Music

Boldy James had one of the best years of his career in 2025.
The rapper out of Detroit dropped three albums this year with three different producers — a format that’s starting to become his signature. At the top of the year, he released Penalty of Leadership with Montréal-based producer Nicholas Craven, then in June, he dropped Across the Tracks with fellow Griselda affiliate Conductor Williams, and earlier this month he and Harry Fraud finally linked up for The Bricktionary.

This particular project has been years in the making, as the two have ran in the same circles for a while now, becoming familiar with each other through Boldy’s cousin Chuck Inglish of the Cool Kids and meeting each other in person down in Austin for SXSW with the help of Action Bronson and a block of hotel rooms provided to him by Reebok. Their chemistry in the studio mirrors their chemistry in person. Harry arrived late to our interview at the Billboard New York offices in Midtown because of the traffic, of course, but one thing I noticed was how Boldy lit up when he walked into the conference room where we had been talking for about 30 minutes.

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We talked with the duo about finally working together, independence and just life in general. Check out our conversation below.

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So, how did this project came together?

Boldy James: I met Harry Fraud right after I met The Alchemist; it might’ve been on the same day, or same night type sh—t at SXSW. We had been talked about working, and I kind of lost focus on track from the music for a minute, so we revisited the idea of me and him finishing a full length project. We completed it two years ago and worked out all the particulars out. Now the world gets a chance to hear it.

Harry: That was my first time there. I’m there with Action Bronson and had a bunch of hotel rooms. He told everybody to roll with him, because Reebok had given him a bunch of hotel rooms. So, that must’ve been when we met. Obviously, back then, I was a different guy, using different things… Over time, I’d send Bo a song to jump on, but I always had in the back of my mind that to work on a project with him.

You guys have had this in the stash for two years?

Boldy: I sit on a lot of music. Y’all don’t usually hear my music no sooner than a year or two after I make it. The most recent, current to date, like music that I make up into the point where y’all get a chance to hear it is maybe The Alchemist projects and the Nic Craven projects. Everything else usually take a minute to come out, because we got a hash out the layout, the business arrangements and agreements, you know, terms and conditions.

Harry Fraud: The project in general was such a long time in the making. Boldy’s cousin, Chuck Inglish, was the first person to show me music on the Internet. Me and French [Montana] were in the city, and we were selling mixtapes hand to hand. And at that time, a guy that I was sharing a studio with was Chuck’s roommate in Chicago.

Chuck came to the city one time to our studio, and I’m working with French, we’re just doing what we’re doing. And Chuck’s on the computer, and I’m like, “What you doin’?” And he’s like, “Yo, this is Nah Right.” And I’m like, “What the f—k is that?” So, he’s like, “This is a blog.” I’m like, “What the f—k are you talking about?” And he’s like, “Yo, this is where people post your music on the Internet. This is how you get your music out.” And he hands me an email address and says I should send them a song. So, I sent them “New York Minute” and the rest is history.

The whole time Chuck is around us and he’s telling us that his cousin is the best rapper you ever heard. I’m like, “The f—k is this guy talkin’ about?” You know what I mean? Deadass. This guy is talking crazy. Then he starts showing us a song here and there and the guy sounds crazy. And he like, “This my cousin, Boldy.” This is all the way back then. That’s the inception of me even wanting to work with Boldy.

Boldy mentioned you guys worked on this together in person.

Boldy: We did them on the spot right then and there. That was how me and Al work. We sit in the studio, Al cook up the beats, I sit there scribble my rap while he whipping up. Same thing I did with H. Harry played the beats. He sitting there with me, I’m smoking, writing, maybe eat something, talk a little sh—t, and I look up, like, “Aye, H, I’m ready. You ready?” He pulls the beat up, and it’s showtime. We basically did each record like that.

Harry: Yeah, we worked on every song in person. We were staying in my house in the Hamptons together, and then we did some work at my studio in Brooklyn.

Boldy: I was telling him we didn’t do any email records.

Which is rare these days.

Harry: When you really get to know Bo, you realize that’s actually the only way to optimize him, in terms of us creating something that was cohesive — it was necessary for us to be together. It’s important for me with the guys that I really care about as humans and artists to be in the room with them. You know my guys that I really create that s–t with, Bo, Benny [the Butcher], Dave [East], French, we’re in the room. The only one, I would say, not — because he lives so far away and doesn’t travel all that much — is Spitta, but even with him our first stuff is together, and we kind of solidified the sound, so we can do it via email.

