrun the ‘prodigy’ label,” she says. “[The Grammy] was really big for me because it was the first time people purely judged me based off music I did as an adult.”
Abigail Barlow (left) and Emily Bear
Maggie Shannon
Their post-Moana 2 slate as a duo includes the forthcoming biopic of Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers starring Jamie Bell and Margaret Qualley and their first produced stage musical, currently in development with a creative team attached. Bear (who is also an Emmy winner for her score for the PBS documentary Life) has scored two forthcoming films: Anderson .Paak’s feature debut, K-Pops, and Our Little Secret, a Netflix Christmas film starring Lindsay Lohan. Barlow, with a chuckle, says she may soon “release the album I wrote, like, a year-and-a-half ago.”
And then there’s the mystery “little musical idea” that first brought them together, a “very production-heavy” show “bringing you down the rabbit hole of what pop musical theater can be… which is very dear to us,” Barlow says with a knowing grin. It’s a reminder of the excitement they felt when they first met — and still feel in any session together. “We’re in love, musically,” Barlow says, “for real.”
This story appears in the Oct. 26, 2024, issue of Billboard.
When veteran concert promoter Louis Messina weighs adding an act to Messina Touring Group’s impressive stable of superstar artists, his eyes aren’t focused on the stage. Instead, he’s intently surveying the concert audience. “I watch eyes and lips: eyes, if they’re really focusing on the artists, and lips, if they’re singing along and if they’re smiling,” he says. “When I see that happening, that’s when I know I need to be involved. It’s rare that you see artists that can do that and [aren’t] just going through the motions. You know they bring this unique connection.”
Messina knows that feeling well; he remembers first experiencing it at just 7 years old, when his father took him to see Elvis Presley in his hometown of New Orleans. “I’ve never forgotten that energy in that room,” Messina says. “It was a feeling that I’ve never had before, and I’ve carried it until today. When artists and an audience connect with each other, it’s magical.”
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Seventy years later, Messina and his enviable roster have created plenty of magic together, too. The Messina Touring Group origin story began in 2001 with acts including his longtime client George Strait — and since then, each of the artists Messina exclusively promotes has been within one or two degrees of separation from the country legend (with the sole exception of The Lumineers). Taylor Swift, Kenny Chesney, Blake Shelton, Eric Church and Old Dominion all once opened for Strait; then Ed Sheeran and Shawn Mendes both opened for Swift.
Simply put, Messina says, without Strait “there wouldn’t be a Messina Touring Group.” But Messina’s own story started way earlier. His promoting career got off to a dubious start in New Orleans in 1972 when he sold out a Curtis Mayfield/B.B. King show — only to have the artists get stuck in Atlanta, unable to get to the gig. “I had 8,000 people trying to break the doors down to get their money back. The New Orleans riot squad had to come out,” he recalls. He learned a valuable lesson: “After I got over my depression, I had to go back into the ring. I got knocked down, but I didn’t get knocked out.”
After a tumultuous run in New Orleans, in 1975, Messina and his mentor and fellow promoter, Allen Becker, formed PACE Concerts in Houston. They introduced several new concepts into the live-event business, including touring multi-artist festivals such as the George Strait Country Festival and OzzFest, and were the first promoters to own outdoor sheds, starting with Nashville’s Starwood Amphitheater. Messina and Becker quickly realized they could reap the rewards of, as the late Becker used to say, the revenue from “popcorn, peanuts and parking” — and, in turn, greatly mitigate the financial risk of promoting concerts.
In 1997, Robert F.X. Sillerman bought PACE for $130 million as his SFX Entertainment consolidated the promotion business. In 2001, Messina launched Messina Touring Group, and in 2003, he partnered with AEG. His noncompete clause allowed him only to promote country acts, and he started with a passel that included Strait and Chesney, both of whom he still promotes. “Nobody else was paying attention to country acts back then,” Messina says. “What I did was take a little rock’n’roll mentality and brought it to Nashville; meaning I’m not going to do the same old same old.” He also gave each act its own dedicated team that they consistently work with from tour to tour.
On the fall day that Billboard speaks with the voluble Messina, now 77 and a father of six, he is at his desk in Austin. (Messina Touring Group’s 35 employees — 70% of whom are women — are spread between its Austin and Nashville offices.) “This is the time of the year where I’m busiest because I’m prepping for next year and the year after,” he says.
Still, he’s able to take a moment to look back. Last year was his company’s most successful yet, he says, with 2024 coming in second. Swift doesn’t report her concert totals to Billboard, but Billboard estimates her 2023 shows for The Eras Tour grossed $906.1 million (the tour will end Dec. 8). In 2024, Chesney completed his highest-grossing outing yet, according to Billboard Boxscore, with $159.5 million for the Sun Goes Down Tour, which ended in August. And Strait remains big business: His June 15 concert at Texas A&M’s Kyle Field set the all-time attendance record for a ticketed concert in the United States with 110,905 ticket-buying fans. “Everything’s clicking and so, you know, we’re happy,” Messina says.
But for Billboard’s 2024 Touring Executive of the Year, an artist’s potential career arc can’t be reduced to the success of any one tour.
“Louie isn’t a tour promoter. He’s an artist promoter… He’s a champion of not just the current tour he’s involved in with you, but your whole career,” says Church, who has worked with Messina for 12 years. “Louie always said to me, ‘You think your dreams are big, but you’ll never out-dream me.’ ”
Louis Messina
Jasmine Archie
Your father was a boxing promoter. Though you’ve said he didn’t influence you because your passion was music, what did you learn from him about taking risks?
I hate to say this because my dad’s passed away. He was a good man, but what I learned from him was what not to do. He was not a good businessperson. He did take me to see Elvis and exposed me to the excitement of what live music does. That’s what I’ve learned from my dad.
