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When Miley Cyrus’ “Flowers” debuted in January 2023, it topped the Billboard Hot 100 — and remained there for eight weeks. The album it introduced, Endless Summer Vacation (her eighth full-length and first on Columbia Records), went on to hit No. 3 on the Billboard 200. And a year later, the single and album both remain forces: At the upcoming Grammys, Cyrus (who has yet to win one) has six nominations, including song and record of the year nods for “Flowers” and an album of the year nod for Endless Summer Vacation.
Many of her closest album collaborators spoke to Billboard about how they came to take this creative trip with her — and why her Grammy recognition is long overdue.
All Aboard!
Mike WiLL Made-It, writer-producer: Since we’ve made so many hits over the years, Miley approached me and said she wanted me involved — she felt like this was going to be her best work yet. She has already explored so many different sounds, and she’s really on her songwriting. It’s always dope to work with her because she’s constantly pushing the envelope.
Michael Pollack, writer-producer: Miley and I had done a few writing sessions in 2021 with no real mention of an album. It wasn’t until we got back in the studio in January of 2022 that the momentum seemed to pick up and I started to notice Miley assembling Endless Summer Vacation.
Tyler Johnson, writer-producer: I think it was just part of being in the system after working on the Harry [Styles album Harry’s House]. And Miley’s team and our team — myself and Kid Harpoon’s teams — wanted to make it happen. We got together for a week at NightBird Studios [in Los Angeles] and wrote the song “Wildcard” and started our relationship with Miley. Six months later, after she heard some music that we had been working on with Kevin Abstract, she came over to do a potential feature on one of the songs.
Kid Harpoon, writer-producer: I’ve always been a fan. I just fanboy when she’s singing. When we [reconnected], she had some songs she liked but she didn’t have a production direction on them. The big thing for her was, “I want to make an album I’m proud of.”
Tobias Jesso Jr., writer: I ran into [Columbia CEO] Ron Perry at Adele [One Night Only] at Griffith [Observatory in L.A.]. He was like, “Hey, I’d really like to get you involved in this Miley thing.” In this particular session, I knew why Ron wanted me there: He wanted me to write a song on the piano with Miley. As soon as all the writers were there — Mike WiLL Made-It, Bibi Bourelly and me and Miley — I was like, “Why don’t we go to the piano and just try some stuff?” I think within 30 minutes, “Thousand Miles” was written.
Tobias Jesso Jr.
Justin Chung
Tyler Johnson
Cedrick Jones
Greg Kurstin, writer-producer: Ron Perry and [Miley’s co-manager] Jonathan Daniel both reached out to me about Miley. We initially got together to write songs and “Jaded” came out of one of our sessions with [writer] Sarah Aarons. We spent a lot of time at my studio. Miley is great to work with because she has a clear vision of what she wants and she doesn’t stop until she gets it. She’s also a lot of fun.
Caitlyn Smith, writer: Since Miley cut our song “High” on her 2020 Plastic Hearts record, she and my co-writer, Jenn Decilveo, had been texting about the three of us getting together and writing a bit for her next record. It was a last-minute “Want to write this week?” in April of last year that led to a day in the studio.
Jenn Decilveo, writer: [Miley] sent me this idea, and then we got together with my friend BJ [Burton] and Caitlyn, and that was the start of “Island.” I think it was at Larrabee in the Valley [in L.A.] — 1-2-3 done. She’s such an incredible songwriter and had so much input melodically, lyrically, productionwise. She was involved in every aspect.
Maxx Morando, writer-producer: We were just hanging out, and I was working on stuff and she was working on stuff, and she heard the instrumental version of “Handstand” and was like, “Oh, I have an idea for the vocal.” I made [it] during COVID-19 — and I don’t even smoke that much weed, but I think I was really high when I made it.
Gregory “Aldae” Hein, writer: [Columbia Records head of A&R Rani Hancock] was a cheerleader for Miley to work with me. Ron Perry FaceTimed me and was like, “Hey, we’re going to bring you in with Miley. This is what we want from you.” I went in with her and it was just instant chemistry. The first day we ever worked [together], we wrote “Used To Be Young” in less than an hour.
Mike WiLL Made-It
Cam Kirk
Michael Pollack
Nesrin Danan
Stopping To Smell The “Flowers”
Pollack: “Flowers” was written in January of 2022 during a week of sessions at Sunset Sound [in L.A.]. The song came together organically, being written in its entirety at the piano. Initially the idea was slower and sadder, but both Greg [Hein] and Miley had the vision to make the song positive and free-spirited. We demo’d the song on Rhodes [piano] and left thinking it was a ballad — or at least I did. Almost immediately after, I remember being told, “ ‘Flowers’ is going to be the first single and it’s going to be produced out as an uptempo.”
Hein: Miley randomly texted us almost a year later, like, “Hey, just so you guys know, you have my first single.” Then she invited me to the music video shoot and I saw the scene where she walks up in the gold dress and I was like, “Oh, this is going to be a thing.”
Johnson: Ron Perry was really leading the charge of making sure “Flowers” and “Used To Be Young” were right. Those songs were definitely the priority, especially “Flowers.” But while we were working on that, we were doing other records, and it was actually [album track] “Rose Colored Lenses” that helped us gel.
Kid Harpoon: “Rose Colored Lenses” isn’t necessarily anything single-y, but we just loved it. Those songs are the soul of the record. “Rose Colored” was always the one that felt like the touchstone, but making sure that “Flowers” did its job in relation to that was important.
Johnson: It’s important for artists like Miley to have a level of autobiographical texture to their songs. Then you mix that with something people can move to, that feels new and retro at the same time, and it’s a really powerful cocktail.
Hein: It all comes down to, “I can love me better than you can.” That’s the all-encompassing lyric to me. I was in a city just now called Siguatepeque in Honduras and I was driving to meet a priest for my wedding coming up and there was no music playing in this city but “Flowers.” That one’s reach is just crazy.
Maxx Morando
Eva Pentel
Kid Harpoon
Josiah Van Dien
Vacation Scrapbook
Smith: Miley arrived at the studio wanting to write this idea called “Island.” She talked to us about how being in the spotlight since she was a kid has put her on a bit of an island from the rest of the world and how it’s beautiful but, at times, can be really lonely. I’m obsessed with the hook: “Am I stranded on an island or have I landed in paradise?”
Decilveo: I love that line, which is one she wrote, which I think sums it up. Being uber successful, uber everything — is it paradise, or are you stranded alone? Not being able to go out because you’re so famous and you can’t go to Trader Joe’s because people won’t let you walk down the aisles like a normal person.
Smith: Also, Miley’s mom came by for a bit that day, and she had told us about this “Smoke ’Em If Ya Got ’Em” hat that she had bought. Later that day, we thought it would be a great line to put in the song.
Jesso: I love [on “Thousand Miles”] how country she gets on “Pick up the phone and I call back home, but all I get is a dial tone. And instead of hangin’ up, I hang my head.” It was really cool to see Mike WiLL Made-It be part of that too, because it’s not something you imagine, but he was so into it.
Mike WiLL Made-It: Miley took the song and switched the direction. I was already married to what we made but she took it to Grammy collaboration level. She got Brandi [Carlile] on the song and that was the piece that was missing. That’s how we ended up with the banger “Thousand Miles” we hear today before every Delta flight.
Morando: For “Violet Chemistry,” [Miley] was like, “Do you think you could add some sauce into this song and spice it up?” [My friend Max Taylor-Sheppard and I] thought, “What if we did some Erykah Badu bridge with a stinky bassline and something crazy?” It happened in maybe 15 minutes. We like the idea of throwing a wrench in something — a tasteful wrench.
Kid Harpoon: They’re very similar, Miley and Harry [Styles]. They’re giant pop icons, but their process is like an indie kid that just wants to have fun and doesn’t really give a sh-t about all the pop stuff. They just want to make something creative, so for those kinds of brains, going in and trying to write a pop hit is going to completely destroy all their fun. Me and Tyler [engineered] an environment in the studio where you can just do whatever the f–k you want.
Jesso: Even if you had a day session with Miley, it wouldn’t feel like a day session because she gets real so quick. She has just been so exposed in her life that she’s like, “What have I got to lose?” That’s a very fertile place for creativity to live. You feel a jolt of this creative energy from her, almost at all times. It’s sporadic and it’s crazy and it’s wild — but it’s the best kind.
Jennifer Decilveo
Brantley Gutierrez
Greg Kurstin photographed on November 28, 2022 in Los Angeles.
Austin Hargrave
Destination: Grammys
Smith: She seems to have arrived at a place in her life and her career where she doesn’t want to chase but simply create from the heart. I remember her talking about how even though she was successful and had reached this place and level in her career, it still felt like a treadmill, and she still felt like she was always “chasing the carrot.” She seems to have entered a season of life where she has found some peace and clarity. I think it shows in this record.
Pollack: Over the years we’ve seen so many sides to Miley and her music. Endless Summer Vacation is a representation of what all those elements look like when they come together.
Morando: This has been a long time coming for her. Endless Summer Vacation is a fantastic album; on top of that you have her whole career and everything that she has done before. Now [she’s] at this pinnacle.
Hein: It’s her most mature body of work.
Mike WiLL Made-It: This is the year where she wins album of the year after all the growth and hard work. This album, she found and unlocked another sound, that poster-girl Miley sound that no one can replicate.
Caitlyn Smith
Robert Chavers
Gregory “Aldae” Hein
Sylvain Photos
Jesso: [2013’s] Bangerz was robbed. The Grammys need prison for Bangerz not being nominated for album of the year. Aside from that, I think it’s time for her to get what’s due.
Kid Harpoon: I still love Bangerz. It’s a classic. The thing I’ve always felt with Miley is that everyone wants Miley to win. She represents that part of everyone who doesn’t give a f–k and just wants to enjoy their life. I think this is a culmination of years and years of just being an absolute boss. People think, “Oh, someone writes Miley’s songs,” or “someone tells her where to stand, someone does this, and the record label says this,” but it’s not like that, and it’s a narrative that I just don’t think is helpful. And someone like Taylor [Swift], she’s helped change that narrative. That’s why I’m proud of Miley, because the Grammys will mean more, in a way, [now]. [A Grammy win is] recognition by your creative peers that you created this, and she really did.
Johnson: Without the Grammy, people are [still] singing the song. People are living their lives to this music. That’s the point of it. Grammys are a reflection of that already achieved milestone. We’ve already won — this would just be a bonus.
This story will appear in the Jan. 27, 2024, issue of Billboard.
“Shellback was bored,” ILYA says, reflecting on how he and the Swedish hit-maker ended up working together for the first time — ultimately changing the course of his career. Having grown up in what he calls “the hood of Sweden,” ILYA’s discovery of music production was a bit of a surprise — quite literally, as he found a CD of the music-making program Dance eJay in a cereal box. From there, he says, he “fell in love with creating.”
By his late teens, in 2005, ILYA signed a publishing deal with Warner Chappell Music and remembers “grinding, grinding, grinding… with not a lot happening.” Several years later, he met Shellback (Britney Spears, P!nk, Taylor Swift), who eventually asked ILYA what he was working on, and later suggested to his close collaborator Max Martin that they should all team up. “Coming up to that point, I had a lot of almosts,” recalls ILYA, now 37. “I had songs with One Direction that just fell off and didn’t make the albums. All those years were so important to learn how to act in the room, how to deal with people’s emotions and all these things leading up to when I got the shot from Shellback and Max.”
Almost immediately, ILYA scored a major win as a co-producer and co-writer on Ariana Grande and Iggy Azalea’s 2014 smash, “Problem,” which hit No. 2 on the Billboard Hot 100. “Every time I make music today, I try to channel the energy I had when we did ‘Problem,’ ” says ILYA, who has continued his relationship with Grande for a decade, leading into her current era. “Making that beat, it was like, ‘I’m just going to do me.’ And when that success finally happened… It was unbelievable.”