Word, you guys have built up a chemistry.

Boldy: Man, this my real brother. The unique thing about this album is that I was perfectly fine in the beginning of it — like the first 80 percent — but then the last 20 percent, I broke my neck, back and f—king leg in the accident. I could barely walk when I came back to finish the rest of it.

Harry: I’m honestly grateful that the album spanned those life experiences for him, because I know it’s cathartic for him to be able to express himself during all those different chapters. I know that allows him to get out whatever is inside him. Just even watching my boy go through that, it’s like, I can’t fix his neck, his back, but I can lend this to him to make him feel better, so he can work out whatever’s in his head. I love hanging out with him.

Boldy: I’m always pullin’ up.

Harry: Like, even yesterday we’re in the studio, I didn’t even think, “Oh, we’re gonna make music. I’m gonna pull up beats.” I just haven’t seen my guy in a while, so I just wanted to chill.

Boldy: I was dead two hours before I got to y’all. I was pullin’ up on my brother. I ain’t even tell them to cut a beat on nothin’. I got there and fell asleep.

Harry: [Laughs.] I feel like a lot of people don’t put enough value in that nowadays. You gotta create real chemistry to have musical chemistry. Talk about life, talk about what’s going on. We’re sitting there and he’s putting me on to a new guy in Detroit that’s on YouTube yesterday, and we’re laughing our asses off. You gotta create that thread. I feel like we’re able to do that effortlessly because of all that lineage I described before. It’s easy for us to work. We were never in the studio scratching our heads.

Boldy: Just having him there helps because with his history, his track record, I’m moreso looking at him for that look — like, “Yeah, we got one” — after I’m done with a song.

Harry: And he’ll tell you. When he would do a verse and I’m sitting there anticipating it — because there’s always a line or a metaphor, something I key in on — and I’m like, “Ahhh,” because I’m such a fan of him. It turns me up, it makes me want to work harder, it make me wanna refine it. And through the process of finishing the album, I put so much pressure on myself — because I feel like he did his job, so it was my turn to match what he was doing. It’s important for me to step up to the plate, even with the mixing and stuff.

Boldy: When he sent it to the first dude, and dude did what he did to it — when they sent it back, I was telling him, like, “It’s cool — but for some reason, I like it the way it sounded when we recorded it. So, just mix it like that.”

Harry: Sometimes, man, you gotta have somebody that you trust to shake you out of your comfort zone, your process, to make you step back and realize, like, “Nah, they got a point.”

Boldy: You forgot about that pulse that be on your beats.

Harry: Exactly.

Boldy: A lot of times, if it’s called for it, you can strip the beat and just have oil on vinegar. But with this type of project — I was telling him — I d–n near felt like we could’ve just put it out like that without three rounds of mixes.

Harry: He’s right. When I went back and listened, we had captured the essence, and we had lost a little bit of that by making it too shiny, too polished.

Boldy: The reason why the beats feel like this is because everything that’s going on with it is what it is that we feeling. When you get to stripping it and trying to bring this back out? Nah, leave that s—t just like that.

Do you use a certain program? A certain beat machine?

Harry: We used an MPC 2500, we used an MPC 2000 on some beats, we did some beats in Pro Tools. And at the end of the day, we put everything into Pro Tools to record his vocals and do the arrangements and stuff like that. The actual creation of the beats ranged from an MPC to an iPad to whatever. One thing I realized about myself is — maybe I got ADHD or something — but it’s easier for me to switch things up because that gives me a new perspective, a new way to approach the beat, a new way to create.

I know you guys said you recorded this together — but in terms of the sound, did you have a pack of beats in mind already, or were you making the beats as you went along?

Harry: When I know I’m working with somebody, I go through all the recent things that I’ve made — they might not be finished beats — and then the ones that I know or I feel will have the opportunity to fit that artist, I’ll go refine the beat, and then when they pull up, I’ll have a playlist. It might be 10 to 20, and then I’ll sit down with with the artist and key in on what they like.

Once I see what they’re keying in on for the project, that allows me to then go deeper and put more beats in that zone. That’s the linchpin for me, I’m off to the races. He’ll tell you — the first couple beats might have been more geared to what he had been doing with, say, Al [The Alchemist], because I’m such a fan and I’ve been listening to them.

Boldy x Harry

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That would influence you a bit subconsciously.

