Rock

Peter Hook says news of Joy Division/New Order‘s joint nomination for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame “made me smile all day” after he learned the news on Tuesday (Jan. 31). It also made him chuckle a little too.
“To be honest with you, we were always against this sort of thing when we started,” the two groups’ founding bassist tells Billboard via Zoom from his home in England. “It was the old punk thing — we hope we die before we get old and destroy all the old musicians, etc. etc. and what rubbish awards ceremonies are. Then all of a sudden you get one, and as you get older you realize… yeah, it’s a wonderful thing. I’m humbled, I really am. It’s nice, and it’s fun to be appreciated.”

The groups were named on Tuesday as part of a class of nominees that also includes Kate Bush, Sheryl Crow, Missy Elliott, Iron Maiden, Soundgarden, Cyndi Lauper, George Michael, Willie Nelson, Rage Against the Machine, The Spinners, A Tribe Called Quest, The White Stripes and Warren Zevon.

And, he adds, “I will be rooting for us. Ever since we started as Warsaw, I’ve always felt great competition towards other bands. You want to do better than them, you want to achieve something. So this really appeals to me.”

The nomination marks the first inclusion on the ballot for either band. Joy Division has been eligible since 2004 and New Order — formed by Hook, Bernard Sumner and Stephen Morris (with Gillian Gilbert) after Joy Division singer Ian Curtis’ suicide in 1980 — since 2006. It’s not the first time the Rock Hall has put two bands together as a unit; the Small Face and Faces were inducted jointly back in 2012.  And Hook feels that the commonality between Joy Division and New Order makes their pairing both acceptable and appropriate. 

“It feels OK to me,” he explains. “It was an odd thing. Joy Division was such a wonderful, powerful entity, and it was so sad the way it ended. But the three of us — Bernie, Stephen and I — got real strength from starting New Order together. We started (Joy Division) after seeing the Sex Pistols, and we’ve been banging our heads against walls and doors and kicking them down musically since then. We were always the square peg in a round hole as Joy Division and very much a square peg in a round hole as New Order. (The Rock Hall) is a hell of an accolade, but my God, I think either band has earned it. We are definitely up there without a shadow of a doubt.”

The potential of a Joy Division/New Order induction does come with the specter of some possible drama. Hook — who’s written two memoirs about his life and in outside of music — has been at odds with Sumner, Morris and Gilbert since 2011, when New Order reformed without him after a four-year hiatus. The resulting lawsuit was settled out of court, but Hook says the musicians “still haven’t spoken, personally in 11 years. We’re still fighting hammer and tong, tooth and nail… I think we’re going for the record for the longest group fallout in history. It’s very tragic.”

But he’s hopeful that, if inducted, all parties will put aside their differences at least for one night. 

“It will be a difficult awards ceremony if we get there, but as my wife said we’ve got to rise above these things… and be nice and be courteous and think the best,” Hook says. “Maybe this is the olive branch that we may need to end the injustices that were done with New Order in the end. It’s a very strange position to be in but, y’know, we’re not the first group that’s been ostracized by each other, and we won’t be the last.”

Since the schism New Order has released two studio albums along with several live sets and the 2020 single “Be a Rebel.” On Jan. 27 the box set Low-Life was released, compiling New Order 12-inch singles and filmed live performances. The group will play a set of shows in Texas during March, including an appearance at South By Southwest.

For more than a decade, meanwhile, Hook has led his band, The Light, in performing Joy Division and New Order albums in their entireties. He returns to the road in March for The World is a Vampire Festival in Mexico and starts a U.K. tour in April, playing both of Joy Division’s studio albums (Unknown Pleasures and Closer), a variety of New Order songs and the Substance compilations from both bands. 

“It’s all about music,” says Hook, who launched a music business master’s degree program at the University of Central Lancashire in England during 2012. “The reason it’s OK to be playing Joy Division was the fact I thought it needed celebrating more, and for me not to celebrate it I felt was wrong. So it’s been wonderful to do and it’s been wonderful to keep on celebrating New Order music, and probably I will be doing it until I die — and beyond.”

