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There’s a certain feeling Nimino has always been looking for in the music he listened to and then eventually made.
“You know when you listen to a song and there’s a moment that like, a chord strikes and you can’t explain why, but it just pulls a tear from your eye?” he asks rhetorically while speaking to Billboard over Zoom. “And no matter how many times you listen, you’ll get that moment in that song and be like, ‘Oh, f–k.’”
It’s a wave of emotion the London-based artist born Milo Evans loved experiencing, one he’s worked to create since he started producing music at age 13 and one he identified when he first heard “I Only Smoke When I Drink,” a brassy soul song by American outfit Rebecca Jade and the Cold Fact, from the group’s 2019 album Running Out of Time.
“I would listen to that song and as soon as it would get past [the title line] I’d lose interest,” Nimino says. “It’s a great tune, but I would just listen to that one bit over and over, because it’s such a crazy little line.”
Enjoying the feeling it gave him and sensing he could do something with it, he grabbed the acapella of the Rebecca Jade vocal “but couldn’t find anything it would fit with, so I had it sitting on my computer for ages.” He was later working on another that song “that was quite dark and felt quite melancholic and definitely had this clubby vibe to it, but I don’t know what needed to be put in it.”
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Eventually, in December of 2023, he thought to pair the pieces “so it was like a call and response between the synth playing and the vocals chatting. Once those were together, it was just like, ‘This is obviously a very exciting song.’”
The internet agreed. Before its August 22, 2024 release on Ninja Tune’s Counter Records imprint (where Nimino signed in the spring of 2024), clips featuring the single generated more than 15 million views, two million likes and 313,000 saves across TikTok and Instagram. He previewed the song online only after a lengthy sample clearing process, as he knew audiences would want to know the release date immediately upon hearing it.
“I was kind of careful with it,” he says, “then as soon as we had the thumbs up, I teased it. It went crazy literally the first night.” While the song went wild online, Nimino celebrated its release in very IRL fashion. The night before the song came out, “a guy hit me up online and was like, ‘Yo man, we’re throwing a house party in London. I’d love for you to come DJ and play that new song. I was like, ‘Yeah, f– it. Why not?’”
Celebrating was appropriate. Since August, “I Only Smoke When I Drink” has generated 17.9 million official on-demand U.S. streams and 87.2 million official on-demand global streams, according to Luminate. The song is in its 21st week on Hot Dance/Electronic Songs and currently sits at No. 15, its highest position thus far.
But this success “hasn’t changed the strategy so much as it expedited things,” says Gon Carpel, the founder of Noted Management who co-manages Nimino alongside Eli Bieber. “The focus remains building a long-lasting artist career by focusing on the fundamentals and making strategic decisions for the long term.” (On the agent side, Nimino is represented by UTA’s Jamie Waldman.)
“But of course, Carpel adds, “the success of the song has allowed him to reach more people in more places much faster, and that discovery is expediting his growth across the board – opening up new opportunities in touring, publishing, sync, etc. The biggest strategy change has probably been in having to be even more considerate with where and when to spend his time and energy, as the whole globe has opened up to him.”
When we speak Nimino is in New Orleans for a show at Republic NOLA. While he’s been touring in the U.S. for the last few years (he says his shows do especially well in New York, Los Angeles and Denver), sets are now selling out much faster. “And I mean, even just selling out is a big jump from last year,” he says. He’s got shows in Nashville, Austin and Orlando this weekend (Jan. 24-26) and says while he can’t reveal much yet, there are big festival plays on the summer calendar.
Warm, funny and generally fairly calm seeming, Nimino doesn’t seem too preoccupied with his virality or with trying to top it. “I’ve had a few viral moments before,” he says. “Never to this level, but I’m relatively well versed in how it feels.” (How does it feel? “Very overwhelming. It’s hard to get off your phone.”)
With single and EP releases dating back to 2018, Nimino is more than a one-trick TikTok artist. His catalog has 56.5 million official on-demand U.S. streams and 179.5 million official on-demand global streams, according to Luminate. He calls 2023’s “No Sympathy” and 2022’s “Opening Credits” and “Save a Soul” pillars of his sets, which “for my listeners have always been very special moments.”
While “I Only Smoke When I Drink” is putting a lot more eyes and ears on him — earning him new followers, a turn making an Essential Mix for BBC Radio 1 and a remix package featuring edits of the song by Claptone, Felix Cartel and more — he’s in a position to demonstrate staying power. “Virality helps, but virality is not a strategy,” Carpel says. “It still comes down to really great music from an artist with a strong voice and brand who connects with an audience, coupled with the right team and strategy around them.”
Tomorrow (Jan. 24), Nimino will release “Shaking Things Up.” Made from a ’60s soul sample and bouncy piano, the song is bright, but also laced with Nimino’s signature emotiveness. “It was very much a case of having done a song in one style, then saying, ‘F–k it. Let’s shake things up.’ ‘I Only Smoke’ was quite dark, quite clubby. ‘Shaking Things Up’ is so bright, so fun and such an outdoor festival kind of vibe.”
But whether one is a longtime fan or just now hearing his name, Nimino assures he’s got something for you.
“My favorite song of mine is genuinely always the one that’s about to come out, or the one I made yesterday,” he says. “So even if you can’t be bothered to check out the songs I’ve released, just follow the ride.”
At just 17, Ty Myers has crafted a 16-song debut album (The Select, out Jan. 24 on RECORDS Nashville/Columbia Records) that blends country songcraft, blues-drenched guitar riffs and soulful, gritty vocals in a way that sounds far beyond his years.
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Myers was born and raised in Austin, a Texas city that boasts over 250 live music venues and has garnered the moniker “Live Music Capital of the World.” So, there’s little wonder that while many of his Gen Z musical contemporaries followed the bedroom TikTok-to-hit performer pathway, Myers’ roots extend back to the vaunted singer-songwriter haunts of Austin. His songwriter father regularly played in Austin’s local venues, while Myers’s grandmother played piano in church.
“My earliest memory is sitting at a bar top at four years old,” Myers tells Billboard. “I have pictures of me just passed out, sleeping on a bar top. I should not have been at that age, but I was always just locked in on music.”
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Myers recalls first singing alongside his father at a now-defunct local Austin venue, Nutty Brown Café & Amphitheatre. By eight, Myers was writing his own songs, and by 11, he was doing full-fledged performances with his father.
“We would do songwriter swaps at local places, just trying to get my foot in the door a bit. Places aren’t usually too quick to let an 11 or 12-year-old come play for people who are trying to have a good time and drink,” Myers recalls. “My dad kind of had relationships at a lot of places and he helped me out.”
Beyond the musical talents of Myers and his parents, he is the nephew of Lonestar member Dean Sams, and Myers notes to Billboard that he also has a familial connection to George Strait’s longtime piano player Ronnie Huckaby.
Along the way, Myers soaked in the sounds of Otis Redding, Jimi Hendrix, George Strait and Chris Stapleton, channeling their influences. By high school, Myers was balancing playing music with playing baseball and football. After he tore his ACL playing football, and realized the recovery process would hinder him from playing for the rest of the season, Myers redoubled his efforts on music, pouring the dogged work ethic he learned growing up on his family’s cattle ranch into songwriting, live performance and guitar playing. He began recording with producer Tommy Detamore, known for his work with artists including Ronnie Milsap, Jim Lauderdale, and The Texas Tornados.
“Growing up, country was always my main influence,” Myers recalls. “So those first sessions were very country-based, which is Tommy’s bread and butter — he’s an old-school steel player. He played with everybody under the sun and he really perfected those first sessions.”
Those sessions created what would become Myers’s breakthrough songs including “Tie that Binds,” “Drinkin’ Alone,” and earnest love song about enduring affection “Ends of the Earth” — and are included on his full-fledged album, alongside songs produced by Brandon Hood, such as the R&B-inflected love song “Firefly,” the horn-laden “Can’t Hold Me Down” and the Americana/country-informed “Drunk Love.”
“I feel like this album is a real culmination of all of my influences,” says Myers, who is managed by Starstruck Entertainment. “I blended everything that I love into one, hopefully unique, sound.”
The album’s title nods to the fictional bar LA Select, featured in author Ernest Hemmingway’s book The Sun Also Rises. “That’s kind of where [the book’s characters] all go,” Myers says. “They leave the world behind, relax and have fun, and lay all their stresses to the ground, which is kind of what I want people to do when they listen to the album.”
The CAA-aligned Myers just launched his 45-show headlining The Select Tour, which is largely sold out and added 19 new dates. Among the tour stops are shows at revered music venues including Gruene Hall in New Braunfels, Texas, and New York City’s Bowery Ballroom.
Myers, Billboard’s January Country Rookie of the Month, told us about the making of his album. navigating his musical breakthrough, and some of his favorite past-times beyond music.
“Tie That Binds” was the song that first caught fans’ attention after it was featured on the TikTok Bonfire Specials. What was it like seeing that initial reaction from both fans and the industry?
It was surreal. We were on family vacation in Key West and that day we were going to drive from Marathon Key to Key West. It’s like a 45-minute drive. And in that time, three labels reached out in 25 minutes—it almost felt like somebody’s playing a prank on you and you don’t know what to expect, going from zero to a hundred like that. And in the days that followed, it felt like every day was a different call.
You are signed with RECORDS Nashville and Columbia. How did that joint deal come about?
It was coming down to either RECORDS or Columbia and we had a meeting in New York. The day before the meeting, we were told, “We want to do a joint meeting with RECORDS and Columbia,” and it turns out they wanted to do the deal together and it couldn’t have been any more perfect.
What advice has your uncle given you about navigating the music industry?
He told me that he was the only one out of the group there at an awards show one time, and he went up [onstage] to accept the award. He saw the video two years later and said he didn’t remember accepting the award, and that’s because he was always thinking about what’s next. So he told me to appreciate the moments.
You wrote “Ends of the Earth” by yourself. What was the writing process for that song like?
I wrote it in my room. I would say about 90% of the songs I write are in my room, but I with that, I knew I wanted to write kind of a soul song. That old-school intro, kind of “boom, boom, boom.” The “Ends of the Earth” idea came next, kind of a play on words that I do in the chorus. I just built it off of that and wrote that one probably within an hour.
How does your live show inform your approach to songwriting?
