Interview
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P!nk has always been a fighter. Whether it’s rising up for women’s reproductive rights or slamming body-shaming trolls on Twitter, the “Just Like Fire” singer is always there to use her platform to speak for the voiceless — a trait, she says, she got from her father.
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“My dad was my first God. He was a fighter, a boxer, a scrapper, street fighter. He never walks away from a good fight,” the star tells Billboard before the Los Angeles No Kid Hungry Dinner on Thursday night (April 27), where she was honored as a National Champion for her longtime work for the No Kid Hungry organization to ensure children across the country have access to food every day.
“He was also military, and we did car washes every weekend and I was marching on Washington at three years old. My stepmom was an army Vietnam nurse. She was partially responsible for erecting the nurses’ monument in Washington, D.C., and my mom’s an ER nurse,” P!nk continued of her “civic minded” family that inspired her from a young age. “Everybody but me was of service. I was like, ‘Oh, I guess I want to be a social worker,’ because I was a pretty messed up kid and my guidance counselor in junior high was the first adult that ever stuck up for me.”
While she didn’t turn out to be a social worker, she found that music was the perfect way for her to create a sense of human connection. “I love to sing and perform, and I figured out a way to make it matter to me and to make it more than just about selling songs,” she adds. “To, me it’s a life of trying to bring service into it, with being as honest as I can be about where I’ve been, what I’ve done, what I think and all my flaws and what I struggle with. So yeah, I think I was born this way.”
Her 10-year childhood hunger fight with No Kid Hungry began after she watched the documentary, A Place at the Table, which displays the harrowing reality of three individuals trying to find adequate nutrition in different parts of the United States.
She was so moved by the documentary, she reached out to Billy Shore, the founder and executive chair of Share Our Strength, which is the parent organization for the No Kid Hungry campaign. The two met for coffee in Venice Beach, Calif., and according to Shore, it took “five minutes” before P!nk was dedicated to the cause. “She’s just so down,” Shore tells Billboard, adding that P!nk has taken part in all types of No Kid Hungry events over the years, and even had a booth setup with info about the campaign throughout her Beautiful Trauma tour.
“My favorite thing about what Billy said to me was that this is a solvable problem,” P!nk recalls of first meeting Shore. “I’m like, ‘Oh, I like solvable problems, because most problems feel completely overwhelming. We look at the world and we’re like, ‘What do we go to first? Is it climate change? Is it racial injustice? Like how do we fix that?’ So for this, they’re actually fixing. I mean, in the last 10 years alone, there are three million more kids getting school breakfast. Their moms have a little bit less to worry about.”
She continued, “That makes me want to cry. As a mom, I’ve got two kids, I would do anything to feed them,” before lovingly looking over at her 11-year-old daughter, Willow Hart, who was sweetly reading a book nearby while sipping on a Shirley Temple. “I’m really happy to have her here with me tonight to be able to see what we do, because she’s finally old enough to really understand something outside of bake sales,” P!nk added.
Later on in the night, both P!nk and Willow were all smiles while celebrating the evening’s honorees at the dinner, which included Chez Panisse founder and food activist Alice Waters; chef and cookbook author Sherry Yard; and popular home furnishings company Williams Sonoma, Inc.
The evening also included a dynamic live auction to support No Kid Hungry, as well as a special dining experience curated by renowned culinary legends Waters, Yard and Mary Sue Milliken in partnership with talented chefs across California.
To wrap up the evening, P!nk accepted her National Champion honor from beloved actor Jeff Bridges (“It’s not every day that Jeff Bridges pats you on the back and says, ‘Job well done,’” the singer tells Billboard with a laugh). She also treated attendees to a stripped-down, acoustic performance of a few of her hits, including “What About Us” and “F—in’ Perfect.”
“When we hit a wall, we knock it down. When there’s no path, we create one. When someone says it’s not possible, we show them how it is,” P!nk powerfully told the crowd of 400 people while accepting her honor, proving once again that she’ll never stop fighting for the causes she believes in.
Got to sing and raise much needed funds to end childhood hunger in this country. 1 in 8 kids in America lives with hunger. Join me and get involved so we can make No Kid Hungry a reality. @nokidhungry📷 Tyler Curtis/ABImages pic.twitter.com/LUGwuNrvbk— P!nk (@Pink) April 28, 2023
In the fall of 2012, Richie Hawtin took to the road in the United States for CNTRL, a college campus tour intended to educate young audiences about the history of dance music. The run included lectures by day — and, naturally, dancing after dark.
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The timing wasn’t accidental. This was the dawn of the EDM era, with big room sounds lighting up mainstages at emerging festivals and mega-clubs around the U.S., pulling in a new generation of dance music fans like moths to a pyro flame.
Hawtin, sensing which way the wind was blowing, organized CNTRL to show nascent dance music fans electronic sounds beyond EDM, with Hawtin serving as a key figure of techno and minimal techno since the Canadian producer first got into the sound in the late ’80s. (His hometown in Windsor, Ontario was, after all, just a short drive from Detroit, the birthplace of techno.)
Over the last decade, Hawtin’s vision of getting the masses into techno worked — in fact, maybe too well. Over the last half decade the sound has thumped out of the underground and onto mainstages, with one strain of it in particular — tech house — becoming the United States’ most trendy and hyped dance music genre of the moment, supplanting EDM.
“It feels like what’s happened is, the sound of techno was actually influenced by that EDM boom,” Hawtin says over Zoom from his elegant home in Berlin. “What’s happening in the scene is really a mixture of techno from the ’90s and EDM sensibilities of big drops and personality-led music. It’s been a huge kind of jumbled-up, even confusing development the last four or five years.”
Once again reading the room, Hawtin decided it was time for another tour intended to educate audiences via the dancefloor. Wrapping earlier this month, this eight-show run — From Our Minds — hit cities in the U.S. and Canada and featured a crew of rising techno producers (“other like-minded weirdos,” Hawtin calls them) who he selected for their skills in making techno with a “faster, ferocious type of tempo and strength, but it’s much more minimal.” (One of the featured artists, Lindsey Herbert, in fact discovered techno while attending a CNTRL set back in 2012.)
Hawtin sees this crew — Herbert, Barbosa, Declan James, Decoder, Henry Brooks, Jay York, Michelle Sparks, with support from Deep Pedi, Huey Mnemonic and Jia — as part of a network of underground producers that gelled during the pandemic. He calls this time “a great incubator for new talent, as it kind of leveled the playing field. Anybody who could plug in a computer and stream or make good set had a better opportunity to reach fans sitting at home, and not going to clubs, and not expecting international tours. I think that was the thing, especially in North America, that helped a new generation of artists come through more than they had in the last couple of years.”
The post-pandemic moment in fact reminded Hawtin of his own early days in the scene — just one more full circle moment inherent in From Our Minds. Here, Hawtin reflects on the tour, and and on techno at large.
Given the prevalence of techno currently in the States, do you feel satisfied with where it’s all at? Are you satisfied with the sound?
Yeah, that’s a good question. “Satisfied” is a good word. I think part of me is satisfied that electronic music and even a form of techno has now really become mainstream. It’s huge. Where you could have said in the past on the big stages that it was a form of trance, or some form of house — now it is definitely a form of techno. And yeah, that satisfies the kid who always wanted to see more people come into the door of techno.
But it doesn’t satisfy my need to feel that I’m part of something which is alternative. Because I don’t think all the music that is played on the bigger stages now is actually made, created or enjoyed by people who feel a little bit different than the masses.
How do you mean?
I was talking to everyone on the tour, and we all kind of got into this music because we didn’t really fit in. We felt like we were the weirdos. I guess I don’t feel as weird as I used to be — maybe I’m pretty normal now — but that was a big part of the attraction, that it wasn’t what everybody else was listening to. So although part of my psyche can accept some satisfaction, part of my of my inner being was very excited and satiated and inspired to go back on tour with other like-minded weirdos playing stripped down, minimalistic music, and playing to crowds that when you looked out, felt like they were a bit of the outcasts and had found themselves on another dirty dance floor.
It’s almost like what you were trying to do with CNTRL, in terms of educating mainstream audiences about the roots of dance music, worked too well, and it’s like, “oh, no — it’s so big now that it’s become mainstream too.”
