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Sitting in a sun-drenched room at Los Angeles’ Beverly Hilton, Gracie Abrams is shaking her head “no.” She’s reflecting on a breakout 2024 — during which she scored her highest-charting Billboard Hot 100 hit to date and received her second Grammy Award nomination, for “Us,” a collaboration with none other than Taylor Swift. But Abrams still struggles to see herself as the superstar she’s become.
“It’s such a dream and a pretty wild ride to look back on the year and be able to reflect on all of these moments that I never could have imagined ever happening,” the 25-year-old says in quiet awe. When it comes to the matter of her smash hit “That’s So True,” it is true — she never saw it coming. After humming the song’s in-the-works hook and melody for months, she and her songwriting partner and roommate Audrey Hobert finished it in about 15 minutes one day after “laughing our asses off on the roof” of New York’s Electric Lady Studios.

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The catchy, stream-of-consciousness song was one of four additions to the deluxe version of Abrams’ second album, The Secret of Us (which arrived in October), but quickly surpassed the album’s previous hits, including “I Love You, I’m Sorry” and “Close to You” (which peaked at Nos. 19 and 49, respectively, while “True” reached No. 6). Such wins have helped Abrams, who co-wrote and co-­produced every track on The Secret of Us and its deluxe edition, earn the Billboard‘s 2025 Women in Music Songwriter of the Year honor — but, with characteristic humility, she won’t say she’s mastered the craft just yet.

“F–k no! Sorry,” she says with a laugh. “I feel very far away from having mastered anything in my life. But I will continue to attempt to get closer to that point.”

Sami Drasin

Since you released your debut album in 2023, how have you grown as a songwriter?

What I can point to specifically that has broadened my horizons is the partnership I’ve had with Audrey. She’s my oldest friend and we very much grew up together, and then to fold in this collaborative [relationship] was not something either of us ever would have anticipated. But as a songwriter, to find someone who you feel so open with, who you trust so much, who knows everything about you, who knows what your conversational language sounds like, who knows if you’re lying about a feeling… it infused so much life into our album that we made together.

What’s an example of a time she called “bulls–t” on you?

Less like “bulls–t” and more [like] in the morning if I would come downstairs and she’s like, “How are you doing?” I’m like, “I’m fine.” And she’s like, “You f–king liar.” Or like, “I’m really over that person,” [and she’s like,] “No, you’re not, you liar.” We checked each other as much in our songwriting process as we did in our day-to-day friendship.

Sami Drasin

Sami Drasin

As we speak, you’re about to head out on your European/U.K. tour [which Abrams wrapped March 12]. How did you spend your time before returning to the road?

I have just come back from being at Aaron [Dessner’s studio, Long Pond, in New York] so I feel like… I’m in the middle of something. I don’t know what it is yet… We’ve been collecting a whole lot of music over the past few months, and he and I are both very curious about all of it because I think [the songs] belong in different worlds a little bit, which excites me. I think that means there are many possibilities for what either the singular project looks like or multiple [projects].

You said you haven’t mastered songwriting yet. Do you feel close?

No. Oh, my God, no. I want to broaden my vocabulary times a thousand. I want to spend the majority of my year reading so that I can do that. I feel nowhere near that level. I have a million people I want to continue to learn from. Taylor is a great example of someone I’ve been lucky enough to spend a lot of time around and every single time I’m like, “Tell me everything you know, please. Teach me how to be.” I want to live fully and do my best to capture what that feels like.

Gracie Abrams photographed February 1, 2025 at The Beverly Hilton in Los Angeles.

Sami Drasin

This story appears in the March 22, 2025, issue of Billboard.

In the summer of 2023, Tyla made a massive splash with her Billboard Hot 100 top 10 popiano smash, “Water.” But that turned out to be just a hint of what the South African star was capable of — and in March 2024, she released her acclaimed self-titled debut album, a showcase for her expert fusion of amapiano, Afrobeats, pop and R&B.
That same month, she was forced to cancel her debut Coachella set and first headlining international tour in the wake of a back injury. But no setback could stop Tyla, 23, from shining in the global spotlight. She ditched her aquatic motif for a sand-sculpted Balmain gown for her debut at the Met Gala in New York last May, and this year, she’ll join A-listers like André 3000 and Usher as a member of the Costume Institute Benefit Host Committee as the event honors Black style. In October, she performed her song “Push 2 Start” for the first time at the Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show; the sweltering reggae-infused track from the deluxe version of Tyla, released just days before, became her second Hot 100 entry.

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Following her historic 2024 Grammy Award win — when “Water” took home the inaugural best African music performance trophy, making her the youngest-ever African artist to win a Grammy — Tyla picked up more hardware at the BET Awards, Billboard Music Awards and MTV Video Music Awards. And this year’s Women in Music Impact honoree remains determined to spotlight African music and bring her native South African amapiano to the world’s biggest stages while dispelling the notion that she, and all African artists, only make “Afrobeats” music. Case in point: Come April, Tyla will finally play Coachella.

“The fact that what I’ve been doing has impacted people all over the world, especially African artists, is special,” she says.

You’ve been very vocal while winning “Afrobeats” awards. Is it hard to relish those victories when your music is being mislabeled?

It’s still an honor because I do use Afrobeats’ influence in my music. I represent Africa as a whole. Genre is so fluid, so it’s become difficult to categorize it. If people see it as the influence that the artist is using in their music getting its recognition, it’ll help more [with perceptions], rather than being like, “This person is not that.”

Who are the women who’ve been the most influential in your life as an artist?

Tems is a big one. What she’s been able to do has been very inspiring. Britney [Spears], Whitney Houston, Aaliyah.

What performance that you’ve done in the past year have you found most impactful?

The shows I did back home [in Johannesburg, Cape Town and Pretoria]. I haven’t really done much there since everything has happened [with “Water” blowing up]. Those were the biggest headlining shows I’ve ever had. It was fun being able to have that much control over the stage, the dancing, the lighting, the song arrangements. It was really cool to create something from scratch and give home a whole show that I’ve never been able to give them.

What else do you have in store for 2025?

New album. I’ve changed a lot in a short amount of time because I was kind of forced to with how fast I had to adapt to everything. I don’t think it’s going to be the same energy [as Tyla] at all, especially with what I’ve started making. It’s different, but also still Tyla.

This story appears in the March 22, 2025, issue of Billboard.

Hours into their Billboard Women in Music photo shoot, the members of aespa are goofing off. High-pitched giggles reverberate through the studio as Winter, Karina, Ningning and Giselle tickle one another’s sides, talk in silly voices and play with the straps on their leathery stage outfits.
It’s mesmerizing to watch the four early-20-somethings be so, well, real, not just because they’re one of K-pop’s most polished acts — which they demonstrate by immediately snapping back into place once the photographer is ready again — but also because ­aespa has a particular penchant for the surreal. The SM Entertainment group debuted in 2020 with K-pop’s first lineup to feature both human and virtual members, pairing each girl with an artificial intelligence (AI) avatar as part of a cyberpunk musical metaverse marked by dark, 808-laced hyperpop and edgy-chic outfits.

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Ever since, the act has leveraged its niche into unprecedented crossover success — in November, mini-album Whiplash made it the first K-pop girl group to have six projects reach the Billboard 200 top 50, and it just wrapped its second global arena tour — and a reputation for being one of the genre’s “most adventurous and contemporary” groups, as its “Over You” collaborator Jacob Collier put it to Billboard in January.

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But going forward, 2025’s Billboard Women in Music Group of the Year also wants to focus on something potentially even more subversive: showing that beneath the personas, its members are just those real-life girls blowing off steam between camera flashes. “We’re not actual AI; we do have days where we don’t feel the best,” Giselle says once the foursome has squeezed together on a couch. “Our storyline can be fun to keep up with, but I want fans to look up to aespa for our human traits, too.”

Karina

Abi Polinsky

Why do you think aespa has made a name as trendsetters?

Giselle: There’s always going to be trends, but we don’t follow them because we can’t. We have our own story to tell that was set from the start.

Winter: We usually talk about ourselves more than love [in our lyrics]. We’re the main characters of our stories.

Karina: We’re honest. Of course, you have to be professional and present your best self, but we also try to show the not-perfect side. We’re not trying to filter everything or over-mask ourselves.

Giselle

Abi Polinsky

What’s next in aespa’s evolution?

Ningning: We did start out with our avatar concept, but now we’re also trying really hard to explore different concepts and themes. In the future, there may be moments where the fans don’t see the avatars.

Karina: We want aespa to be a really stylish group, not only in fashion and music, but also in terms of versatility and excelling in every genre. I also want all our members to shine individually when we’re together and even when we’re not together.

From left: Ningning, Karina, Giselle, and Winter of aespa photographed on February 10, 2025 in New York.

Abi Polinsky

Who are your favorite artists/dream collaborators at the moment?

Ningning: Doechii. I’d just really like to meet her.

Winter: Billie Eilish. She’s so good at expressing her honest feelings through her music.

Karina: Olivia Dean. Whenever I need to find composure, I listen to her.

Giselle: SZA. Her music is so hard to get sick of — and very relatable.

Winter

Abi Polinsky

As a girl group, how do you support one another?

Ningning: We’re all from different countries and environments, but we’ve been doing this for five years. They’re always there for me. Working with this mindset that we’re in this together makes it easier to handle challenging situations and emotions.

Winter: I don’t think we could’ve made it through this alone. We’ve had to overcome certain obstacles, but with each other’s support, we were able to move forward. (Karina giggles as Giselle starts poking her ­affectionately.) These girls are all very precious to me.

Ningning

Abi Polinsky

This story appears in the March 22, 2025, issue of Billboard.

Less than an hour into February’s Grammy Awards telecast, one of the evening’s undeniable peak moments occurred. Doechii — the charismatic, lyrically dexterous Florida rapper who was up for three awards that night — won best rap album, making her just the second solo female rapper (and third overall) to win the honor. “Don’t allow anybody to project any stereotypes on you, to tell you that you can’t be here, that you’re too dark, or that you’re not smart enough, or that you’re too dramatic, or you’re too loud,” she declared in a tearful acceptance speech that instantly went viral.

For Billboard’s Woman of the Year, it was the culmination of a stunning rise, propelled by her acclaimed mixtape Alligator Bites Never Heal. But it was also just a beginning: The 26-year-old Tampa MC hasn’t even dropped her debut album yet. 