Harry: Exactly, but then once I saw him keying into certain beats, I knew where he was going. It don’t even have to be spoken.

And Boldy’s style comes across so effortless.

Harry: Well, you know, it’s funny, because there’s been a lot of great MCs through time that are able to pull off a delivery that some would say is, quote, unquote monotone, but take it into these different pockets — like, say, a Guru from Gang Starr. That’s a perfect example of that back then, but he’s a new realization of what it is to give you that delivery where he’s not doing circus tricks with his voice.

It’s the ability to do that in such away that now you’re locking in on what he’s saying. And then when, like you said, on the third or fourth or fifth listen you’re catching s–t where you’re like, “Whoa, I didn’t even hear that the first three times.” That’s what the greats do.

Some of the songs reminded me of ’80s police procedurals like Miami Vice, but then you mentioned the cokewave s—t, you could kind of hear that style.

Harry: Yeah, that’s it, bro. If you go listen to Bo’s earlier s—t too, you know what I mean? That thread is in there too. It had a very like street gritty feel to it, and it was like bringing those two things together to create the vibe that we have now. It’s like all those sounds, but refined a little bit. When I was really approaching this is I wanted to hear him with a lot of bass in the track.

Boldy: There we go.

Harry: And I feel like the low end of this album, is unlike anything that Boldy has done, where, like, it’s a very full, round low end. When you put it in the car, that sh—t is gonna slam. It’s a motion picture. It’s The Bricktionary, it’s the manual. There’s not a lot of artists left that can tell you a story without it being a, quote unquote, story rap.

He raps like you’re sitting passenger side with him, rolling through the hood.

Boldy: That’s all that s—t is [Laughs.] We in the car all day, bro. Our kids have to literally drag us out the car and in the house. Give me a hug, sit down and have a bite to eat with me or something. We always ripping and running. I can’t sit still.

So, what’s the soundtrack for you when you’re on the road ripping and running?

Boldy: I’m a silly guy. I listen to RxKNephew being silly. I listen to a lot of drill music. I listen to Lil Durk more than probably anything. I was burnt off the Pop Smoke. I might listen to a little Nav. I listen to a lot of Lil Baby. I listen to a lot of Future. I listen to a lot of s—t that I don’t rap nothing like.

Future has a had a great year. What is it about his music that grabs your attention?

Boldy: Future is one of the most talented artists from our generation. I don’t even know how he come up with the s—t he come up. The same questions somebody asks me are the same questions I would ask an artist like Future and Jay-Z. Like, what the f—k was you thinking when you said that crazy ass s—t?

When you met Jay, you didn’t get a chance to ask him anything like that?

Boldy: He’s not a guy I would ask a lot of questions. I would more sit back and soak the game up. What the f—k can I tell him, other than something that he probably was already inquiring about, and I probably can’t really put him up on game. I can just give him some reassurance or something he probably was already thinking, or sorting out in his head anyway. That’s the OG. You don’t ever talk a n—a like that to death.

Harry: I swear I wanted to get him on the song we got Benny on, but when I reached out, my contact said he wasn’t recording. You gotta catch him when he’s in rapper mode.

You said that you ride around and raps pop up in your head as you take in your environment.

Boldy: I ride around in a million dollar Rolls Royce with the top down. It’s easy to write the raps like that. I’m coming through my ghetto with the top down, just reflecting on how I used to be walking around that b—ch with pop bottles. I used be around this b—ch selling crack rocks, robbing, stealing cars, all types of hot-boy-ass s—t. God spared me. I got a family now, I’m rich, I got a career. It’s like my goods are finally outweighing my bads.

Is it surreal sometimes when you think about that?

Boldy: I just always been driven. You get what you put into the s—t. I put a lot into this s—t, so I knew I was gonna get something out of it eventually.

Harry: He’s a perfect example of that, because no matter what Boldy is doing in life, he’s always working. He was in L.A. last week, then he goes to Detroit, then he drove to my spot in the Hamptons. I don’t take that lightly that he gets in a car for 12 hours to come do this. That’s not lost on me. It’s not just at his convenience, it’s an inconvenience, actually. And that’s when you see if motherf—kers are really about it; when they have to inconvenience themselves to do something.

You two have known each other for a minute, so why is this the only project you’ve put out?

Harry: Because we never pressed it. It’s all natural. Everything comes when it’s supposed to come, happens when it’s supposed to happen, and that’s the best genesis of something like this.