Yeah. Be careful what you wish for. I’ve thought about that a lot — how the juggernaut of techno grew to this size. I remember certain decisions [I made]; I even I reread a couple of old interviews back from 20, 25 years ago, and things I said or did to actually welcome people into this world. I never wanted it to be just so insular and insider that it became hierarchical.
Electronic music, techno music, the music that started my career and that grabbed me back in the late ’80s, was something very different than what else was going on [then.] It made me feel welcome and invited lots of diversity and introduced me to people I never would have met in any other circumstance. I hope those ideals are still on the dance floors I’m playing to. I think as the music and the scene gets bigger and does welcome all types of people, the bigger it gets, the less that happens and the more homogenous the dance floor becomes.
Why do you think size and growth induces homogenization?
Is there an answer? Can I make one without, like, talking down on someone? I think an open, eclectic, free-forming dance floor needs to be led and/or inhabited by lots of very open-minded people. And I actually think as much as the internet and social media has spread the idea of “let’s all be different,” it’s also spread the idea of “let’s all be the same.” When social media and these platforms are our main source of promotion, and marketing, and letting people know what’s out there — the bigger you get, the more focused it becomes on the image, on the sound, on the personality, on everything else.
The globalization facilitated by social media kind of flatlines things in a way where it all looks the same, regardless of territory.
When you’re thinking about music, and places like Spotify, and this long tail that they speak about, it’s all the weird stuff at the end [of that tail.] And the mass stuff isn’t just like, great pop music — it’s a lot of things that sound the same. It’s the same artists over and over again. I was just talking to a friend of mine about a rather large electronic musician who just had a new album out. I was like, “It just seems like they’ve invited a bunch of other people in to collaborate, just like every other pop album seems to do.” It’s so much the same.
You mentioned house big techno has gotten, but how is it evolving into those weirder spaces that you like?
Really, what I intended to showcase on the tour is the type of music I’ve always loved. It takes cues from what’s happening and from other strains of electronic music right now, which is definitely based upon a much faster, ferocious type of tempo and strength — but it’s much more minimal, which of course, I love. It’s stripped of most vocals and any other kind of sample references, and it’s just hypnotic.
I was talking recently with another artist who’d just done a gig in New York. It was a big warehouse party, but they were playing more of that [hypnotic] style of music and weren’t sure about the reaction, because people weren’t putting their hands up in the air. And nothing against hands in the air — [at] an outside venue or big festival, that makes sense. But in a warehouse where it’s dark and pummeling, I think the best thing you can do is let people lose themselves in music and maybe not react, maybe not look at you. Maybe you shouldn’t be on stage. At all of our events, we had everyone basically on the floor, or maybe one step up, just so people could see their heads.
A set-up that de-emphasizes the artist.
Yeah, it does. I don’t know if we want or need to go back to the the faceless DJ in the corner who never got any actual notice or respect — maybe that would be too far. As part of the tour we brought on a company called Aslice, which allows [artists] to upload [the setlist] after the event, and [people can] donate money to those songs — kind of like a tipping jar — to bring some more money to the producers who are making music, and who are just not making enough through all the different avenues out there, specifically streaming.
I’m part of [the company], and I feel very strongly about that kind of initiative. Because one, the artists and producers need that money, but two, it also reminds us that no matter how good the superstar DJ is at the head of the dance floor, if they’re not playing great music, they’re not gonna go anywhere.
Right. It also de-emphasizes the artist onstage and reminds people that it took a lot of artists to create that set.
This tour is also to remember and celebrate that we’re all wrapped up in music [made by people] who aren’t actually there. That’s a really special situation, where other people’s music is being played, and somebody else is controlling it and that people are losing themselves on music they’ve maybe never heard before or will never hear again. That’s not like 99% of people who go to 99% of the concerts out there, who are hoping to hear and sing along with their favorite song.
It sounds like this tour allowed you to present artists you’re excited about in a format you really believe in.
The the format of the dance floor, the dark warehouse, the simplicity of that, is the foundation of where this whole scene came from. As we said, we can be satisfied that it’s actually [become] so many different things. But if the foundation isn’t kept going, and if the foundation isn’t respected, and if the unseen artists and producers [aren’t respected], then it all starts to unravel. If I’ve played a little bit of a part in helping things grow over the last 30 years, and I also want to be part of making sure that foundation stays strong for the next 30 years.
Last summer, MIRROR made international headlines earlier than they had anticipated.
While most news stories noted how the 12-member boy band was revolutionizing Hong Kong’s music scene with a renewed fandom culture for local Cantonese pop artists, the focus was on the tragic accident at one of their 12 scheduled concerts at Hong Kong Coliseum. During the fourth show on July 28, 2022, a large overhanging video screen hit dancer Moses “Mo” Li Kai-yin head-on while also striking Chang Tsz-fung mid-concert, leaving the former in critical condition and the latter with injuries. The show abruptly ended with the remaining concert dates canceled as Mo Li and Chang recovered. Meanwhile, MIRROR and their team regrouped.
Nine months later, amid starts and stops due to the incident and pandemic-related matters, MIRROR took an unprecedented leap for Hong Kong music by releasing their first English single “Rumours” on March 17. A change from their Cantonese-pop, or Canto-pop, hits like “Warrior” (their 2021 social commentary fighting against dated norms with eight million views on YouTube), “BOSS” (the theatrical, funk-pop summer single), or “We All Are” (a piano ballad that marked the group’s fourth hit on Billboard‘s 13-month-old Hong Kong Songs chart), “Rumours” signals a new era for the group.
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With ages ranging from 34-23, the MIRROR members consisting of Lokman, Anson Lo, Frankie, Stanley, Alton, Edan Lui, Jer, Anson “AK” Kong, Ian, Jeremy, Keung To, and Tiger show confidence and maturity in “Rumours,” a significant step forward since their formation on 2018 TV singing competition show Good Night Show – King Maker.
Spiky, sonorous basslines soundtrack the group’s blend of singing, rapping and group chanting, while the James Bond-inspired music video shows the dazzling dozen donning dapper suits and high-fashion spy gear to pull off a mysterious heist.
The guys have spent their first five years together developing their boy band and individual careers alongside Hong Kong entertainment studio MakerVille, but agree that being together as 12 acts as a “base.” While still mentally and emotionally healing from last year’s accident, MIRROR say “Rumours” is a challenging but special project in partnership with Sony Music Hong Kong to help fuel their ambition to return to slaying the stage.
“We’re idols to these audiences; we have to stand up again,” says the charismatic Stanley, who leans into the camera when he speaks to Billboard over Zoom. The 32-year-old singer-dancer leads most of the interview alongside giggly, bubbly Anson Lo, 27, and Edan Lui, 25, to his right. “That’s what we should do.”
“We have a lot of people supporting us,” adds singer-actor Edan Lui, who listens and answers thoughtfully with pauses to find the right, and typically emotional, responses. “We can only say we’re ready to go to work and go on stage again.” Read more with MIRROR for reflections on the past nine months, their next chapter, plus song recommendations for new fans from each member.
To understand your background a little more, what are the characteristics of Canto-pop and how does MIRROR represent that?
Edan Lui: Canto-pop was very popular in the ’80s and ’90s, and the images around Canto-pop have traditionally been more for ballads and slow-paced songs; not really energetic or fast-paced songs. The lyrics have always been very meaningful and Hong Kong people can look into the lyrics deeply, which I think is one of the most unique characteristics of Canto-pop.
Anson Lo: But over the years, I think Canto-pop music has grown so much and I think there’s no difference between countries or languages in music. There are a lot of genres in Canto-pop as well, no different than in countries like Korea, the U.S. or Australia. There are different types of songs we can try or continue trying like we have for almost five years.
Stanley: Yeah, for sure. K-pop has taken over the markets for the past decade, but I do think Cantonese represents a different kind of style of music, especially in Asia. There are a lot of people who want to listen to music with Cantonese lyrics so there are multiple markets.
Paint a picture of the Canto-pop music scene in Hong Kong today. You were created on the singing competition Good Night Show – King Maker. Are there a lot of bands from reality shows?
