Interview
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When Anycia sauntered onto the stage during her sold-out headline show at SOB’s in New York City (March 30), a star had very clearly entered the space. And with a buzzing crowd packed shoulder to shoulder, mingling and vibing through clouds of marijuana smoke, the venue was ready to welcome her like the star she is.
From fan-favorite “BRB” to buzzy collabs like “Splash Brothers” (with Karrahbooo) and the Latto-assisted “Back Outside,” the crowd rapped along to every word of Anycia’s growing catalog, effortlessly emulating the Atlanta emcee’s raspy, blasé tone. At one point, Anycia gave her microphone to a fan, who happened to be a law student traveling from out of state, and she rapped an entire verse bar-for-bar as Anycia looked on in humble shock and glee. A little bit later, another fan surprised Anycia with a bouquet of flowers, which she tearfully and gratefully accepted.
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“They was blowing my mind,” she says of her fans. “It just made me realize like, You really got fans, girl!”
With her debut full-length projects hitting DSPs on Friday (April 25), the ascendant rapper is gearing up for the next phase of her career. Princess Pop That – which features collaborations with Luh Tyler and Cash Cobain – finds Anycia branching out from the Detroit-type beats that characterized her earlier output while still maintaining her authenticity. When Anycia raps, “Beat up the cat ’cause he know I’m a dog/ I turn a prince to a frog/ I turn a frog to a prince/ I’ll leave a n—a on missed call,” on Princess Pop That standout “ATM,” he laid-back tone is somehow both menacing and inviting, a truly intoxicating mixture.
She knows she can take anybody’s man and walk them like a dog, but she doesn’t necessarily feel the need to shout that from the rooftops. If you know, you know – and when it comes to Anycia, everyone will know whether they were seeking that knowledge or not.
After opening up for Veeze last year and kicking off 2024 with her most-viewed music video yet in “Back Outside” (three million hits on YouTube in just three months), Anycia is ready to take her moody e-girl-meets-ATL baddie aesthetic all the way to the top.
In an illuminating conversation with Billboard, Anycia breaks down her three essential Princess Pop That tracks, details how she’s adjusting to her rising fame and reveals what really makes her emotional.
What are three songs that you think are must-listens from Princess Pop That?
“Squeegee,” just because I like the sample on it. I picked it out, it’s “Let’s Get Away” by T.I., it’s very nostalgic for me. It’s already a song that I always listen to, so [I knew I wanted to sample it]. I like to incorporate the s—t that I listen to in the beat or some type of way.
“EAT!” is just a bop to me. Love that song. And working with Kenny [Beats] is always cool. [In the studio], we were just vibing. I had some tacos – I get the same s—t, I had my lil carne asada, some guac with a lil rice and beans and stuff like that – mess my stomach up a lil bit, but I did what I had to do and I made my song and everything was tea! I [also] had some wine, I love cabernet! [Laughs.]
[This] one’s growing on me only because I did an interview and it made me realize, “Wait, I really have never seen no b—h at the bank before for real.” It used to be my least favorite, “ATM,” but it’s growing on me. Chile, I did not like that song. It’s grown on me because I really ain’t never seen nobody that I don’t like at the bank. They be everywhere else in the world: Popeyes, the grocery store, the mall, I ran into a b—h at the damn doctor’s office. I ain’t never run into no b—h that I don’t like at the ATM withdrawing something. I ain’t never seen a b—h inside the bank, I never even drove past no b—h in front the bank! I ain’t never seen them nowhere near no money!
[The studio session for “ATM”] was turnt. I was drunk. I had just went out to eat, I was having a time, chile! Sometimes I freestyle, it depends on how I feel. I had some shots, so a b—h was freestylin’, you know how we get, chile.
You’ve said that you’ve always been doing music in your life, but you tried to take it seriously in 2022. What are your earliest musical memories?
I used to go to a Christian School, and it was a concert – now that I think about… it might’ve been a little racist! Because why did y’all make me the rapper? Then I had to think about it, like, Maybe it’s not racist. I was always singing and doing stuff in class, so they made me the rapper. They had me in a puffer jacket with the fur on it in Atlanta around Easter time! It was pretty hot!
So, I just rapped about God. It was like my own little solo. That’s why I feel like… he know that I made that song for him! That’s why I’m getting all the blessings I’m getting.
What do you remember listening to in the house?
I grew up with girls, my mom and my grandma, and they both are completely different. My grandma would be listening to Sam Cooke and Luther Vandross and Teena Marie, stuff like that. My mom would be listening to Crime Mob, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Field Mob, Ciara, Cherish, so I grew up on that. My mom’s from California, so she got a West Coast vibe and the girl’s just cultured, she’s musically inclined.
How do you thinking growing up in a household of women shaped you into who you are today?
With the women that I was brought up around, they really just taught me to embrace myself 100%. No matter the situation, always be comfortable with yourself. Like I said, my grandma and my mama are the complete opposite, so I get completely different opinions on s—t and we still like that now. They’ve always taught me to remain in tune with myself, really just how to be a f—king woman, how to stand your ground, how to understand every dynamic of a woman, how to enjoy your woman experience no matter what the f–k is going on. And no matter what, just to give it 100%.
Have they ever given you notes or advice on music or your career at all?
No. Even if they did, I’d take it with a grain of salt — because I’ve always been one of those people that got to bump my own head to figure some s—t out. Can’t nobody tell me what the f—k because I feel like it’s different strokes for different folks, your story is not the next person’s story. I do take advice. I’m learning to take advice from people that have actually been in those [situations]. You know parents love to put their 1-2 in! You tryna give me a 1-2 and you ain’t even had that 1 yet. Just let me do what I do, and you just support.
Nobody really sounds like you. How did you develop your rap voice and your flow?
In the beginning, I used to be trying to do little melodic type s—t. Just dibbling and dabbling in some bulls—t. But, at one point in time, I just realized… B—h, just talk.
Last winter you put out your debut EP, Extra. How would you describe your growth from that project to Princess Pop That? What are some of the biggest lessons you learned since putting out your first project?
Nothing really musically. I just be doing my lil thing. I get into different bags with myself. I learned how to adapt to different s–t. Let me learn how to get in different bags and step out my element but still be myself. Before, I felt like people was putting me in a box: Detroit type beats. That’s not a problem, but my biggest thing is I want to be just me. I just want to be in my own lane. I don’t want nobody on the same street with me. This is my street, I’ll come over there when I come over there. It’s private, gated community. [Laughs.]
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We got Kevin Durant, Drake, and Latto — you’re entering your debut album era with some massive co-signs. Which one meant the most to you and who’s given you the best advice about this whole music thing?
Ain’t nobody gave me no advice. Everybody’s given me support. I don’t really look for advice. I’m not vulnerable with people unless we’re close. I don’t make you feel like I need any advice. If anything, I want you to be looking to me like, “B—h what can I do to be like you?” I don’t give a damn who it is!
I’d say Latto is my favorite [co-sign]. She’s such a girl’s girl, and we had fun shooting the [“Back Outside”] music video. I met her at her birthday party prior to that. The girls really be my favorite to me.
You recently toured with Veeze, who had his own breakout moment last year. What did you take away from that experience?
Before [the Veeze tour], I would be so nervous. I still do be a little nervous, but now it’s better because I know people are starting to get the gist of what’s going on. Like [at] SOB’s, people are coming to see me. For the Veeze tour, I was still fresh. It was different states that we were going to, that I literally was finna s—t bricks backstage — like, Is these people gonna boo me? I used to worry about that.
I learned that no matter what room we step in, no matter what performance I do, even if they don’t know me, the whole goal is to make sure that they know me before they leave.
What was it like when you got that call to open for him?
It be certain s—t that hit me like, “OK, this is really going on!” But, for the most part, I was just thinking about… where we was finna be at. Like responsibility s—t. I was nervous about performing, but I wasn’t [screaming] or anything like that.
Is there ever a moment where something happens and you are screaming and jumping?
Not screaming and s—t, [but] I got emotional at SOB’s. All this s—t is very intimate to me. A lot of stuff excites me, but not for real. The smallest things mean so much to me. I cried at SOB’s because I was surrounded by people [who] have been with me a while. Them flowers? Chile, that was the lead for the first tear. One of the women that work with me, she got me a custom lil letterman jacket with “sold out show” on the back, I just bust out in tears, chile, I was so emotional. But I cleaned it up real good after that!
How do you stay grounded with all of these big career changes?
It’s not easy at all. I wouldn’t even sit here and be like I’m all the way around it. It’s s—t that irritates the f—k out of me every day. Business s–t, you know what I’m saying? I get overwhelmed, I won’t say aggravated or irritated. I have a lot to do. This is what I decided to do, you ain’t really going to get no sleep like that. But it’s definitely tea!
It’s [less] being grounded and [more] learning how to do what you got to do and go with that and still incorporate being you and not losing sight of what the f—k the bigger picture is. Like if I don’t want to do something, I’m not gonna do it. If I don’t like something, I’m gonna say I don’t like it. I’m open to how the f—k you feel, or why you think I should do it, but if I don’t want to do something, it’s always myself first.
When it comes to creating your stage show, do you have anybody you look up to?
Sometimes I don’t even know what the f—k I’m going to do before I get on that motherf—ker! I don’t know what it is. Truth be told, I go to rehearsal, I get up by the stage, I get the bubble guts and then everything just goes out my mind. I’ll step on the stage and see the people and my stomach starts hurting. I be like, Oh, s—t, they really pulled up. I feel like a scary b—h that didn’t really want to fight for real. The scary b—h that dopped the addy and didn’t think they was really gonna come. I be backstage like, They gon beat my a— bro!
And then you gotta go out there, cause your mom in the back, like, You brought these b—hes to my house! They just paid gas money and s–t, I got to get out there. So, it just clicks. Sasha Fierce! I get up out there and something takes over and we just start rocking out.
