magazine
Page: 36
Elton John’s Farewell stadium run was one of the biggest touring stories of the year, selling 2.07 million tickets and grossing $334.4 million, according to Billboard Boxscore. But even he felt the pain of being on the road in 2022. The singer, 75, postponed two shows early on when he caught COVID-19. John and his entourage of security and hairdressers had to travel in one bubble while his longtime band was in a separate one. And gas prices were astronomical.
“It’s emotionally and spiritually healthy for people to get back out and see shows again,” says David Furnish, John’s husband and manager, calling from the family’s Los Angeles home ahead of the tour’s Nov. 20 finale at the city’s Dodger Stadium. “We just eat the extra cost. You just have to acknowledge that’s the world we’re living in now and press on.”
In 2022, the biggest stars once again performed to packed venues. Bad Bunny’s aptly named World’s Hottest Tour finished in stadiums, selling 1.8 million tickets and earning $375.5 million, the highest-grossing Latin tour ever. Red Hot Chili Peppers, Lady Gaga, Garth Brooks, Mötley Crüe/Def Leppard and The Weeknd played stadiums. Harry Styles sold out 15 straight nights at Madison Square Garden. Live Nation reported huge revenue all year, including $6.2 billion in the third quarter. “2022 has been an incredible year of returning to live events,” CEO Michael Rapino said in a November letter to investors.
Yet high costs, supply chain issues and canceled concerts due to COVID-19 and mental health concerns posited a bleak side to this triumphant touring return after a lost 2020 and wobbly 2021. When canceling a tour in September, Santigold posted about the challenges of being on the road: “We were met with the height of inflation — gas, tour buses, hotels and flight costs skyrocketed.” In November, Lorde, who had sold out shows in New York, Los Angeles, London and elsewhere, wrote a newsletter to fans detailing “truly mind-boggling” freight costs, crew shortages, overbooked trucks and other factors that created an “almost unprecedented level of difficulty.”
“The hardest thing for touring this year, which may be a one-time occurrence, is you’ve got three summers of touring in one,” says Lorde’s manager Jonathan Daniel. “The amount of choices for people is insane. You can’t cry for artists who are wildly successful — they just have to spend more for freight — but for the middle class, it’s really hard.”
yim-touring-billboard-2022-bb16-illustration-by-andrei-cojocaru-pro-1260The biggest stars largely skated over the problems. In touring with the “largest production he has ever taken on the road,” as Furnish calls it, John’s team created an elaborate COVID-19 protocol to protect the singer, his band and the crew, providing regular testing and updated vaccines and boosters. “It’s important we deliver the same quality show and entertainment for everybody,” Furnish says. “It didn’t even occur to us to reconfigure it in any way to try to make it cheaper.”
Country star Luke Combs, who sold out multiple stadiums in 2022, was determined to tour the same way as he had before the pandemic — including ticket prices. He employed his regular band and crew throughout 2020, then capped ticket prices at $100, employing Ticketmaster’s Verified Fan service to cut down on resales. (Some upcoming tickets, however, cost as much as $2,800 on secondary-market sites.) “You take the hit,” says Chris Kappy, Combs’ manager. “We locked everything in at pre-pandemic pricing and post-pandemic expenses.”
According to Fielding Logan, the Q Prime manager who represents Eric Church and other top country acts, bus prices are 30% to 80% higher than they were before the pandemic. But like Combs, Church maintained low ticket prices, putting many seats on sale for $40. “Eric eats the additional expenses and has the lower profit margin,” Logan says. Not every artist has the means to absorb the additional costs, though: Another of Logan’s clients, singer-songwriter Paul Cauthen, was hoping to graduate from a van to a tour bus, but high costs have complicated those plans. “Could this inflation temporarily put a bus out of his reach? Yes, it could,” he says.
Some agents and managers have predicted 2023 will bring back a more manageable, pre-pandemic-style touring roster now that artists are neither rushing to make up for lost revenue nor rescheduling canceled shows from the past two or three years. But in July, demand was so high for Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band’s 2023 tour that resale seats on Ticketmaster cost over $5,000. And when Taylor Swift’s stadium tour went on sale in November, fans flooded the ticket-selling site to the point that it shut down. Meanwhile, Ed Sheeran and George Strait are among other stars playing stadiums next year. “2024 is probably where it really goes back — because everybody will have toured,” says Daniel, who also manages Green Day, Sia and Fall Out Boy. “Just having not everybody out at once is going to help.”
This story originally appeared in the Dec. 10, 2022, issue of Billboard.