Ariana Grande, “Yes, And?”
“This whole song was her idea — she had a vision. I remember we were going through chords and she was like, ‘It needs to be more confident. It has to be more sassy.’ When Ari’s describing an emotion she wants to have, I instantly go, ‘What sounds can make that emotion come to life?’ And to me, the 909 drums are what that vibe is. In the bridge there are all these funny Mellotron sounds that are really ’60s, Beatles-esque, and a flute that Max played that I laugh at every time I hear it. Once we finished it, that’s when I fell in love with it.”
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Tate McRae, “Guilty Conscience”
“The first time I worked with [Tate] she seemed very unsure of everything. There was one song we did so many versions of because she couldn’t decide which one was the best. But I think growing up, she feels much more confident in what she likes, which helps me a lot. I’ve never finished a song as fast as this one… it was all her initiative. We wrote it and then had to turn it in that week or the week after. Everything [came] from whatever happened that day.”
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Conan Gray, “Never Ending Song”
“Conan started working with Max for a few days and they cracked this sonic direction, but not the details. And then Max came to me and was like, ‘Conan would love to work with you for this next round.’ Once the song was done, [Max and I] spent a lot of time running stuff through analog gear. Sometimes it’s cool if a song sounds like it’s made quickly — but the details and tasteful stuff that you can get from analog gear, you can’t beat that.”
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This story will appear in the Jan. 27, 2024, issue of Billboard.
When 9-year-old Coco Jones was first trying to break into the entertainment world — auditioning and sitting in business meetings with strange executives — her mother would sometimes give her a secret signal.
“If my mom grabbed her earring, that meant, ‘You need to sing.’ And I’d sing,” Jones recalls with a laugh. “I spent a lot of time perfecting the a cappella.”
That early confidence-building lesson has served Jones well. At 12, she embarked on the path to tween stardom with roles on Disney Channel shows and films like So Random! and Let It Shine; more recently, she won the role of Hilary Banks on Peacock’s Fresh Prince reboot, Bel-Air. And now, it has helped her become one of R&B’s most promising rising stars, signed to High Standardz/Def Jam Recordings. “She’s one of the hardest-working artists that I’ve ever worked with,” Def Jam chairman/CEO Tunji Balogun says. “Coco is an artist with the confidence of a veteran but the energy of a newcomer.”
As Jones explains with characteristic conviction on the eve of her 26th birthday, she’s not simply an actress trying out a new side career. “I’m actually a singer who pursued acting at the same time,” she says. “But the acting caught on before the music did. Music has always been my comfort, my purpose — the driving force that has kept me in this industry.”
Powered by her compellingly soulful voice and self-assured moxie, the singer-songwriter had a major breakthrough in 2023. Her RIAA platinum-certified single, “ICU,” has now netted her Grammy Award nominations for best R&B song and best R&B performance — just two of five that Jones will vie for at this year’s event, along with best new artist, best R&B album for What I Didn’t Tell You (Deluxe) and best traditional R&B performance for her collaboration with Babyface, “Simple.”
“It feels surreal,” Jones says of her first-ever nominations. “And to see these other amazing women like [fellow nominees] Victoria Monét, SZA and Janelle Monáe who are paving different lanes for a modern R&B that can be so flexible and genreless … I commend us. But in another way, this feels like confirmation of my journey; that there can’t always be a storm. The weather has to change.”
Coco Jones photographed on January 5, 2024 in New York.
Jai Lennard
Jones began that journey 17 years ago in Lebanon, Tenn., as a kid auditioning and entering talent competitions, singing songs of raw emotion way beyond her years that her mother, Javonda — who, Jones says, studied music in school and did some background singing as well — introduced her to, like Aretha Franklin’s “Chain of Fools.”
In 2011, Jones landed a recurring role on Disney’s musical sketch-comedy series So Random! and the next year, she co-starred in the Disney film Let It Shine. Five Let It Shine tracks she sang on — “What I Said,” “Whodunit” (with Adam Hicks), “Me and You,” “Let It Shine” and “Guardian Angel” (the latter three collaborations with actor-rapper Tyler James Williams) — launched her onto the Billboard charts for the first time in 2012, as all made the Kids Digital Song Sales list.
But Jones wanted to be a singer-songwriter in her own right. And though Hollywood Records released her 2013 EP, Made Of (which reached No. 10 on the Heatseekers Albums chart), the label dropped her the following year. Two more independent EPs followed (2017’s Let Me Check It and 2019’s H.D.W.Y.); in between, Jones continued acting, including in the 2016 film Grandma’s House, the 2018 TV series Five Points and the 2020 film Vampires vs. The Bronx.
By the time she landed those projects, Jones had forgone college, moving to Los Angeles at 17 to further pursue her dream of becoming a singer-songwriter. “That was a key sacrifice: comfort,” Jones says of making the decision. “I didn’t choose the route that was expected and thought things would happen immediately. But it didn’t work out that way. Without a continuous source of income, I was living off my savings as a Disney kid. So [as a young adult] it was getting real. I could only be a young girl following her dreams for so long. But I got to live, make friends, fall in and out of love … be normal — which helped me find my own voice, my sound.”
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In 2020, a major turning point occurred when a fan from her Disney days asked on social media what was up with her career. Jones responded to the query on YouTube, sharing the struggles and second-guessing she had faced as a Black female artist while “opening doors for people to see me as an adult.”
“Instead of internalizing that comment, Coco made a video to give fans and others information and context [about her industry experiences],” Def Jam’s Balogun says. “Then she started doing covers of popular R&B records [Mary J. Blige’s “Real Love,” Brandy’s “Full Moon”] that she posted on TikTok and YouTube that started to reframe conversations about her as an artist. And when she got on Bel-Air, that gave her a new audience who may not have known she does music.”
Jones’ work ethic, focus and determination are what initially impressed Jeremy “J Dot” Jones (no relation) — the founder and CEO of High Standardz, a joint venture with Def Jam — who signed her in summer 2021, before her audition for Bel-Air.
“Before I even got to the music, I saw how professional and on point she was about her vision for what she wanted to do and how she wanted to do it,” J Dot recalls of first meeting Jones. “And then there was the voice, which blew me away. So I felt that with the right plan, the right producers and time to grow in the marketplace, she would have a strong opportunity to stake her claim in the game. Between the loyal Disney fan base, the R&B covers, Bel-Air and seeing how much she has grown artistically from being a child star, I definitely think fans who felt like Coco didn’t get a fair shot early on were ready to see her win.”
With the breakout success of “ICU” from her What I Didn’t Tell You EP, Jones has finally graduated from Disney star to adult singer-songwriter on the rise. “This is who I am offscreen, without a script,” Jones says of the EP’s songs about relationships, love and heartbreak. “These are my own secrets, my own life.”
Coco Jones photographed on January 5, 2024 in New York.
Jai Lennard
The pureness and clarity of Jones’ full-bodied vocals call to mind R&B’s traditional soul roots and its 1990s heyday, but she puts a modern spin of her own on the proceedings. “ICU,” her aching examination of the painful withdrawal and residual feelings after a romantic split, spent four weeks at No. 1 on the Mainstream R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay chart; it also reached No. 6 on Hot R&B Songs and has earned 175.6 million official U.S. streams (through Jan. 4), according to Luminate.
Follow-up single “Double Back,” which samples the SWV hit “Rain,” reached No. 21 on Mainstream R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay. And Jones is on the road to becoming an in-demand collaborator as well: She guested on Brent Faiyaz’s summer 2023 top 10 R&B hit, “Moment of Your Life,” and more recently paired up with ascendant pop singer and fellow actress Reneé Rapp on the remix of Rapp’s “Tummy Hurts.”
“Def Jam and High Standardz wanted to make sure the R&B audience understood, accepted and championed Coco,” says Balogun, whose roster also includes rising R&B stars Muni Long and Fridayy. “We also focused on making sure people saw her perform live [either] on her tour, the Soul Train Awards [or] other shows. The report card in R&B is live performance and what matters to the core base is, ‘Does it sound and feel as good as the album?’ She has been able to live up to that.”
With filming of season three of Bel-Air starting at the end of January, Jones is also working on her debut album, due later this year. But she says fans shouldn’t simply assume it will be part two of the EP.
“That story has been told,” Jones says. “Between this taste of success and being on tour, I’ve learned so much that I can’t be anything that I was. The most raw and authentic version of whatever you’re doing is going to win. You just have to be willing to bare your spirit.”
This story will appear in the Jan. 27, 2024, issue of Billboard.
As two of the music industry’s most in-demand studio engineers, Serban Ghenea and his son Alex Ghenea are accustomed to being grilled about their signature techniques, as if making a hit record is about following some mysterious magic recipe.
The truth, says Serban, 54, is both simpler and a bit more complicated than that. “It always comes down to what the artist is looking for, or the producer, and how to get there. And that means a lot of different things for different artists.”
It’s reasonable enough to think the Gheneas have some secret sauce. With a credit list that spans the mightiest voices in pop past and present — including Taylor Swift, Michael Jackson, Adele, Bruno Mars and Justin Timberlake — and a staggering 19 Grammy Awards, Serban is one of the most prolific engineers in the world.
Alex, 28, has been a rising star ever since he remixed Adam Lambert’s “Better Than I Know Myself” in 2012 at age 15; since then, he has amassed a résumé of blockbuster credits with the likes of Ariana Grande, Khalid, blackbear, P!nk, Katy Perry and Selena Gomez.
These days, the Gheneas — who take on projects independently, though they informally weigh in on each other’s work — both are based at MixStar Studios, a private facility in Virginia Beach, Va., operated by Serban and Grammy-winning engineer John Hanes. Recent MixStar projects include The Rolling Stones’ “Angry” (mixed by Serban) and Halsey and Suga’s “Lilith (Diablo IV Anthem)” (remixed by Alex).
At this year’s Grammys, the two have eight nominations between them — including competing nods (two for Serban, one for Alex) in the new best pop dance recording category. That’s already cause for celebration for the duo, who are characteristically humble when considering the possibility of both father and son taking home trophies. “We’ll figure that out if that happens,” Serban says. “I don’t want to jinx it.”
Alex, you grew up in the studio, watching your dad. Serban, what did you think when he started to express an interest in the work?
Serban Ghenea: From way back in the day, I would check my mixes in the car, listen to what I was working on the day before. It’s part of the process. He was in a car seat, and he’d be sitting there, listening, and asking, “What’s that sound?” And I’d be, “Oh, that’s a triangle.”
And he was interested in music. He played drums; he started playing early. By the time he was 16, I got him Logic and a Mac, just to learn to mess with it. I didn’t expect much, but next thing I know, I come in one day and he’s working on something that sounded familiar.
Alex Ghenea: A Demi Lovato song.
Serban: Yeah, “Skyscraper.” He found an a cappella [recording] online and built a whole new track around it, just with Logic. I was like, “Holy sh-t, what are you doing?” He said, “I’m just playing around.” I said, “Here, listen to these songs and see if you can figure out how they make them and try to re-create it.” And so, he did a remix. I never explained how to do that, and never expected it. We sent it over to Disney —
Alex: It led to an Adam Lambert remix.
Serban: That opened the door for him doing a ton of remixes.
Alex: I think I was about 15 years old.
Did your dad have to explain to you that this wasn’t the typical career trajectory?
Alex: When I was a kid, I remember specifically, he said, “Forget about music; you should go study business or go be a lawyer,” and I actually ended up going to business school and studying marketing and I married a lawyer. So, I kind of took his advice.
