Interview
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All artists bare their hearts, but none quite like Dana Margolin. Whether she’s rocking out or inward, the frontwoman and lyricist of Porridge Radio sings with an arresting, visceral intensity that never comes across as performative.
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So, it’s surprising — and heartening — to find an upbeat, almost breezy Margolin in pajamas at her London home once the Zoom cameras are turned on. The close-cropped, blond Joan of Arc hairstyle she wore in previous years is now shoulder length and brown, and she punctuates her comments with an easy laugh.
This may have something to do with Porridge Radio’s fourth album, Clouds in the Sky They Will Always Be There for Me, which Secretly Canadian will release on Oct. 18. It’s a breakthrough record for Margolin and the band, and a cathartic sequence of songs in which the former anthropology major reclaims her identity after losing her way in what she describes as the “fog” of an intense breakup, after months of touring and promotion behind the British band’s excellent last album, 2022’s Waterslide, Diving Board, Ladder To The Sky, its first to hit the top 40 in the United Kingdom. “I have let go of my needs to be perfect and to be pure,” Margolin says. “I just want to have a nice life. I want to be with the people I love.”
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Clouds in the Sky finds Porridge Radio putting the hype of its 2020 Mercury Prize nomination well behind it and achieving a new level of artistry and sound. The poetry of Margolin’s lyrics has also evolved. Her songs have become more sophisticated without sacrificing the emotional wallop of her earlier work — a conscious effort on her part, and one of the subjects she discusses below with Billboard, along with the visual art she also creates and her tendency to fall in love easily.
You look very chill in pajamas right now, but on Porridge Radio’s records and at your concerts, you perform with an intensity that most humans cannot or will not approach. Do you live life outside of music like that?
You know I never really realized that not everybody experiences the world as I do until a few years ago. And it was quite shocking to me to find out that most people don’t have this kind of constant experience of their emotions.
What are the pros and cons of living with that kind of sensitivity?
It’s often very painful and exhausting to always feel like that. It’s a lot — but also, I feel that I have very strong connections with the people in my life, and I get to make music and share it, and people come towards me because of it. I always had this fear that it would push people away. It took having a really bad relationship that made me feel like I was too much. Suddenly, I was like wait, other people aren’t like this. They don’t have this intensity and why am I so weird? I’m always experiencing all the feelings of everything past and the future. Now, I’m okay with it. I think some people would kill to feel as much. Sometimes it’s incredibly difficult and painful but it’s given me a lot of love and connection and beauty, Also, I get to be in a band and go travel the world with my friends. I feel lucky even though sometimes I’m despairing.
It’s like in “God of Everything Else,” where you sing, “You always said that I’m too intense/ It’s not that I’m too much/ You just don’t have the guts.”
[Laughs.] That one is kind of cheesy. It’s so on the nose, but in a way, I was just like, right.
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These songs all started as poetry, right?
Yeah, in a way. They all started from me writing with more focus on the words. I was challenging myself to be a better writer. My songs always started as poetry in some way. With these especially, I felt that.
You refer to a swallow in some songs and in one, a sparrow. Did you have specific symbolism in mind in using this bird imagery?
I was looking for a symbol for a particular relationship that I was describing, and I was drawn to birds and the symbolism around birds. Especially with swallows, it was this idea of somebody who goes away and comes back, or somebody who is there and then they just disappear. I was thinking of migrating birds, and this idea of somebody who needs to travel because it’s in their heart. They need to go away. They need to be far away from you, but they always come back. Then I think by the time it turned into a sparrow, the idea of, I thought you were one thing — and you were something else.
You sing about you having to be someone that you aren’t.
Yeah. That’s me.
“God of Everything Else” reminds me of the Porridge Radio song “7 Seconds” in terms of the emotions that it evokes. “7 Seconds” is about a self-destructive relationship as well. Was that the same person, or do you fall in love easily because you’re so vulnerable?
You know, I do fall in love so easily, unfortunately. But no, there are multiple relationships. They’re from different periods of my life and very different people.
Dreams figure a lot into your songs. Is that a literary device for you, or do you remember and record your dreams?
I’ve always had very intense dreams. It’s not even a practice of writing down my dreams. It’s just that I have so many. I enjoy leaning into this idea of a dreamlike state, where the dreams I’m having whilst I’m awake and the dreams I’m having whilst I’m asleep are blending into each other. And I’m not sure which is which. What I like about poem or song is that something can be presented as real life, and you can’t necessarily tell if it’s a dream, something that really happened, a fantasy or a daydream.
Where was your head at when you wrote these songs?
I spent a long time when I was writing these songs feeling incredibly depressed and having this extreme sense of burnout. This feeling of fog that is enveloping me as I go around my life — of being unable to distinguish myself and my surroundings from these fantasies and imagined versions of what’s happening. I really wanted to bring that feeling into the songs which I think is what I almost do. The main one that really does that is “In a Dream I’m a Painting,” which was maybe the most literal version of that.
Was the burnout you were experiencing from a heavy touring schedule and making up dates postponed during the pandemic?
Yeah, definitely. We played over a hundred shows in a year. That doesn’t include the six months before that year that we were touring. We just didn’t stop. We were touring two albums and releasing one of them in the middle of that tour, and I was so tired. I felt like I had to do everything, but this is the first time I have had this opportunity to do this. I really wanted to — had to — prove myself, and I had to do it justice. The end result of that was I said yes to everything. We were playing loads and loads of shows. I was also doing interviews all the time and doing promos, doing sessions. And we were traveling. It took everything out of me.
Then towards the end of that year, I fell in love with someone and all these feelings of intense burnout, sadness and exhaustion were tying into this excitement and potential, and it was quite confusing. Then we got home, and I suddenly had nothing to do. I was just functioning and like, who am I? I didn’t know how to do anything, like go and have a coffee or see my friends. I hadn’t been home for so long, I was like, “Hey, can you ask me to hang out?”
And traveling the world on a tour has to change you as a person?
Yeah, you become a version of yourself that is constantly in motion, that has not quite caught up with yourself.
The covers of previous Porridge Radio albums have been your artwork. The cover of Clouds in the Sky They Will Always Be There for Me, is a photograph of you looking at a birdlike sculpture. How did that come about?
I made this sculpture of a swallow, and I made it whilst I was writing these songs because I was really focused on this idea of the swallow. I’d also been doing lyric paintings that reflected the songs either in their states as poems before they became songs, or after they’d been put into songs. I had all these different images. When we were recording the album, at that point we didn’t know what it was going to be called. I remember talking to Georgie [Stott], who plays keys, about what it should be. And somehow, we both secretly arrived at this idea that it should be a photo.
I was thinking that it should be a photo of the swallow sculpture. I hadn’t finished making it, but I knew that I wanted it to be a mobile which fit into this [Centre] Pompidou show we did in April 2024, which was this huge live show my sister directed which had all these shadows and puppets. Somehow, we realized that I should be in the photo, but then because of that, I needed to find somebody who could take the photo that I had in my head.
A friend sent me the work of about 20 photographers. I saw Steve Gullick’s work, and I thought he could capture this image that I had in my head. Luckily, he followed us on Instagram. I sent him a message that just said would you be interested in doing this. He said, “Yeah, let’s have a phone call.” I described it to him and did a sketch of the album cover and showed it to him. Then we spent a whole day in my art studio playing around with the swallow. My sister was there as well giving movement direction. He managed to capture the image that I had in my head. He really brought it to life. I love this picture.
Weren’t you inspired after seeing some of Alexander Calder’s mobiles and sculptures?
It was around the release of the last record. I was in New York and went to the Whitney [Museum of American Art]. They had this video playing of Alexander Calder’s Circus, and I fell in love. It was so whimsical in such a serious way —and so beautiful. I spent a long time watching documentaries about him and thinking about mobiles and shadows. I’ve always enjoyed the way that sculpture exists and interacts with the space, the world it’s in. I think the swallow mobile I made is very close to his work.
I love your word paintings. Have you gotten a proper gallery exhibit?
Not a proper one, no. I would love to have one, actually. Very fun. I have a lot of paintings from this album that I don’t quite know what to do with.
I first heard “Sick of the Blues” as a single before I heard the album. I loved it then, but where it falls at the end of the album makes it all the more powerful. It functions as both culmination of a journey and the start of a new one. Was that what you were trying to accomplish with the track list?
Yeah, exactly. We were all kind of amused because we didn’t know the first single was going be “Sick of the Blues,” which, for us, was the closing piece that ties the album all together. If you start with [the album’s first track,] “Anybody,” it’s this intense introduction that takes you through everything else that you’re going to experience across the album. Then you end with “Sick of the Blues,” which is just like oh, f–k it.
“I’m going to make it. I’m going to get through this.”
Exactly. It’s like — “I don’t believe this yet, but I will at some point. I’m just going to hope for the best and go for it.” And that was why it came at the end.
In “Sick of the Blues,” you sing, “I’m sick of the blues, I’m in love with my life again/ I’m sick of the blues, I love you more than anything.” It makes the listener think, “What do you love more than anything? Life or the person you lost?” You’ve done that with other songs, like “7 Seconds” — the lyrics are open to interpretation.
I think it is important that people come to the songs with what they have and what they need from them.
Based on the song credits, it looks like you work collaboratively with your bandmates.
This was the first time that I really felt comfortable having those credits with everyone. Even though the process was very similar in that I wrote these songs on my own, I showed them to the others, and over months and months, we arranged them together. We also did the preproduction together, and we were all in the studio together recording. It was all mixed with us together.
It felt like everyone was more a part of it than they ever had been. Their input was what made the making of this album feel fresh, even though we have been a band for years. Me and Georgie and Sam have made music together and been close friends for about ten years now, but this felt like the first time in a lot of ways that it was ours, and that I was really relying on them.
When I was researching this story, a lot of the press was about Porridge Radio’s nomination for the Mercury Prize. Now that you’ve come so far from that, with this album, where do you see Porridge Radio as a unit, a group of artists?
It’s funny. We’d already been a band for about five years, and then suddenly, the industry said, “Oh, this is a hot new band.” We weren’t. It was chaotic at the beginning, with us figuring out where we were in relation to each other. And it was me kind of figuring out I had all this emotional outburst to give and found the space to do it. I was like, “Oh, no one cares about this, but this is for us.”
Suddenly we’re this hype band and I’m getting the Mercury nomination. I was like, “This is amazing, because this means that I’m going to be able to do this as a job at some point.” I also remember being almost cynical about it. Like, the music industry chooses you for a minute, and then it spits you back out again.
And then came the endless touring.