After being unable to tour behind his 2020 debut album, experimental alt artist Jean Dawson embarked on his first headlining tour this year with second full-length, Chaos Now, which hit No. 35 on Billboard’s Heatseekers Albums chart. Below, he reflects on the experience.
Being that I had no expectations, everything I received was hyper-special. The tour was completely sold out, which was wild, and the audiences were right there with me. I feel like I made thousands of friends in the span of a month. Nothing was expected, so everything was gifted.
The first Los Angeles show [at The Roxy in November] blew — there were so many suits in the building standing in VIP, just staring and analyzing, seeing how they could commodify the energy in the front, where the audience was at full throttle. I hated it. That show stood out because I could clearly see the disparity between love and greed. The true VIP was the pit where people were feeling the push and pull of what we do together. The area where the “important people” stood was a daycare center for those who feel above the true sentiment of what we did that night. The next night in Los Angeles was amazing, though.
When I did meet-and-greets, which was about every night, I got to see how many people felt a kinship with something that just lived in my head until it didn’t. It’s like getting 20,000 hugs all at once. I think I’ll spend my whole life trying to understand it and, moreover, appreciate that feeling. It was love. For the first time in my life, I felt like no one was judging me. The only challenges that felt like hurdles were not getting sick over and over, which ended up happening.
I’m trying to practice having no goals — sounds counterproductive, but I just want to be. Take everything with grace, gratitude and f–king heart. The shows will [continue to] be legendary because it isn’t about me — it’s about them.
This story originally appeared in the Dec. 10, 2022 issue of Billboard.
Given how hard nightlife was hit during the pandemic, with many clubs closing permanently, industry insiders are pleasantly surprised with its 2022 comeback. JoJo Walker, director of programming at New York’s Avant Gardner and Brooklyn Mirage, attests that the industry is generally doing “amazingly well,” even though “it’s more challenging now than ever before.”
As clubs reopened amid the lingering pandemic in mid-2021, venues scrambled to get DJs back behind the decks to play for fans eager to return to dancefloors. “2021 was a free-for-all because everybody wanted to party,” says Walker. “People were willing to pay high ticket prices, and the wheel was being fed from all angles.” This competitive market boosted DJ fees, which in many cases increased up to 20% for club and festival sets. But now, fees remain lodged at these higher rates even as demand has declined, creating headaches for dance promoters who are also navigating inflation’s effects on nightlife.
“It’s not just that artists are being greedy,” says Walker, “but for them to do what they need to in terms of traveling and making a living, they need to have their costs covered: flights, hotels, cars. Those costs are being passed on to the promoter, and now there’s not a wealthy part of the wheel that can be taken from.” Walker adds that many DJs are touring less after enjoying the pandemic’s slowed pace, prompting agents to negotiate higher paychecks for the shows these artists do play.
Promoters have had to get creative in order to turn a profit. Walker is currently structuring artist deals that involve a lower flat rate and a per-ticket bonus, which incentivizes DJs to promote their shows, as their final rates are relative to those shows’ success. Given that she books for multiple venues, along with the annual 100,000-person electronic festival Electric Zoo (owned by Avant Gardner), Walker also has the dexterity to offer multishow contracts, creating an advantage over promoters booking a single room.
Brig Dauber, entertainment director at long-standing Los Angeles club Avalon, says the venue has “kept on step” with new fee expectations while working harder to determine which artists are most viable in the current market. This year, Avalon has skewed toward theme-based nights centered on certain genres and musical eras to “diversify the patronage and avoid the risk of not actualizing profit versus artist fee.”
But whether booking a tiny space or an 8,000-capacity club like Brooklyn Mirage, the surge in venue overhead is resulting in consumers having to deal with higher ticket prices to cover costs. Walker says fans “can’t necessarily afford to go out in the same way they used to, so they’re much more selective about the shows they do attend.” This scrupulousness has created a major increase in week-of and day-of ticket sales, which in turn fosters even less certainty among promoters.
And yet, Walker remains confident things are heading in the right direction. “I feel like among everyone working in the industry there’s a lot of optimism that this will balance out. It’s just going to take some time.”
This story originally appeared in the Dec. 10, 2022, issue of Billboard.
When the 2023 Grammy Award nominations were announced in mid-November, the Big Four categories included a slew of household names: Beyoncé, Adele, Harry Styles, Taylor Swift, Kendrick Lamar, Bad Bunny, Doja Cat, Lizzo. None of them were surprises. The Grammy noms were star-studded to reflect the past year in popular music: Following a pandemic-stricken period in which pop’s upper tier mostly held off on releasing new projects, 2022 was dominated by the A-listers, many of whom made good on the commercial promise of their returns and added new hits to their impressive résumés.