PACE pioneered the concept of touring artist festivals — multi-act events that would travel the country — but such stadium festivals are virtually gone now. Did local and regional festivals kill the touring artist festival?
I just ran out of talent. And the whole ego about “I’m not going to play in front of this guy… I need 110% billing… I need this. I need that” — it just wasn’t worth it. Then we started building amphitheaters and we made more money doing an amphitheater show than we did [promoting] stadium shows.
Two years into starting Messina Touring Group, you partnered with AEG. How does that relationship work?
I operate totally independent of AEG. Hell, a lot of times I’m competing with AEG over tours. They have their model, Live Nation has their model, and I have my model. My model is about careers, not tours. I always say I’m not in the rent-a-band business. I want to know what that artist’s vision is five and 10 years from now.
Legendary booking agent Wayne Forte unintentionally provided you with a light-bulb moment that changed your approach when you started Messina Touring Group. What did he say?
I was booking amphitheaters, and I referred to artists as inventory, and Wayne goes, “I’m sorry, Louis, did you just call artists inventory?” Literally, it stopped me in my tracks. I went, “I sure did.” At that moment, it totally reset my mind and where I was going in this business. I [wouldn’t] say I’d lost the passion, but I was a promoter that was just trying to sell popcorn and peanuts and parking. And I’m going, “This is not why I got in the business.” I got into the business because I love the passion of it. I changed my whole mentality at that point.
Most of your clients came from being opening acts for artists you were already promoting. Do you advise your acts on their openers?
With Kenny and George, I’m totally involved. Taylor always picks her opening acts. I’m involved with some and with others, I follow their lead. I believe there’s no such thing as overkill. Give the people their money’s worth. I’ve got George and Chris Stapleton and Little Big Town playing stadiums together and Zac Brown Band playing with Kenny. It’s magical.
The newest star in your orbit is Megan Moroney, who recently opened for Kenny Chesney even though you hadn’t seen her perform beforehand. Will she become your next client?
I’d love to work with her. I think she’s amazing. [Chesney’s manager] Clint [Higham] and I were talking about Kenny’s support and we brought up Megan Moroney. Kenny goes, “She’s only got one hit.” I go, “This album is so deep. Kenny, I’m telling you, this is going to work.” I’d never seen her perform, I just listened to her music and her songwriting. We put her on, and oh, my gosh, I’ve never seen Kenny so excited about an artist. He called me and he goes, “Louis, you were right. I was wrong.” But it didn’t take long for Kenny to recognize because Megan is such a natural star.
The production on Swift’s The Eras Tour is unlike anything that fans have seen. Has it changed what can be done onstage?
What Taylor has done is to me the best show I’ve ever seen. She amazes me night after night. She’s one of a kind. She’s always been like that. I’ve known her since she just turned 17… I always tell people, “You think you’re working? Go sit around Taylor for 15 minutes.” I remember when she was the first of three acts with Strait. She was the first one in the production office every day after visiting radio [stations], handwriting notes to people around the country. Ed’s the same way, Eric’s the same way, in their own way. None of the artists I work for is dialing anything in. They’re working their ass off.
The Ticketmaster site crashed when the Eras tickets went on sale, upsetting fans and leading to an antitrust suit against Live Nation and Ticketmaster. In hindsight, what could you have done differently?
When you have 15 million people trying to buy a million tickets, nothing could handle that. When we started adding shows, what [Swift’s management company] 13 and everybody decided to do was to stagger on-sales where instead of putting five shows up at once, we would put one show up at a time. Everybody’s blamed Ticketmaster, but I use this analogy: Imagine getting into a subway car in New York City. It holds 40 people, but 1,000 people are trying to get in that subway car. It just doesn’t work. They can’t get in. That’s what happened.
What’s the biggest change you’ve seen in negotiating artists’ fees over the last 10 years?
The biggest thing is [other promoters] playing with house money. These touring deals that some of my friends and competitors make, it’s ridiculous. The sales pitch [is] “What’s it going to take financially?” I don’t believe in that because if you’re tied to a check that somebody wrote to you, that means you have to play so many shows, your ticket price has to be this. You lose control of your own destiny. My trying to compete with a checkbook, that’s the hardest part I have because my sales pitch is “Let’s talk about the future. Let’s talk about your dreams.” Do what you’re supposed to do and the money will be there. If you chase the money, you’ll never get there.
Ed Sheeran has talked about trying to keep ticket prices low. Is there something other acts can learn from him?
No. This is one thing that’s wrong with artists that [want to price tickets too low]. Ed goes, “Louis, I want to go to bed at night knowing that this is the ticket price I wanted my fans to pay.” I go, “Ed, you’re beautiful for saying that, but here’s the problem: People are going to go to the secondary market and spend $700 on a ticket that you want to sell for $99… and you’re only going to get $99 of it.” I remember a long, long time ago working with George and his tickets were really reasonable and I did a printout of StubHub or whatever and said, “This is how much your tickets are being sold for right now.” And his eyes got big, and it was like a “Holy crap” moment for him. He had no idea.
Which acts are on your wish list?
I love Bruce Springsteen. I adore [Springsteen’s manager] Jon Landau and [tour manager] George Travis. They are all like family to me even though I don’t promote Bruce anymore these days because [Springsteen’s longtime agent] Barry Bell said I was too cheap, that I wouldn’t do the Bruce Springsteen deal. I don’t work at a discount price. My other fantasy [act] is Beyoncé. I adore her. Sometimes it’s cheaper to just buy a ticket than to get involved with the artists you love.
You spend a tremendous amount of time on the road. What’s your best travel tip?
My best travel tip I gave myself is I stopped drinking. This Christmas will be two years. I figured me and Jack Daniel’s had a good run together.