Lui: There are many newcomers in the Canto-pop industry that come from our show, King Maker. We’re from King Maker One [the first season], there is II, III, IV, and V is coming. We’re just very happy to see that most of the new-artist award winners at many award ceremonies are coming from that show. It makes us feel like a family. It seems like these shows are producing all kinds of talents to contribute to the Canto-pop industry, so we feel really proud.
While you’ve been rising internationally, you had a tragic moment that had a lot of attention with the concert accident. In your own words, I’d like to give the opportunity for you to share what happened and your feelings on the incident.
Stanley: I would say, of course, it was a big accident. But this accident taught me how to treasure everything: Our job, friends, and opportunities to perform on stage. It influenced us so much for sure. We had to deal with our emotions—mentally, emotionally—so, it’s sad for sure. But we try our best to overcome all these kinds of feelings.
Lui: It was a big tragedy. No one wanted it to happen, no one could foresee it happening, and no one could really understand why it even happened. It was a really hard time for us, our dancers, and all Hong Kong citizens. We learned a lot from it, but we hope to learn lessons and try our best to treasure everything, contribute more to society and help more people. We hope our work and performances can bring back more positive energy and joy to our audiences again.
How are Moses and Chang Tsz-fung doing? Do you keep up with them?
Stanley: Moses’ parents share updates on Moses’ situation, so we’re not the best to give that update, but we’re in contact with them. I think they’re doing fine, everything’s going smoothly, and they are getting better.
I’m glad to hear that. Sometimes these situations can be very tough on the artist whose concert they’re at because they may feel responsible. So, how are you doing emotionally and mentally?
Lui: Different people have different ways of trying to get through it. For us, time is probably the best way to heal. But we also have our team mates, band mates, fans, and company. We have a lot of people supporting us. We can’t say we are fully recovered or even that we are “okay” after what happened—we don’t know—we can only say we’re ready to go to work and go on stage again.
Stanley: So many people are looking out for us; we’re idols to these audiences. We have to stand up again. We have to keep focusing on our work and bringing many great performances to our audiences. That’s what we should do.
As you somewhat close that chapter, you’re starting an exciting chapter with the release of “Rumors.” What does it represent in MIRROR’s story?
Lo: Simply, it’s talking to a girl and telling her, “If you ever heard a rumor that we’re cheating on you, liking you or approaching you.” It’s a very straightforward message. But it’s a very special project because it’s a dream come true for us to record a song in full English. The choreography is also very special because it’s, by far, the most complicated routine in our dance history. I think our fans have been really surprised by that.
Stanley: It’s a big challenge for us since the song is in English. We had to sing with different pronunciations and enunciations so we invited our producer Andrew…
Lui: Andrew’s actually our English teacher! He joined every session of our recording because we recorded one by one. Every session is, like, four hours so he’s really, really busy. He talked to us about pronunciation but also how to sing the song beautifully in English. But he’s really encouraging, supporting us, saying things like, “Oh, you did great, you sang well, keep going!” That’s why we can say we’re confident that it’s good. [Laughs]
Stanley: The lyrics are quite intimate and sexy—it’s not really similar to most Cantonese lyrics. So that’s a big challenge for us too.
It’s your first all-English song and you’re making some substantial changes. Why was it important to release an English song now?
Lui: We’re expecting to approach a broader range of audiences—like, maybe, the U.S.—and also we would like to meet our fans outside Hong Kong. I think releasing a full English song could get us far—hopefully! [Laughs] We’re looking forward to performing this song on stage for all the fans throughout the whole world so I think we’re pretty excited about that.
Stanley: Yeah, it’s a good step for the next chapter. We really want to promote Canto-pop to a worldwide audience, I think this English song is like a key to open the door for the audience to learn more Cantonese music.
“Rumours” kicks off alongside a new partnership with Sony Music Hong Kong. How is that so far?
Lo: We have yet to met a lot of people in the Sony Music company in person, but we’ve been putting a lot of input into the music, song arrangement, and music video so we’ve had quite good communication online and through our company.
Stanley: Due to the pandemic and the accident, so many projects have been put on hold. That’s why we’re starting over again, but I think we’ll have more opportunities now working with Sony Music.
Lo: It’s been like a dream and our honor to be working with Sony Music because they’ve helped us through a lot of things and, in a lot of ways, allow us to reach a wider audience, especially in the U.S., so we’re really grateful for that.
MIRROR is so solid as a group, but you’re also individually releasing solo music, acting, earning huge numbers on your individual social media accounts. How do your outside activities help MIRROR?
Lui: I think that is the special part about MIRROR—some of us are good at acting, some of us are good at singing, at dancing, in variety shows. Different members have different ways of pursuing their dreams. So, we have different [roles] when we’re solo, but it’s special that whoever is having solo success brings good things to MIRROR because MIRROR is our base. I think we have a good balance of group and solo [work]. People love us for us, and individually.
Lo: There will be dramas, movie shootings or solo singles, but being back in the group with 12 people, we shine even stronger and brighter. Together as 12 people, there’s a lot more energy; that’s more powerful for the audience and the performance. Being with the group really is a big part of being on stage.
Since “Rumours” may be the first time some audiences meet MIRROR, can each member share a MIRROR song to recommend?
Tiger: I would recommend the song “IGNITED,” it’s got quite an old-school sound but it’s my favorite of all MIRROR songs.
Anson “AK” Kong: Me too. [Group laughs]
Frankie: I would recommend “12,” it’s a Christmas song and that’s hard to find in Canto-pop because Canto-pop releases a smaller amount of Christmas music. But this song is really warm and about being together.
Lokman: For me, “IGNITED” too! Very funky, very groovy; I really like it.
Jer: I would recommend “Rumours.” [Group cheers] It’s such a high-energy song and it represents us as very sexy. [Laughs]
Jeremy: “BOSS” because I think it’s very energetic for us so it always makes me feel very happy and very strong.
Ian: I think “IGNITED” as well because it shows us a little bit differently than the other songs we have. And it’s actually quite unique in Canto-pop songs because we have this funky dance style so that’s pretty fun to present.
Alton: I have two ideas in my mind. “IGNITED” because I do love the funk style and, personally, I love funk music. But it depends on the mood of the day. If I’m going to a party, “IGNITED,” but if I’m going to a theme park, I’d recommend “BOSS” because the music video was shot in a theme park and is perfect for the family.
Stanley: For me, it’s “Rumours” because we put so much effort into it, so I hope listeners love it.
Lui: I also recommend “Rumors ” because I like the chorus; it’s refreshing. I also like the choreography, it’s really cool. We really put so much time and effort into this choreography so I feel like the performance of “Rumours” will be, maybe, the best we’ve ever done.
Lo: I’ll recommend “BOSS” because I think it’s, by far, the funniest music video we’ve had so far. It’s like a musical and we play different characters; it’s like a Broadway-type of vibe. When we released it, I think our fans were very surprised but also very pleased to see us in that funny way. So, I think it’s a really good experience to get to know the 12 of us.
Keung To: There isn’t really a proper English name for our first song [“一秒間”]… “In a Second”?
Lo: “During One Second”? [Laughs] Our debut song!
Keung To: Yes, our debut song! It was so important for us because it was our first song and our first time releasing as a group. It told everyone, “We’re coming.”
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J. Cole keeps a healthy distance between his adoring fanbase and his personal life, so the rare chances to get a deeper glimpse into his life are a welcome moment. In a new interview, the Dreamville Records honcho shared details about his life few knew such as getting caught smoking cigarettes as a boy, his love of basketball, and more.
J. Cole sat down with ESPN’s Lead By Example with Bob Myers, hosted by Golden State Warriors GM, Bob Myers. As one of the top executives in professional sports, Myers’ program might not seem like a likely spot for J. Cole but the interview was wide-ranging, revealing, and full of heart.
Early in the chat, the North Carolina artist born Jermaine Cole shared a story of how he was sneaking around at the age of 6 with friends and got into a pack of cigarettes. While Cole was trying to embody the cool of his older neighborhood pals, his older brother didn’t approve of his actions and told their mother.
Cole went on to say that the moment changed his life and that he learned how to model better behavior and began correcting himself whenever he strayed off his path. In a bid to not disappoint others, Cole says be became a “self-corrector.”
Later in the chat, Cole talks about being passed over at the Grammys in earlier parts of his life, his creative process, and much more.
Check out the discussion between J. Cole and Bob Myers below.
