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During JPEGMAFIA‘s rambunctious set at this year’s Governor’s Ball, I watched as a young teenager stumbled out of the crowd, caked in sweat and mud. His glasses were fogged up, tilted at an angle across the pointed frame of his nose. He correcte them and looked at me and my friend I brought along for the day.

“Do NOT go in there,” he exclaimed, his face radiating the sort of joy that made me think he probably wanted me to ignore this warning.

By “there,” the young teen meant the mosh pit that had inevitably formed in the middle of the audience, a staple of every JPEGMAFIA show. As Peggy’s set continued, I watched as young person after young person entered and exited the crowd in a dusty, sweaty and (in one case) bloody haze, all emanating the same joy. It was as if Peggy’s mosh pit was a sort of exfoliant, revealing a newfound aliveness underneath those daring enough to try it out.

This is the magic of JPEGMAFIA. Growing up, he was a ubiquitous presence in Baltimore’s punk scene, and in turn has constantly toed the line between rap and hardcore. His latest two albums, 2024’s I Lay Down My Life for You and 2023’s Scaring the Hoes with Danny Brown are the closest Peggy’s ever come to completely shattering that genre matrix. Both projects flip from jazz to metal to rap to punk to house to everything else so frenetically it can be nauseating — but like that notorious mosh pit, to embark upon these journeys leaves you fully awake by the end. You realize just how deep the rabbit hole goes in terms of how music can be deconstructed and reconstructed. In the world of JPEGMAFIA, there are no boundaries.

“There’s no f—king rules, especially not in the music industry,” Peggy told me at his trailer just a few hours before his show. He’s sitting in front of a full length mirror, tackling his skincare routine. “Everything is f—king made up. All the contracts say we own you in all universes and then these n—as never been to Mars. They’re just saying s—t. You get me? They’re just saying s—t, I’m just saying s—t.”

I spoke with JPEGMAFIA about the Director’s Cut of his latest album, his haters, his thoughts on the state of rap and how it feels to be labeled an underground rapper while shooting for superstardom.

What inspired you to take a Directors Cut approach to I Lay Down My Life For You?

I looked up the word directors cut after I saw that Justice League, whatever, Snyder Directors Cut s—t, and I was like s—t, we need a directors cut in music. Because I do direct all these albums. I produce them, I mix them, all that s—t. So I was like, what can I do other than call it a deluxe? Cause you either do that for some old s—t or it’s just being lazy. So the deluxe or the directors cut for me was I just put the original album out. Cause I cut the fat off of it, so I put the original one back out. I love it and I got inspired from SZA cause she did Lana and she put a whole f—king new album at the front of that b—h and I’m just like, “Oh I didn’t know you could do that.”

Why choose these songs to be on the Directors Cut?

I’ve had ‘em around for so long I was like, “OK, these still go. I still like these…” So I put “Protect the Cross” and all that other s—t out.

“Protect the Cross” goes hard.

Oh, they hated that s—t. They was hating hard.

You have one lyric on “Protect The Cross” I really wanna touch on where you say: “2025, your politics is a gang sign.” Tell me more about your thoughts on politics at this moment, and how that bar came together?

When I say “your politics is a gang sign,” I meant it — because who you affiliate with now really says a lot about you. Trump has done more racist s—t in the last six months than I think Ronald Reagan did in his whole f—king career. John Oliver said this, but I’m gonna paraphrase him: If Ronald Reagan woke up from the dead and saw the racist s—t Trump did in the last six months, he would c-m so hard he’d die again. So It’s just like, if you wanna support that, that says a lot about you. But if you’re on the other side that also says a lot about you because the Democrats are a losing, f–ked party. They’re dismantled. So it really is a gang sign in the same way that gangs do that. It’s the same way.

Curious what the reception was to this album when it first came out? I know you’ve always had rock influences in your music, but there seems to be a lot more punk and noise energy in Lay Down My Life. Were people hating at first?

I mean yeah, because they just wanna hate — and some people just don’t like me, and they can’t admit it, so they be tryna pretend because they don’t like me the snares aren’t hitting as hard or somethin’. [I Lay Down My Life for You] got the same reception it always does. N—as hated in the beginning, and [then] they was like, “Oh wait this is actually good.” Yeah, f—k you. I get it.

That seems to be sort of a trend with your releases. How does that feel when that happens?

It happens every time. When I released Scaring the Hoes people were like, “This is an abomination to music.” Now they asking me for Scaring The Hoes 2. It’s so funny, when it comes out, n—as be hating.

I’m just theorizing, but maybe it’s like a risk-taker type thing?

I am a risk-taker! I’m one of the only risk-takers in rap! The rest of these motherf—kers literally do the same thing. Alchemist, Earl and them? They’ve been making the same f—king song for the last twenty f—king years. Nobody gives a s—t. I’m not them. I’m here to evolve, go farther, go harder and I’m gonna do my s—t. I’m not here to give people the bare minimum and have that just be okay, n—a. That’s not me. I’m not wasting my potential like those motherf—kers. I’m not like that. I’m maximizing my s—t. I’m 35 years old — and Tupac said when Black men turn 30, they lose their fire. I have no loss of fire. I’m hot as s—t.