That’s the number one thing I think about when I’m writing songs, because when you’re performing live, that’s the roots of music. I love playing live.
You’ve opened shows for Randy Rogers Band, Wade Bowen and Cody Johnson. What have you learned from them in regard to live shows?
Randy and Wade love to have fun on stage, so I got that from them. And playing with Cody Johnson, I love studying his show, and how he really gets the audience involved. There’s not very many people who can move at an arena like Cody Johnson..This past year has been a whirlwind for you. What are the moments that stand out?
Opening for Willie [Nelson], getting to sing gospel [music] with him onstage. I could have melted into the stage; it was truly amazing. Looking over and seeing Willie Nelson, and then he says your name onstage, it’s like, “This isn’t real.”
When you are not making music, what do you do for fun in your off time?
Hunting and golf.
Who is your favorite pro golfer?
Tiger Woods, for sure. That’s obvious, though. My second-favorite golfer would be [Jordan] Spieth. He went to [The University of] Texas.
Do you have a favorite podcast?
I love Theo Von. I listen to Theo Von all the time.
On the first day of recording her debut album, Jasmine Cruickshank found herself in one of the most famous recording studios in the world, squeezed into a tiny room and singing with three other people — two of whom were Phoebe Bridgers and Lucy Dacus.
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Cruickshank, the British singer-songwriter who performs as Jasmine.4.t, had just arrived in Los Angeles from her home in Manchester, and had met her band mate Phoenix Rousiamanis at Sound City Studios, the birthplace of albums like Neil Young’s After the Gold Rush and Nirvana’s Nevermind. “Phoebe was giving us a tour of the studio, because that was where Punisher was recorded,” Cruickshank tells Billboard. “She took me, Phoenix and Lucy in the Echo Chamber, which is this concrete room where they create natural reverbs and just has this really beautiful sound. And they were like, ‘Oh, let’s sing a song!’”
The quartet began harmonizing on “Kitchen,” the wounded, finger-picked folk song which would become the first track on the first Jasmine.4.t album. Cruickshank exhales thinking about the sing-along. “It was just this beautiful moment,” she says.
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It was one that would have been unimaginable for Cruickshank just a few years ago. A trans woman who came out in 2021, Cruickshank spent months without a home after her marriage fell apart, alienated from loved ones who did not accept her — but also embracing her new identity, finding uplift in Manchester’s queer community, and experiencing the joy of her first trans romance.
The highs and lows of that whirlwind experience are captured in brilliant detail on You Are the Morning, her debut album released on Friday (Jan. 17). Although Jasmine.4.t’s songs span different iterations of indie rock — guitars whoosh on “Skin On Skin” and are gently strummed on “Best Friend’s House,” while piano and strings are effectively dotted across the album — her soft, subtly powerful voice remains the album’s foundation, an uncompromising instrument sharing a one-of-a-kind story.
Not only is Jasmine.4.t the first U.K. signee on Bridgers’ label, Saddest Factory Records, but You Are the Morning was produced by Bridgers, Dacus and Julien Baker, the three members of the arena-level indie supergroup Boygenius. Their individual presences are felt throughout the album — Bridgers duets on the mid-tempo rocker “Guy Fawkes Tesco Dissociation,” for instance, and all three members sing backing vocals on the hushed ballad “Highfield” — in a way that will delight Boygenius completists. Plus, Jasmine.4.t and her all-trans backing band will be opening for Dacus on her North American headlining tour, which kicks off in April.
Yet You Are the Morning stands on its own as a breathtaking debut, which is why Jasmine.4.t is Billboard’s inaugural Rock/Alternative Rookie of the Month. Below, Cruickshank discusses her personal journey, her friendship with Dacus, creating art alongside the trans community, and more. [Editor’s note: this interview was been condensed for clarity.]
How did the label deal with Saddest Factory come together?
I knew Phoebe through Lucy, and I knew Lucy pre-transition. I used to play in this two-piece garage rock band, and we opened for Sunflower Bean, and the promoter didn’t pay us. We and Sunflower Bean were [arguing] with the promoter as a consequence, and the boss of the promotion company was like, “You’ll never play in this town again!” But then the local promoter was like, “Don’t worry about him. I’ll make sure you get some really nice shows off the back of this horrible experience.”
One of the shows that he got me was a solo show opening for Lucy Dacus, on her first album tour. And then we just got on so well — we had pizza next door before the show. Lucy was like, “I’d love to have you along for my next tour in Europe,” which was for the Historian album, which I f–king love. We really bonded on that tour, and then we kept in touch, and sent each other downloads, quite a lot.
I got really sick during lockdown, and I had a lot of time alone with my thoughts — insulated from the societal pressures and expectations of masculinity. And I was like, “You know what? I think I’m gonna transition.” And Lucy was actually one of the first people that I came out to, and Lucy was a lot more accepting than a lot of the other people in my life.
I ended up having to escape my marriage and Bristol, my hometown. I came to stay with some friends up in Manchester, and was sleeping on sofas and floors, and in people’s spare rooms for a while. That was when I wrote the songs that are on the album, and I was sending them back and forth with Lucy as well. And she was like, “Oh, I’d love to produce your music.”
I submitted a little demo playlist to Saddest Factory. A few months later, Lucy was like, “We just listened to your demos in the car, and Phoebe is now on the phone with her manager, talking about signing you.” And then I opened for Boygenius when they came to to the UK, which was wild, and then I think it was the next day that I signed.
How did all three members of Boygenius become so involved with creating the album?
I formed a band of trans women here in Manchester, and the label flew us out to L.A. to record at Sound City Studios. Lucy has already said that she wanted to produce, and when Phoebe signed me, she was like, “Actually, I want to produce the record.” Then Phoebe called me before we flew out and said, “Actually, I think Julien’s gonna be in town, so we’re thinking — we’re all gonna produce, together.”
I can’t even imagine what it was like to hear that.
I was like, “This is the best thing that’s ever gonna happen to me.” It was so cool working with them all in the studio. They all brought so much to the recording process, and seeing them work together, it’s so cool how ego-less they all are when interacting — it so easy to create with them, just a very chill environment.
They’ve obviously built this way of working together and creating their records, this routine, and part of that routine is Julien’s ’tone quest,’ where Julien would spend a good hour or two selecting guitars, selecting amplifiers, selecting pedals, different microphones. It’s something that I’d never put too much thought into myself before, but then just seeing Julien talk about guitar tones, it just gave me so much joy and warmth. Having Julien solos on a few of the songs — in particular, I f–king love the solos on “Skin on Skin” — they just really make the tracks.
Your songwriting contains so many details about the singular journey you’ve taken as a person. How healing of a process to put this album together, and finish songs that were written at a very different point in your life?
It’s insane thinking about where I was when I was writing these songs — I was really struggling, honestly. I thought I was already dead — I had this persistent delusion that I had died, and that I was living as some kind of ghost or zombie. “Guy Fawkes Tesco Dissociation” is about that experience.
And thinking about now, where I’ve found my people, I’m in my own home, I own this house, I have a whole new family. I’ve gone to L.A. and recorded an album with Lucy and Phoebe and Julien, and I have a band, and it’s all trans women. I never could have anticipated this, and it has been very healing. And I hope that it can bring some kind of hope for a brighter future for other trans women as well who’ve been through similar situations.
I think what I’ve been through is sadly a very common experience for a lot of trans women. So many trans people experience homelessness. I’ve experienced a lot of street violence, and that’s very common as well. Not to mention suicide, sadly. Right now in the U.K. and in the U.S., it’s a horrible time to come out as a trans woman — it’s not safe. And it’s kind of terrifying doing what I’m doing right now and being so visible. I get a lot of s–t on the streets and online, as all trans women do. But I think it’s worth it because I get so much love, and so many [positive] messages. Just today, someone was like, “I just listened to ‘Elephant’ for the first time, I transitioned like 10 years ago, and I don’t think that anyone has captured these feelings of loving someone as a trans person for the first time as accurately.”
I think we’re going through so much as a community. Every November, we have a day called Trans Day of Remembrance, where we list all of the trans people who have died by violence over the past year — and this year was more than any other year before. It’s such a tiny community, and we all feel so close to death, we all feel so close to these experiences, whether we’re lucky enough to have a stable life or not. It’s difficult for people who don’t experience that to grasp, and I think that we often feel so distanced from society at large as a consequence. We often meet friction when our needs aren’t met or we’re not understood, and even well-meaning people can play into systemic imbalances that we see when we’re so underrepresented in the music industry, or society at large. It means a lot for people to feel seen and understood, and I feel very lucky to be able to provide that through my music — and to be able to talk about these things on a more mainstream, visible platform.
You mentioned your band of all trans women, and you also worked with the Trans Chorus of Los Angeles on the final song, “Woman.” Considering this moment in history, what has it been like to be surrounded by other members of the trans community while performing?
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said “this moment in history,” because it did feel like we were making history. There were so many moments where we looked around in this iconic studio, that has meant so much to music history, are were all very aware of what those moments [meant]. On the last day in the Studio A live room, which is the biggest live room at Sound City — to be in there, recording in a room completely full of trans people, it just felt like such a magical moment.
I think we were all aware of the cultural and societal context that is the backdrop for this album, and how important it is to be spotlighting trans artists and raising each other up, and how terrifying it is to be visible. It was incredibly emotional. I remember there was a moment where Phoenix was conducting the chorus, and I looked around, and Lucy had tears in her eyes, just watching it all happen.
We definitely all felt that we were creating this piece of history, and I hope that it can be remembered that we filled that space with trans people. But even if it’s not, to us personally, it just meant so much.
Less than 12 months ago, Hudson Westbrook was attending school and making a living breaking cattle in his native Texas, with plans to join his family working in the oil and gas industry. Instead, he’s released a self-titled debut EP, has a slate of hit streaming songs to his credit — including “5 to 9” and “House Again” — and has swiftly added his name to a growing crop of new artists forging their music on traditional country sounds and timeless songwriting.
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“It’s been crazy,” Westbrook tells Billboard of his whirlwind year. “It’s gone way better than I expected, and I’d be happy if we had even half of the success we’ve had so far.”
Growing up in Stephenville, Westbrook’s life revolved around sports and farm life. He was part of a state championship-winning high school football team. He also worked with cattle and was involved with Future Farmers of America, serving as a chapter president for 75 schools.
