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Veteran music executive Dennis Ashley Jr. is joining forces with his son, Dennis Ashley III, to launch a new multimedia firm, Dash Media Partners, the pair has announced. According to a press release, the company will offer “a comprehensive suite of services in music, gaming, television and film production, events, branding and beyond.”
Ashley Jr. is a former partner at ICM Partners, which he joined in 2006 after two years spent operating his own agency. Beginning in 2016, he served as co-head of West Coast urban music division at ICM, where he first worked as a summer intern in the ’80s. While at the agency, Ashley Jr.’s clients included J. Cole, Missy Elliott, Trey Songz, D’Angelo, PartyNextDoor, Jeremih, Jeezy, Nelly, Mary J. Blige, Machine Gun Kelly, Marsha Ambrosius and Brian McKnight.
Ashley III is an entrepreneur known for successfully launching and scaling ventures across diverse industries, working with companies including Jordan Brand, Nobu, H. Wood Group and Triller.
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“With streaming platforms reshaping the way content is consumed and brand partnerships becoming increasingly integral to success,” the father-son duo is “well-positioned to leverage emerging trends…by merging Dennis Ashley Jr’s wealth of experience and industry connections with Dennis Ashley III’s innovative vision and fresh perspective,” reads a press release announcing the new venture.
“This is more than just a business venture for us,” said Ashley III in a statement. “It’s a chance to combine our passion for entertainment with our shared commitment to excellence and innovation. Together, we believe we can create something truly extraordinary.”
After taking itself out of the bidding for French music group and distributor Believe in April, Warner Music Group (WMG) is shopping for an alternative distribution company that could help it gain market share in the competitive space that serves independent creators and labels — and it’s hired a top music investment banker from Goldman Sachs to lead the effort.
Since taking over as WMG’s CEO last year, Robert Kyncl has said the company is prepared to build in-house the technology and services he thinks it needs. Now he’s ready to buy them as well.
“As part of our mission to be a destination for artists and songwriters at every stage of development, we are expanding our lower-touch services that many indie artists, labels and songwriters rely on,” Kyncl said on a conference call discussing WMG’s quarterly earnings on May 9. “We have a clear plan to develop this area of our ecosystem, and we’re building solutions in-house while staying vigilant about [merger and acquisition] opportunities, which could accelerate our capabilities.”
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On Thursday (June 6), WMG announced the hire of Goldman Sachs’ global head of music & live entertainment investment banking Michael Ryan-Southern to a newly created executive vp role. Reporting to Kyncl, Ryan-Southern will be responsible for acquiring companies and catalogs that can boost WMG’s growth and revenues. When he officially joins in August, the first item on his shopping list will be an independent distribution company, smaller in size and cost than Believe, that an inside source described as a “bolt-on” acquisition to help grow WMG’s market share in the independent distribution and services business without affecting its overall profit margins.
Among the companies that WMG is eyeing, according to sources, are leading independent distributors DistroKid and CD Baby. WMG is “active in the market” but is still in the exploratory stage, those sources say.
A WMG spokesperson declined to comment for this story. A representative for Downtown, which owns CD Baby, also declined to comment, except to say that Downtown “is singularly focused on continuing to grow our business and support our clients’ success.” Representatives for DistroKid did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
WMG approached Paris-based Believe in February with a nonbinding offer to acquire it at a price of “at least” 17 euros ($18.60) per share. It ultimately decided not to submit a formal offer in April. Asked why the company did not pursue an offer for Believe, Kyncl said on the May 9 call that it backed away “for a variety of reasons,” including the brief amount of time it was given to conduct due diligence.
Ryan-Southern is a former EMI publishing executive who, along with Goldman’s global head of entertainment investment banking, Aaron Siegel, was on some of music’s biggest deals. These included New Mountain Capital’s acquisition of BMI and the spinoff of Sphere Entertainment, which owns the Sphere in Las Vegas, MSG Networks and Tao Group Hospitality, from Madison Square Garden Entertainment, which owns and operates the Garden and Radio City Music Hall among other venues in New York and Chicago. Ryan-Southern and Siegal also advised Believe founder/CEO Denis Ladegaillerie and his consortium with investment funds EQT and TCV on their effort to take Believe private.
Buying or building something that can leverage WMG’s independent distribution and services division, ADA, would help the music company recruit more early-stage artists, something its executives consider core to its success.
WMG launched ADA in 1993, roughly 20 years before Sony bought a stake in The Orchard and Universal Music Group launched Caroline International as an indie-label distributor that was later rebranded as Virgin Music Group. And though WMG was the first major to carve out a presence serving the independent artist market — renting its major-label services to indies, as industry sources have described it — competition in the market has heated up.
UMG and Sony have invested tens of millions in recent years buying rival startups in the space. A minority shareholder since 2006, UMG acquired Ingrooves in 2019. In 2022, UMG acquired Mtheory Artist Partnerships as well as a 49% stake in [PIAS]. Sony closed out its full acquisition of The Orchard in 2015 and then bought AWAL in 2022.
The Orchard now holds a commanding lead in the U.S. market with a 7.27% current market share, according to Luminate. UMG’s Virgin Music Group, which comprises Ingrooves, Mtheory and Virgin Music Label & Artist Services, holds around 3.42% of the current market. ADA has a current market share of 1.68%. Its biggest client, BMG, which contributes 0.94% to ADA’s current share, is winding down its distribution agreement.
WMG now needs to “turbocharge” this part of its business to capitalize on the fast-growing independent sector, says Fred Davis, partner at The Raine Group.
“The world now is divided into three categories of artists: those signed to major labels, those signed to indie labels and indie artists without a label,” Davis says. “Distribution platforms are proving to be a viable source of A&R for the major labels.”
Focusing WMG’s A&R more on capturing opportunities, particularly in genres that are just beginning to experience growth, was one of Kyncl’s top 2024 agenda items highlighted in a New Year’s Day note he sent to all staff. In April, WMG’s publishing division, Warner Chappell Music (WCM), partnered with ReverbNation, BandLab Technologies’ premium artist services platform, to identify and sign emerging songwriters. WCM administers music rights for any users who enroll in a new program through ReverbNation Publishing Administration, and signed songwriters gain access to WCM’s services.
WMG has acquired majority stakes or launched joint ventures with a few distribution-oriented companies in recent years — some before Kyncl joined WMG — primarily in emerging markets in the Middle East and Asia. Among them: a majority stake in Africori, the leading digital music distribution, music rights management and artist development company in Africa, in January 2022. That March, it also acquired Qanawat Music, a leading distributor in the Middle East and North Africa.