Serban: He was on a path of doing remixes, and he was collaborating with a bunch of different people. Then, when COVID-19 happened, he was living in Los Angeles, and he came back [to Virginia Beach] that March and then the lockdown happened. He never went back to L.A. A lot of people that he was working with were writers; he would do the demos and rough mixes. So, when he was here, he just started to do that work, and it turned into mixing. And then, next thing you know, he was doing… What was the first big one?
Alex: [Blackbear’s] “hot girl bummer” with Andrew Goldstein, whom I’d met many years prior, during a writing-producing phase when I was living out in L.A.
Serban, in what ways have you passed your craft on to Alex?
Serban: The technical part of it he kind of just absorbed, being around and seeing it being done. I’d let him pick apart sessions and look at how things were put together. And I mean, anyone can learn that. The hard part is the aesthetic and trying to figure out what you should do. What do you like? What do you think people like? What do you react to? You only get that through experience and through listening.
Alex: Some of that early advice he gave me was, “Listen to a lot of music. Listen to stuff you like, listen to stuff you don’t like, listen to new stuff, old stuff.” You have to have a very wide palette of things to reference when you’re working on all sorts of songs and genres.
How much do you work together in the studio?
Alex: We don’t specifically work together, but now we’re sometimes on the same albums. Like with Tove Lo [Dirt Femme], I did a good bit, and he did some. Troye Sivan [Something To Give Each Other], that was about half and half. So, we’re working on the same projects, but it’s more of, I’d say, a collaborative thing. If I’m working on something and I’m like, “I think I’m at a good stopping point,” or, “I don’t know where to go next,” it might be cool to go play it for my dad.
Serban: We have the same manager, but Alex has his own clients. I have my own clients.
Alex: The biggest collaboration is probably figuring out what we’re eating for lunch at the studio.
Serban and Alex Ghenea have extensive mixing resumes — including shared clients like Ariana Grande, P!nk and Halsey.
blackbear: Gilbert Flores for Variety. Bruno Mars: Kevin Mazur/Getty Images. Cardi B: Ilya S. Savenok/Getty Images. Cyrus: Arturo Holmes/Getty Images. Francis: Sela Shiloni. Grande: Trae Patton/NBC/NBCU Photo Bank/Getty Images. Halsey: Samir Hussein/WireImage. Jepsen: Jasmine Safaeian. P!nk: Weiss Eubanks/NBCUniversal/Getty Images. Rapp: Santiago Felipe/Getty Images. Swift: Matt Winkelmeyer/Getty Images. Surfaces: Stefan Kohli. Swims: Steve Granitz/FilmMagic. The Weeknd: Pascal Le Segretain/Getty Images.
How do you balance serving someone’s vision with stretching yourselves creatively?
Serban: It’s so different now than it was when I first started mixing on a console. People are very attached by the time it’s approved and ready for us to mix; the direction of the record is kind of set. You can’t go crazy and take it off the rails, so you need to figure out, like Alex said, what needs to be improved. What do you not want to mess with, because you don’t want to break it?
Every song’s got its own signature thing that makes it unique and attractive. Sometimes it’s a little riff; sometimes it’s the way the whole beat feels. Or there’s a melodic thing in there, or the sound of the vocal, or sometimes it’s all of the above. But, at the end of the day, you’re just trying to facilitate and help get it across the line depending on what [the artist is] looking to do.
Serban, you have seven Grammy nominations this year, and Alex, you’re nominated for the first time. What does that mean to you?
Serban: Back in the day, I was a guitar player. My perspective was always, “Wouldn’t it be cool to do something as a musician and get a Grammy?” I never thought I’d be doing what I’m doing now. It’s the highest level of recognition. It never gets old. It’s hard to describe, but it’s definitely an exciting and appreciative feeling, because so many amazing musicians don’t get the opportunity.
Alex: I remember at age 16 or 17, being able to go with my dad and see the whole thing and watch him win a few. Being around all the musicians and producers and seeing what that world is like, I remember always wanting to be a part of it, thinking, “Man, I hope one day I get to be up on the stage, or at least have a shot at being nominated.” To actually see that come to fruition is pretty humbling.
You’re up against each other for best pop dance recording — Serban for Bebe Rexha and David Guetta’s “One in a Million” and David Guetta, Anne-Marie and Coi Leray’s “Baby Don’t Hurt Me,” and Alex for Troye Sivan’s “Rush.” How does that feel?
Serban: Well, I hope he wins.
Alex: Just to be up there with [nominees] Calvin Harris and Kylie Minogue and all that, that’s already a win.
Serban: Yeah, the Grammy itself is not the end goal. It’s a nice recognition and pat on the back and makes you realize that maybe what you’re doing may be on the right path, but it’s not the end-all.
Alex: It’s confirmation that what you’re doing is in the right direction.
This story will appear in the Jan. 27, 2024, issue of Billboard.
On the Friday before his Saturday Night Live debut, Noah Kahan is still nursing the wounds from an L he took at 30 Rock earlier in the week.
Kahan, the show’s next musical guest, was filming SNL’s obligatory midweek ads alongside cast member Sarah Sherman and host Emma Stone. “I always thought that I could be, like, a funny actor,” says the rising singer-songwriter — who is, indeed, pretty funny on social media. “Did not go down like that.” While Sherman and Stone easily bantered, the usually witty and loquacious Kahan stood stone-still, giving wooden readings of his couple of short lines.
“I was definitely super-nervous and just kind of like, ‘Oh, my God,’ ” recalls Kahan, 27, still in slight disbelief at his own frozenness. “I feel like I’m usually able to navigate through [moments like that] and make it look OK. But that one, I was like, ‘Man, I just got dominated by Emma Stone and Sarah Sherman.’ ”
It’s a minor loss worth noting — simply because Kahan has had so few over the last year-and-a-half. After an occasionally frustrating first seven years on a major label — he signed to Mercury Records/Republic Records in 2015, recording two albums in more of a folk–pop, James Bay-esque mold — Kahan finally struck pay dirt with 2022’s Stick Season, following both a sonic pivot to alt-folk and a thematic shift to more personal, geographically specific writing based on his experiences growing up in northern New England. The rousing title track went viral on TikTok that summer, and the album debuted at No. 14 on the Billboard 200 in October, Kahan’s first time making the chart.
But 2022 was just the warmup for the cold-weather singer-songwriter, whose sepia-toned ballads and stinging-throat stompers — as well as his breakout hit, named for the time of year in the Northeast when the trees go barren — have made him something of an unofficial ambassador for late autumn. Kahan’s crossover became undeniable in June with the release of his Stick Season deluxe edition, subtitled We’ll All Be Here Forever.
The reissue shot the album to No. 3 on the Billboard 200, largely on the strength of seven new tracks — one of which, the barnstorming, back-of-a-cop-car lament “Dial Drunk,” became his first Billboard Hot 100 hit, after an extensive tease on TikTok. That song went top 40 following the release of its remix featuring fellow Mercury/Republic star Post Malone — which also kick-started a run of new Stick Season remixes, with guests like Kacey Musgraves, Hozier and Gracie Abrams, who boosted their respective tracks onto the Hot 100 for the first time.
Noah Kahan photographed on December 1, 2023 in New York.
Wesley Mann
As Kahan talks to Billboard in December, he’s also ending 2023 with a number of notable firsts: his first Grammy Award nomination (for best new artist at the Feb. 4 ceremony), the announcement of his first major festival headlining gig (Atlanta’s Shaky Knees this May) and, of course, that SNL debut — which he had originally manifested in a 2021 tweet (“I wanna perform on SNL I don’t even care if it’s a off-brand version called Sunday Night Live”).
And in the end — even if his underwhelming teaser performance didn’t lead to any acting opportunities on his episode — his ripping performances of “Dial Drunk” and “Stick Season” still made for an overall win. Now, with winter on the horizon as we speak, the self-aware Kahan jokingly wonders if his appropriately dominant late-year run may be coming to its seasonal close.
“My time is ending, and we’re going into Bon Iver era now,” he says with a laugh. “He gets the baton.”
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Much like the trees’ gradual-then-sudden shedding of their autumn leaves, Stick Season’s takeover may seem — to anyone who wasn’t paying attention — like it came out of nowhere.
But Kahan had been growing his audience steadily, albeit slowly, for nearly a decade. It helped that he had the continued faith of Mercury/Republic, which longtime co-manager Drew Simmons says believed in Kahan’s talent from the first moment he auditioned for the label.
“He just played a couple of songs acoustic for them in their lounge space — and I remember [Republic founder and CEO] Monte Lipman popped in for a minute and was basically like, ‘Sign this kid tomorrow,’ ” Simmons recalls. “He said to Noah, ‘You have no idea how good you are.’ ”
Kahan’s first two albums, 2019’s Busyhead and 2021’s I Was / I Am, showed his talent and promise — particularly his ability to build worlds within a song and his ease with writing and performing shout-along choruses — but their brand of folk-pop aimed perhaps a little too squarely for a top 40 crossover bull’s-eye and suffered for their studiousness. But though both sets’ commercial performance was underwhelming, they allowed Kahan to develop his chops as a road warrior, gigging constantly around the country at midsize venues and developing a devoted following. “Noah’s story is one of proper artist development,” Simmons says. “He’s eight, nine years into his career, but those were really important years for his personal growth, his songwriting growth, his ability to own a live stage.”
Noah Kahan photographed on December 1, 2023 in New York.
Wesley Mann
But it was Kahan’s Cape Elizabeth EP, released between his first two albums in 2020 at the early height of the COVID-19 pandemic, that offered a blueprint for his later Stick Season success. He pulled back on the busy top 40 production and penned four of the EP’s five intimate tracks without co-writes — and while Cape Elizabeth made minimal mainstream impact, fans’ immediate connection to it showed that Kahan was on to something.
“The path he is on now started during the pandemic while he was home in Vermont and we were all trying to figure out what to do,” says Ben Adelson, executive vp/GM at Mercury. “He had written a lot of great folk songs that he wanted to self-record at home and that became Cape Elizabeth. We fully supported it, and that really helped set the stage for what has come.”
It also helped that around the same time, the mainstream winds were starting to blow back in Kahan’s direction. TikTok’s rise to prominence had provided the world a new, effective communal space for sharing music. And as the global pandemic forced everyone indoors (and inward), Kahan’s brand of introspective, reflective songwriting suddenly found an audience in listeners yearning for simpler times.
That shift could be seen in the slow-building success of organic-sounding, Americana-leaning country singer-songwriters like Tyler Childers and Zach Bryan, both of whom grew star-level followings in the last few years. And of course, no one forecast (or accelerated) the changing tides more than Taylor Swift, whose pair of rootsy 2020 surprise releases (folklore and evermore) put up equivalent numbers to her more pop-oriented releases and effectively raised the commercial ceiling for main-character alt-folk, a more Gen Z-friendly revival of the folk-pop boom of the early 2010s.
“The biggest artist in the world is writing very grounded folk music that tells stories,” recalls Kahan of Swift’s pivot. “And it allowed a huge new audience to find interest in that and to tap into that world. You know, some of these kids might not have been listening to music when Mumford & Sons, when Lumineers [were first around]. Taylor doing that brought that new generation to folk and folk-pop. And I definitely think that helped bring visibility, and some sort of significance, to what I was doing.”
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Nearly a decade since the commercial heyday of those strum-and-stomp hit-makers, they remained core influences on Kahan — “I never stopped f–king listening to Mumford & Sons,” he says — so when he decided to head in a new creative direction, alt-folk was a natural home for him. But while most of those groups tended to go lyrically broad with their arena-aimed anthems, Kahan narrowed his writing focus to his own experiences: growing up in Strafford, Vt., and Hanover, N.H., and the struggles with anxiety and depression he’s still navigating today.
“I like to think that storytelling is something that can always bring success, if you tell it in the right way and if you tell it with the right intention,” he says. “And so my intention behind this project actually was really pure — just to talk about New England and to talk about my childhood and my family. I wanted to examine those things, and I wanted to think about my hometown and think about my parents and think about my journey with mental illness — and I have a hard time doing that without writing songs.”