[At] Rolling Loud, I had a mental f—king breakdown on the plane. I got mad when I got to the to the damn hotel room. I was being a b—h, then I just broke down. See, that’s what happens with me. I’ll be a b—h, and then I turn into a b—h for real. I’ll be a b—h, and after all the bulls—t, all it takes is one person around me to be like, “What’s up?” and I’ll break down in tears. Then we have a nice little pep talk and we back into action. But I was on that plan laughing and crying with the f—king wine taking pictures. I took selfies of me crying!
How was performing at Rolling Loud?
It was cool. My mom got to see me, that was her first time ever being able to see me before. I had to make sure it was a special show because she is a hard cookie to crumble, baby. I couldn’t just bring her to a regular show. I had to bring her to Rolling Loud. She was excited, she got a shirt and everything. That was the best part for me, my mom seeing me.
And the people out there, I didn’t think that they would be there for me. I underestimate myself in some circumstances. It just hasn’t completely clicked all the way. It’s clicking, don’t get me wrong, but it’s crazy because I’m literally being myself.
What are those moments where it really started to click for you?
It be the most random times, like when I’m doing some s—t where I didn’t expect nobody to see me. I was in the flea market getting one of my grills made, and there was a young woman with her mother. First of all, I was going to pass out, period. I am anemic and I hadn’t ate. I was waiting on the lady to change my phone case, and I was getting really lightheaded. I had on a damn windbreaker jogger suit! [Laughs.]
So, I’m leaning on the damn stool and this lady come over like, “Hey, are you Anycia?” And I’m still adjusting [to fame]! Normally, a b—h ask you what’s your name or who you is at 285 Flea Market, I don’t know whether to say yes or no! So, I’m like… this b—h finna beat my a–. She gon knock me clean the f—k out. Then she like, “My daughter over there, and she shy!” I look over and the daughter over there [hiding]. She wanted to take a picture, so I [got myself together]. All of that was random!
But for real, I be forgetting I can’t go outside with my wig all the way back. I can’t go outside with a bald cap on no more!
When it comes to fan interaction like how do you navigate that? How’s that relationship developed over time?
It really wasn’t a development thing! I’ve always been a person that likes to break the ice and command a room. I’ve always felt [that with] being a leader, you determine the room. Whoever tags along, tags along. Whoever don’t, is not meant to be in my world. I’ve always been a people person, but I don’t like who I don’t like.
Who’s on your Mount Rushmore of rap?
1, me. 2, me. 3, me and 4, me. But the way it has to be set up, it’s different styles that I done did. Some cute braids, cornrows, 30-inch bust down straight down the middle — and then the next one just gon be me being the baddest b—h I can possibly be.
What’s your favorite rap album?
Probably Princess Pop That.
What are your top five songs ever?
“Big Body” by Anycia. “BRB” by Anycia. “Back Outside” by Anycia. “EAT!,” it’s also by Anycia too. And “Squeegee” by Anycia.
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Normani might as well be talking to herself on new single “1:59” when she purrs, “don’t talk too much, just do this s–t.” Sure, in the context of the collab with Gunna that dropped on Friday (April 26) the focus is on get-down-to-business pillow talk. But the sexy refrain could just as well be channeling the thoughts of fans who’ve been waiting nearly six years for the former Fifth Harmony star to drop her full-length solo debut since that fateful day in 2018 when she tweeted, “I have my album title y’all.”
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“Just do this s–t!” you can hear them yelling after the string of singles she’s released since leaving FH in 2018, including her Billboard Hot 100 No. 9-charting solo debut with Khalid, “Love Lies.” Then there was her No. 7 2019 collab with Sam Smith on “Dancing With a Stranger,” that year’s irresistible “Motivation” and Charlie’s Angels soundtrack song “Bad To You” with Ariana Grande and Nicki Minaj, as well as songs with Megan Thee Stallion (2020’s “Diamonds”) and Cardi B (2021’s “Wild Side”) and Calvin Harris (2022’s “New to You” with Tinashe and Offset) in the time since.
But still, no album… until the singer announced the title in February, Dopamine, and teased the riding-a-rocket-in-a-leather-bikini-cover, and then, on Friday, finally, the release date: June 14.
“I know what it’s like to put out music and records that I don’t wholeheartedly believe in. When we were in [Fifth Harmony], we didn’t have the opportunity to have a real opinion until the last project we did,” the singer tells ELLE in a new cover story that details how her plans to release the LP — which at one point was called 1906 for the address of her grandmother’s house where she was raised, then Butterfly Effect — was serially delayed in part due to her parents being diagnosed with cancer; they are both doing better now.
Pile on what the profile describes as heartbreak, “intense, unwarranted internet scrutiny” and a fight for creative control early in her career and you can easily understand the delay.
“I promised myself, ‘If God gives me another opportunity to do things in my own way, I’m not going to take that for granted,’” she says of the collection described as mixing uptempo dance tracks with songs exploring those struggles during and after 5H’s split. “I think that there’s a false narrative that because of how long this process has taken, that means I don’t care, or that means I’m more interested in doing other things than putting this body of work out. Nobody wants this project to come out more than me. I think that at the end of the day, if I stand behind this wholeheartedly, it doesn’t matter what the world thinks.”
To put a finer point on it, she says, “this body of work really is just a representation of my resilience.”
One of the key parts of the album cycle so far has been the outpouring of support she got when she announced the album earlier this year, especially from her former 5H bandmates: Camila Cabello, Ally Brooke, Lauren Jauregui and Dinah Jane. “This is a milestone, knowing everything that I went through in order to just get to this point. I wanted to be present in that and not allow any negative comments,” she tells the magazine. “I really wanted to just celebrate myself. In terms of the support from the girls, that’s really full circle, to be quite honest. We were put in very unrealistic circumstances. We did our absolute best with what we had, but I think that it’s really cool to just see everybody prosper. It was cool that that moment [for me] could also be a moment that could bring us all together.”
She says the album title is a representation of the “highs and lows” she’s endured, while the rocket-straddling cover feels “energetic… it feels like a hit.”
Asked how she feels about the state of women, especially Black women, in music right now, Normani turns to hers, and many others’, north star: Beyoncé. “I want to see more women in charge. I want to see more Black women as chairmen. I want to see more Black women as CEOs,” she says. “I want to see more Black women produce. I know that all of those exist, but it’s just about getting the opportunity and the recognition.”
Normani specifically points to Bey “taking over the country space” with her Cowboy Carter album, which she dubs “revolutionary… Those are the types of things that I set out to do. Now you have country artists who look like us coming out and just being like, ‘We’ve always been here.’ I think that it’s educational not only for music lovers, but also in the Black community. We’ve pioneered a lot that we don’t get recognition for. I think that it’s just really cool being able to witness Beyoncé be fearless and do something that is much bigger than herself. That’s honestly what I want to see more of in every single space of the music industry, because we deserve that. I also want to see Black women not have to fight so hard. It gets exhausting. We’re just as brilliant. We have amazing ideas, and our resilience.”
Listen to “1:59” below.
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Two weeks ago, FloyyMenor and Cris MJ made history as the first Chileans to enter the top 10 on Billboard‘s Hot Latin Songs chart since La Ley and Ednita Nazario’s “Tu Sabes Bien” did so 25 years ago. The only other Chilean artist to have reached similar heights was Myriam Hernández with 1998’s “Huele a Peligro,” which peaked at No. 5. This week, the emerging pair catapulted to No. 1, dethroning Xavi’s months-long reign with “La Diabla.”
The song making waves is “Only Gata,” a sly reggaetón number about online flirtation. According to Luminate, the viral track registered 11.11 million official U.S. streams, a 33% gain from the previous week. That landed them a No. 34 debut on the Streaming Songs chart and gave them a second week atop the Latin Streaming Songs chart. “Gata Only” also occupies No. 48 on the Hot 100. Last week it was at No. 74.
But how did two relatively unknown Chilean artists manage to not only break through on the global music scene but also clinch the top spot on the Hot Latin Songs chart? The success story begins with some strategic planning, innovative marketing and a dash of serendipity.
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Initially, FloyyMenor was a mysterious figure circulating online who had scored a few local hits. His identity was obscured and the art on his early YouTube releases was composed of car imagery, never revealing his face. “You needed to go to the nightclubs to see him,” says Adrian Mainou, artist marketing manager of Latin/U.S. at UnitedMasters.
The Latin team at UnitedMasters had been monitoring the Chilean music scene, having signed Nicko G over two years ago and being fans of Paloma Mami and Polimá Westcast. When the company’s Latin A&R lead, Gerardo Mejía — a music veteran with 30 years of experience and a former rapper/singer originally from Ecuador — began scouting the country’s music scene in the summer of 2023, he encountered FloyyMenor performing live and was captivated by the young artist’s unique appeal and the audience’s enthusiastic response.
“This kid was packing venues [with audiences] singing lyric after lyric,” recalls Mejía. At the time, FloyyMenor’s big local hit was “pa la europa,” while “Gata Only” was just a song people knew from his live shows and online teasers. Eager to sign the promising talent, Mejía had to wait until Floyy turned 18 in December.
After the signing, UnitedMasters released “Gata Only” in December — and the song began gaining traction within the first week and a half of its release. Not long after, Cris MJ — a Chilean act who had gained recognition from Karol G’s remix of “Una Noche en Medellín” featured in Mañana Será Bonito (Bichota Season) — reached out to Floyy, expressing his love for the song and his desire to be part of it.
As Mejía recalls: “When I got back to Chile in January, [Floyy] called me and said, ‘Cris MJ loves the song.’ I said, ‘Cool. We’ll do the remix.’ He said, ‘No. He loves the song so much he wants to be the original.’ I was like, ‘My brother, if Cris MJ calls you, then get on it with their teams and go record.’ We pulled down the original and waited maybe two weeks before we released it [on Feb. 2] with Cris MJ, and the rest is history.”
In a conversation with Billboard, Mejía and Mainou provided an in-depth look at the strategic rise of “Gata Only” to the top of the Hot Latin Songs chart. See below for the full interview.
The accomplishment alone as the first Chilean acts to make the top 10 of the Hot Latin Songs chart in 25 years is already very impressive, then to top the chart at No. 1. How does that happen?