We ended up touring a really long time, and I got so completely jaded by the whole industry — by the way you’re expected to tour and live. It feels like everyone is expecting you to do everything, you’re not really making much money, and you’re supposed to be so grateful for this thing that you have that is extremely painful and physical. I’ve seen so many friends go through this kind of whirlwind and come out exhausted, disappointed and alienated.
And now with this album I think we’ve made the best thing we’ve ever made. It’s so exciting to me. I loved writing and recording these songs. I’m excited to release it and tour it. I’m like, “That’s enough, right?” My goal is to enjoy my life; to just be in it and not worry too much if anyone cares — because sometimes people care and sometimes, they don’t. I’m letting go. I’m releasing my expectations of myself.
You feel like that’s finally happening.
I think this record has allowed me to do that, and even in the process of recording it’s the first time that I felt like I could be anything that I needed to be whilst recording. I mean, I was crying for about a week of making this, and I made it. Maybe what I’ve learned from this is that I’m allowed to be intense, and I’m allowed to have peace.
David Bowie said it best, “all clichés are true.” So, in the spirit of Mr. Stardust, here’s another: Bilal Sayeed Oliver is on some other s–t. The Philly native, who sharpened his skills in NYC with the help of the Soulquarians, first blitzed the R&B world in 2001 with his seminal, star-packed debut 1st Born Second. It was a critical darling that helped usher in what became known as neo-soul: a genre deeply indebted to past greatness that could only exist in a world in which hip-hop was lingua franca. Singles like “Soul Sista,” “Love It,” and “Reminisce” had his name set alongside contemporary greats likes D’Angelo and Maxwell, and positioned him as one of the future faces of the genre. But that’s not what Bilal wanted.
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In his head, he was a jazz artist who made, among other things, soul music. His subsequent projects would prove that out with him releasing albums that replaced the slick boom-bap of his debut with untamed jam sessions and improvised vocal experiments. His last full-length offering, 2015’s In Another Life was perhaps his most idiosyncratic. He and executive producer Adrian Younge pulled from Black music’s past to imagine a future where funk, soul, jazz, and R&B all collided into one beautifully contumacious genre of music. It was no surprise that Kendrick Lamar tapped Bilal that year to lend his uniquely resonant and limber vocal talents to his hip-hop and jazz fusion watershed work To Pimp a Butterfly.
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Now, nearly a decade removed from that impactful year, Bilal is back with a new album, Adjust Brightness, that he hopes is able to reach more listeners where they are but doesn’t give up an inch of the restless experimental energy that has informed the best of his past works. “I just wanted to make a vibe record,” Bilal says of the project that was created over a number years spanning all the way back to the Covid-19 lockdown.
But it’s much more than that: With just 11 tracks, the album swings from bright and boisterous at times to tender and hopeful at others. Adjust Brightness is simply Bilal at his best. Billboard caught up with Bilal right before the release of his sixth album to discuss his approach to creativity, painting as his new hobby, and the seances he attended in Morocco.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
The last time most people heard from you was around the time of In Another Life when you were all over one of Kendrick’s biggest albums. It all left people wanting more. What have you been up to?
I’ve just been making music, living life. The pandemic happened. I moved to Africa for a while. I came back and was able to get a nice recording space and I got into painting.
Where in Africa did you move?
Morocco.
What was the impetus to go there?
Family. My wife has family over there. So I went over there and it just turned into whole trip for me. A spiritual journey. It’s funny when you’re in a land where you know not many people speak your language. There’s such a different landscape in front of you that you kind of go on a mental journey in your own head. For me, [it was] my own adventure into myself and learning myself. And then it was Corona.
Were you over there for [Covid-19 outbreak]? Or were you back in the States by the time that happened?
It was like before that — and then during that and after that. But when it hit, [I thought,] “I’m just going to stay here.” And it’s crazy, ‘cause I couldn’t make any music, so that’s when I got into painting.
Why couldn’t you make music?
I always can make music, because I always have like a piano or my little laptop situation. But I don’t know, I wasn’t around my buddies. What I did was — a friend of mine, Tariq [Khan], he has a studio, HighBreed over in Brooklyn, where he found this way where you could link your setup to another person’s setup that’s somewhere else in the world and y’all could work together live. We did a project like that [and] it kind of sparked me into making music with my buds. But then I couldn’t anymore. So I went into a world of painting.
Interesting.
I mean, [there] was a lot to paint around me. You know, being in a different environment. So, I started to do that and it kind of got me into creating in a different way than I created before. Fast forward to where I am now, I was able to get a lot more visual in my music, in creating it, than I had before.
Right. And that goes with the title of the album, Adjust Brightness. Did you paint the album cover?
The album cover is a combination of a painting I did and an image of me standing in front of a light and it’s kind of pixelated and chopped up. It kind of phases into, if you look far back, a sunrise. But on one of the [singles’ cover art] was taken from a painting that I did in Morocco.
“Sunshine”?
Yeah, that’s taken from one of my paintings.
What is going on in that painting? It looks like a UFO abducting people.
Uh huh.
Am I far off or am I close?
It was a painting of a UFO inducting a Gnawa seance session, from when I was in Morocco. My cousin out there, I call him Simo, he loves to go to these seances, they’re called Gnawa sessions. Voodoo is to Christianity what Gnawa is to Islam. It’s like, you know, a lot of people don’t know that the Islamic slave trade is older than the sub-Saharan slave trade. Things that happen where you would bunch a lot of different civilizations and take their culture away from them and give them a new religion. The people would create saints out of their ancestors and venerate them under the disguise of religion. So, that’s kind of what the Gnawa is, and it almost felt like going to a Pentecostal church.
Word.
It was based off of this beat that they would make out of the throat of a goat. And when I tell you — this bass sound just like a combination of like, reggae mixed with some transient thing, and the men would just sing at the top of their lungs. And they’re playing this bass and it’s grooving. I don’t know what the hell nobody saying, but I am zoning out.
It’s all based off of these colors. And in these colors, people will come. The bass player would play a song and you would get entranced by one of the ancestors, and each ancestor had a color. So certain people would come with one of the colors that they thought that ancestor [would speak to them through]. And my cousin would come with all the colors on. Because he felt like they all talked to him. So I wound up staying the whole time at these seances. [Laughs.] And the bass sounds like Delta blues, dude. Because it only has three notes. It can only play like a blues scale, kind of. But the way they would groove that shit? Wooo!
Wow.
It starts at like 5:00 in the afternoon and it’s over 5:00 in the morning. And people are catching the Holy Ghost, passing out, freaking burning themselves. I saw somebody start stabbing his face and then they put rose water on it and it disappeared, like nothing ever happened. I was saying, magic happened. I felt like I was like a little boy again in a Pentecostal church. I was just zoning out, man, I felt like I kinda remembered again, you know? It was great. I was having a great time over there and I came back invigorated, you know? Inspired.
But that’s what that painting was. ‘Cause after one of them, I came back so, like, zoned out — I just started painting that scene that I was just at, and how I felt, ’cause if I felt like we was being taken up to another planet. It was amazing.
That is one of the most fascinating cover art stories I’ve ever heard, if not the most fascinating cover art story I’ve ever heard. Did you leave there with a song or a sound in your head that you had to get out?
No, like — I still haven’t digested it. You know, I’ve digested it through the paintings, but I don’t know. When I make music it’s not really intentional. I like to be possessed, and what happens when I come to — I’m like, “Oh s–t that was awesome!” I like to feel like a complete vessel. So when it comes through, it’ll come through, you know. But I just create. I definitely came back like, “Oh man — I wanna make some s–t.”
That reminds me of an interview Ed Bradley did with Bob Dylan, where asked him how he made some of his old songs and Dylan basically says he didn’t and likens their creation to magic.
Yeah, that’s it. That’s the whole point for me.
At this point in time, if you are a vessel, what do you think is flowing through you?
I make so much music now that I just curate what I want to put out because I want to be very intentional now. I’m doing it for the art form. Of course, it’s my Intention to reach the world and become extremely successful at this, but there’s also this charge to do it at a high level but also make it palatable in some way. And I think that’s what I’ve tried to do on this project. I tried to challenge myself to do dope shit I like to do but then also kind of do songs that I felt would be a meeting in the middle almost.
You don’t feel like you’ve have songs like that? I believe you have songs in the past that have accomplished that. Like “Soul Sistah”.
Oh, yeah. That’s always the challenge for me. Because I’m a jazz musician at heart, you know? I would love to just make a hodgepodge of everything going on. I’m not saying I’m doing anything where I’m crossing over or anything like that [Laughs]. When I say Adjust Brightness, I was like, “Man, I’m really gonna make a vibe this time.” This was my intention, just creating a feeling. So this was like a feeling of, for me, Adjust Brightness is warm and soulful.
How do you feel your music fits into the larger market these days? How do you see yourself in the land of playlists?
I don’t know. I hope it makes it to all the cool ones where I can hit like minded individuals on this same mission as me.
We see artists craft songs to cater to streaming and playlisting. This album, like most of your music, doesn’t seem to do that.
Pretty much. The only intentional thing that I did on the record was I wanted to be 11-11. So I was like, we gotta make it 38 minutes and 38 seconds and have 11 songs. That’s the type of intent I be having!
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It looks like there’s no executive producer / creative partner-type for this album in the way that the last album had Adrian Younge.
I think that was me this time. I was kind of just trudging myself along and because of the whole corona thing, it was like — the songs that I did at Tariq’s spot were just pieces. They were like half ideas, shapes, and jams that I liked but they weren’t finished. And then when I started to work with Simon and Tom, and we were doing songs like “Tell Me” and “Sunshine,” those other pieces started to make sense more and they kind of revitalized my ideas on those songs, lyrically and everything.
It’s funny — with this record, a lot of stuff almost ended up coming out as just mumble tracks, and I was thinking: Could there be R&B mumble like would that go over like mumble rap? My manager was like, “Do it. You can do it. There’s been rock groups where their whole shtick is there’s no lyrics.” And I was like, “No, in the soul world.”
On Black Messiah, there are songs where I know he’s saying words, but I can’t fully understand what D’Angelo’s saying. Sometimes it comes out of a feeling more so than a word. I think you could have done it, I think people would excuse it because your voice is so good.
Yeah, I mean, that’s what I wanted up doing on this record. For the first time I was letting go of a lot of stuff. I see myself as very meticulous at times but there was a lot of letting go where I was just like, “Oh, man, you’re right. Just let the s–t be mumbled. It feels good!” We came up with this saying, “Feels good, sounds wrong.” [Laughs.] And I was just like, “Man, it kind of goes with the thing of just making this record of vibe for me.”
What’s the one song from the album you want to make sure people listen to?
“Micro Macro,” because that’s the last song, and then immediately the album comes on again. It’s funny. I find myself like stuck in different places of the record.