“We’ve had almost every global superstar release music within a 12- to 18-month span,” says Joe Hadley, Spotify global head of artist partnerships and audience. Some of that overabundance of big names can surely be chalked up to coincidence: Artists like Adele, Beyoncé and Lamar had been dormant as recording artists for over five years before finally having new albums ready within an eight-month span, for instance. Yet their respective returns were combined with prolific artists like Swift, Drake, Doja Cat and Jack Harlow releasing new material this year after an active 2021; bankable names like Styles, Bad Bunny, BTS, Lady Gaga and The Weeknd headlining a crowded touring field; and reliable hit-makers like Lizzo, Post Malone, Sam Smith and Nicki Minaj collecting more top 10 Billboard Hot 100 hits, making 2022 feel like a nonstop star parade.
“Anytime we have superstars putting out music, it’s good for the fans, for radio, for streaming,” says Mark Medina, program director for WHTZ (Z100) New York. (Indeed, recorded-music revenue in the United States grew 9% in the first half of 2022 compared with the same period in 2021, according to the RIAA.) Most of the major projects were spaced out across the calendar year, from Adele’s 30 last November to Styles’ Harry’s House in May to Swift’s Midnights in October, which gave each artist ample room to dominate listener attention and the cultural conversation. Even when their hits competed on the Billboard charts, streaming playlists and radio, as Medina says, “The more the merrier. You could never have too much good music from megastars, and we’ll always find a way to make that work.”
Part of the reason why pop music was so top-heavy this year is simple: The biggest artists delivered hits that matched their statures. Adele is no stranger to the peak of the Hot 100, but by spending 10 nonconsecutive weeks at No. 1, “Easy on Me” matched the longest chart reign of her career. Later, Beyoncé scored her first solo Hot 100 chart-topper in 14 years when “Break My Soul” powered to No. 1 upon the July release of Renaissance. And after folk-leaning singles like “Cardigan” and “Willow” summited the Hot 100 in 2020, Swift returned with the ultra-catchy “Anti-Hero,” which has spent its first six weeks at No. 1 and, Medina says, has “big, big mass appeal” at pop radio.
Meanwhile, Styles and Bad Bunny scored the biggest years of their respective careers thanks to chart-topping albums, multiple top 10 hits and mega-selling tours. For Styles, whose 2019 album, Fine Line, unlocked his potential at pop radio, “As It Was” spending a whopping 15 weeks at No. 1 — the longest leader by a solo artist in Hot 100 history — demonstrated just how inescapable the former One Direction member has become on his own. “With Harry, it all rolled out together: He had this career growth from album to album, a great pop record, streaming and research [numbers], celebrity,” says Medina. “Everything was there.”
And just as Styles’ studio output fueled 15-night residencies at venues like New York’s Madison Square Garden and Inglewood, Calif.’s Kia Forum, Bad Bunny’s massive Un Verano Sin Ti album — which has spent 12 nonconsecutive weeks at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 this year, the most of any project — helped the Puerto Rican star graduate from arenas to stadiums. He finished 2022 as the year’s top touring act, crushing his own record for highest-grossing Latin tour in Billboard Boxscore history as his World’s Hottest Tour grossed $373.5 million from 1.8 million tickets across 65 shows. “Bad Bunny absolutely leveled up on the road in a way that was pretty unique,” says Jesse Lawrence, founder and president of TicketIQ.
The end of 2022 doesn’t necessarily mean that pop’s biggest superstars are about to go into hibernation, though: With stadium tours from Swift, Bruce Springsteen, P!nk and Ed Sheeran on the books for next year, Lawrence believes that 2023 will be more significant for top-level tours than 2022 has been. “This time last year, there was still uncertainty about the pandemic dragging on into 2022, and there was too much risk for some of the megatours, which we’ll see in 2023,” says Lawrence. Plus, there’s one superstar whom Medina is “most interested in watching, as a fan and as a programmer,” for a potentially massive 2023: Rihanna, who will headline the Super Bowl halftime show in February and hopefully follow up the Black Panther: Wakanda Forever No. 2 single “Lift Me Up” with more new music.
Even if 2023 isn’t quite as jam-packed with new releases from A-listers, Hadley believes that some of the budding stars who broke through in 2022, including Steve Lacy and Zach Bryan — both of whom also recently scored Grammy noms — are poised to join that upper-class conversation. “I’m [always] thinking about superstar releases,” he says, “but I also think it’s a really exciting time for the next generation of superstars.”