He began playing guitar in 2020 and wrote his first song after enrolling at Texas Tech last year. In April Westbrook released his breakthrough song “Take It Slow,” which has earned over 10 million Spotify streams. Soon after he released his first video, Hudson says various music executives began reaching out, so he sought advice from a fellow Texan and musician, Grant Gilbert, who pointed him toward the Warner Music Nashville-distributed River House Artists.
“He was like, ‘These are the best people I can guide you towards,’ and then I talked to a booking agent and they said the same thing — ‘I trust them. I’ve seen it firsthand.’” Westbrook says.
Now with River House, and managed by River House’s director of creative/A&R Zebb Luster, Westbrook has followed with a steady slate of resonant songs over the past several months, including “Dopamine,” the romantic “5 to 9” (11.5 million Spotify streams since its August release) and the sobering “House Again” (over 14 million Spotify streams since its October release). In the process, he’s seen his Spotify followers swell to more than 2.6 million monthly listeners.
“When I started writing, I really was pushing myself to get outside of my comfort zone and find who I am as an artist,” Westbrook says. “When we released ‘5 to 9,’ I was like, ‘This is real; I think this can work.’ I feel like that’s a major reason why this is working right now, is because I’m writing about stuff that I’m experiencing firsthand.”
Westbrook’s “House Again” reached No. 14 on Billboard‘s Hot Country Songs chart. In November came his seven-song, self-titled project, which reached No. 46 on Top Country Albums, while Westbrook rose to No. 25 on Emerging Artists. According to Luminate, Westbrook’s catalog has earned 79.6 million official on-demand U.S. streams.
Those streams have translated to burgeoning concert audiences, and Westbrook says he’s doing his best to connect with as many of his fans as possible.
“We did a free show at Billy Bob’s in Fort Worth and a thousand people showed up,” he recalls. “The merch line was four hours long, and I sat there and signed all those. Then, we went to open for Midland [in September] and the merch line was still going by the middle of their set.”
Westbrook seems poised to continue his ascendant trajectory in 2025. January will see the launch of his own headlining tour, while he will also play several country festivals in the summer. He also has his sights set on releasing a full album.
Westbrook, Billboard’s Country Rookie of the Month for December, opened up about his career journey, songwriting, and his favorite music.
What is the story behind “House Again”?
We came up with the hook and I was like, “What if this was about my parents’ divorce?” and we wrote about just little things that I experienced as a child, watching as my parents got divorced. I used to live in the country with tons of land around our house, then I had to move to a golf course [community] with like point zero of an acre around it. It was a big change. I feel like it was expressing my frustration as a kid, watching that happen and not being able to control any of it or figure out why it’s not working.
You worked with several top songwriters on your EP, including Marv Green. What was it like writing songs for this project?
It was great. I was very nervous. You’re a new artist, your whole life just changed. These people have been doing this for years and have written number ones and you’re like, “Screw me. I’m going into this room and anything I say is going to sound dumb.” I feel like the day we wrote “House Again” was the first day that really opened up, like “This was my idea. This was my experience.” I realized I have to make sure I speak up about my experiences, and that I’m writing about something that I experienced because I relate to that best and I can write towards that best.
Who would you like to write or record with?
I think Randy Montana is my dream [co-writer], and Dean Dillon. I love all the older dudes that have created country into what it is today. And then I think for collabs, Megan Moroney would be really cool, and Parker McCollum or Ella Langley.
What is a song you wish you had written?
“Like a Cowboy” by Parker McCollum, written by Chris Stapleton and Al Anderson.
What is your desert island album?
Benson Boone’s Fireworks & Rollerblades.
What is your take on the current state of country music?
I think everything new is going to go back to old. I think people are leaning toward sounds like Merle Haggard and Tracy Lawrence. I think we’re seeing that firsthand with Zach Top. People are leaning towards those older sounds.
What television show are you watching right now?
I started watching Landman on Paramount Plus. It’s a movie about what I would be doing if I wasn’t doing music. I watch it and I’m like, “Dude, there’s still something there.” I still would love to do that one day. I’ve never watched Yellowstone, but Landman right now is my stuff.
What is a holiday memory that stands out to you?
I think a Christmas memory that stood out to me is [from] three Christmases ago, when my grandpa was about to pass away. He sat all of us down and told us that he was going to pass away, but he prayed and said that everything was going to be okay. He was like, “Don’t worry about me. Y’all keep doing Christmas at my house. Y’all are always welcome to do Christmas here.” It was really sad, but it was really cool to watch him be like, ‘Y’all are still welcome here.”
What does being from Texas mean to you?
I’m always going to stay loyal to Texas. I live in Lubbock. If you live in Nashville — and not hating on anyone that lives [in Nashville] — but it can become a very cycle-based lifestyle. Write at 10, write at 2, play shows on the weekend — I love music, but I find beauty in separating yourself from what you love, so that you love it more once you do it again.
Hailey Knox has lived many lives.
There’s the doe-eyed, guitar-toting singer-songwriter who, along with her sister Samantha in their duo The Knox Sisters, performed covers at intimate clubs and coffee shops in her native New York in 2012. There’s the solo act, who drew inspiration from Justin Bieber‘s YouTube take off and Ed Sheeran‘s one-man band performances, as Knox paved her own path with an acoustic guitar, loop pedal and soulful voice that makes up the essential core of her music even to this day.
Then there’s Hailey Knox the teenage internet sensation, who built a massive fanbase on the live-streaming app YouNow, where she performed more covers and original songs from her bedroom, that led to her first record label deal with S-Curve Records in 2015. The following year, she released her debut EP A Little Awkward, a short collection of poignant yet playful adolescent pop songs that felt like they were ripped right out of her diary. She made Awkward with renowned producers Michael Mangini (Joss Stone, David Byrne) and Peter Zizzo (Celine Dion, Jennifer Lopez) – who discovered Knox years ago through her YouTube covers – as well as songwriter Imani Coppola.
Her viral acclaim continued paving the way for her first breakthrough: getting a co-sign from Meghan Trainor, opening for Charlie Puth’s We Don’t Talk Anymore Tour in 2016 and AJR’s What Everyone’s Thinking Tour in 2017, and scoring a nomination in the new social star award category at the 2017 iHeartRadio Music Awards. She kept the momentum going with the release of her 2018 mixtape Hardwired, on which Knox showcased her confessional and cunning lyricism about romantic uncertainty and adjusting to life on the road as well as her boundary-pushing indie-soul sound through fully fleshed out tracks and late-night voice memos.
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But Knox truly can’t fit her genre inside any one box. She later dabbled with rap on braggadocious singles like “Butterfly Doors” and “Gucci Prada Balenciaga,” the latter of which interpolates Mike Jones’ 2004 debut single “Still Tippin’,” featuring Paul Wall and Slim Thug. The genre’s self-assured cadence stuck with her most as she continued experimenting with her sound, exploring various musical styles while learning production and new melodic flows through “trial and error,” she tells Billboard over Zoom from her Los Angeles home.
And now, there’s Hailey Knox the multidisciplinary star. SZA sang her praises earlier this year when she teased “Stranger,” a brooding ballad about wasting time with someone you wish you never knew, and “11th Hour,” an intoxicating earworm about a selfish ex wanting to salvage a relationship even though it’s too late. Those singles were eventually included on her 2024 EP For the Best, which she released in July via 10K Projects.
Across its eight tracks, Knox bares all about the intimate lifecycle of her own seven-year relationship through spellbinding vocals that tug at the heartstrings and polished, R&B-leaning production. “We were writing about stuff we go through, which was kind of therapeutic in a weird way,” she says. “Even though we did end up back together through the breaks and everything, I think it was for the best because there’s a lot of love there.” For the Best has garnered 33.5 million official on-demand U.S. song streams through Nov. 21, according to Luminate.
Billboard spoke with December’s R&B/Hip-Hop Rookie of the Month about why producing “opened more doors” for Knox’s genre experimentation, how Russ’ open verse challenge led to her first major collaboration and how she and her boyfriend opened up about their past relationship troubles while co-writing songs on her latest EP For the Best.
When did your fascination with the guitar begin?
My dad taught me [when] I was 7 years old. He would come home and jam, it was definitely a hobby for him. My first song I learned was “Blackbird” by The Beatles, it was very finger style. I grew up in a really musical household. I was in a duo with my sister for a few years. It’s something naturally I’ve always been drawn to.
Which guitar players did you look up to?
I grew up listening to Dave Matthews Band because my dad would listen to him a lot. And Ed Sheeran because he does a lot of percussive guitar stuff that I probably subconsciously picked up on.
When did your interest in making loops begin, and how did you start learning to create them?
The first loop I got was a one track, so I would do a lot of experimenting with that. I was 16 or 17. And the one that I’ve been using in my videos is this handheld Boss RC-500 my mom got me as a gift for Christmas. It sparked this whole different thing because online, people love to see the process and it’s a really good way to get my ideas out without thinking about it.
How often do the loops you create become the groundwork for songs you end up releasing?
It’s 50/50. For the most part, I do it for fun and just jam for hours. And sometimes it’s not even to make a song. But there’s been some instances like “Available For Me” [where] I did the loop not thinking anything of it, posting the video, and people really loved this guitar riff. So I was like, “Man, I gotta make this a song,” because it went crazy viral. It’s an interesting way to see what people resonate with.
When did you start producing?
During COVID, I really dove in. When I worked on my first EP, I had been around producers absorbing as much information as I could.
What kind of music did you grow up listening to, and how has that informed the music that you currently make?
So much different stuff, between what my parents listened to – Stevie Wonder, Dave Matthews Band – but then I also loved Miley Cyrus and Aly and AJ. My first concert was Hilary Duff. I loved those pop girlies and people that really went for it.
And who are you listening to now?
A little jazz, a little Yussef Dayes. Mk.gee. People that are all about the music.
Your music has evolved a lot over the years. A few years ago you were making acoustic ballads and indie pop songs. But now, you’ve dug deeper into R&B. How did you make that sonic transition?