Unlike the previous generation of alt-folkies, Kahan is also, well, funny. His brand of humor is unmistakably influenced by his Jewish heritage on his father’s side — he refers to himself as “Jewish Capaldi” at live shows and says “sometimes I just feel like Larry David walking around” — and makes for a marked contrast from his avowedly straight-faced, chest-pounding antecedents, many of whom sang implicitly or explicitly about Christian themes.
“Growing up half Jewish and having this face on me… it has kind of been a big part of my identity,” he says, laughing. “I’m not going into a song, ‘Let’s get this one extra Jew-y.’ But I think it plays into the cultural aspect of [my music] — into the humor. And down to my diet. Like, I got the acid reflux stomach, just like my dad.”
Noah Kahan photographed on December 1, 2023 in New York.
Wesley Mann
Religion aside, Kahan’s mannerisms — the mile-a-minute speaking, the gently anxious energy, the self-deprecating and filter-free humor — should be familiar to anyone burdened with both an overachiever’s self-confidence and a late-bloomer’s insecurity. Ultimately, the biggest factor in Kahan’s leap to stardom might be the generation of terminally online, oversharing introverts that recognizes itself in his personality (both onstage and on social media) as well as in his lyrics. And that manifests at his shows, which are increasing in size — beyond festival headlining, Kahan will embark on his first amphitheater and arena tour this summer — without losing their immediacy and intensity, as crowds in the thousands now shout Kahan’s incredibly personal words back at him.
“No one else can tell my own story,” Kahan says. “And if people want to hear your story, then you’re in a really awesome position, because you hold the key to your own memories and people are interested in what those memories mean to you — and find connections to their own memories, to their own lives.”
While Kahan may have joked in December about passing the folk torch to Justin Vernon — the genre’s esteemed dead-of-winter representative — Stick Season actually has no end in sight. Kahan’s touring in support of the album will take him through Europe and Canada the next few months, before bringing him back to the United States this summer. Meanwhile, the remixes continue to roll out, most recently one with Sam Fender — maybe the closest thing to Kahan’s northeast England equivalent — on late-album highlight “Homesick.”
Most remarkably, the title track that kicked off this Kahan era a year-and-a-half ago is still growing on the Hot 100, recently hitting the top 20 for the first time, while the album it shares its name with snuck back into the Billboard 200’s top 10. Kahan also just announced a new Stick Season (Forever) reissue, due Feb. 9, which will include the entirety of his latest deluxe set, plus all of his previously released recent collaborations, two fresh ones and a new song, “Forever.” “We’ll All Be Here Forever” is starting to sound less like a lament and more like a premonition.
At a time when most albums struggle to maintain listener attention for a full month, let alone a year or longer, the extended impact of Stick Season is stunning — and Kahan and his team have savvily maximized its longevity, resulting in one of the biggest glow-ups a new artist has experienced this decade. He now counts superstars like Bryan and Olivia Rodrigo as both friends and peers; the latter covered “Stick Season” for BBC Radio 1’s Live Lounge and even sent him flowers after his best new artist Grammy nod, an award she herself won two years earlier. (“It was so incredibly sweet… she’s just a star, and she’s so nice,” Kahan says.)
It’s reasonable to wonder, at this point, if there’s a Stick Season saturation point — both for fans and for Kahan himself. He played over 100 gigs in 2023, and at press time, already had almost 80 on the books through September, with more likely on the way. With the number of opportunities available to him increasing along with his popularity, it’s a potentially perilous time for an artist who has been open about his mental health struggles — particularly while on the road — and who has waited for his moment as long as Kahan has.
“I have a real scarcity mindset,” he says. “Who knows when this will come again? So you have to take advantage of every opportunity. I think that mindset makes sense in a lot of ways, but in some ways it hurts you. Sometimes I overextend and feel like I’m overpromising and not able to deliver when the moment actually comes.”
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To that end, Kahan and his team have focused on how to balance his drive and his overall well-being. “We are saying no to a lot more than we ever have in the past,” Simmons says. “But I think he wants to make the most of this. He wants to be around for a long time, and he wants to put the work in, and he’s not afraid of that. So he’s kind of applying the mentality he had from the first seven or eight years of his career… it’s a grind, and it’s a lot of travel, a lot of work. But he is up for it.”
When Kahan does finally leave Stick Season behind, he’ll do so with the kind of established rabid fan base and artistic freedom to make him the envy of nearly every current performer not named Taylor Swift or Beyoncé, and plenty of room still to grow. Still, Kahan is ambivalent about how much bigger he even wants to get. He cops to being “super-competitive” both creatively and commercially, but also recognizes that “the level of microscopic attention that that next level seems to bring” might not necessarily be the best thing for him.
“Some days I’m like, “Man… I want to play f–king Gillette [Stadium] next!’ And then sometimes I’m like, “Whew, let’s just go back and play [New York’s] Bowery Ballroom and, like, chill out and play a bunch of acoustic songs,” he says. “I have to fight back against the next ‘more more more’ thing sometimes. Because it never really brings you whatever you think you’re going to get from it. It never brings you the total satisfaction and, like, self-peace that you think it would.”
Ultimately, though, he’s satisfied with his hard-earned level of current success and somewhat Zen about what may follow — even accidentally echoing the subtitle of the latest Stick Season edition while explaining his mindset.
“I think it’s about being optimistic about the future, but also being realistic about what you’re going to feel when you get there. And realizing that if you feel good here — and we’re here forever — then we’d be OK.”
This story will appear in the Jan. 27, 2024, issue of Billboard.
In 2019, Alabama-born country–rock quintet The Red Clay Strays were plugging away at building a core fan base, playing small clubs and festivals around the Southeastern United States in hopes of exposure. “We were a bar band at the time, playing honky-tonks [with] no stability, really just chasing the dream,” harmonicist/guitarist/vocalist Drew Nix says. In the same breath, he acknowledges the toll such commitment took on their romantic partners. “We were like, ‘Our women have the short end of the stick of this. I wonder why they even like us.’”
The notion led Nix and the group’s lead singer Brandon Coleman, along with songwriter Dan Couch, to write “Wondering Why,” the band’s breakthrough hit from their 2022 album Moment of Truth, putting them on the mainstream map.
The bluesy romantic ballad depicts a committed, if unlikely, love story between an upper-class woman and a working-class man. (“I don’t know what happened, but it sure don’t add up on paper/ But when I close my eyes late at night, you can bet I thank my maker,” Coleman croons in the opening verse.) More than a year after its release, “Wondering Why” made its debut on the Billboard Hot 100 — in late December, no less, even amid the typical influx of holiday songs on the all-genre chart. Now, the band’s first entry rises to a new No. 71 high on charts dated Jan. 20 as it builds at radio and streaming.
Composed of Coleman, Nix, Zach Rishel (electric guitar), Andrew Bishop (bass) and John Hall (drums), The Red Clay Strays have been making music since 2016, with most of the group meeting during college or through prior gigs. Crafting an amalgam of rockabilly, gospel, soul, blues and hints of country, Coleman’s barrel-chested vocal and 1950s Johnny Cash-meets-Jerry Lee Lewis onstage aesthetic shape what he refers to as “non-denominational rock’n’roll.”
While crafting its sound in the local circuit, the independent band began to add pieces to its team, including Conway Entertainment Group’s Cody Payne as manager. He first met the group in 2019 as a booking agent and later began working with the group through the company’s management arm, Ontourage Management. As his position continued to grow, so did the group’s fan base within the community and online: by the time the members felt ready to record a debut album, Payne played an instrumental role in igniting crowdfunding efforts to help with the financial struggles of paying for studio time.
“I built it on their website, straight PayPal,” Payne says. Despite not having an official monetary goal in mind, he recalls thinking that $30,000 would be enough to get the job done — and was floored as the total quickly soared past that number. “The first week we did over $50,000; by the end of it we had about $60,000.”
The Red Clay Strays
Macie B. Coleman
The Red Clay Strays
Macie B. Coleman
Using analog methods at a Huntsville, Ala. studio, the band spent just over a week creating Moment of Truth, which was subsequently self-released in April 2022. Though it was initially met with tepid commercial returns, at the start of the following year, Payne hired Coleman’s younger brother, Matthew — who is also one of the band’s primary songwriters — as a videographer to help grow The Red Clay Strays’ online presence. The band also signed with WME for booking representation in January 2023, and within the span of a few months, announced a series of high-profile opening gigs for Elle King, Eric Church and Dierks Bentley.
In May, the band began taking meetings with a handful of labels, with the members parsing the decision of whether to sign or remain independent — until they met with Thirty Tigers co-founder/president David Macias. “It just made more sense for us,” Coleman says. “Instead of giving us the dog and pony show, David gave us straight advice. There was no pitch. That’s what I wanted to hear. If I’m betting on anybody, I’m betting on us every time.” By September, following months of touring festivals including Lollapalooza and CMA Fest, The Red Clay Strays had officially signed to Thirty Tigers.
With Matthew’s help, the band began to upload an influx of clips, largely consisting of live performances, to TikTok, Instagram and Facebook. “He was putting out reels and social numbers kept going up,” Payne says. “Wondering Why” has soundtracked more than 71,000 TikTok videos to date, along with a lyric video for the song that has compiled more than 2.5 million YouTube views.
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In the time since, “Wondering Why” has grown across formats and genres: on charts dated Jan. 20, the breakthrough hit holds at highs on Billboard’s Hot Rock Songs and Hot Rock & Alternative Songs charts, reaches a new No. 19 best on Adult Alternative Airplay and sits at No. 22 on Hot Country Songs. Labels have again reached out, says Payne, though the band has no plans to move from Thirty Tigers.
Additionally, despite plans to release a follow-up project by early summer, the recent chart success has spurred second thoughts to “let ‘Wondering Why’ and Moment of Truth breathe a bit,” Payne adds. When the new album does arrive, it’ll boast production from Dave Cobb, thanks to Conway Entertainment Group’s Brandon Mauldin setting things in motion with mutual connection Shooter Jennings. “Since we’ve started, the goal from day one was to work with Dave Cobb,” Coleman says. “The fact that it actually happened is surreal.”
The Red Clay Strays
Macie B. Coleman
From left: Drew Nix, John Hall, Brandon Coleman, Andrew Bishop and Zach Rishel of The Red Clay Strays with their manager Cody Payne (third from left) in Red Rocks, CO.
Macie B. Coleman
In the meantime, the band will continue its Way Too Long headlining tour, in addition to more festival dates, including Boston Calling and Hinterland. Coleman knows as the hype for “Wondering Why” mounts, so too may the pressure to follow it up while the iron is hot — but he’s keeping his cool amid the band’s breakthrough moment.
“Everybody yelling at us to play it from the beginning of the show is kind of crazy, but it’s cool. I’m thankful for the recognition, but I always have it in my mind that people [go] viral for a month or two, then the next thing comes along.”
A version of this story will appear in the Jan. 27, 2024, issue of Billboard.
It’s a perennial question that dominates the discourse every year when the Recording Academy votes to recognize musical excellence. In a world where success can be measured with streaming figures, tour tickets sold, social media followers — and, yes, Billboard chart placements — what significance do those classic golden trophies still have?
For these 18 past winners, all nominated again in 2024, plenty, from keeping the music community vibrant to facilitating future hits to simply boosting morale.
Jon Batiste
Past wins: Album of the year (We Are), best score soundtrack for visual media (Soul), best music video (“Freedom”), best American roots song (“Cry”), best American roots performance (“Cry”) (all in 2022).
Nominated this year: Album of the year (World Music Radio), record of the year (“Worship”), song of the year (“Butterfly”), best pop duo/group performance (“Candy Necklace”), best jazz performance (“Movement 18’ (Heroes)”), best American roots performance (“Butterfly”).