This story originally appeared in the Dec. 10, 2022, issue of Billboard.
Popular music in 2022 is more diffuse than ever. With TikTok entrenched as the industry’s most effective (and maddening) marketing tool, streaming services continually democratizing listening and dulling the impact of conventional singles, and songs from years (if not decades) earlier resurfacing as contemporary hits, it’s increasingly rare to see new releases rule over all sectors of the pop landscape.
But this past year, that very rarity was the norm for Columbia Records. As listeners’ ever-evolving consumption habits pulled them every which way — and rarely toward the same handful of releases — the label dominated in a way that could be described as old-fashioned: with acclaimed full-length albums from established superstars that spawned massive hit singles and sold lots of physical records. The monoculture may be long dead, but Columbia delivered a pretty convincing flashback to it in 2022.
Evidence of the label’s all-encompassing impact was on clear display during the Grammy nominations announcement in November. Columbia claims three of the most-nominated artists for the awards in February 2023: Adele, Beyoncé and Harry Styles, who have a combined 22 nods. An album of the year win seems especially likely for the label, with Adele’s 30, Beyoncé’s Renaissance and Styles’ Harry’s House considered the three front-runners to take home the award, according to betting site GoldDerby.
And the albums’ commercial performances easily matched their industry plaudits. Each debuted at No. 1 on both the Billboard 200 and Top Album Sales charts during the same weeks that their respective lead singles (“Easy on Me,” “Break My Soul” and “As It Was”) also led the Billboard Hot 100, as part of their combined 27 weeks atop the chart.
Meanwhile, the gains Columbia made in 2021 with The Kid LAROI and Lil Nas X — artists who had found commercial success before Columbia signed them, but who the label helped establish as A-level hit-makers — carried over, with the radio success of their respective chart-topping singles “Stay” (with Justin Bieber) and “Industry Baby” (with Jack Harlow) spilling well into the new year and helping Columbia earn Billboard’s Top Radio Songs Label distinction for 2022. And the label kept an eye on the future, aggressively signing up-and-coming sensations like Nicky Youre (“Sunroof”), Megan Moroney (“Tennessee Orange”) and Yahritza y Su Esencia (“Soy El Unico”), helping those acts get footholds in the industry following their early TikTok virality.
“We’re always focused on two things, really: One, breaking new artists, and two, elevating the careers of superstars,” says Peter Gray, executive vp/head of promotion at Columbia. “We don’t control the timing of the calendar, or the tides or the moons or the stars — the material flows as it flows, and we’re certainly happy to deliver it as it comes. But to see both of those things happening simultaneously — turning new young talent into household names, and then finding superlative moments for the world’s biggest stars — are equally gratifying and exciting for our team.”
Captaining that team are chairman/CEO Ron Perry — installed in the position in 2018 to take over for his mentor Rob Stringer after the latter’s move to run parent company Sony Music Entertainment — and Jen Mallory, the label’s executive vp/GM. Though label veterans like Adele, Beyoncé and Styles predate the duo at Columbia, Perry and Mallory have helped to expand those artists’ reaches and keep them vital to the contemporary pop mainstream, while also signing artists like LAROI, Lil Nas X, “Boyfriend” breakout Dove Cameron and recent Latin Grammy album of the year winner Rosalía, developing them to new levels of stardom.
Described by his staff as a master of A&R, Perry is known as an executive with a unique understanding of artists’ perspectives. It helps that he’s a musician himself, as well as a producer and songwriter — he even landed production and writing credits on BTS’ Columbia-released 2021 megahit “Butter.” “He’s the only major-label chief who’s also a musician and truly in the studio,” Gray says.
He also brings an artist’s pure passion for music to his position as Columbia’s lead decision-maker. “My favorite thing in this entire job is getting a song from an artist that’s just incredible — that excites me more than anything else,” Perry says. “Things are changing, things are evolving, things are always going to be different. But at the end of the day, great music is the biggest factor.”
Meanwhile, Mallory is a marketing specialist, approaching Columbia’s album campaigns from a global perspective (previously, she served as Sony’s senior vp of international marketing). Sitting together and talking to Billboard, it’s also clear that while Perry takes the lead, he relies on Mallory to fill in the gaps in his thinking — even down to a single word. As he searches for the most precise adjective to describe the nature of musical successes in 2022, Mallory offers options — “Transient, like they don’t last very long? Ephemeral?” — as Perry racks his brain.
“There’s not really one answer to [who does what between them] — it’s very fluid, it’s by project,” says marketing senior vp Erika Alfredson. “But that’s the beauty of the two of them: They’re able to sort of see that in real time — and they’ve gotten in a great rhythm of being able to kind of know where each of their places is, and where they can be the most effective.”