Any thoughts about retiring?
Seeing an artist go from an opening act to a stadium act and knowing that I had a little bit to do with it and walking into that sold-out stadium and seeing that energy… Wow! Why would I want to give that up? I’m the luckiest human being in the world.
Messina will receive Billboard’s inaugural Touring Titan honor at its Live Music Summit & Awards on Nov. 14.
This story appears in the Oct. 26, 2024, issue of Billboard.
In 2024, the average merchandise campaign consists of 50 pieces of artwork that can easily be adapted for use on varied tour and direct-to-consumer items, says Matt Young, president of Bravado, Universal Music Group’s merch and brand management company. But for Olivia Rodrigo’s GUTS campaign, he says, “I think we’ve done at least 375 unique pieces of art.”Rodrigo’s singular vision for her first arena tour extended to the products sold at its kiosks. As the album rollout and tour details came together last year, the pop star coordinated with management, Bravado and label partners to ensure that each piece of merch “felt cohesive to the greater GUTS world,” says Michelle An, Interscope Geffen A&M president/head of creative strategy.
The number of items kept ballooning as Rodrigo leaned into the creative process, with a literally hands-on approach to identifying opportunities — from concocting mood boards to helping create color palettes to touching fabrics to ensure T-shirt quality. “This was Olivia saying, ‘I think this could be more. How do we do it?’ ” Young recalls.
Some highlights of Rodrigo’s GUTS merch line include unique jewelry (silver crescent moon rings and star necklaces, a nod to the tour’s set design), a butterfly design on tote bags and pool floats, an elastic bandage tin to store “vampire”-ready Band-Aids and, ahead of Netflix’s Oct. 29 release of her tour film, a set of five GUTS popcorn boxes, perfect for a premiere-night group hang. Along with the souvenirs that are now widely available at Rodrigo’s online shop, Young also points out that her various retail partners, ranging from global fashion chains to suburban Targets, also featured their own exclusive items: “The Zara in Europe has to have something different than the Hot Topic in the U.S.”
And just as Rodrigo ended each show sporting a tank top with a cheeky message customized for each city, every GUTS tour stop with multiple shows offered customized merch, including city-specific T-shirts and unique concert artwork designed in conjunction with local female artists. Rodrigo and Bravado approached the posters (shown below) as the ultimate collectible item — and once word got out about them early in the live run, fans started arriving to shows hours early to hit the merch booth.
“Is it logistically challenging? Sometimes, yes,” Young admits. “But it’s offset by the passion. You’re helping build a relationship with a fan in a way that they can’t really get anywhere else.”
This story appears in the Oct. 26, 2024, issue of Billboard.
At most huge pop tours, there’s a moment when shrieking fans reach a true fever pitch — when the lights dim right before the show begins, or when the intro to the artist’s biggest hit kicks in, or during the break before the encore. All of those happened at Olivia Rodrigo’s first arena tour — but her favorite part of the show was when those eardrum-rattling cries were, in fact, mad as hell.
“When we play ‘all-american bitch,’ ” Rodrigo tells Billboard, “there’s a part at the end of the song where I ask the audience to think about something that pisses them off and then tell them to scream about it when the lights go off.” On the opener to her 2023 album, GUTS, Rodrigo juxtaposes folksy, facetious calm in the verses with enraged pop-punk in the refrain as she lays out society’s double standards for young women before unleashing a piercing wail. For nearly a hundred nights this year, the singer-songwriter has closed her main set by adding her own scream to an arena already full of them. “It’s definitely cathartic for me,” she says, “and I hope it is for the audience as well.”
The same could be said of the entire GUTS tour, where Rodrigo’s fans worldwide found the space to release their pent-up energy, as well as their excitement about one of the decade’s biggest new superstars. After bursting into the spotlight in 2021 with her debut album, Sour, and its No. 1 smashes “drivers license” and “good 4 u,” the former Disney+ TV star won the Grammy Award for best new artist in 2022 and quickly ascended to pop’s A-list. Yet the 2022 tour supporting Sour primarily played theaters, had to navigate lingering COVID-19 concerns and catered to a limited number of international markets, as Rodrigo, then 19, found her sea legs as a live performer.
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Two years later, the rock-fueled GUTS became another commercial triumph: Lead single “vampire” also topped the Billboard Hot 100, and the album scored one of 2023’s 10 biggest debut weeks. And this time, Rodrigo was prepared for arena audiences. The GUTS tour featured more than double the number of dates as her Sour trek while traveling to four continents (South America will become the fifth in March 2025) and grossed $186.6 million, according to Billboard Boxscore — even with its 1.4 million tickets sold at an average price of $128.81, in line with price-conscious acts like Coldplay and P!nk, and less than that of several major pop arena shows.
As for the show itself, “I actually made GUTS with the concert in mind,” Rodrigo says. “It’s so much fun to play songs that are more driving and heavy. I had a great time performing that aspect of the show every night.” Here’s how it all went down.
In her dressing room backstage.
Sami Drasin
‘She Knew Exactly What It Was That She Wanted’
As GUTS came together, so did plans for an accompanying tour that amplified every aspect of Rodrigo’s previous live run — bigger venues, more countries — all guided by a more defined point of view from the superstar at its center.
Aleen Keshishian (co-manager, Lighthouse Management + Media founder/CEO): Olivia had creative tour ideas when she was still writing GUTS, even before we had signed a deal with Live Nation or hired anyone for the tour. She already had visual references, voice notes, images.
Zack Morgenroth (co-manager, Lighthouse Management + Media partner): That gave us a lot of time to plan, and put together the right team, and get the show right.