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Doechii uploaded her first song to SoundCloud when she was just 16 and, in the following years, put out a pair of mixtapes, the latter of which included her first viral hit, 2020’s “Yucky Blucky Fruitcake.” In 2021, she guested on Isaiah Rashad’s “What U Sed,” and in 2022, she became the rapper’s labelmate after signing a joint deal with Capitol Records and Top Dawg Entertainment.

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Her Kodak Black-featuring single, “What It Is (Block Boy)” — released in early 2023, around when she was named Billboard’s Women in Music Rising Star — became her highest-peaking entry on the Billboard Hot 100 at that date, but a fraught period followed; subsequent singles didn’t catch on, and Doechii was, as she later wrote on social media, “battling differences with [her] label and a creative numbness that broke [her].” To ease that tension, she turned to dance music. In March 2024, Doechii joined forces with Miami MC JT and DJ Miss Milan — the latter is now a fixture in her artist universe — to release “Alter Ego,” a vivacious house-rap track that served as a palate cleanser for the fans who hadn’t enjoyed her pop-rap swings from 2023, while also setting the stage for her “Swamp Sessions,” weekly drops of new music that led up to Alligator Bites Never Heal’s late-August release.

The mixtape featured many “Swamp Sessions” tracks, though it wasn’t an instant smash, debuting at No. 117 on the Billboard 200. But for Doechii, that was just a jumping-off point to let her singular vision and meticulous world-building — magnetic live and televised performances anchored by smartly assembled medleys and athletic, Bob Fosse-referencing choreography; proudly Black glam; idiosyncratic music videos nodding equally to ballroom culture, Westerns and telenovelas — blossom.

In the process, Doechii spun gold from one of the most painful periods of her life, and by late 2024, she was inescapable. In September, she featured on Katy Perry’s dance-pop single “I’m His, He’s Mine,” and the following month, she delivered a scene-stealing verse on Tyler, The Creator’s Chromakopia standout “Balloon.” In December, she mounted a pair of eye-catching performances that kicked her rise into high gear: first, a medley of “Boiled Peanuts” and “Denial Is a River” on The Late Show With Stephen Colbert that featured her own choreography; and, just two days later, her thrilling NPR Tiny Desk set, which quickly dominated social media thanks to her fastidious storytelling and cohesive arrangements.

As her star has risen, Doechii’s commitment to exalting all parts of her dark-skinned, Black queer self has remained paramount. It’s why her first unaccompanied Hot 100 entry was “Denial Is a River,” in which she confides to her therapist that her boyfriend had been cheating on her with another man — just one example of how refreshingly honest (and unafraid to get messy on wax) an artist she is. The week following the Grammys, Alligator Bites Never Heal soared to No. 14 on the Billboard 200, and in late February, “Denial Is a River” peaked at No. 21 on the Hot 100, while the track “Nissan Altima,” which had been nominated for the best rap performance Grammy, hit No. 73.

“To be so fresh in her career, Doechii has incredible vision and focus,” Top Dawg Entertainment president Terrence “Punch” Henderson Jr. says. “She’s a true student of hip-hop and it shows based on how she’s being embraced in the culture. The future is wide open for her.”

Now, even as Alligator Bites Never Heal continues to find new fans, Doechii is already scoring hits outside of it. Her collaboration with Blackpink superstar Jennie, “ExtraL,” debuted on the Hot 100 in March, and her latest release, “Anxiety,” is also having a major impact. Originally a 2019 direct-to-YouTube track, “Anxiety” was sampled by New York drill rapper Sleepy Hallow last year, and after a February Fresh Prince of Bel-Air-inspired TikTok trend, audiences begged for a new solo version by the Swamp Princess, who quickly obliged in early March. (The track debuted at No. 13 on the Hot 100 — her highest-peaking hit on the chart yet — and Doechii recently added it to Alligator Bites Never Heal.)

She did so as she descended on Paris Fashion Week, where her spectacularly theatrical looks made her the event’s undisputed victor — just ask Anna Wintour or Thom Browne — and affirmed she’s more central to the pop culture conversation than ever. Case in point: An offhand quip she made on Hot Ones about straight men being one of her dating red flags set social media ablaze for a week straight.

Around the same time, Doechii made a surprise live appearance that proved why she’ll always rise above that noise: At a Miami festival, Lauryn Hill invited her onstage to duet on “Doo Wop (That Thing),” then yielded the stage for Doechii to perform her own “Catfish.” Rapping and singing alongside her “hero,” the raw talent that makes Doechii an especially bright light in an ever-precarious industry was on full display — a reminder that, as she said at the Grammys, she’s a true “testimony” to the merits of following a vision and trusting that the world will eventually catch up to you.

This story appears in the March 22, 2025, issue of Billboard.

Erykah Badu remembers her last moments of normalcy. The generational talent who changed the course of R&B and hip-hop with her home-cooked neo-soul has never truly been “normal,” of course. But before Badu was the futuristic stylist we know her to be, she was just a young woman from Dallas. One who traveled to New York during the paralyzing North American blizzard of 1996 to finish a debut album she hoped would be good enough to allow her to make another one. “That’s how I met New York. Like, ‘Oh, you cold!’ ” she says in the much more agreeable climate of her hometown. “I was like, ‘OK, if this is what I got to do — then this is what I got to do.’ ”

Despite the frigid weather, the then-25-year-old Badu found a warm and welcoming community in Brooklyn’s Fort Greene neighborhood. In 1992, Entertainment Weekly correctly noted the area was the “red-hot center of a national black arts renaissance.” Chris Rock called it home, as did Gil Scott-Heron. Digable Planets copped a spot and recorded its second album, Blowout Comb, as a love letter to the hood. Badu moved into a cozy apartment above Mo’s Bar & Lounge, right around the way from one of her favorite spots, Brooklyn Moon Café. Spike Lee’s 40 Acres and a Mule — the studio behind Do the Right Thing, Malcolm X and Jungle Fever — was close by. “[I was] right in the center of Blackness,” she remembers. “Dreads, headwraps and people who looked like me who I didn’t know existed. I felt like I belonged there. I met people who felt the way I felt, and that’s when I knew I wasn’t alone in my journey or quest to find out, ‘Who am I?’ ”

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To answer that question, Badu would need to enlist her own spirit guides both within and outside of the music industry. One of the most memorable was a woman named Queen Afua, who became a mentor of sorts for young Badu. In addition to helping Badu with her holistic journey, Afua “became my family away from Dallas. She communicated with me like a mother.” But to keep her profile as low as possible, Badu didn’t tell Afua why she was in the Big Apple: “I didn’t tell anyone in New York anything. I just wanted to live.” And so, she lived. When she wasn’t kicking it in Fort Greene, Badu was taking classes at Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater taught by dance legend Joan Peters. She took a Kemetic language course, because why not? “A lot of things were happening, and they all became a part of who I am,” Badu says. “You know, as Erica in America.”

Badu constantly told herself to be as “regular as possible,” because she knew the album she was trudging to Battery Studios in Midtown Manhattan to work on with a group of musicians who would go on to become legends in their own right — people like James Poyser and Questlove from Philadelphia’s The Roots — was going “to take this motherf–ker by storm.”

Jai Lennard

The album, Baduizm, did just that. It debuted at No. 2 on the Billboard 200 and ruled the Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums chart. Buoyed by the meditative smash hit “On & On,” Baduizm helped usher in what became known as neo-soul: a type of R&B that built on the traditions and stylings of the past while breathing new life and energy into the genre. While most neo-soul tracks sampled or interpolated older soul songs, “On & On,” with its rolling bass and booming drums, was wholly original. It felt like a completely fresh idea (and Badu was full of them) but also something familiar and comfortable ­— the delicate balance most artists work their entire lives trying to strike.

“[I’d] never seen someone just full of a bunch of ideas,” Questlove recounted in a 2024 interview with Poyser. “She had a lot of choruses ready. She was the first person I met that instantly had a clever chorus ready in the stash.” For the album’s third single, “Other Side of the Game,” the Roots drummer recalled that Badu came in with the idea to rework the famous chorus to Inner Circle’s “Bad Boys Reply.” Even more impressive, he remembered, was that the version of the song that made it onto the album was essentially the first take that was committed to tape: “I thought, ‘Oh, this girl is going to make it.’ ”

Dressed in an oversize sweatshirt and sweatpants with a warm-looking knitted cap, today Badu comes across every bit as enchanting as she’s made out to be. Sitting in the back room of South Dallas’ Furndware Studios, she speaks with a calm directness that you would expect from a shaman or elementary school teacher. Every question elicits a thoughtful pause and an even more thoughtful answer. When I ask Badu about making versus performing music, for example, she goes into a deep rumination about the focus needed to create great music. “I want to focus, I want to be in the moment of the foreplay. Creating the music. The tragedy. The love. The experience of the whole thing,” she says before exhaling. “Then I go somewhere else after this is done. This is a movie and the studio audience is cracking up and crying and s–t… I hope that answers that question.”

Badu makes you feel as if you’re the most important person in the world when she’s speaking to you. It’s a skill many successful people have, but few can also make you feel like the luckiest — as if she’s letting you, and only you, in on a cosmic secret. That may owe in part to the spiritual tangents she sometimes goes on when answering questions. Or it may simply be the attentiveness she offers in conversation. She says she has learned that the way to become successful — and to maintain that success — is to be healthy, present and aware, and to never stop learning.

Born Erica Abi White in Dallas, Badu didn’t always aspire to “make it.” She simply wanted to create art like most of her family had done. She grew up with her grandmother, mother and uncles, in what she describes as “a house of music lovers and collectors.” There was music in every room — literally. “There were records from wall to wall, a radio in the bathroom that was on the local FM soul station,” she recalls. Everyone was allowed to have their own corner to express their musical tastes. “My uncles would be in the back listening to funk. They were into Bootsy [Collins] and George Duke and Stanley Clarke. My mother was more into the sirens — the Chaka Khans, the Phoebe Snows, the Deniece Williamses, The Emotions. My uncle, who’s a rebel, was into Prince and Pink Floyd and Three Dog Night,” she says. “I had a variety to pull from.”

Erykah Badu photographed on February 7, 2025 at Mars Hill Farm in Ferris, Texas.