Adrian Mainou: It was a very interesting and entertaining build up. [After we officially released it], we saw social growth and began working with a press team in Chile. It was a no-brainer to see the movement on TikTok and that we needed to lean into this. So I activated the first phase of influencers with Kono Sur [marketing y diseño]. We pushed [the song] in Chile, Argentina, and Ecuador, and we were able to see a lot of reactions on YouTube from those countries. Once we saw that, we had Floyy go to Argentina and do some shows while pushing press and [involving] influencers. For an artist coming out of Chile, having the Argentina push is a very cool look; it’s a very important country to connect with. For Floyy, it was pretty easy. He loves Argentinian culture. He got in on a Monday, did a show that same Tuesday, and by Thursday it was No. 1 on Spotify Argentina.
[Publicist] Cris Nova then joins the team [and he] was able to paint the narrative with press across socials, streaming and [seeing] the bigger perspective. At this point, we activate a second phase of influencers in Mexico, who helped us create more noise. [Mexico is] the third country in his top demographic at the moment.
Activating influencers. Please explain.
Mainou: We looked at lip-synching which fueled social media content. Then we looked into dance challenges. This is where we can start connecting with other countries and going global. We moved from lip-synching to the dance challenge [because] we knew it’s an easier thing for people in other countries to tap into.
We saw a couple of fan [pages] chiming into this. It was key to leverage from this and create new [dance challenges]. We were like, “Let’s take advantage of that and work with them.” We collaborated with fan accounts on TikTok, being like, “Yo, let’s work together. Put this [song] up.” At the end of the day, it’s content that they’re pushing on an organic level.
Once we got into Mexico, it was a no-brainer to start activating DJs for the song. We did that across Colombia, Argentina, Chile, Miami, targeting different demographics. We were able to get data on Spotify, Apple Music and YouTube. That puts us on this new level, and the song started translating into the U.S., and it was going crazy in the U.S.
FloyyMenor is a relatively unknown artist. What is your thought process when attempting to break an unknown act into the U.S.?
Mainou: This is an independent artist, so I don’t have a lot of money. How can we take advantage of what we’re doing? I connected with the digital team to give me Mexico influencers [whose] second-biggest demographic is in the U.S. With that mindset, I can pay for the influencer Mexico fee. Then it caught U.S. growth; [Mexican influencers] have a very strong presence in U.S. Latin culture. That can cover almost every big Latin influencer in the U.S. doing the song without us having to pay. We saw the song growing to almost 20 million streams on Apple, and from that a large portion came from the U.S. That took me into this current new position where I’m starting to push specifically the U.S. The song is already here, and we know it’s [playing] in nightclubs, people doing remixes, and the DSPs are supporting. He’s gotten [on] pretty much every single cover [of official playlists on] DSPs, and social support. We’ve seen artists [using] the audio [on social media], from Kenia Os to Shadi and Malu Trevejo…as well as Trapeton, Trap House Latino, etc.
Why do you think “Gata Only” is resonating with the masses?
Mejía: The lyrics talk about TikTok, about likes, about following. I think that he hit something that resonates with the kids. To top it off, it’s such a great melody. And having Cris MJ never hurts.
Mainou: The sound is very particular. I’ve become a very big fan of the Chilean sound from “Ultra Solo” [by Polimá Westcoast and Paloma Mami] a couple years ago, and from working with Nicko G. I think the production is very Chilean, [combined] with very good vocals and great analogies.
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What is UnitedMasters doing different than other management and agency companies?
Mejía: At UnitedMasters, our mission is to be a tool for the artists and get them wherever they wanna get. We work with independent artists, and that has some challenges around it. Not all of them have managers, nor friends that can make them music videos; not all of them have a studio that they can record music at. We sat down with Floyy, we were able to not only get to know him but make him look at the bigger picture. We told him, “This is what we can do with you if you trust us, if you listen to us. This is where we can take you.” It’s about sitting down with the artists, understanding their needs, and being able to make a plan around it, creating a timeline.
The Summer of Slizzy is upon us.
As soon as the weather starts to get nice, New York City becomes a playground. People from all walks of life are seemingly outside eating, drinking, smoking and blasting music. And one song that’s sure to be in heavy rotation this summer is Cash Cobain’s “Fisherrr” featuring Bay Swag. You already hear the song coming from cars as they pass by, or being used in countless Instagram Reels and TikToks, usually accompanied by its official dance, The Reemski.
Cash has teased the track on social media, feeding fans little bites here and there, but it wasn’t until he and Bay performed the song on the YouTube series From the Block that the song took off. The Instagram clip and the YouTube video each have one million views and the song currently has 3.6 million plays on Spotify. There’s also whispers of a “Fisherrr” remix being in the works with a certain New York City superstar. I’ll let you work out who that may be for yourself.
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With the song of the summer already locked down, Cash Cobain has the city on smash. I was one of the hundreds of people waiting in line for almost two hours to get into his Irving Plaza show on April 1. The lines wrapped around the block and the anticipation was intoxicating. The air was buzzing with rumors of a Drake appearance, and questions about what the hell was taking so long while little clouds of weed smoke popped up like NYC chimneys in the wintertime.
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The NYPD was deep out there, too, but they didn’t bother anybody until the crowd grew impatient and tried to bumrush the entrance. That’s when the venue officially shut Slizzyfest down and Cash took all those remaining outside up the street to Union Square Park for an impromptu performance. Hip-hop started with park jams, so it’s dope to see a younger artist like Cash carry on the tradition. Being able to control a crowd is the definition of a true MC.
I was talking to my tax guy who’s based in Atlanta as I was putting the finishing touches on this interview when he asked me what I was working on. I mentioned Cash Cobain, and he started laughing. He then sent me a screenshot of him listening to the Cash Cobain and Bay Swag performance on Hot 97’s Funkmaster Flex show. When an accountant living in another part of the country is up on you, it’s safe to say you’re on the way to becoming a star.
Billboard spoke with April’s R&B/Hip-Hop Rookie of the Month about making sexy music, working with the likes of Drake and Frank Ocean, plus much more.
How does it feel to have the song of the summer already? I feel like “Fisherrr” is only getting bigger. That From the Block video took it to another level.
It feels amazing. It feels like a moment. We haven’t had a real movement in New York in a little minute.
The energy outside of your show at Irving Plaza was electric. It’s hard to put into words, but I haven’t felt that type of excitement outside of a show in NYC in a long time. Did feeling the love from the fans outside make you want to take them up the street to Union Square Park?
They canceled my show, so I just wanted to give them something. I wanted to be seen. I was upset and decided to go outside, and everyone started gathering around me, so I started walking. I didn’t even realize Union Square Park was that close. As I’m walking, I was like, “Nah, I need to stand up or something, I need to be seen, I need some music.” You know Manhattan got them long ass blocks, so I see like a park. It was perfect. We had a good time, and nobody got hurt.
After Slizzyfest got shut down after fans started fighting outside Cash Cobain proceeded to shepherd 100+ fans to the park and now we’re doing karaoke pic.twitter.com/2C9h1nA8g6— no bells (@nobellsblog) April 2, 2024
Let’s talk about the dance that’s been going viral: The Reemski. La La Anthony and her son did a video and so has former NBA guard Lance Stephenson. That’s when I knew “Fisherrr” was different. Were you going to do that dance during your set?
Yeah, once a song gets a dance, it’s outta here. I be trying to do the dance, but I don’t know, I have to be in the mood.
Can you describe Sexy Drill? Did you come up with that name?
Everything gotta be sexy. I like sexy s–t. Chow Lee and Lonny Love really put Sexy Drill on the map.
You and Bay Swag were on Hot 97 with Funkmaster Flex recently, which got some mixed reactions. Was that a big deal for you growing up in NYC?
Flex? Hell yeah. The radio, period. It wasn’t a freestyle, though, it was more like a performance. We be saying little slick s–t in our raps, it may sound like we’re playing around, but when you say some slick s–t, you might catch someone’s attention.
Flex seemed into it. That s–t was funny because he was making funny faces after certain lines.
He was like, “I understand it, I don’t need to see it twice. Y’all some nasty motherf—kers.”
You and Bay are like horny Jada & Styles with the back and forth. Your lyrics are always raunchy. Why are you so horny?
[Laughs.] That’s just who I am for real. I wanna f—k all day.
I should use that as the headline: “Cash Cobain Wants to F—k All Day.“
That’ll go viral.
I’m not sure if people realize how versatile you are. You’ve worked with PinkPanthress. How did that link up happen?
The managers did what they do. The managers were managing and managed to get us in the studio. We linked in LA in person, man, we were just cookin’ up, vibin’, talkin’ and stuff. That was my first time meeting her.
You guys have similar styles, so it makes sense.
Yeah, and I didn’t know she made her own beats. So, when I locked in with her, she was like, “Let me hop on the keys right quick” and I was like, “Huh, what? You make beats?” And she was like, “Yeah, I make all my stuff.”
You guys plan on working together in the future?
Of course. I want her on my album.
Speaking of albums…i s “Fisherrr” the lead single?
Nah, that’s for my Play Cash Cobain EP that should be coming out soon. “Dunk Contest” is going to be on there too, along with some other songs like “Candle” and “Act Like.”
Ok, so is Drake going to be on the EP or the album?
[Laughs.] He made the album cover for the EP, though!
Cover art for the upcoming Play Cash Cobain EP.
There were rumors that he was supposed to pop out at your show in New York.
I don’t know about no rumors. He was already in town. He had a show [in] Long Island, and he posted the picture I’m using as the cover, so people put two and two together.
So, what’s next for you?
I have the Play Cash Cobain EP coming up and we’re just going to keep dropping music. We got some placements on the way.
Anything you can talk about?
Travis Scott. Me and Don Toliver were in the studio, we got some crazy sh—t coming. Me and Boat [Lil Yachty] are about to come out with some sh-t. And I should be doing something with Frank Ocean soon, too. He really f—ks with my music.