Jason Danter (tour production manager): I connected with Zack and Aleen in March 2023; at that point, I was deep into getting the Beyoncé [Renaissance] tour up and running. I met Olivia when she came to the Beyoncé show at SoFi Stadium [in Inglewood, Calif.].
Tarik Mikou (creative director, Moment Factory): We’ve been working with Olivia for a while — we did her first live TV performance [on Saturday Night Live] and did the Sour tour, so I was really happy to get a call back for the GUTS tour.
Melissa Garcia (choreographer): They called me in for the Sour tour, and Olivia and I really meshed. A trusting environment [and] being able to have back-and-forth conversations is so important, especially when it comes to movement and putting artists in vulnerable situations.
Jared Braverman (senior vp of touring, Live Nation): It was very clear from initial conversations that the goal of this tour was to be global — to get to markets that Olivia had never been to and continue to grow by not just focusing on major cities. [Olivia] is massive everywhere. That’s a challenging thing to navigate — making time and space for all of these markets.
Morgenroth: The Sour tour was her first time out on the road and was a huge underplay, given the success of the album.
Dave Tamaroff (partner, WME): Her last tour could have been in arenas, based on everything she had going on.
Michelle An (president/head of creative strategy, Interscope Geffen A&M): There were a lot of conversations about [arenas] on the last tour, and ultimately, Olivia was the final decision-maker — she felt like she needed to do the theater run to get to know the fans in a more intimate way.
Sami Drasin
Morgenroth: There was so much demand from fans this time around that Live Nation said to us that arenas now felt like an underplay — we probably could have done stadiums everywhere. That being said, there was so much preparation for an arena tour: choosing each venue, making sure we had a good cadence for her. We tended to do only four shows in a week and never three shows in a row.
Tamaroff: We were surgical in our approach to the routing.
Morgenroth: Olivia cares so deeply about the fan experience, and that was also so key in the pricing of the tickets, which could have been priced for so much more. Everything, from having the Silver Star program — where fans could get a limited number of tickets everywhere around the arena for something like $20 — to looking at the landscape of touring artists and trying to price our tickets somewhere in the middle of them, was very intentional.
Keshishian: [Silver Star] was something that Coldplay had first done with Live Nation. Jared Braverman suggested it and Olivia loved it.
Braverman: [Pricing] takes a level of restraint, where you look at what you can do versus what you should do. You’ve got a young audience that’s very connected to Olivia, and we wanted to make this tour accessible for them.
Keshishian: We spent a lot of money on this tour, [but] we were incredibly judicious, going over every single line item in the budget to make sure we were spending money on the things that mattered to Olivia.
Garcia: Olivia is the captain of the ship — right from the very beginning, she knew exactly what it was that she wanted.
Mikou: We had like, 15 meetings, in Zoom and in person. She had reference boards on Pinterest. She would show us an image and be like, “I would love something like that in the show,” and give us these leads.
An: We definitely wanted fans to get to know the album. It wasn’t straight from the album release [in September 2023] into the tour [which began in February 2024].
Heather Picchiottino (costume designer): Olivia’s songwriting progression from Sour to GUTS felt very raw and up-front, so we wove punk rock through [the tour’s production].
Olivia Rodrigo: I tried to make the concert feel like my own spin on a rock show. My dream was for people to jump and scream and be all sweaty by the end.
Mikou: When you get to the dress rehearsals and start seeing the ideas pushed forward — we knew we had something special with this show.
The band.
Sami Drasin
Sami Drasin
‘It’s So Much Bigger in Every Way’
When the GUTS tour kicked off at Acrisure Arena in Palm Springs, Calif., on Feb. 23, Rodrigo unveiled a multi-act, visually striking stage show with dancing, wailing guitars and even a giant, suspended crescent moon for her to sit on while circling the audience.
Daisy Spencer (touring guitarist): We rehearsed so much leading up to the kickoff. We were so ready and eager to finally perform the show in front of people who were hearing it for the first time.
Garcia: Instead of reaching a few thousand people, she was in a much larger environment — which puts a lot more pressure on her.
Keshishian: There’s no comparison between theaters and arenas, in terms of prep.
Spencer: It’s so much bigger in every way. The energy on the Sour tour was palpable, like we were beginning something very exciting and everyone in the room could feel it. But I couldn’t have ever imagined what the GUTS tour would be like.
Rodrigo: An arena feels wildly different than a theater to me.
Garcia: One of the big notes that I would say [to Olivia] was “Invite the audience in”: Open your chest up, allow them in. And she absolutely did that. Between the Sour tour and this tour, she is absolutely way more comfortable in her skin.
Picchiottino: Olivia had so many iconic looks on the Sour tour, and some of the detailing in them were bows or little ruffles or tulle fabric. We really contrasted that with GUTS, with references to punk rock through clean, ’90s, minimal silhouettes, made out of fabrics that were metal mesh jewelry as opposed to a tissue fabric.
Mikou: We worked on creating four acts in the show. We start really strong with an energetic vibe, but we also go into her vocal range early on with “vampire” and “drivers license.” And then in the second act, we embark on a visual journey with dancers.
The dancers.
Sami Drasin
Keshishian: In terms of choreography, she didn’t want it to feel like a traditional pop show where the dancers can sometimes overpower the music. I think the dancers are only in six numbers.
Danter: It’s primarily a younger audience that wants to see her and hear her, so it doesn’t have to be overly complicated visually.
Garcia: We wanted to create a visceral reaction from her fans, and for Olivia, a rock approach was extremely important, so she wasn’t quite sure if she wanted to use dancers. We came up with utilizing the dancers in a very unique way to match her creative intention.
Mikou: And then in the third act, she’s flying on the moon.
Keshishian: From the very first conversation we had with her, she said, “I’d love to fly on a moon over my audience.”