Last year, WMG did two deals in India: It acquired a majority stake in Indian digital media company Divo and formed a joint venture with Sky Digital, which aggregates releases from Punjabi and Hindi labels.
While WMG has made acquisitions in other geographical regions, rival majors have bought companies serving the U.S. market for independents. “It would make sense for [WMG] to augment its distribution with an acquisition,” says a source familiar with the company’s strategy.
Under normal circumstances, Sean “Diddy” Combs and R. Kelly would each own a valuable catalog of music rights, worth tens of millions of dollars apiece in a market of music investors hungry to purchase new prize assets. But because R. Kelly has been convicted of sex trafficking, sexual abuse and child pornography, while Combs is currently facing a reported federal sex trafficking investigation as well as several lawsuits alleging sexual assault, the only value each will likely get these days from those music assets is their annual income from sales and streams.
That’s because corporations and private-equity music asset investors would be wary of buying either catalog if they were put up for sale, music-asset investors and traders say.
As it is, Diddy owns his master recording catalog and his publishing — though they are under various identities, such as alter egos Puff Daddy, Diddy-Dirty Money and Love — which combined have generated about 147,000 album consumption units annually over the last three years. Billboard estimates that brings in about $2.4 million in master recording revenue, while the publishing from those recordings comes to about $600,000 annually. Combined, his share of that would come out to an estimated $2.625 million annually during that time period, which, if it attained a standard 16-times multiple, would work out to an estimated sale value of around $42 million. (For a detailed breakout on Combs, click here.)
Comparatively, the activity on R. Kelly’s catalog is more than twice that of Diddy’s, at an average of 315,000 album consumption units annually over the last three years. Unlike Diddy, however, Kelly doesn’t own his recordings or publishing catalogs, sources tell Billboard — or at least the music he created through 2010. The music he issued up to 2010 comprised about 90% of his U.S. activity last year, while music he released after 2010 — in which he may have an ownership stake — only generated about 10% of his catalog’s overall activity. Consequently, unlike Combs, Kelly likely gets a master recording royalty calculated as a percentage of revenue for his master recordings.
Billboard estimates that his catalog earned about $4.1 million in master recording revenue annually over the last three years, while the publishing revenue for songs on his albums comes out to about $2.3 million. Billboard further estimates his share of that is about $2.3 million, which if it obtained a 16-times multiple, could also reap in the neighborhood of $37 million. (For a detailed breakout on Kelly, click here.)
Combs’ representatives didn’t respond to a request for comment. A lawyer for Kelly disputed Billboard’s estimates, calling them “speculative,” and wouldn’t provide further information.
One major caveat: both artists have extensive credits and royalties for music assets far beyond their own catalogs. In recent public interviews, Combs has said he owns the catalog of his longtime label Bad Boy Records, and he also has extensive producer credits and collaborations with other artists; R. Kelly not only has his own extensive record of productions and collaborations with other artists, but worked for years as an outside songwriter as well. (Diddy also recently sold his shares in media company REVOLT.) These other assets for both Combs and Kelly likely retain their value, even if the two artists’ own catalogs — at least for the near future — are considered undesirable assets.
Last year, Diddy told Billboard that he had received several offers to sell his catalog during the catalog gold rush of the pandemic, but had turned them down. Now, one key music asset buyer says, “We wouldn’t buy it for reputational reasons, but also because our investors wouldn’t want to be associated with such an acquisition.” Even if offered at a discount, the executive continues, “Zero chance, at no price.”
The same goes for R. Kelly. An executive says he was offered a chance to look at the Kelly catalog a few years ago by a representative of the artist who was shopping the assets; he turned down that opportunity then for the same reason, even though the artist had at that point yet to be convicted.
Various allegations against Kelly have been around for well over a decade, and he was acquitted on child pornography charges in 2008. Then in 2019, a documentary called Surviving R. Kelly was released that rehashed many of the old allegations against the artist and revealed a stream of new allegations and new investigations, all culminating in multiple indictments for sexual abuse. In 2021 he was convicted in New York and sentenced the following year to 30 years in prison; in 2023, he was convicted on child pornography charges in Chicago and sentenced to 20 years in prison. Nineteen of those years from the two sentences will be served concurrently, according to press reports.
Another big music-asset buyer agrees with the first investment executive, saying, “Our investors have a fiduciary responsibility. You wouldn’t get a potential acquisition like Diddy’s or Kelly’s past an investment board.”
Even if Diddy were never charged or convicted, the second music-asset buyer says the market for the catalog doesn’t exist. “Nope, he’s done,” the person says. “He’s got too many weird allegations against him.”
Not everyone agrees with the assessment that Diddy’s catalog is now undesirable, however. A third music-asset investor urges caution: “Not so fast,” the person says. “You can’t lump Combs into a Bill Cosby category.” (Diddy, while reportedly under investigation, has not been indicted, let alone convicted. Cosby’s conviction was also ultimately overturned.)
That investor acknowledges that most institutional and corporate investors won’t touch the Diddy catalog right now, but that doesn’t mean they won’t consider it if circumstances change. “The FBI have raided plenty of places and many times no one is ever charged,” that executive says. “Let’s see if Combs gets indicted.” (Those comments were made before CNN published a video from 2016 that appeared to show Diddy assaulting his ex-girlfriend Cassie Ventura.)
As all investors and traders tell Billboard, corporations and institutional investors won’t touch catalogs that carry the type of baggage and stigma that Kelly’s catalog — and now maybe Diddy’s catalog, too — come with. Prior to the Surviving R. Kelly doc and the subsequent legal cases, Kelly’s U.S. radio presence averaged nearly 120,000 plays per year between 2015 and 2018. From 2019 onward, his radio plays have averaged fewer than 5,000 spins a year. Likewise, Diddy’s radio play plummeted by 88% since Cassie filed a lawsuit in November 2023 alleging abuse and rape, which was settled.
Similarly, music investors predict that whatever synchronization revenue the catalogs once enjoyed, is likely to slow or dry up completely for Diddy, and probably already has for Kelly.
But the fans of the artists will continue to enjoy their music regardless, investors say.
Between 2021 and 2023, Kelly’s U.S. on-demand streams averaged 472 million annually; in fact, in 2018 — when the Time’s Up movement launched the Mute R. Kelly campaign — and in 2019, when Surviving R. Kelly preceded the stream of troublesome news reports on new revelations and developments toward what would eventually be an indictment, Kelly’s streams jumped to 733 million and 809 million, respectively, before falling back down to 496 million in 2020.