Jai Lennard

Badu immersed herself in everything artistic Dallas had to offer a young person. When she was in elementary school, she began taking classes at the Dallas Theater Center, as well as the Martin Luther King Jr. Community Center, where she would sing and dance and perform in plays. Badu and her younger sister, Koko, also frequented The Black Academy of Arts and Letters, where her mother and godmother volunteered. TBAAL’s founder, Curtis King, recalls seeing the “it thing” in Badu from an early age.

Badu went to Louisiana’s Grambling State University to study theater but left in 1993 and returned to Dallas before she graduated. She planned to pursue music full time — but since dreams don’t come true overnight, Badu found herself working a series of odd jobs to support herself while she worked with her cousin Robert “Free” Bradford to record her demo, Country Cousins. The two would perform around Dallas as a duo — she would sing and he would rap. But even with the 19-song project, Badu couldn’t pay a label to take her on. She says she auditioned for everyone — Sony, Priority, Bad Boy, So So Def — but didn’t catch a break until D’Angelo’s then-manager, Kedar Massenburg, saw her perform at South by Southwest and received her demo. He immediately signed her to his fledging imprint, Kedar Entertainment.

“As soon as I heard ‘On & On,’ I knew that I had to get involved,” Massenburg told Billboard in 2017. “The thing that struck me immediately was the beginning, because Erykah had used a beat in the intro that Daddy-O, a member of a group I managed called Stetsasonic, had created: Audio Two’s ‘Top Billin.’ ”

Country Cousins was the foundation of what became Baduizm, and Badu’s debut cemented not only her career but also the neo-soul scene that had been developing. “I think Tony! Toni! Toné! kind of opened the door, D’Angelo took it to the next level in terms of edginess, and Erykah solidified it,” Massenburg said. “That’s what Baduizm did. You’re saying, ‘I don’t need to wear these kinds of clothes or look this kind of way, this is my “-izm.” ’ The only thing that dates it is the term ‘neo-soul’ — maybe that’s the issue. It places it at a time when that term meant a certain thing. Take away the term, and it stands with the best of the artists that are out here today.”

Jai Lennard

You would think, with the impact she has had on R&B and hip-hop, that Badu would have dropped more than five albums over her 28-year career. But nope — just five studio sets, a live album and a mixtape. Granted, they’re all classics and helped either introduce a new sound or popularize a new style of working. Take 2008’s New Amerykah Part One (4th World War), which was recorded mainly on laptops with Apple’s GarageBand software, with Badu emailing sessions and files back and forth with producers. At the time, it was a pretty novel idea to forego the studio for your bedroom — only new, cash-strapped artists were doing that. Badu helped bring the practice to the mainstream — just one of many examples of her being aware of the winds of change before most of her peers.

That same awareness inspired her to launch her label, Control Freq, in 2005. At the time, Badu said it was her attempt at making a “profitable home for artists, with fair contracts that will return ownership of the music to the artists after a period of time.” The first artist signed to the label was Jay Electronica, the father of Badu’s third child. “I didn’t develop him at all. I just wanted to be near his greatness,” Badu says. “He needed to be heard and I had a platform. I wasn’t interested in building an artist from scratch. I was interested in artists who were building their own platforms.”

When it comes to her own music, Badu is less interested in what she puts on wax than in what she puts forth onstage. “I tour eight months out of the year for the past 25 years,” she says emphatically. “That’s what I do. I am a performance artist. I am not a recording artist. I come from the theater. It’s the immediate reaction between you and the audience and the immediate feeling. The point where you become one living, breathing organism with people. That’s what I live for. It’s my therapy. And theirs, too. We’re in it together. And I like the idea that it happens only once.”

Unlike most performance artists, however, Badu doesn’t create her music with the live aspect in mind. Once she decides to perform a song, she begins to re-create it for the stage. “It’s like, ‘OK, now this is one arena. Now, what are you going to do with it in here?’ ” (One of her most popular songs, “Tyrone,” was only ever released as a live rendition, on her 1997 Live album.) The results speak for themselves. Badu — this year’s Women in Music Icon — has emerged as one of the premier performers of her generation.

In 2015, while on an apparent hiatus, Badu released a remix of Drake’s gargantuan smash “Hotline Bling.” Produced by the Dallas-based Zach Witness — who first connected with Badu after she heard a remix he did of her 2000 song “Bag Lady” and reached out to him — “Cel U Lar Device” was posted to SoundCloud without much explanation.

The track became the lead single for her mixtape — and most recent project — 2015’s But You Caint Use My Phone (a nod to “Tyrone”), which she recorded in less than two weeks with Witness in his home studio. The tape centered on a theme of cellphone use and addiction, with Badu putting her spin on a few other popular phone-based songs like Usher’s “U Don’t Have To Call” and New Edition’s “Mr. Telephone Man.”

Since then, Badu has popped up here and there. She says she only collaborates with people whose music she really enjoys. Dram featured her on his debut album in 2016. She jumped on a track for Teyana Taylor’s self-titled album in 2020. She lent her vocals to a Jamie xx song that came out in January. And at the 2025 Grammy Awards, she won the best melodic rap performance statue for a collaboration with Rapsody, “3:AM.” “It snuck up on me!” she says. “I remember collaborating with [producer] S1 and Rapsody and we had such a good time promoting the song and I just felt like it was all for her basically. She worked very hard to get to this place.”

Jai Lennard

She still loves rap, although she doesn’t follow it as much as she used to and now experiences a lot of it through her children: Seven, 28; Puma, 21; and Mars, 16. (She says they also have attempted to make music, which is not surprising considering their fathers are all rap legends: André 3000, The D.O.C. and Electronica, respectively.)

“[The thing I like about rap right now] is the same thing I liked about rap when I first met it,” she says. “Rap is the people. Hip-hop is the people. It’s the folks. It’s the tribe. I have the luxury of experiencing having children who I watch grow up and love and encourage very much, and I cannot separate them when I see artists who are that age coming up. That’s how they feel. They are continuing the tradition.”

Badu may say she’s not as tuned in as she used to be, but she’s clearly keeping tabs on what’s hot right now. She’s been hard at work on her first studio album in 15 years, which is being produced solely by The Alchemist, the hip-hop journeyman who has had a resurgence as of late thanks to his work with the Buffalo, N.Y.-based Griselda crew and artists like Larry June. Badu posted a teaser of the project on Instagram to an exuberant response from fans who’ve been damn near begging her to drop something new and show the generations of artists who’ve had her pinned to the center of their mood boards how it’s supposed to be done.

The album has been taking up most of her time; she says she can’t wait until she’s done. And whatever time that isn’t occupied by her family and nonmusical interests — such as her cannabis strain collaboration with brand Cookies called That Badu — goes toward keeping herself in the best mental, emotional and physical shape possible and making sure she’s set for the future. “When I was building my house, I was making sure that I was building ramps for when I was elderly and couldn’t walk by myself,” the now-54-year-old says. “When I do my workouts, I do workouts that are conducive for picking up groceries and grandchildren and things like that.”

That’s not to say she isn’t having fun. Another of her nonmusical hobbies is car collecting. Badu, whose grandmother bought her toy cars instead of dolls when she asked for the latter as gifts, lights up when asked to run down what’s currently in her collection: “I get happy when talking about it.” There’s a baby blue ’67 Lincoln Continental with suicide doors and a chandelier in the back (“Original interior, original white wall tires, original radio”); a 1989 Land Rover Defender; a 1971 Sting Ray Corvette (“Matte black, neon yellow stripe. It looks like the Batmobile”). A collector since she was 21 years old, her first car was a 1965 convertible Super Beetle. “Before I was Erykah Badu the artist, that was my hobby that I loved.” Her uncle Mike, the one who was into funk music, is also into cars and keeps and maintains some of hers; the rest are tucked away in a Dallas garage.

It all sounds surprisingly normal for a music superstar of Badu’s stature, and that’s just what she likes about it. And it’s the same reason why, after all her success, she has remained in South Dallas. “It was very hard for me to be away because this is where I want to be,” she says. “I wanted to come here and build. This is where everybody is. I’m five generations in Dallas. This is my place. It’s my home.”

This story appears in the March 22, 2025, issue of Billboard.

On the evening of July 23, 2024, the last night of her global tour and her fourth sold-out date at Santiago Bernabéu Stadium in Madrid, a visibly emotional Karol G told the crowd of 55,000: “I’m going to say that truly, tonight will be the most amazing of my life.”

It was, at the very least, a grand finale to the highest-grossing tour ever by a Latin female artist, grossing $313.3 million across 56 concerts, according to Billboard Boxscore. Karol G’s Madrid shows were also record-setting, selling 220,000 tickets and making her the first artist to sell out four shows at the stadium, which finished renovations earlier in 2024.

The fact that a Latin American artist could move so many tickets in a major European city underscores Spain’s growing importance as not just a bridge for Latin music between the Americas and Europe but also a place for music in Spanish — the new global pop — to grow.

In 2023, Spanish promoters and venues reported gross ticket sales of nearly 579 million euros ($604.5 million) to Spain’s Association of Music Promoters, an extraordinary 26.5% increase from revenue of 459 million euros ($479 million) in 2022. While Karol G, Luis Miguel and Taylor Swift brought stadium headlining tours to the country, according to its ministry of culture, Spanish talent is also robustly represented at the stadium level with recent shows from Manuel Carrasco and Dellafuente.

Numbers from the country’s ministry of culture, compiled by the legal and business management firm Sympathy for the Lawyer, show that 40.5% of concertgoers in 2024 attended shows of Spanish pop/rock, followed by 11.1% who went to see canción de autor (similar to singer-songwriter performances).

Meanwhile, beyond the live scene, Spain’s music consumption has grown exponentially.

According to year-end numbers reported by Promusicae, Spain’s music industry trade group, there were 98.5 billion audio streams across all platforms in 2024, compared with 87 billion the previous year. More than 1,180 artists notched over 10 million streams and 70 had more than 100 million streams.

That report of growth aligns with figures from global music industry trade association IFPI. In its Engaging With Music report, IFPI stated that Spanish music consumers averaged 22.1 hours per week of listening, compared with the global average of 20.7.