Ron Perry photographed on November 22, 2022 at Columbia Records in New York.
Aaron Richter
The combination of Perry’s expert touch with artists and Mallory’s global marketing vision has allowed Columbia to both land and grow successful artists at all levels of the industry — and while their 2022 success has a classic feel, both remain fixated on securing the label’s future. “We’re constantly trying to evolve and be better, honestly,” Perry says. “And we’re always learning… we’re never satisfied with the way a thing is done. We always want to improve, and…”
“Improve the status quo,” Mallory finishes. “I mean listen, [the market] is just all so fractured now, it’s all so…”
“That’s the word I was looking for earlier — ‘fractured’!” Perry interjects.
When you start a year like this, do you get the feeling that it’s going to be one when everything aligns?
Jen Mallory: I mean, you never know. But all the artists that were [Grammy] nominated, and of course the top three that we’re talking about [Adele’s 30, Styles’ Harry’s House and Beyoncé’s Renaissance], they’re incredible bodies of work. So it’s thrilling.
Ron Perry: And it’s well-deserved. We’re happy with the outcome.
And in the meantime, you’re still aggressively going after new artists like Yahritza, Megan Moroney and Nicky Youre. Is it important to keep stockpiling up-and-coming artists while you’re enjoying those successes up top?
Perry: I definitely wouldn’t call it stockpiling. We’re very deliberate in what we sign. I don’t think we sign that much, to be honest with you. Columbia’s just an amazing place to be, both historically and currently. And I think — Rob [Stringer] taught me this — that people that come in here, we give them a lot of love, a lot of attention, a lot of strategy. And we’re pretty careful in who we sign, to make sure that’s the right fit.
I’ve heard that you’re very aggressive in going after the artists that you’re really excited about.
Perry: Yeah, when you’re passionate, and you want something… I’m very aggressive about doing that. If it’s someone that I feel belongs here, then I really want them to be here.
Those three artists — Yahritza, Moroney and Youre — all had early success on TikTok. Is that where most of Columbia’s artist scouting is happening these days?
Perry: All these platforms, it’s always changing. We’ll be talking about something else a couple years from now. At the end of the day, you have to sign incredible talent. The platforms will always change and the talent won’t. So if someone is working on TikTok, you want someone because they’re great. Because… look at Twitter right now. If something happens [to the platform], you want to be able to have a great artist no matter what the situation is. Not necessarily because they’re great on one platform.
I actually prefer to avoid a viral hit early on in someone’s career. It’s too difficult to overcome that, if it’s too early.
Nicky Youre’s management told Billboard that one of the main reasons they decided to come to Columbia is because you have such a great reputation for radio. Do you take pride in that? Is it something you feel you can offer to up-and-coming artists?
Perry: Well, first of all, I think our reputation is that we’re artist-first. And that comes from Rob Stringer. And Rob, who’s really my mentor, taught me how to go from being an A&R person to being a chairman/CEO, and that the reputation of this company is really the artistic integrity and the amazing artists that this company has had… since the beginning of this company until today.
Have we done well at radio? I think we’ve done great. Peter Gray has come in, and I think we’ve gone from No. 9 to No. 1 in market share over a four-year period. I call the shots of which record to go with. I think we have a very high batting average with what we go to radio with. And I think Peter has done a tremendous job across all formats to make those records a big success.
In 2022 and 2023, I’m not sure that radio’s the No. 1 selling point in an artist’s career. It is a selling point, it is part of the picture, but we offer a lot of strategic help, and creative support, and with so many things that go just beyond this one thing.
So when you’re talking to those younger artists, telling them what Columbia can offer them that they can’t do on their own, what are you telling them?
Perry: Um… Jen?
Mallory: I think, again, it goes back to artist-first, and I think Rob has set us both up for success. What we do is we help an artist amplify, and help an artist build a world, right? Obviously radio’s a part of it, international’s a part of it, figuring out how to create a kind of community, fan-building… But no one campaign is like the other, and it’s all bespoke to the artist. And at the end of the day, artists need to find teams that they feel comfortable around, that they feel understand them. I think, ultimately, we’ve built a team here that does that.
Jen Mallory photographed on November 22, 2022 at Columbia Records in New York.
Aaron Richter
When you talk about the evolving landscape, what’s the biggest evolution that you’ve noticed over the last year or two that has really changed the way you think about how business is done here, or just the industry in general?
Perry: Obviously in the past year or so, catalog [consumption] has gone up. And with TikTok, the older records are climbing the charts, so front-line records take a little less space right now.