Jon Batiste
Douglas Mason/Getty Images
Why does democracy matter? Why does recognition matter? Why does acknowledgment matter? Why does the idea that someone who exists in a narrow corridor of humanity, creating music and songs and videos and performances — why does the acknowledgment of that matter, in a democratic process through peer recognition and achievement? If we throw all that out — if that doesn’t matter — there are greater questions of what matters and doesn’t that we need to address.
It’s important for us as a community to acknowledge each other and our achievements, even if we don’t all agree on what they are or what the metrics of that should be. Ultimately, I encourage communities of artists who disagree. It’s important. There’s room for us to have debate about what deserves recognition and [how that’s measured]. But at the end of the day, we need a democracy, and we need to back the achievements of folks. That’s a ritual that goes back millennia, and that’s part of how we continue to build and understand what’s important and signify to future generations what we deem important. —AS TOLD TO REBECCA MILZOFF
Dan Wilson
Past wins: Song of the year (“Not Ready To Make Nice,” 2007), album of the year (21, 2012).
Nominated this year: Song of the year (“Butterfly”), best country song (“White Horse”).
Dan Wilson
Shervin Lainez
The Grammys are a great way to put the music-making community front and center. They are a good reminder of how a great pop song can create a shared experience for people of widely diverging backgrounds and beliefs. The show’s performances are often pretty inspiring and powerful. I also like the fact that the final voting is done by the musicians and artists themselves.
My first Grammy win, for “Not Ready To Make Nice” by The Chicks, did make a big difference, mostly in ways that I appreciate. That win was a vindication of a kind for the band — in the aftermath of all The Chicks’ political troubles, the Recording Academy voters sent them a strong message of support. That felt really good. Secondly, that record was loved by the songwriters and artists. I think that made artists, in particular, more comfortable with the idea of working with me. I think Adele, for example, would’ve been far less likely to do the “Someone Like You” sessions with me if I hadn’t worked with The Chicks and helped them make that body of work. Adele loved that album, and I think it gave her confidence that she and I could do something great together.
I’ve been at this music thing for a long time, and to be nominated in four different decades is a very rare honor. I think whether or not I’m a good songwriter has been determined by now, and the Grammys don’t affect that. Mostly, what these nominations signal to me is that I’m a very fortunate person. I’m very grateful for that. —AS TOLD TO LYNDSEY HAVENS
Mark Ronson
Past wins: Producer of the year, non-classical (2008), best pop vocal album (Back to Black, 2008), record of the year (“Rehab,” 2008), best pop duo/group performance (“Uptown Funk!,” 2016), record of the year (“Uptown Funk!,” 2016), best dance recording (“Electricity,” 2019), best song written for visual media (“Shallow,” 2019).
Nominated this year: Song of the year (“Dance the Night [From Barbie: The Album]”), best compilation soundtrack for visual media (Barbie: The Album), best song written for visual media (“I’m Just Ken [From Barbie: The Album]”), best song written for visual media (“Dance the Night [From Barbie: The Album]”), best score soundtrack for visual media (Barbie).
Mark Ronson
Justin Shin/Getty Images
The first Grammys [I attended] in 2008 was so incredible… I was actually with my mother — like a good Jewish boy on Grammy night. And then [in] 2013 we were nominated for “Locked Out of Heaven,” and we lost to some French robots who very much deserved it. Then a few years later, being back with Bruno [Mars] for “Uptown Funk!,” that was another fantastic year. There’s Kendrick [Lamar] in front of you and George Clinton and all these people that you love and respect so much, and you love their work and everybody’s there together… [The Grammys] are these wonderful nights, whether you win or lose, where you’re there with the people that you came up with.
A win on Grammy night is always incredibly rewarding. It’s the top honor in the field that we all work so hard in. I’ve already gotten so much further than I ever thought I would and much more than I ever could have really dreamed of… I used to probably be a little more competitive about it. Now it really is, without sounding cliché, just nice to be recognized. A win would certainly be the icing on the cake — but I’m just happy to be at the party. —AS TOLD TO L.H.
Lauren Daigle
Past wins: Best contemporary Christian music album (Look Up Child), best contemporary Christian music performance/song (“You Say”) (both in 2019).
Nominated this year: Best contemporary Christian music album (Lauren Daigle), best contemporary Christian music performance/song (“Thank God I Do”).
Lauren Daigle
Jeremy Cowart
Time has passed since I got my [first] Grammys, but the rooms that I am now able to sit in, with some of the most incredible writers, producers and performers on the planet, is truly the greatest gift of all. I’m very grateful for the types of doors that have opened for me.
When I was told about the nominations this time, I couldn’t help but feel a sense of joy. Other incredible artists and peers in the business reaching into my world and saying my music matters is something that humbles me. Another win would be like adding oil to the lantern… It would give me a chance to honor all of the amazing people who made this record with me [and] would hopefully give them a chance to have their dreams take flight, too. —AS TOLD TO L.H.
Tariq “Black Thought” Trotter
Past wins: Best rap performance by a duo or group (“You Got Me,” 2000), best musical theater album (Hamilton, 2016).
Nominated this year: Best rap performance (“Love Letter”).
Tarik “Black Thought” Trotter
Joshua Kissi
I remember when we [The Roots] won our first Grammy. We were sitting in the audience. I was kicking it with Lenny Kravitz and Zoë [Kravitz]. Zoë was like 11 or 12, and I remember sitting there being like, “Yo, that’s so dope that he brought his daughter. When my daughter is old enough, I’m going to bring her to the Grammys.”
I remember being lost in that moment. There was no doubt in my mind that we were just nominated and weren’t going to win. We were up against the titans, and it was everybody with all of the joints that year. So for us to win, it just felt surreal. I felt like we arrived. It was definitely a validation within that moment. That was really for Philly. Once you’re stamped, once you have that credential, it’s a different certification. It definitely holds weight. It makes a huge difference. When you’re recognized by any academy, it’s a huge stamp as far as branding, businesswise, achievementwise and in every regard.
What the Grammy means to people, fans and artists is ever-evolving. The earlier Grammys [win] was more monumental because it was my first and did represent that arrival. Winning a Grammy in recent years, it’s a different sort of validation. It speaks to the decades of hard work that I’ve put in. It’s a different certification and gives you a certain boost of confidence to continue in your creative journey. —AS TOLD TO CARL LAMARRE
Carlos Vives
Past wins: Best traditional tropical Latin album (Déjame Entrar, 2002), best tropical Latin album (Más + Corazón Profundo, 2015).
Nominated this year: Best tropical Latin album (Escalona Nunca Se Había Grabado Así).
Carlos Vives
Del Vecchio
I never dreamed that something like this could happen to me in the Latin world, much less did I think that I could ever be honored by the American Recording Academy. Winning my first Grammy is unforgettable because it left me with that taste of hope that I’ve connected with others. When the academy values the work of a Latino who sings in Spanish, it is a special and important sign for me.
Winning a Grammy still matters today. It’s a dream, actually. It has become an aspiration of a musician who wants to make an impact in the industry. A musician aspires to a Grammy, and for the academy to look at that musician and say, “This is original, this is authentic, this deserves a Grammy” — that’s everything. It matters today because when the academy nominates a body of work, [like it did] this year [with] Escalona Nunca Se Había Grabado Así, it validates the local musicians who identify with vallenato. There’s a strong message there to all young musicians who want to make a living from music. —AS TOLD TO GRISELDA FLORES
Lecrae
Past wins: Best gospel album (Gravity, 2013), best contemporary Christian music performance/song (“Messengers,” 2015).
Nominated this year: Best contemporary Christian music album (Church Clothes 4), best contemporary Christian music performance/song (“Your Power”).
Lecrae
Artimio Black
Unlike winning an NBA or NFL championship or something along those lines, there’s not a direct correlation between the work you put in and the reward or award. But there is a sense of appreciation from your respected peers who validate the hard work and effort that you put into your art. So it’s really like the highest compliment you can receive for your art from your peers, whether you’re being nominated or being voted for to win. If you’re Michelangelo and have Picasso saying, “Man, that looks amazing…,” that’s a very high form of praise. And that’s what I appreciate the most. —AS TOLD TO GAIL MITCHELL
Rhiannon Giddens
Past wins: Best traditional folk album (Genuine Negro Jig, 2011), best folk album (They’re Calling Me Home, 2022).
Nominated this year: Best Americana album (You’re the One), best American roots performance (“You Louisiana Man”).
Rhiannon Giddens
Ebru Yildiz
Winning is amazing because, for the rest of your career, you’re like, “I have a Grammy, and I’m grateful to have won.” I am always holding a banner for what I’m representing, so if you win, it’s like, “We get another chance to talk about [fiddler] Joe Thompson’s music.”
Awards for art are very complicated, and I know I’m not the only one that has complicated feelings about them. On one hand, how do you give awards for something that’s so subjective? [Singer-songwriter] Allison Russell, she’s always clear-minded about the idea of what the Recording Academy is: Ideally, it’s a group of your peers. The Recording Academy has been aggressive in making internal changes that mean more of the diversity that has already existed in our country for a long time is represented in the Grammys. I see all the good work that’s being done while also acknowledging that the whole system is problematic. But it’s the system we have, and people are trying to make it as fair as possible. Saying all of that, it feels good to be regarded by your peers as someone worthy of notice. They are saying, “We see what you’re doing, and we want you to keep doing it.”
It’s hard to say if [my Grammy wins and nominations directly created opportunities for me]. There hasn’t been any kind of “I saw you were nominated or won a Grammy and we’ll give you this.” That almost never happens. I think it’s more of an accumulative effect. In [the] folk and Americana categories, it’s still more back to the basics of who’s coming to see you — not the song that they heard on TikTok. —AS TOLD TO JESSICA NICHOLSON
Alex Lacamoire
Past wins: Best musical show album (In the Heights, 2009), best musical theater album (Hamilton, 2016; Dear Evan Hansen, 2018), best compilation soundtrack for visual media (The Greatest Showman, 2019).
Nominated this year: Best musical theater album (Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street).
Alex Lacamoire
Bruce Glikas/Getty Images
I remember being conscious of the Grammys when I was working on Wicked. I played piano on the original cast album, and I remember the Grammy win and being proud, but it was a different thing when Heights was nominated and we eventually won. That show was scrappy in the best way, and here was some shine on it — like, “Oh, wow! People know about us!”
Cast albums in general are vital, particularly because that’s how a lot of people learn about musicals. When you do the math and you take a Broadway house that fits somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 people per performance, there’s only a certain degree of reach you’re going to have. When you record a cast album, suddenly everyone across the world can learn about what you’ve been up to. Most people become familiar with the album before they see the show — case in point was Hamilton. [When] the album came out, the number of people that had seen the show was in the tens of thousands — and then we suddenly make the jump to millions of streams.
The fact that the Grammys acknowledge our medium, it gives more clout to what we do. It says what we do has a place. It makes us feel like we have a home in the community of artists and musicians. What I love about the Grammys is that it’s community-based: It’s voted on by peers, it’s nominated by peers, and that group keeps growing. And working to make the voting base more diverse brings more diversity to the kind of records nominated. Being Cuban-American, working on the things I’ve worked on, that helps put light on things that may not have gotten it before.
Those of us who work in musical theater, we always talk about how we’re a bunch of misfits, we’re laughed at. But we’re strong, we’re resilient, and we’re passionate about what we do. To be welcomed in categories alongside people who are so well known, it gives us a little pep in our step. —AS TOLD TO R.M.
Andrew Watt
Past wins: Producer of the year, non-classical (2021), best rock album (Patient Number 9, 2023).
Nominated this year: Best rock song (“Angry”).