Soundgarden‘s Kim Thayil was caught unawares when he learned about the band’s second Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nomination on Tuesday (Jan. 31).
“It was not no my radar,” Thayil, who co-founded the group during 1984 in Seattle, tells Billboard. “I hadn’t been thinking about it, so it’s a very pleasant surprise. Very cool.”

The nod comes three years after Soundgarden’s first nomination, in 2020, and Thayil says that taught him — along with surviving bandmates drummer Matt Cameron and bassist Ben Shepherd — about the regard and relevance the band enjoys nearly four years after it ended in the wake of frontman Chris Cornell‘s suicide following a concert in Detroit.

“What was cool about (2020) was just the recognition of the acknowledgement,” Thayil explains. “If you’re involved with your bandmates and fellow musicians in your peer group, you can sometimes get isolated from the general historical context of how the band has evolved and became part of the broader community of music and musicians. So I think that acknowledgement and that recognition was a reminder that, hey, they work that you did with your partners was part of a continuity and a history of music. That’s kind of cool.”

Thayil adds that it was Cornell who helped Soundgarden get some appreciation of the Rock Hall after he inducted Seattle rock precursors Heart in 2013. “He lived the experience and said the enthusiasm of the fans was eye-opening for him, and understanding how important that was… And Matt seconded it. And I think that’s always been a context in which Soundgarden would understand its work; we always wanted to be the kind of band for our fans that we looked up to and inspired us. We wanted to be that kind of band would make decisions with regard to that community that had supported us or that we had worked to build, and I think we did a great job of that.”

Soundgarden were named on Tuesday as part of a class of nominees that also includes Kate Bush, Sheryl Crow, Missy Elliott, Iron Maiden, JoyDivision/New Order, Cyndi Lauper, George Michael, Willie Nelson, Rage Against the Machine, The Spinners, A Tribe Called Quest, The White Stripes and Warren Zevon.

During its 34-year run, Soundgarden released six studio albums, including the six-times platinum Superunknown in 1994, and won two Grammy Awards. The group was the first of the Northwest grunge bands to sign with a major label (A&M Records in 1989) and spearheaded a movement out of Seattle that also included Rock Hall inductees Nirvana and Pearl Jam. The late Cornell also released five solo studio albums and joined members of Rage Against the Machine in the band Audioslave during Soundgarden’s 1997-2010 hiatus.

A Soundgarden induction this fall could be tricky, though. Cornell’s widow, Vicky Cornell, has two pending lawsuits against the band. One is over seven unreleased recordings Cornell worked on before his death that she claims belonged to him and not the band and another charges that the surviving members have undervalued the estate’s share in the band in a buyout offer and was withholding money that was owed. Soundgarden has denied the allegations. 

If voted in, can everyone put aside the differences?

“I think our interest and dedication is to that work and that legacy, and that would involve honoring our beloved partner and his legacy as well,” Thayil says. “I think this (nomination) is part of the recognition of our work, of our career and of the material we produced. And I think the band wants to continue and has always wanted to continue with attending to that legacy, and that’s the way we can honor Soundgarden and honor Chris.”

Thayil, Cameron (who’s part of Pearl Jam) and Shepherd did reunite to play a pair of songs at the Taylor Hawkins Tribute Concert last September in Los Angeles. “It was an unusual experience to feel that combination of sadness and reverence and enthusiasm. It’s really odd,” Thayil recalls. “It’s always great to play with Ben and Matt, and it’s great to play the material that we worked on and recorded and promote… and to address the legacy with our work and to honor the band and Chris.”

On his own, Thayil is continuing to work with 3rd Secret, a band that includes Cameron, Nirvana bassist Krist Novoselic and others; he says the group was recently “in the studio doing a little bit of writing and recording. I think that’ll kid of continue as long as that’s fun for us and rewarding, and it has been. It’s the same sort of situation — someone has ideas, ‘Hey Kim, Matt, come here. I want to show you my song. What do you think of it? Do you want to play it? Do you have any ideas?’ — just the way Soundgarden was like, really.”