Meanwhile, Diddy’s streams have fallen off slightly; in the first quarter of this year they totaled 51.9 million, down from almost 61 million over the same period last year, or a decline of 14.9%, Billboard estimates based on Luminate’s stream counts combined for his five main catalogs.
But it’s the royalties from songs recorded by artists that both Diddy and Kelly have produced and written for that could be worth selling, because they would likely land interested buyers, sources say.
In Kelly’s case, that includes music by Aaliyah, Sparkle, the Isley Brothers, Billy Ocean, Janet Jackson, Toni Braxton, Maxwell, Michael Jackson, B2K, Britney Spears, Whitney Houston, Jennifer Hudson, Jordin Sparks, Bryson Tiller and Celine Dion, among others. For Diddy, that includes music from Jodeci, Mary J. Blige, The Notorious B.I.G., TLC, Faith Evans, New Edition, Boyz II Men, Mariah Carey, Busta Rhymes, LL Cool J, Ma$e and Jennifer Lopez, among others.
“The other artists they have worked with have nothing to do with the bad actions on [Kelly and Diddy’s] parts,” says one music asset buyer. “Those other music assets have value.”
Additional reporting by Elizabeth Dilts Marshall and Bill Donahue.
During the years of 2021 through 2023, R. Kelly’s music catalog averaged nearly 315,000 album consumption units each year in the U.S. — which, Billboard estimates, has generated about $2.3 million annually for the singer, adding together earnings from his master recording and publishing from those works.
But assessing Kelly’s earnings isn’t that simple — this estimate doesn’t include royalties he derives from his outside work for other recording artists as a producer and songwriter, nor does it include royalties from cover versions of songs he recorded or that he wrote for other artists. Sources familiar with Kelly’s royalties say these additional income sources amount to several million more per year.
And there are other factors that play into how much Kelly himself earns from his works. In total, Billboard estimates that Kelly’s recorded master catalog generated an average of $4.1 million per year in revenue for the three years under consideration, while his publishing catalog — bolstered by Kelly being the sole writer on the majority of his songs — generated about $2.3 million per year in total for all stakeholders during the period.
Sources say that Kelly doesn’t own the master recordings he made during his period as a chart-topping artist, which accounts for the majority of the activity on his catalog. (His later period recordings, which Kelly may own, don’t fare as well in generating sales and streams.) So if he earns a blended royalty rate of 35% — a common rate for superstar artists — Billboard estimates he earned approximately $1.425 million per year from his master recordings. Even if Kelly doesn’t own his publishing from his most popular music, he doesn’t have many co-writers, so he lays claim to a large share of his publishing. Considering that songwriters later in their career tend to own their publishing or sign new contracts where they have a share in their publishing, Billboard estimates that Kelly’s royalties from his master recordings publishing comes out to about $865,000. When added to his estimated master recording royalties, that comes out to the $2.3 million figure.
A lawyer for Kelly disputed Billboard’s estimates, calling them “speculative,” and wouldn’t provide further information.
Beyond Billboard’s estimates, Kelly’s royalties include production fees for other artists in the Sony Music Entertainment system — for example, Aaliyah’s 1994 debut album Age Ain’t Nothing But a Number, originally released on Jive but now available through Sony’s Legacy label, which means Sony pays him the royalty for that recording, too. Sony also pays him publishing royalties on recordings that it owns. (Kelly himself had been signed to a publishing deal through Universal Music Publishing Group.) But it’s unclear how much additional revenue that generates for him per year.
In terms of the publishing revenue generated by Kelly’s own artist catalog, Billboard’s ballpark estimate is buttressed by financial data supplied to the Eastern Division of the Federal Court of Illinois, with regards to restitution needed in that court case.
According to the court documents, Kelly (who under a traditional publishing deal would receive 50% of the revenue generated by the publishing catalog) was paid $442,0000 on Aug. 28, 2022 for the first half of the year; and, as of Dec. 31, UMPG was holding another $384,000, for a combined annual total of $826,000. That implies total full-year publishing revenue of $1.65 million, which is below Billboard’s overall publishing estimate of $2.3 million. But the UMPG statement excludes his performance royalties paid directly to him by performance rights organizations.
In a few years, his publishing royalties could grow thanks to the U.S. Copyright Law, which allows, after 35 years, for writers to reclaim ownership of creative works issued after 1978. As Kelly’s first song appeared in 1992, that means that in 2027, the songs issued that year would become eligible for copyright termination and reversion for the U.S. portion of his publishing catalog if he or his representatives follow the regulations to affect termination. However, a search of the U.S. Copyright Office public database does not turn up any “notice of termination” filings from Kelly. While the law allows for notices to be filed up to 10 years before the 35-year period expires, Kelly has until 2025 to file for the songs issued in 1992 in order for termination to come into effect by 2027.
It would be difficult for Kelly to have his own catalog sold, considering his convictions in New York and Chicago that have him spending decades in prison and that have scared away many music-asset investors. But using a blended 16-times multiple on Billboard’s estimate of his $2.3 million average annual revenue, that estimated value is around $37 million.
But Kelly likely has a very valuable income stream from his works as a songwriter and producer for other artists, which could very well reap a nice valuation should it ever come to market.
Additional reporting by Bill Donahue.
Over the past three years, Billboard estimates that the revenue generated by Sean “Diddy” Combs’ master recording catalog, as well as the publishing for songs he wrote that appear on his albums, reached about $3 million annually.
The biggest asset he has in his favor — and not included in the above estimate — is his ownership of Bad Boy Records, through which he owns his own masters and publishing.
But the activity generated by his own artist catalog — an average of about 147,000 album consumption units each year over the past three years — is not particularly large for someone generally regarded as a superstar. And even setting aside his current circumstances — several lawsuits alleging sexual assault; a video published by CNN showing him physically assaulting his ex-girlfriend Cassie in 2016, a situation that was included in her own since-settled lawsuit against him last fall; and a reported federal sex trafficking investigation, among other things — the catalog is a challenge for music-asset traders who would consider purchasing it.
One reason, in addition to the public accusations, is that his catalog is not out under a single, identifiable brand like most artists’ catalogs are — it has been put out under five main artist names: Puff Daddy, Puff Daddy & the Family, P. Diddy, Diddy and Diddy-Dirty Money. That makes it harder to market, music industry executives say. To further confuse matters, in 2017 he decided he would henceforth be known as Love, or Brother Love, under which he released his last album, Off The Grid, though neither name appears to be connected with any Combs music activity in Luminate’s database.