Mikou: We had about 60 stars all around to create this immersive vibe in the arena, and the moon was on a 260-foot linear flying track and was a light box as well.
Garcia: Riding around the venue on the moon — that was another way for her to feel like she really gave every single person her time.
Mikou: That act has these big visual moments, but it’s also really simple and elegant at times, like “making the bed,” where’s she rising alone on a lift, surrounded by fans and their iPhone lights.
Keshishian: And then you have these beautiful acoustic moments where she’s just with Daisy [who’s playing] guitar at the edge of the thrust, and it’s just about the lyrics and her voice.
Spencer: That was all Olivia’s idea, and I feel so honored to sit next to her while we all have a giant group therapy session together on “happier” and “favorite crime.” I’m almost on the verge of tears when we finish that section because it’s such a beautiful feeling to hear everyone singing along with us.
Mikou: We ended with the punk-rock vibe in the fourth act, exploding everything at the end with the full band and fire on the screens.
Picchiottino: I think my favorite moment is the start of act four, when the chaos comes into the show. Olivia enters in this red romper in this foil fabric, and with the color of the lighting, it just signals this incredible energy.
Mikou: My personal favorite moment is probably “obsessed.” She gets on the plexiglass and starts to look at her audience, but with the camera below [the stage, feeding into the arena screens], it’s just such a strong image. That’s Olivia 2.0: so rock’n’roll, so much guitar, so much attitude.
Danter: Olivia turned 21 a couple of days before opening night, and as somebody with such short touring experience, she’s very, very professional.
Sami Drasin
Sami Drasin
Keshishian: She gets to the venue every single day six hours early. She practices the piano, she does vocal warmups, she does cardio. She does her sound check before literally every show, even on multiple nights in the same venue, which very few artists do.
Danter: Most artists don’t get that discipline until they’ve got a number of tours under their belt. But by [the opener in] Palm Springs, we were all like, “We’ve got nothing to worry about here.”
Rodrigo: The first dozen shows or so, it was a big adjustment for me, energywise. I had to really learn how to look up and take in the space. You definitely perform differently when you’re performing to that many people.
Danter: And now she’s an arena headliner, and it’s as if she’s been doing it for a long, long time.
‘These Gatherings Have Become Like a Ritual’
As Rodrigo traveled North America in early spring, Europe before summer, North America (again) in July and August, and Asia in early fall, fans around the world learned about the tour’s unofficial dress code, viral moments, philanthropic goals — and the superstar-in-waiting who opened its first leg.
Keshishian: Tour support is something that we talked about very early on. The Sour tour had Gracie Abrams opening, and then Chappell Roan opened in San Francisco on the last Sour date in North America.
Remi Wolf (opener, GUTS European leg): I was told that Olivia very carefully curated the openers for the show, so it was a major deal when we got the original call.
Keshishian: Olivia has this incredible knowledge of and reverence for female artists, in particular people who paved the way for her, like Alanis Morissette and Sheryl Crow and Bikini Kill. Her mom introduced her to a lot of these artists, including The Breeders. I went with her to see them play at the Wiltern [in October 2023] and was so excited to meet Kim and Kelley [Deal] backstage, and they agreed to open for her in New York and L.A.
Kim Deal (singer-guitarist, The Breeders): [Olivia] has talked about how, you know, “The Breeders broke my mind — there was pre-‘Cannonball’ and there was post-‘Cannonball.’ ” And I think she likes loud guitars — in this day and age! She finds loud guitars exciting and wants to be around them.
Sami Drasin
Tamaroff: She did four shows [with The Breeders] in New York and six in Los Angeles, and she really could have done a dozen more, based on demand.
Morgenroth: [The openers] are, in part, a tribute to Olivia’s ear. She’s known Chappell for a while. She’s always thought she was an incredible artist.
Rodrigo: Having her on the first leg of the GUTS tour was so much fun. I’m inspired by her so much as an artist, but she’s also been such a good friend to me over the years and she really helped me through some of the more stressful parts of the tour.
Braverman: We all knew what a talented artist and great performer [Chappell] is and hoped that fans would be as excited as we all were for her to be joining on these shows. The initial response was positive, but it wasn’t until the tour got underway that we started to see a shift that literally grew more each and every show.
Keshishian: Chappell was a surprise guest in L.A. [in August, after opening for the tour in February and March]. People asked us if we were going to have guest performers at all six shows in L.A., and we didn’t feel that we needed surprises just for the sake of it. But having Chappell come back and seeing her perform in front of Olivia’s audience after all this time, after so much had happened [in her own career]? It was really fun.
Rodrigo: It’s been incredible to watch her get the recognition she so rightfully deserves. She’s just further proof that being unapologetically yourself always pays off.
Morgenroth: From the moment people arrived at the show, we wanted them to have a great experience, and that’s everything from the merch, where things were customized for each city, to activations outside on the [concourse] and outside of the venue, like the interactive tour bus that we put together with Interscope and partners like American Express.
An: As we continued putting out singles and videos from the album [before the tour], fans got a better idea of what to wear and how to style themselves, and then they all connected by the time the tour came.
Keshishian: It became a really fun night for fans to get dressed up in creative outfits that Olivia inspired.
Garcia: Olivia has created a very unique vocabulary, and I think that’s why songs like “love is embarrassing” became so large on social media, with people trying to learn the dance from the show.
Keshishian: Her “love is embarrassing” dance went viral, and all these kids were doing the dance with the little “L” on the forehead.
Morgenroth: There was this viral TikTok trend, “Am I Too Old To Be Here?,” that would be used at the shows because there were so many people of different ages attending. And then we have this “Dad Idea, Right?” moment, where the kids get a kick out of how many dads are enjoying the show.