It’s organic.

Harry: Yeah, and one thing I’ve realized through working with him is that I’m a tool for him. He’s not fitting into my atmosphere. I’m coming into his and I have to figure out how to exist within that atmosphere without creating friction, tension, drag, if you will, on a plane flying, like letting him fly through his atmosphere in his perfect harmony. A lot of things with Bo I’ve had to not allow myself to get bent out of shape with his process or this or that. This goes for me too.

My process is, “Cool, come out to my house that’s three hours outside of the city so we can f—king lock the f—k in. We don’t got anything else to do but rap, smoke weed, watch TV, whatever we’re doing, eat, boom, boom, boom.” Our supreme focus is on the music. I think it’s really important for producers to become producers again. If producers want to achieve longevity, they gotta to figure out how to continue to update their process and tailor it to the artist that you’re working with.

What do you use to write? A notepad, your phone? What’s your process like.

Boldy: Here’s my process. I ride around, I think of pretty much what I want to say, right? And then sis will say something to me, or we might be on the freeway, I look up see a billboard, or a street sign, and then, when Isee the right place, person or thing, it might write my whole rap for me just off the course of my day. I can’t explain it. It’s like my brain just get to unlock and then I take it to my phone. But I’m just trying to take note of all the s—t that I really thinking in my head and now I’m trying to catch lightning in the bottle. Then, when I know I got it, I go to the studio and drop it.

You guys remember that golden era, but also grew up with the Internet and watched the industry shift as you were coming up.

Harry: Those walls are tearing down. They don’t exist in the same way anymore. In terms of the scalability of the business. We control all our sh—t. The rappers back then had boundaries and ceilings put on them by corporate entities.

Boldy: And they wasn’t as privy to the Internet where they make a mockery of people that’s getting finessed in their deals. Seeing that on the Internet makes you want to have more business sense when you approach these deals and these companies.

Harry: Yeah, because we’ve seen the horror stories.

Boldy: This the scary part: 20 people getting paid before you, but you paying them out of your pocket, but they count your money before you do, and pay you out of your own hard work and labor. When you see a whole bunch of trial and error of that it makes you want to reevaluate your situation, or it makes you go into a situation being more informed.

Harry: You can’t trick us with $100,000. No disrespect to anybody from any era, but you can’t trick us. You can’t shake $100,000 in front of us and make us sign over our life. We touch that in our sleep by putting the music out by ourselves.

Boldy: Don’t do that, H.

Harry: I’m sorry. It just hurts my feelings. It insults me. I can’t remember the last project I took up front money for. I don’t want it. I’m comfortable waiting for mine. I love delayed gratification.

Boldy: I have the patience of a sniper.

Harry: 100 percent, because I know what’s on the other side. If you’re giving me this up front, you’re not doing that out of the kindness of your heart. You’re doing that because you know on the backend, you’re gonna make like three times more. It’s like a sleight of hand from a magician. To get the card out of your ear, I got to get your eyes over here, and then I’m reaching over here.

I peeped it so clear from the inside that I told myself, I’ll never go for that again. My first deal was a stupid deal, but I was so hungry. You give me 180 grand for whatever, I’m like, “S—t.” Yeah, that was a bad deal, but I learned the best lesson. Now we’re so fortified, man, we control our destiny in so many ways.

And you want to stay as independent as possible now.

Harry: I’ll never go back to that life. I’ll never change this tune. I only want ownership. The story of what I do in business hasn’t really been told on the front line yet because I’m really in my artist bag right now. But 10 years from now, people are going to look at what I’ve been doing for the past decade plus, and understand what I’m really doing in business and how much s—t I really have my fingers in that no one knows about musically, they’ll realize that I figured this s—t out and then I’ll quietly set up the next chapter. This is what all of this has been a catalyst for.

The mainstream is definitely paying attention, they’re absorbing it all, getting inspired, maybe biting a little bit.

Harry: The sauce that these independent guys are bringing? They’re all absorbing it. The production, the style of dress, to the way they’re rapping, everything.

A lot of times the mainstream stuff on streaming services are 20-30, songs long and it sounds like they weren’t in the studio with the producers sometimes. Some of those albums don’t feel cohesive, they sound like they just threw something together.