So are you taking a more open-minded view to what could be promoted, or what could be considered a new release, in light of the fact that songs from five to seven years ago are basically being treated like new hits?
Perry: Absolutely. We put everything on the table.
Mallory: Good music is good music, right?
Perry: There’s really no rules anymore.
And is that exciting to you?
Perry: Oh, it’s exciting to us.
Mallory: Super exciting.
Perry: We talk about that all the time. I mean… listen, two to three years ago we started teasing records [online], and that was an exciting time. And now as it’s happening within the entire marketplace, we’re looking at the next thing. What’s the next thing that’s going to be groundbreaking? So we love being challenged, and right now, the market’s interesting.
Going back to the bigger artists that you’ve had this year — each of them had immediate impact. Big first-week numbers, not just on the albums side but on the songs side, with each of those albums having an accompanying Hot 100 No. 1 single the same week the album was No. 1. Is that something that’s a priority to Columbia, to come out of the gate screaming and capture those big moments and headlines with the first-week performance?
Mallory: I mean, with those three artists? Absolutely. Again, each one is different. I think all the work that was done on [Styles’ 2019 album] Fine Line for Harry brought his fans into Harry’s House in a big, big way. So we had a huge, seismic kind of launch. And “As It Was” is an incredible song, and the album is fantastic front-to-back. So all of that played a part in such a big week one.
Perry: And with Harry, Beyoncé, they’ve been in this company for a long time. And Rob Stringer is extremely involved creatively with them. Very helpful.
Mallory: And Beyoncé, I think the way that she welcomed people back outside [with “Break My Soul”] off the back of the pandemic — that song was just a celebration of being out of the mask and back outside and with people again — from a narrative perspective, that played a part in [its success]. I think this lives in the streets, this lives in culture. Not only with “Break My Soul,” but now again with “Cuff It” — it has been beautiful to watch.
I talked to a couple of people in your promotions and marketing departments, and they said, “Well, yeah, the first week’s great and important, but we’re looking at 12 to 18 months on an album.” Is that harder to do in 2022? What’s most important to keeping the album fresh for that long?
Mallory: I also think it’s about building a long-term narrative and strategy and world for a fan to celebrate and step into, right? With Harry, we’re continuing to roll [out] singles and new kinds of chapters of this Harry’s House that stay fresh every time. And same thing with Beyoncé. We have so much more coming, obviously. Even Adele, I mean [30] is a year old and she just launched [her Las Vegas residency] and was incredible.
Perry: The [residency debut] was insane. One of the best things I’ve ever seen.
Jen, you mentioned “Cuff It.” TikTok is very unpredictable as a marketing tool, but is it a powerful thing to have in your back pocket when it helps a song like “Cuff It” take off?
Mallory: I mean, it’s just exciting to see people celebrating this music the way they are, right? This album has landed in culture, and people have just made it their own, in a way. And that hasn’t been the case before. And this is all Beyoncé — this is rolling out exactly how she wanted it to.
Perry: TikTok is a mirror of culture, you know? And therefore, if you’re impacting culture, people on the app are going to use the sound.
You mention more coming with Beyoncé — I think everyone basically knows that to be the case but isn’t sure when or what or where. Is it challenging to keep that balance between fans paying attention and listening to the album but also waiting for more to come?
Perry: I think nine Grammy nominations kind of speak for themselves in terms of what’s happening right now with Beyoncé.
Is there anything you can tell me about what Beyoncé has coming up?
Perry: No. She’s nominated for the Grammys, though!
Do you look to your artists’ live shows to not only raise awareness of an album but also give a boost to their entire catalog? Are you looking at the numbers there?
Mallory: Yeah. I mean, specifically, I think Rosalía is a good one to talk about. As she made her way through Europe — she started in Spain, and we kept a close watch on how that was lifting [her 2022 album] Motomami. It had a tremendous effect, because it’s probably one of the best live shows I’ve ever seen. And so people saw it and then engaged with the music again.
Perry: Another show you have to see. We’re going to give you a whole list of shows! (Both laugh.)
Rosalía
Kevin Winter/GI
Let’s talk about some experiences you’ve had with artists who are still more up-and-coming. I find Dominic Fike particularly interesting — there were reports about a bidding war and a $4 million offer to sign him. And he has had success, but I’m sure you would agree that there’s still potential to be reached there. Meanwhile, he’s on maybe the hottest TV show in the world right now, Euphoria. How do you convert that sort of buzz and success into eyes on his music career?