Keshishian: In every city, she wore a different tank top [during the encore] that had these cheeky jokes about the city, like “Phuket, It’s Fine” in Bangkok or “Bad Idea, Innit?” in London.
Picchiottino: That was Olivia’s idea: “How fun would it be to have a new slogan for each city and make each show feel special?”
An: I think for the Livies, these gatherings have become like a ritual. They can scream at the top of their lungs about what’s bothering them and be a little more alternative or punk, but at the same time be feminine and girlie. You just see everything that Olivia stands for being celebrated.
Fans turn out in their GUTS best.
Sami Drasin
Sami Drasin
Keshishian: Before the tour began, it was important to Olivia to add a charitable component and do something that would have a lasting impact after the tour was over. That became the Fund 4 Good, and it was focused on what is important to her, which is helping women and girls. We vetted each organization in every country that Olivia toured in, and we wanted to have a very localized impact because obviously women in different countries have different needs.
Rodrigo: Being on tour [so soon] after Roe v. Wade got overturned made activism very important — especially considering I performed in many states that currently have abortion bans in place, I wanted to do everything I could to support organizations in each territory that are doing essential work in providing access to health care and other human rights.
Morgenroth: We’ve tied it beyond the tour already — she did an Erewhon smoothie, and all of the proceeds from her side were given to the fund. This is something that is going to be part of everything from here on out.
Keshishian: Olivia performed in the Philippines for the first time in October — which was a dream of hers, as a Filipino American — and she wanted to do it as a gift, so all net proceeds will go to a local charity [women’s health care organization Jhpiego] through the Fund 4 Good.
Rodrigo: Through the fund, I’ve met lots of incredible people who are making such positive changes in the world, and I’ve learned so much. I look forward to learning more and continuing to champion causes I care about.
‘She’s Revealing Another Side of Herself’
As Rodrigo wrapped the GUTS 2024 run and prepares for the Oct. 29 release of its Netflix tour film, she has snapped into focus as a new-school arena rock performer with a fastidious streak.
Danter: When you get to rehearsals and everything starts to fall into place, a lot of artists and managers go, “OK, this is the show.” As we got closer to opening night, we were still getting notes from Olivia, Zack and Aleen. It’s that search for perfection, which is refreshing.
Garcia: There was that younger vibe about her on the Sour tour, a little sillier, and on the GUTS tour, she definitely is thinking more and every detail matters more, no matter how microscopic.
Picchiottino: I’ve really enjoyed the process of refining and refining, being so specific about the tour visuals. I think I have over 60 sketches on my iPad, for five looks.
An: You could really feel that she was more confident this go-round because she understood how things worked and knew what conversations to have. She was the boss of this.
Mikou: The evolution from the last tour, it’s almost like she’s revealing another side of herself.
Sami Drasin
Braverman: In a lot of ways, it’s like a throwback rock show. I don’t think a lot of these fans had experienced anything like that.
Keshishian: Most of the band was on the Sour tour, and every member is female or nonbinary. So for all these people watching, to see them rocking out in an arena, I think it’s really powerful.
Deal: She’s very respectful of the younger members of her audience — she knows they’re there, she’s very sweet with them, and she does not talk down to them at all. There are some cusswords and there are some loud guitars, and she expects them to be where she is. And I thought that was very cool.
Keshishian: Regarding the film, there are tens of millions of people that did not get tickets to this show, and we wanted to make sure that all of Olivia’s fans had the ability to see it. So we set up 22 cameras for the last two L.A. shows, and we chose Netflix to be our partner because they have the largest global reach.
Tamaroff: Watching her prove who she is as a global superstar… she’s one of the most talented singer-songwriters on the planet already, but being able to showcase her talent as a performer, hearing people say that this was one of the best nights of their lives, that’s why we all do what we do.
Garcia: With age comes a little bit more pressure, and I think it’s coming from herself: to be better, to figure out the next challenge for herself, to see where she can break through next. She just keeps growing.
Rodrigo: I wanted to make sure that I could still connect with the audience, even in a venue as big as an arena.
Rodrigo will be honored as 2024 Touring Artist of the Year at the Billboard Live Music Summit & Awards in Los Angeles on Nov. 14.
This story appears in the Oct. 26, 2024, issue of Billboard.
Hidden up a wooded hill in the sprawling backyard of his suburban Los Angeles estate, Dijon “Mustard” McFarlane is on the tennis court, perfecting his forehand.
“I’m an extremist,” the 34-year-old producer explains as he warms up his top spin. “I play every day, sometimes two times a day.” The L.A.-born musician, who shot to prominence at 21 when he produced Tyga’s 2011 hit “Rack City,” beckons his coach to serve again. After some rallying, Mustard slices a ball that nearly hits the Billboard cameraman kneeling beneath him, trying to get a close-up shot. “Oh, sorry! Man, you’re brave for sitting there,” Mustard says.
“I play, too; it’s cool,” the photographer replies, unfazed.
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“Aight, you’re one of us,” Mustard says with a grin, pointing at the man with his racket. For a second, it feels like the sportier version of a knighting ceremony.
He may still be polishing his tennis game, but after more than a decade of making hip-hop hits, Mustard scored an indisputable ace this year, reaching his highest career peak to date as the beat-maker behind Kendrick Lamar’s Billboard Hot 100 No. 1 “Not Like Us” — the biggest hit in Lamar’s spring beef with Drake. On the track, which cemented Lamar’s victory in the court of public opinion, the Pulitzer Prize winner is at his most venomous, using Mustard’s pop earworm of an instrumental as a Trojan horse for accusing Drake of being an Atlanta “colonizer” who steals sounds from local rappers and to resurface the serious allegations of Drake’s supposed predilection for underage girls.