How do you envision your wave taking over the city once the weather breaks? Because I’ve predicted that a Slizzy Summer is in our future.
Aight, boom, we been outside. I don’t care if it’s summer, winter, we been outside odee. So, for Slizzy Summer I wanna do like a Slizzy pool party vibe, like Freaknik. We gonna call that s–t Slizznik. I wanna do a summertime show outside. I wanna make things like slizzy this, slizzy that. I just wanna have fun, I don’t want nobody to get hurt.
So, you definitely plan on doing another show in New York soon to make up for this last one?
Yeah, ASAP.
The ladies love your music. You’re putting fat boys back in style like Biggie did. Was he someone you grew up listening to?
Biggie was the first rapper I was introduced to. I listen to a lot of Biggie, Aaliyah, and Michael Jackson. I really love 50 Cent too. I grew up listening to everything: Hip-Hop, R&B, like old R&B. I’ve been listening to “Me and Mrs. Jones” by Billy Paul. You know? Meeting at the same spot at the same time every day. My grandparents and parents had all those CDs like Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson’s greatest hits.
How about on the production side of things? How did you come up with this sound?
Trap and Drill really inspired me, but I wanted to add my own flavor. I didn’t want to bite guys like Southside and Metro. I didn’t want to capitalize off a Metro-type beat. I wanted to come up with my own flavor.
How do you decide on certain samples to use?
Things catch me. I can be in the elevator and hear a song, or be watching a movie, and if I like the song or hear a part that I can use, I would Shazam it. I find things when I’m listening to music on YouTube. It could be familiar songs or unfamiliar songs.
Who taught you how to make beats?
I’m self-taught, just f—kin’ around on FruityLoops. I always wanted to make beats, though. It was the perfect match, I just had to figure it out. I was confident because my mom used to buy me drum pads, Yamahas, and s—t like that.
And what made you rap about the things that you rap about? I was surprised to see the NYPD outside of your show so deep because you don’t make that type of music.
Because I know n—as that rap about street s–t and are dead p—y. [Laughs.] They dead soft. I’m going to be true to myself. I’m not trying to incriminate myself. I have made rap songs like that, but this is what I wanna do. I wanna play autotune, I wanna sing, I wanna melodize, I want it to be sexy.
You want to be a heartthrob and not a thug.
I wanna be slizzy.
Can you define “slizzy” for the people?
Freedom. Judgement free. Doing what you want to do and not caring what anyone else thinks. It’s just a way of life. That’s how I got to where I’m at right now. Not caring about what anybody thinks.
OK, last question. Are you a Pelle Pelle model?
Yeah, shouts to my big brother Chris, he be lookin’ out for me. We’re working on a few things actually.
Ryan Trey – who burst onto the scene with 2018’s LeBron James-cosigned “Mutual Butterflies” — is a new man. Sort of. The ascendant R&B crooner is in a transitional period as he begins to wrap up his current era and start working on a new LP.
Last winter (Nov. 3, 2023), Trey dropped his latest project, Streets Say You Miss Me, an evocative collection of decidedly post-Bryson Tiller rap-inflected R&B through which he processes the demise of a relationship. “I was upset with a lot of things, a lot of toxic energy that I’m not really a fan of,” he says. “Even though I love the songs, some of them are hard for me to listen to. I’m gonna move on from that place.”
Featuring guest appearances from next-generation R&B and rap artists such as NoCap and Vory, Streets Say You Miss Me cultivates a world of contemporary R&B where raw emotional vulnerability and moody drum-heavy beats are the name of the game. In support of the record, Trey joined Billboard-charting R&B singer Mariah the Scientist – who provides guest vocals on the single “Ain’t Even Friends” — on her To Be Eaten Alive tour as her support act. With performances at Lollapalooza and Broccoli City Festival on the horizon, Trey is honing his live show and, in turn, using that new knowledge to inform the direction of his new music.
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“Those are the dope things I’m learning about music,” he notes. “This may have sounded great in the studio and it’s still a great song, but it’s really tough to perform. So, what my next project is really catered [to] is what works live.”
Last week (March 27), Trey dropped the deluxe version of his album, titled Streets Say You Still Miss Me. Although he’s “not a fan” of deluxe editions, he views these three new songs as fan service than genuinely retreading the darkness of the standard album. “I’m just removed from it all, I feel like I’ve grown,” he muses. “But I still [think] about what my fans like.”
In an illuminating conversation with Billboard, Ryan Trey sounds off on the utility of deluxe editions, the rise of fans leaking artists’ unfinished music, exploring his faith and how Justin Bieber’s Journals album is influencing his new music. In addition, at the end of our discussion, the “2 Live” singer-songwriter shares the stories behind the new bonus tracks on Streets Say You Still Miss Me.
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You mentioned that you weren’t a fan of deluxe albums. How do you look at the purpose and the function of a deluxe album now? Has your opinion on them changed since putting out your own?
I just feel like you finished the album for a reason. [I] said everything I have to say right now. I’m not opposed to it, because I trust my team — I got great management, and it’s all about keeping momentum, especially as a new artist. But it’s tough because [Streets Say You Miss Me] was about a specific person. I was going through a specific feeling, [and] this album is really dark for me. So, when it comes to the deluxe, I was like, “Damn, I gotta go back in and put myself back in this mind space that I’m not in anymore.” That’s when I started going through my old songs, like, “What can I clean up and what do my fans like?” I never go in and try to make new songs to fit the rest of the album.
I really don’t like deluxes. I like my deluxe, I just don’t like the concept of it. Once you’re doing something, you’re done. That’s like Pablo Picasso painting something and you ask him to go back and add to it because “Man, people love this a lot!” It’s a catch-22 — it’s beneficial too, I’m happy the songs are out.
When it came to trying to record new songs for the deluxe, was the issue an emotional one or a musical one? Or some combination of the two?
That was a heartbreak album. I wasn’t in the best place maturity-wise [given] the way I went about a certain relationship. The whole Streets Say You Miss Me [album] was like, “I hurt you, but you also did this.” I always say this album was like a bunch of excuses. There’s a lot of toxicity in that album. I’m in a place now where I’m not a fan of the toxic stuff, I’m just angry at myself and her. To heal from that and learn from it, you gotta go back into this place of excuses. It’s tough because I don’t feel like that anymore. I feel like I’m more God-fearing now, I’m getting my faith right. The whole toxic thing is a dark place to be.
What sparked this reconnection with your faith?
Just reaping what you sow. I feel like I’d be a great girl dad. I always say I want a daughter and I want to be married and I want certain things. I just know it only gets worse from here. The way our generation is… all this toxicity going on and everybody just f—king everybody. I feel [that] especially in rap, the industry will do that to you. I turned 25 a week ago, I started making music when I was 19. I feel like a lot of my innocence got taken away being in this industry, being in these clubs, being around all these different environments.
So, when I met somebody I actually liked, I didn’t know how to take care of her. Now I’m in a place of killing off that version of myself. God doesn’t bless you if you in mess and moving around talking to all these different girls and that nonsense. It’s kind of like, what are you chasing? That stuff gets old, I don’t want to be like that. I feel like a lot of my peers — like, no disrespect to them — they’re just not happy. It’s a lot of my favorite artists have everything and they’re not happy. I don’t want to be like that.
You’ve been on tour for most of this year. How’s that been?
That’s been great. Shoutout Mariah [the Scientist], man. She’s a really dope artist because she took a chance on another artist. It be a lot of egos in this s—t. Atlanta being Atlanta, we met through people I knew who went to school with her sister. The “Ain’t Even Friends” record I did, I didn’t hear anybody else but her on it. She sent [her verse] back and then we stayed in touch, started seeing each other in certain places, and then they asked me to do the tour. It’s dope because she’s putting new artists on. She didn’t have to. She could have went and got anybody.
How do you think your live show has developed over the past few years?
More interaction and working the stage. I’ve had stage training and all that stuff since then. Talking in between songs, too. That’s the most scary thing that’s associated with stage fright. Like, what do you say in between songs? With the Mariah tour, I’m in a place where 80% of people don’t know me, so I make sure the 20% that do feel loved.
You noted that one of the deluxe tracks was “a long-awaited leak.” From Ariana Grande to SZA, there have been a lot of artists speaking out against leak culture and fans who participate in it. What’s your take?
I think it’s selfish. But I don’t ever expect a fan to think like that. I always say, artists gotta do what they gotta do. You’ll never hear Beyoncé‘s—t leak. Drake s—t leak all the time. Artists gotta do what they gotta do, from NDAs all the way down to who has the hard drive. You got to know where your records are. You can’t leave stuff in the studio. You can’t leave it on iCloud – I just don’t like things like that. I know producers and artists that don’t use iCloud if you know fans are going to do that. It’s not new, but we have to deal with it.
You’re slated for a few festivals this summer; how do you think this most recent tour has prepared you for that? Do you approach tours and festivals differently?
Take Rolling Loud, for example. They’re just now introducing R&B on an actual platform, so shout out Rolling Loud because that’s dope. Before, for the past 6-7 years, that is a rap festival. The first time I did Rolling Loud, it was tough because nobody [was] there to hear my type of sound. This time, there were way more people than last time, but they also did a better job of pushing R&B.
With festivals, you’re always gaining new fans. That’s the difference between me doing my own show and doing festivals. Maybe it feels different for headliners, but for where I’m at, getting the performance part is important. I can’t just hold the mic out when I’m doing shows that aren’t mine. I saw people complaining about Drake’s tour, debating that he’s not actually singing the songs. But then you got artists like SZA, for example — a lot of her fans love the new live versions she does. I feel like when you’re headlining, you can play around with stuff how you want. When you are new, people got to know what the record sounds like so they can go find it.
You collaborated with artists like Jordan Ward and Chase Shakur on the standard edition. You three are a kind of representative of a rising wave of male R&B stars. What’s your take on the state of male R&B right now?