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Photo: Getty
Chvrches has never been prone to releasing one-off singles that aren’t tethered to either a larger project or is a collaboration with another artist. Yet the long-running Scottish trio is kicking off their 2023 with “Over,” a behemoth of a synth-pop track due out on Friday (Feb. 24) that represents a new chapter for Lauren Mayberry, Iain Cook and Martin Doherty — who celebrate the 10th anniversary of their debut album this year, and are using the new single to launch their recent major-label deal.
“Something that’s come up recently, that I thought was a nice way to frame this, is that we signed new record deals, and there’s kind of a new lease on life for the band,” Doherty tells Billboard. “It’s a chance for us to work within a new paradigm.”
“Over” dates back to 2017, a product of a few nights in which Doherty and producer-songwriter Oscar Holter would hang out and write a few demos together. “That was before he went on the craziest run ever,” Doherty says, referencing Holter’s work on smashes like The Weeknd’s “Blinding Lights” and “Save Your Tears” and Coldplay & BTS’s “My Universe” in the years that followed. “We were working on some stuff just for fun.”
The demo floated in the ether for a few years: the band knew “Over” could be a big song for them, but it didn’t fit on a project like 2021’s Screen Violence, which the trio wanted to write and produce completely on their own. At the end of 2022, the band reconnected with Holter, who wanted to revisit “Over” and help flesh it out into a proper Chvrches song.
The trio and Holter punched up the track and “got it to a point where everyone was happy with it,” explains Doherty, “and where it felt like somewhere that Chvrches could be going, potentially — that isn’t to say that’s where we’re going, but something that felt 2023, and not like something that’s been kicking around for a few years.”
In its newly finished form, “Over” is gargantuan, a more muscular version of Chvrches’ synth-rock sound with a classic Mayberry hook designed for expansive festival crowds. As Mayberry’s voice pleads for understanding and romantic comfort, the synth chords are smashed, lonely guitar riffs wander around and the percussion recalls a classic Jam & Lewis beat; the song has a gusto like it were made without album-track expectation or any of its limitations.
“There’s something incredibly freeing and no-strings about thinking outside of a long-form narrative, for the first time in 10 years,” says Doherty. “It’s quite liberating, and quite fun.”
After rising to fame and releasing their first four studio albums with Glassnote Records, Chvrches signed a new deal with Island Records in North American and EMI in the U.K. last year. Mayberry says that the label jump was the product of an amicable split at a time when the prospect of a new direction was appealing. “We’ve always been really lucky to have great partners with what we were doing,” she says. “Making some of the changes was quite emotional … But we’re really excited by what Island and EMI were bringing to the table.
“I don’t know if we’ve necessarily benefited from the kind of old-school approach — getting songs on the radio, et cetera,” Mayberry continues. “I don’t think that blueprint works for us. And a lot of that is based on — alternative radio in America is all f—king men! It’s all men! And there was a time, at the beginning of the band especially, where there was a narrative of, ‘Oh, we’ve just playlisted [another] band with a female vocalist,’ even if they sounded completely different than us. So it was really exciting to talk to people who viewed it more holistically, like, ‘Where are Chvrches fans, and how can we get things to them?’”
After touring behind Screen Violence over the past two years, Chvrches will head to Brazil in March for a string of dates supporting Coldplay on their global stadium tour, and Mayberry cryptically adds that “there’s another batch of shows that are coming, at some point.” When asked how much writing and recording they expect to get done this year, Mayberry admits that the band isn’t sure.
“Whatever we make next, we have to take the time on it,” she says. “It has to move the conversation forward in some way.”
“It’s an incredibly rare and privileged position after such a long period of time,” adds Cook, nodding to the decade-long run of the band since their 2013 debut, The Bones of What You Believe. “We don’t really have any kind of ceiling on things, or know this is how long this is gonna go on for. We’re just taking things as they come in, and as long as we’re enjoying it, we’ll keep doing it.”
The Project
GLOW, out Friday (Feb. 17) via Secretly Canadian/EEVILTWINN
The Origin
Wesley Joseph’s introduction to music occurred through his father, who was in a soul band when his son was born. Growing up just outside of Birmingham, England in Walsall, Joseph (real name Joseph Wesley Ripollés-Williams) remembers hearing music 24/7 around his house. It wasn’t until he saw an early video of Mac Miller rapping into a USB microphone that he realized he could make music from his bedroom, too.
When he was a teenager, Joseph bought his own microphone and used GarageBand to make what he describes now as “really bad rap songs.” After setting higher expectations for himself, Joseph improved on his DIY approach and sharpened his production skills so that he could ultimately make music his way and create a sonic world where he wouldn’t be boxed in.
In 2020, Joseph released his first song, titled “Imaginary Friends.” A year later, he dropped his first EP, Ultramarine, a project that he says shows everything he’s capable of in one, brief moment.
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The Sound
Joseph, now 26, is adamant about not being defined as just a rapper. “Ultimately, [rapping] is third, or fourth even, on the list of things I do when I make music,” he says. “I’m creative-directing everything, I’m producing, I’m singing, there’s so much going on.”
Ultramarine and GLOW are both testaments to his holistic approach to his art. The latter’s first single, “Cold Summer,” starts with an eerie string and piano intro before erupting into a hip-hop-infused beat with Joseph rapping and singing. The project also includes songs like “Sugar Dive,” a dance-influenced record with Joseph flexing his falsetto, and the alt-R&B closer “Light Light.”
While Joseph can’t quite pinpoint his sonic inspirations, he knows that his fondness and use of harmonies, melodies, bridges and chord progressions stem from the American soul music he grew up on. “The weird algorithmic makeup of my musical DNA that makes a bridge happen is probably because I grew up on soul music from America,” he says.
Joseph also has a visual background — he moved to London in 2016 to study filmmaking in university — which explains his cinematic approach to his music videos. In 2020, he released Pandomony, a seven-minute short film which he wrote, directed and scored himself.
The Record
The eight-song GLOW is an evolution of Joseph: he continues his growth by leading with his emotions. “Ultramarine gave me confidence. If that’s me as a baby, then GLOW is me going into school,” he says. For Joseph, GLOW represents the contrast between his euphoric highs and harsh realities. The project is therapeutic for Joseph, as he’s used it to embrace his fears and work through growing pains. “The feeling the record gives is almost like a warm glow in the darkness,” he explains.
The first half of the record — “Glow,” “Monsoon,” “Sugar Dive,” and “I Just Know Highs” — represents light, and the project then shifts to darkness with songs “Cold Summer,” “25,” “Hiatus,” and “Light Light.” Following Ultramarine, Joseph was still in a somber place, which led him to making the dark half first — yet he ultimately decided that having the project transition from light to dark made the most sense. “When you listen to it on loop, it’s a journey,” he says. “When you start it from the top again, it’s like being reborn, and just going through all of the contrasts of life.”
The Breakthrough
Early last year, Joseph signed with indie record label Secretly Canadian. “They understood exactly what I wanted and who I wanted to be, and are completely [facilitating] all of the things that I want to do, in the way that I want to do them,” he says. “I’ve always kind of seen myself as someone who did his own thing, and I felt like they saw the value in my potential.”
The Future
At the end of April, Joseph will embark on his first North American tour, performing in L.A., Brooklyn and Toronto. He is also working on his debut album, which he says is in only in the beginning stages and “definitely not” arriving this year.
Wesley Joseph
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The Artist You Believe Deserves More Attention“I’ve been listening to quite a little bit of Cleo Sol lately. I think she’s so talented. She’s got an amazing collective of sounds and [she’s] a really great songwriter. Little Simz as well. She’s definitely getting her flowers which is really good to see. I would say Sampha too, I think he’s one of the best artists ever.”
Kimbra is very aware of how big things became.
“Let’s be honest: me and Gotye’s names kind of became household names for a period of time,” the New Zealand-bred, New York City-based singer-songwriter reflects after catapulting to unlikely superstardom with their Hot 100-topping, Grammy-winning 2012 smash “Somebody I Used to Know. The duet went on to become one of the longest-charting hits in Hot 100 history, and remains one of the best-selling digital singles ever.