Because I am a music lover, naturally I’m doing a lot of different things and seeing what excites me the most. Nobody has one phase of what they listen to, the same way I make music. I like to explore different pockets. I started out in a singer-songwriter space with guitar. When I started producing is when it opened more doors for me. I produced “Gucci Prada Balenciaga.” I got into a really big rap phase of loving Baby Keem. I love the way hip-hop makes you feel [and] hypes you up. When I produced “Charismatic,” that was a space for me to make a record where I can feel really confident in myself. I have a lot of different sides to me. One day, I feel like the more Hardwired Hailey, but other days, I’m like, “No, I f–k with Doja Cat so much. That could be sick to try something like this.” I don’t like to box myself in.
How did you eventually find your flow?
It was a lot of experimenting with my voice, playing with my tone and seeing what feels the most authentic and natural. I think “Butterfly Doors” hit a little too far one way, and “11th Hours” is where I felt most confident. I was like, “Oh, I like this space right here. It’s a little touch of R&B, but I’m still singing from a place that feels genuine to me.” [Sometimes] the perfectionism kicks in and I’m like, “I don’t want it to feel too perfect.” I want there to be that freeness.
When was the first time you remember going viral?
There were a lot of little moments in my career, but maybe the first was when I collaborated with my friend Juno and we did this video cover of “It’s Strange” [by Louis the Child, featuring K. Flay]. And then the Russ thing was a big moment because I had gone independent from my label. TikTok was hitting at that point, and I was like, “Let me explore this and see what I can do.” Open verses were really big, and I did an open verse to his song [“Remember”] and then he put me on the actual record. To see the power of the internet in that way, I was like, “Wow.” I flew out to his house, and we worked on the song. He was really sweet.
You were an internet sensation on YouNow in 2016. Almost a decade later, you’re experiencing viral success yet again but on TikTok. What are the similarities and differences between your experiences with both platforms, especially as it pertains to promoting and performing your own music?
When I was on YouNow, it was all about livestreaming. There was a bit of collaboration, too, because people go live together, the same way people do now. YouNow is more in real time, telling people, “Hey, I put a song out! Go listen.” Or you’d play the song on live. With TikTok, I’m always trying to find unique ways to promote the song because nowadays, our attention span is zero. [Laughs] I like to lead with the music, regardless of what platform, and show people something I made, whether it’s a breakdown of the beat or something I produced within the record. The passion of what I do comes through.
Last December, you posted a freestyle on Instagram about the “story of my life” that spoke on the challenges of being an artist in today’s music industry, from the faux affectionate moochers to the “algorithm A&Rs.” You sang, “I questioned my career, almost pivoted.” Did you have a Plan B if music didn’t work out?
I do not. Naturally, there’s self-doubt with any artistic thing you do. It’s a full-time job – there’s so much that goes into it day to day, like branding and sessions and being “on” at all times but also finding the vulnerability in opening up and trusting people to collaborate with. I don’t have a Plan B. This is what I’m doing.
The beat for that freestyle was from Drake’s “Stories About My Brother.” Why was that the right choice?
I loved that beat. Conductor [Williams] actually sent me some beats too, I love his stuff. It feels old-school but still modern. He’s really talented.
SZA commented “Ate” underneath the clip, and it’s not the first time she’s publicly supported you and your music. How did you react when you saw her comment, and what does her co-sign mean to you?
It’s kind of wild. I have a hard time really allowing things to sink in like that. I’m like, “SZA? Are you kidding me?” I love her so much.
What was the inspiration behind For the Best?
I was reflecting on my relationship, which I’ve been in for seven years, and I write with my boyfriend a lot. We were writing about stuff we go through, which was kind of therapeutic in a weird way. The majority of the project is [about] relationships and realizing even though we did end up back together through the breaks and everything, I think it was for the best because there’s a lot of love there.
Was it hard to revisit those rough moments with your man?
We’re in a good place, so to revisit these times and relive this stuff that I don’t want to relive, it puts this weird energy in the room like, “Wait, we’re back here?” We’re writing about these emotional times and difficult things we’ve gone through, and still being in a good place, but you’re living in that place, too. That was the hardest part.
[But] we communicate really well, and we find a way to write these unique almost rap bars through melody. We balance each other out in that way, and it’s cool ‘cause we both write and I find ways to put melody to some of his lyrics.
Did it feel cathartic for the both of you?
With “Innocence,” it’s talking a little bit about him being my first love and diving into that hook of “something’s gotta change” and feeling like there’s something that could be better in the relationship, but I don’t know how to let him know that. Those moments of “Do I communicate this, or is it going to ruin our relationship?” So, I guess.
I love the beat breakdown you did for “Don’t Matter” on TikTok. What was the most intricate song to produce on For The Best?
“Don’t Matter” actually was the hardest because it was a whole other song before, like all new verses, it was more guitar-based. And then I ended up reproducing the entire thing last minute because I felt like I’d outgrown this acoustic part of me, not completely, but in that sense of this song. I was like, “I need to reinvent this song somehow because I want to feel excited about it.”
On the contrary, what was the easiest and quickest song to produce?
The reinvention of “Stranger” came kind of quickly. The first record was more in this R&B, slow chill mood. And I was like, “Let me explore because I think it could be nice to bring the tempo up.”
Which song are you most excited to perform?
“11th Hour.” That one’s going to be just a vibe live.
I loved the promo song you made for your tour last month to the beat of 50 Cent’s “Candy Shop.” How did you come up with that idea, from the song itself to the video of you riding around in a blue toy car?
It’s funny, I guess it’s similar to “Candy Shop,” but I literally just made the beat and then people were like, “This sounds like ‘Candy Shop.’” And I was like, “Oh sh–, I guess it kind of does.” I was like, “Let’s find a fun way to promote this tour.” And that was the first thing we thought about. I had that blue car sitting here forever, it was for “Butterfly Doors.” I tried to do a video years ago with it and it was really bad, so we did not put it out. But I used it in the tour video.
What’s been the biggest “pinch me” moment of your career so far?
The moments with SZA and Justin Bieber [following me on Instagram] are really big because they’re people that I admire, and it gives me a little bit of the confidence I need some days where I’m like, “Oh sh–, people f—k with me.”
Manifest your next biggest career accomplishment.
I want to collaborate more with artists next year and put more stuff out without dissecting the sh—out of it [Laughs] and not overthinking my steps all the time. We’re in a world where you’ve got to stay on top of things, but I also don’t want to force anything, so finding that balance for myself.
Are there any artists you’d love to collaborate with in the future?
I love Yussef Dayes, he’s an incredible drummer. SZA, throwing it out there. Justin Bieber.
What’s next for Hailey Knox?
I am planning on releasing some songs top of next year that I’m finishing up now and am really excited about.
In just two months, MEOVV has leaped onto the K-pop scene by showcasing a promising range and bold artistry set to claw out a legacy all their own.
The five-member girl group is the first-ever launched by THEBLACKLABEL, the agency founded by legendary producer Teddy with over 25 years in crafting K-pop classics by the likes of BIGBANG, 2NE1, PSY and BLACKPINK, that now houses top talent like Rosé, Taeyang, Jeon Somi and more. The excitement around MEOVV’s debut translated into a record deal with Columbia Records, millions of views on the group’s intriguing, fashion-forward teaser visuals, and bold debut single “MEOW” roaring onto Billboard’s World Digital Song Sales chart at No. 10 in September.
Despite the ultra-polished visuals and Teddy’s guiding hand, MEOVV balances raw confidence and relatability as seen in their two new singles: the energetic anthem “BODY” and emotionally charged “TOXIC.” The songs establish the five-piece’s immense range of potential, effortlessly transitioning from a fierce, pump-up track to a throbbing, electro-pop midtempo with universal emotional resonance.
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MEOVV members Sooin, Gawon, Anna, Narin and Ella’s impressive multilingual abilities — able to communicate in English, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, and Spanish — are matched by an undeniable warmth and relatability. Speaking with Billboard from Seoul during an evening Zoom call, the members spoke mostly in English but flowed seamlessly between languages, exuding a genuine camaraderie that belied their relatively short time as a group. Even with just months under their belts as a team, the group spoke about the pride they had in their music (especially as “TOXIC” was co-written by Gawon and Narin) and hoping to be a place of comfort for fans (emphasizing how they want to be relatable and authentic).
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As MEOVV continue to prowl forward on their journey together, get to know the K-Pop Rookie of the Month for November 2024 as they share details about how they formed, advice from BLACKPINK, their inner cats and more.
MEOVV just debuted in September with two new singles in November. How have these past couple of weeks and months been for you?
GAWON: Wow. Super hectic, but very exciting.
ELLA: Where we came out with our debut only about a month ago, we got to see a lot about how we kind of are on stage in front of people so it was really a good learning period of time to see what we could do better, what we could maybe work on or keep doing. It was like a good time to learn and grow. And now we’re ready for our next release.
Can you tell us how MEOVV formed and what it was like when the five of you came together?
NARIN: We all come from different backgrounds and have lived very different lives. So when we first met at THEBLACKLABEL, we were like complete strangers. But I think we also had that strong connection to each other since we all love music — we have a strong, shared passion for music, shared vision, common interests and everything. I think it was very natural for us to connect to each other and really become a team.
GAWON: Yeah, I think that just brought us together. And then one day we just found ourselves recording “MEOW,” filming videos, preparing, and rehearsing. SOOIN unnie and I knew each other from a few years back and then we reunited at THEBLACKLABEL and it was like, “Oh my God, what the heck, you’re here!”
NARIN: And I think when we first started recording our first debut song, “MEOW,” we all have so different voices and it’s very unique, but when recording, it was all just like becoming one song.
GAWON: And I think we started to feel like, “Oh, this makes so much sense.” Like, when we were also in the studio, we just sonically made sense. At that time, we didn’t really like, know each other on a deeper, deeper level so I think through those kind of processes and preparing for our debut, we got to know each other and we bonded over that. I think it just felt right. Yeah, it felt right.
You are the first group from THEBLACKLABEL, millions of people have viewed just your trailer teasers, the “MEOW” music video earned over 30 million views. Did you feel pressure to live up to any expectations?
ELLA: I think there definitely was times of pressure, but I think it was mostly, like, excitement — we were excited to finally put out music now. But when there were moments of pressure, I think we channeled it well into working hard.
GAWON: Yeah and when there were moments of pressure, it was mostly just excitement. Like, “Yeah! We’re gonna debut! Yeah!” I think we were able to turn that into motivation and just fuel for the fire that we had while preparing to be out in the world.