Spain’s receptiveness to music of all genres and provenance is evident in its five top-selling albums of 2024. According to Promusicae, Swift’s The Tortured Poets Department was the bestseller, followed by Karol G’s Mañana Será Bonito at No. 2, Spanish artists Quevedo’s Donde Quiero Estar at No. 3 and Saiko’s Sakura at No. 4 and Bad Bunny’s 2022 album, Un Verano Sin Ti, at No. 5.

Quevedo at the 2024 Latin Grammy Awards in Miami.

Jason Koerner/Getty Images

No wonder labels are increasingly turning to Spain to develop pan-regional artists. Examples include the success of Colombian artist Camilo after the pandemic; Venezuela’s Joaquina, who won best new artist at the 2023 Latin Grammy Awards and whose first tours were in Spain; and Colombian stadium pop-rock band Morat, which is signed to Universal Music Spain.

And although Spanish-born artists have a tougher time crossing over into the U.S. and Latin American markets than vice versa, a new generation of acts that includes Quevedo, Rels B, Bad Gyal, Aitana, Arde Bogotá and Rosalía is showing that reaching fans in the Americas may be more feasible than ever.

Fifteen months after the Latin Grammys were held in Spain in November 2023 — the show’s first foray outside the United States — Billboard will host a reception for Spain’s industry leaders on March 18 and recently spoke with some of those executives to ask what’s next for the dynamic market.

‘A Flow Of Cultures In Two Directions’

Given its crucial location as an entryway into Europe and its cultural significance as the birthplace of Spanish, “Spain is a place of fusion between Anglo and Hispanic cultures. It’s a flow of talent and culture in two directions,” says Vicent Argudo, head of music for Prisa Media. “Spain imports Latin styles into the old continent and adapts them to pop. It’s a place for mainstream experimentation.” While Spain for years seemed impenetrable for Latin American genres like reggaetón and regional Mexican, an influx of immigrants, coupled with increasing global acceptance of the Spanish language, has turned Spain into a market that imports and reinvents genres. “Spain gives Latin sounds a pop vision that makes them more accessible to the world,” Argudo says.

A Breeding Ground For International Talent

For José María Barbat, president of Sony Music Iberian Peninsula, Spain is a nonstop talent generator, from Julio Iglesias in the ’80s to Rosalía or C. Tangana today.

“In this context, we’re certain the next big Spanish star is around the corner,” Barbat says. “We continue to see artists with the skills necessary to jump to an international stage, showing there’s not only talent but also an industry ecosystem ready to channel all that creativity.” Proof of that is Arde Bogotá, a Spanish rock band garnering success in an urban world. “It speaks to the importance of keeping an eye out not just for popular genres,” he says, “but for talent coming out of niche genres.”

Artist To Watch: “I’m particularly excited about Lia Kali, a very well-rounded and very young artist we just signed,” Barbat says. “She has a mind-­blowing voice and the ability to cross over in a big way into other Latin markets.”

Rosalía at the 2024 Met Gala in New York.

Mike Coppola/MG24/Getty Images

The Power Of A Cutting-Edge Stadium

The Spanish music industry is experiencing a golden era, a prime example of which, says Live Nation Spain president Pino Sagliocco, is the newly renovated Santiago Bernabéu Stadium and the sold-out shows it has hosted from Spanish artists Hombres G and Alejandro Sanz, as well as Swift and Colombia’s Karol G. “Those tours highlight unprecedented growth in Spain’s music history, breaking records in the years after the pandemic,” Sagliocco says. “The global industry now recognizes the country’s leadership and enormous potential as a key platform for the growth of Latin music in Europe.” While concerts at Bernabéu were suspended last September due to noise ordinance issues, its string of sold-out shows by artists both local and international highlighted the enormous, previously untapped potential of a state-of-the-art stadium in the nation’s touristy capital. “The global industry now recognizes the country’s leadership and enormous potential as a key platform for the growth of Latin music in Europe,” Sagliocco says.

Spanish As The ‘New Normal’

For José Luis Sevillano, CEO of AIE — Spain’s collecting society for performers, with over 35,000 members in Spain alone and representing the rights of over 800,000 performers globally — music in Spanish is on the brink of “becoming a magnificent new normal.” Not only does music in Spanish now top global charts, “but at the same time it’s placed new value on the diversity and plurality of our culture in the entire world,” he says. AIE’s most recently reported numbers registered a 29% growth in rights collection last year compared with 2023, and AIE’s study on consumption habits in Spain also found that Spanish-­language music was more listened to than English-­language music on streaming platforms. Plus, after 30 years of work, Spain adopted new legislation providing better compensation and working conditions for artists and musicians. “This will eventually lead to a more just and balanced music ecosystem,” Sevillano says, “which is basic in allowing creators to develop their talent to its full potential.”

Challenge For 2025: “Finding a responsible, respectful and balanced development of [artificial intelligence] for artists,” Sevillano says.

A Streaming Boom

Streaming dominates Spanish music consumption, accounting for nearly 90% of the market, according to Promusicae. Meanwhile, Spanish artists have become major streaming draws worldwide. In 2023, Spanish acts generated royalties of more than 123 million euros ($128.5 million) on Spotify, which is almost four times the royalties they generated on the platform in 2017, according to Spotify’s head of music for Southern and Eastern Europe, Melanie Parejo. That growth “is reflected in local consumption but also in the capacity to generate global business,” Parejo says, noting that over 50% of all royalties generated by Spanish artists on Spotify in 2023 came from listeners outside of Spain. In 2024, Rels B was the Spanish artist most listened to outside of Spain.

Rels B attended Milan Fashion Week in 2024.

Pietro S. D’Aprano/Getty Images

An ‘Explosion’ Of Talent

What was once an insular market is now having an international impact. “The Spanish music industry has undergone a radical transformation in the last decade, becoming a market with great global projection with artists like Rosalía, C. Tangana, Quevedo and an explosion of indie proposals like La La Love You,” says Carlos Galán, host of industry podcast Simpatía por la Industria. “Stylistic barriers have been broken, and even the chasm that existed between alternative and mainstream has grown smaller.”

Challenge For 2025: The fact that “every day there’s a new festival” is huge, Galán says. “But truly, it’s a bubble I’m afraid to see burst. All have identical lineups, little innovation and no one is betting on emerging talent.”

Sponsors Serious About Music

Few brand initiatives surrounding music are as complex and developed as Banco Santander’s Santander SMusic. The bank offers a 360 media platform that includes editorial content and live performances, in addition to its branded events, concerts and partnerships with labels and artists. “In a year we’ve executed over 235 presales and sold 600,000 tickets, becoming a point of reference for music in Spain and creating a complete ecosystem of exclusive content,” says Felipe Martín Martín, Santander España’s director of media, sponsorships and events. Santander’s SMusic has partnerships with festivals including Mad Cool, Sonorama and Rockland, as well as with companies like Universal, Sony and Los 40. But Martín Martín is especially excited about the growth of music tourism in Spain, “maximizing that No. 1 spot Spain has held in the global ranking of tourism to music festivals since 2022.”

An International Gateway

Spain’s geography offers easy access from both the United States and Latin America and to the rest of Europe. “It has the potential [to be a] port of entry for Latin artists to other European markets, particularly the U.K., France, Italy and Germany, who all provide strategic opportunities in the live market,” says Narcis Rebollo, president/CEO of Universal’s Global Talent Service, which manages and books over 100 artists including Aitana, Pablo Alborán, David Bisbal, Lola Índigo and Joaquina. The potential is already being realized in Spain, where ticket sales jumped more than 26% from 2022 to 2023 and more than 250% in the last decade, according to Spain’s Association of Music Promoters.

Growing Trend: “Brand investment in music has grown more than 100%,” Rebollo says, “with music being used as a new driver for brands to position their products.”

Aitana performed at the 2024 Morrina Festival at Port of A Coruna in A Coruna, Spain.

Cristina Andina/Redferns

A Good Partner

Spain’s impressive market stats, including its sizable listening and streaming growth per capita, make it a source of local talent and a priority for imported talent. “We’re listening to more than 260 million songs per day,” Warner Music Iberia president Guillermo González Arévalo says. “Coming to Spain to promote their new albums has had a great return on investment and recognition for artists like Dua Lipa, Myke Towers, Coldplay, Charli xcx and Linkin Park, who have charted high on our charts paving the way for their next tours.” In 2024, Towers was the most listened to artist on Spotify in Spain.

Looking Forward: Warner is also expanding activity in its recently opened music hub in Madrid. “Each day more music is written, and there are more collaborations created with Latin artists,” González Arévalo says.

A Flexible Market In Constant Evolution

Spain’s music market is known today for its strong festival culture and its affinity for music in Spanish, regardless of origin — and it has been receptive to new trends of late. In November 2023, the popular reality music competition Operación Triunfo relaunched on Amazon Prime Video. “It highlighted the extraordinary capacity of the format to adapt to new digital consumption trends, bringing in traditional viewers and new generations,” head of Amazon Music Spain Claire Imoucha says of the show, which will return in September. Christmas music also got a boost in new formats, with artists like David Bisbal, Niña Pastori, and Camilo and Evaluna (who had an Amazon Music Original song in November) reimagining traditional repertoire and “consolidating Christmas as a key consumption period.”

What Comes Next: “Spanish music is living an extraordinary moment, with genres like rock and flamenco displaying their capacity for evolution and renovation,” Imoucha says. “Artists like Arde Bogotá and Carolina Durante are leaders in a new rock scene, and artists like Israel Fernandez, María José Llergo and Ángeles Toledano are bringing a contemporary twist to historic genres.”

Antonio Garcia (left) and Pepe Esteban of Arde Bogotá onstage at the Coca Cola Music Experience Festival in Madrid in 2024.

Juan Naharro Gimenez/Redferns

A Consolidated Value Chain

“Our music industry is a very professionalized industry in every sector of its value chain,” Promusicae president Antonio Guisasola says. “In addition, we have great artistic talent that is mixing genres and renovating the different roots genres of the many cultures that coexist in Spain.” A sign of maturity of the market was the launch of its Spanish Academy of Music, “where all music professionals in the country get together to honor the work we did in the year,” Guisasola says, and the first Academy of Music Awards took place last June.

Beyond Major Cities

The growth of Spain’s music scene has translated to consumption outside major cities, says Alfonso Santiago, CEO of concert promoter Last Tour, which also puts together the annual BIME conferences in Bilbao, Spain, and Bogotá, Colombia. “There’s a wide spectrum of cities beyond the big capitals that have good venues and audiences that respond favorably,” he says. That openness is particularly evident and growing among younger generations. “Traditionally, adult fans have been more close-minded,” he says. “I’m excited to see a young audience open to discovering new things.”