How do you mean?
Well, I get to different places where I’m like, “I like that sequence.” I don’t play [the album] one song at a time. I tried to craft it in a way where another song would sneak up on you. In that way, I go into different labyrinths putting together the album in a way where it’s transformative, where you can always start at one point and go around.
The back room of New York City’s Heaven Can Wait doesn’t usually have a name, but on a breezy September evening, it has become the “Chaos Room.”
Red streamers, moody lighting and torn-out pieces of notebook paper with the words “I’M YOUR GIRL” scrawled across them adorn the walls. And sitting on a small side table is a portable Studebaker CD player, with a set of instructions set to its side.
“‘I’m really excited to share this project with you all, hope you love it,’” Orla Gartland reads aloud, giggling to herself as she arrives at the final sentence. “‘Please don’t take the CDs.’ God, I hope they read that part.”
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Gartland has good reason to feel protective over the disc — on it is the entirety of her sophomore album, Everybody Needs a Hero (out Oct. 4 via New Friends). She’s invited an intimate group of her stateside fans to come listen to the project and watch her perform stripped-down versions of a few of its tracks. Before the cozy club’s doors even opened, the Irish singer-songwriter had already greeted some of the attendees queued up outside.
“They are so cute,” she says. “Someone made a badge of my face! I was like, ‘Oh my God, you really put that in your badge machine?’ I respect it.”‘
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It’s an auspicious moment for the 29-year-old: since sharing her first cover on YouTube back in the late 2000s, Gartland has spent the last decade-and-change steadily growing a dedicated online following. With a penchant for confessional lyrics speaking directly to the generational experience of growing up online, she’s developed a reputation for her DIY approach to crafting emotionally arresting pop songs.
There’s still much of that homemade spirit present on Everybody Needs a Hero — Gartland is listed as a writer and co-producer on each of the album’s 12 tracks. But the LP trades in the quieter sensibilities of a young woman singing acoustic songs in her bedroom for bold, bombastic pieces of production. Blaring guitars and clashing drums are paired, and piercing synths turn up the volume on Gartland’s alt-pop, making for a dynamic project exploring the inherent chaos of romance.
“When I was younger, I dealt with a lot of imposter syndrome, where [I] felt inferior in certain spaces. This time, I was willing to take up more space, willing to commit to things, whether it was a guitar tone or a vocal,” she explains. “I was ready to push myself, and be a bit more indulgent; now I just love the drama more and apologize less.”
Where her critically acclaimed debut album Woman on the Internet leaned into softer, more detached songs about the trials and tribulations of twenty-something life, Gartland aimed to make the entirety of her second album revolve around one of her last long-term relationships, tracking all of its complexity in a single LP. As she explains, “I wanted the good, the bad and the very ugly.”
With that approach came an understanding of what Gartland felt was missing in a lot of pop music: nuance. “I think some pop music has a tendency to dumb things down, to be honest. It’s either ‘I love you,’ or ‘I want to break up with you,’ or ‘I’m so much better without you,’” she says. “My experience is so much more mushy and conflicted than that, and I’m much more interested in that as an idea. All of these feelings can co-exist, they do not cancel each other out.”
Throughout the 12-song LP, Gartland deftly handles themes of baggage (“Late to the Party”), self-doubt (“Backseat Driver”), manic decision-making (“Three Words Away”), being the messy one in the relationship (“Little Chaos”) and much more. When constructing the tracklist, she says that she thought about the “seasons” of a relationship, from the “reluctance and excitement” of spring, all the way through to the “humbling moments of embracing the darkness” in winter.
That thematic approach marks a pointed departure from Gartland’s past work. Starting in 2009, Gartland — then a 14-year-old living Drumcondra, a Northern suburb of Dublin — started posting cover songs to YouTube. Armed with only with a guitar, a camera and her distinct voice, Gartland covered everyone from Natalie Imbruglia and Fleetwood Mac to Lorde and Charli XCX before graduating to releases of her original songs.
Where most people look back on their earliest days on the internet with utter embarrassment, Gartland feels a sense of pride. Sure, there are some old videos that make her cringe (“I really thought everyone needed to hear my Nelly Furtado cover,” she winces), but she acknowledges that her time spent as a self-described “YouTube girlie” molded her into the artist she is now.
“At one point I really resented the YouTube stigma — I was worried that I wasn’t going to be taken seriously,” she says. “But I realized that, at least with putting music online, you are the master of your own destiny. It’s not like going on The Voice or American Idol; those shows are great for the right kinds of artists, but you have so little autonomy in how you are presented. I feel very grateful, even more so in hindsight, that it’s been a slow, steady marathon, not a sprint. I feel so lucky to have been in control.”
Moving to London at age 18, Gartland began to pursue her artistry professionally in what she lovingly refers to as the “garage years” of her career. “If you think about the trope of a band practicing in their garage, that’s what that was,” she says. “You get to have your garage years before you get to play your first live show. But when you grow up on YouTube, your garage years are online and readily available for everyone to see, which can be weird!”
During that time, Gartland met and befriended Lauren Aquilina, a fellow artist with a YouTube following looking to find a career in the music business. Aquilina would go on to live with Gartland for five years while breaking into the music industry as a sought-after songwriter, working with artists including Demi Lovato, Rina Sawayama, LE SSERAFIM, TOMORROW X TOGETHER and others.
Despite their shared aspirations, Gartland says that before she began working on Everybody Needs a Hero, she never wrote with her former roommate. “I have never been more nervous to ask anyone to write a song with me, because the closeness can make it harder,” she says. “It actually turned out to be just the most effortless thing in the world — you skip the whole ‘getting acquainted’ phase, where this person just knows your humor, they know the chords that you like. You get to feel very heard.”
Orla Gartland
Finnegan Travers
As Gartland began releasing a string of singles and EPs in the mid-2010s, she decided to start a Patreon for her fans, creating a curated community where experimentation was encouraged. For the last seven years, Gartland has been releasing one demo per month to her loyal subscribers, a move she says proved to be the most beneficial collaboration of her career.
“Sometimes [the feedback from fans] is like, ‘This is great,’ and other times it’s like, ‘The second verse could be better,’” she explains. “I’m up for their critiques, because those are the people that I want to come to shows. I want them to feel like they’re a part of the process.”
While the development of an engaged fan community has been crucial to the rising singer-songwriter’s success, Gartland admits that audience growth was something she rarely found herself strategizing about. What sets her fandom apart, she says, is the importance she places on the people who already follow her.
“I have a strong sense of what the people who already listen to my music want. I care about them the most,” she explains. “If I manage to catch some passing traffic and it grows a little bit, then great. But I think my response is to listen to the audience I have.”
Gartland experienced the highs of finding viral success in 2022, when her song “Why Am I Like This?” received a prominent sync on the first season of Netflix’s Heartstopper, soundtracking an episode-closing scene in which main character Nick (Kit Connor) begins to question his sexuality. The song quickly picked up steam online, earning Gartland her first entry on a Billboard chart when the track peaked at No. 4 on the Top TV Songs chart in April 2022.
But Gartland still flinches at the idea of the immediate, viral fame that apps like TikTok can occasionally provide to artists. “I’ve had a couple friends who had big surges of attention in one way or another, and it seems like that can be really hard,” she says.
Though the singer has a steady presence on the app, she says that she tries to keep the social media facets of her job at an arm’s length. “You cannot be an independent artist and be above doing a few TikToks,” she says with a sigh. “Even though I grew up online to a degree, some of it feels like work. Some of it I really have to motivate myself to do. But, I see [TikTok] as a useful tool more than anything else.”
As she considers the role of TikTok in the modern music business, Gartland mimes a U-shape in front of her face. “I see the whole album cycle as a horseshoe. The bits that I love are at the top,” she says, pointing to the upper prongs of the invisible arc. “That’s writing, recording and being in the studio on one side, and then touring at the end once everyone’s heard it.” Her fingers then follow the horseshoe down to its lowest curve. “It’s everything in between that feels difficult — filming myself miming a song I’ve listened to one million times can get very annoying.”
After spending 2023 working with her friends Dodie, Greta Isaac and Martin Luke Brown in the glam-pop supergroup FIZZ, Gartland had a renewed taste for the dramatic. Working in a band proved to be an important learning experience for Gartland, and a welcome break from the pure ego of a solo career.
“With my own music, there’s this very direct ownership to it all. You have nothing to hide behind, and you’re thinking about yourself a lot, which feels very odd,” she explains. “There was something really fun about FIZZ — the goal was literally to just have fun and be theatrical, be camp. There was almost a cockiness to it that feels so much easier. The otherness of it made it much easier to lean in.”
While she reached one end of the horseshoe with FIZZ in 2023 — the group played multiple festivals and embarked on a 7-date U.K. tour — Gartland found herself at the other end in her solo career. Teaming up with Aquilina, her longtime co-producer Tom Stafford and FIZZ co-producer Peter Miles, Gartland began to craft her sophomore opus.
On the album’s closing, cathartic title track, Gartland arrives at something of a thesis statement. Over loud, fuzzy guitars, Gartland narrates a story of trying and failing to look brave in front of her ex, finally crumbling and asking for support as they navigate their breakup. “Honey, I don’t have much time/ My parachute has come untied/ I need you to hold me/ Stroke my hair and tell me it’ll be alright,” Gartland sings on the emotionally raw chorus.
“I’d been thinking a lot about superheroes at the time — not in the Marvel sense, but in the sense that I observe in myself and in a lot of my female friends this want to do it all,” she explains of the song. “This wanting to be a great friend to everyone, and to be good with your family, and thriving in your career and everything else. I liked the idea of the self-appointed hero; this slightly manic girl trying to do it all, and saving everyone but herself.”
As an artist who spent much of her creative life showing others what “doing it yourself” can look like, Gartland acknowledges that the “self-appointed hero” can easily serve as a stand-in for herself. But as she looks ahead in her career, the singer says she’s not interested in becoming pop music’s new champion, especially if that means signing to a major label. Thanks to the work of artists like Taylor Swift, Gartland says she doesn’t feel the pressure to sign anywhere offering her anything less than ideal terms.
“I think in a post-Taylor’s Version world, the signal-boosting of what it actually means to own your own masters, what it means to be locked into a record contract, to be shelved — all of this jargon is out there now, and it’s really good for artists,” she says. “You’re seeing it happen now with RAYE, where there are all of these artists who are really proudly independent and thriving, and I’m just really happy to see it.”
That same concept, she says, applies to the trajectory of Gartland’s future career aspirations. “I would much rather have a slow rise at a glacial, snail’s pace, as long as it’s heading in the right direction and it’s sticking around,” she offers. “If I can do it on my own terms, then that’s f–king excellent.”