These other motherf—kers, whatever. Y’all go do that boring ass s—t. I’m not with that. I’m here to take this s—t forward whether y’all like it or not y’all can kiss my Black ass. And they’re gonna pretend like I’m not doing what I’m doing, but I’ve been doing it! And I’ve been doing it so well that people have to hate. They try to take the title from me and they just can’t, because it’s me. You can’t imitate me. I’m me, It came from my brain. Keep imitating Earl, and making hyper-pop songs, whatever the f—k these n—as is doing. I’m gonna be doing my thing like I’ve been doing, ’cause clearly something is working.

Going off that, how do you feel about the state of rap right now?

I think the state of rap is in the best state its been, ever. Because you have choices from everywhere. You can make any kind of rap you want. In the same way ‘90s rock was so big, Marilyn Manson got big. Rap is the No. 1 genre in the world, anybody can take off at any point off of one TikTok. It’s like a free-for-all. I like that s—t. I enjoy that s—t because it evens things out. I don’t have the same resources as some of these motherf—kers do so I gotta go off my talent.

Some of these motherf—kers come out here, and they just be havin’ pyro and they be sitting in they f—king room on stage and all this dumb ass s—t and I’m like, ‘I don’t wanna see all that s—t n—a, can you perform? And that’s my thing. I’m gonna come with the production. I’m gonna come with all that s—t…because that’s what I do. Same thing I did before I ever got in the music industry.

I said, you know what? F—k these n—as. I can do this better. And I got in the music industry and I got better than all the f—king underground. Now it’s time for me to take it farther. I don’t wanna be in the underground no more. These n—as suck. They’re boring and they’re losers.

How important is the live performance to you?

When I first came in, I knew it was important to be a good live performer because it would make me stand out. And I came from the hardcore scene in Baltimore so I was used to that kinda s—t. I’m always gonna have my energy, I’m always gonna do that but it’s not enough to carry you on forever. Eventually you got to, like, do some s—t that’s interesting. My set now is like some Batman Returns s—t. Fogged out, lights everywhere. There’s a podium, because I was watching the Democratic National Convention and I was like, “Damn this s—t look crazy. What is this set up? A podium? Three drapes, and just a motherf—ker talkin’ lookin important? I like that.” So I imitated that. I wanna keep evolving and growing, because I don’t like being an underground rapper.

Do you feel that definition doesn’t suit you anymore? Do people still try to put that on you?

They will try to put it on me, and that’s fine, I understand it. I just wanna blow past it so hard where you say it and you sound crazy. It’d be like calling Steve Lacy an underground rapper.

Why do you wanna blow past it?

Because I’m not a trust-fund kid and I actually come from the projects. So I want actual success. I’m not, like, avoiding it because my parents already had it. I don’t have the mindset that these other motherf—kers do. So I’m just like, “No, I wanna take it to the tippy-top, because I came from the bitty-bottom.”

You wanna be a superstar!

Yes, and If I don’t, fine, I’m fine being an underground rap legend, that’s cool. But while I’m alive and active I’m gonna do everything to take this s—t to the top and not the middle.

What do you see for the future of rap when it comes to fusing it with hardcore music?

I think a lot of people are gonna jump on that because what people are gonna do is they’re gonna realize what you guys are doing is boring as s—t. People yearn for something new, especially in rap. We’re yearning, we’re tired. We don’t wanna hear Drake complain about b—hes anymore. We don’t f—king care, he’s 40. We need something different. I’m here to try to provide and cultivate that as much as I can because rap fans are f—king bored. Their idea of doing something different is taking different sounding s—t and throwing trap drums on it, and that’s not what I’m here to do. I’m here to really f—k you up. You get what I’m saying? And If I’m not, I did not do my f—king job. Conscious rap has Nas, trap rap has Future, experimental rap is me. That’s it.

Do you feel there have been rappers that have come after you that have tried to bite your sound?

I’ve seen plenty of it, but then I see guys like Matt Proxy from Minneapolis. He came out of my influence and he shows love and respect, but for some reason some of these guys, they come at me like we beefing or something. Sometimes I tweet a lot and you think I’m your friend. I’m not your f—king friend and I don’t know you, and If you come up to me I’ll slap the s—t out of you. So leave me alone.

I see people d—k riding and copying, but they don’t wanna give homage, because it’s me and they’re offended by something I say or do. It’s the same reason you won’t see me on certain festivals because certain n—as don’t want me to be on that s—t. I’m the Real Deal Holyfield motherf—ker. Imitation don’t look good next to the real thing, do it?

It seems like you’re very aware of all of these things that are going on.

Everybody is. Everybody is. All artists are. When I was working with Ye, he was on his subreddit every day. Every day. Him and Bianca, every day, just looking at it. Everybody is. I’m not on my subreddit, but he was in there — because he was using it for, like, criticism and to be like, “Oh let me fix this.”

Do you think there’s still a lot of misunderstanding surrounding who JPEGMAFIA is?

People are kinda coming around, I see it a little bit. Because before it was literally just white teenagers projecting their insecurities on to me, and I was like, “Y’all realize I’m not a 15-year-old white boy in my house with my mom, right?” I’m a 35-year-old man and I run a business. I don’t mind, it’s not [about] being white. It’s the people that take that and try to remove my Blackness to make their little narratives sound better. It’s just like, that’s not real.

So now people are starting to realize that these motherf–kers are just hating. I’m not doing anything egregious right now. I’m not getting on Twitter to say anything crazy, and when I do get on Twitter to say something crazy it’s to promote an album. People just fall for it so well, you know?

But I see a lot of people turning the tide and being like, “Okay, maybe this n—a just likes to make music, and his personality is not a white teenage boy. Maybe he was born in 1989 and he might not think like me.”