Andrew Watt
Jeff Kravitz/FilmMagic
I won the producer of the year Grammy during COVID-19, and I was in my own house when I found out. I was just sitting on my couch with a couple of friends, and it was like, “Holy f–king sh-t!” I’m a behind-the-scenes guy, and I’m doing 12- to 15-hour days sometimes, and to be recognized by your peers is just a beautiful thing. It’s not why you do it, but when it happens, it makes your heart full. I don’t care who you are — people say, “I don’t give a f–k about the Grammys,” and that’s OK. But when you win one, it’s the greatest feeling ever.
I woke up this year [after nominations were announced], and it said, “Best rock song: Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and Andrew Watt.” Like, are you f–king kidding me? Mick and Keith were so excited and happy, too. It’s the coolest thing ever, just to be nominated. Of course you want to win, but it’s great to feel like people took notice of the stuff that you worked so hard on. You don’t make music for people to not hear it! —AS TOLD TO JASON LIPSHUTZ
PJ Morton
Past wins: Best traditional R&B performance (“How Deep Is Your Love,” 2019), best R&B song (“Say So,” 2020), best gospel album (Gospel According to PJ, 2021), album of the year (We Are, 2022).
Nominated this year: Best traditional R&B performance (“Good Morning”).
PJ Morton
Richard Bord/Getty Images
Years ago, as an independent, I would’ve never been mentioned alongside the names of major artists at the Grammys. But around 2017, with my Gumbo album, the playing field started to even [out]. Now it’s amazing to see more independent artists being nominated. I see Emily King [a current best R&B album nominee] and my friend Kenyon Dixon [also a best traditional R&B performance nominee] — true independents that I’ve watched fight this fight with me. It says a lot about where we are today musically and the efforts the Grammys has made to prioritize craft over sales and radio.
A Grammy still matters because you can’t take sales or the number of hits with you. What stands as a legacy is the art that you made. I got into music for the sake of my friends and girls. (Laughs.) And I think [musicians] are still that adult version of wanting to make things that our friends think are cool. It’s different when your peers vote for you. It’s a beautiful thing; an indicator that you’re at least on the right track.
When Gumbo was nominated [for best R&B album], I was up against Bruno Mars. I had an idea that I might lose. (Laughs.) But the nomination was a gift in disguise. Just my name being mentioned next to Bruno made people [curious] to see who I was. The Grammy thing is still real as far as having an impact on how people view you — and then, in turn, on what you’re able to do as a result of that. —AS TOLD TO G.M.
Juanes
Past wins: Best Latin pop album (La Vida…Es un Ratico, 2009; MTV Unplugged Deluxe Edition, 2013), best Latin rock or alternative album (Origen, 2022).
Nominated this year: Best Latin rock or alternative album (Vida Cotidiana).
Juanes
Andrés Sierra
When I won my first Grammy, I was in disbelief. Overwhelmed with joy and gratitude toward the academy, I found myself reminiscing about the long journey to that moment. It was an incredibly beautiful and memorable time. The Grammys not only open doors but also serve as a crucial catalyst in garnering recognition for artists within the industry and among the public. Winning a Grammy has a significant importance because it acknowledges not just an individual, but an entire team whose collaborative efforts bring to life music that resonates with and captivates the audience. It’s more than just songwriting; it involves talented engineers, musicians and many others. The recognition of the collective artistry in an album has become even more vital than in the past. —AS TOLD TO G.F.
Hit-Boy
Past wins: Best rap song (“N—s in Paris,” 2013), best rap performance (“Racks in the Middle,” 2020), best rap album (King’s Disease, 2021).
Nominated this year: Producer of the year, non-classical, best rap album (King’s Disease III).
Hit-Boy
@warrengee
Winning my first Grammy with Jay-Z and Kanye [West] was something you could only dream about. Listening and studying them before I could even make music myself and [ending] up making a song that impacted all the artists on that level was like, “Damn. You got it. Just keep going.”
“N—s in Paris” was cool, but winning best rap album in 2021 was a different level. That was dope because I made the beats on Nas’ album. King’s Disease was like, “Man, I put a lot more man hours into this than ‘N—s in Paris.’ ” I took it to that next level, but [those wins] all are equally important.
I didn’t expect the producer of the year nomination this year. This year, I did two of my albums, put out a project with my dad, put Nas’ albums [out] and did a couple of one-off joints, but my main primary focus was stuff I could control. The Musiq Soulchild album came out under my imprint. Everything I was doing was everything I owned, put my heart and soul into and invested money in to make these things come to reality. Sometimes, you might be like, “Damn, I’m not on top of Rap Caviar every day; I’m not the top streamer. But I’m still making something that’s having an impact.”
Everybody that’s the top people in music, they’re the ones getting nominated. To be in that conversation alone is ill. —AS TOLD TO C.L.
Tobias Forge (Of Ghost)
Past wins: Best metal performance (“Cirice,” 2016).
Nominated this year: Best metal performance (“Phantom of the Opera”).
Tobias Forge (of Ghost)
Jordi Vidal/WireImage
When you’re working with art, you normally do not have a whole lot of the sort of moments that you have within sports. In sports, the win is very momentary: Either you win or you lose. Whereas an artistic career is usually over the course of time. Even if you’re somewhat successful as an artist, it’s very, very rarely happening overnight. When you’re nominated for awards, that’s the closest you can get [as an artist] to that “One second ago, I didn’t have it, and now I have it.” [Winning a Grammy] is one of the few moments I’ve had throughout my professional career where I really felt [how things] could have felt very different had I not achieved what happened 10 seconds ago. The rings on the water meant a lot of things professionally in terms of quote-unquote “being taken seriously.”
Radio, promoters — if you for some reason might be looking for a new label — all of a sudden, when you’re nominated, it’s a stamp of approval that will automatically make potential collaborators, partners, what have you, give you more chances. That is not to say that you can come in and be a dick. You just automatically get a bit more of a gravitas in maneuvering within the different aspects of your career in a way that you might not have, had you not had the stamp of approval of getting a Grammy nomination — or, even better, winning it. But as with most things, what you’re getting is a bag of tools. And you can choose not to use them. Over the course of many, many decades of artists getting awards, there are many that have gotten an accolade and then just faded into nothingness. Because it’s all about momentum. You should see it as a steppingstone. It’s part of your journey, not the end of it. —AS TOLD TO ERIC RENNER BROWN
Dan Nigro
Past wins: Best pop vocal album (Sour, 2022).
Nominated this year: Producer of the year, non-classical; album of the year (Guts), record of the year (“vampire”), song of the year (“vampire”), best rock song (“ballad of a homeschooled girl”).
Dan Nigro
Shervin Lainez
When I was playing in a band, and in the beginning of my songwriting-production career, winning a Grammy seemed like such an unattainable thing. So it didn’t necessarily hold importance [to me], mainly because I never thought I would be nominated for one, let alone win one! But in 2014, my friend Ariel [Rechtshaid] was nominated for producer of the year, and I remember being so excited that someone I worked so closely with was nominated. I think it was in that moment that I realized that a Grammy was something I could actually have a shot at being nominated for.
[Winning] holds a great amount of significance mainly because it’s based on voting by my peers in the music community and not simply on stats alone, which a lot of awards nowadays are. That’s a critical element [of] these awards that others don’t have [that] helps make it feel even more special. —AS TOLD TO R.M.
Arooj Aftab
Past wins: Best global music performance (“Mohabbat,” 2022).
Nominated this year: Best global music performance (“Shadow Forces”), best alternative jazz album (Love in Exile).
Arooj Aftab
Ebru Yildiz
[Musicians] work hard, and we’re really sensitive people. It’s really difficult to translate the state of the world and the current human condition into this thing that is music that holds so much of people’s emotions together. The Grammys are important because they give you this giant accolade for that. It’s a really special thing to be there among all your peers, to be nominated among incredible albums, to even submit among everybody and then to perhaps win. It’s a beautiful thing.
Since I won, when somebody’s introducing me before a performance or if it’s on a prospectus or any type of thing, it now says, “Grammy Award-winning artist Arooj Aftab.” Whether it’s a performing arts center programmer or it’s a festival programmer or it’s grant organizations or just the audience as a whole, and even musician peers, it has had a very significant impact. There has been an undeniable shift since I won. What that means? I’m not sure. (Laughs.) But what I can say is that it definitely does something — something positive.
It opens you up to an audience that may not have otherwise found your record. I always watch the [Academy Award]-nominated animated shorts because I don’t really know about that [area of film] that much. There are people who like music in that way and are like, “OK, I’m going to check out all the Grammy-nominated albums in this new jazz category that I like.”
It’s thrilling; it’s the highest accolade of music. At the end of the day, it’s awesome to win a Grammy — it really just is. —AS TOLD TO E.R.B.
Michael Romanowski
Past wins: Best immersive audio album (Soundtrack of the American Soldier, 2021; Alicia, 2022), best engineered album, classical (Chanticleer Sings Christmas, 2022; Bates: Philharmonia Fantastique – The Making of the Orchestra, 2023).
Nominated this year: Best immersive audio album (multiple category nominations): God of War Ragnarök (Original Soundtrack), The Diary of Alicia Keys, Blue Clear Sky, Act 3 (Immersive Edition).
Michael Romanowski
Frazer Harrison/Getty Images
The Grammys are the only peer award in music. They are voted on only by people who are currently active in the music community, and I think that’s huge. It meant the world to me to be nominated and feel like a peer in a very overwhelming industry…
I’ll be honest: [Since winning] my business hasn’t really changed, more or less. I’m busy. I’m a workaholic. I keep doing records. I love the people I’m working with, and I get to work with some amazing folks and heroes. The fact that I get to continue to do that work is all that matters to me. I didn’t change my rates, and I didn’t farm out the work to somebody else… I still believe very, very much in handcrafted-ness and doing it myself. That’s my reputation and my name, so [winning a Grammy] hasn’t changed my business in a time or dollar sense. What it has changed is my perception. The perception of me being a peer. The perception of me being an authority figure or someone that makes a difference in this world and is known. It is very powerful and moving. —AS TOLD TO KRISTIN ROBINSON
Jason Isbell
Past wins: Best Americana album (Something More Than Free, 2016; The Nashville Sound, 2018), best American roots song (“24 Frames,” 2016; “If We Were Vampires,” 2018).
Nominated this year: Best Americana album (Weathervanes), best American roots song (“Cast Iron Skillet”), best Americana performance (“King of Oklahoma”).
Jason Isbell
Erika Goldring/Getty Images
I was certainly honored and very much surprised [when I won my first Grammy]. When I was a kid, I dreamed of winning a Grammy, but as I got older, I started to see the music I made as more of a boutique style. For a while there, I truly didn’t believe it would be possible for an artist like me to have mainstream appeal. The first Grammy wins gave me some hope that there might be more space for my kind of music than I had previously thought.
There’s certainly some sense of validation that comes with winning Grammy awards, and I have no doubt it’s caused my audience to grow. Also, it gives you something to say to the person sitting next to you on a plane when they ask, “Have I ever heard any of your songs?” More importantly though, it gave me more confidence to continue down the path of independence and make the music I want to make. It’s really nice when you do it your way and it pays off.
To be honest with you, I think the Grammys do a better job of being inclusive and open-minded than the other major award shows. The playing field still isn’t level by any means, but when it comes time to make nominations and give out the trophies, I prefer the Recording Academy’s methods and decisions over those of similar organizations. —AS TOLD TO E.R.B.
This story will appear in the Dec. 16, 2023, issue of Billboard.