In one of the many unprecedented turn of events in K-pop this decade, the beloved girl group LOONA experienced an emotional split after terminating contracts with their label before each of the 12 members landed safely to pursue new K-pop paths. Alongside Chuu and Yves‘ new starts as soloists, to five members reconfiguring as Loossemble, the final step of these re-debuts came in ARTMS, consisting of LOONA stars HaSeul, HeeJin, Kim Lip, Choerry, and JinSoul coming together to rebrand themselves, reimagine their artistry and remember their roots as a new quintet.
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After releasing a series of solo and unit singles, the group launched their debut full-length album, DALL, to return the girls to the Billboard charts (main single “Virtual Angel” cracked the Top 10 on the World Digital Song Sales chart, while DALL itself landed in the Top 10 of World Albums), and to the delight of fans and critics alike (even earning a spot on Billboard critics’ Best K-Pop Albums of 2024 So Far list).
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Riding the exciting comeback success, the group is embarking on their ARTMS World Tour ‘Moonshot,’ which has already wrapped its North and South American legs. As they prepare to conquer Europe, Australia, and Asia this fall and winter, ARTMS is eager to reflect on their journey from LOONA to their current iteration.
Sitting down with Billboard at the New York office of The Orchard, ARTMS shine with a sense of unity, growth, and playfulness. HaSeul, more confident than ever in English, jokes about accidentally spoiling upcoming tour surprises, while HeeJin candidly confesses her hair is mostly extensions, JinSoul speaks about immersing herself into the A&R process, Choerry balances the group’s past with an exciting future, as Kim Lip looks ahead to what’s next for the group’s personal and professional lives.
Despite the challenges faced, ARTMS beam with a sense of pride over their collective growth and how they’ve taken control of their music and artistic direction. Here, the five idols discuss their creative evolution, navigating the K-pop industry post-LOONA, and their deep connection to the fans who have supported them every step of the way. Read on for more below alongside exclusive photos provided for Billboard.
I’m so proud to see ARTMS here in New York. Kim Lip, JinSoul, and Choerry toured as ODD EYE CIRCLE, but all five of you are here now. How do you feel about ARMTS’ first shows outside Asia?
HaSeul: I’m so excited and a little nervous too because it’s ARTMS’ first concert and tour.
HeeJin: Of course it feels great, and we have lots of thoughts on starting off strong as New York, a big city, is our first stop for this tour.
Congratulations on your first album, DALL, which got such great reactions. Was it a relief to get such a positive response?
Kim Lip: Since we’re releasing an album as ARTMS instead of LOONA, I was worried yet excited about how the public would react to our music. But we’re getting on the charts and receiving lots of attention, so we felt at ease, and I’m so happy to go on tour and meet with our fans.
HaSeul
Lauren Nakao Winn
How did you five come together and decide to move forward as ARTMS?
HaSeul: I was the last member to join ARTMS, but all five of us are very passionate about music. I think the members who came together and gathered [here] had the biggest will to bring ARTMS to life. When producing this album, I felt how sincere we all were about music…we had many solo and unit albums when we were promoting as LOONA, and you can see it as us continuing that identity. In a way, [ARTMS] can be seen as us taking back our identity. And since our skills are outstanding, we released solo, unit, and group albums.
It seems like you have more ownership and responsibility this time. There must have been pressure, but did it feel like you could share something more personal under ARTMS?
HeeJin: Usually, the company tells us what to do, but now, since we’re active players and debuting again, we wanted to work on the identity of ARTMS. We gave a lot of input in the songs and concepts. Our company took them positively and reflected them in our work, so I’d say it’s an album we produced all together.
I imagine reuniting with LOONA’s original producer, Jaden Jeong, must have been special. Was it fun to return to this production style?
JinSoul: We have had a storyline in our group [LOONA] and the fans like this aspect. We further developed the storyline by working again with Jaden Jeong, who [first] created this storyline — and it’s great to add ARTMS to it as well. While adding ARTMS’ colors, everything became more diverse. We maintained a bit of tradition for the fans, and it’s great to show more sides of us and go deeper.
HeeJin: I think fans love it the most that we’re going with the storylines and expanding onto it.
JinSoul
Lauren Nakao Winn
While we know about LOONA’s contract story, I’m more interested in how all 12 of you found strength and came out of it together?
JinSoul: The members share lots of conversations together. But during that time, we looked into what we could do and thought of methods to use to go through with it.
Kim Lip: The members cooperate well together, so we tend to respect each other’s opinions since we’re like a family. I think that’s how we came to a conclusion.
HeeJin: It’s also meaningless if we don’t do it together. So, we did it all together.
HaSeul: We are a family.
Putting the past to rest, if there are fans — whether they’re Orbits or OURII — who are still worried about you or want to check in, what words would you share with them?
HeeJin: We’re always simultaneously thankful and sorry to the fans. It took a lot of time for ARTMS to debut. Despite that, I’d like to thank the fans for waiting for us. There are also fans who became our fans as ARTMS debuted. We’ll promote more from now on, so please be at ease and keep an eye on us. Don’t worry…
Looking ahead, what are some of the special aspects of the Moonshot tour?
HaSeul: During our concerts in South Korea and Japan, we performed TWS’ “Plot Twist.” But for the USA, we prepared a different song to perform — “Cruel Summer” by Taylor Swift. I look forward to performing that song the most.
JinSoul: When we performed in Korea and Japan, we changed the choreography of “Sparkle” and “Flower Rhythm” for the concert version. Many fans looked forward to it after seeing the choreography video. We also do different ad-libs at different times, so I’m always looking forward to the various ad-libs we’ll do.
HeeJin: The setlists will be similar, but there are always impromptu changes during our concerts, so the fans can really look forward to it. In Japan, there was a moment we performed the same song twice and a time we’d suddenly go off-stage. I look forward to those kinds of impromptu moments. And, of course, I brought my guitar.
Kim Lip
Lauren Nakao Winn
How has it been reuniting with fans in the States?
Kim Lip: We just had a fansigning today. It was fascinating to hold new events like this fansign during this tour. There was one moment that I remember when one fan started to sing in front of us — the fans are very, how do I say this, open when it comes to expressing their feelings. They’re different from the fans in Korea. I really felt the way they so enthusiastically express their feelings this morning, and it makes me really look forward to our concerts.
HeeJin: That’s why I love it. Even if the fans in Korea really want to express themselves, they are very reserved. But on the other hand, fans in the U.S. openly show their support, so it excites us and gives us lots of strength.
Whether it’s your concerts or album production, what is ARTMS’ creative process nowadays?
HeeJin: We’ve been deeply participating in the process, but shall we start off with an answer from the main A&R member?
JinSoul: Jaden Jeong usually brings forward a lot of the music, but we look into the smallest details of the production. For example, we direct the vocals for each other or select the photos to be included in the album. We also selected the album cover design, hair colors, and styling. We participated in lyric writing this time, too. The company works on big tasks and we give our detailed inputs to showcase the best of us.
HeeJin
Lauren Nakao Winn
What are you really proud of to say you’ve worked on?
Kim Lip: We can proudly say that we wrote the lyrics for “Sparkle.” And the light stick!
HeeJin: We got ideas for the light stick and sent over drafts. The final design was our idea. And personally, during the “Virtual Angel” promotions, I wanted to dye my hair white because I thought an angel had a very white, bright image. So, even though I had to sacrifice my hair, I wanted to do it. I discussed it with my company and went on with it.
You’ve never been blonde; your hair looks great!
HeeJin: This is not my hair. [All Laugh] It’s extensions, my hair looks bad.
I’m sure your hair looks great. But from watching K-pop, it feels like the fans can give artists new chances today. Do you think the industry has changed from when you debuted to today?
Choerry: I definitely wouldn’t have expected this back then. We were very young. The situation the 12 of us went through was saddening, but I’m very satisfied with ARTMS right now. I’m happy to have released great songs with the members, my sisters. I also believe we have lots of time to spend with fans, so I hope we can have fun and come to them with better sides.
HaSeul: I’d say we were able to stand on stage again 100% because the fans were waiting for us. And it was made possible because we have fans. The reason why we look forward to the concerts on tour as the time went by is because we want to show a great performance to the fans who’ve been waiting for two years. We’re really looking forward to this tour.
Choerry
Lauren Nakao Winn
I loved HeeJin’s interview with InternetsNathan when she ranked every LOONA song. To give everyone the opportunity, I’d love for you to choose your “favOriTe” song released from LOONA solo days to ARTMS today.
HaSeul: I think “Virtual Angel.” Since the title song [single] is the song you listen to the most due to promotions, there are times you can get sick of it, but I like the song so much that I can listen to it in the car every day.
Kim Lip: “Hi High”? We had lots of solo and unit songs, but we went a long way to release the “Hi High” album. I think it was a relieving album for the members, staff, and fans who were waiting for a long time. I think it’s the most meaningful album; fans still love this song. I can call this my favorite.
HeeJin: I’m going to choose “Butterfly Effect” because ARTMS is starting anew with Jaden Jeong and he told us the story behind this song. It was one of the songs he wanted to release when we were LOONA. He held onto this song for six years and finally got it on the tracklist for DALL. The song feels like a continuation of LOONA to ARTMS. Some lyrics make you think of the past, so it became a song I love.
Choerry: I choose “Singing in the Rain.“ It’s my favorite song because, during concerts, it has a bursting beat and the sound is full and harmonious. And JinSoul’s vocals suit the song so it’s a song that I always wanted. It’s so good that I want to do a collab stage.
HeeJin: I want to do a collab stage for it too!
JinSoul: I choose “Butterfly.” I think this song really shows LOONA’s identity. When I look at past performances, there were times I looked shy, but I think this song was one I was most proud of. The choreography was amazing. It’ll be difficult for me to perform it again, but I think it was a synergy only we could show during that time.
Others: We can do it again! We can do it!
What can we look forward to from ARTMS from here, the tour, what’s next?
Kim Lip: ARTMS is…
All: Vacation! After tour…
Kim Lip: This is a secret, but I think we’ll prepare for the next ARTMS album after the tour. We don’t know the details, but I think it’ll be an album to really look forward to. But it’s not confirmed…
Both of those are important! Any last messages to fans if they couldn’t see you on tour this time?
HeeJin: Thank you so so much for waiting for us. Fans who attended our concerts will know, but even though we’re fewer members as ARTMS, you’ll be able to see perfect performances. We’ve become very experienced performers. Thank you so much for loving us and coming to see us. I hope the members stay healthy throughout the tour because we wish to promote the group to many people.