MEOVV is the newest girl group produced by Teddy, a legendary producer. Were you Teddy fans or fans of any of the artists he worked with in the past?
SOOIN: We were all definitely fans.
GAWON: I came from the States, but I was still surrounded by his music growing up. It’s just everywhere.
NARIN: And his music is just so iconic.
GAWON: With the legacy that he created in music, we’re just so excited to be able to continue that as MEOVV. I love everyone and everyone he worked with — even 1TYM!
K-pop fans may have knew ELLA’s background and being close with the BLACKPINK members. How did you get to know them?
ELLA: It just came naturally because when I first came to THEBLACKLABEL, I met them when I was really young, just one time in the studio when they were working. Then while we were preparing for our debut, we got a lot of tips and advice from them so they’re really supportive. It’s kind of crazy thinking like, “Oh, I met them kind of doing what we’re doing now.”
GAWON: It really puts things into perspective. They’re so sweet and give such such great advice.
ELLA: They’ve been doing this for so long — it’s like, what better person to get advice from than them? They know it best.
In September, “MEOW” debuted at No. 10 on the World Digital Song Sales chart. Did you see the news?
NARIN: I definitely remember the moment when GAWON unnie found it out and then she told us — I think we were in the elevator, yeah —
GAWON: I was just scrolling and I was like, “Huh? What?”
ELLA: We didn’t believe her at first!
NARIN: We said, “What do you mean Billboard? What do you mean?” And then we all started cheering.
ALL: Yay, Billboard! [Cheering and laughing]
Let’s discuss the new singles “TOXIC” and “BODY.” What do these songs mean to MEOVV?
GAWON: Well these two new releases are very different from “MEOW.” The two songs are very contrasting to each other. But at the same time, they’re able to simultaneously compliment each other in a way where it just balances everything out.
NARIN: “TOXIC” is very emotional and very honest; it’s more vulnerable. We’re also more emotionally attached to this one because we wrote the lyrics. It’s been a minute since we wrote, but GAWON and I were in the studio and they just put on a random song, which was just the beat and maybe melodies for the chorus on “TOXIC.”
GAWON: Yeah, melodies for the chorus and a theme of “toxic.” This song is about being toxic and then, um, he [Teddy] left us in the studio. He was like, “Oh, I have to go do something. You guys do whatever you want with it. Have fun.” [Laughs]
NARIN: I love how the emotions that we had while writing lyrics are now for everyone to share with us.
GAWON: It shines in the music video too, it’s just a lot of shared emotions. It’s kind of like a full circle moment. We love “TOXIC.”
Would it be safe to say “TOXIC” is everyone’s favorite single over “BODY”?
NARIN: Oh, that’s very tricky because “BODY” feels like one of our members now — it’s like our friend. It’s always there in the practice room…
ELLA: It’s always there…
GAWON: …in the car. It’s this kind of energy that we just hold with us everywhere we go. Especially moments before stage, we’re like, “Let’s go, let’s go!”
How was shooting the music videos?
GAWON: Oh my god, it’s so special…both videos for each of the songs hold a very special place in our heart because It was very natural; it was very pure. Like us in our purest forms [for “TOXIC”].
ELLA: It wasn’t even like a music video shoot. It was just like, “Oh, it was like a hangout moment” and they were just capturing the moment. And then with “BODY” it’s just like, we just had so much fun; we just had so much fun having a party. We were bonding after that.
ANNA: There was a scene [in “TOXIC”] where we were just like running around the street, just playing like little girls, Everyone was watching us. Actually. It wasn’t like a set, It was just [outside] on the street and when the light green, It was like, “Let’s just go!” and then we started running, jumping, lying down. It was really nice.
ELLA: It wasn’t a [traditional music video] set, we were outside and when recording started, it was like, “Let’s just go!” and we started running, jumping, lying down.
What messages do you want to share with “TOXIC” and “BODY”?
NARIN: They’re both about our raw emotions and our authenticity.
GAWON: They’re very honest so I feel like people could look forward to that and we hope that a lot of people can resonate with both songs in these different aspects of being confident but also at the same time being able to be more vulnerable about your true emotions and your experiences.
ELLA: I hope that when people watch the music video, they’re entertained by watching us and our sort of vulnerability and emotion, but they are also like they also can kind of find that with themselves.
GAWON: Yeah, I hope they see themselves in us.
As a fun question about your concept, I’d love to know what kind of cat your members identify with one another.
ELLA: Starting with GAWON unnie, she’s such a big cat — like a leopard.
SOOIN: Or a cheetah! She has long legs too, she’s big and tall.
ELLA: And she likes cheetah print so it’s your vibe.
NARIN: And Anna Jang?
ELLA: She’s like a kitten!
NARIN: You’re like a little, white English Shorthair; that’s what you are!
ELLA: But it has to be a baby,
SOOIN: A small, shy baby, kitten.
ANNA: I agree with that. [Laughs]
NARIN: I feel like SOOIN needs blue eyes, because she loves blue, she’s obsessed with blue…
SOOIN: I love blue. [Shows blue accessories, notebook and blue phone case]
ELLA: So, a Siamese cat with blue eyes.
SOOIN: I like it.
ELLA: And for NARIN, I think you’re not a regular cat but from The Aristocats animation, what’s the one with the pink bow’s name? Marie from The Aristocats, yeah.
GAWON: She is so Marie.
NARIN: Thanks, I like that.
GAWON: You know what you are, ELLA? You are Puss in Boots — like a tabby cat.
NARIN: With the smirk.
ELLA: Yeah, I like the orange ones — that’s my personality too. I like it.
Thank you for the very satisfying answers across the board. To wrap up, looking at MEOVV overall, what are your goals and dreams as a group?
ELLA: I just hope that people will get inspired listening to our music and maybe discover more about themselves and their emotions.
GAWON: Being able to connect with more people through our music, I just want people to feel something when they see us. Whatever emotion that may be, just to share experiences and feelings together. In terms of goals, I think we just want to establish MEOVV further and just create our identity and while also keeping our own individuality.
What else should we look forward to, or do you want to share with fans now?
SOOIN: We have so many songs that we’re working on and we picked the best out of the best for this release. So, it’s just only a bit of what they’re about to show to the world. We hope that people are looking forward to us in the future!
ANNA: This time, our songs are really good so I want to show a better performance while preparing for it. In the future, I hope I can show it to the fans around the world soon.
GAWON: One last thing I would like to say is that we’ll just thank you for your continued support — all the fans and everyone who is tuning into our music.
In just two months, MEOVV has leaped onto the K-pop scene by showcasing a promising range and bold artistry set to claw out a legacy all their own. The five-member girl group is the first-ever launched by THEBLACKLABEL, the agency founded by legendary producer Teddy with over 25 years in crafting K-pop classics by the […]
It’s refreshing to discover new artists in this day and age. The Internet has essentially blurred the lines between what constitutes as underground these days, and depending on who you’re talking to, one can make the case that the world wide web has replaced the underground scene in hip-hop completely with social platforms like TikTok being critical to new music discovery.
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Enter Laila!, the teenage Brooklyn phenom with rap royalty coursing through her veins. The daughter of Yasiin Bey (formally knowns as Mos Def), her songs “Like That” and “Not My Problem” went viral before the masses really knew what she looked like. It wasn’t until she performed the songs on YouTube shows On the Radar and From the Block, that we really got a chance to put a face to the music we kept hearing on social media. She sings, raps, writes, and produces everything herself and her stage presences isn’t half bad either.
Last month, Laila! performed her first headlining show at Baby’s All Right in Brooklyn, a place that’s earning the reputation as the first venue to catch your favorite up-and-coming artist. The place was packed to the brim and featured a diverse crowd of all races, ages, and creeds coupled with an infectious energy in the air as we all waited for her to hit the stage. She ran through the hits, but also performed some cuts from her earlier work featured on her In Ctrl! EP that fans in the crowd seemed to know the words to. There was also a part of the show where she reminded me of her father.
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In the middle of her set, Laila! brought out the keyboard and started jamming out and singing. Yasiin did something similar in back in 2010 during his Martin Luther King Day Weekend performance at the Highline Ballroom. During the middle of his performance, Bey hopped on the drums and started jamming out, too. I don’t know, it just felt like a surreal, full circle moment. “That’s sweet,” she said when I brought it up during our talk. “I get anxious, but I like being on stage. I like showing people that I’m versatile.” And versatile she is, all you have to do is check out her debut album Gap Year! if you haven’t already.
We talked about a wide range of topics including her freestyling with her father and Jay Electronica in Puerto Rico when she was just a kid. Hopefully, that footage will be released from the vaults one of these days. Maybe for the documentary.
Check out our chat with Laila!, October’s Rookie of the Month, below.
I went to your show at Baby’s All Right in Brooklyn, so I want to lead off with that. Tell me about that experience, because you seemed nervous at first, but you did pretty good for it being your first headlining show.
Yeah, I was definitely really nervous. I always get really nervous before I got on stage. I don’t know what it is, I just get super anxious. But then when I saw everyone’s energy and how excited they were to be there, it was just really beautiful. It was special for me, so I kind of was able to calm down and give them a good show.
I was impressed because people knew the words to songs that were relatively new.
That was the most insane part to me. Just to hear them, not even just singing the most popular songs, but the other ones too. It was just insane. It was very big for me. It was also my first time ever in front of my own audience, people that really came specifically to see me. It was really special. I was able to take pictures with some of them and sign stuff. And it was just really sweet. It was the sweetest thing ever.
I’m assuming you had a lot of family and friends there too because it was a packed house, and you could tell some people were family.
I had some people from my high school, my tías [my aunts] were there. Like, just everybody. But then there were kids with their parents and it was the cutest thing ever. It felt very supportive.
You mentioned your “tías” and you had a voicemail of your grandmother Mami Nelly on your album telling you how proud she is of you. Are you Dominican or Puerto Rican? The Caribbean delegation is looking to claim you.
Yeah, she has a thick accent. I’m Dominican and African-American. My mom is Dominican and my dad is from here. My accent comes out sometimes [Laughs.]
Your sister Sani DJ’d your show and she killed it. Is that the same sister that was freestyling about you not wanting to go to school on your album?