Perry: I think 2023 will be the year that… musically, all the stars align [for Fike]. He’s on tour right now, his new music is unbelievable. And obviously the show has done a lot for him. He’s just naturally gifted in almost everything — and incredibly good-looking. I really believe that this is the year that he could be one of the big, big breakthroughs across the industry.
And you had success like that with The Kid LAROI last year. I think people were looking for him this year to take even a step further, and it has been a bit rocky — he had a high-profile management switch, and his single “Thousand Miles” did well but didn’t quite take him to the next level. How do you see his 2023?
Perry: LAROI’s got great new music that he’s working on as well. He toured for most of the year. He toured everywhere, really for the first time. “Stay” is one of the biggest songs of all time. I think you can’t really compete with that record. Just like Lil Nas X couldn’t really compete with “Old Town Road,” you know what I mean? And I’ve heard the [new] music, it’s unbelievable. And so I think sometimes we have perceptions that actually aren’t accurate. It’s a touring year, and he’s got a real fan base. And so I think that he’s going to come back big this year.
You’re known to be a sort of artist whisperer when it comes to dealing with younger acts. What’s the most important thing in communicating with a younger artist?
Perry: Communicating! That’s exactly what’s important. You communicate — again, our job is to support [the artists]. Not everything we deal with with them is positive. Not every record is going to work for every artist. So I think it’s having a long-term plan, having the artist knowing that the label is there for a long time to support them.
Mallory: Not just when you’re in cycle, right? So just making sure that there’s communication, always.
Perry: And not just when it’s positive results. And that’s why Jen is so great, because Jen has amazing relationships with our artists, our managers — and not just amazing ideas, but also execution.
When you’re both communicating with these artists, do you play different roles? Is there a contrasting style in your strengths at dealing with artists in these respects?
Perry: Um… (Indicates Mallory should answer first.)
Mallory: I mean, listen… he’s an incredible A&R guy. His superpower is the music. But he’s also very, very involved with everything else. He’s an incredibly creative person generally, so very much involved in marketing and digital, very good with numbers, the rest of it. So yes, he probably spends more time talking about the music, and I talk about other things… the rollout, the marketing, the strategy. But again, he’s not not involved with that — he’s very much involved with every facet of the campaigns.
Perry: And I play Jen music all the time, and she’s got great ears. We just have an amazing collaboration and friendship, and I think that it makes what we do and how much time we spend here really fun, honestly.
Mallory: I would agree with that… I mean, listen, we both have very strong personalities, I would say. But we see eye-to-eye on a lot of things. I think that’s accurate. I don’t think there’s a lot of infighting.
Can you remember a time when you disagreed on a best path forward with someone or something? Or philosophically…
Perry: I can’t recall anything. I can’t recall right now.
Mallory: No, I can’t recall right now. For the most part, we’re a really good team. Not “for the most part” — we are a really good team.
And who else is in the inner circle of trust when making the bigger decisions? Who do you lean on when it comes to areas where you don’t feel yourselves the strongest?
Perry: I think we’re really good at collaborating with our senior staff. The reality is I could get ideas from really anywhere.
Mallory: That’s a benefit of the culture here… to his point, ideas can come from anywhere. There maybe isn’t that same sort of hierarchy that there used to be in an old-school system. We very much want to hear from every person. And we play to people’s strengths.
What are you looking forward to in the future? What trends are we going to see go even further, or what are we not talking about yet that we will be in years to come?
Perry: Future trends. Wow. Well, I have ideas, as we always have ideas, but I will not give them away. Because they’re our ideas. (Laughs.) So we’re always thinking about the future. We’re always trying to do things differently. We’re always trying to innovate. We’re trying to always think ahead. I think what we’ve accomplished here as a company in the past several years has shown that.
Mallory: I mean, it’s all so niche now. Niche communities, right? So we have to figure out how to knit those communities together and create importance and a long-term narrative and build out worlds. And that’s what we love to do here, and we have so many incredible artists that we get to work with to do that. But there’s always going to be disruption. Every year, we’re saying, “What’s going to be around the next bend?”
This story will appear in the Dec. 10, 2022, issue of Billboard.
Three years ago, Rosa Linn was writing songs in her free time and dreaming of a career in music. But she never expected a performance at a local village festival in her native Armenia would be her ticket to stardom.
Her standout delivery of an original rock song, backed by her band of friends, floored talent scouts in the crowd from record label Nvak Collective. Soon after, the team invited her to attend the company’s upcoming songwriting camp for women. “We really recognize the fact that talent is equally distributed — but opportunity isn’t,” says Tamar Kaprelian, Nvak Collective co-founder and Rosa Linn’s manager since last July, when the rising singer-songwriter also signed to the label.