I feel like it’s the most collaborative era. R&B n—as trying to beef… that’s something I’ve never understood. Everybody’s cool, everybody’s trying to help each other get a bag, especially with St. Louis right now, where me and Jordan are from. Everybody has their own style, so it’s cool. I feel like with ‘90s R&B, it was a lot of different versions of the same sound. They were all really good. It’s kind of the same now, but it’s more collaborative. I know I’ll do another record Chase and Jordan. I think because of that hybrid rap R&B, now it’s easier to get other fans from other genres.
When you straddle the lines of R&B and rap, as you do, do you feel a responsibility to beef up your how “R&B” your music sounds to appease industry classifications?
Wherever y’all wanna slot me is where y’all slot me. But I’m not gonna change for your definition of it. That’s a universal feeling that doesn’t change with Black artists no matter how big you are. We’re watching right now with Beyoncé, they don’t want to put her in country. It’s the same with new artists. On the business side, it’s important because of playlisting. [Songs] need to be placed based on what it sounds like, not who you are. I think it’s based too much off of the person’s character and not the sound. It don’t bother me, a good record is a good record and nothing can stop the good record from moving how it’s supposed to move.
Where’s your head at it in terms of new music?
I got my main album I’m working on. I think I’ll probably put out an EP in the summertime and get some songs off that I have that I really like. I haven’t been listening to any new music because I’m not a fan of anything right now. I really like Brent Faiyaz, obviously SZA, a couple of other artists. I listen to a lot of old stuff, pulling samples that I want to flip. I’ve been listening to a lot of Tame Impala, just seeing what I can pull from. Everybody’s on this whole toxic wave, I got to find artists that aren’t trying to talk about all that.
Or you could try and push them out of that comfort zone.
Yeah, I’m in my Justin Bieber bag, right now. I was never a Belieber, but I’ve been listening to his whole catalog. Journals is so consistent. It was R&B, everything worked on radio, everything was still technically a pop record, he went and got rappers, you know what I’m saying? It’s just such a complete body of work and he was 100% apologetic on there. I don’t know if it’s towards Selena [Gomez] or whatever, but it was like he was just full-fledged sorry. Girls really, really love that; you’re not trying to keep your ego and also apologize. I’ve just been studying. [My next record is about] obsession. Whether it’s an unhealthy obsession or whether it was a good obsession.
“RIDIN 4 U”
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I did that song in 2021, I just recut it. It was one of those songs that was at the end of a studio session where I went in trying to make a whole bunch of other songs and I didn’t like any of them. I was just playing around, and that one came out the best. I think that’s why I was comfortable enough [to go on] IG live and play it. Then my fans would always be like, “When you putting this out?” So, when I went on tour with Mariah [the Scientist], I just started teasing them. I knew I had to do the deluxe, but I didn’t think I was going to put [“Ridin’”] on there. But I got really good reception from fans — especially in Paris — and from there we made the switch.
In terms of the flow, I’ve been listening to a lot of Frank Ocean for the past year. I always have the intention of trying to make the biggest record that I possibly can. But, it’s just like anything creative — if you force it, it comes out whack or corny. I think that day was more of a management-scheduled session. I usually don’t do well in those, [but] when I was ready to go, I heard something that I liked and that felt most like myself. I think what the standard edition needed was one or two more of those really hardbody R&B records, the most singing records. I’m proud of the records on that album, but I’m still my biggest critic — and I like all my records from 2019-2020, when I was still trying to figure out my sound and this one reminds me of that.
“RESET”
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I think that’s my favorite one out of the three. I think it’s the most personal. It was like the last song I made in the last relationship I was in. That was a real tough one. TT Audi did the beat, he’s a dope producer. Every artist got a couple go-to producers, and for me, it’s Boi-1da, Vinylz and Audi. They’re just always sending me stuff. They do a good job at getting more R&B-catered artists on hard beats. I think that was the last day I was with the girl I was with, that was the last song I wrote toward her. I think [“Reset”] is more for me than my fans, but it ended up being one they really like.
I think I started out trying to find a balance between making music for myself and pleasing my fans. But the more you know yourself and figure out your sound, you can cater more towards the fans. I feel like that’s tough to do when you’re a newer artist trying to figure out what you even sound like. It’s a business at the end of the day, and that’s something I’m trying to get better at [with] this next album I’m working on. I feel like every artist says that after they tour, their sound changes because they know what records work. There’s a lot of records from Streets Say You Miss Me that I love, that I can sit and listen to in a room like this, but I can’t perform.
“POURIN OUT MY HEART”
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I recorded this in a hotel room. Somebody sold me some fake Lakers tickets. I was in the W across from the Staples Center, I went over there and they were like, “These tickets are invalid.”
Most of this album was recorded in Atlanta. My A&R, Sicakmore, sent me down there to really trap out the R&B sound I was working on. That was the first time I started working with different writers and producers. Atlanta is like a melting pot. Every song I did in Atlanta, I was in the studio 20 deep. You’ll have like 5-10 producers in there working, they’ll swap out and new producers come in, then some of your homeboys that rap, they’ll come lay a verse and leave, then the strippers get off their shift, they come in and they sit.
The girls were a big, important part of this album — like the HBCU girls that would come through. Every night was a vibe. I came down for Sonny Digital, Mike Will – those are the guys I started with – but when I got more comfortable I met my brother PopLord, he’s a really good writer and artist. It’s tough because some n—as just have girls in there to have them in there. The way the studio was set up, I could see the sitting area from the booth. Every song I was making, if the girls in there were moving, I would keep working on the record. If it was a song where nobody was really vibing, then I just scratch it and go on to the next.
How can somebody be successful and underrated at the same time? That’s the space Cardo finds himself in. The Texas producer — by way of St. Paul, Minnesota — has diamond- (Drake’s “God’s Plan”) and platinum-certified (Travis Scott’s “Goosebumps”) records from the RIAA, and has produced countless songs with underground darlings and blog era legends, yet he still feels left out of the conversation when it comes to rap’s best producers.
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“I’ve been left off these top five, top 10 lists, whatever, people fail to mention me,” he tells Billboard over Zoom, sounding equal parts perturbed and confused. He’s looking to change that narrative, though. Just four months into the new year, Cardo has had a stellar 2024 already, producing a handful of bangers for Playboi Carti and contributing to ScHoolboy Q’s impressive Blue Lips.
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Cardo Got Wings isn’t planning on slowing down either. The producer born Ronald Nathan LaTour Jr. —whose childhood friends dubbed him Ricardo because he looks Puerto Rican — is working on a solo album. He’s using Dr. Dre’s solo debut as inspiration, saying, “The Chronic was a staple of how a producer can take charge of an entire project.”
There’s also a few “I’m the rapper, he’s the producer”-type of projects coming from him as well, a format that has become synonymous with his brand. We talk about all those things, plus much more below, in a condensed version of our conversation.
You look Puerto Rican for real, bro.
I get that every f—in’ day, that’s how I got my name Ricardo. That’s how it happened. They used to call me and my brothers the Hoy Boys because we had curly hair and were lightskin. I kinda ran with the name and let my Latin fans down, though, because they thought I was Puerto Rican or Dominican.
You and Carti have been locked in. You’ve produced the last couple singles.
Yeah, the last four: “HOODBYAIR,” “EVILJORDAN,” “BACKR00MS,” and “KETAMINE.” That’s my little brother, man. Just being around him, the young one, you know, and gaining some kind of different kind of energy and inspiration from what he’s doing, seeing what levels he’s going on, it kind of gives me an idea of what levels I should just keep going. That’s how we’re creating all these fun records, breaking all these barriers that people made up.
Why aren’t the songs on streaming?
I guess testing the waters with social media [first].
Some of the videos are wild.
[Laughs.] Yeah, exactly. But, man, it gives it contrast, it gives it a raw element, back into the artistry. Especially with all these videos being run-and-gun, and they don’t have nothing to it, just the song, you know? The video sometimes makes you love the song even. I feel like that’s what Carti is bringin’. That, plus making sure the visuals are definitely wicked and pushing the envelope because some of these rules are just made up. This is meant for you to do whatever the f—k you want to do and make the s—t that you want to make. And that’s where we at now, you know, so I respect him 100% for just being creative and being a true artist to himself first.
When you made these beats for him, was it over email? Were you in the studio with him?
No, it was really over FaceTime. Me and Carti been working on this project in particular over the last four years. Either I link up with him wherever he’s at, probably New York, or I’ll just send it straight to his phone — or send it to Fritz [Owens, Carti’s engineer] because Fritz [is] with him every day. Carti changes his number all the time too, so I won’t hear from him for a couple months, and then he’ll hit me and boom, –we get reignited, and I start sending files.
You’ve watched Carti’s style evolve. Can you explain how that’s been since you’ve worked so closely with him?
I look at everything that he’s done, with guys like Pierre and everybody else. They all gave him a different sound, a different pocket. They all bring something different to the table. He doesn’t reach out to people because of this or that, he reaches out for a specific sound. Just by seeing his performances and listening to Whole Lotta Read, I’m like, “Man, this is what rap has been missing.” We’ve been missing this kind of energy. You know what I’m saying? Some may not agree with me because that’s not they type of music, but for a listener that listens to any genre of music, I feel like it was probably one of the most unique albums in rap.
I’m not the biggest Whole Lotta Red fan, but I get the appeal and I see the influence, a lot of cats bitin’ that style. It’s a polarizing album; you either love it or hate it.
[Laughs.] It’s like a punk, alternative [album]. That’s what I like about it most, it’s a grunge-ass rap album that makes you go wild; in the gym, driving, whatever. That album done gave me a few speeding tickets. I’m originally from the Midwest, I’m from the Twin Cities. We’re surrounded by everything. So, by listening to DJ Paul, Juicy J and DJ Zirk and everybody else down to Squeaky, everybody, seeing their production and trying to make something as triumphant as that…Lil Jon, too. I always have that sound in me some way, somehow, some inspiration. So that’s where it comes from too.
It’s not like I just did this. I’ve been a fan of these other producers I look at as my peers. That’s how this sound happens. And I could do some completely different s—t with Larry June, and come back around and do some s—t with Drake. You know? And then Travis Scott. I’m a marksman at this point.