After Harvey Mason Jr. embarked on a series of trips to Africa in 2022 that were “guided by curiosity,” the Recording Academy CEO and the organization at large were determined to become an “effective collaborator” for the creative communities across the continent. The first step arrived this year, when the category of best African music performance was unveiled. “Artists throughout the U.S., Africa and worldwide see this as a pivotal acknowledgment by the academy that African music has achieved extraordinary impact [and] influence throughout the globe,” chief awards and industry officer Ruby Marchand says. The academy’s African music genre manager, Shawn Thwaites, agrees, noting that the addition not only reflects the current music landscape but also “Africa’s profound influence on music history.” As Mason says, it is “the beginning of our journey to serve global music creators even more ambitiously.”
Here, each of the nominees discuss the historic new category — and what it means for African music’s future.
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How did you feel when you heard about the new best African music performance category?
Asake: I felt excited and grateful at the same time because African music and traditions have been a direct influence on the world for far too long to not have its own category. It is a great moment to be a part of.
What was your reaction to your collaboration, “Amapiano,” being nominated?
Olamide: Watching all the hard work pay off after our team has dominated the African continent and the world over the years is a blessing and a huge win already.
What do you think of this first class of nominees?
Asake: It is a brilliant, diverse and very necessary first class of nominees. Thank you to the team at the Recording Academy for coming up with this and giving us the reach we deserve.
How do you think this first year of the category will positively affect the industry?
Asake: Every young artist coming up out there can now relate to the fact that their dreams are valid and can now be showcased on the biggest stage in music.
Olamide: The category will greatly impact the industry. African music has exploded globally over the years and will now be exposed on a large scale to the rest of the world.
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How did you feel when you heard about the new best African music performance category?
It’s a significant milestone, not only for me, but for the entire African music industry. It’s a testament to the global recognition and appreciation of the diverse and rich musical traditions coming out of Africa, which I am a part of. This category symbolizes a bridge connecting the world to our continent. [It is] something I have believed in and pushed for, so I couldn’t be prouder to see it come to fruition.
What is it like to be nominated in the category’s historic first class?
It’s an immense honor. It’s like being part of history in the making. This category represents a platform for the incredible diversity and talent within the landscape of African music. It’s a moment of celebration for every African artist who has contributed to our vibrant music scene.
How do you think this first year of the category will positively affect the industry?
[It] is a game-changer for African musicians. It opens up a new world of opportunities for African artists to gain global recognition and reach wider audiences. It will also encourage more collaborations and cultural exchanges within the music industry. This category not only celebrates African talent but also fosters a sense of pride and achievement within the community. It certainly makes the Grammys more accessible to African artists.
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How did you react to “Unavailable,” which features Musa Keys, being nominated?
I was so happy. I feel like this moment was a long time coming for me, and I’m extremely grateful.
How does it feel to not only be nominated but be included in the category’s historic first class?
It feels like further breaking the glass ceiling into the mainstream. Step by step, African influences and artists are getting more shine within the industry, and this feels like another win toward being acknowledged. To be a part of this historic moment is an honor.
What do you think of this first class of nominees?
I think it’s a well-curated group. Obviously, there’s so much talent in the African music community and definitely some other names I’d include, but I look forward to seeing future nominees in this category. And hopefully, more categories specifically for African music will be created in the future, too. This first year will definitely set the tone.
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How did you feel when you heard about the new best African music performance category?
I was quite elated because it shows inclusivity. Beyond being African artists, this category shows that the world is watching and seeing the effort we put in and does not mind giving us our flowers to smell.
How does it feel to not only be nominated for “Rush” but be represented in this category’s historic first class?
It feels iconic. To be doing this at 21? Whew! [It’s so] mind-blowing for me that I sometimes have to pinch myself that it’s all real and I’m not dreaming.
What do you think of this first class of nominees?
I think everyone in this category is badass, and I can only imagine the amount of tough work it took to put together these incredible artists in a category, all truly amazing artists I look up to and I’m proud to be nominated alongside.
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How did you feel when you heard about the new best African music performance category?
Hearing about the new category was very exciting because growing up, I watched the Grammys every year and watched all my favorite artists get awarded and nominated. It was something that I always imagined, and now that there’s a whole category dedicated to African artists, it means so much. I feel like it’s going to open so many more doors for us African artists and introduce our sound and artists to the world.
What is it like to not only be nominated but be included in this category’s first class?
Being nominated for a Grammy is such an honor, but the fact that I’m nominated for the first time in a category that’s an African category [in the year it has] been introduced, I couldn’t have asked for a better moment. I just feel super blessed, happy and excited to attend and enjoy the evening no matter what the outcome is. It’s such a huge moment for Africa, and I’m so happy I get to be a part of it.
Whom will you bring to the Grammys?
You know me. If I could, I would bring all of South Africa — but I’m sure my mama and papa will be there.
This story will appear in the Dec. 16, 2023, issue of Billboard.
When the Recording Academy announced the new songwriter of the year category in 2022, the move was widely praised — and considered a rare win for the songwriting community, which has faced major economic challenges in the streaming and TikTok era.
“With the visibility brought by this award comes power,” says Justin Tranter, one of the five nominees for the honor this year. “The more that people know we exist, the more we can make sure the next generation is taken care of.”
Along with the new category, the academy created a new Songwriters & Composers Wing, helmed by hit-maker and Seeker Music CEO Evan Bogart, to continue expanding its outreach to the songwriter community. “The underpinning of what we do as an academy is built on songs,” Recording Academy CEO Harvey Mason Jr., said when announcing the new award and wing. “I started out as a songwriter myself, so the idea of honoring someone who is truly a professional songwriter and craftsperson is special.”
Though producers and artists often play a role in the songwriting process, the songwriter of the year award has specific rules to ensure that it honors the career songwriters who spend their days working primarily on melodies and lyrics, making it the rare space that formally honors the craft.
“As a songwriter, your job is to serve the artist,” the honor’s inaugural winner, Tobias Jesso Jr., told Grammy.com after his victory. “To have this symbol of ‘Hey, you can be creative as a songwriter and just be a songwriter who doesn’t sing and doesn’t produce, and you can get this prestigious symbol of your gifts that the world will now recognize’ — I think that’s a wonderful thing.”
When Billboard convenes this year’s nominees — a remarkably diverse sampling of today’s foremost hit-makers comprising Tranter, Jessie Jo Dillon, Shane McAnally, Edgar Barrera and Theron Thomas — the five songwriters express similar sentiments to Jesso’s and have an immediate camaraderie in conversation stemming from their shared vocation. “Songwriting is the most important part of a song,” Barrera says, “and it always will be.”
Every Billboard Hot 100 hit starts with the work of songwriters and producers. Though there has been a producer of the year, non-classical award at the Grammys since 1975, songwriters didn’t have their own category until last year. Why is it important that there’s a separate category to specifically honor songwriters?
Edgar Barrera: I do a lot of production, but I start my songs on guitar, and I produce after I have the song. Having a songwriter of the year award is super important because songwriting is the most important thing. Without a song there’s no touring, there’s no production, there’s no artists. There’s nothing.
Theron Thomas: I’ve never seen anybody sing along to a beat. I’m sorry. They don’t. They sing the words. Those lyrics touch people.
Justin Tranter: People say [of] awards that “Oh, it’s just an honor to be nominated.” Sometimes I think that’s bullsh-t, but with these four other nominees, I mean it. These are some of my favorite songwriters, period. To be in this company? Holy f–k!
Justin Tranter, 43. Nominated for: “Gemini Moon” (Reneé Rapp), “Honey! (Are U Coming?)” (Måneskin), “I Want More” (Marisa Davila and the Cast of Grease: Rise of the Pink Ladies), “Jersey” (Baby Tate), “A Little Bit Happy” (TALK), “Pretty Girls” (Reneé Rapp), “River” (Miley Cyrus)
Jenna Peffley
Have you all followed your fellow nominees’ work over the years? If so, is there anything you particularly admire?
Barrera: I’ve actually worked with Theron a lot. He’s the only one I’ve worked with from here. I wish I could work with everyone soon. I’ve been a fan of everyone here. Justin has been a huge inspiration to me, just hearing him talk about songwriters’ rights and everything. Hats off to you, Justin. You’re standing up for all of us. I wish we could all hang out. We all need to get together during Grammy week.
Thomas: Oh, we 100% have to. We got to write a song together.
Shane McAnally: That would be so amazing.
Barrera: That would be pretty interesting, having all the Grammy nominees write together. All different genres.
What moment made you feel like you had made it as a songwriter? Was this songwriter of the year nomination one of those career-defining moments?
McAnally: I don’t think I’ve had that “made it” moment. (Laughs.) I’m kidding. When I was 33, almost 20 years in at that point, I lost my house, lost my car. I was really done. Finally, I had a song recorded by Lee Ann Womack [2008’s “Last Call”], and it gave me this moment of like, “OK, I have a thread to hang on to.” But for me, I really exhaled for the first time when I won a Grammy with Kacey Musgraves [best country album and best country song for 2013’s Same Trailer Different Park and its single “Merry Go ’Round,” respectively]. I remember thinking, “How did this happen? It has fallen apart so many times.” I rode on that wave for a while, but this nomination? I mean, this is really special. This is a moment for me.
I feel so outside of things. Country music is dominating right now, but it’s the artists I don’t work with — Morgan Wallen, Luke Combs and Zach Bryan — so for this nomination to come now is a big deal. There’s a gap in political views for me, with Morgan specifically, and they’re just from a different group. I don’t want to stereotype or lump everyone together, but sometimes you just feel outside while other people are killing it, and to be acknowledged this year, when [my work] wasn’t maybe as commercially obvious as some of my past years, feels amazing. I also feel really good about the integrity of this group of [nominees]. I think I’m really good at this, and I’ve worked my ass off, but it feels really nice to be acknowledged right now.
Tranter: I’m beautifully delusional, and at 15, I was like, “I am the best,” even though that didn’t mean my songs were good; at 15, they were actually quite unlistenable. (Laughs.) But I’ve always been delusionally positive.
There was a moment when my band [Semi Precious Weapons] was ending, and I was considering going back to work in retail. I was with Tricky Stewart, the legendary producer, and he was like, “You’re a really good songwriter. I don’t think you should give up on music just yet.” I was 33, and if you’re in the music business at 33 without any success, it’s starting to look like maybe it is time to pack it up. Having someone like Tricky say that to me was a turning point. I’ll never forget when my first hit, “Centuries” by Fall Out Boy, went No. 2 on iTunes in 2014. I was like, “That’s it. I’ve made it. If this is my life and this is all the success there was, then I am OK with that.”
This year, it has been really special because I intentionally worked on newer artists and wanted to push myself and work on projects where I could really shine lyrically, which is my favorite part of songs. To see that the bulk of my submissions for songwriter of the year are very new artists that the general population is not aware of yet is special.
Jessie Jo Dillon: My dad [Dean Dillon] is a songwriter. He’s in the Country Music Hall of Fame, so I always had a huge complex about him. I was massively insecure. In my first publishing deal, I wrote with Mark Nesler, who wrote many songs I grew up loving. We were leaving the write and he said, “Hey, I just want to tell you something. You’re supposed to be doing this. You just have to trust yourself and keep doing it.” I’ll never forget him saying that. Shane is also one of the first people that told me I was any good, too, and I loved so much of his writing. It has all been other writers that made me feel like I was going to make it.
Jessie Jo Dillon, 36. Nominated for: “Buried” (Brandy Clark), “Girl in the Mirror” (Megan Moroney), “Halfway to Hell” (Jelly Roll), “I Just Killed a Man” (Catie Offerman), “Memory Lane” (Old Dominion), “Neon Cowgirl” (Dan + Shay), “screen” (HARDY), “The Town in Your Heart” (Lori McKenna), “Up Above the Clouds (Cecilia’s Song)” (Brandy Clark)
Noah Needleman
Jessie Jo, your father came up in a very different time in the music business than you. Have you ever talked about the differences in being a songwriter from his generation to yours?