But for such a hate-fueled anthem, “Not Like Us” also proved to be a uniting force for the world of West Coast hip-hop — unity by way of a common enemy. “When I was growing up, I watched 2Pac, ‘California Love,’ Dr. Dre, Snoop, the Death Row days,” says Mustard, who was born and raised in L.A.’s Crenshaw neighborhood. “It’s like being a part of that again, but in this day and age.”
The release of “Not Like Us” did plenty to galvanize the West Coast scene on its own, but Lamar further cemented its place in hip-hop history when he hosted The Pop Out — Ken & Friends, a Juneteenth concert at the L.A.-area Kia Forum. It was a show that was so sacred to L.A. natives that rival gangsters danced and sang to “Not Like Us” practically hand in hand onstage. To warm everyone up, Lamar enlisted Mustard to DJ a bevy of hits. But before literally popping out from under the stage, Mustard, a lifelong DJ typically confident in front of crowds, found himself on the verge of a panic attack. “I was nervous as s–t,” he confesses. “It just didn’t feel real.”
Aaron Sinclair
It was a full-circle moment for the producer, whose wide-ranging résumé — encompassing rap, R&B, EDM and pop — also includes hits like 2 Chainz’ “I’m Different,” Jeremih and YG’s “Don’t Tell ’Em,” Tinashe’s “2 On,” Ella Mai’s “Boo’d Up,” Lil Dicky and Chris Brown’s “Freaky Friday” and Rihanna’s “Needed Me.” “When I was a teenager, I’d write with YG in Inglewood [Calif.]. He used to live right across the street [from The Forum]. I made ‘Rack City’ across the street from there,” says Mustard, shaking his head in disbelief.
To start his set, Mustard walked up to his turntables, appearing calm and collected, even though he secretly wasn’t. After he fiddled with the knobs, the audio of a viral TikTok began: “The real takeaway from the Drake and Kendrick beef,” the voice of TikToker @lolaokola said, “is that it’s time for a DJ Mustard renaissance.” The crowd began to roar as the audio continued: “When every song on the radio was on a Mustard beat, we were a proper country. It was happier times. The closest we have ever been to true unity.”
After “Rack City” became a smash in 2012, the artist-producer then known as DJ Mustard seemed unstoppable. There was something about his simple formula of “a bassline, clap and it’s over… maybe an 808,” as he puts it, plus that catchy producer tag “Mustard on the beat, hoe!” that attracted pop purists and hip-hop heads alike, making his work go off both at the club and on the radio.
“Being a DJ, being in front of people and parties, I know what makes people move,” Mustard tells me between volleys with his coach. Every element of a Mustard track is done with clear intention to propel the song, not to clutter it. “I always used to tell Ty [Dolla $ign], ‘Man, you’re so musical, bro, but that s–t does not matter if they can’t hear what’s going on,’ ” Mustard recalls. “Simplicity is key for me and bridging the gap between that and the real musical s–t — but it still needs to be ratchet enough to be fun, too.”
Aaron Sinclair
He learned to use turntables from one of the best: his uncle and father figure, Tyrei “DJ Tee” Lacy, an L.A. DJ who frequently soundtracked parties for Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg and other local legends. Later in the day, I follow Mustard to Lacy’s restaurant, the District by GS on Crenshaw Boulevard. “This is where they got into it in Boyz n the Hood!” exclaims Mustard, gesturing to the street in front of the restaurant.
As he walks through the staff entrance and the kitchen, he daps up each person, his diamond-encrusted chain with a Jesus Christ pendant swinging as he moves. He sits down in a corner booth, and Lacy comes to join him. Mustard orders the usual: fried catfish. “Mustard as a child is the same as Mustard as an adult,” Lacy says. “He always cared about his craft — always.”
When Mustard was growing up, Lacy would often bring him along to his DJ gigs. One time, when he brought his nephew to a party in the Pacific Palisades, he had an ulterior motive. “I actually had [intentionally] double-booked myself,” Lacy says. “ ‘Don’t leave me,’ Mustard said. But I was like, ‘Oh, you’ll be all right. Just play that and play this, and you got it.’ ” Three hours later, he got a call from Mustard: “Come get me! The party was so cracking, they busted all the windows!”
From then on, music always paid the bills for Mustard, and he became the hottest DJ at Dorsey High School in Crenshaw. Within a few years, he would be one of the hottest producers in the world.
Amid the height of his early success, Mustard remembers a conversation he had with another radio-defining producer: Timbaland. “We were talking about the music industry,” he recalls. “He’s just like, ‘I want you to know, man, you’re not going to always be hot.’ ” Even though Mustard says he never let his ego get out of hand during those first years of success — his mother made sure of that — the caveat felt unfathomable at the time.
By the end of 2014, just two years after the peak of “Rack City,” Mustard seemingly had it all: 23 Hot 100 producer credits already, a new mansion on a hill outside the city, beautiful jewelry, even his own line of DJ Mustard mustard bottles. (Actually, he regrets that last one: “That was not an ‘I made it’ moment; that was a dumbass moment.”) Still, Timbaland warned him, “There’s going to be a time when nobody picks up your [calls] — soak this all in, and when that time comes, save your money… don’t panic,’ ” Mustard recalls. “And then it became a thing. And I was just like, ‘Ah, this is what [Tim] was talking about,’ and thank God I was ready for it.”
Mustard photographed September 16, 2024 at Johnnie’s Pastrami in Culver City, Calif.
Aaron Sinclair
As the decade wore on, his number of Hot 100-charting songs each year declined, from notching 14 in 2014 alone to between one and five each subsequent year. Still, a colder period for Mustard was better than what most musicians can ever dream of. And as time wore on, Mustard made the conscious choice to evolve. He focused on developing himself as not just a producer, but an artist in his own right. He started his own record label, 10 Summers, which launched the career of Grammy-winning R&B singer Ella Mai.