How do you prefer to work? Because you work with certain cats a lot, so I’m always curious, especially in this new era, if most of the work is done over email, FaceTime, in the studio, etc.
I do prefer being hands-on in the session, just because you kind of get more of a vibe of what the artist is trying to do, versus via Zoom, Discord or whatever. The energy don’t even fill the room. That’s how you know that energy is a real thing. It’s always best to be in the same room, especially if you have personalities. It’s best to just get that and bring the best out of it and you make magic because now n—as are more open. You get to break the ice and work more comfortably with each other. It can be awkward when you finally link up [after] you’re just sending things over email or the phone.
What are the benefits of locking in and making an entire project with a rapper?
I blame Dr. Dre, I blame DJ Quik. I look up to the greats. Again, The Legendary Traxster, how he did Adrenaline Rush with Twista, how Quik did Street Gospel with Suga Free. The Chronic was a staple of how a producer can take charge of an entire project. They know how to build a story, they know how to build a concept, and they know what works with different rappers. Doing projects with other producers sometimes throws the balance off. That’s like going on a roller coaster ride and it goes off the rails. You’re forcing it talking about all killas, no fillers and it sounds like all fillers, no killas.
Are you making an album with anybody else that we should know about?
Doing this project with this kid named Nasaan out of Detroit. He’s probably one of the rawest kids coming up out of there right now. I’m also doing some s—t with Wizz Havin, Lil Shimmy, and have been trying to do this project with Luh Tyler this past year. There’s a lot of things — Nutso Thugn out of Atlanta. My objective is to provide new sounds, new artists. There’s too many gatekeepers.
What don’t you like about gatekeepers?
I think it’s lame for artists and producers to have to get approval. The craft should be respected. I hate to be the one that has to come in wrecking s—t, because we ain’t gonna tolerate that s—t no more. You know we ain’t gonna let that slide with a million other motherf—ers coming up that’s still trying to get to the top, that’s trying to provide for their families or just simply have finances. It’s gotta be people like myself that try to help these kids as they try to get somewhere with this music whether it be a producer or a composer or whatever. You gotta practice what you preach.
I wanted to talk about your versatility. Do you feel like you’re underrated?
I feel like I am. People are going to [mimics a crowd of hecklers], man, that’s cool. I feel [I am] on a different level. I do feel like I’m underrated. I’ve been left off these Top five, Top 10 lists, whatever, people fail to mention me. Knowing that I laid a lot of groundwork in this industry for over the last 14, going on 15 years, I deserve a little bit of credit for providing lanes in this s—t too because we came from a whole blogging era where we weren’t getting paid a f—in’ dime. We had to really fight to get paid.
So, for us to have the integrity and the ambition to even keep going, that should tell you a lot about people like myself, Boi1da, Southside, anybody that came from that era. They’ll tell you what this s—t means—[there’s] more of a purpose. It’s not just for myself, it’s for my kids, too—to show them you can keep going and going as long as you don’t stop. Just keep f—in’ going.
I feel like I’m in my LeBron phase right now. I’m 39, but I’m still out here working the court, I’m still in the starting five, I’m still running up and down that bitch for the next 30-45 minutes, trying to put every point up on the board. I’ve been in the gym every damn day, every year, just waiting for the opportunity to show the world exactly what I’ve been doing. So, yeah, I feel like I’m underrated in a lot of aspects.
People fail to realize we’ve really paved a way for a lot of things to take place. At the same time the record reflects that, it proves itself. And then it came to a point where people started asking who the f—k is Cardo? Alright, cool. That’s the campaign. Who the F—k Is Cardo? Just Google me, baby. I’m at a point in my career where I’ve done enough and you’re not going to disrespect me. You’re gonna respect me for the s—t I’ve done in this industry. I’ve never been no rude fella or nothing like that, but my respect is gonna be given. That’s for damn sure. That’s why I’m acting crazy now. It’s the madman on the loose. I gotta set the world on fire.
On your Joker s—t, working with Carti. You got to put some face paint on.
Man, what? I always feel like I’m a villain. I’m Bane right now. I just bought a mask; I’m waiting for it to come in the mail. [Starts talking like Tom Hardy’s Bane.] “You think you can see the darkness? Ohh”.
I’ve been practicing, bro. I’m just waiting to take the stage like Kanye and just take the mic and get my Bane on real quick.
How many tracks do you have on Wiz Khalifa’s Kush & Orange Juice 2?
I just found out about that. I ain’t know nothing about that. Tell Wiz to holla at me though, man. [Laughs.] I was shocked by it, too. You can’t top Kush & Orange Juice, that’s just my opinion.
When I mentioned you were underrated, I wanted to talk about your versatility. You have so many different sounds. You can go crazy with Playboi and you can do records with Drake, then you can smooth it out with some West Coast s—t with Larry June and some Midwest s—t with Payroll Giovanni. It sounds like some Midwest Chicago…Texas sound, Do or Die, West Coast bounce…
Got the mob music mixed with the The Legendary Traxster, Chi-Bangin’ sound. You a knower. A lot of people don’t know that, man. The Midwest sound, that bounce, that Rich the Factor, that [57th Street] Rogue Dog Villains, all the way to that Psycho Drama s—t. I was always inspired by The Legendary Traxster, he’s still one of the GOATs. He actually produced on “Carnival.” That’s somebody I always looked up to, that’s like my big bro. The Alchemist hit me the other day saying, “Whatever you do, do not stop going f—in’ crazy!” I’m running on what my OGs are telling me to do.
You gotta listen to him too because he’s a workhorse. I don’t know if he sleeps. He floods the streets for multiple eras.
He’s been doing this s—t for over 20-plus years, man. He’s seen everything.
He’s not afraid to work with lesser knows acts. You’re similar in that regard.
He pushes the envelope. That’s what I’m saying. I look up to him. If anyone breaks artists that people may not know of on the underground tip, it’s Alan. I see he’s doing a tape with Slump God and I’m like, “What the hell is going on? [Laughs.] I don’t even know what to expect, because Slump God is one of the most abstract artists with his flow and his character. I just want to see how he’s gonna sound on Alan’s production rapping the way he raps. I know it’s gonna be fire, I just want to know what it’s gonna sound like.
You’re on the ScHoolboy album which I think is going to be one of the best rap albums of the year. So I wanted to know your experience. Did it feel special as you were working on it with him?
Hell yeah. Off top, ’cause just based off me and Q’s relationship, that’s my brother from another. We can be real with each other when we’re in the studio. “This s—t wack that, get out here with that.” It’s not like we’re in there making whatever like we’re a yes man operation. This was the last four years. He was working on [Blue Lips] right before CrasH Talk dropped. So, we were already in, we just didn’t know where it was going to go to, like the concept or any of that, we were just making music.
And during that time period, we still had a fresh wound because we had just lost Mac [Miller] a year before. It was like a healing process; we were making music like it was the remedy to it all. Because we both went through it; that was our brother.
Word, you worked with Mac a lot.
That was the first artist I worked with. Before Wiz. A lot of people don’t know that. I reached out to him through MySpace. The first song we did was “Laundromat” back in ‘09. He had the “Mesmerized” beat first and everything. He used to brag about it all the time. Whenever me, him, and Wiz would be together he would say, [mimicking Mac Miller’s voice] “I had the “Mesmerized” beat first. [Laughs.] He’s greatly missed, but we feel his energy every day. He’s the guiding light. The boy was different, he was a robot.
Q recently talked about passing on “Goosebumps.” How did you feel when he passed on that?
That s—t was hilarious. He was…I wanna be real because this is my best friend, we talk to each other like this. I was like, “You crazy as f—k. N—a you passed this s—t up.” Every chance I get, I hold it over his head. That’s just what we do, we talk s—t to each other, that’s my brother. [Mimicking ScHoolboy Q’s voice] “Ah, I wasn’t trying to hear that s—t, I wasn’t tryin’ to do no pop s—t, cuz.” Aight, bet, whatever. We joke about it to this day. He did something to it, he just don’t want nobody to hear it. [Laughs.]
That’s an incredible record. One of the best songs to see performed live.
Me and Yung Exclusive having input in two of the biggest records in rap history with “Goosebumps” and “God’s Plan” is one of those things where you can sit back and reflect on everything that you’ve done and accomplished. This was all work at first and then all of it came to fruition and it pays for itself. People start checking for your work more.
You’ve mentioned that you’re 39 now. With the success of “God’s plan” and “Goosebumps,” do you feel like you’ve gotten better since making those beats?
That’s crazy that you asked me that. Nobody’s ever asked me them kind of questions. So, check this out: I started noticing I was getting better when I started making s—t with the greats like Travis, Dot, and Drake. I would listen to my beats and be like, “F—k, I’m really getting up there.” I’m learning how to make my drums sound clearer, I’m learning how to do this and do that, just on the simple side of things. I used to think it was about overdoing it, but I’ve learned that simplicity is sometimes the best. It’s about balancing things because I can go crazy and then I can go super simple on a beat.
Once I mastered those powers, I can give an artist whatever they need. I became a weapon. That’s why I became a villain. F—k the underrated s—t. I’m an anti-hero. This is the movie where you wanna see the villain win.
That’s why you work with polarizing artists? Lil Yachty is another artist you’ve been working with recently. How has it been working with him? He’s not afraid. He doesn’t give a f—k about nobody’s opinion. He doesn’t care about what you think he’s doing and that’s what I respect about him. I was one of these people, when he came out with “Minnesota,” I thought he was disrespecting my hometown — like, “Who the f—k let this n—a put this s—t out?” And then me and him became cool. It ended up becoming one of those things [where] I seen him as an artist growing, I seen the potential in him, I seen his personality.
I’ve always looked at Yachty as a creator. I put him up there with Tyler almost. His creativity, vision, style, them n—as could both dress. That’s what I like about Boat. He provides a different space in hip-hop because he doesn’t care. Some like Pepsi, some like Coke. That’s how I look at it.