A Rich Culture

Spain’s location has helped foster its rich musical output. “We have a confluence of music from Latin America, Northern Africa, local folklore and, of course, our great contribution to the world’s art, flamenco,” Sony Music Spain GM Blanca Salcedo says. Sony’s new 5020 Studios have become a perfect place to mine that cultural landscape. The studios, which opened a year ago, “are hugely valuable for this purpose,” Salcedo says. “It’s a unique space that combines the best technology, design and services to foster our artists’ creativity.”

A Festival Destination; Many Collaborations

In addition to its massive stadium concerts, Spain hosts nearly 900 music festivals a year, according to the latest Oh, Holy Festivals report. “Spain has established itself as a key market for tours and festivals, positioning itself as a global tourism destination for music,” says Jorge Iglesias, founder and CEO of concert promoter Iglesias Entertainment. In addition, a series of very successful cross-cultural collaborations — including Quevedo and Bizarrap’s “Bzrp Music Sessions, Vol. 52,” which topped Billboard’s Global 200 and Global Excl. U.S. charts in 2022 — has renewed interest in the country as a talent incubator.

A Prominent Indie Scene

The diversity of genres in Spain “is richer than ever,” says Believe Spain GM Maite Díez, adding, “The local independent scene has gained great prominence.” Case in point: Indie artist Iñigo Quintero, whose hit “Si No Estás” made history as the first track by a solo Spanish artist to reach No. 1 on Spotify’s global chart. On Spotify, nearly 60% of all royalties generated by Spanish artists come from indie labels or artists, Díez says. By extension, there has been “an explosion of new talent that has gone from the digital ecosystem to massive success,” including Daniela Blasco, a finalist at the Benidorm Fest song contest.

A Mature Industry

Beyond streaming strength, “Spain’s music industry is mature in all its subsectors,” says Soco Collado, president of Spain’s music federation Es Música, which represents and promotes the industry’s collective interests. “We have huge established artists, a young scene creating spectacular things and the companies working at every level are very solid and are investing,” she says. The sustained growth of streaming stands out for Collado, and she’s particularly excited about a new generation of very young female artists who are “super committed and creating musical marvels,” including flamenco artists María José Llergo, Angeles Toledano and La Tania.

New Opportunities

Universal Music Spain co-managing director Alicia Arauzo was struck by the recent success of David Bisbal’s Todo Es Posible en Navidad, which topped Promusicae’s albums chart in December. “It feels like we tapped a local vein with Christmas music, opening up an eternal opportunity [for the music],” she says. The proliferation of stadium concerts has also been a breakthrough for Spain, she says, along with “the growing strength of female talent, both local and international.”

This story appears in the March 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.

At the first official Academy of Country Music Awards show in 1966 — held in Los Angeles and hosted by Bonanza actor Lorne Greene — Buck Owens took home top male vocalist, Bonnie Guitar won top female vocalist, and a young upstart named Merle Haggard snagged new male vocalist.
Two years prior, artist Tommy Wiggins, songwriter Eddie Miller and Red Barrel Niteclub owners (and married couple) Mickey and Chris Christensen had formed the ACM, then called the Country and Western Music Academy, to represent country music in the Western states, counterbalancing the Nashville-based Country Music Association, which launched in 1958.

Since then, the ACM has celebrated and advocated for the growth of country music, both domestically and abroad. In 2022, it moved its ­headquarters to Nashville, and the ­academy now boasts a membership of over 5,000 globally.

Trending on Billboard

On May 8, the ACM will host the 60th edition of its awards show at Ford Center at the Star in Frisco, Texas. ACM CEO Damon Whiteside says the ceremony — which became the first major awards show to exclusively stream live for a global audience on Amazon Prime in 2022 — will celebrate the year’s top artists while also honoring past winners and award-show milestones. Those landmarks include Marty Robbins taking home the first artist of the decade award in 1969, Loretta Lynn becoming the first woman to win entertainer of the year in 1976, Garth Brooks snagging six awards in one night in 1991 (a feat since replicated by Faith Hill and Chris Stapleton) and Miranda Lambert leading all winners with 37 career trophies.

Loretta Lynn onstage in 1973.

Courtesy of ACM

During the Frisco festivities, the academy will also highlight the important work of Lifting Lives, the ACM’s philanthropic partner that provides financial, disaster, mental and other aid to the country music community.

“We’re looking at developing a show that’s going to feel current because we obviously need to honor the current nominees,” Whiteside says, “but there’s also a real desire for us to showcase the legacy of the show because it’s always charted its own course. We want to showcase what differentiates us.

“It’s a little bit of a past/present/future approach,” Whiteside adds. “It’s going to be a really iconic night and a great way to look back and look forward and celebrate where we are right now as an industry.”

From left: Jordan Davis, ACM CEO Whiteside and Carly Pearce at the ACM Honors in 2024.

Terry Wyatt/Getty Images for ACM

You moved the ACM’s headquarters to Nashville from Los Angeles in December 2022. How do you differentiate yourself from the Country Music Association, and how have you upheld the original mandate of representing Western states?

We really grappled with whether we should make the move when I came into the job [in 2020]. That was definitely one of my first orders of business, coming in, that the board asked me to do some research on. Over a few months, I looked at the pros and cons [of the Nashville move], what it meant from a historical perspective, a strategic perspective and a financial perspective in moving all of our operations and our staff and knowing we probably would lose staff by moving.

COVID then hit within that process, and we were out of the office for about two years. During that time, it became more and more apparent that it made sense to be in Nashville because probably over 90% of our constituents are in the Nashville market, from our board of directors to all of our industry members and artists.

What about the organization’s original mission?

When we started back in the ’60s, there was no support for artists on the West Coast — they were shunned, basically, by Nashville, and there was no one looking out for them or for their interests. Also, there wasn’t really a bridge between the studios and television and country music. That’s really why we were formed in the first place, to create that bridge. But over time there’s been less need to be in that role because, thankfully, country is ubiquitous now. It just made sense for us to move here strategically.

From left: June Carter Cash, Johnny Cash, Marie Osmond and Robert Duvall in 1991 when Cash received the ACM Pioneer Award.

Courtesy of ACM

How did you decide where in town to relocate?

We did not even consider Music Row as a place to move — it just didn’t feel authentic for us. Nor did we want to encroach on traditional Music Row. Wedgewood Houston offered us an opportunity to be in an emerging area of town that’s still very convenient, and there’s a lot of music companies opening here. Our positioning is that we are the renegade organization, so we should be somewhere a little more gritty and edgy. That’s ultimately why we landed where we landed.

The ACM Awards’ previous slogan was “Country Music’s Party of the Year.” How have you moved away from that?

That was our tagline and position for many, many years. Especially being in Las Vegas [where the ACMs were held annually from 2003 to 2019, except for 2015], it made a lot of sense. During COVID, when we [presented] our first show in Nashville in September 2020, we did it at three venues [Grand Ole Opry House, Ryman Auditorium and The Bluebird Cafe], and we named that night “A Special Night of Heart and Hits.” That really changed the tone and the vibe of the show.

We carried that over the following year. And then when we went back to Vegas [at Allegiant Stadium in 2022], we sort of brought back the party of the year, but with being on a new platform with Amazon, they had a lot of feelings about how we could reposition ourselves.

And then, moving back to Texas in 2023 following the [awards’] 50th anniversary being there [in 2015], the feeling was we just have other sorts of stories to tell around what the show is beyond being a party. “Party” sells it a little short.

Toby Keith played “Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue (The Angry American)” at the 2002 ACM Awards, in the wake of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Courtesy of ACM

What comes after the 60th ­anniversary?

For 2026, we may do a major pivot again and define what’s the future of the ­academy. This year is a very special year, but next year is going to be kind of turning the page. It’ll be a fresh new year. We don’t know yet where we’ll be. We don’t know what [outlet] we’re going to be on. Everything’s a new day in 2026, so it’s going to be the evolution of the ACM Awards, but we’re excited about that because it’s a blank slate.

The show is co-owned by Dick Clark Productions. [DCP is owned by Penske Media Eldridge, a joint venture between Eldridge Industries and Billboard parent company Penske Media.] What is the key to your working relationship?

The relationship started in 1979, which is pretty incredible to think about. Dick Clark hosted many times and then came on as executive producer in ’79, and shortly after that his son [R.A. “RAC” Clark] got involved. He was with us for all those decades as well, and now we have Raj Kapoor [as showrunner]. It’s been a really great partnership. Both sides bring so much to the table.

We consider ourselves the country music experts, and we’re the ones running the award side of it, making sure our members and industry are engaged. We lean in for a lot of the talent asks and make sure our brand and the industry are being represented properly. Dick Clark Productions provides all the production resources and really puts the show together from a television/streaming perspective. We both have an equal seat at the table.

Garth Brooks swept the ACM Awards in 1991.

Courtesy of ACM

In 2022, you became the first major awards show to move to a streaming platform when you debuted on Prime Video. What did you learn from that first year?

That’s probably one of my top moments in my five years. The first year going into it, none of us had any idea what we were doing in terms of what the impact would be on the show. How do you suddenly produce a live show with no commercial breaks? Typically, you’re using those breaks to make set changes.

But what we found was it actually improved the process of booking the show, planning the show and the show experience itself. Because it was such a quick two hours, top to bottom, it forced everyone to be even more on their toes in terms of the show’s pace and, because of it being jam-packed with music, it felt like a true music concert. I think what we’ve carried forward is keeping the show really tight. There’s no time to get bored because you’re constantly moving.

The challenge of streaming is that they do not report viewership. The music industry wants to know how many people are watching. I don’t know the numbers. [But] if you’re feeling the bump, then does it matter how many people are watching?

We do have a sense that we’re on par with where we’ve traditionally been with the show, if not more than that. Plus, we’re global. We’re in over 230 countries and territories, live and on demand. Now we’re getting a much larger international reach.

How much does the show’s status as a ­global event influence picking a host? It was Dolly Parton for two years — once with Garth Brooks — and now it’s Reba McEntire, who hosted or co-­hosted 12 times between 2002 and 2019.