HeeJin, Kim Lip, HaSeul, JinSoul and Choerry of ARTMS
Lauren Nakao Winn
It’s been six days and I can’t stop listening to “Groupies & Goofies.”
Sometimes I’ll wake up in the middle of the night and play it on my phone a couple times before going back to sleep. It’s one of the best rap album intros of the year, right up there with the opening tracks of Future & Metro Boomin’s back-to-back collaborative albums. I didn’t know what to expect when Babyface Ray‘s team sent me his latest album, The Kid That Did, but I was immediately grabbed by the intro.
After diving into the rest of the album, I came away thinking that this is the Detroit rapper’s most ambitious project to date. He sounds confident, and with confidence comes big swings. Songs like “I Need Some Motivation” and “Delusional” showcase his versatility, while others like “Watching My Page” and “Nights Like This” “Legacy” show more of his personal side.
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Ray has been prolific over the course of his decade-long career, releasing a slew of mixtapes and EPs as a solo artist and as a member of Team Eastside. The Kid That Did, released on September 13, is his fourth solo album and his first since his Wavy Gang label entered a partnership with Empire earlier this year. With 20 tracks clocking in at under an hour, the album’s already spawned six singles with accompanying videos with more on the way. One notable single is “Count Money,” with BossMan Dlow, which samples the iconic pause music from N64’s GoldenEye 007. “We got the original composer from GoldenEye to do the beat over,” he answers when asked how they managed to get the sample cleared. But there’s much more to the story.
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According to one of his A&Rs, Dre Edwards, Babyface Ray’s team had a hard time clearing the beat (made by producer Rich Treeze), so they decided to reach out to Grant Kirkhope, the original composer of the GoldenEye soundtrack, to see if they could get it cleared. Well, it turns out that Kirkhope was already familiar with Ray’s music and gladly offered to collaborate with Treeze to make a version of the beat that would work for all parties involved. He even posted the video on his Instagram.
I caught up with Ray at the Billboard‘s New York office, where we talked about the making of what is probably the most important album of his career, how his rap style is informed by his parents and how he managed to get Rich Paul on the outro. Check out the interview below.
This album feels like your most ambitious. There are some records that feel big on there. Would you agree?
Yeah, big for sure. I know what you mean. I was just trying to show a little more growth this time and make it sound different from the last projects I put out.
When you were making this album, did you go in with the approach that this was going to be an ambitious record?
I think the records I picked were just more along the lines of what you’re saying. I had other records that I wanted to use, but I went more with that type of style.
Yeah, because some of the beats are different from the stuff you usually rap over. Were you aiming for that sound? Or were they beats that you were coming across that happened to grab your attention?
Yeah, what I was coming across and what I felt like wanting to do at that time.
Detroit has had its rap moments with the likes of Eminem, Royce Da 5’9″, D12, and J Dilla, but the last few years have felt different. What is it about this era of Detroit rap that resonates with fans?
Probably the rawness. Probably being able to connect with the music a little bit more.
What are some of your favorite records from this album?
“Nights Like This,” “High Off Life,” the intro. I like “Delusional.” I like “Stuck in My Ways.” There’s a few on there.
There’s a couple of tracks that you get real personal on. You mentioned a couple of them. Can you talk about why you felt the need to go super personal on some of those?
Really, just updating people on what’s going on with me type stuff. And, really on all my projects, it’s always gonna be a song on there that’s kind of like super personal and I get deeper on what’s going on for real.
The way you rap, it’s like you put people on game. Can you credit your style to your father being a preacher?
Yeah, if you know my dad, it don’t got nothing to do with religion or him being a preacher. That’s just how he comes off, putting us on game and just schoolin’ us and kickin’ it with us since we were little. I can definitely credit that to him, for sure.
Did you spend a lot of time in church when you were younger?
Hell yeah. All the way up until eighth grade, I went to church every Sunday. I wasn’t really too much a fan of church, though. Nothing against religion, but the whole going to church thing — I would just feel burnt out.
Did your parents give you a hard time for wanting to be a rapper at first?
They ain’t know. So, it was like — once I got old enough to get out the house and do my own thing, I was just doin’ that on the low. But I wasn’t a bad kid, so they didn’t have to worry about me too much. I was just doing it. They didn’t really find out until I became poppin’. And then people was telling them, and by that time, it was already too late. They couldn’t really have a conversation with me about it.
How do they feel about it now that you’re successful?
I mean, they ain’t trippin’, they love it, and even my dad, he be talking about it. You know, back then he really didn’t understand, but now he sees what I’ve grown into as a man. He can understand and enjoy my music. He can see where I’m coming from.
When would you say you felt that you was poppin’ as a rapper? When it felt real.
My first feeling was around probably 2011 or 2012. We used to get booked in the city a lot with my group [Team Eastside.]
In earlier interviews you had mentioned that you dropped out of college. Around what year was that?
I graduated [high school] in 2009, so it had to be around 2010.
That’s around the time you said you started poppin’, so you were already rapping?
I was already rappin’ throughout high school and all that stuff. When I got out of school, I was still staying with my parents. My pops was like, “You either gonna get a job or you gonna go to school.” So, I ended up choosing college and when that didn’t work out I just left the house completely.
Word, and you had said that they used church money to help send you to college.
Yeah, for sure. No cap. That really happened.
Rich Paul is on the outro. Can you explain that relationship? How did you guys link up? Was he a fan of your music?
He was a fan of my music. I met him through my partner, V, who owns a clothing line called Jack Ripp. He called me and connected me with Rich Paul, and then we hit it off just conversating about music. He really just wanted to talk about music, for real.
Has he given you any business advice?
Not really, head on. I just watch and learn from what he’s doing.
How do you feel about this album compared to your other tapes?
I feel good. I feel like I got some good records on there. I think people are gonna enjoy it. I’m geeked for it to get out, so I can see how the feedback is going to be.
Gillie and Wallo had mentioned that they noticed the ladies rock with your music on social media. Explain why you like to make records for them.
It’s always good to have a record or two for the ladies when you put a project out, because they’re consumers. And, really, I feel like it’s the women that get the men hip sometimes. You gotta have something that the ladies enjoy too.
Bossman Dlow seems to have that effect too. The ladies use his stuff on social media all the time. He did a show with Teezo for us recently and when he hit the stage, mad shorties ran to see him perform.
That’s fire. Dlow got a strong presence on social media with the women. I feel like the women be on it more than the men these days.
And you guys linked up on this project over the GoldenEye beat. How did that come about?
I had never met him. I was on Live one time just poppin’ shit and I said something along the lines [of] somebody talking to me in the club while the music was loud, and I was saying, ‘Stop trying to talk to me, Bossman Dlow is playing’ blah, blah, blah. And then it reached him and that kind of went crazy and he said something to me, and he came to Detroit, and we met up. We kicked it off like that. I did a song for him first, and then I was sitting on “Count Money” and I was like, ‘I think Dlow would sound good on here.’ I sent it to him and he sent it back.
You’re a video game head, right? What games do you play?
2K, Madden, NCAA. But I had woke up from my sleep, and seen my kids watching some s–t on YouTube, and I ended up downloading this new game called Little Nightmares. S–t fire. It’s like some horror-mystery shit.
You don’t play Grand Theft Auto?
I used to play Grand Theft Auto RP on my PC, but I stopped playing it. l was gettin’ burnt out on it.
You weren’t in Tee Grizzley’s world?
Yeah, I was in there. I was the only one with the Ferrari truck in there. That s–t turnt, for real, but I was getting burnt out.
What else you got planned for this album? You going on tour?
Yeah, I’m going on tour. I’m announcing the tour on Friday with the album [release]. That’s pretty much it. Hopefully, I can get a deluxe out because I do got some more records, more features, some more vibes that I wanna add to it.
You gonna put out more videos?
For sure, 100 percent.
Yeah, because you put out mad s–t already for this album.
S–t, I was just telling them. I got like seven videos already in, but I’m still trying to get at least two or three more.
After gaining momentum as a finalist on music competition show La Banda (where CNCO was born) and later earning his first Billboard entry with debut single “Pretty Girl (Tu Cancion)” in 2016, Johann Vera is entering a new era in his solo career — one that’s powered by authenticity and transparency.
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Last month, the bilingual pop artist of Ecuadorian descent released “Closet,” a melancholy, powerful ballad — where, for the first time, he tells his truth: “Why am I going to hate and fight with myself only because I love differently?/ How can a parent decide to lose a child only because they love differently?” he chants in the heartfelt lyrics. “I’m not going to change for anyone else.”
“It took me two years, but it pushed me to be honest and open with myself,” Vera tells Billboard of his coming out as queer. “[My previously-released single] ‘Cielo’ is talking about that first encounter and discovering this new side of liberty and happiness, and being more real about my sexuality. ‘Closet’ is about acceptance. I want to be as honest as I can be.”
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“Cielo” and “Closet” form part of Vera’s upcoming six-part EP dubbed Nada Importa En Verdad (Nothing Really Matters). “It’s about the struggles and ups-and-downs. Yes, I’m in love but also still have all these issues.”
In an interview with Billboard, the indie Latin artist talks about his coming out process, dealing with family rejection, and finding his purpose, thanks to his new single.
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How was your coming out process, and why was the moment now for you?
It was scary. I realized now that all my life I had this idea that sexuality shouldn’t be touched in my music or my art. I wanted to be a private artist, and not talk about my personal life. It’s not that I wasn’t honest — but there was always a filter, even on my social media, that was very edited and posed.
When I started therapy, almost three years ago, I began to realize a lot of things on how I’ve been handling life. Growing up with my family, I would get along with everyone and never had an issue, but I would hold back a lot of things. I wrote this song before talking to my parents. With family, it was a hard part — because coming from Ecuador, I would see their perspective on the LGBTQ community — so I always had that fear.
You mention living with fear and a filter, but can you take us back to how you felt the day “Closet” was born?
A few years ago, I wrote a letter to little Johann, and that night I had a writing session. Some words I began writing triggered me. I’ve been with girls and loved them, but at that point in my life, I was already with a man for a year. I continued writing the song, but I was struggling. So, I paused, talked to my songwriter and producer about how I was feeling, and “Closet” was born in 30 minutes. I didn’t want to continue living life that way. I had a big realization moment.
It’s a beautiful song, but also ultra-personal and very vulnerable.
I wrote the song for everyone to understand the struggle. All throughout your life, you feel like you have this flaw, deep down it felt like there was an issue. It’s very tough to break that barrier. Now it’s changing, but it’s still, even more on the Latin side, not going to be very accepting. The song happened and it was therapy for me. I didn’t have plans of releasing it, but after I started seeing how my close friends and colleagues began to react to it, I felt that I had to.