You’ve done things with some R&B artists like Brent Faiyaz recently. Are you looking to get into making more R&B beats?
Hell yeah, of course. Shout to my boy Justice over at LVRN. I’m trying to get in with Summer [Walker] soon.
So once the villain era is over, we’re going to get Certified Lover Boy Cardo?
You’re gonna get the smooth operator. That’s the next concept. I’m creating a universe and I’m trying to figure out these characters. For this album that I’m working on there’s a character called Madman Van Damme based on Jean-Claude Van Damme who’s one of my favorite actors. I’m gonna take ‘em to the Kumite and f—k ‘em up real quick. Even if I get powder in my eyes, I’m still gonna whoop everybody’s ass. [Laughs.] I’m trying to balance everything and at the same time unbalance things too if you catch my drift. I wanna disturb the peace.
It’s been a exciting few months for Chelsea Cutler, as the 27-year-old singer-songwriter dropped her third studio album, Stellaria, in October and embarked on a tour to support the fan-favorite project. Since then, her track “Your Bones” has blown up on TikTok, and to celebrate all her recent achievements, she sat down with Billboard‘s Tetris Kelly for a wide-ranging interview.
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As for whether or not she knew that her song “Your Bones” would be an online representation of love, Cutler said that she did and didn’t at the same time. “I probably expected — just given the nature of my relationship, I’m obviously in a relationship with a woman, so I think a lot of my fanbase is probably part of the LBGTQ community. I definitely expected that, but I think what’s really cool is we were seeing the song be used on social media for everything, like dogs, babies, relationship, self-love, everything. That was more surprising than anything,” she shared, adding that Stranger Things actress Millie Bobby Brown used the song to soundtrack a montage with one of her foster dogs.
For Stellaria, Cutler knew that she wanted a Western aesthetic to go along with the project. “I knew I wanted the content to be kind of Yellowstone inspired, so we ended up going out there and that word ‘stellaria’ kept coming up,” she recalled. “There was a Stellaria Lane and a Stellaria Creek. Me being a Latin nerd, I saw that and I was like, ‘That’s a fascinating word.’ I fell in love with it, it means ‘starlight,’ and it just felt like such a great representation for the world that I wanted to make.”
Cutler is also no stranger to being open about her mental health, and she says that her vulnerability goes hand-in-hand with her creativity. “I feel so selfish, because writing music and being honest in my music is so for me and it’s such an awesome byproduct that the vulnerability translates into a greater narrative around being open with my mental health,” she said. “I think it’s cool that when I sit down to make music, it’s just an outlet for all of these big feelings that I’m having and I feel no shame around sharing that at all. It led to so many amazing conversations surrounding mental health.”
Watch Billboard‘s full interview with Chelsea Cutler above.
After a decade-long absence, Jumbo, a cornerstone of Latin alternative rock, are making their return to the U.S. stage, joining forces with genre peers División Minúscula. Their much-anticipated comeback follows years of setbacks due to a “critical error” that led to visa complications, preventing them from touring stateside despite the release of three albums brimming with tour-worthy material.
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Now, armed with renewed vigor and passion, the Mexican rock band — consisting of frontman Clemente Castillo, guitarist Jorge “Flip” Tamez, bassist Carlos Castro, drummer Alberto Ramos, and producer Iñigo Rizo — are ready to captivate audiences once again as they crisscross the United States, hitting major cities from coast to coast. Promoted by Live Nation, the tour kicks off in Chicago on April 17, followed by a show in New York City the next day. The tour route includes stops in Salt Lake City, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Dallas, and culminates in Houston, Texas on August 14.
Celebrating 25 years since the release of their debut album, Restaurant, in 1999, Jumbo’s significance extends beyond mere longevity. This album not only marked a milestone in the band’s career but also played a pivotal role in shaping the Mexican music scene of its time, particularly the musical boom known as La Avanzada Regia scene of that era in Monterrey.
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“The grand merit of that generation was to be able to break [barriers] and show that in a city where there was no music scene suddenly thundered and became so big,” Flip (real name Jorge Tamez Chapa) tells Billboard Español. “Plastilina Mosh was nothing like Zurdok, which was nothing like La Flor de Lingo, or Niña, or Kinky. Unconsciously we valued being original, and I think that created a very rich movement. Thirty years later it is beginning to be romanticized a lot. I feel very proud to be from that generation”.
Jumbo. Photo Credit: Juan Rodrigo Llaguno
Juan Rodrigo Llaguno
“División Minúscula and Jumbo are two bands with different backgrounds but equally important in the alternative rock genre. They belong to an era that defined many fans on both sides of the border,” adds Manuel Moran, vp of Latin touring at Live Nation. “We are proud to be part of this great celebration and we are very grateful for the trust they have placed in us to surprise their fans in the United States with a comeback tour and an unexpected collaboration like this one.”
Jumbo’s latest release, Manual De Viaje A Un Lugar Lejano (En Directo), earned them a Latin Grammy nomination for best pop/rock album in 2019, further solidifying their status as stalwarts of the Latin alternative rock scene.
In this interview, Flip delves into the band’s journey, from the highs of success to the challenges they’ve faced along the way, shedding light on their experiences and aspirations for the future. And yes, he explains why they could not enter the U.S. for over a decade.
What does it mean for you to take the stage again in the United States, and how did the opportunity to collaborate with División Minúscula for this tour come up?
We are very happy to tour the United States and celebrate 25 years of our career. We had an issue, a very serious mistake we made that kept us away from the United States for more than ten years. During the first albums Restaurant (1999), D.D. y Ponle Play (2001), and Teleparque (2003), we had great tours over there. We were building a market early in our career. Saúl Hernández from Jaguares invited us to be openers along with Julieta Venegas and La Gusana Ciega. I remember they were incredible tours, and suddenly there’s this break.
Many years went by — and fortunately we managed to overcome this — and now we have the opportunity to share the stage with División Minúscula. Although they are from Matamoros, most of them have been living here in Monterrey for many years. They are very good friends. It’s the first time we do a tour as such and we are very happy; I think it’s going to be very fun.
Jumbo. Photo Credit: Juan Rodrigo Llaguno
Juan Rodrigo Llaguno
As you celebrate these 25 years, what do you consider has been the key to staying together as a band?
It’s very difficult. The other day I read a report by Sting that said, “I don’t think any grown man can be in a band.” He said it had to do with this youth gang dynamic that gets a little lost as you get older. And you notice that the relationship does change — you change as a person, you are no longer that youth [from before] — but I think we are still united by the desire to make music.
Jumbo is a band that from day one, we set out to make songs that would go beyond the barrier of time. We were never very attached to any fashion — although when we came out, we sounded like what was going on in the early 2000s. In our journey, we have seen many things come and go. We’ve had to change formats, first digital, then streaming. Many things have happened to us that I think the love of making music has brought us back into alignment. Fortunately, we have never fought or disrespected each other, but we have an admiration for each of the members.
And although at times we do have different artistic goals and visions, it always ends up falling in the same place. Many of us in the band are producers of other projects, we have other activities, but all related to music. As long as there are people who lend us their ears, there is no reason to stop. The 25 years was a number that hit us like a motherf–ker. It’s a great reason to celebrate.
Being one of the pioneers of La Avanzada Regia movement in Monterrey, how do you see the impact of this movement on today’s music, and what do you think has been your most significant contribution to this legacy?
I always say that I’m very proud to be from that generation. I grew up playing in many bands, and it didn’t cross my mind to dedicate myself professionally to this, or to be signed by a record label or go on tour. And suddenly the scene was big enough, the Monterrey scene. There were like 10 to 15 bands playing in four or five places, and the rest was the audience. This is before the internet — I mean, we took our flyers to the show and handed them out to perform the following week.
La Avanzada, we were very united as bands; there was the same hunger to go out and dream, to take this to the next level. Monterrey, being the industrial capital of the country, had a very rigid scheme of opportunities. You had to study, work in one of the big companies, and make your life. It was very difficult to dream of a profession outside those schemes. The great merit of that generation was to be able to break [barriers] and demonstrate that in a city where there was no professional music scene it could become so big, and in a few years permeate the Latin market so strongly.
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When Control Machete came out, it a huge boom that the rest of Latin America turned to see what was happening in Monterrey. They were looking for a hip-hop movement, but they found something very different. Plastilina Mosh was nothing like Zurdok, which was nothing like La Flor de Lingo, or Niña, or Kinky. Unconsciously we valued very much being original, not looking like anybody else and I think that created a very rich movement. Thirty years later this scene is beginning to be romanticized a lot.
What’s next after the tour? Any final thoughts?
One goal that we had for many years was to get back to the United States in some way. I think the next thing after this tour is to get into the studio. There are no concrete plans yet.
I’ll tell you the anecdote so that there is no mystery; I think it’s something that new [foreign] bands learn from. We made the very serious mistake of going to a show with a tourist visa. The work visa has a shorter amount of time. It happens to [foreign] bands that the work visa has a short period of time. Suddenly there is an isolated show, and even though we had an arrangement with the promoter that could be for promotion, we got too close to the line and fell into a problem. So, it doesn’t matter if you’re going to play a free show, it doesn’t matter if you’re going to tour very casually. Playing in the U.S. is work, and that cost us to stay away for many years. If it’s any moral for bands, don’t make that mistake. We learned the hard way and fortunately we are back.
We are really excited. We had a hard time having three albums and not being able to tour there. So we bring all that accumulated energy and we are sure you will notice it in the shows.
Check out Jumbo and División Minúscula’s full tour dates below, second slide:
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Igmar Thomas exists in a musical ecosystem that engages every part of his human experience, allowing him to express the kaleidoscopic span of creative expression. In a recent chat with Hip-Hop Wired, Igmar Thomas shared a bit about his upbringing in California, encountering fellow leaders of the jazz scene, and his excitement about the inaugural Hip Hop &… festival at the Kennedy Center.
With a reserved vocal tone befitting of a band leader, Igmar Thomas’ breezy nature translated well in our brief chat with him. We opened up the talk by asking Thomas how growing up in San Diego, which isn’t known for its jazz scene, and how he came to encounter his love of music overall.