“I think with any producer, the ultimate goal is to break an artist. I believe that’s the hardest thing for a producer to do… I’m always for the challenge,” he says. It’s certainly something he has proved an aptitude for time and again, producing career-breakthrough tracks for artists like Mai, Tinashe, YG, Tyga and Roddy Ricch.
“You can’t be hot forever,” Mustard explains. “Even the best in the game… You have to reinvent yourself. And that’s what I did.”
Every hip-hop fan remembers where they were when “Not Like Us” dropped. Released the day after two other Lamar dis tracks, “6:16 in LA” and “Meet the Grahams,” no one saw it coming — not even the beat’s producers.
Mustard, for his part, was “on [my] way to a baby shower. Somebody sent me a message, and I was just like, ‘Oh, s–t,’ and then I hung up in their face, and I was just playing it over and over.” When he arrived at the baby shower, he could already hear the neighbors blasting it from over the fence.
Fellow “Not Like Us” beat-maker Sean Momberger was getting his car towed by AAA after a flat tire. “My friend texted me that Kendrick had dropped again,” he says. “I clicked on the link and heard our beat, and I was just shocked. I FaceTimed Mustard, and we were yelling and laughing.”
Mustard and Momberger were never in the studio with Lamar (or Sounwave, the song’s third credited producer and a longtime collaborator of the rapper) to make “Not Like Us.” The song started with Momberger sending Mustard some sample ideas and Mustard doing what he does best — “infectious” and “catchy” production with “a simplistic beauty driven by bouncy drums and West Coast undertone,” as Momberger describes it. But while the track stays true to the Mustard sound everyone knows, it also embodies how he has iterated it over the years to be fuller and more sample-driven.
Mustard texted it, along with about six other beats, to Lamar — who said nothing but reacted with a “heart.” Though he wasn’t in the room with Lamar this time, he had been in the studio with him before, years ago. Once, he says, Terrace Martin, a core musician on Lamar’s 2015 album, To Pimp a Butterfly, took him to one of that project’s sessions. “I remember seeing that s–t and being like, ‘Whoa, that’s a lot going on.’ With me and YG [Mustard’s most frequent collaborator], we didn’t have that many musicians around. That was my first time seeing s–t like that. Thundercat was there, Sounwave was there. Terrace was there… I knew [that album] was going to be some crazy s–t, but I didn’t know it would be like that.”
Though he couldn’t have predicted the impact To Pimp a Butterfly would have on culture, Mustard says he has a good intuition for hit records. “I don’t want to say I’m always right, but I’m pretty much on the money,” he notes. Mai agrees: “Mustard’s greatest strength is his ear.”
Aaron Sinclair
For all his success producing radio-ready singles, however, one-off collaborations don’t move Mustard like they used to. “I can do stuff like ‘Not Like Us’ every day,” he says. “I can do that with my eyes closed… In my next phase, I’m not doing singles,” he insists, though he does admit he would do “Not Like Us” again “100,000 times” without hesitation. “I’ll do [a single for an artist] if I can have the whole album or the majority of the album, but other than that, I don’t get anything out of that.”
It’s why he dropped his own album, Faith of a Mustard Seed, this summer, which features Ricch, Travis Scott (whose “Parking Lot” with Mustard went to No. 17 on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart), Ty Dolla $ign, Future, Young Thug and more hip-hop heavyweights. Mustard reckons the album (named after a suggestion by his late friend Nipsey Hussle) took him five years to perfect — the equivalent of a lifetime in popular music, especially hip-hop. During that time, rap went from being constantly atop the Hot 100 to weeks, months and even a whole year passing without a rap No. 1. Top players like Thug and Gunna went to jail; Nipsey, Young Dolph and Takeoff died; Ye went rogue. New faces like Yeat and 4batz popularized new styles; Afrobeats and reggaetón seeped into the American rap mainstream.
Still, Mustard believes Faith of a Mustard Seed warranted the wait. “There’s nothing on that album that I feel like in 10 years I’ll say, ‘Damn, I wish I did that better,’ ” he says. “I hope it teaches kids that you can take your time and do the right thing. You don’t have to rush it out. I think [the industry] today is just so fast-paced.”
Mustard hopes the perfectionism that drove both Faith of a Mustard Seed and “Not Like Us,” including Lamar’s own multifaceted bars, will encourage artists to “really rap now… I think now it’s opened the door for … the real rappers that love rap music and lyrics and the double, triple, quadruple entendres and all that s–t cool again.”
Aaron Sinclair
And he’s hoping — or rather, manifesting, sometime between waking up and hitting the tennis court — that this dedication to his craft will yield a Grammy next year. “I definitely speak it into existence every morning,” he says with a laugh. “The highest reward we can get as musicians is a Grammy. I know that people talk like it’s not a thing, but it actually is. It’s like Jayson Tatum right now saying, ‘I don’t want to win the NBA Finals.’ Like, if that’s the case, then go play at Venice Beach.”
Regardless of whether he takes home a trophy on Feb. 2, he knows he has something monumental to look forward to precisely a week later, when Lamar headlines the Super Bowl halftime show — where “Not Like Us” will no doubt get its biggest showcase yet. “Of course I’m going,” he says. “I’m going to go and be in a box and watch… I just can’t wait… I might shed a tear!”
Yet despite surreal moments like that, Mustard says his life is “still the same” as it always was. “I don’t take no for an answer. I’m persistent. Every day, I’m doing something that has to do with the journey of trying to get to where I’m trying to go. At this point, I don’t know how far I can go. I don’t think there’s a limit. I’ve always been like that. That’s how I got ‘Rack City’ — just waking up every day, making beats… and hoping.”
This story also appears in the Oct. 5, 2024, issue of Billboard.