Harry: Totally, and I started to realize that I was happy to be a mercenary for people for a long time. You hire me to come kill, I kill and leave. You know, but it might be one song, it might be two songs. It might on your project, right? I’m happy to do that, but like I’m confident in my ability to do that. But what I realized is that I’m more satisfied artistically and as a human being with building these worlds with people like you said, when you listen to it, it sounds like a movie. That makes me feel more satisfied.

You were going for that anyway. You came up really working closely with French, and most of Boldy’s projects are with one producer.

Boldy: You can miss big both ways. He can leave an element out of the project that maybe you would get working with multiple producers. But, you know, it also could be super cohesive with everything you want out the project, because there’s one producer producing, especially when you’re working with the pros. They know that there’s an X amount of taste palettes that want this and that and this and this on the album. So they try to satisfy all those appetites.

Harry: He’s very nonchalant about it, but when you really step back and think about the people that gravitate towards his nucleus, there’s got to be something special there. We all gravitate to his talent, and that’s what inspires the producer to be great. And if you look at the guys that are around Boldy, I mean, it’s like, insane. It’s the real snipers, it’s the real ones. The guys that really do this on a higher level.

Looking at that from afar, you realize there’s got to be something really special about this guy. It’s a je ne sais quoi; you can’t out your finger on it necessarily. We can point out all the kind of nerd s—t aspects of the rapping, but at the end of the day, it’s passed all that. It’s a special thing to work with artists like Bo.

Boldy: I appreciate that, champ.

He’s been on a run — this is your third project this year.

Boldy: I got a lot of music. A day in the life with the mafia will write your whole album, so that’s my problem. I’m privy to something that a lot of people gotta pay to experience. Most people got to pay to go to the hood and hang. They be getting extorted and pressed by n—as in the neighborhood for them to even be able to come around. With me, we are the neighborhood. If you really like trying to get inspired or you can’t think of another way to be creative, musically, come hang out with us. It’ll open your eyes and broaden your horizons, so you’ll be able to scribble some s—t that another person will have to read a book to know something about this type of s—t. That’s my advantage, but it’s a curse too, you know?

Harry: He’s insanely prolific. And if you notice, for me, I always gravitate towards artists that are very prolific, because I like to make a lot of music. I have to make music whether I was successful with it or not. It’s my therapy, it’s my way I work out what’s going on inside my mind. It’s everything for me. If I’m not doing projects with people, you might only get to hear 10 Harry Fraud beats a year. That’s not enough for me, I need more. I need to get it out of me.

What’s the strategy for next year? How you plan on attacking 2025?

Boldy: I want to drop an album with my sister Double D. I want me and Double to do a crazy ass full length. Just me and her and whoever she want on the album, because she got a better ear for knowing artists outside of hip-hop, outside of street rapping, all this drill rap s—t, she listens to a little bit of everything.

Harry: I have a lot. Me and Benny are probably about three quarters away done with The Plugs I Met 3. Me and Spitta got a new album coming.

Y’all gotta put that tape out already.

Boldy: Me and Butch? I can’t rap better than Butch. I’ma do the album with Benny and get Conway to write my raps [Laughs.] Those my real guys, bro. I love West, I love ‘way, I love Benny, man. It’s love forever with them, guys. I don’t never see us having no bad blood or falling out, having no strain on the relationship, I mean, but H will tell you, we pretty much got a good judge of character. Our circle, overall, is a lot of the same players involved. But like he said, it’s really like a brotherhood there. It’s not a falsified relationship, just for, the purposes of music and making money off each other. Them n—as got money. H ain’t got to work with me.

Harry: This is the new class of the independent guys that are touching real paper, and that makes us respect each other so much more, because it’s like, yes, we’re all good at music, but we’re also really good at business.

Boldy: We are the star childs of our families. We’re wiz kids and these fake thugs and s—t out here in the streets, they don’t give enough credit to the guys that are smart. They try to make being smart nerdy, and nerdy not cool. I embrace the nerd in me. You feel me. That’s what make my world spin. That’s what you will pay my bills.

What are you a nerd about?

Boldy: A lot of things. I’m an evil genius on a lot of things. That’s nerdy in a sense.

What’s good with that Dilla tape? You had said that the record is done, paperwork is done, you were just waiting for the right time.

Boldy: Shout out RJ Rice, and Young RJ — Slum Village, Detroit s—t. Big RJ and me prayed over the album, and when it’s time, I know he gonna put it out because I’ve been catching a lot of steam. I think he just waited until I got back hot to put it out for real because he didn’t want it to fall on deaf ears. It’s a good project.