You wrote this song before telling your parents you were queer. How’s your relationship with them today?
Still not good. I actually told them two years ago, on Christmas Day, I had no expectations, but I invited them to therapy. However, there were no conversations afterward and it disconnected them even more. Now it’s not even a “How are you?” Before, I was the pride of the family — Viña del Mar, all the awards — and now, they feel like they lost a son. It’s tough.
They’ve also been clear and vocal about not supporting my new single “Closet.” Their side of the story is that I’m influencing people to do something wrong. I couldn’t fight any more. But now I know that it happened this way for some reason, and [my story] is helping people feel that they are not alone. It’s 2024 but apparently, we still need to have these conversations.
Your friends and colleagues have been very supportive.
Mau & Ricky came to my defense and called me when the song came out to tell me that God loves me. I cried so much. Lele Pons and Guaynaa came over too. I’ve been super blessed. After the song was released, I was locked in my childhood room… I just stayed there. The amount of messages and love that started coming in through DMs really helped me. The first couple of nights, I couldn’t sleep — but it was such a beautiful thing to go into my DMs and see how strangers were connecting with the song. The effect is crazy. Even if all of this is happening, I feel very happy. I’m proud.
What do you expect your music be like moving forward?
I just want to do music with purpose. I want to be more honest on that side. If I fall in love with a guy, I’ll sing about that, but it’s more about purpose. I feel that I can make an impact when talking about different topics. From all of this process, I want to be transparent and real. You realize in music how important authenticity is. It’s really about connecting.
As one of modern-day K-pop‘s top-selling soloists, Baekhyun hardly needs an introduction. But with the release of his new solo album Hello, World, the singer-songwriter is signaling more than just another musical comeback — it’s the start of a new era, where Baekhyun is equally involved behind the scenes as he is when performing the songs onstage.
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After his 2023 exit from SM Entertainment, the K-pop label where he spent 12 formative years as a member of EXO as well as its subunit EXO-CBX, and the Billboard 200-topping supergroup SuperM, Baekhyun established a new home at INB100, which also houses fellow EXO members Xiumin and Chen. While EXO’s group activities remain tied to SM, Hello, World is Baekhyun’s first release outside his longtime label, showcasing the growth and independence cultivated as an established idol performer and an increasingly more hands-on K-pop professional.
Hello, World tracks like the bossa nova-inspired “Rendez-Vous” and crunchy-yet-harmonious, electro-pop cut “Woo” strike a balance between the polished, silky R&B and jazz influences Baekhyun first showed in 2019’s City Lights (that peaked at No. 4 on Billboard’s World Albums chart and spent 16 weeks on the chart) to more experimental ideas he’s been eager to explore including a rap-like delivery on “Cold Heart” and the ’80s new wave-tinged departure into synth-pop on the lead single “Pineapple Slice.” Now having a production-heavy hand in everything from musical direction to visual concepts, tracklisting and fan connectivity, the superstar admits that his perfectionist tendencies slowed down the process but ultimately led him to the proper balance.
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“I’m a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to music,” Baekhyun shares during an afternoon Zoom call from a Seoul office. “I think [the album] was delayed because I was trying to find the right feel to release the perfect album, which was really born from the title track ‘Pineapple Slice,’ which ended up being just the song I was looking for.”
The lead single’s sweet-yet-sultry vibe became the cornerstone for the rest of the album, inspiring the 32-year-old to push boundaries and further personalize his creative process.
“Now, I want to express my opinion, my ideas and what I want to try,” Baekhyun adds. “I think it’s fun to build up from the primary stages of preparing for an album and working together with a team where I’ve been able to contribute more is exciting. I feel a bit more ownership.”
While Baekhyun’s comeback may look like a seamless return to form from the outside, Hello, World results from countless hours spent behind the scenes, meticulously crafting his sound and image to kickstart a new chapter with grace. For now, the EP is Baekhyun’s way of saying he’s back and ready to take on even more in his next phase, sharing with Billboard more about the album, the processes behind it, and how he wants to meet fans around the world.
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How are you feeling with this new album release? The album’s title is Hello, World, and the opening song is “Good Morning.” Does it feel like a new day for you as an artist?
I really like new beginnings so I’m very exited about this new chapter in my life and excited to show a greater audience what I’ve prepared. That’s exactly why I put “Good Morning” as the first track on the album and why I named it Hello, World because the first lyrics that start the song are “Hello, world” so I wanted a lot of people to listen and feel like, “Oh, this is the start.” The song was kind of made to feel like preparation for your heart to listen to the rest of the album; it has an overall very soft sound and I thought that it would be nice to build up musically throughout the album. I was very particular with the tracklist, so I’m very happy that the order of songs get progressively more climactic.
This isn’t your first solo album, but your first under your new company in INB100. Has the process been similar or different to past releases?
It’s very different from when I released my previous album. Now, I want to express my opinion, my ideas, and what I want to try, which I think is really good because I can try a lot of big, new ideas. I think it’s fun to build up from the primary stages of preparing for an album and working together with a team where I’ve been able to contribute more is exciting. So, I feel a bit more ownership of the album — I’m excited for it to become one of my favorites.
You enlisted in the military for almost two years, and it’s been three-and-a-half years since your last solo record in 2021. Generally speaking, what took so long?
I’m a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to music, and I think it was delayed because I was trying to find the right feel to release the perfect album, which was really born from the title track [single] “Pineapple Slice,” which ended up being just the song I was looking for. As long as it took, I really put a lot of effort into this to be able to put and show a lot more of the things that I wanted to do.
What kind of things were you able to do this time?
I had a lot of thoughts about wanting to show who I am as an artist in the long term which means that I should focus on the music that I enjoy and artistic decisions that I, as an artist, wish to make. Stylistically, a lot of the music is what I wants to do. The genre is R&B, but there are so many genres that I can branch out to further with that genre as a base. I even tried rapping on this album which was something new for me.
Second off, process-wise — the music video, the recording procedure and the visuals — everything was a little bit more “Baekhyun-centric” and I was able to input a lot more of my opinions. Instead of someone saying, “Oh, this would look good on you,” I was able to, I guess, reverse that process and say, “This is what I’ve been envisioning for myself, what do you guys think?” and move forward from there.
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You say Hello, World is inspired by movie genres with the album description saying, “A world where imagination becomes reality.” How exactly did you show this?
I’ve done a lot of different concepts throughout my career and I believe that the job of an idol is to kind of experience all these different sides you show. So, I thought that [making] the keyword “films” or “movies” would be a good way to put that in like one big box and express all these different things that I’ve done as one big genre. So, pretending that this is all a movie means I can turn my imagination into reality: I can be the stuntman, I can be a writer, I can be the director; there are so many different roles that go into making a movie…the “Pineapple Slice” music video is vampire themed and that also kind of taps into the fantasy and magic genre. But, once again, imagination becomes reality because, unlike the stereotypical vampire who is afraid of the sun and gets burned by the sunlight, my character in the music video does not, so it’s even these little twists that reflect back on the overarching theme of a world that I’ve imagined.
You can be very theatrical in your music, concepts, and even your vocals, but I’ve also read you are very low-key; right now, you’re in a T-shirt and simple hair. Does it feel like you’re acting when you go into K-pop idol concepts? Is idol life like acting in a way?
I think the job of an idol is similar to that of an actor, who acts according to the scene or concept. While I’m very satisfied with my job, I don’t usually like to wear makeup on a daily basis so that’s why I’m a bit more casual today. [Laughs] But on the other hand, I think there are differences. Onstage, I definitely focus on the moment and fully digest the concept in the song, but I don’t really feel like that’s acting — it’s not like I’m putting on a new persona. It’s more so that I focus on the moment and the job of performing the song perfectly more than being fake or pretending to be something.
The first preview we got of the album was the bossa nova-inspired “Rendez-Vous” performed during your Lonsdaleite Asia tour. Why was this song important to introduce your new chapter of music?
I wanted to show the most “Baekhyun-like” style from the songs I had. It’s been a while since I’ve been out [with new music], so I wanted to show fans a sound they were more familiar with instead of something completely new that would feel surprising or distant. I personally really like the song “Rendez-Vous,” like you mentioned it incorporates bossa nova, and that’s what I enjoy about R&B is how it can branch into and be altered in so many different ways depending on what you fuse in it.
Even since your last record, R&B music has changed so much, so it’s cool that you can do areas you’re comfortable with and play with something new in a song like “Pineapple Slice.”
When I first heard “Pineapple Slice, ” I got the feel within the first few seconds that this was the track I wanted to make as my single. I’d been searching for a song that has a very intriguing instrumental and catches the ear and “Pineapple Slice “did that. The bassline is very catchy so when you first hear it, I could kind of envision people listening and tapping their feet to the bass. And it’s different from his first three albums [singles] “UN Village,” “Candy,” and “Bambi” in that it has a stronger sound rather than the smoother, jazzy vibe. But the lyrics are very sweet, speaking about a male character trying to lure and seduce a lover, so I think the contrast is also very charming.
What do you think is the most surprising song on the album for fans?
“Cold Heart” was a track that, when I first heard it, I was very much like, “Oh, would I be able to pull this off?” but I really wanted to give it a shot. It was the first time I chose a song that I wanted to be better at; I chose it because I wanted to kind of prove that I could do it. I’ve spent so long as a vocalist, and this track has a lot of hip-hop influences and references, so finding the correct tone for rap was very difficult. So, I’m still feeling very nervous about this song coming out to the world and that the release day will be my “judgment day” since the fans will then be able to see whether or not I really pulled it off. I believe they’ll think, “Oh, Baekhyun sings this kind of song?”
It’s great to hear you challenging yourself in all these different ways under your new company. Why was it important for you to break out and create a space with your own company?
First of all, I wanted to meet my fans more and get a little bit more closer to them. And I always wanted to participate more in my own album process. With this question, rather than thinking about enjoying a new type of challenge, it’s more so that I really just wanted to get closer to my fans and listeners. Likewise, I believe that now I won’t have to take as long of a break between releases and hope to be able to come back in a quicker time frame. Working with my team and people, more possibilities are open for me in regards to things that I can do in the future, like producing, for example. Although there aren’t any set plans as of now, it’s a dream of mine and I thought this new chapter would open such doors.
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That makes sense because you’re keeping group activities with EXO strong and have EXO-CBX with you at INB100. More K-pop artists are balancing outside solo careers with group activities. How do you personally balance both sides?
Many fans want to continue seeing new sides of the group, so I understand that and we will continue to try new things and meet you in the future together. As for Baekhyun as a soloist, I feel that’s a little bit different from Baekhyun as a part of a group. So, in the future, I’m excited to show three different sides of myself: as a part of a unit, a solo artist, and also as part of a group. So I hope my fans are also excited to witness that journey alongside [me] as it happens.