Dolly Parton’s a global superstar. In any market around the world, if you saw your Prime Video home screen with Dolly, you’re probably going to be interested. Reba is very similar. She’s a legend as well. This is her 18th time hosting [or co-­hosting]. The other part is both of them are multigenerational. They’re relevant now. The multigeneration piece is big because it brings in all audiences.

Reba came to us prior to last year and really wanted to be part of the 60th-anniversary legacy of this show because she feels very connected to it, and she’s had a huge impact on what this show is. That’s when we signed her to a two-year deal to [host in 2024 and 2025].

Taylor Swift at the ACM All-Star Jam in 2009.

Courtesy of ACM

We are seeing more labels in New York and Los Angeles sign country acts, while artists including Post Malone, Beyoncé and Ringo Starr are incorporating elements of country into their music. How does the ACM embrace that, in terms of the awards show and the organization?

We haven’t addressed it yet. We have had a lot of conversations with our board about it, and everyone is in agreement that we need to figure it out. But we need to do it in the right way and not make a rush move, because we want to make sure we’re protecting the integrity of the vote and that the members spend a majority of their time in country music versus a one-off project.

Long term, we’ll likely figure out a way to allow those “coastal labels” in as long as they meet the criteria that those individuals spend a majority of their time in country music. We will find a way to incorporate them into our membership and then [they will] be able to vote.

What is something from the past 60 years that you consider sacred and don’t ever want to change about the awards show?

Our DNA of this show has always been — and always will be — that we’re a little out of the box. We’re a little left of center. In the ’60s, we had all the television celebrities hosting and we’ve really held on to that. We’ve always had a lot of film and TV talent involved in the show, so that carries through.

We’ve held on to the fact that we really maximize the out-of-genre opportunities by having out-of-genre artists collaborating. Our DNA is that we take risks. We’re progressive. We’ve [leaned] very forward in diversity the past several years ­especially, and we’ll continue to do that. While the artists change over the years, our identity and the DNA of the show has remained consistent. We want the show to be fun and the fans to have a great time and let loose.

The Chicks on the shoot for their video for the 1999 ACM Awards.

Courtesy of ACM

ACM Winners’ Favorite Award Show Moments

Artists and executives look back on the Academy of Country Music’s brightest nights.

Bill Anderson, two-time ACM Award winner: “The academy first began recognizing songwriters in 2007 with the advent of their Poet’s Award, and they gave me their very first one. It’s always cool to be the first at anything, and when you look at the names of some who have followed it makes it even more special: Merle Haggard, Don Schlitz, Cindy Walker, Kris Kristofferson, Willie Nelson and more. I had come to Nashville 50 years earlier with dreams of being a songwriter. Nothing could be more special than having those dreams come true… and the ACM Poet’s Award to confirm it.”

Miranda Lambert, 37-time ACM Award winner: “It’s an honor to get any award and be recognized by my peers, but getting the album of the year award is always extra special. [Lambert won the honor five times between 2008 and 2017.] Country music is about storytelling, and knowing that people took the time to listen to an album top to bottom — and love it — means a lot to me.”

Shane McAnally, two-time ACM songwriter of the year winner: “It feels very special that the ACM honors songwriters with their own category. We are usually the ones behind the scenes, but it’s always a privilege to be recognized amongst your peers. Nashville was built on great songwriting, and this community is so special. Being named ACM songwriter of the year [in 2014 and 2019] will always be a highlight of my career.”

Jo Dee Messina, ACM Award winner: “I cherish my win of the [top new female vocalist] of the year award [in 1999]. It was a moment I got to share with my mother, who was present to witness the payoff of a lifetime of support and dedication to my dreams. The ACMs’ production crew is one of a kind. They are a family that has always gone above and beyond to be sure I was taken care of with performances, presentations, nominations and anything I needed to be a part of the televised programs.”

Tigirlily Gold, ACM Award winner: “Our favorite memory is when we got to perform our song ‘I Tried a Ring On’ after winning our very first ACM Award, for new duo/group of the year, in 2024. Jelly Roll gave us a pep talk right before we went out to play, and our musical heroes Little Big Town introduced us. We will never forget that truly surreal moment! The ACMs have a magical way of making dreams come true for artists like us.”

Shania Twain, four-time ACM Award winner: “My favorite moments are always meeting people backstage, other artists that I don’t get to meet. At the beginning of my career, I lived in Nashville and I was seeing more of the country music industry around just in general. But my career has taken me so internationally that I rarely run into country artists. The ACMs are one of the only places that happens.”

Carrie Underwood, 16-time ACM Award winner: “I’m extremely honored to be the first woman to have won ACM entertainer of the year twice and the only female ever to win that award three times [in 2009, 2010 and 2020]. We had some fun celebrating those! We don’t do what we do for praise or trophies, but it means a lot to be recognized for your hard work, and none of it would be possible without all the loyal fans.”

Additional reporting by Jessica Nicholson.

This story appears in the March 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.

For my own music, I really like to have endless possibilities,” Spiritbox leader Courtney LaPlante says. The singer believes the metal world is too preoccupied with subgenres — helpful for listeners looking for distinct flavors of heavy music but constricting for acts that want to scribble outside their assigned hard rock lines.
LaPlante says other genres aren’t quite as strict: “Look at the first few records that Doechii made and then look at the next three — there are a lot of polar opposites,” she says. “I feel like there’s a drive for artists for each album or body of work to be its own thing.”

Although Spiritbox trades in modern metalcore, the Canadian quartet has become one of the biggest new hard rock acts of the decade by reaching beyond its sonic boundaries: On its 2021 debut, Eternal Blue, which has earned 230,000 equivalent album units, according to Luminate, the band supplemented bone-crunching riffs with hints of synth-pop, prog rock and R&B. The 36-year-old LaPlante, who’s adept at guttural screaming as well as soulful crooning, drives that diverse palette.

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“She’s an encyclopedia of music in general,” says Mike Stringer, Spiritbox’s guitarist and LaPlante’s husband, a few minutes before LaPlante gushes about the latest FKA twigs album and Kate Bush’s back catalog. “We’ve always had this open-door policy of, ‘If we enjoy it and it’s catchy, we’ll probably release it.’ ”

Tsunami Sea, the band’s long-awaited second album, does indeed feature some of its biggest hooks to date as well as some of the group’s most thrash-ready moments, often in the same song. Released March 7 on Pale Chord/Rise Records, the album arrives on a wave of hype, with two consecutive Grammy Award nods for best metal performance and all three of the album’s prerelease tracks — the blistering “Soft Spine,” melodic “Perfect Soul” and electro-tinged “No Loss, No Love” — cracking the top 20 of Hot Hard Rock Songs.

The act opened for bands like Korn, Shinedown and Papa Roach over the past two years but was also tapped by Megan Thee Stallion to remix her song “Cobra” in 2023. Most importantly, manager Jason Mageau says, “They’ve spent the past few years figuring out who they are.”

Courtney LaPlante of Spiritbox performs at Alexandra Palace on Feb. 13, 2025 in London.

Alex Bemis

Rising from the ashes of metal group Iwrestledabearonce in 2017, Spiritbox — whose lineup also includes bassist Josh Gilbert and drummer Zev Rosenberg — spent its first four years weathering personnel changes and gathering early singles for EP releases. While the 2020 singles “Blessed Be” and “Holy Roller” went viral online, the pandemic upended the rollout for Eternal Blue, including touring. “At that moment in time, they had played under 10 shows together,” Mageau says. “So we really took our time building that live show, taking some support opportunities and learning from them.”

Spiritbox released two more EPs, 2022’s Rotoscope and 2023’s The Fear of Fear, to tide over fans who were eager for new material as the band played hard rock tours and festivals. Tsunami Sea took roughly two years to write and complete during gaps in that touring schedule, with 30 song ideas whittled down to the most cohesive 11-track project the group could make.

“It was a very intense process near the end, but I think I had a lot more fun writing for this record than I did Eternal Blue,” Stringer says, “and I feel like it has more of an identity to it.” Because the album follows a more extensive touring history, Spiritbox finished the new songs with a better understanding of how they might translate onstage and more consideration of LaPlante’s live vocals. “We know ourselves musically, as we’re getting older and discovering more about what we can actually achieve,” she says. “For the first time now, when we write stuff, I feel confident. It [only] took 20 years.”

LaPlante

Alex Bemis

After performing some prerelease shows in Europe, Spiritbox will begin a spring global headlining tour on April 3 in Dallas and then join Linkin Park for select stadium shows in the summer. When asked about commercial goals for Tsunami Sea — considering that Eternal Blue peaked at No. 13 on the Billboard 200, its follow-up could become the band’s first 10 entry — Mageau shrugs off anything empirical.

“I really want them to just be themselves. They’ve been a support band for two years — let’s show them what we’re made of,” he says. “It’s been all about finding new areas to insert our band into mainstream conversations and try to bring more women into the space, too. When this band first started, the female listenership on Spotify would be, like, 10%. Now we’re in the 30% range of women listening to the band, and [LaPlante] wants that to increase even more.”

For her part, LaPlante says that being among the fast-rising women in metal is a galvanizing force for a band trying to turn its expanding audiences into safe spaces. “I love the fact that I see all different ages and genders at our shows and kids presenting in any way they want,” she says. “They’re not there because I’m a woman and they’re not there despite me being a woman. They all just heard our siren call and we found each other.”

This story appears in the March 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.

Music branding” does not involve stamping horses with band logos (at least not yet). But it does apply to just about anything else in which a commercial entity — from Taco Bell to JPMorganChase — partners with an artist or music company.
Which is why, at the beginning of last year’s Brat Summer, Charli xcx appeared as a 3D hologram activated by White Claw drinkers who aimed their phones at a product logo; why Nike spent in the low seven figures to license Led Zeppelin’s “Whole Lotta Love” for a Super Bowl LIX commercial; why Will Ferrell sang a PayPal jingle set to Fleetwood Mac’s “Everywhere”; and why Pinterest set up Coachella “manifest stations” filled with beauty products curated by singer Victoria Monét.

“It can be a tour sponsorship, a social media campaign, a tie-in with a brand’s philanthropic endeavor,” says Marcie Allen, president of MAC Consulting, who has been connecting artists with brands for 30 years and was one of 15 music industry experts who helped Billboard compile its first Branding Power Players list since 2019. “Brand partnerships are bigger than they have ever been because they give companies the ability to break through the noise.”