Over a decade later, however, Kimbra now finds herself picking up the pieces from a particularly turbulent period of her life since her last studio album, 2018’s Primal Heart. The title of her new album — A Reckoning, which was released last month — came to her before the songs did, as a perfect summation of what happened to her following a personal loss, the end of a relationship and a deal dissolution with longtime label home Warner Records, all amidst the pandemic.
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A Reckoning is the result of choosing to turn inward and confronting her own emotions and thought patterns head-on. Co-crafted with Son Lux’s Ryan Lott, with features from Erick the Architect, Pink Siifu and Tommy Raps, the honest, genre-blending body of work twists aggressive beats, R&B-influenced melodies and shape-shifting organic sounds around vulnerable confessions, prayers and empowering declarations. “Replay!” is an ode to compulsive thoughts partially inspired by Kelis’ vocal delivery on “Caught Out There,” while “Foolish Thinking” is a moving piano ballad composed as a letter to her future daughter.
“We love people going through the rough, and then emerging to tell us what the war was like,” she says. With a renewed confidence in herself as a storyteller and in her purpose as an artist, Kimbra is ready to share what she calls a “redemption story.”
It’s been a while since 2018’s Primal Heart. What’s happened since?
We’ve all been through so much. The Primal Heart campaign came to an end, and I began to think about what I want to say next. I went through a stage of really struggling to write. Maybe it was because I was struggling to articulate what I was feeling. I hadn’t landed on something that felt honest. I don’t want to sell people something I don’t really believe.
I wrote “Save Me” in 2020 as things were really collapsing. My relationship at the time was coming to an obvious end as well. I was breaking up with my label. My team was changing. I moved upstate. I lost my best friend out of nowhere back in New Zealand. Some real lows.
I think, sometimes, our greatest breakthroughs happen at rock bottom. “Save Me” was a bit of a breakthrough – that feeling of hopelessness and being stuck with yourself. I struggle with a lot of anxiety and difficult thoughts. If I hold them in, it gets dangerous. I named something in me that I needed to get out. That’s where A Reckoning began. I had titled it before I even had all the songs.
Did the thought ever come that music wasn’t going to be the space for you anymore?
No, and that’s the biggest fear of all: that music won’t save me, and I won’t be able to get out what I want to say. When you keep turning up and believing that there’s something there, it comes through. It took other people — like Ryan Lott, the co-producer — to help identify what the sounds were going to be to tell the story. It’s an act of faith to make an album. You can turn a s—t sandwich into a beautiful liberation. [laughs]
Was there a sonic mood you were striving for?
I think the cohesion in my work is often the storyteller at the center, the voice that leads you through these different worlds. There’s a juxtaposition in the aggression of certain sounds against something very soft and tender, which is really me in a nutshell. I have all these conflicting things that live within me. My art is an attempt to translate my inner world to be understood, like all of us. The sonic identity is ever-changing, because I’m ever-changing.
When you talk about longing to be understood, does that extend to your former label?
Yeah. They wanted to extend my deal. It was already at six albums. They wanted to go to eight. They wanted to pick the producer. I can’t work that way. I need to have the agency in my work to put the right people in place to tell the story. I don’t do this to just sell a product. It’s my life.
It was a rock to my confidence. That’s another kind of reckoning: How bad do you want it? Are you gonna fight to get your music out there, form the right team, and keep turning up when you don’t have also someone breathing down your neck saying, “When’s the record done?” Now you have to motivate yourself.
How did you assemble a team of collaborators on your own?
I met Ryan doing a co-headlining tour with Son Lux. He has such a strange sound world to his music. I bring these catchy melodies – an almost R&B thing. That was an intriguing combination. I often bring people in when I’m struggling to finish a song, or there’s something not quite right. Bringing rappers on to jump on songs, or bringing Questlove in to help the rhythm section of the track — who’s doing this in their own work that could throw another color into the canvas? I’m hunting for the moment when I go, “Ah, that captures something I haven’t yet said.”
“Gun” was written in a Rihanna writing camp. Are you writing for others often?
I’ve done a little bit, not a ton. The whole place was dedicated to writing, every person in the studio. Her vocal coach would come through and guide me on how to perform the demo as her. I’m trying to embody the strength I see in Rihanna.
I’m just a kid from New Zealand. I still can’t believe I have a billboard up in Times Square. I look at a lot of the pop stars as being a lot more strong and badass than I am.
Fake it ’til you make it.
Exactly. And that’s what I did for that song. I don’t feel like I’m the s—t right now, but I’m gonna sing “I’m the s—t, so shout my name,” because I know Rihanna would say that and sell that.
There’s a certain kind of oppression that happens to artists, where you start to believe that you are a product of the people. I had to confront the fact that a lot of people I trusted had broken that trust. It’s about building yourself back up again and realizing there’s this inner strength that deserves to be spoken out loud. I just needed to wait until I was at the time of my life where I could sing a song I wrote for Rihanna. I think it was meant to be mine all along.
Can you talk about the collaborative doors that opened after “Somebody I Used to Know”?
I mean, let’s be honest: me and Gotye’s names kind of became household names for a period of time. There was a lot of respect that came from that song. When I would reach out to my favorite guitarist, they would know my name and have an interest in working together. And it wasn’t just, “Oh, you’re that girl with the random, massive song.” It was, “You made something that I really felt.” What a blessing that I got to penetrate the hearts of millions of people all over the world.
Are there sessions that didn’t see light of day that you wish had?
Yeah, there are songs lying around with various people. I just don’t know whether to name them, because it might still come out. The mysterious thing about music is you make things, and they may not reemerge for another 10 years. That’s another act of faith, to just keep making things, regardless of what timeline they’re on.
Are there plans for a musical reunion with Gotye?
Gotye has been working very hard on music. I’m sure he’ll come out the cave at some point to talk about it. It is not my place to talk on that, unfortunately. I’ll leave that up to him. But, let me tell you… anything is possible in this world. [laughs]
Do you retreat from popular music when you’re making music?
That’s a good question. I do take intentional breaks. Maybe just instrumental music for a while. I think constantly listening to vocals is a lot of stimulus for a vocalist. If you listen to SZA all the time, you might be writing a lot like SZA. Sometimes I will just listen to Philip Glass records or something, so I can work out what is my most genuine melodic perspective right now.
I’m really inspired by artists that are very ambitious in their records. I think Kendrick Lamar is one of those artists. He takes on a spirit of jazz that I think is very important — being able to jump around a lot, but have a very clear message and vision. He knows why he’s here and what he’s doing. It’s aggressive, it’s tough, but he can really speak truth to a lot of things in the world, in a very prophet-like way. Frank Ocean has been one of those groundbreaking songwriters in the last 10 years that I still go back to, with some of the most timeless songs.
Do you feel you still grapple with imposter syndrome?
Totally. I have that mentality still of being a young kid, insecure in high school. The only way I try to combat that is to remember that everyone feels that to a certain extent. You got to accept that you never really feel, at any point of your career, that you’re deserving of that place, or that you’ve done enough work to get there. It’s trusting something I’ve done connects with the world. It’s bigger than me.
I try to be humble about that. If they believe I am this person that’s really helped them through it, then let me turn up to that. Even though I feel s—tty today, that’s the service of the work.
What is your approach to feedback about your music online?
More and more, I’ve realized that anytime you take a risk and try to do something slightly daring, there will be people who don’t like it. There are people who like you to stay small, especially with women. Sometimes when I receive negative feedback, I almost take it as an affirmation that what I’m doing is pushing into something new. It makes sense that someone hates that version I did of a Beyoncé song, or something. Don’t get me wrong: it can really deflate me when I get something negative. People can be very cruel. But f—k, it’s just part of it, man. Every job has its thing that you have to be able to armor against.
So many artists who have come before me have experienced people not giving a s—t when their records came out. They were reviewed terribly. And then years later, they’re heralded as absolutely game-changing. People’s perception of you is always going to be changing. You’re not in control of that. At least there’s a reaction! Better than people kind of being like… eh.
You mentioned covering Beyoncé – you recently took on “Break My Soul.”
I’m always looking to find a new angle on something. I love the dissection process of a song that we all know really well. It comes back to wanting to have fun with music. If I’m always thinking about what other people want to hear, it’s not very fun. But if I’m loving it, then chances are someone else is probably going to feel that same way.