Anything you can tease for your fans in this new era? Or other messages to the fans?
So, first and foremost, I’ll definitely be working on album promotions. Apart from that, I want to go on a world tour someday — and it’s definitely a possibility that’s, uh, not very far from reach. [Laughs] Since I recently finished my Asia tour, I want to branch out further to fans around the world…
To EXO-Ls who have been waiting for my album for such a long time, I’m so grateful for all of you and I want to promise you that there will never be a break like this again. I’ll show you a lot of great things in the future with new looks, new music, and all the cool things I’m ready to show the world. And like I slightly teased before, I’m ready to go meet more fans around the world so I hope that everyone stays happy and healthy until we meet again.
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For all of his musical accomplishments, Robert Glasper stands as one of the most versatile yet accessible musicians of his generation. In a recent chat, the Grammy Award-winning pianist and composer shared with Hip-Hop Wired his vision of The Black Radio Experience and bringing the soulful vibes to Napa Valley for Labor Day Weekend.
Robert Glasper has over a dozen releases that span the audio expanses of Jazz, Soul, R&B, Funk, and Hip-Hop. By way of the world-famous Blue Note record label, Glasper released Black Radio in 2012 and it was true to his interpretation of what a Black radio station under his watchful direction. The initial concept led to a Black Radio trilogy that concluded in 2022, and he’s still reinventing himself as an artist by way of his latest project, Let Go.
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Anyone who has ever attended a Robert Glasper show learns swiftly that he is, without doubt, a masterful yet playful showman whose dexterity as a pianist allows him to open his musical sandbox to a wide tapestry of sounds. In our talk with Glasper, we asked him what The Black Radio Experience means to him and how he intends to bring those ideas to life in the Wine Country of Northern California.
“The Black Radio Experience, just like you hear on my albums, it’s just that vibe and you can see the festival will feature artists that have appeared on the Black Radio albums like Common, Jill Scott, Ledisi, Terrace Martin, Derrick Hodge,” Glasper explains.
“It’s not about having the hottest song out or anything but a collection of artists that make songs that bring those good feelings out. These are artists who promote real music, love, honesty, and all of that from a Black and soulful perspective. That’s what The Black Radio Experience is and always will be,” Glasper added.
Glasper shared that while the theme of the Blue Note Jazz Festival in Napa has maintained that creed for the past three years, this year’s festival widens the scope with a focus on Black wine brands, chefs bringing curated menu concepts to light, and making the festival a safe space for celebration of the wide scope of Black creativity that includes the arts and dance as well.
“The festival is just an extension of the love I have for the music and the people and what I set out to do on the first Black Radio album, which is to say this is what Black radio stations could be,” Glasper said.
“When I made that first album, I was already immersed in different styles of music and playing it but committing it to wax was the next step, and over the years with the festival, we’ve been able to bring my vision of Black Radio to the stages and show that there is so much to us as a creative people,” Glasper shared.
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Among the headliners for The Blue Note Jazz Festival Presents: The Black Radio Experience, which includes the aforementioned acts from the albums, is André 3000. Three Stacks has famously moved on from the rapping portion of his career and leaning into instrumental music by way of his latest album, New Blue Sun. Glasper says that he found the Atlanta artist’s choice to try something new inspirational and that was his thought in creating his latest body of work, Let Go.
“I had so many people tell me that they listened to New Blue Sun and mediated to it or cleaned their house to it, hell, even I did the same,” Glasper said. “I had people tell me that they would do the same to some of my music and that was the reason why I partnered with Apple Music to drop Let Go. I wanted to give listeners something to reset their day to and even to inspire myself to take it slow.”
Robert Glasper will be in Napa, Calif. this Labor Day Weekend for The Blue Note Jazz Festival Presents: The Black Radio Experience.
To learn more about the festival, click here.
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Photo: Marc Fong/Blue Note Jazz Festival
Casual music listeners may recognize Syleena Johnson’s soulful, magnetic voice from “All Falls Down,” her 2004 Grammy-nominated Billboard Hot 100 hit (No. 7) with Ye (the artist formerly known as Kanye West). Yet there is several decades’ worth of music history coursing through those vocal cords.
Johnson, the daughter of the late soul giant Syl Johnson, is getting ready to unleash what she says is her final solo studio album on Friday (Aug. 30). And, as she explains to Billboard over Zoom, the road has not been easy.
“This album is probably my best work, and it is whooping my ass!” she quips. “It wouldn’t be this good if there wasn’t some drama that was attached to it.”
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Johnson is frazzled over the final mixes for Legacy, which serves not only as her final solo LP, but also a painstakingly crafted tribute to her late father. Led by the revelatory “Monsters in the Closet,” Legacy combines Johnson’s vocals with that of her late father, setting their tones and styles in conversation across 16 tracks that explore the industry-inflicted scars, the timelessness of soul music and the towering impact of Chicago’s music and culture. Featuring appearances from Twista and Shawnna, as well as fresh takes on Syl Johnson classics like 1968’s “Different Strokes,” Legacy is both a gift from a daughter to her father, and a gift from an artist to the sounds that sustain her.
Arriving in the throes of the ever-challenging balancing act that is being an R&B star and present mother — “[Creating Legacy] took time in the middle of touring, chasing around a superstar athlete kid and another child who is on the spectrum, high-functioning, mind you, and has piano and drawing class” – Johnson’s new record is a wholly family affair. The warmth of those familial ties, as well as the darkness of certain shared experiences, permeates the entire record.
Just as the contributions of her own family remind listeners of our general human connection, so does the album’s exploration of soul music, which marries the late 1950s beginnings of Syl Johnson’s discography with the 21st century sheen of his daughter’s. It’s a winning continuation of Syl Johnson’s own impact as one of the most sampled acts in hip-hop, from Public Enemy‘s “Fight the Power” to The Throne’s “The Joy.”
In a candid conversation with Billboard, Syleena Johnson pulls back the curtain on both her final album and her nearly three decades in the music industry.
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Why was now the time to come back with a new record?
I was already going to come back two years ago, but my father died [in 2022], and that changed things. My father was the legacy, the pinnacle of my music. I feel like [losing him] changed the tone and scope of the album. It changed the intention of the album, and it changed my motivation of why I was creating it. It took two years, which is unheard of for a person like me [who] can create an album in a week or two. Two years means I was mourning.
Every single track has my father in it, so I was trying to make sure that [the album] honored him and highlighted him as well as myself properly. I was okay with taking my time and getting it done right. The time is now, not because I chose it, but because God designed it for this time. Why? I don’t know, but we’re gonna find out.
This is the last Syleena Johnson album. We’re going to work Legacy for as long as we possibly can, because it has so much good material. Sometimes, you let the people catch up to all of the repertoire. I have 14 albums, there’s people that don’t know those records. Hopefully, Legacy will be powerful enough to [spur interest in my back catalog]. I will be doing the Chi album [with Dave Hollister and Carl Thomas], but as far as [my own] albums, I just don’t want to do anymore.
Was there a specific moment in which you knew that this would be the final Syleena Johnson album?
Yes. I recorded eight records, and they were good. We were thinking of just doing an EP, so I went to Chicago to Toxic Studios, my producers, my musical family. I went there to touch up vocals on a record, and they started playing all this music. I just got sadder and sadder because I knew I [was going to] have to record all of these because they were so good. It was like a happy-sad moment. I was like, “Oh my God!” creatively, but the adult in me that has been in this business for over three decades was like, “Again? Okay. I’m not free. We have to continue.”
And then I realized this album is getting ready to go to a different level, That’s when I knew: I’m going to give them 16 records, give them everything I have vocally and lyrically, and I’m out. And I’m going to put my dad in it. Both of us are considered underrated, so I want us to not be underrated together in this space. I’m constantly going to be creating in some way, shape or form, but it’s the work part and [being] independent that’s just too hard.
The album literally blends your vocals with your dad’s. Why did you go for that approach instead of, say, sampling his original recordings?
First, I’m a creative, so I can’t do nothing that’s basic. I don’t want to do anything anybody’s ever done. This hasn’t been done before. Because we own the estate, it’s easier for us to get clearances – these different record companies that [own the song’s] publishing are not going to push back because it brings more money and more eyes to the project and my dad’s records.
I wanted to show people our similarities [and] the best way to show that is to put us right next to each other. There are parts of the record [where] I sound almost like my dad. I wanted to bring him in because I saw him in his last days. I saw him until his last breath. I wanted to remember him in the light that I put him in on this record.
This album has helped me understand how amazing he is as an artist. How he placed a record, why he wrote and sang certain ways, comparing his body movements onstage to my own, etc. There’s also lines on the album where he’s just talking to me and whoever listens to this album.
Did you go into the studio sessions already knowing what songs of his you wanted to bring into the fold?
No! My sister [who is also my manager and the head of our dad’s trust] is directly connected with the record label that bought my dad’s publishing right before he died. She told the producers at Toxic“ Productions, “You can create from these records,” and my dad had a whole box set.
I work with such talented producers, and one of my hopes for this project is that it blows up, gets a Grammy, and does all the things that an album can do. I want the producers to be recognized for this body of work that they helped me to create. Rafael Capone is mixing and mastering the whole project in a two-and-a-half-week period.
What was the first song that you knew was going to be on this album?
My father died on my youngest son’s birthday (Feb. 6). My son was turning 11 with a party at Sky Zone [at 10 a.m.] and my dad died at 2:00 in the morning. I had to go and be a mom, even though I was super sad.
Three weeks after that, I flew to Chicago and started recording. The very first song was “Monsters in the Closet” and the next song was “Watching Over.” Those two songs I knew for a fact were going to make the album. I couldn’t even get through recording and writing those two songs. I would be recording and just break down in tears and everybody would just stop and wait until it passed.
Every time I go in the studio, I don’t have many songs that don’t make it. That’s not my process. I record a specific amount of songs because I’m a storyteller. I don’t need to write a whole bunch of unnecessary records. That’s like if you write a book and go, “Let me write six chapters just in case.” Sometimes you will get some good records that somebody else wrote, and you save those in the vault or for a deluxe. Pretty much everything I recorded made this album except two things. I’m not a big fan of recording, I’m a live girl because that’s where you can really connect the fans with the music.
What was the most difficult part about opening yourself up on a song like “Monsters,” which draws parallels between the experiences you and father had in this industry?
There’s many stages of grieving. I was in a place where I was upset at this industry and what it had done to my father and I and our relationship. It’s an ongoing thing inside of the industry and it does it to all artists. The music business is dirty and cruel. It steals from you. It takes from you with very little deposit back into you. I’m tired of not telling the truth. We have to start telling the truth about what the hell be going on!