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There are no metrics that quantify the overall music-­branding market, because it’s so multifaceted — from the multimillion-dollar advertising synch business to singer-­songwriter RAYE performing intimate concerts at Hilton hotel rooms, footage of which appeared in commercials and social media posts. That said, a hint of its scale can be found in the financial filings of the industry’s largest concert promoter, Live Nation, whose worldwide sponsorship revenue has grown from $590.3 million in 2019 to $1.2 billion in 2024. (Advertising and sponsorship amounted to just over 5% of Live Nation’s total revenue last year.)

“We’re seeing brands spending more in music than ever before,” says Russell Wallach, the promoter’s global president of media and sponsorship. He adds that Live Nation research shows 80% of its customers are “interested” in participating with brands at live events. “What brands are doing from an experiential standpoint has been significantly elevated over the last few years.”

Post-pandemic, according to Allen, brands have returned aggressively to the live space — like T-Mobile sponsoring this summer’s Post Malone-Jelly Roll tour.

The synch business, too, has more than rebounded since the pandemic: Global revenue amounted to $400 million in 2020, mostly due to production shutdowns, but it hit $632 million in 2023, according to IFPI. That’s an increase of 58%, from 0.4% of global recording-industry revenue in 2020 to 2.2%. (These numbers don’t include publishing, but they do include film/TV synchs in addition to advertising.) For this year’s Super Bowl, licensed songs cost between $400,000 and $2.5 million on the publishing side alone, music industry sources say, not counting the separate fees for licensing master recordings. According to Brian Monaco, Sony Music Publishing’s president/global chief marketing officer, 50% of this year’s Super Bowl ads, which cost brands a reported $7 million to $8 million apiece, employed synchs.

In the streaming era, brands and music companies are more efficient than ever in using data to align artists’ fan bases with companies’ target demographics, says Rich Yaffa, Universal Music Group’s executive vp of global brands: “When we partner with a brand, our goal is to make fans of our artists fans of their brands.”

Stephanie Miles, Wasserman Music’s head of music brand partnerships, says brands recently have become more willing to work on elaborate activations with artists. One act she declines to name spent months negotiating a fashion shoot and a live event to ensure both artist and brand emphasized the same regional market. “The days of receiving an opportunity that has been completely conceptualized by a brand, and the artist taking it as is, are long gone,” she says.

“Deals are definitely becoming more complicated and sophisticated,” adds Andrew Klein, managing director of AEG’s global partnerships. “It used to be [when] Coca-Cola’s coming out with a new product, [it would] just hand out the can [at concerts] and do a sampling program. They’re now trying to get a lot more return on investment. Yes, they want to sponsor the tour, but they also want to use the music for that artist in a campaign, use [their] name and likeness or tap into their social media.”

Will the good times in music branding continue? It’s hard to say, given President Donald Trump’s unsettling of the economy with layoffs, deportations, tariffs and threats of tariffs in the first weeks of his administration. “We’re starting to see a bit of a spend slowdown,” says Toni Wallace, partner and head of music brand strategy and partnerships at UTA. “There’s no question the demand and opportunity is there; it’s just ‘Let’s see how this first quarter goes.’ ”

It wasn’t long ago that artists, fearing claims of “selling out,” avoided collaborations with major corporations: In the late ’80s, after Pepsi landed Michael Jackson, Madonna and David Bowie in commercials and Whitney Houston sang a Diet Coke jingle, Neil Young responded with the scathing “This Note’s for You”: “Ain’t singing for Pepsi/Ain’t singing for Coke/I don’t sing for nobody/Makes me look like a joke.”

But things have changed: In 1999, Sting refashioned his “Desert Rose” music video into a Jaguar commercial; Bob Dylan licensed “Love Sick” to a Victoria’s Secret spot in 2004; an instrumental portion of Vampire Weekend’s 2019 “Harmony Hall” — an upbeat-sounding tune that nevertheless is about antisemitism — was used in a Choice Hotels TV plug; and last year, Megan Thee Stallion’s colorful 2024 Amazon Music ad included the original track “It’s Prime Day.”

“You had rockers who never wanted to be seen associated with anything: ‘It’s too commercialized,’ ” says Jeff Straughn, Primary Wave’s senior partner/chief brand officer. “Today, it’s ‘How can I sell it?’ ”

This story appears in the March 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.

The show was, unequivocally, going off.
In time with the beat, columns of fire blasted from a complicated and expensive-looking stage setup as a litany of dance hits blasted through the speakers of Los Angeles’ Kia Forum, where more than 15,000 people and their approximately 30,000 ears were gathered to hear the music.

Drunk girls traded compliments in line for the bathroom while staffers trying to prevent fire hazards cajoled people to dance in their seats instead of the aisles. It was a proper arena rager, a de facto badge of success for any artist, but particularly so in the world of dance music.

At the center of it all, John Summit — tanned, smiling, his shirt unbuttoned to a chest level that suggested a regular workout routine — threw up heart hands while manning the cockpit of CDJs before him. It was Nov. 16, 2024, the final evening of the producer’s sold-out three-night run at the Forum, shows executed by a 130-person team working overtime. It was just one of the very big moments of Summit’s biggest year to date, and while the set wasn’t even done yet, in his mind it was already over.

“I got too comfortable by the end,” he reflects three months later, “and I was like, ‘This show is done. This is the last one.’ And not because it wasn’t great. I think it was excellent. But I don’t want to write the same movie twice.”

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John Summit performs at Billboard Presents THE STAGE at SXSW at Moody Amphitheater at Waterloo Park in Austin on March 15. Get your tickets here.

This sentiment embodies three essential truths about Summit. First and most obviously, that the 30-year-old Illinois native has accomplished quite a lot since emerging from the froth of internet buzz over the last five years. Second, that Summit possesses an almost strangely intense drive, a kind of stubborn single-mindedness that propels him forward even when the thing he has spent a year working on is still happening around him. And third: Summit’s tendency to most often describe his life not in terms of music but cinema. His big shows and capital B bangers are, for example, “big-budget projects, like Marvel,” whereas his smaller, clubbier sets “are A24,” he says, referencing the lauded indie studio. He compares the beginning of his sold-out Madison Square Garden show last summer to an action film, calling the pyro-heavy moment “basically me blowing up onstage. It was very Michael Bay-esque.”

Surveying the public-facing landscape of Summit’s life helps to explain his tendency to process it all in leading-man terms. Through an alchemy of talent, will, hard work and smart decision-making, Summit and his team have pulled off one of dance music’s rarest feats: becoming a hard-ticket juggernaut with a signature sound, big-ass hits and intergenerational appeal.

At the Garden, says Wasserman’s Daisy Hoffman, who represents Summit alongside Ben Shprits, “older adult fans” intermingled with younger ones. “I have 35-year-old friends with kids who are doing a girls’ trip to Vail [Colo.] for his show there, while my 25-year-old sister is following his every move on TikTok.”

A DJ achieving this kind of broad appeal is, today, a bit like spotting a snow leopard in the wild. “It’s very rare,” Shprits says. “It is extremely rare.”

OFY top, Lost ‘N Found pants, Tercero Jewelry necklace and rings.

Ysa Pérez

But it’s also not a fluke: Summit is a confident and adorable hustler with high standards and an intense Midwestern work ethic. “I’m delusional,” he says on a recent balmy Wednesday afternoon in Miami, where he moved to in 2020 to try and make it as a DJ. “I thought the first track I ever made was amazing.”

Since his first release in 2017, he has steadily attracted other believers, with his sprawling business now populated by managers, agents, accountants, label operators, radio pluggers, marketers, production designers, social media experts and the videographer who silently and ceaselessly captures footage as Summit shows me around Miami, a city where he has not only made it, but where he now avoids “super-glamorous spots where I feel like people are just staring at me the whole time.”

Dance superstardom has changed him. Whereas his social channels used to be plastered with drunken shenanigans, Summit now posts a lot about exercising. Hours before we meet, he shares an image of a yoga mat on the balcony of the waterfront condo he bought two years ago. While we chat, he talks about his need for consistent sleep (he tucks in at midnight and wakes up at seven) and more than once references his “personal growth journey.” But while Summit is Evolving with a capital E, his tenacity remains unaltered. After releasing his debut album, Comfort in Chaos, last July, he’s already at work on its follow-up. This summer, he’ll also headline festivals including Movement, Lightning in a Bottle and Bonnaroo; launch an Ibiza residency; and play shows in Australia, Europe and beyond.

“I’m hustling harder than I’ve ever hustled before,” he says, his Chicago accent strong. “The shows are only getting bigger and not just bigger, but better. The team is growing. My record label is growing. I’m working on a second album already, whereas I think most dance artists, especially house artists, don’t even do albums. Every year is crazier and crazier. It would be stupid to slow down when it’s snowballing.”

And yet it all occasionally leaves his head spinning. For example, Summit compares spending the holidays in his native Naperville, Ill., to the end of The Lord of the Rings, when Frodo Baggins returns to the Shire after risking life and limb to destroy the One Ring and finds that while his idyllic homeland is the same as when he left it, he — fundamentally transformed by his quest — is not. “I’ve had the craziest life, toured the whole world, had many adventures and late nights, got into some bad situations,” Summit says. “Then I come back home and everything is the exact same.”

One can see how opening Christmas presents in your parents’ living room in the suburbs might seem surreal after playing for hundreds of thousands of people across multiple continents. But it was in Naperville and nearby Chicago where Summit — then a “kind of nerdy runner” born John Schuster — was first exposed to dance music. It happened while seeing deadmau5 at Lollapalooza in 2011, an experience Summit, then 16, has equated to a sort of spiritual awakening. His subsequent journeys through SoundCloud were exacerbated by a high school love interest. “At first, I was just making music to impress my girlfriend at the time,” he says. “She liked all these DJs, and I was like, ‘I can f–king do this.’ ”

OFY top, Lost ‘N Found pants, Rick Owens shoes, Tercero Jewelry necklace and rings.

Ysa Pérez

Summit got serious about DJ’ing and producing while a student at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. By 2017, he had graduated with a master’s degree in accounting and was working at Ernst & Young while making music in his off-hours. (And, he admits, often during work hours, too.) He sent “dozens of demos” to a flurry of labels, focusing on esteemed U.K. imprints like Toolroom and Defected Records, which specialize in the house and tech house styles he was making.

