Inside Pophouse’s $1.3B Vision for Immersive Music: KISS Avatars, New Avicii Track Next

In 2022, Pophouse Entertainment premiered ABBA Voyage in London, a virtual concert in which avatars of the Swedish powerpop foursome as they appeared in 1979 — one of them Pophouse co-founder Björn Ulvaeus — performed their biggest hits in ABBA Arena, a custom-built venue at Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park that seats 3,000. 

More than 40 years after ABBA’s initial success and the subsequent popularity of the Mamma Mia! musicals and movies, fans have purchased more than 3.3 million tickets to over 1,000 ABBA Voyage shows, according to Pophouse, which cost approximately $185 million to mount. Now, armed with $1.3 billion from its first round of private equity fundraising and the backing of Swedish investment giant EQT, Pophouse CEO Per Sundin is eager to replicate the franchise’s success. 

Sitting in front of photos of Michael Jackson, Destiny’s Child, Lana del Rey, Billie Eilish, Barry Gibb and other artists Sundin worked with during the decades he spent as Sony and later Universal Music Group’s top executive in the Nordics, he sees ABBA Voyage as a template to attract the devoted fan bases of certain other acts. KISS, which completed its End of the Road tour in 2023 and whose catalog Pophouse acquired the following year, will be the next act to get the avatar treatment. Another possible candidate is Cyndi Lauper, whose farewell tour ends in August and whose catalog Pophouse owns. The company’s portfolio also includes the catalogs of two of Sweden’s most famous electronic music artists, Swedish House Mafia and the late DJ Avicii, for whom the company recently said it will release new music. 

Speaking at the New York offices of law firm Morrison Foerster, Sundin says Pophouse didn’t cut any corners in creating ABBA Voyage — even footing a “shocking” Dolce & Gabanna clothing bill, Sundin says, for the avatars’ costumes. (“They should have sponsored us, it was so expensive,” he jokes.) 

Sundin says that after KISS vocalist-guitarist Paul Stanley saw ABBA Voyage, he asked to meet the band members backstage. Pophouse, he adds, is dedicated to producing the same realism for the blood-spitting, fire-breathing “Black Diamond” boys. 

Geopolitical uncertainty and tariffs have not directly affected music assets. Did that motivate investors who participated in this latest funding round? 

I don’t want to comment on what’s going on in the world today because I can’t guess where anything is going. But music is totally uncorrelated to inflation or interest rates, and that is a key message for people who invest from the financial world. When we said to investors, “This is a yield business because you have royalties coming in every quarter,” the financial support for music is fantastic. Even though you have tough times, maybe you don’t go out to restaurants or do big trips, but you will never cancel your Spotify, YouTube or Apple account. 

You may not cancel your Spotify account, but you do buy fewer Broadway tickets. How are you changing your forecasts for the ABBA virtual show or other live- entertainment projects? 

You have to value in assumptions and calculations for every venture, but we’re not going to do nothing for four years. The world we’re living in, it’s always SNAFU [an acronym for “situation’s normal: all fucked up”]. There is also opportunity. There is so much need for entertainment. ABBA Voyage is the next generation of music concerts. It’s on seven days a week, and it’s almost always sold out. I’ve been 16 times, and I’m emotionally connected every time. That’s how contagious this show is. Of the 50 biggest artists in the world still alive, I would say that 40 have been there to see it. 

Given the show’s popularity with big stars, how’s your pipeline for acquisitions? 

Really good. The press release about how much money we raised helped. We hope to announce at least one catalog we’re buying by summer. But we don’t just want to buy it and put it on the shelf. We create a road map for five to 10 years, and then we execute that road map. From the beginning, we told our investors that we want to buy eight to 10 catalogs. We have four. That leaves six to buy. The record companies have thousands of catalogs. 

In the United States, ABBA Arena would be comparable to Sphere in Las Vegas. Will the KISS virtual show take place there? 

No. The Sphere is a fantastic building, a fantastic venue, but for the type of avatar concert we are planning with KISS — which is something else — we are looking at more intimate sites. I’ve been to the Sphere four times [to see U2 live, a video replay of a U2 show, Anyma and the Eagles]. The first time I saw U2 at Sphere, the visuals were amazing, but I didn’t feel emotionally connected. Bono is a preacher. He has something to say to the world, and I didn’t find he was in the right element. I saw U2 virtual [a recording of a prior Sphere performance], and Bono was more of a preacher there. With U2 [both times], I asked people, “Did you go for U2 or did you go for the Sphere?” Two-thirds said they went there for the Sphere.

How will you give KISS fans something new for the virtual show? 

Every catalog we buy will not be an avatar show. ABBA was only active for eight to nine years. KISS toured for 40. Kiss is more male-biased. ABBA is more female-biased. But they both have fans of all ages. That’s why their brands are so valuable. If you’re a KISS fan, you’re a fan for life. 

Pophouse also owns Avicii’s catalog, another artist with hyper-engaged fans who are very sensitive to coverage and monetization of that catalog, given his suicide at the age of 28 in 2018. Would Pophouse buy another catalog that comes with a significant risk of offending fans? 

There is so much data available to look at before we buy catalogs today. We also do brand and narrative due diligence. KISS has superfans. Taylor Swift has superfans. The same goes with Avicii. On Spotify, 2% of listeners of a catalog stand for 80% of a catalog’s streams in an average month or year. In some cases, we have found 5% [of listeners] stand for 50% of streams. If I can increase an act’s superfans from 5% to 6%, the total streams will go up 10%, meaning the value of the catalog will go up 10%. 

So back to your question about sensitivity: We take this very seriously. With KISS, there are fans that have been fans for 50 years. We did deep research and collected 10 people into a superfan panel and invited them to Vegas [in mid-March]. In workshops, we asked them what they would expect, what they liked and didn’t like because we respect them. That doesn’t mean we will do everything they say. We will adapt their feedback for the next 50 years. 

We’re going to do a superfan panel with Avicii, too. His parents are very close to me personally since I signed Avicii in 2010. I am probably the person who is saying, “Do as little as possible.” There are a lot of things Avicii never released, and we are doing Avicii Forever, a collection of his best songs — and one new song. 

What’s a challenge you encountered in your career, and how did you overcome it? 

The first decade of the century was a true roller coaster for me, but also for everyone in the music industry. It started with the best year ever selling CDs, then came Napster, LimeWire and, eventually, Pirate Bay. Sweden was the most pirated country in the world, and I had to restructure Sony Music Nordic. Then came the merger between Sony Music and BMG, and I moved to Universal Music Nordic. I had to let more than 300 people go, and the music market in Sweden decreased 50%. We tried everything to overcome the shrinking market: ringtones, iTunes and many more. Nothing compensated. When I joined Universal in April 2008, UM Sweden had the lowest digital revenue based on micro [gross domestic product]. Spotify was launched that October, and I decided to go all-in and sign as many new and established artists as possible: Avicii, Alesso, Tove Lo and many more. In 2013, Universal Music Sweden had the highest digital revenue on micro GDP in the [entirety] of Universal Music.

What are you most proud of from your career?

Every artist you sign to a label you feel in some way connected to them. I don’t think they always feel connected to you, but to sign an artist or band is such an important decision [for everyone involved]. Even though I’ve left Sony and Universal, I continue to follow the careers of the artists I signed. It’s emotional. It’s about creating an entertainment brand or artist who can live on their creativity. It’s fantastic.

Related Images: