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The early numbers are in for Taylor Swift‘s Midnights, and while it was safe to assume her 10th studio album would be a hit, fans might not have predicted just how big it could be.

According to initial reports to Luminate on Monday, the album earned more than 1.2 million equivalent album units in the U.S. in its first three days alone. With that news, Midnights has the biggest week for an album, by units, since Swift’s own reputation in 2017 and is already the year’s top-selling album, year to date.

On the new Billboard Pop Shop Podcast, Katie & Keith discuss all the circumstances that allowed Swift to reach that elusive million mark again, from the curiosity surrounding the album and the awareness campaign that included a prominent Thursday Night Football teaser to the positive word-of-mouth from early listeners and dozens of collectible (and clock-building) variations.

Listen below to hear all about it:

Also on the show, we’ve got chart news on how Sam Smith and Kim Petras hit No. 1 on the Billboard Hot 100 songs chart with “Unholy” — the first chart-topper for both acts — and how Lil Baby captures his third No. 1 album on the Billboard 200 with “It’s Only Me.” Plus, listen to the show for even more early numbers from Swift’s blockbuster album-release week.

The Billboard Pop Shop Podcast is your one-stop shop for all things pop on Billboard‘s weekly charts. You can always count on a lively discussion about the latest pop news, fun chart stats and stories, new music, and guest interviews with music stars and folks from the world of pop. Casual pop fans and chart junkies can hear Billboard‘s executive digital director, West Coast, Katie Atkinson and Billboard‘s senior director of charts Keith Caulfield every week on the podcast, which can be streamed on Billboard.com or downloaded in Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast provider. (Click here to listen to the previous edition of the show on Billboard.com.)

Through three albums of guitar-driven, melodic ear candy, Soccer Mommy has reveled in the sounds of ‘90s indie rock. So it was no surprise the band was chosen to perform at Pavements 1933 to 2022, the indie rock legend Pavement‘s pop-up museum in New York City that ran from Sept. 29 to Oct. 2 and will be displayed permanently in the band’s hometown of Stockton, California. 

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“It was really fun,” Sophie Allison, a.k.a. Soccer Mommy, tells Billboard’s Behind the Setlist podcast. “I mean, it was it was something that we were dying to do, honestly, because me and all the people in my live band love Pavement.” Allison and her band covered three songs at the Oct. 1 performance: “Here,” “Gold Soundz” and “Spit on a Stranger.”  

Although many Soccer Mommy fans weren’t born when Pavement broke up in 1999, the song “Here,” from Pavement’s 1992 album Slanted and Enchanted, got a good reaction at the Glasgow, Scotland, concert that concluded the European tour in support of Soccer Mommy’s latest album, the critically acclaimed Sometimes, Forever. “I said I was gonna play a Pavement song and everyone was really excited,” says Allison of the audience’s reaction. The band reunited in 2010 and again in 2022 for U.S. and European tours. “I think that people from my audience do really like [Pavement]. I think they’re specifically really a band that has had this huge renaissance like 20 years after [breaking up]. Even when I was in high school, everybody loved Pavement.” 

Earlier this year, Allison branched out into podcasts when Soccer Mommy scored the music for We Were Three, a podcast series by the New York Times and Serial Productions. “I’ve always been really interested in in the idea of getting to score something but I’m usually so focused either with touring or, you know, writing new songs for a record and recording,” says Allison. Finding herself with free time this summer, Allison says she enjoyed the process of writing music intended for background accompaniment – featuring guitar, bass, drums and synthesizer – to the spoken word rather than her own lyrics. “It was really fun getting to write music that I didn’t then have to write a chorus for and lyrics and a hook.”  

Now home in Nashville after performing more than 50 concerts in 2022, Allison is working on material for the follow-up to Sometimes, Forever. “I don’t have anything done. But I just want to keep keep working on new songs. If anything else comes up that’s exciting, I’ll definitely try to do it. But in the meantime, [I’m focused on] just touring and working on writing new songs.” 

You can listen to the entire interview with Soccer Mommy at Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Amazon Music, Audible or Stitcher. 

“We went through a bit of a rough time,” 311 singer and guitarist Nick Hexum tells Billboard‘s Behind the Setlist podcast when asked about the band’s status following comments made online by bass player Aaron “P-Nut” Wills.

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In May, founding member P-Nut ignited speculation about his future with the band after saying on Twitter he was “planning on taking a break from the band after I fulfill my obligations,” which extended to 2023 “and slightly beyond.” Five months later, however, the band is on stable ground, says Hexum.

The band members have had “some really good conversations lately about getting getting back on track,” Hexum shares. “And you know, we’re looking forward to the future. Again, I think breaks are healthy, and we have had a fairly intense touring schedule” that has included 62 concerts so far in 2022 and continues with dates in Chicago (Oct. 22 and 23) and Los Angeles (Nov. 11 and 12) before heading south to Slightly Stoopid’s Closer to the Sun festival in Mexico in early December. “Everything feels pretty well on track,” says Hexum. “And we’ve we’ve had some really good talks and discussions lately. We’re excited about the next chapter — P-Nut included.”

This year, 311 made a concerted effort to include secondary markets in the middle of the U.S. as the band returned to the road after two years slowed by the COVID-19 pandemic. “Being from the middle of the country, we’re also in the middle of a lot of different styles,” shares Hexum. “We don’t want to be like elitist in any way, you know what I mean? We want to make it known that everyone’s welcome in our community. And so it was nice to show some love for the smaller towns that we have probably just been neglecting out of, you know, being being pulled to the bigger cities.”

311’s spring and fall tours took them to such cities as Fargo, N.D.; Bozeman and Missoula, Mont.; Green Bay and Superior, Wis.; Garden City, Idaho; Tulsa, Okla.; and Wichita, Kan. “Personally, it’s been a fun year to get to go to play, like, Missoula,” says Hexum. “Who knew that we had a good amount of fans there?”

This fall, 311 is streaming six concerts that each highlights a different album. Fans can purchase livestreams of the album sets and upgrade to bundles that include limited-edition merchandise such as T-shirts, autographed posters and animated NFTs. The band’s two performances at Terminal 5 in New York City on Oct. 1 and 2 featured 1993’s Music and 1994’s’s Grassroots. 311 will perform its breakthrough, self-titled album from 1995 and the successful follow-up, 1997’s Transistor, in Chicago on Oct. 22 and 23, respectively. As the tour continues west, shows in Los Angeles on Nov. 11 and 12 will perform Soundsystem from 1999 and From Chaos from 2001. 

Listen to the entire interview with 311’s Nick Hexum and drummer Chad Sexton at Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Amazon Music, Stitcher or Audible.

In a sea of out-of-left-field hit songs this year (Kate Bush, anyone?), David Guetta and Bebe Rexha‘s “I’m Good (Blue)” stands out as one of the most unpredictable.
Guetta and Rexha’s throwback dance-floor filler interpolates Eiffel 65’s 1999 novelty hit “Blue (Da Ba Dee)” (itself an unexpected success story), and as Rexha tells Katie & Keith on the Billboard Pop Shop Podcast (listen to the new episode below), the collab was actually made years ago and then unearthed by savvy fans.

“[David] had played it at a festival after we had cut it, and somebody took a YouTube video of it and posted it,” Rexha recalls. “Then somebody found that and made a remix and posted it to TikTok. Then this big gamer posted it from TikTok, and then it blew up from her page.

“It’s crazy, because you just never know what people want,” she adds. “Everybody was going crazy and being like, ‘We want this song! Why can’t we find it?’ And I was hitting up David [saying], ‘David, people really want this record! We should just put it out!’ At this point, it’s viral on TikTok, and people are asking for it. Let’s just give the people what they want. Let’s not judge it for what it is, and just put it out. It’s just a great, fun record.”

Now that great, fun record is on quite the ride up our charts, climbing 18-16 on this week’s Billboard Hot 100, holding at No. 2 on both the Global 200 and Global Excl. U.S. charts, and spending a fourth week atop Hot Dance/Electronic Songs. Rexha is marveling at the song’s global success and trying to piece together the secret to its popularity.

“Never did I think in a million years that it would be so big,” she says. “I guess people want to feel that 2000s nostalgia, especially after the three years of a pandemic and being cooped in their houses. It brings back that feeling of nostalgia, and it makes you feel kind of warm. I will put my hands up on this one and say I get it, but I’m also confused and shocked, but also very grateful.”

Although Rexha just released her sophomore album Better Mistakes last year, she hinted to fans on Twitter last week that her next project might be out sooner than they think – but she wants to give her hit with Guetta a little space before putting out the “very focused” new project.

“I’m not gonna lie: ‘I’m Good’ has thrown a little bit of a wrench into the whole plan,” she tells the Pop Shop Podcast. “I’m trying to let ‘I’m Good’ have its moment. But the one thing that’s really good about my project is that it does have dance elements to it. It has rock as well as dance elements to it. It’s inspired by one of my favorite female artists of all time. ”

Let the guessing games begin!

Here are a few more hints about the album: “I really spent a lot of time studying this time period and what this artist was saying and how she said it. And then how she said it when she was with her band and by herself, and I really want to make sure that it’s a real artist project. I think it was a natural evolution. I love rock music, and I love dance music. I was like: ‘How can I evolve naturally?,’ because I’m not a child anymore. I’m a grown woman, so this felt like a really great natural growth for me.”

Next up: Rexha will hit the Jingle Ball Los Angeles stage on Dec. 2 at The Forum in Inglewood, Calif.

Also on the show, we’ve got chart news on how Doja Cat gets her sixth top 10 hit on the Hot 100 with “Vegas” while Steve Lacy’s “Bad Habit” holds atop the list for a third straight week. Meanwhile, Glass Animals’ former No. 1 “Heat Waves” marks another milestone in its storied chart career, becoming the song with the most week ever on the Hot 100 — collecting its 91st week on the chart. And, on the Billboard 200 albums chart, Stray Kids notch their second No. 1 album (and second of this year!), while new albums from Quavo & Takeoff, G. Herbo and Charlie Puth all debut in the top 10.

Katie & Keith also take time to chat about all the Grammy controversies that bubbled up after preliminary ballots were sent to voters last week. From Nicki Minaj and Silk Sonic to The Weeknd and Drake, these were the biggest headlines from the ballots.

The Billboard Pop Shop Podcast is your one-stop shop for all things pop on Billboard‘s weekly charts. You can always count on a lively discussion about the latest pop news, fun chart stats and stories, new music, and guest interviews with music stars and folks from the world of pop. Casual pop fans and chart junkies can hear Billboard‘s executive digital director, West Coast, Katie Atkinson and Billboard’s senior director of charts Keith Caulfield every week on the podcast, which can be streamed on Billboard.com or downloaded in Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast provider. (Click here to listen to the previous edition of the show on Billboard.com.)

The Ledger is a weekly newsletter about the economics of the music business sent to Billboard Pro subscribers. An abbreviated version of the newsletter is published online.

The 2004 documentary Super Size Me took a humorous look at the health consequences of fast-food restaurants’ practice of up-selling customers to higher-priced, larger-portioned items – a super-sized cup of Coca-Cola rather than a large, for example. To the customer, up-selling looked like a good deal: the additional soda or food cost only a few cents more. For restaurants, the tactic padded margins because the difference in price dwarfed the cost of goods.  

Super Size Me comes to mind when looking at music subscription services and their quest to improve their margins. Those services have the equivalent of a super-sized option: the family plan, which generally costs 50% more than an individual subscription and includes up to six subscribers on a single plan. But unlike up-selling in the fast-food business, super-sizing a music subscription service doesn’t pay off in the short term. The family plan may help retention, which can improve subscribers’ lifetime value – that, not average revenue per user, is the key metric in the subscription business – but it does nothing to boost margins.  

For years, high-fidelity audio was presumed to be music’s version of super-sized food portions: an up-sell product that carried a higher price without a commensurate increase in costs to the platform. But high-fidelity audio now appears to be a standard option for most streaming platforms, another carrot to entice people to sign up rather than a means to segment consumers based on willingness to pay. That means music licensed from record labels and distributors doesn’t provide a path to better margins. In fact, there’s only a small amount of upside left to wring out of licensors: Spotify expects it can get its music margins to 30% and eventually to 35%, up from the 28.1% margin it reported for 2021. 

The future of the music streaming business looks more like gas stations than fast food. Gas stations have turned into convenience stores that sell junk food, beverages and household staples. Gas itself is almost a loss leader. Stations make their margins on everything else – a $3 bottle of Coca-Cola, a $2 candy bar or a $6 package of Ibuprofen pills. According to an examination of the economics of gas stations at The Hustle, stations earn a 1.4% profit margin on fuel compared to 200% on soda machines and 100% on lottery tickets.  

We’re seeing more examples of streaming services looking for margin relief outside of their core products. On Sept. 20, Spotify, which acquired audiobook distributor Findaway in June, launched a la carte audiobook sales, putting it directly in competition with Amazon-owned Audible. Audiobook downloads provide better margins than Spotify can get from music. As the retailer, Spotify keeps 50% of the audiobook purchase sale proceeds. Findaway’s distributor fee is 20% of the author’s royalties – which works out to 10% of sale proceeds after Spotify takes its 50% cut. In aggregate, Spotify gets a 60% margin in audiobook sales on its platform – double the typical margin in both music streaming and music downloads and more than double Spotify’s gross margin on music last year.  

One notable hiccup to Spotify’s foray into audiobooks is the buying process. Spotify sells audiobooks only at its website, not within the Spotify app. That allows it to keep its cushy margins without giving a significant portion to either Apple or Google for in-app purchase fees. Not offering audiobook sales within the app creates an extra step in the buying process, and even a small amount of friction can become a drag on purchase activity. But Spotify could also be a boost to the format, says Tony van Veen, CEO of DIY Media Group, which owns  BookBaby, a distributor for independent book authors. “If Spotify offers it and lowers the barrier, will there be more adoption? Yeah, I think so,” he says. Spotify CEO Daniel Ek believes audibooks could eventually achieve 50% of book sales in mature markets compared to their current 6-7% share.  

Spotify has already made a big push into podcasts in a search for better margins. Podcasts have been a money-loser with a –57% gross margin but have potential at scale. At a June 8 investor presentation, Spotify CFO Paul Vogel said podcast margins could reach 40% to 50% in the future. Tightening the belt could help get there: news broke on Oct. 7 that Spotify laid off “at least” 38 employees and will shutter 11 podcasts created by Gimlet and Parcast, two content studios Spotify acquired in 2019 for a combined $286 million. 

Also searching for better margins, French music streamer Deezer is planning a new product called Zen by Deezer. Expected to debut in France in the first quarter of 2023, the product offers “exclusive music relaxation, sounds, expert tips and guided exercises,” according to the company’s Oct. 4 investor presentation. It’s a sensible product extension given the explosion of apps for meditation, yoga, sleeping and mental health. In the wake of COVID-19, McKinsey put the size of the global wellness industry at a staggering $1.5 trillion.  

When Zen by Deezer is running at scale, Deezer believes, its content costs will run about 10% of revenue. That’s compared to roughly 70% for a standard on-demand streaming service that licenses music from record labels, music publishers and performance rights organizations. The difference, the presentation explains, is “one-off content production,” rather than music licensed at standard rates. Whether created in-house or acquired on a one-time, royalty-free basis, Zen by Deezer won’t pay most of its subscription fees to license music.  

Elsewhere, music is increasingly a means to hook customers before giving them another product. Abu Dhabi-based Anghami is looking to diversify through podcasts, branded content and live concerts. In June, it purchased Spotlight Events, a concerts company based in the Middle East-North Africa region. Tencent Music Entertainment, China’s largest music streamer, also made a concerted push into spoken-word audio when it acquired audiobook distributor Lazy Audio in 2021. TME also has a growing podcast business.  

Using a gas station metaphor for Spotify only goes so far – or does it? Consumers’ reliance on their automobiles makes them dependent on gas stations for transportation. Until electric cars see widespread adoption, most people will be regular customers at gas stations’ convenience stores. Music isn’t quite as entrenched as the automobile, but there’s a growing belief that a music subscription is a basic utility – like internet, gas or water – that most people will carry continuously. That gives streaming services on ongoing billing relationship with hundreds of millions of customers and an opportunity to make better margins on something other than music.