Confusingly, that most recent album, Off The Grid, technically released under the name Diddy, was credited with 453,000 units in 2023, according to Billboard’s math based on Luminate’s data from the weekly Billboard 200 chart. However, the songs with the most activity on those albums are collaborations, like “Creepin’” — a remix credited to The Weeknd, Metro Boomin and 21 Savage that seems to capture all of the song’s streams, not just the Diddy remix. Consequently, those streams aren’t counted on his artist page, which only gives Diddy credit for 97,000 album consumption units in 2023 for all his albums, including Off The Grid, put out under the Diddy handle.
Given the lower-than-expected activity and sales volume of his catalog, Billboard estimates the combined Combs catalog brings in about $2.4 million in master recording revenue; while his publishing catalog, which has an extensive list of co-writers, generates about $600,000 annually for Diddy. Given all of his co-writers, his share of the publishing generated by his own albums is probably about $225,000. Combined, that comes to about $2.625 million per year, and at a blended 16-times multiple — a rate at which many high-profile catalogs have sold in recent years — that would put Diddy’s artist catalog’s worth at about $42 million.
Reps for Diddy did not respond to a request for comment.
There are several caveats to that assessment — chief among them that Diddy was, for years, also a prolific producer for many of the artists on the Bad Boy label, and that the master recordings he owns by other artists are likely still desirable for music investors. However, in September 2023, he announced that he was reassigning the publishing rights he owned back to the songwriters and artists who helped build Bad Boy, including Ma$e, Faith Evans, the LOX, 112, and the estate of the Notorious B.I.G.
According to that story, Combs had turned down offers to sell that publishing catalog. While most of those writers were eligible to terminate and reclaim their publishing at the 35-year mark, that is only for American publishing rights, not global, which Combs otherwise would have continued to own under U.S. law. What happened to those global rights is still unknown.
But overall, given all the other artists he has worked with, his ownership of the Bad Boy master recordings catalog provides considerable income and possibly a potential valuation far beyond the estimates cited above for his own master recording catalog.
For plenty of music’s most compelling artists, going independent doesn’t mean going small — it means reaping the myriad benefits of forgoing the major label route. Across genres, staying independent can ensure an artist has greater ownership over both their creativity and their intellectual property; the ability to pivot or react quickly when a song unexpectedly takes off; and the freedom to put together a team that truly has their best interests at heart. Of course, there are the more intangible upsides to staying indie too — above all, the feeling that when success happens, it’s truly earned.
Here, Billboard surveys some of the most compelling indie artists making music (and chart inroads) now about the challenges and benefits they’ve seen to independence and the advice they’d offer anyone considering it.
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The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “Take mindful steps to get to know and understand your artist identity so that you can become something unique and genuine — whether it’s through vision boards, writing diaries or practicing adjacent forms of artistry to help you flesh out your identity as a musician. It has been instrumental to me in making sure I don’t lose my way.” —Paris Paloma (Nettwerk)
The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “You control the narrative, so don’t settle, and be bold. An artist working independently has the ability to reach their fans directly with no barriers to entry and to create their own culture. [Independence] also provides a comfortable space for an artist to discover who they are and run their business with full oversight of the costs. It’s incredibly important for anyone getting into this business to understand how it works, what you’re signing into and how your money is being spent.” —Josh Sanger, manager, Paris Paloma
Paris Paloma
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“Freedom is the most important asset an artist can have, in many more ways than just artistic. If you’re serious about being independent and you know how to work it, it’s way better than signing with an established label. For example, I own my own publishing company. I own my touring company. The capability of reacting and not being on a part-semester plan or a year plan is priceless. The capacity of reaction is one of the biggest assets of being independent.” —Pepe Aguilar (Equinox Records, Machín Records)
One of the most challenging parts of being independent is…: “Being able to make connections with global artists who are represented by major labels for collaborations.” —Cris MJ (Stars Music Chile/Rimas Entertainment)
The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “[Take] responsibility as an artist, and form a good team that can support you in making the right decisions.” —Sergio Javier Ampuero Vergara, manager, Cris MJ
“If you’re grinding to get to your highest point of success and you started by yourself, it means more when you make it. The celebration when you make it is different because you get to say that you gave all of yourself to your dream, no matter who believed or didn’t.” —Lay Bankz (Artist Partner Group)
Lay Bankz
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One of the most challenging parts of being independent is…: “[When you’re] doing the same thing every day with what feels like no motion, and spending money. No one knows you, no one is there to help you, or believing in you — it’s just God, you, and your dreams.” —Kenney Blake, manager, Lay Bankz
“Being an independent artist means having total control over both your art and your business. This requires being an entrepreneur, taking all the risks and having no one to blame but yourself and your team. Make sure you have a good team. You can still yell at the label when you are the label, but you will be yelling in the mirror.