You have a Soundfly vocal arrangement and production class. What are your thoughts on the amount of female engineers in the studio? Has there been a shift?
I’ve seen the conversation change most among men. That’s where it’s important. Women have always been talking about this, but if we’re not being heard or respected by the people that have the power, nothing changes. It’s the same with the #MeToo movement. What we really needed was men to be in the conversation, rather than just being outside of it. I’ve seen a shift there.
There’s a musicality that comes from women in production and technical roles that is different. The feminine in all of us is very healing. We’ve been living in a patriarchy for so long. I think people are sensing we need a shift. It starts with conversations. If more people talk about it, we’re going to be more open to our cultural settings changing as well.
As the dust settles after releasing this record, what goals do you have, personally and professionally?
I really want to take this music to people one-on-one, and lift people up after all this s—t we’ve been through. I’m excited for that.
I’ve written more music in the last five years than I think have in my f—king entire career. I have more bodies of work that I’m currently working on: one is highly collaborative, and one is super dance floor with BRUX, the producer who did “Replay!” We started writing a lot of celebratory, anthemic dance tracks. I’m working on a lot of very heavily leaning R&B stuff. And then I want to make a very organic band record.
As I approach thinking about motherhood in the future, it would be cool to get as much out in this time of my life so I can take a break for a bit.
Personally, I’m always on a journey to keep healing. I make music so that I can better myself, and to be a more empathetic person in the world. That’s always my hope, through the vehicle of music, that I’m growing as a person, and hopefully helping people.
P!nk acknowledges that parts of her new album, Trustfall, could be considered corny by today’s pop standards. Take lead single “Never Gonna Not Dance Again”: Produced by Max Martin and Shellback, the happy-go-lucky groove finds the pop superstar shrugging off problems large and small in favor of unabashed movement, and declaring, “One thing I’m never gonna do/ Is throw away my dancing shoes,” before the bright, splashy chorus kicks in.
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“Never Gonna Not Dance Again” is marked by a dance-pop earnestness that’s seldom heard at the top of streaming charts or in viral hits these days. “I was like, ‘Well, it’s kind of my formula, isn’t it? That sounds like a P!nk song,’” she tells Billboard during a January Zoom conversation of the single, letting out a sigh at the idea of a retread. “And then by the end of it, I’m like, ‘I don’t care. I feel happy. I don’t care if it’s cheesy!’”
Trustfall, out Friday (Feb. 17) on RCA Records, could have been a darker affair — after all, the follow-up to 2019’s Hurts 2B Human was conceived during the pandemic, during which her son Jameson endured a scary battle with COVID-19 at the age of three in 2020, and her father succumbed to cancer in 2021. Yet P!nk’s ninth studio album confronts personal trauma with tempo: working with a wide array of collaborators, from longtime producer Greg Kurstin to ascendant dance artist Fred Again.. to Swedish folk-pop duo First Aid Kit, the best-selling pop star pushes the pace on Trustfall songs like “Runaway,” “Last Call” and the title track, while learning to appreciate the growth that periods of loss often present.
“I think it is one of the best records I’ve ever made,” says P!nk. “And I feel about it the way I felt about Missundaztood and I’m Not Dead and possibly The Truth About Love. And so I’m really excited and anxious.”
P!nk is also eager to dive into her upcoming Summer Carnival 2023 tour, where the longtime arena headliner will bring her cavalcade of pop hits to stadiums across North America, beginning July 24. Although P!nk says that she has found a sense of calm thanks to time at home with her family — husband Carey Hart, and children Willow and Jameson — she also can’t wait to perform in front of the biggest audiences of her career.
Ahead of the Trustfall release, P!nk discussed how the album came together, returning to the road and the way TikTok has (and hasn’t) changed her approach to pop. [Ed. note: This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.]
What moves Trustfall into that class of albums that you feel like are some of your best?
It took time, because COVID gave us all a little bit of time. It’s been three years, and for a little while, at least, there wasn’t a lot else going on. Normally I’m like, “Okay, turn on the faucet, let’s go” — like a race to the finish, how many songs can you write? And they’re all meaningful to me, it’s all my feelings. But this [album] felt like, “Yeah, I felt like that last year, but I don’t feel like that anymore. Now I feel like this.”
The sequencing of this album was really important to me, in case someone does listen to it from start to finish. Because life is like this to me — it’s an emotional roller coaster and it’s a f–king journey, and this album is that. This album could have easily been, Side A is Roller Skate Time, and Side B is No Sharp Objects in the Kitchen Time! But that’s not life. Life is messy and beautiful and messy again.
It was so easy to name the record. I feel like getting out of bed, and getting dressed, and dropping your kids off at school, and being in a relationship, and parenting, and participating in elections — it requires a lot of trust. And most of the time, we feel like we’re falling backwards, and we don’t know where the ground is.
And so much has changed since your last record — which was less than four years ago, but the world has been upended in a lot of ways.
I think we’re all walking around with this sort of low-level trauma that we’re not even aware of. In the last three years, for all of us, this has been our generation’s “thing.” Growing up in a military family and having a dad tell you, “You’ve never been through s–t” — and I’m like, “Well, I have personally! It’s all relative, dad!” But then you’re like, “No, we really haven’t been through anything, as a whole.” And it feels like we have now, and are still, and we don’t know what’s coming next as a whole.
Plus, I lost my dad. And then a month later, I lost another person that was incredibly close to me. And then I’m raising little people, and celebrating my 17th anniversary — and I didn’t think I’d ever be able to say that, but neither did he. But yeah, it’s just life, man. Adulting is a lot.
What was that process like, in terms of experiencing that heaviness, reflecting on those themes and synthesizing into a handful of songs on this album?
Probably harder for the producer than it was for the writer. [Laughs.] Poor Greg Kurstin. When your writer walks in with the song “Hate Me” in their pocket, you know it’s gonna be an awkward day. God bless him — he’s been through so many of those days with me. I just walk in and start crying, because for me, I’m like an open wound walking around in the world. I’m so sensitive, and I can’t hide it. And so people just have to just watch me cry sometimes. Or I go on rants, too. That’s never good!
But I’ve always done that. “Family Portrait” was that for me. It was this really, terribly uncomfortable situation for my family, and [the song] was kind of like an outing. If you’re in my life, then you kind of signed a waiver that I get to write about it. Carey knows! So you just write what you feel. And that’s why I’m not writing like, happy love songs, because I’m useless when I’m happy.
When did these songs start coming together? Was it a burst of creativity, or over a prolonged period of time?
It was three years in the making. “Lost Cause” and “Never Gonna Not Dance Again” were the two album-starters. And “Never Gonna Not Dance Again” was my reaction to adrenal fatigue, cortisol, stress. It was like, “F–k this. If the world’s ending and we’re sliding sideways off our axis, I’m gonna get my roller skates. Let’s take a cocktail class online! What are we doing?” So those songs on the record were a reaction to, “I can’t care all the time. I also need to feel joy, and let that s–t run off my back.”
There’s a lyric in the song “Kids in Love” that goes, “If you don’t f–k up, then you’ll never learn,” and it really pops out.
I learn through experiential f–kery. I mean, that’s my whole life. I have to remember that as a parent, also. I have to remember that.
How you end up working with First Aid Kit on that song?
I’ve been a fan of theirs for so long. And then I went to the BRITs [in 2019], and they gave me this ridiculous award, and I got to sing with Dan [Smith] from Bastille. And we’re hanging out at the after-party, and these girls were there, and Dan introduced them — and I heard him wrong, so I didn’t know it was First Aid Kit. So I was thinking they were some band that I didn’t know about! I was like, “What kind of music do you make?” And they were nice about it. And I was like, “What’s the name of your band again?” They’re like, “First Aid Kit.” I was like, “Shut… the front… door. I’m your biggest fan.”
It was a full turnaround. It was like, P!nk didn’t know who the f–k they were, and then I was like, “No, you don’t understand! I’ve been listening to you forever! You’re from Sweden!” I was like, “Do you think like we can all start a band! Dan can be the singer, and I’ll learn drums!” So we started a band in our heads — me, First Aid Kit and Dan from Bastille. I think that’d be a cool band. But I just wanted to work with them, because they’re awesome. They’re my new Indigo Girls.