I know this is R&B, but we don’t always have to talk about love and pain. That’s what Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder and Donny Hathaway and my father did back in the day. I wanted this album to be conscious across all of its tracks.
Artists’ mental health is huge theme on Legacy, and the record drops right before Suicide Prevention Month kicks off. What do you want to see the industry do in terms of better prioritizing artists’ mental health? Have you seen anything get better (or worse) during your time in the industry?
The only that has gotten better is the fact that we [can do so much by ourselves] as independent artists. It’s not at the hands of the marketing department at your label. The flip side of that is very difficult because you have to use your own money and you have to do all the footwork, but at least you know where your money’s going.
In general, people and greed are the basis of the music industry. Because you’re dealing with artists, we are delicate in that way. We want you to like and buy into what we create because it’s tied to our actual livelihood. They don’t like it, we don’t eat. I don’t think people truly understand the depth of how stressful that can be. When you see all of these artists self-medicating, trying to calm themselves down, trying to not have anxiety, then whatever they’re using to self-medicate gets the best of them. It could kill them.
I think we need to do a better job of understanding the artists’ case and having empathy for them. We have to be these politicians and we ain’t politicians! We’re human beings and our job is to create music and soundtrack our lives. You don’t see nobody knocking on the movie score man’s house and cussing him out, and he’s creating the scores for all these movies for us to feel certain ways. But because we’re famous, we should be grateful that people even give us the time of day. Meanwhile, during the pandemic, the artist suffered the most. There’s no empathy for artists. People don’t care what happens to them. You hold us to all these high standards, and then you’re quick to forget us when it’s over.
People don’t value what we put into the world, and I feel like everybody should be valued the same.
“Black Balloon” became your first Billboard chart entry in over a decade. What did that mean to you, especially to do so alongside your dad, who’s officially credited as an artist on that track?
It’s a great moment because I’m 48. I recorded my first album at 15 [and] I am still out here. The people are still out here turning up/ I’m happy that God has allowed me to have this longevity and have and still be here in my right mind and talk regular with you, chile.
What lessons would you say were the most difficult for you to internalize throughout your career?
Trusting myself. Trusting my ears. Trusting what I really want to hear in my records and being adamant about it. I was 21 when Wayne Williams brought me into Jive Records and I would let the last say be someone else’s. Sometimes I might not be happy with it inside, but you just have to let it go. And that was that wasn’t all the time, that was rare. I was given a lot of creative freedom at Jive. It was just certain things [that] when I look back, I’m like “Shit, I should have just listened myself.” [Being an] introvert disconnected me from a lot people in times where I should have been trying to connect more. That’s another lesson: networking. And some of my introversion comes from fear of judgement, but I was very young. When you get older, you don’t give a f—k who’s around and you don’t give a damn. When you’re a young woman and trying to balance male egos, it’s tough. I don’t blame myself.
The NFL is gearing up for a significant milestone by hosting its inaugural regular-season game in São Paulo, marking a historic expansion of American football into South America.
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Amid this groundbreaking event, Brazil‘s own baile funk superstar Anitta will kick off the halftime show, Billboard can exclusively announce Tuesday (Aug. 20). Her performance is set to meld the vibrant spirit of Brazilian music with the exhilarating intensity of American football. “I am incredibly excited to perform in São Paulo at the NFL’s first game in my home country of Brazil,” the artist tells Billboard Español. The event is taking place September 6 at 8:15pm ET.
Steering Anitta’s presentation are NFL’s head of music, Seth Dudowsky, Senior vp of global event operations & production, Jon Barker, and director of event presentation & content, Tim Tubito, all in collaboration with Production Club. “When we talked about artists that we wanted to work with, Anitta was at the top of that list,” explains Dudowsky. “We don’t want to come in and make this very American and Western. We want it to weave into the culture of the environment that we’re at,” adds Jon Barker.
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In a discussion with Billboard Español, Anitta, Dudowsky, and Barker delve deeper into the preparations and expectations for this unprecedented NFL game, sharing their visions of blending sports, music, and culture to create an unforgettable experience for fans around the globe.
How do you feel about performing at the historic NFL game in São Paulo, the first of its kind in South America?
Anitta: I am incredibly excited to perform in São Paulo at the NFL’s first game in my home country of Brazil. Growing up here has completely shaped me as an artist and, of course, as a person. So it means everything to be able to bring fans around the world the excitement and joy of our amazing music and culture. It’s really a dream come true to be a part of this moment.
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Seth and Jon, how was Anitta decided on for this halftime show at the NFL’s first game in São Paulo?
Seth Dudowsky: We wanted to make sure that coming to Brazil, we were putting on the spectacle and the level of quality that you expect from an NFL event. Also, doing it in a way that felt natural and embracing the culture of São Paulo and Brazil. The most authentic way to do that is to work with artists and performers who are from those places. Artists who have been not only a face of Brazilian music, and what that represents around the world, but also being an icon in America as well. This creates a bridge for us to come from American culture down to São Paulo. When we talked about artists that we wanted to work with, Anitta was at the top of that list. It’s been an amazing opportunity, not only to have her perform at the game and help us create an incredible game-day experience for the fans, but also to help be an ambassador so that fans understand we’re coming down to Brazil. We’re going to do it in a special way that celebrates Brazilian culture.
Jon Barker: American football is becoming a global sport, and we are starting to play more games in different parts of the world. The opportunity to bring our game to São Paulo, Brazil, to South America, is really exciting. When you think about an opportunity to work with an artist like Anitta, it just elevates everything that we’re going to do. We don’t want to come in and make this very American and Western. We want it to weave into the culture of the environment that we’re at, so that fans who are coming to this game can identify with the entire experience. Anitta just brings that one hundred times for us, because she’s such a wonderful talent.
Anitta, have you previously followed American football? If so, what does this sport mean to you personally?
Anitta: I love sports in general, and I’m one of those fans who screams in front of the TV! With American football it would be no different. As a Brazilian, I love getting together with friends and family to have a barbecue and to cheer.
How do you plan to connect with an audience that might be experiencing both Anitta and NFL football for the first time?
Anitta: Music is something that brings us all together, no matter where you’re from or what your background is. Football does the same, so I think that uniting force from both music and football creates a natural connection to the audience. I hope this global audience will really enjoy the performance.
Seth and Jon, how important is local culture in choosing a halftime performer for international NFL games?
Barker: Extremely important. It’s part of the overall environment that we create. I know we’re talking about halftime, about Anitta, but it sits in the way that we think about decor and the use of color and pattern, and how that reflects local culture. It’s in the music selection that we use in pregame DJs and artists who are going to be singing the national anthems for both countries. It shows up in many different ways, not just in the music that we select at halftime. It’s integrated along the journey. When you start to see the decor pattern that we’re using, you’ll see that it’s reflective of Brazilian culture.
Dudowsky: We’re going to make sure that we are representing and being authentic to the culture there. One of the most direct and effective ways to make it feel like I’m seeing something that’s not just another regular season game [with] the way we’re using art, imagery, and music. To go back to Anitta, we’ll have assets that are going to be created both in Brazil and America. For the fans in Brazil, it’s to make sure that they feel like we’re doing something authentic with an artist they recognize and love. But also for American fans to see that content, to see Packers-Eagles highlights. With Anitta and Brazilian music, it gives [Americans] that feeling that this is unique and special, even if [they’re] not actually going to São Paulo to experience it.
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The NFL is focusing on global expansion and bringing American football to new audiences. As a Brazilian artist, how do you see your role in this initiative?
Anitta: Seeing the NFL grow football internationally has been great to watch, and when I saw they announced the first game in South America, I felt like the stars were aligning. I know many football fans out here in Brazil, so having the opportunity to perform for so many of my fans here and beyond is an amazing experience.
Jon and Seth, how do you ensure that the music appeals to both longtime NFL fans but also new audiences?
Dudowsky: On the music strategy point, one of my biggest beliefs is that music is universal, just like sports is. Every country on earth has their own version of what they love in sports and what they love in music. You won’t find a corner of the planet that doesn’t have those two things as part of that culture. While it’s universal, it’s also specific. Everybody’s music choices and opinions on music are personal. So we know not every single piece of music everybody’s going to love, and that’s okay. We try to work with artists that are authentic and are uniquely themselves and represent a space in music. We speak a lot with our office counterparts in Brazil and Latin America. We work with labels and trusted sources, artists, agents, tastemakers, people that really are on the ground and know what’s relevant.
Barker: It’s such a great line that sport and music are universal, and they don’t need to be translated; they just carry over. Who would have ever thought that playing John Denver in Munich, 70,000 people would just stop doing what they’re doing and sing together in unison? It happened! Sometimes we get it right, and sometimes we don’t. We experiment, and we see what hits and what doesn’t. You’ve got a different audience inside the stadium at varying ages, a different audience tuning in television locally, and a different one tuning in the United States.
How do we listen and learn from the local community? And how do we weave that into this game and create the environment that we want new fans in São Paulo to experience? That’s the process we go through, and I hope that each year we get better and better at it.
Anitta, can you give us a hint about what viewers can expect from your halftime show?
Anitta: While I want to keep a lot of elements of the show a surprise, I can tell you I will perform Brazilian funk! I can’t wait to do this in front of so many Brazilians at home, as well as the global audience who will be able to see the show as well. It’s going to be big, and I’m excited for everyone to see what we have in store.
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Last words?
Barker: I don’t want to be hyperbolic but we’re about to do something historic, bringing our game to a place that’s never been played before. The excitement that is bouncing off the walls at our headquarters in New York and Seth’s offices in Los Angeles is palpable. How we’ve been received in [Brazil] from the day we made the announcement that we’re coming has been overwhelmingly welcoming. I’m proud that I can be a part of something like this, being part of the NFL, and being part of a group that’s bringing this game to Brazilians, and have them, hopefully, experience it and love it the same way that we all do here.
Dudowsky: One of the things that keeps me energized and passionate about being at the NFL for over a decade is the opportunity to not only learn about these cultures, but to be a part of something that is happening for the first time. Whether it was in Munich or the first Super Bowl in Las Vegas, when a city gets the opportunity to do something like this for the first time, it just feels extra special. The energy, the passion that especially Brazilian fans come with, we couldn’t be more excited to see it with our own eyes and to be a part of it; and to see what the country and fans of Brazil do with this game going into the future.
Working with a global icon like Anitta has only made everything we’re saying even more tangible. Her team has been amazing. She has been fantastic. We’re excited to have Anitta and all the energy and excitement that she brings. It’s only going to add to what we know is going to be a really special and historic night in São Paulo.