Yeah, it was so funny because me and my sister put the whole show together. We rehearsed for like two weeks and put everything together, and we literally did not even think about doing the freestyle song live. We didn’t even think about that. Looking back, we should’ve done it, but we were so focused on making sure everything was right. Definitely a learning experience, but it was also very fun doing the show with her.
I liked her set. She was playing U.K. garage and jungle, some Jersey Club, and mainly dance music. I know you mentioned Brent Faiyaz, Frank Ocean, Solange and SZA — these are people that you listen to a lot — but what are some other genres or artists that you also listen to and draw inspiration from?
I really like jungle music, too. My sister Sani introduced me more to like jungle music because she’s a DJ. She has such a broad taste in music. I feel like she’s kind of helped me in that aspect where she’ll play really good club tracks from forever ago, or a lot of old mixes. The thing that’s really cool about it is you can find a mix and sometimes it’s just specific to that period of time or that specific DJ, so you can’t find that same version of the song anywhere else, which is kind of cool about garage music or jungle music.
You could hear a song that you like and then hear a part of it that you’ve never heard before, and it’s only specific to that remix. I listen to jungle, I listen to a lot of Budgie. He does sample flips. He’s mad cool, and I found him on SoundCloud, but he does like stuff like that. I also listen to a lot of older ICYTWAT beats when I’m trying to get into a hype mood.
His song “Shirt” is one of the greatest songs ever. I still play some ICYTWAT’s Soundcloud remixes and mixes.
I listening to his older stuff, those are my favorite albums from him, like Fubu vs. Twat any ICYTWAT Radio.
He’ll have some ill flips too, like he’ll remake songs and s–t like that.
I love listening to all kinds of flips. Also, I just be playing my SoundCloud, it just be playing shit. Like once you play a song, it’ll keep recommending really good stuff.
Do you have any flips or remixes that you have in the stash?
I certainly do, and I used to post them on TikTok. So like, some of the real OG people that follow me, they’d be like, “Where’s this flip? Where’s the Aaliyah flip? You need to post this.” And I’m like, “Yo, the fact that they remember that is so insane because they’ve been around for a minute.” I have so many that I want to put out.
You were working the crowd and it was crazy when you started playing the keyboard. Is the piano the only instrument that you know how to play?
I would say officially, yes. When I was younger, I used to be in band like in elementary school and stuff like that. And the first instrument that I learned was the trumpet. My mom was a teacher, so they had a steel pan band. So I would like, go there and play steel pan sometimes. But then, yeah, I think piano was like the first instrument that I learned that really stuck with me. I feel like it’s the basis for everything that I produce, or everything that I make. But I’m not classically trained, and I really want to learn, so hopefully that’s something I build on in my future.
When you were on the keys and Juan was on the guitar, that was my favorite part of the whole show.
I think that was probably one of my favorite parts as well, because it was just so special. And when I was putting together the show, and thinking about what I wanted, I was like, I have to have Juan come and do “Talent Show.” We made this song together, and it’s so special to me. And to hear people singing along was even more insane for me.
The show felt like a New York show before the pandemic. There used to be shows with that energy all the time in the city. It was interesting to experience. You and Cash Cobain have NYC on lock right now. The city is behind you guys.
Yeah, I love that. That’s so sweet. That’s all I ever wanted to do. Whenever I talked to my team about doing a show, ,all I wanted was it for just to feel like good vibes, comfortable, just very familial so everyone could enjoy themselves in a good environment. That’s all I’ve ever wanted. So I’m glad that it felt that way.
So, you taught yourself how to play the piano and the keyboard. What do you use when you make beats? Any programs or drum pads?
More often than not, I’m actually just using the keys on the keyboard because it’s easy and it’s simple for me, but then a lot of times I also just use my MIDI keyboard that I could just put into my computer, and then I’ll just play like that. And yeah, it has beat pads on it too, which is cool, because you can do fun little stuff there. If I wanna play the drums, and maybe don’t wanna use the keyboard, I can use that.
Do use a program like Fruity Loops or something?
I use GarageBand, it’s very helpful. There’s so much good stuff on there that I feel people tend to overlook.
You know when you’re young and growing up, you don’t always know what your parents do for a living. Were you always musically inclined, like even before you knew what your father did for a living?
Yeah, it was just always a part of me. My mom has videos of me just singing and doing all this stuff, and I was like, a little, little kid. I wasn’t at the age where I knew what my dad did. The moment I could form words, I think I was singing and dancing and doing all that stuff. I don’t know a life without music, or making music.
When did it really click for you, though, where you wanted to take music seriously? Angela Yee mentioned in an interview with that you were in Puerto Rico freestyling with your father and Jay Electronica, when you were really young — which, I wish there was audio or a video of this. I wanna hear this freestyle.
I feel like my mom probably has a video [laughs]. I think it wasn’t until my sophomore year of high school. I always wanted to make music and have that be my career. That was always my plan. I was like, ‘I’m gonna get out of school and then I’m gonna start making music and, you know, whatever.’ But I was always so shy and so nervous about it, and I just didn’t really know what I was doing. So, at certain point I had to stop being so afraid and follow my passion do what it is that I feel like I love to do the most. I put out my first song, and that’s kind of where it all began.
So this was when you’re 16, right? When you made “Like That.” Do you feel like you’ve gotten better since then already?
I think I’ve definitely gotten a lot better. I don’t know how to explain it, but once you make something, you’ve sat with the feelings, you felt the way that you felt, you’ve written the lyrics, and then once you release it and it’s out there, it’s kind of like, OK, I don’t necessarily have those same feelings or I’m not the same person. It’s almost like a release. You know what I mean? I don’t know. So I feel like, when I look back at “Like That,” it was a period of time in my life, but now I’m moving on, and I’m growing up, and with everything that I make, it feels like I’m growing up a little bit more.
So yeah, I think that the stuff that I’m making now versus “Like That,” I think it it shows my growth in that sense, even just as a person, maybe not so much like sonically, maybe it doesn’t sound a million times different, but as a person, I feel different.
I definitely get what you’re saying. You blew up so fast and I’m curious about how old some of the songs are on Gap Year!
Yeah, that’s actually such a good question, because Gap Year! is basically just a compilation of the stuff that I made from the time I was, like, 16 until now. So a lot of the songs on there are actually older. “If You’re Listening,” I recorded that when I was 16. “We’re So Over,” too. But then I made “Want To” around four months before we dropped the album. I made the beat for “Are You Down?” maybe when I just turned 16. That was one of the first beats that I made where I was like, “Yo, I’m kind of good. Maybe I’m nice at this like, maybe I could really make beats.” I made the “Like That” beat when I was 15, and didn’t record on it until about a year later. It was a blend of the journey that I’ve taken with music and learning how to make beats.
You mentioned feeling anxious when you go on stage. Do you feel any pressure right now?
Yeah, sometimes. I feel like I always feel pressure, though. I’ve always felt pressure even before I had put out a song, even before people followed me, or anything like that. I always felt pressure because… I don’t know, sometimes pressure can be bad, but sometimes it also can feel like I wanna get this done, I wanna execute an idea I have, or whatever. And when I say pressure, it’s not like pressure from my family or pressure from external people, because I always have so much love and support around me, which I’m so grateful and thankful for. Everybody’s always just trying to make sure I’m good or whatever, just whatever I need. They’re always there for me. I’m just really grateful about that. But I think the pressure kind of comes from within. I want to make sure I’m doing everything to the fullest capability. I’m just always trying to be better than I was before.
This is a complicated question, but how would you describe your sound?
I think I really would describe my sound as fresh and fly and cool, but also nostalgic, I pull from so many things that I love. I have such a love for R&B and writing. I always think so melodically. And a lot of that comes from my biggest inspirations, and I kind of take the bits and pieces that I can.
I feel like an important thing about music and even human life, is that we learn through imitating. We see something we like, and we try to become that. For me as a producer, it’s been really interesting being able to take like, ‘Okay, I like this progression, or I like the way that this bassline sounds, or I like the way that the snare hits here on this song. And you take those little bits and pieces and almost transform that into something that’s completely different by studying things that I really like, whether it’s The Neptunes or an Aaliyah song or whatever, or a Darkchild beat. I’ll sit there and I’ll listen to things that really make that specific song click for me. Nostalgic, but fresh is how I would describe my music.
Yeah, it’s like an amalgamation of all these things. It’s like retro and futuristic at the same time.
Thank you. That’s what I’m going for.
Your On the Radar performance made me look into you more — and and then obviously when people figured out who your father was, everyone’s minds were blown.
Yeah, it was very funny how it kind of just built up and people started. None of this has been planned. The only thing that was planned was to do something cool like On the Radar. The whole objective was to get my face out there. I wanted people to get a sense of who I am or what I do.
As it was going viral, were you like, “Yo, I have to put my name on this somehow?”
I just wanted people to be able to connect the song with who I am, like, as an artist, because I feel like, I don’t know, nowadays, it’s so easy for the artists to get lost in the shuffle when something gets really popular. So, I just kind of wanted to do something. And I did the From the Block, which was really cool. That was just an awesome experience. Doing that like at the playground was mad fun. But yeah, I wanted to do stuff that people could be like, “OK, this is her, this is her face. This is what she’s doing.” It was such a cool moment for me, aand I did not anticipate how crazy it was gonna go at all. And then even the whole thing with my dad, I couldn’t have anticipated that would happen. That was the Internet.
So, you wanted to be a rapper first, right?
Yes. When I was a little kid, I used to always love singing songs and always write songs. But I really used to freestyle. I had a whole thing, I had a little swag. I was probably, like, nine or or 10, but I used to write all these raps, and I used to go to school, and I used to show all my friends. It was my thing.
And I remember I had this one teacher, and I was like, “I guess we were talking about our future?” This was in middle school, so I must have been like, 11 or 12, and they were like, “What do you want your career to be?” And I was like, “I’m going to be a rapper.” And the teacher was like, “Sure.” That always stuck with me — because what do you mean, “Sure?” Like, you really don’t think that I could do this? From that day on, I was like, “You know what? This is exactly why I’m going to do whatever the f–k I want to do.” And I was like, 11, but I was like, “No” — because what do you mean, “Sure?” Like, I know, I know I could do this.
Did you have a rap name?
I never had a rap name. I was just writing raps. Like, I wasn’t rap name. Even now, sometimes I’m like, damn, should I have come up with an artist name or something cool, but I just couldn’t think of one. I literally just couldn’t think of one. That’s why I put the exclamation point, because there was too many other Lailas and I just couldn’t think of anything else.