Pop music has also changed so much since your last album was released — TikTok is now enormous, and these years-old songs are being revived…
[P!nk visibly winces]
I definitely see that face you just made!
I’m sorry. I’m sorry!
Are you getting that a lot through your kids, the TikTok dances and challenges?
No, they don’t have phones. I won’t let them! I was asked to be on a TikTok two nights ago and I made them very upset when I said “No, thank you.” I mean, look, I don’t want to be a dinosaur. But I want to bring back Atari. [Laughs.] Play Frogger and ExciteBike.
Things have changed, and that’s not what I do. And I’m okay with that. The people that have been coming to my shows, we’ve grown up together. I’m a pop fan. I like The Beatles, I like doo-wop music, I like Broadway. I come from a different thing, and I’ve got to be true to me. I don’t get played on the radio that much anyway, so I’m not really going for that. When I’m making a record, I’m like, “Who am I? How do I feel? What do I need to exorcise?” And, “How’s this going to be [performed] live — what can I climb onto for this song? Or will I be able to say this without crying and humiliating myself?”
So yeah, I can’t do that. But that’s great, because there’s so many people that can!
The thing is, you do still get a good amount of radio play — “Never Gonna Not Dance Again” hit the top 10 of a few Billboard charts. And of course, you have tons of older hits that still get played on radio, and have been streamed millions of times. But I’m always interested in how veteran artists react to, and want to pay attention to, new technologies and platforms.
I don’t really know. With me, when you’re a certain age and a woman, they tell you that what you do doesn’t matter, really, anymore, so just do what you do. And I’ve kind of always felt like that — at 16, I felt like that. But I don’t write songs for other people. I’m very narcissistic when it comes to songwriting, in a very pure way. I write what needs to be written for me, and if somebody else can relate to it, then that’s awesome. We’re all having this human experience, and we’re not all that different.
And I love parts of it, too! Like, Billie Eilish — how do you even put a song out like that, and then it’s No. 1 on radio? Like, 10 years ago, that’s unheard of. These artists are pushing the envelope and we need them to push things forward. My daughter is obsessed with Olivia Rodrigo, and that’s awesome to me, because that girl fronts a full band and writes her own music and writes great songs, and I’m super here for that. I think it’s awesome. It’s just not going to be me.
You’re playing stadiums in a few months, and mentioned thinking about how these new songs are going to be played live. Where are you at in the process at this point?
It’s been a while, but we had a tour meeting the other night with all the key players, and it was sort of that first creative [meeting]: Thinking outside the box, what can we do, how can we top that, what’s physically possible more than once? Like, getting shot out of a cannon — that would be fun, but you can only do that once!
I walk away from meetings like that like, “Oh God, I forgot how much fun I’m about to have.” It puts years back on my life. It is so fun, what I get to do, and I love it so much. And I love that Jameson’s gonna remember it, because he’s gonna be old enough, and I love the people that I get to work with. And then I get new material — there’s nothing worse than going and playing a show, and it’s all the same. But you get new shit to work with, and you’re like, “Oh, I can do anything I want with this, literally! Can I fall from the ceiling and live?”
No ceilings on stadiums, though!
True. There’s that feeling where, “You put two Fenway Park [shows] on sale, for who? Billy Joel? Stevie Wonder? Oh, just me?” It’s very exciting, and I feel like it’s the longest fluke in history, too.
“We’ll never do a second album again,” jokes Inhaler’s Elijah Hewson, feigning the exhaustion that, at this time last year, was very real for the well-coiffed singer-guitarist and his Inhaler band mates.
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After two years of pandemic dormancy, the Irish pop-rockers stormed the stage in 2022, amassing more than 100 gigs in support of It Won’t Always Be Like This, the group’s blistering post-punk-goes-pop 2021 debut. The album, which was largely written and recorded during COVID, hit No. 1 in the U.K. and the Dubliners’ native Ireland, shocking the new-coming foursome.
And so came the need for a worthy follow-up — this time on a working band’s notoriously chaotic schedule. But the tireless lads pulled it off, booking long studio hours in early 2022, between tour stints and festival sets.
Just 15 months after their thrilling curtain-raiser — and with nerve-racking slots at Glastonbury and Lollapalooza now in the rear-view — Inhaler returns with Cuts and Bruises, another jangle-and-thump effort full of confidence and anthemic abandon, out this Friday (Feb. 17) through Geffen. The guitar-heavy sequel sharply merges callbacks to the band’s ‘80s muses — The Stone Roses, Joy Division — with touches of American fascination, courtesy of the band’s run of packed club shows across the U.S. last spring. Suddenly Bruce Springsteen and Bob Dylan have joined the party as influences.
After last year’s hectic return to normalcy, the band — Hewson, guitarist Rob Keating, bassist Josh Jenkinson and drummer Ryan McMahon — plans for a busy 2023, with another list of festivals booked, not to mention opening slots for Harry Styles and Arctic Monkeys. It’s easy to imagine a 1975-like obsession before this next album cycle is finished, although the band mates, who have been making noise together since their early teens, can scarcely believe any of it.
Billboard caught up with the ascendant band to retrace their wild 2022, unpack the origins of Cuts and Bruises, and learn how a well-timed documentary influenced their promising next chapter.
How was your very busy 2022, and being able to get back on stage and debut songs written in pandemic isolation?
Ryan McMahon: When we went back to gigging, seeing all these new, unfamiliar faces, singing back the songs was quite a shock to our system. And that was crazy for us to get back out touring and going into places in America, for example, where we never thought we’d be able to go and people knew our songs. We were talking a lot about how we’re very guilty of feeling like we’ve got this sense of imposter syndrome in our minds. We don’t feel worthy, in a lot of ways, of some of the things we get to do.
How has the reception been with U.S. fans, who have been a little slower to catch Inhaler fever?
RM: It’s surreal, because we always pictured America as this fictional place.
Elijah Hewson: I think people [in America] listen to music in a really different way than they do in Europe. Not that it’s like they don’t listen to music as much in Europe, but I feel like when we came here, right off the bat, people were very warm to us and we felt like it gave us a lot of drive and a lot of it made us feel like, oh, “Come on, lads.” And I guess it’s that age-old thing of Irish people coming to America and feeling like the whole world’s at their feet, at their fingertips.
Since you last spoke to Billboard, your debut album, It Won’t Always Be Like This, hit No. 1 in several countries, including your native Ireland. What’s it like to have a chart-topper in your own country?
RM: We still almost feel like it didn’t happen. I mean, when you get into a band when you’re 12 or 13, you don’t ever think that you’re going to go and take on the world with your boys. You just want to get into a room and make noise, because you’re not really that good at anything else. And so fast forward nine, 10 years later, and you wake up to find out that your album that you wrote during a pandemic is No. 1 in the country that you grew up in? It’s hard to put into words, really.
Let’s talk about the new album. First off, why call it Cuts and Bruises?
EH: I think we kind of realized that being in a band is maybe, sounds silly, but more of a commitment than we thought. Not in a sense that we have to work, but I think in relation to our relationships with each other. It’s a little bit like a marriage, and I think there’s always going to be a little bit of residual scar tissue left over after so many years of working and playing with each other.
We’re starting to realize that it’s important to look after those relationships and pay attention to them, and we have a responsibility to look after each other. And I think that just kept coming up, after the pandemic and being on the road together, it just felt like the only thing we could write about. So I guess the title reflects that, in a way. And it’s not a serious injury. It’s something that we’re able to brush off and heal from.
In a way, the pandemic bought you guys extra time to fine-tune your first album. But Cuts and Bruises was made in the real world, in between a rigorous touring schedule. How much harder was this one to finish?
EH: Switching between those two processes was very exhausting. And I think we all kind of crawled out the back end of 2021 just feeling like we were just really, really — not burnt out, but I think we’d given everything that we could, and I think in some ways the pressure of that, and the spontaneity of it, and the speed at which we did things probably did help the album. And thankfully, we had our producer [Antony Genn] in there to kind of light the fire under our arse, as he often does. And that really kept us on the straight and narrow while we were back in the studio.
How did this new influx of touring experience — and growing confidence in your abilities — influence the writing of Cuts and Bruises?