“It’s no different than applying for 100 jobs when you’re out of college,” Summit says matter-of-factly of sending out demos. Eventually, a few small labels replied with feedback on how he could improve, and by 2018, they had signed a few of his tracks. By this time, Summit was in touch with a young manager named Holt Harmon, who was working with Summit on the release of a track he had made with an artist Harmon was then working with. The pair clicked.

“I had a call with Holt about, like, ‘How is this getting distributed? What’s the marketing strategy?’ I went very exec mode on him,” Summit says. “I think he was like, ‘Oh, this kid’s not just good at music. He gets it and he’s not lazy.’ I thought the same about him.”

Summit became the third artist signed to Metatone, the management company Harmon co-founded alongside Parker Cohen in 2018. But as things picked up for Summit, the pandemic hit. By now, Summit had been fired from Ernst & Young and was back living with his parents. But what might have seemed like a roadblock became something else.

“People saw the pandemic as a time to take their foot off the gas,” Shprits says. “And here you’ve got a 20-something guy on the verge of taking the next step in his career who saw it as an opportunity to do the opposite.”

In the basement, Summit made music and was extremely online, posting production tutorials, doing livestreams and winning people over with what Shprits calls his “unfiltered” personality. (“I would pay $500 to slap a warm bag of wine at a music festival right now,” Summit tweeted in May 2020, the deep days of the pandemic.) By the end of 2020, he had gone from livestreaming from Naperville to playing a b2b set with Gorgon City broadcast from a Chicago rooftop, racking up millions of views and likes along the way with this, as well as other self-deprecating, unapologetic and funny content. You couldn’t help but root for the guy.

Around this time, Summit moved to America’s dance music capital, Miami, with the goal of playing an extended set at the influential nightclub Space. “People didn’t see me as a serious DJ,” he says. “They saw me as someone who might have blown up on TikTok or something. Then I was doing these eight- to 10-hour sets of pretty underground music, not even playing a big vocal record until four or five hours in, kind of just proving like, ‘Yeah, I’m a f–king DJ.’ That was my version of taking on a very serious role.”

The method acting worked. When clubs reopened across the United States, Summit was suddenly selling out 500-capacity rooms in far-flung cities like Tempe, Ariz., often in seconds. He and his team focused on playing as much as they could, wherever they could, and venues eventually got bigger as the social media reach grew. His single and EP releases were largely house and tech house tracks, with his output helping propel the latter subgenre to increasingly bigger audiences, particularly as Summit experimented with bigger and more vocal-forward records, the kind that typically have maximum crossover potential.

His watershed moment came when he released “Where You Are,” a collaboration with power-lunged British singer-songwriter Hayla, in March 2023. “Before putting it out, I was like, ‘This is going to f–k up my entire career because this is a headliner, main-stage song,’ ” he says. “Very few DJs had become successful in the pop lane. It was like, ‘Am I ready for this challenge?’ Then I was like, ‘F–k it. Let’s do it.’ ”

“Where You Are” spent 26 weeks on Billboard’s Hot Dance/Electronic Songs chart; now has 298.7 million on-demand official global streams, according to Luminate; and was selected as a favorite song of 2023 by another Chicagoland resident, Barack Obama. By December 2023, Summit sold out Los Angeles’ BMO Stadium, moving 21,700 tickets and grossing $1.7 million, according to Billboard Boxscore.

“Where You Are” and other subsequent belters from Comfort in Chaos have, along with Summit’s general presence in the scene, agitated the dance world’s perpetual push-pull between the commercial and underground, a turf war that has long found artists wanting to play the biggest shows and have the biggest hits without losing the credibility and cool factor of dance’s less overtly capitalist sectors. But Summit wants to do both.

“John’s been very vocal about wanting to bring the underground to a large scale while bringing a production level that no one’s ever seen with this style of music,” Shprits says. “That’s always been the guiding light.”

But even if you’re playing music with underground origins, it’s not necessarily accurate to call yourself an underground artist while playing from atop a laser-shooting platform at the center of a sold-out arena. This is why Summit created Experts Only, the name of both the label on which he, in partnership with Darkroom Records, releases his own and other artists’ music and a party series where he plays lesser-known music (“I feel like I have to be very on the forefront with the records,” he says) for smaller crowds in tighter spaces.

“I look at John Summit and Experts Only as two different things,” Summit says. “John Summit is this grand display, a huge-budget production that shows my art and music from the album, whereas Experts Only is a party brand where me and DJ [friends] do cooler underground cuts … You hear so many artists who blew up that are like, ‘I hate playing my big song every night.’ They wish they could play more experimental stuff. I’m getting the best of both worlds.”

Doing both has broadened Summit’s appeal. The underground thing, Shprits says, is “generally attractive to an older demographic that’s experienced with electronic music. Then he has this amazing ability to craft songs that attract your high school and college demographic. Take all of that and then combine it with the personality, the packaging and the A&R’ing from the management and label side, it’s like the perfect big bang.”

And yet, Summit questions what the “hipster snob” John Schuster might think of it all. He recalls firing off “hypercritical” tweets at main-stage dance giants back in the EDM era; he preferred the heady vibes of Michigan’s beloved dance/jam festival Electric Forest and deep cuts like Shiba San’s 2014 house classic, “Okay.” “Now I’m here in those same shoes getting as much s–t talked about me. I think that’s maybe why I can get through it without getting too offended, because that was me doing the s–t-talking.”

CUBEL x The Room jacket and pants, Lost ‘N Found tee, Rick Owens shoes, Tercero Jewelry rings.

Ysa Pérez

But when you read most every social media comment, as Summit says he does, the ability to laugh off insults is helped by what he calls “a good supporting cast.” (He screenshots particularly egregious remarks and sends them to the inner circle for diffusion.) Taking a team approach to his career “is way less lonely,” with every person on the team not only bringing “a Swiss Army knife” of abilities, but together creating a perpetual group hang that’s the antidote to the cycle of loneliness, depression and addiction that has historically plagued dance artists.

Still, he is John Summit of the John Summit project, and his vision is specific. Here in Miami, he has ideas for how he wants to be photographed and filmed. He likes a lot of prep and knowing what the plan is. He’s agreeable and charming. You could also call him bossy — or just someone who knows what he wants.

“For better or for worse, I challenge people around me as much as possible to be at their greatest,” he says. “I’m ever-evolving, and everyone has to be ever-evolving around me.” Cohen says that among the team, Summit is often referred as “the third manager.” Shprits acknowledges that “at many times, John has challenged us to understand where he was going with this and to meet him.”

Summit isn’t quite sure where the drive comes from. “I was fortunate to have a very normal upbringing,” he says, and his parents (his father is a commercial airline pilot and his mother a real estate agent) “are like, ‘You’re doing great. You don’t have to keep pushing.’ I don’t come from an incredibly successful artistic family. There’s no mounting pressure.” At least, not from outside sources.

“This is one of the most competitive industries in the world,” he continues. “I can’t let off the gas because the second I do, someone else is going to steam ahead. I’m going to try my best and try to be the best. Otherwise, what’s the point?”

So, for the foreseeable future, Summit shall keep gunning it. After Comfort in Chaos hit No. 39 on the Billboard 200, he’s now at work on a follow-up album that he wants to be “bigger and better.” While he didn’t get any 2025 Grammy nominations after campaigning for them, he says that just gives him “something to strive for.” And while dance music isn’t even a genre that necessitates albums, Summit sees them as meaningful: “I look at some of the greatest artists over the last generations, where album after album, they try to outdo themselves, reinvent themselves.” He takes cues not only from musicians but high-achieving athletes and, naturally, actors, calling Timothée Chalamet’s recent run “f–king incredible” and particularly inspiring.

For the next album, he’s interested in releasing a short movie alongside it. A recent rewatch of the 2014 film Whiplash inspired him to buy a drum kit and, maybe, play percussion on some of his new music. While he “shot my shot” with pop stars like Charli xcx and Dua Lipa by tweeting at them asking to work together (no collaborations have resulted), he says working with this type of artist “is not needed in my career,” given the strong roster of vocalists with “raw talent” like Hayla, Julia Church and more that he has surrounded himself with. He regularly brings out these vocalists during big shows and “f–king loves it” when they get a huge crowd reaction.

Plus, having tried working with a few pop stars, he finds bumping into their limited schedules “very diva-like. And as a diva myself,” he says with a laugh, “there’s only room for one of us.”

OFY top and tee, Lost ‘N Found x Levi’s pants, Rick Owens x Dr. Martens shoes, Tercero Jewelry rings.

Ysa Pérez

As writing gets underway, he’s also finding that he has grown up a bit since the days when his tagline was “My life is a bender.” (“My bender era walked so brat could run,” he tweets while we have lunch; the sentiment gets 2,500 likes before the plates are cleared.) Comfort in Chaos explored deeper topics than partying, and he says making it was a huge leap in his maturation. A song like his 2022 “In Chicago” (sample lyric: “I’m drunk, I’m high and I’m in Chicago”) “is basically like LMFAO,” he says. “It’s like my ‘Party Rock [Anthem].’ ” Comfort in Chaos, on the other hand, was largely about love and longing. When asked about this subject matter, he acknowledges that “I’m a lover boy” but demurs when asked to expand, saying only, “I tell it through the music, not in interviews.” (If anyone wants to read the tea leaves, the lyrics of Summit’s most recent song, the moody indie dance track “Focus,” inquire, “How’d we get so lost inside of this room?/Watching you turn into someone I never knew/I remember love, but it’s slipping out of view.”)

While Summit works out these big feelings in his new music, he’ll also spend the rest of 2025 headlining major U.S. festivals and touring the world; he and his team are particularly focused on international expansion this year. Outside of Ibiza, he says “there’s really no money” in international shows, but adds that revenue isn’t the point: “I’m young and hungry, and I want to showcase my art with the world.”

It’s all a wild ride, a summer popcorn blockbuster, a journey to Mordor and back. It’s the kind of stuff Summit sometimes thinks about after the workday ends, when “I take an edible and think, ‘Holy s–t, this world is crazy.’ But then I wake up in the morning, snap out of it and get back to it.”

This story appears in the March 8, 2025, issue of Billboard.