Now that the the album is out, are you going to produce for other artists? I know one of your dreams is to produce for artists that you like. Send some beat packs out.
Absolutely. That’s what I’m working towards now. I really want to be able to work with other artists that I admire, but I really love working with artists in person, like I like to show, like, I don’t know. I like to see how people feel about what they’re listening to. I prefer to show people what I’ve been working on when I’m with them. Let’s actually connect. And feel the music together.
BOYNEXTDOOR‘s latest single, “Nice Guy,” begins with the K-pop group crooning, “Don’t be such a wuss, Seoul is mine tonight/ Let’s rizz up all night” for a synth-pop anthem of declarative self-confidence. While it seems like a stark contrast from “Dangerous,” the rebellious pre-released buzz single about teens pushing curfew which kicked off the group’s 19.99 album, it all connects into BOYNEXTDOOR’s multifaceted world of limitless freedom and friendliness.
With less than a year and a half since their debut, Billboard’s K-Pop Rookie of the Month for October 2024 is seeing its message reaching audiences worldwide. 19.99 scored BOYNEXTDOOR’s first No. 1 on Billboard’s World Albums chart and top 40 entry on the Billboard 200, while the group has performed on festival stages in South Korea, Spain, Japan, Hong Kong, and the United States. The sextet has modeled for Korea’s most prominent brand, Samsung, but is also the face of Japan’s popular casual clothing brand, WEGO, and has competed for best new artist recognitions at the MAMA Awards, iHeartRadio Music Awards, Asian Pop Music Awards and beyond.
During a weekend morning interview and photoshoot with Billboard in Seoul, any understandable tiredness from BND takes a back seat as members Jaehyun, Sungho, Taesan, Riwoo, Leehan, and Woonhak excitedly emphasize their desire to connect with audiences through authenticity rather than just chart placements and awards. “Rankings aren’t everything,” Taesan says in the Zoom call. “Our priority is really talking about what we want to and conveying that to the audience in a very free kind of way. So, that’s what we try to do and I’m happy that is actually connecting with a lot of people out there. It makes us really proud.”
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Those themes are present in the narrative structure of 19.99, which is grounded in the guys’ real-life experiences. Without fixed roles within the group, BOYNEXTDOOR pride themselves on a collective creativity, where members can contribute across different areas like music, storytelling, choreography, stage direction and more. While half the group is credited as lyricists, and Riwoo added personal touches to their new choreographies, 19.99 has the DNA of all six stars divided throughout the EP.
That philosophy of artistic expression and prioritizing personal experiences and creativity over external pressures feels like a founding block of BOYNEXTDOOR’s label KOZ Entertainment, founded by boy band member-turned-chart-topping soloist-producer ZICO, that’s housed in the HYBE LABELS system. While ZICO has been a presence on the Billboard charts for over a decade (earning his first No. 1 on a U.S. sales chart earlier this year), BOYNEXTDOOR says his mentorship and tips have been crucial to the group’s impressive and quick takeoff.
“He always told us that you have to have a really good attitude and be cautious of how people would see you,” eldest member Sungho says of their mentor. “He always cared so much for us and gave us a lot of advice even before we debuted.”
With BOYNEXTDOOR’s first tour on the horizon and a growing global fanbase awaiting the group’s next steps, the “Nice Guy” singers remain ambitious to make Seoul — and every other city — their own by doing it their way. Read more on BOYNEXTDOOR’s story as the next group to watch as Billboard’s K-Pop Rookie of the Month for October 2024.
Congratulations on the latest chart success with 19.99, BOYNEXTDOOR! Do you feel the impact and that you’re growing your audience overseas?
TAESAN: Yes, we feel like more and more people are starting to like and enjoy our music, which we are very happy about. But you know, grades and rankings aren’t everything; grades aren’t our priority. Our priority is really talking about what we want to convey to the audience in a very free kind of way. So, that’s what we try to do and I’m happy that is actually connecting with a lot of people out there. It makes us really proud and gives us the confidence to stride forward.
19.99 starts a very different musical chapter from your previous trilogy of EPs. What are some of the differences between your past releases and this project?
SUNGHO: So, I think the “First Love” trilogy [the Who!, Why.., and How? EPs] was a big narrative that we had and tried to follow. When we were recording, creating and on stage, we tried to follow the overall kind of narrative and scenario that we had for the trilogy. But after that, with 19.99, rather than going with a narrative, this was an album where we really infused our experiences and the members’ stories. What we experience in our daily lives and what we go through is really infused in the tracks.
So, when we were recording or on stage, we felt like we were speaking our own language and just talking about what we experienced as boys. Even when we were performing, I think we focus more on our individual style and vibes… it’s more grounded and more heartfelt this time around. We paid more attention this time.
How do you express your stories? Is it sharing your experiences with each other? Writing lyrics? The concepts? Performing on stage?
JAEHYUN: I think my answer to that is really all of the above. It really starts at the very beginning of the creative process: we discuss a lot about what we want to talk about in the songs and in the album, so I think that naturally infuses into the songs — both in the songwriting and performance. So, we would talk a lot with the performance director and the music producers so that we could add our input into the lyrics and the overall concept of the performance as well. So, yeah, I think it’s all parts of what you brought up.
I see BOYNEXTDOOR as having a lot of freedom. There are no fixed positions within the team. Does that freedom allow you to be more creative, or is it difficult to balance that in a group dynamic?
TAESAN: As JAEHUYN said earlier, we are very heavily involved in the creative process; we have a big say. And as you said, we have a lot of freedom. Instead of thinking of that as a stress factor, we enjoy it because it gives us the freedom to be more creative and I think we’re even more eager to participate more in the creative process. So, rather than finding it difficult, I think it’s our fate to make these stages.
Even from your teaser videos, “friendliness” feels like a keyword for BOYNEXTDOOR. On one hand, artists who are so friendly can come off as less mysterious and intriguing. Do you have ideas or methods for bridging that gap?
JAEHYUN: I guess the secret lies in our music. So while we are friendly as people, our music can be mysterious; people can always wonder what’s coming next. You said that the name BOYNEXTDOOR is a very “friendly” name, but you never know who’s living next door. That boy might be a hip-hop lover, that boy might be a rock lover or love ballads. So, I think there is an air of mystery to that name as well. So, we kind of have both.
You deserve a lot of credit because not many rookies can say that and it feels like you’re sharing even more on 19.99. Can you share more about the title and what the EP represents?
WOONHAK: The six of us talked about what kind of album we wanted to make and what kind of music we wanted to do…
TAESAN: The producer asked us to talk about how we felt about our 20s one by one — [asking] “What was it like for you?” or “What do you expect from turning 20?” — and we gradually came up with the theme. After we came up with the theme of the number “20,” we discussed what kind of stories each of us wanted to incorporate into the album. JAEHYUN, WOONHAK and I actually wrote the lyrics based on that. We tried to capture 20 as much as possible in our own way.
When it comes to 20, the youngest member of BOYNEXTDOOR, WOONHAK, will soon be turning 20. Have your members shared any advice for you?
WOONHAK: So, instead of giving me advice directly in words, I think I just learned from them vicariously and naturally. Seeing them, I can understand that there are certain things that people don’t see or understand because I’m underage, you know? They recognize when I tell them I’m facing certain challenges and say, “That’s okay.” But when I do turn 20, there will be more responsibilities as an adult — and I see that through our leader JAEHUYN, our oldest SUNGHO, RIWOO, as well as TAESAN and LEEHAN. So, I think I kind of learn by looking at how they behave and take on different tasks. They continue to teach me a lot.
Along with JAEHYUN, TAESAN, and WOONHAK’s songwriting, how do you all collaborate creatively?
JAEHYUN: Although there are just three of us in the album credits, I think it really should be the six of us together because we talk a lot amongst ourselves and are sources of inspiration to each other. So, we would talk to other members and gain insight from their experiences and stories. So, all six of us are actually involved in the creative process.
SUNGHO: While JAEHYUN, TAESAN and WOONHAK are involved in the songwriting, in terms of the stage, RIWOO is really involved a lot in terms of the stage; when we actually go perform, he can lead the crowd. When we need to rehearse, we practice together under RIWOO’s guidance. He even creates and organizes the setlist and has a lot of input and ideas about the setlist. RIWOO is the one who has the most to say about our performances; each of us has such different personalities and individual styles, but RIWOO is the one who kind of becomes the anchor to help us combine and blend together as a group.
RIWOO: When we learn the choreography for the first time from choreographers, we usually learn choreography that is almost complete, but I feel like we have to include our own style into it and tweak it a little bit to make sure that it really fits our own style and not the choreographer’s style. From facial expressions to gestures and movements, I personally think about it a lot. If our members want to express something, I want to make sure we can express it and edit it a little so that it’s more BOYNEXTDOOR and our style.
Talking about stage performances, you recently announced your KNOCK ON Vol.1 tour. What are you preparing for your first tour? Do you think you’ll have more “volumes” or dates beyond Asia?
JAEHYUN: Our first concert is in the planning process, but there are a lot of stages and performances that we’ve saved for the concert. The stages that you’ve wanted to see and the performances that you wanted us to do, we’ve been saving them all to show you at our first concert so I think there will be a lot of stages that our fans, ONEDOOR, will really like.
LEEHAN: We’ll go anywhere. We’re willing to fly to anywhere where ONEDOOR exists. And we hope there are many more opportunities going forward to share these great times with ONEDOOR.
Do you have any worries ahead of the tour?
TAESAN: There will inevitably be some challenges because it’s our first concert and first tour, but I think we need to focus on how to overcome those difficulties. But I think what’s always on our mind is our next step forward — what we’re going to talk about in our next album.
I recently met with ZICO, and he spoke so affectionately about you. Do you notice that affection or is this his everyday self? Any fun stories you can share about your time with him?
SUNGHO: We actually noticed his affection ever since when we were trainees. He was always very worried about us. He always cared so much for us and gave us a lot of advice. Even before we debuted and after our debut, when we became “professionals,” he always told us that you always have to have a really good attitude and be cautious of how people see you. But the difference between the days when we just debuted and now is that in the early rookie days, he would try to really help and assist us in all kinds of ways. But now I think he really respects us as professionals and that we have our own way of communication and style. And then when he thinks we need help or if there are parts where he can help us, he will kind of jump in. I don’t really remember any specific anecdotes to share…
WOONHAK: I actually do remember one! He said, “I regret taking really bad selfies.” [All laugh.] So, we should really make sure that we take nice selfies.