That said, where there is great risk there is great reward. The potential upside is tremendous when you own your own masters and publishing. Don’t let anyone ever convince you ‘independent’ is synonymous with ‘small’ or ‘broke.’ ” —Andrew McInnes, CEO, TMWRK Management; manager, Sturgill Simpson (High Top Mountain)
“We have been able to have full control of our music without having to encounter a lot of politics and red tape that other artists do. It has given us the ability to do what we love most in the way we feel is best, and it even allowed us the freedom to experiment with different sounds on our newest album, Jugando A Que No Pasa Nada.” —Grupo Frontera (Grupo Frontera)
Why is being independent important to you?: “It gives us the power of decision-making and accountability without relying on third parties. This autonomy allows us to act swiftly and adapt to changes in the market or consumer behavior. As a team we can identify shifts in consumption patterns and work towards addressing them on the same day, without needing to wait for approval or direction from a label. This freedom to maneuver quickly and make decisions on our own terms enables us to stay agile, innovative, and true to the artist vision.” —Lucas Barbosa, manager, Grupo Frontera
Grupo Frontera
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“Independence, to me, is having autonomy and ownership of your art. This makes me feel a closer connection to my audience because they know that what comes from me is from me.” —Laufey (AWAL)
Why is being independent important to you?: “So I can own my music and I can control my whole world more easily. Being able to work and keep my music in my possession [means] I can have everything in the future. That’s why I work with UnitedMasters.” —FloyyMenor (UnitedMasters)
The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “Establish and maintain a clear budget. By implementing a detailed budgeting system early on, I was able to allocate funds effectively, ensuring that I always had enough money set aside for crucial aspects of my career. By tracking income and expenses diligently, artists can make informed decisions about where to invest their resources, ultimately leading to greater financial stability and long-term success.” —310babii (High IQ/EMPIRE)
The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “Always ask ‘Why?’ The music business will make you pay for what you don’t know, and it’s your choice on how you choose to learn. If you do not educate yourself on what’s important for the longevity of your career and choose short-term gratification, you will end up paying for it in the long run.” —Jentry Salvatore, manager, 310babii
310babii
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“An indie artist has to have the understanding and knowledge to grasp that investing in their own career is crucial, whether in marketing, in making better content, in doing big tours and shows. An indie artist is one who makes decisions and pays for them from his own pocket.” —Fede Lauria, manager, Bizarrap (Dale Play Records)
The biggest benefit of being independent is…: “Maintaining creative control over the strategies and music that I create. [My song] ‘Daylight’ [had an] original release date scheduled for June, but I knew we had to get it out as soon as possible based on all the engagement we were building around it on socials. I called my manager and just told him we needed to get the song out, and the team made it happen. I think if I were signed to a [major] label, I wouldn’t have been able to make a last-minute change like that and the song wouldn’t have had as big of an impact.” —David Kushner (Miserable Man Music)
“I learned how to play in public. Taught myself how to play guitar and sing and write songs standing on street corners. If I were you, I wouldn’t sign any contracts, ever, if you don’t have to. Because it ain’t to your advantage. Unless they’re giving you a whole bunch of money — and even then, try and get the cash with a handshake. Let me put it to you like this: If you don’t know who the sucker in the deal is, it’s you.
Asking why being independent’s important is really beside the point. I didn’t set out to be independent. I was always seen as so confusing and so different that the people I was dying to do business with didn’t want me. The woman that discovered us, when she started realizing that I was going to be difficult to handle or tame, one afternoon in frustration, she threw her hands down on her desk and looked across at me and said, ‘Goddamn it, Charley Crockett. It’s a Coke and Pepsi world, and you are going to have to dance.’ She said my problem was that I just wanted to be Woody Guthrie and this was my one golden opportunity. Well, the only thing she was right about is I did want to be Woody Guthrie. Where we disagreed is, I don’t think you have one shot. You just have to keep rolling the dice.
At a certain point, I felt like I was out in the wilderness. And when you get far enough out there, the air is real good. You learn how to survive in it, and you just keep going. Don’t ever turn around.” —Charley Crockett (Son of Davy/Thirty Tigers)
Charley Crockett
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The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “You have to be persistent in selling your musical vision to find your fans and reach the masses. Being creative and trusting your instincts as an artist can help to level the playing field. And most importantly, don’t take no for an answer.” —Ken Levitan, Vector Management; manager, Charley Crockett
The biggest benefit of being independent is…: “I can work closely with my team and lead my projects, making sure my goals come to reality. At the end of the day, as the artist and mind of my project, that makes it easier for all to be on the same page.” —Junior H (Rancho Humilde)
The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “Trust the process.” —Key Glock (Paper Route/EMPIRE)
The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “Trust yourself, be authentic and see your artistic vision through. Continue to create the music that speaks to you that will resonate with your core audience, and don’t compromise for quick commercial success.” —Shaboozey (EMPIRE)
The biggest benefit of being independent is…: “Having the flexibility to move at your own pace. For example, if we want to release a record, we control that internally and can capitalize on any traction instantaneously — rather than having to get approvals from multiple parties. We live in a world where the consumer attention span is shorter than it’s ever been, so being able to strike while the iron is hot is ever so crucial to the success of an artist’s rollout.” —Abas Pauti, manager, Shaboozey
Shaboozey
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“It’s so important for an artist to be able to say yes or no without manipulation or punishment. I believe creative freedom is priceless. Art is beautiful. It is honest, it is therapy, it is healing, it is personal, and it is often disrupted and tainted by business minds and models looking to make a quick coin. While the independent route is not without its own risks [like] self-financing, I am truly grateful to be able to be in control of my life and my art.” —RAYE (Human Re Sources)
The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “Being independent doesn’t mean working alone! It’s an old saying, but it takes a village and it really does. Your team is everything. I firmly believe getting that right is essential for success.” —Paul Keen, manager, RAYE
“Being an independent artist is one of the most empowering positions to be in. Independent artists feel the weight of responsibility for the future of their careers, which I think oftentimes leads to an increase in grit and work ethic.
I think I’ve realized the power and value of a team that’s aligned with the artist’s vision. A small but effective team around an independent artist and the right strategic partnerships can make a huge difference.” —JVKE (AWAL)
The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “Right now, artist culture is very anti-major label. The seed of this is obviously that traditional label deals have been very exploitative. However, I’m noticing that, among young artists, this culture is breeding a fear of engaging with anyone who might be able to help scale their projects. I was speaking with a really talented artist the other day and they were telling me how they’re drowning simply trying to keep up with content creation and writing new songs. Yet, five minutes earlier, they were telling me how they never respond to any music pros that hit them up on socials, because it’s stupid for an artist to have a manager or label partner and give away money when they can do it all on their own. I had to stop them and point out the contradiction.
The great news is, the sort of predatory deals that sparked this label conversation in the first place aren’t all that’s on the table anymore. There are companies out there that allow artists to retain ownership of their music and maintain creative control, while still offering help with all the tasks artists don’t have the time for or network to facilitate, and they’ll do it for a very justifiable portion of the profit that is fractions of what artists had to give away in the past.