Dillon: I honestly don’t know how to give advice to newer songwriters. It used to be that you’d show up to a publisher and say, “Hey, I’ve been writing these songs. What do you think?” It feels like such a different game to break into now. I worry all the time that true, blue-collar songwriters who are writing every day in Nashville are going away. My dad says the money was much better in, say, the ’90s. Now because of streaming and everything, it’s hard to make ends meet. Maybe I’m being dramatic…
Tranter: No, I think you’re completely right. For me, fighting for songwriters’ rights is so easy because it’s not about me. I’ve had songs that have hit the top five at pop radio, which means my life is fantastic. Because I’m the lucky one, I need to fight for the next generation of songwriters.
I know a few young songwriters who are so talented. Their catalogs have a couple billion streams cumulatively, but one of them is still driving Uber. One is doing OnlyFans. They are doing whatever it takes to survive. If a song doesn’t go to radio, you don’t have much of anything. I think it’s very fair to say that the middle class of songwriters is going to be decimated — and it already is.
Barrera: It is looking really bad. In Latin, there are managers who get songwriting credits [despite not contributing to the songwriting] like it’s normal. It’s disrespectful to us because we write songs as our only source of income, but managers have a lot of other sources. I know a lot of big writers are still struggling. I feel bad for the next generation. I’m 33 years old, and I’ve been looking at all of this transition. Getting a radio single is really one of the only ways to make real money.
Dillon: It makes me sad to think about the next Diane Warren or Bernie Taupin, moving to Los Angeles or Nashville or Miami or New York or wherever, and that they maybe wouldn’t even get a publishing deal or be able to sustain themselves. Sometimes it takes a writer years of development to reach their full potential.
Barrera: There should be a songwriter fee, like there is for a producer. It’s not fair that the producer is the only one to make money from day one.
Thomas: Us talking like we are right now and standing up for each other is so important. I do have some producer friends who stand up for me, too, which I appreciate. They are like, “Yo, make sure you take care of Theron.” Communicating with each other, sticking up for the next generation and setting the standard high for ourselves can make things better. I think [fear of missing out] on a big record is the reason why a lot of executives get away with giving songwriters almost nothing. A lot of us fear missing out on being in the writing room on a big song because we speak up.
Theron Thomas, 41. Nominated for: “All My Life” (Lil Durk featuring J. Cole), “I’ve Been Thinking” (Tyla), “Cheat- back” (Chlöe and Future), “How We Roll” (Ci- ara and Chris Brown), “Make Up Your Mind” (Cordae), “Pretty Girls Walk” (Big Boss Vette), “Seven” (Jung Kook and Latto), “Told Ya” (Chlöe and Missy Elliott), “You and I” (Sekou)
Christopher Ayme
Edgar, what moment made you feel like you had made it as a songwriter?
Barrera: Getting nominated for this Grammy. For me, that’s huge coming from the Latin market. Just getting to make it with Spanish songs. I was like, “What’s going on?” That’s when I realized that music almost has no language, no barriers. We’re a minority part of the music business, and we are changing the game for the Latin community. That’s why it was such an important moment.
Regional Mexican music had an especially big year in 2023, and you played a role in propelling its success. What is it like to be nominated during this pivotal year for the genre in particular, Edgar?
Barrera: I’ve worked with a lot of big names in Latin music, and this year was different because I decided to go back to my hometown [of McAllen, Texas] and support a local act, Grupo Frontera. We grew up together. Where we are from, on the border of Mexico and the U.S., being a songwriter and producer is not even a thing to be in life, you know? Getting the opportunity to support local acts and having them on a song with Bad Bunny, it just doesn’t happen every day. They’re so humble and for me, that’s what I enjoyed the most.
Before this, [Grupo Frontera’s] singer was making fences in McAllen, Texas. The accordion player was selling cows. The percussion player was selling cars. I met all those guys when they performed at a local tire shop for 20 people. Nobody was paying attention to them. They said, “We love what you write. Can you help us out?” And I said, “Of course, why not?” It has been life-changing. This is what is truly important — being part of a movement for regional Mexican with people I grew up with. It’s so full circle.
Edgar Barrera, 33. Nominated for: “Cuestion de Tiempo” (Don Omar), “Falsa Alar- ma (En Vivo)” (Grupo Firme), “Gucci los Paños” (Karol G), “La Despedida” (Christian Nodal), “Mi Ex Tenía Razón” (Karol G), “Que Vuelvas” (Carín León and Grupo Frontera), “Un Cum- bión Dolido” (Christian Nodal), “un x100to” (Grupo Frontera and Bad Bunny), “yo pr1mero” (Rels B)
Natalia Aguilera
Theron, what moment made you feel like you had made it as a songwriter?
Thomas: I moved here with $35 from St. Thomas [in the U.S. Virgin Islands]. I went to Miami, slept on the floor, moved to Atlanta. I [have] never felt like I made it because I always feel like I’m one hit away from having to tell my wife and kids, “It’s over. We’re going back to our first apartment with three kids and two bedrooms.” I am doing really well and money is no issue, but you know what I mean? I don’t want to lie and make something up. I don’t know if I’ve necessarily had [that moment]. I’m just minding my business and continuously working every day.
A couple of you mentioned what an honor it is to be nominated based on true passion projects. How do you balance taking on sessions with big names with great chances at commercial success — but that may not be as creatively fulfilling — and sessions with smaller artists that bring you creativity and joy but likely won’t result in a commercial hit?
McAnally: I’ve done the years of trying to get in every commercial room, and now I really like going with something I’m passionate about. Nobody has any idea what’s going to happen with songs nowadays. New artists can go viral in seconds. Old songs can, too. You just never know.
I have always had the most fun and the most success with things that I saw through from the beginning. I was there right when Kacey Musgraves came to Nashville. I was there when Sam Hunt came to Nashville. I was so enamored with what we were making because it was new, and we didn’t know if they were ever going to have success. I’m trying to get back to that.
Tranter: I was just looking at the Instagram account @indiesleaze, which is all photos from the era my band came up in. It was punk as f–k and gay as f–k. And I thought to myself, “25-year-old me would be so embarrassed [by] half of my catalog,” but hey, I got to make music the whole world has heard and my parents got to retire. I could not be more grateful for the songs that 25-year-old me would be talking sh-t about.
I am in a place now where I want to get back to “Do I f–king love this song?” And listen, I have my hits that I am so proud of, but now I want every single song that comes out from here on out to be something 43-year-old me is proud of and 25-year-old me is proud of, too.
Barrera: I’ve always been involved with artists that are up and coming. Working with big names is enjoyable, too, but for me, giving another song to a big-name artist is not that life-changing. I try to be involved from the beginning. For example, I met Maluma way before he was famous. We started off together. I helped him mold his music. I’ve done that with Christian Nodal and Camilo. I’ve always been involved from the very beginning because I feel like I can experiment a lot more with up-and-coming artists.
Shane McAnally, 49. Nominated for: “Come Back to Me” (Brandy Clark), “Good With Me” (Walker Hayes), “He’s Never Gunna Change” (Lauren Daigle), “I Should Have Married You” (Old Dominion), “Independently Owned” (Alex Newell and Original Broadway Cast of Shucked), “Never Grow Up” (Niall Horan), “Start Somewhere” (Sam Hunt), “Walmart” (Sam Hunt), “We Don’t Fight Anymore” (Carly Pearce and Chris Stapleton)
Robby Klein
You’re an extremely diverse group, hailing from different genres, nationalities, races, genders and sexual orientations. Why is writers’ room diversity important?
Tranter: I just think it’s the right thing to do for humanity, but the way to really understand how important diversity in the writers’ room is [is] to show that it’s great for business. We are trying to make music that the whole world loves. The more diverse your writing room is, the more diverse the audience is going to be that enjoys that music.
I have a rule that I don’t write songs for women without a woman writer in the room. This is not because I’m trying to be a great person; it’s because I know it’s going to be a better song when a woman is writing, capturing her real lived experiences in the world.
How will you be celebrating on Grammy night?
Barrera: I’m going, and I want to see all these guys there. It is not a matter of winning or not. That night, for me, is to meet Shane, Justin, Jessie Jo and hang out with Theron. I’m just here for fun. I think we all deserve a night of fun… or a week, maybe. (Laughs.)
McAnally: I’ll be there this year to celebrate. I bought a suit for the Tonys that wasn’t ready in time, and now I have the perfect place to wear it.
Tranter: I am going for sure. We worked so hard to get nominated. I will be there with my mom and dad. I will look unbelievable. I’m going to have a f–king blast.
Thomas: I’m definitely going. Last year, I won record of the year with Lizzo for “About Damn Time,” [but] they [had] put me in the nosebleeds. I couldn’t go up onstage. When we won, I just cried. Not because I couldn’t go up there, but because I wanted to win so badly. I was so happy, but this year? We’re going to have better seats in that thing! Don’t tell on me, but I might need to sneak a little drink in there, too.
McAnally: I mean, I hope they get us better seats.
Thomas: Honestly, I’m just looking forward to meeting everyone. Last year was the first year they had this award, and I remember saying to myself that I wanted to be in the songwriter of the year category someday. Here I am this year — I’m in it, and I’m in it with you guys. Words can’t really express how this moment feels as a songwriter. To be celebrated on one of the most important nights in music, chosen by our peers. I’m excited about that, period.
This story will appear in the Dec. 16, 2023, issue of Billboard.
In 1970, a genre-bending band from Long Beach, Calif., called War teamed up with Eric Burdon, former singer for The Animals. Eric Burdon Declares “War” included the No. 3 Billboard Hot 100 hit “Spill the Wine,” and the May 2, 1970, Billboard declared Burdon was officially “now a full-fledged soul singer.” After one more album, Burdon collapsed onstage and then left the group, leaving War’s future uncertain. The band’s next album, as well as its first for United Artists (UA), only advanced to No. 190 on the Billboard 200.
The group proved it wasn’t a Cold War when its next album, All Day Music, hit No. 16 on the album chart in 1972. That same year, The World Is a Ghetto established the group — which still performs today with founding member Leroy “Lonnie” Jordan — as a musically fearless funk group that soared even higher without the burden of a famous frontman. The album topped the Billboard 200 on Feb. 17, 1973 — a half-century ago this year.
War Effort
After Burdon left, War waged a marketing blitz — the March 13, 1971, Billboard reported that the campaign “included saturation of trade and underground press with ‘War Is Coming’ ads,” as well as “distribution of 10,000 plastic war helmets to disk jockeys, music writers and key record dealers across the country.”
War Is Declared
The “Soul Sauce” column in the Nov. 11, 1972, Billboard hailed War’s The World Is a Ghetto as the “best new album of the week.” “Sparked by their current single and title cut, War have come up with [an] excellent package that is destined for big sales,” predicted a review in the same issue, citing the 13-minute “City, Country, City” as an “excellent example of talent in the group.”
War Cry
“War is a dynamic act in person and its single of ‘World Is a Ghetto’ on UA continues its quest toward the top,” read a “Hot Chart Action” dispatch in the Feb. 3, 1973, issue. The single would eventually reach No. 7 on the Billboard Hot 100 and No. 3 on what is now the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart. War didn’t stop there — the April 21, 1973, Billboard reported that “The World Is a Ghetto has gone gold for War together with their other United Artists single, ‘Cisco Kid’ ” — which eventually hit No. 2.
Spoils of War
The World Is a Ghetto became “the top pop album of the year,” according to the Dec. 29, 1973, issue, beating out Seals & Crofts’ Summer Breeze, Stevie Wonder’s Talking Book and Carly Simon’s No Secrets. “The well-made AM [radio] hit of today must have impeccable production and great energy,” read an analysis of the album’s success in the same issue. “This War LP was a sterling example of crossover and of the increasing demand for danceable records with free-form Latin rhythms.”
This story originally appeared in the Dec. 9, 2023, issue of Billboard.