JAEHYUN: My father! There are so many funny moments. Recently, ZICO has been telling me to show him some aegyo, like doing something cute or adorable, because he said that JAEHYUN as a trainee and JAEHYUN as a member of an idol group is really different. So, he wants me to show him those aegyo moments like I do with ONEDOOR, but for him. So, he’ll kind of tease me, telling me, “Can you show me some aegyo?!?” [Laughs.]
Any other messages you want to share with international fans or Billboard readers at this time?
JAEHYUN: Thank you for loving our tracks. I’m happy to see our songs on the Billboard charts and I hope you all keep loving them.
TAESAN: Please stay tuned for our tour and our concert. I hope that we’ll have more opportunities to go to other continents and other countries as well!
WOONHAK: Love you!!!
On singer-songwriter Julie Williams’ new five-song EP Tennessee Moon (out Oct. 17) the Florida native draws listeners into songs that evince all the facets of who she is, both as a person and as an artist, intertwining elements of folk, ‘90s country, and pop with her soothing vocal.
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“Music was always in our household in every single car ride, my mom and I listened to ‘90s country women like The Chicks and a lot of folk too, indigo Girls, John Denver, Dan Fogelberg, that was the soundtrack to my mom’s car,” Williams tells Billboard. “And my dad played a lot of Michael Jackson, Prince, the Temptations. So there was music constantly.”
In elementary school, Williams became involved with music programs, then singing and performing at church. By middle school, Williams was singing the national anthem prior to Tampa Bay Rays baseball games. A friend from church who played guitar began giving Williams guitar lessons and eventually they formed an acoustic music duo and playing at bars around Tampa Bay.
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Williams’ aspirations have always centered around making a difference in the lives of others, and to that goal, she studied public policy at Duke University, but was also still drawn to music. She signed to Small Town Records at one point, and continued writing songs more regularly, pouring out songs of elegance, vivid detail and forthright honesty.
In 2019, shortly after graduating, she chased her musical aspirations to Nashville. Williams, a proudly mixed-race, queer singer-songwriter, found her musical breakthrough when she wrote “Southern Curls,” detailing her experience of growing up in the South, but with, as she sings, “the wrong kind of Southern curls.” The sharply-written, exquisitely-sung track also delves into forging her own path in her early days in Nashville, with the lines, “Twenty-three in Music City with dreams and high heeled boots/ Singin’ for a crowd of blue eyes/ Will they want me too?”
“That’s when it felt like, ‘Oh, I’ve tapped into who I am as an artist and the type of songwriter I want to be,’” Williams says.
She continued writing and performing songs, resulting in her 2023 self-titled EP. Meanwhile her music and artistry caught the attention of The Black Opry, as well as CMT. She was named a member of CMT’s Next Women of Country class in 2023, and was part of the CMT and mTheory Equal Access program.
Her keen artistic mission further evolves on her new five-song EP. Williams is a writer on every track, working with writers including Melody Walker and Natalie Closner. She looks back on the last moments of a relationship in “Tennessee Moon,” while “Reckless Road” meshes banjo, pedal steel and acoustic guitar, evoking the timeless feel of ‘90s country songs.
“I know it’s not going to be an easy road,” Williams says of her journey as an artist. “Every single day is a grind and a step. But for me, if I’m moving in an authentic way and I know that I have people around me that love me, I don’t care. I just love it so much. I’m just going to keep doing it for as long as I can.”
She just launched her Tennessee Moon Tour, which runs through November. Billboard spoke with Williams about her inspirations, career journey, her new EP, her work with the Black Opry and more.
What is one album you could play forever and never get tired of playing?
Eva Cassidy was one of my first musical influences and my dad used to play [Cassidy’s versions of] “Autumn Leaves” and “I Know You By Heart.” Her album Songbird is one I listen to, and it feels like my Dad is with me.
Who would be your Mount Rushmore of country music?
The Chicks, 100 percent. I remember when they got kicked out of country music radio and I was so mad. I remember in my fourth grade class, we had to write a speech. I wrote about how mad I was at the president [then-president George W. Bush] because he got my favorite band kicked off the radio. And then Sara Evans, I loved “Born to Fly,” and all of the late ‘90s, early 2000’s country.
What inspired the title track to Tennessee Moon?
I went to Percy Priest Lake [in Nashville] with a former partner, and I took this photo of them under the sunset, as the daylight was fading away. I could just tell that the relationship was fading, but I wanted to capture it and hold onto what it felt like in this golden era. Something about sunsets, as beautiful as they are, you can’t quite capture them. I think there’s beauty in how fleeting it is — and there are people in our lives aren’t necessarily meant to stay, but we just appreciate them when we have them.
One of your frequent collaborators on this project is Melody Walker. How did the two of you connect as musicians?
I believe we met at a Song Suffragettes show. I was a big fan of the music she was making and we sat down to write and came to her with that photo that inspired “Tennessee Moon.” I just said, “I want a song that feels like this picture.” Within two or three hours we had the whole song and we just keep coming back to each other because if we really do have that writing chemistry, I think we push each other in some ways. I can sometimes get so lost in lyrics and verses — if I could just write verses for the rest of my life. She’s like, “Okay, what’s our hook? What’s our big moment?” We work well together and it’s great to have people in Nashville that you feel a hundred percent comfortable to be yourself around.
Another song on the album, “Just Friends?,” also highlights part of your journey as a queer woman. How did that song come about?
I was playing shows with an artist called Denitia, and she has a song that’s called “Old Friend.” And I was hearing her play this song night after night about looking back at an old friendship, and it made me think of some friendships in my past and one in particular. I just was wondering why I am not close with that person anymore and why looking back at it, I felt so much pain and regret, almost felt like it was a breakup. I look back now, and realize, “I think I had feelings for that person,” but I didn’t even know at that time.
That was just such a powerful time to write this song that touches on that confusion of young love, of friendship, female friendship, especially for queer women, kind of discovering who it is that you love — it can be a confusing process at first. I grew up with very, very liberal, accepting parents and I still felt confused. So, I wanted a song that would capture that and I wanted to give myself a little bit of grace, too. I was very lucky that my queer journey, it wasn’t a sad one. I was very lucky that when I told my family they were accepting and my friends as well, but it still was something that took that time. So, I wanted to show the beauty in that journey, too.
What was your journey like in finding community as an artist in Nashville?
I didn’t find that community when I first moved to Nashville, but also because I don’t think I really knew myself too much then. I still was straightening my hair. I found this picture of the first Whiskey Jam [concert] I was playing, and I used to spend hours straightening my hair just to then curl it into those big, southern curls. I was like, “Why am I straightening and curling my hair again just to get a different curl pattern, because I think this is what people want to see?”
I moved here and I was in a long-term partnership that I thought this was going to be the person that I was with for the rest of my life, and I didn’t think I’d ever have a chance to explore my queer identity and I didn’t really know myself. Writing songs like “Southern Curls” and getting connected with organizations like Song Suffragettes and the Black Opry, I met some of my favorite people that I work with and my favorite collaborators.
How has the Black Opry been instrumental in your career?
I met [Black Opry founder/leader] Holly G and a number of the Black Opry folks, and just sat with them in a hotel room and passed around a guitar and played songs. I told Holly at that moment, “I will play whatever show you have. It could be in a dumpster and I’ll be there.” I was really wondering if I was going to stay in Nashville. I had gone and visited friends in New York and DC and was like, “I think I’m going to go back into the policy world. I don’t know if this is going to work out over here.”
Right after that was when I first went on my first Black Opry tour, and it really changed everything. I started playing with Black Opry and then realizing that there were opportunities outside of Nashville, that there were venues and places that wanted to be a part of what Black Opry was building.
How did you build upon those shows you played with the Black Opry?
I would just reach out to [those venues] as an individual — this is before I had an agent. I would just reach out and say, “Hey, I saw you booked Black Opry this time. I’m a Black Opry artist. I would love to come and play.” And so I started booking myself and doing my own tour. That’s when [management company] Prater Day saw what I was doing and wanted to jump in, too.
The past few years, I’ve played over 120 shows and I think it’s 26 states now and a few countries. And I think that once again touches on that magic that I had found when I first started playing. But now I get to feel that all around the country and the world and meet new people. And so, I think my career is now growing because of my time on the road and the road will continue to have a huge part in my story.
You are also an activist and in 2023 launched Green Room Conversations, to raise awareness of sexual harassment in the music industry, and to offer a safe space for women to discuss navigating the industry. Why has that been so important for you?
I wanted to start that organization, just being a touring musician and just a woman in this industry. I’ve had my own share of stories, and I think you could throw a rock and ask somebody to share a story that they have had in the music industry. I wanted to empower people with those little frank lessons that can help save people from a lot of uncomfortable situations. I remember when I first met [singer-songwriter-radio host] Rissi Palmer in a little café in North Carolina, it was just before I moved to Nashville. I remember asking if she had any advice for me and she said, “Do not take a business meeting with a man past 6:00 p.m.. That’s not a business meeting; that’s a date. If he wants to work with you, you can get coffee the next day.”
I think music is an industry, where at least for artists, there is no HR [department]. It’s an industry where show are late at night, that often involve alcohol. You could be in a position where you have to share a hotel with a co-worker because there’s not enough money to get everybody solo hotel rooms. Or you’re writing a song about sex and love, but that doesn’t mean you want to sleep with your coworker.
We come into this industry with so many hopes and dreams and we tell people to say yes to every opportunity because that could be your next break. We’ve been going to different colleges, talking with music business students. We’re just saying those frank things that women have been saying in green rooms forever, like, ‘Watch out for this guy,’ or ‘This person who you think holds so much power over you in your career, you don’t have to work with them.’ Sometimes you need that permission to say no and know that it’s not going to destroy your career. And in fact, there’s people out here that can support you.
What book or podcast are you into right now?
One that I’m reading right now that I’m really liking is called Our Wives Under the Sea by Julia Armfield. It’s a little weird, but I love it. It’s so cool. I’ve just been just diving in.