If you just want to write songs in your bedroom and hopefully pay the bills, then you might be able to swing it on your own. If you want to go big, building the right team is the best investment an artist can make. There are no billion-dollar businesses that are run by one person alone.” —Ethan Curtis, Plush Management; manager, JVKE
JVKE
David Livingston/WireImage
The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “A personal connection with your team is paramount. As the industry continues to shift, having a team that you trust and can envision being in your life for the next two, five, 10, 15 years is crucial. Katie Crutchfield has always had a very specific vision for Waxahatchee. While it has certainly evolved over the years, having a group of a few core, trusted team members around her has been key to keeping Katie’s goals focused and achievable.” —Reynold Jaffe, Another Management Company; manager, Waxahatchee (Anti-)
The biggest benefit of being independent is…: “Being in control of your intellectual property, how you monetize it, release it and promote it. At the end of the day, you then own all of your own IP, to sell or continue working as you’d like to, on your own terms.” —Dean Wilson, manager, deadmau5 (mau5trap)
“For Djo, the most important aspect of releasing music is to allow for people to discover the songs and who is behind them on their own. By staying independent, he is under no pressure to rush his campaigns.” —Nick Stern, manager, Djo (AWAL)
Why is being independent important to you?: “Because being a musician means being a part of the music industry, it begins to entangle creativity and business — which can be incredibly difficult and painful for artists. Being independent, we are able to maintain creative control over the vast majority of what we do, and it’s something I would never consider giving up.” —Khruangbin’s Laura Lee Ochoa (Dead Oceans)
Laura Lee Ochoa
Scott Dudelson/Getty Images
The biggest benefit of being independent is…: “As an independent manager who represents independent artists, we are afforded autonomy both creatively and strategically since there is less pressure to hit markers of supposed success that are often informed by financial obligation versus artistry. The music must come first, in its most pure and passionate form. If you bet on yourself, you’re sure to win.” —Dawn White, You and Me, Inc.; manager, Khruangbin
The advice I’d offer any indie artist is…: “Surround yourself with a team that you trust and you know will put your career and the integrity of your music first. I couldn’t do anything I do without my team, from my label to management and beyond. From American Idol to moving to Nashville to being thrown headfirst into the unknown world of the music industry, I’m so grateful I had all of them there to guide me, my music and my career from the very beginning.” —Chayce Beckham (Wheelhouse/BBR Music Group)
The biggest benefit of being independent is…: “I loved being involved [at BBR Music Group] with a small group of passionate people who woke up every day with an ‘us against the world’ attitude. While they have had great successes with Jason Aldean, Jelly Roll and Lainey Wilson, that same passion and drive remains.” —Clarence Spalding, manager, Jason Aldean
Who is “indie”?: The artists featured in this story meet the guidelines of Billboard’s Top Independent Albums chart, which includes labels distributed independently or through the indie division of a major-label group as well as labels that are independently owned and control their masters but are distributed directly through Universal Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment or Warner Music Group.
This story will appear in the June 8, 2024, issue of Billboard.
With an unprecedented number of openly LGBTQ+ artists making waves in the music industry, a casual observer could argue that representation in the business has reached a new high. But according to workers within it, representation is still severely lacking.
In a new survey published by Queer Capita, in partnership with Billboard and The Orchard, nearly half of LGBTQ+ music industry respondents revealed that they felt insufficiently represented within the industry. The State of the LGBTQ+ Music Industry Professional Survey gathered responses from nearly 300 LGBTQ+-identifying professionals within the music business.
A majority of respondents (77%) said that they felt somewhat or very comfortable being open about their sexuality in the workplace, while 64% of respondents said that the industry fosters a somewhat or very inclusive and supportive environment for LGBTQ+ professionals.
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That outlook changed, though, when professionals were asked about representation across all sectors of the industry. While an overwhelming 92% of respondents referred to LGBTQ+ representation as either “important” or “very important” for the industry, nearly half (48%) said they felt the community is somewhat or very poorly represented across all sectors of the business.
“As a manager, I feel good about my particular company. My concern is that as you get into the different formats and genres, many of them are not welcoming, and do not feel like supportive places as musical industries,” one respondent wrote in the survey’s open-ended response section.
When it comes to active support for LGBTQ+ people in the industry, the survey found that a mere 8% of respondents felt that their companies provided “adequate resources” for LGBTQ+ employees. Meanwhile, 21% said that their companies provided no resources to LGBTQ+ employees.
One respondent took that concern further, saying that the burden of support for the community should not fall solely on queer and trans professionals. “It’s critical to tackle unconscious bias for trans people. This should not fall on your resource groups or LGBTQ+ in addition to full-time jobs,” they wrote. “Many times, I was pigeonholed into DEI work on top of my full-time job. In reality, I don’t want to be in DEI, I want to work in music. We need to stop making our LGBTQ+ colleagues do all the work in addition to smashing glass ceilings.”
Additionally, 64% of those surveyed said that they had personally experienced or witnessed microaggressions relating to LGBTQ+ identities in the music industry. Just over a quarter (28%) of all respondents believed they had been passed over for promotions or raises due to their identity.
“I think we have a lot of LGBTQ+-identifying people in the music industry, but certain areas are still more unsafe than others,” one respondent wrote. “Working on the tech side, there are still a lot of regressive ideas about LGBTQ+ people and offensive comments or ‘jokes’ made during working hours.”
So, what can music companies do to bolster support for the community both during and outside of Pride Month? Respondents said that employee resource groups and diversity and inclusion workshops provided by their companies were “actively helpful” in creating a safe and supportive environment for LGBTQ+ workers. When asked what resources aren’t currently provided by their companies that they would like to see implemented, respondents pointed to mentorship programs (19%) and LGBTQ-specific networking events (17%) as their top choices.
“I feel pretty good about representation in our industry but I will say that I would love to see more LGBTQ+ bosses. Leadership could still use a bit of a shakeup,” wrote one respondent. “I’m very thankful that one of my first mentors was an incredibly badass artist manager. She’s an out lesbian who never shied away from her identity on the job. She showed me what it looks like to be an out, confident boss, and how that can win over clients and business partners. I aspire to the example she set still to this day.”
In a statement shared with Billboard, Queer Capita co-president Dan Iammatteo said that the nonprofit’s aim in publishing the results of the survey was to “utilize data as a tool to help keep the industry progressing on issues valued most by our community.” He added that the organization will use the results of this survey to “expand our collective impact by continuing to partner with industry DEI leaders, organizers, and champions to produce events and programs that remain free and accessible to all LGBTQ+ professionals at every level.”
SM Entertainment has issued a statement strongly denying rumors that NCT members Johnny and Haechan, as well as Heechul of Super Junior, are involved in a sex scandal that has gained increased scrutiny and attention both inside and outside Korea.
Earlier this week, allegations arose from different social media users detailing the alleged sexual affairs of Johnny, 29, and Haechan, 23, both members of SM Entertainment boy band NCT, with three women during a recent visit to Tokyo in March.
As NME notes, the claims stemmed from a Japanese nightlife gossip account on Twitter regarding three women said to be working in Tokyo’s nightlife industry as bar hostesses. Purported evidence of their time with the K-pop idols came via photos of three women holding hotel cards where the stars stayed, room interiors that point to five people drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes together and one blurry photo that allegedly shows Johnny and Haechan entering the hotel with three women despite the fact that none of their faces can be readily identified. Captions and comments from the women describing their alleged experiences, as well as alleged text message conversations about meeting the K-pop stars, were also put forth as so-called evidence by the gossip account.