EH: I think we learned a lot of lessons on the first one, and I think when we came into the second we had a better picture of how we wanted to do things. … I think the main thing we said is we wanted less information, to let the songs breathe a bit.
I think we were just more confident, and you don’t have to add as much if you are confident in the songs and material. And that was the basis of what we went off and I think it guided us pretty well. But other than that, I mean, you’re going in hoping that you come out with something at the end that is bigger than the sum of its parts. I don’t think anybody really knows what they’re doing. And as David Bowie said, “If you knew what you were doing, it’d be boring. You’d be disappointed.”
Is there one song on the new album you’d point to as the guiding light for what this project is trying to say?
EH: Maybe “Now You Got Me,” because it’s about commitment to something, and a lot of the lyrics are about joining the band and stuff like that. And I think that paints a picture, for me, of the whole album and where we are right now.
RM: [The song] sums up just the overall residing theme of it being an album of love songs, about loving your friends, really.
You guys talk a lot about being in a band and your commitment to each other. I know you all watched The Beatles documentary Get Back, which touches on some similar themes. How did that impact how Inhaler functions?
EH: It couldn’t have come out at a better time for us to be preparing to go into a studio to make a new album. And it was also very interesting for us to watch that and watch some of the conversations that they’d be having with each other as the biggest and best band to ever exist. And we’re just watching it going, “Hey, we argue about that!”
The lead single “These Are the Days” is a big, anthemic song. How’d you land on it to introduce the new album?
JJ: It was funny, because “These Are the Days” was kind of overlooked at the time but we played it to our producers and our managers and they were like, “Hey, there’s something there. Let’s get cooking on that straight away.” Even though it was one of the later demos to arrive, it was one of the first songs we’d finished and we thought it was a good way of coming back into releasing music and saying, “Hey, here we are again. Are people still interested in us?” It just worked out in that way.
How about “If You’re Going to Break My Heart,” which is a departure for you guys? It sounds like an American folk or country song.
RM: That came to us from listening to a lot of Bob Dylan and The Band and Bruce Springsteen, and us falling in love with America, really, and touring it and visiting places like Nashville and sort of familiarizing ourselves a bit more with country music and the storytelling that goes behind that. In music, country artists are the best storytellers. I think that’s what we were aiming for. I think that song actually came fairly naturally to us in the studio, because it’s not super rigid-sounding. It’s a lot more loose and it sounds like a live band, which is, again, what we wanted to achieve with this record.
What does it mean to you to be a rock band in 2023 that’s still finding an audience in real life, especially as so many artists your age are living on TikTok?
EH: It’s everything to us. When we were kids, the most uncool thing you could do was pick up a guitar and join a band. And everyone was like, “Oh, that’s cute.” I think we were just doing it for ourselves, really, because that’s how we found each other — we just wanted to listen to Stone Roses and Joy Division, and it drew us close.
And we saw Arctic Monkeys came out with AM in 2013 and that was very guitar-driven, and “Do I Wanna Know?,” it was a huge single, and I think that gave us a little bit of hope. And I also think that maybe people are just sick of hearing stuff that doesn’t feel authentic. And I think it doesn’t get much more authentic than hearing the clang of a guitar, and that’s a very visceral, physical sound. Maybe that’s why people like listening to bands like us, I guess. But we’re still like, a “pop and roll.” We’re not like idols. We’re still very kind of freaked out that this has even happened.
Two decades after breaking through on a national level, T.I. is still writing his legacy.
While Tip usually shies away from watching scary movies himself, the hip-hop polymath expanded his filmography by starring in the psychological horror movie Fear, which hit theaters in January. In addition to playing Lou in the Deon Taylor-directed independent flick — joining a cast that included Power’s Joseph Sikora, Terrence J, Tyler Abron, King Bach and Rudy Modine — T.I. also served as a producer and investor in the movie, which was filmed in the midst of the pandemic.
And he and DaBaby linked up in Charlotte in early January for a soundtrack collaboration, also titled “Fear.” DaBaby tells Billboard, “My guy Deon Taylor called me and I got to see the trailer for the film and I got to curate the song directly off that. [Deon’s] quickly become one of my mentors in the last couple of months. Ever since I ran into him at Draymond Green’s wedding, he asked me if I was interested in being on the big screen since he saw some of my music videos. I told him, ‘Absolutely.’”
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Will T.I. follow up that project with a Super Bowl cameo? The rapper has been rumored to make a guest appearance at Rihanna’s Super Bowl LVII halftime show to perform their Hot 100-topping 2008 duet “Live Your Life.” T.I. caught up with Billboard to discuss the Super Bowl possibility, his ranking on Billboard and Vibe‘s greatest rappers list, Drake interpolating “24’s” on Her Loss, and more.
How was working with DaBaby on “Fear” for the Fear soundtrack?
T.I.: It was dope. Me and bro had a mutual respect for a long time. I always spoke about working together and working on film. He’s been picking my brain about it. With his videos, you can tell he’s got chops and he’s ready to evolve into another form of storytelling. I’m eager to assist the next generation however I can.
DaBaby and Deon Taylor attend “Fear” World Premiere at Directors Guild Of America on January 21, 2023 in Los Angeles, California.
Arnold Turner/GI for Hidden Empire Film Group
How did you feel about showing up on our greatest rappers list at No. 32?
There’s so many phenomenal talents, prolific artists and iconic figures that have passed through this culture. I ain’t got no time to hold no emotions about it. I’m just thankful to be here, thankful to be part of the collective that gets to do what we love for a living and inspire people on a daily basis. I’m just happy to be around the elite. The people I used to wake up not wanting to go to school and listen to. I’m on a list with them.
Now I became the person that little truancies used to get up and not want to go to school. It’s an honor and a privilege and a pleasure to be on that list. I think it’s some people that I came before I think that I should’ve went behind. What’s the process? So people just saying let’s piss people off? If you wanna piss people off and get instant engagement, make a list about anything.
What did you think about Drake interpolating your song “24’s” for “Rich Flex” on Her Loss?
I think it’s dope. I think it’s incredible, on the 20th anniversary of Trap Muzik this year, we’re still showing the relevance and the impact of the music from having the icons of today just still find value in it and I think it’s dope that he did it. I’m happy to be a part of it in any way possible.
Are we going to see you at the Super Bowl performing “Live Your Life” with Rihanna?
Zip it. Ay man, I will not confirm or deny any potential appearance. It’s an awesome opportunity. It was awesome to have the opportunity to work with such an iconic figure and such a prolific individual and such a beautiful spirit altogether. We’ll see what happens.
You’ve been a mentor to a lot of artists, and recently spoke about how 21 Savage thanks you every time he sees you for not giving him that first $1 million.
It’s amazing to be in a position where you enter into a whole new generation and be this institution of culture and see the new leaders of the generation pass through your studio and find their sound and start building, meeting each other, and learning the business. I teach the way I was taught, and I was taught you gon’ sacrifice something to gain something. Part of that sacrifice early on is that up-front advance money. Then you get some equity on the back end. That’s the model I’ve been preaching for a long time.
Young Thug was another one of those artists you mentored. He’s in an unfortunate situation right now.
I still have the utmost faith he’s going to come out better than ever. God has the last say, regardless of what I think. He’s going to be a better person and in a better position.
“What You Know” celebrated an anniversary last weekend. What do you remember most about making that record?
I remember how fast I recorded it — it was extremely fast. As soon as [producer] DJ Toomp came in and played some records, as soon as I heard that beat, I knew that was it. I just went in there and did it. Everybody knew this was the first single. That was probably one of the most obvious first listens I’ve ever experienced.
What was your response to RZA’s comments hating on the South taking over rap in 2007 at the time?
I had heard that. There’s gonna be some knee-jerk reactions when it comes to change. Things are being presented a little differently than you’re used to receiving, I can understand how it may take some getting used to. Personally, he never exhibited that kind of energy toward me, and I think that Southern lyrics as a whole are made in response to people in the South and the dialect is much different than the North. I can understand if you from up North, how you might feel a little left out.
Kill the King is your final album? The last one has to be A1.
It’s definitely a feeling of that. Perfection is necessary. I kind of have to put an exclamation point on this career that is taken me to heights that I never imagined and led me places that really surprised me. I never thought I’d be in some of the great positions that I found myself in. This would be the exclamation point, and I have to do it.