“Growing up in San Diego, it’s not New Orleans or New York, it’s more of a slice of franchise America,” Thomas began. “I wasn’t exposed to juke joints and things like that at a young age but my father’s love of music and his record collection was diverse. He loved all types of music.”
Thomas continued, “I heard everything growing up and discovering music via radio and television. My friends and family also got me into a lot of different genres. So my musical vocation at a young age isn’t like say, a cat from New Orleans.”
Thomas then explained that he began his formal training with music at age 11, joining the school band playing in a structured format, and learning the trumpet. He added that the public school system was key in getting him into playing music.
The West Coast jazz scene, much like the Los Angeles underground beat scene, is packed with talent. Thomas has worked alongside the likes of Ron Bruner, Stephen “Thundercat” Bruner, Kamasi Washington, and others during their respective journeys in music. We asked about the early days of those connections.
“It all came together towards the end of high school and it was pretty organic [how we all met],” Thomas says of his early encounters with Washington. “I can’t recall everything but I think I saw Kamasi playing at the UCLA Jazz Fest, or he could’ve been with Christian McBride. Growing up where I did, it was amazing to see him play in the same lane I wanted to be in and killing it at that.”
Thomas adds, “Kamasi was playing better than I could. I actually got to meet Kamasi and his folks via Ray Hargrove, who was my big brother in music. So I was at Catalina’s a lot and met Kamasi and Ron [Bruner] there. I met Kamasi’s whole band eventually, which includes Brandon Coleman, Ron, and his brother Stephen, who everyone knows is Thundercat.”
In the chat, Thomas remarked on how Ron Bruner had more of an eclectic style of dress back then, which Thomas says may have been informed by his working with Sa-Ra Creative Partners at the time while Thundercat was conservative in comparison. These days, Thundercat is viewed as a style icon, something Thomas mentioned with a laugh. He respectfully referred to the bassist as his generation’s Bootsy Collins.
We then switched our conversation to the Revive Big Band and Thomas’ aims with the outfit from its early days to now. With a knowing nod to how his journey played out, Thomas shared that he’s hoping that his band can be an extension of creativity from him and those who make up the band.
“I felt like when we first came out, we were trying to prove something but now, I don’t feel that way anymore,” Thomas explains. “Our message is consistent and what I mean is we’re all one family. They used to box us in by styles, and genres. But our debut album will show our true family tree. That includes Hip-Hop, R&B, funk, rock, and jazz. When you see us play, you see we’re more aligned musically than the award shows would have you believe.”
Thomas added, “I came up in the jazz tradition which does have rules but also, in that same breath, some breaking of the rules. We’ve always mixed things up. Bird [Charlie Parker] did it. Miles [Davis] did it. It’s just history repeating itself and that’s what the band represents. We play within a space of invisible boundaries and sometimes cross them.”
We asked Thomas to share his thoughts on the upcoming Hip Hop &… festival at the Kennedy Center, where Revive Big Band has two evening shows lined up. Having played at the Kennedy Center previously, Thomas says he’s excited to share what his band is doing and is thankful for the hard work of Simone Eccleston, the director of Hip Hop Culture & Contemporary Music at the Kennedy Center.
“I love what they’re doing at the Kennedy Center, they’re doing a tremendous job,” Thomas said. “Seeing it from the outside looking in, I love every bit of it. The festival idea is amazing and I hope it’s a trend that spreads. I am a big fan of both Hip-Hop and jazz and I rock Hip-Hop ahead of my jazz gigs and vice versa. That same synergy I seek in life, we hope to give the fans in attendance via the Revive Big Band experience.”
Thomas continued, “I want to be sure to add that the Hip Hop &… festival is dedicated to the memory of Meghan Stabile, who started the Revive Music Group. Our work with Revive Music informed our interpretation of jazz and Hip-Hop. This is the result of Revive Music Group and all of the work Simone Eccleston has put in to make this happen. It’s all coming full circle because Meghan got us booked at the Kennedy Center in 2014 and now Simone is making all these wonderful things happen.”
Learn more about Igmar Thomas and the Revive Big Band here.
To obtain information on any of the ongoing Hip Hop &… festival happenings, featuring Robert Glasper, De La Soul, Rakim, and more, click here.
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Photo: Igmar Thomas/Kennedy Center
It’s a Thursday morning in Silver Lake, Calif., and singer-songwriter Lauren Sanderson is already feeling the fatigue set in. “It’s been all hands on deck 24 hours a day,” she sighs. “Anyone who’s in this industry and not drinking coffee might be insane.”
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The 28-year-old singer has a good reason for her exhaustion. While Sanderson spent much of her career bouncing between major labels (she signed to Sony’s Epic Records for her 2018 EP Don’t Panic before departing the label in 2019) and more boutique organizations (Rix Records, Young Forever Inc.), the singer is now taking the do-it-yourself approach to its most literal conclusion.
“I’m an only child, and I think the more I grow up, the more I realize how much I might sometimes be overly independent,” she says, laughing at herself. “I would rather go into this year, make the best album of my life and really meet the specific goals and vision I have for myself than rely on someone else. If a manager can do it for me, then I can do it for myself.”
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The aforementioned best album of her life is still coming down the pipeline (with a tentative July release date set in place), but those wondering what it might sound like recently got a first taste. “They Won’t Like This,” the recently released lead single from the new LP, features Sanderson at her most confident as she casually asserts that she simply doesn’t care how people perceive her. “I got a theory, yeah, it’s something they won’t like,” she raps on the song’s swaggering first verse. “‘Cause I’m not supposed to be myself, but I just might.”
The song was born out of what Sanderson calls “rejection exposure therapy,” where the singer opens herself up to the possibility of being dismissed in order to overcome her fear of it. “There’s that moment where you’re about to do something that you really want to do, but then something in your brain is like, ‘They’re not gonna like that, they’re gonna judge you,’” she explains. “But you can’t mistake judging yourself for other people judging you. It’s like, are they gonna laugh at you? Or are you laughing at yourself?”
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Despite the confident persona she projects to her fans, Sanderson still struggles with rejection — even when it comes to a song about the combatting that very idea. “I loved this song, but I still got in my head and told my girlfriend, ‘I don’t think that I should put it out, I don’t think people will like it,’” Sanderson says. “She looked at me and said, ‘Girl, then what the f-ck did you make this song for? Isn’t that the whole point?’”
Part of the reason the song immediately resonated with the singer is precisely because it reflected the sound of her early career, when she still lived in Indiana and started releasing rap-influenced pop tracks on her own. That, she points out, was her goal in approaching new music for 2024.
“My biggest inspiration for this whole album, this single, all of it was my younger self. It was for the 19-year0old girl who had no clue how to make a song, but she just started saying how she felt on a beat,” she says. “It’s actually really cool to now look back at her, to hear her words for big dreamers and to apply them to my current self.”
That dedication to her younger self also manifested with her new approach to doing business in the music industry. After spending the last six years of her career deferring to managers, promoters and executives at various labels, Sanderson is back to doing all of work for herself.
Sure, the prospect of managing her own career can be daunting — “It can be, like, ‘Oh, f-ck, this is a lot,’ and the goal is not to manage myself forever,” she says — but the singer-songwriter points out that she’s done it all before, albeit on a smaller scale. “This is exactly how I started in Indiana,” she says. “I was my own fake manager, I was a fake booking agent, and I booked an entire 28-city tour that I drove myself around on … I don’t know if it’s because I’m a Capricorn or what, but I love to send an email. I love to make a Dropbox folder.”
Part of her promotion strategy, as it has been with nearly every artist making their mark in the industry as of late, has been TikTok. Over the last few years, Sanderson accrued over 500,000 followers on the app, posting videos ranging from teasers of her latest songs, to diaristic entries on mental health, queer affirmation and more.
Now, that particular tool in her promotional strategy is in jeopardy. In January, Universal Music Group announced that they would be pulling their entire music catalogue — including the work of signed songwriters — from the app saying that TikTok was “trying to build a music-based business, without paying fair value for the music.” In the intervening months since, multiple music organizations have come out in support of UMG’s protest, and even independent promoters have warned clients against relying too heavily on the app for virality. Meanwhile, the House of Representatives recently passed a bill through to the Senate that, if made a law, would effectively force ByteDance — the company that owns TikTok — to sell the app to another company or have the app banned throughout the United States.
For her part, Sanderson recognizes the influence that TikTok has over the music industry right now — but she’s quick to point out that adaptability is more important to success than chasing viral trends. “Some people have built TikTok to be this thing where musicians feel like if you don’t have a million followers on the app, then you might as well just write yourself off,” she says. “TikTok is literally just an app, it is not the make or break for every artist. It definitely would suck if TikTok stopped existing … but if it was gone, I would definitely just start posting Reels. It’s really that simple.”
It certainly helps that before she pursued a career in music, Sanderson worked as a motivational speaker in her teens and early twenties. She could be giving a TED Talk or simply posting an inspirational video on YouTube, but Sanderson always made it clear that her goal was to help uplift anyone who were willing to listen to her.
That facet of herself remains entirely unchanged — even on “They Won’t Like This,” as she’s done with many of her past releases, Sanderson spends the song’s outro instructing her fans to “stop f–king doubting yourself and be this god that you are.”
She chalks up her mood-boosting tendencies to a “delusional confidence” she’s had since she started her career in Indiana. “I had to go to this place in my head and be truly so delusional and convince myself I already did massive things that I hadn’t done. In my head I was like, ‘I’ve already sold out Madison Square Garden,’” she says.
But now, she points out that some of the fantasy has already become reality. Over the last five years, Sanderson has opened for bigger artists like Finneas and Chase Atlantic on their respective solo tours, helped write songs for alt-R&B star Joji’s chart-topping album Smithereens, and cultivated a motivated, ever-growing audience of fans.
“Sometimes I forget that my confidence isn’t really that delusional,” she beams. “Now I have actual proof that I can do this.”