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Johnny and Haechan have not shared anything about the alleged encounters, but NCT 127 (the nine-member boy band that both singers are also a part of under the NCT brand) did fly into Japan on March 8, 2024 to perform a March 9 concert at the Tokyo Dome.
The claims soon went viral among K-pop fans and by Tuesday (June 4), SM Entertainment’s stock price had fallen from that day’s peak of 90,300 Korean won ($65.94) to 82,300 Korean won ($60.10) — though by press time, the stock had since rebounded to 85,500 Korean won ($62.44). The story even made it onto the evening news for KBS, the Korean national broadcaster, during a report about SM’s stock price drop.
Heechul of Super Junior, a more senior boy band under SM that’s been active for nearly 20 years, was also brought into the rumor mill after private photos of the singer with one of the women involved in the controversy made their way online. According to several blogs monitoring the situation, Heechul, 40, spoke about the news on the fan-messaging app Dear U denying that he drank or had meals with any of the junior SM Entertainment performers outside of work and that he is speaking with the label to clear any misunderstanding.
On Wednesday (June 5), South Korea’s Yonhap News Agency shared a statement from SM Entertainment denying any unsavory behavior from their artists. In the statement, SM labeled the rumors as “entirely false” and said they “constitute criminal acts that severely damage the artists’ reputations,” per Yonhap. The company added, “We have already gathered sufficient evidence regarding numerous posts related to these matters…we will not overlook such criminal acts and will take legal action against those involved without leniency or settlement, regardless of their nationality.”
SM Entertainment and representatives for NCT and Super Junior did not immediately respond to Billboard‘s requests for comment.
At European collective management organizations (CMOs), the hits just keep on coming. On Wednesday (June 5), SACEM announced record results for 2023, with collections up 5% to €1.49 billion ($1.6 billion based on the 2023 average euro-to-dollar conversion rate) compared to the previous year and distributions rising 17% to €1.23 billion ($1.33 billion). The French CMO also announced that its board has voted unanimously to extend Cécile Rap-Veber’s term as CEO.
The results come amid a thriving period for European CMOs. In April, GEMA, the German collecting society, announced that revenue rose 8.4% in 2023 to €1.28 billion ($1.4 billion). PRS for Music in the United Kingdom followed at the end of May, disclosing 14.2% revenue growth to £1.08 billion ($1.34 billion). However, in both of those cases, as well as SACEM’s, the results followed years of more substantial growth fueled by music fans eager to get back to seeing live shows in the wake of the pandemic. A year ago, for example, SACEM announced that it had taken in €1.41 billion ($1.54 billion) in 2022 — 34% more than it did the prior year.
Slower growth seems to be bringing with it a focus on controlling costs, and SACEM’s ratio of expenses to revenue collected is 10.76%, the lowest in its history. “What matters to me is the best value for our members,” SACEM CEO Cécile Rap-Veber tells Billboard. She adds that a more efficient disbursement of royalties boosted growth in distributions beyond that of revenue, saying: “We are distributing faster and faster.”
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The biggest source of revenue for SACEM was online, which rose 13% to €557 million ($602.67 million). The second biggest source was general royalties — a category that includes places where music is central, such as concerts, as well as places where it’s not — which was up 18.5% to €388 million ($420 million). Finally, broadcast rights, including TV and radio, brought in €318 million ($344 million).
Over the past few years, Rap-Veber has helped modernize the French CMO with an initiative known as “SACEM 3.0,” with a focus on delivering results at a reasonable cost.
“2023 was a year of confirmation in the implementation of our major strategic priorities,” Rap-Veber said in a statement. “We continued our transformation into Sacem 3.0 and worked to improve efficiency, ensuring the sustainability of our management account and optimising both our collections and the amount distributed to our members.”
More than ever, CMOs are competing for online rights — but also, on some level, for bragging rights. ‘Competition,” says Rap-Veber, “has forced a lot of us to improve.”
Last October, REVOLT — the Black-owned and operated digital cable network co-founded by Sean “Diddy” Combs in 2013 — celebrated its 10th anniversary. Now, eight months later, the multi-platform media company is celebrating its rebirth as an employee-owned entity.
Announced today (June 4) by REVOLT CEO Detavio Samuels, the historic business shift follows in the wake of Combs’ stepping down as company chairman last November after being served with multiple sexual assault lawsuits. In keeping with Samuels’ and his team’s determination that REVOLT remain Black-owned and operated, the equity move — in which Diddy sold his stake back to the company, which is then distributing shares among its current employees — underscores the company’s original vision to pioneer a new era of entertainment while also establishing a new media model.
“I needed my employees to be incentivized, excited, to feel like they have skin in the game,” Samuels exclusively tells Billboard. “It’s about generating wealth for marginalized communities who have been historically left out.”
Atlanta-based Samuels joined REVOLT as COO in 2020 and was promoted to CEO a year later. It’s his hope that “more CEOs embrace and embody this idea of linked prosperity: if the company wins, every single person wins. We’re trying to set an industry standard where this type of thing becomes the norm.” In the following interview, Samuels outlines REVOLT’s journey to that decision.
At what point was the decision made to seek a new owner for REVOLT?
After all of the allegations in November became clear, stepping into 2024 for that association with Sean Combs could be a distraction to the mission that we had been on for the last four years. So at that point in time, we had very real conversations. You know, you can’t force anybody to sell their shares in the same way that nobody could force you to sell your house. But Sean Combs understood the assignment and elected to sell his shares so that the mission could continue.
In March there were media reports that Richelieu Dennis, the owner of Essence magazine, was buying REVOLT. Was that true? Were there other suitors for the company?
There’s been tons of speculation and rumors, as you can imagine. What we wanted to do was find the best home for REVOLT. At the end of the day, we want this business, which is stronger than ever, to continue to thrive. So absolutely, we’ve had lots of conversations with people. What we realized is that you can search the whole world, but we came to the conclusion that the only people we needed was us. We were the ones that we were looking for. I hope that can be a signal just to us as Black people and the Black community in general about self-reliance, unity. Nobody’s coming to save us. We have all we need to save ourselves.
When you came on board as CEO, was such a notion on your mind then?
One of the biggest things I wanted to do was just make sure that employees could benefit in the success of this company. And it’s been a conversation that we’ve had, specifically at the management level, for the last four years since I’ve been here, looking for the opportunity to ultimately make it happen. I’m a big believer in the idea of linked prosperity, meaning that as REVOLT wins, everybody in our ecosystem wins. Our values are reflected in our business model. We’ve given 50-plus entrepreneurs capital with no exchange of equity. We’ve put more than $50 million recirculated back into the Black community every single year. We have the biggest deals with the biggest content creators, but all of them also have upside participation in the content we co-create.
When we’ve had big years and blown our numbers out the water, our employees got big bonuses — every single one of them. So this was kind of like the missing piece. How do we put our employees, who are giving us their blood, sweat and tears every single day, in a position where they can benefit from the economics of their genius? So I’m thrilled that we are finally at that point where the people who are the backbone of our success now to get to be shareholders in the company.
At the bottom of the press release announcing REVOLT’s new owners, it says, “Shares held by the company’s former chair have been fully redeemed and retired.” What does that mean exactly?
Some people still aren’t clear. So that [statement] is enough to make it very clear: He [Sean Combs] is not the chairman of the company. He’s not on the board of this company. And he owns zero equity and zero shares in this company.
How did you decide to distribute the shares among employees? Were they all given equal shares?
Everyone is not going to be given equal shares. What we’re doing right now is working through a distribution process where we can ensure everything is smooth and fair. And two of the key components, of course, will be seniority and our vesting schedule. We plan on rolling that out over the course of the next few months.
And by employees, that includes yourself and the rest of the executive team as well?
If you are a full-time employee at REVOLT, you will receive something from this distribution.
Was there any pushback to this plan?
There was no pushback. In fact, if anything, I need to celebrate my amazing board, who immediately latched onto the idea. Their work was critical in helping us get here, so no pushback. Everybody knows that REVOLT is a values-driven brand. We don’t just talk the talk, we walk the walk.
How many members comprise the board and what are the names of some of those members?
We’re going to keep that side confidential.
And new employees will be eligible to be shareholders as well?
New employees will be eligible for this equity incentive pool as well. In the short term today, there are no massive changes happening to our organizational structure. We will continue to stay on brand; the vision and mission are the same. We want to shift the narrative for Black people globally by building the world’s most powerful Black storytelling engine on the planet, powered by creators. In fact, as we lean into this idea of being powered by creators, we are trademarking a new term: we are “pioneering a new era of entertainment.” Media is in chaos right now. But we believe that we’ve got a new model that works in this chaotic world that we live in. And we’re getting ready to make a run and show the world what it’s supposed to look like. The only other way to say this is that we’re about to dream bigger and we’re about to dream Blacker. That’s all it is.
Diddy was very publicly the face of Revolt. How do you plan to forward and reinvent the brand out of his shadow?
Diddy wasn’t the face of the brand, I don’t think, inside of the company. Since I’ve been here, he’s never been part of the day-to-day operations and the teams have had zero interaction with him. So there’s no difference on our side; no difference with our clients and our affiliate partners, our customers. So really the only place where I think there’s this, you know, massive association with him and REVOLT is with the culture.
The way we will respond to that, first and foremost, is with this announcement so that everybody knows every time you support REVOLT, you are standing by the people and the employees who are building this thing. The second thing is, it was never supposed to be built on one person. REVOLT has never believed that it is one person, one idea, one lens. You can’t shift the narrative for Black people through one lens. So we will continue to bring on the biggest and baddest creators in the culture. And it is through this “for us, by us” model that we will get people to shake this association from Sean Combs and make it about the people who are building the culture today.
Are you planning to continue REVOLT’s events business as well as the television and podcasting initiatives?
Last year’s REVOLT WORLD summit was just the pilot and it took off like a rocket ship: 30,000 people [in attendance] during three days. Now we’re moving ahead with our vision and strategies clear. We haven’t announced this year’s REVOLT WORLD yet, but it will be in September. Last year’s was sponsored by Walmart, Pepsi, McDonald’s and other brands who have continued to stand by us through all of this.
The other piece is about this new era of media. Gone are the days where there’s a single-lane media company, where you can only be cable, only be a podcast, or only be live events. We believe we have this special model where we are able to be fast, efficient and effective, partner with the dopest creators in the culture, shoot once and be able to deliver that in whatever format — cable, streaming, podcast, live events — that our audience wants to consume it: Spotify, Apple, all cable, CTV, YouTube, so be it. It’s imperative that we reach our audience wherever they live and breathe. You name it, we’re going to be there.
What is REVOLT valued at and is it profitable?
I can’t tell you the valuation. But REVOLT has been profitable since at least 2018. I took over [as CEO] in the COVID year, 2020. If you compare the numbers we finished in 2020 to the numbers we finished in 2023, EBITDA is up 3.5x. If you want to compare advertising numbers, those are up six times. The business is healthy, the business is sound. That’s why we’re ready to make this next run.
Are there plans to continue to shop REVOLT in the future, or is this the ownership structure you guys are committed to now?
I am 100% committed to this new ownership structure. I’m big about the history and the history of America says that Black people have been responsible for building trillion-dollar industries in this country, whether we’re talking about the cotton and tobacco industries or now hip-hop. But they’ve never been able to fully reap from the economics that their hard work and genius have built. Black and brown people deserve to benefit from the economics that their genius creates.
A second thing also underscores my commitment and why this announcement is so important and historic. Usually when you run into these kinds of situations, the companies reflect what I consider the old America majority: white people. Marginalized groups barely get a benefit when these types of things take off. But with REVOLT, you’re talking about a company that’s majority Black and 50% women. So when we make this run to become the next Black unicorn, when we hit that billion-dollar valuation, those people who have historically been left out of the wealth-building opportunities in America will be left out no more. So for those reasons, I’m committed. Does that mean that we won’t have to take back equity in order to raise capital to make that run to that billion-dollar number? No. But what it means is our employees will always have a share and ownership in this company that they’re creating.
With the ownership situation behind you, what are you looking forward to next?
I’m most excited about the bunch of coming announcements that I’m sitting on right now and can’t wait to roll out. For now, people can see that we’ve started to sow some seeds, like launching REVOLT Sports. People may think we’ve been a little quieter than usual. And in full transparency, we have been: the only hit show we have running at this time is Drink Champs on YouTube. But they’re about to find out really quickly that REVOLT is about to get real loud real fast. So ask me this question in December, and I’m sure I’ll have plenty to talk about.