Kaprelian says that while Rosa Linn was more introverted than the other songwriters at the camp, her personality beamed through the lyrics she wrote independently after songwriting lessons. When Rosa Linn returned to class one day, she presented the first verse of a folksy pop song about hopelessly ruminating over a romantic interest. That early draft became “Snap,” the global crossover hit that has catapulted her career and led to her first Billboard No. 1.
Inspired by her “first real love” in 2017 during her time as an exchange student in the United States, Rosa Linn returned home to Armenia feeling hung up. “I wrote about my readjustment process and mental state,” the 22-year-old says. “It was a very hard period for me. It’s just about life, and I think that’s why people relate to it.” Adds Kaprelian: “She came in with those deep lyrics, and I was like, ‘There’s something special here.’ ”
Over the next two-and-a-half years Rosa Linn fleshed out the rest of the song ahead of its official release this March. She says that the final product is “very close” to the original demo, and includes vocals she cut in a hotel room, as well as her own guitar playing, “even though I’m not the greatest guitar player. That’s why the song has a vulnerable feeling. It’s honest and not perfect.”
Kaprelian sent the track to local radio stations, but was determined to get the song noticed on a larger level, eventually submitting it as an applicant to represent Armenia at the Eurovision Song Contest 2022. Rosa Linn was ultimately chosen for the televised music competition this May (besting a finalist entry submitted by one of her friends), where she performed “Snap” to 161 million people across Europe. She placed 20th.
“We really saw it as a steppingstone,” Kaprelian reflects. “When she didn’t rank well, we could have been like, ‘We tried. Let’s move on to another song.’ Instead, we decided to double down on ‘Snap’ and I know that it might not have seemed smart, but we really went hard in the TikTok strategy.”
Rosa Linn (left) and Tamar Kaprelian photographed on November 11, 2022 in Malibu, Calif.
Martha Galvan
Turns out it was the smartest thing they could have done. Rosa Linn began “experimenting” with different videos on the platform, including acoustic performances, remixes and POV-style clips showing the behind-the-scenes action at Eurovision. And after a fan-made, sped-up version of the track was uploaded to TikTok, “Snap” began to go viral.
More than one million videos were uploaded to the platform using the quicker, pitched-up version of “Snap,” with users showing everything from favorite recipes to sweet moments with their pets, as well as participating in a wholesome trend in which people highlighted the “color palette” of their hair, skin and eyes. Its popularity on TikTok pushed “Snap” up the Billboard charts, leading to its Billboard Hot 100 debut at No. 97 on the Sept. 3-dated chart. It has since reached a No. 82 high and spent seven weeks at No. 1 on Adult Alternative Airplay. “After [seeing the song do well], that’s when I knew it was real,” Rosa Linn says. “‘Snap’ gave me the best and most productive year of my life.”
It also led to a major-label deal with Columbia Records, which Rosa Linn signed in August. The label has already set the artist up with top songwriters and producers, including a recent session in Los Angeles with Diane Warren and Dan Wilson. In late October, she released her follow-up single “WDIA (Would Do It Again)” with fellow Eurovision star Duncan Laurence — and then capped the month with her late-night television debut on The Late Late Show with James Corden. Rosa Linn is now in the process of curating her sound to represent her artistry, with hopes of releasing a debut studio album. “I’m very picky,” she says, noting she has no timeline in mind for her full-length. “I wrote a lot of songs in the past three years, but none of them got released because [then] I would write another and it was better. This period is me growing as a songwriter and trying to improve.”
“I’m always going to stay personal and honest,” she continues. “My music is a representation of what I’ve gone through. Coming from Armenia and now living my dream is unbelievable.”
Rosa Linn photographed on November 11, 2022 in Malibu, Calif.
Martha Galvan
A version of this story will appear in the Dec. 10, 2022, issue of Billboard.
In the time since Meghan Trainor dropped her third studio album Treat Myself in January 2020, her life has completely transformed. That October, she revealed that she was pregnant with her first child. She released A Very Trainor Christmas the same month, and early the following year, the 28-year-old Nantucket native welcomed her son, Riley, with her husband, Spy Kids star Daryl Sabara.
Explore
Explore
See latest videos, charts and news
See latest videos, charts and news
Now a mother, Trainor says that she has learned to focus more on “what actually matters” and being her most authentic self for her new baby. That has involved spending loads of time on TikTok, posting casual videos dancing with her family or sharing personal and hilarious tidbits about her life. “I’ve been more real and open than ever. I even talk about my love for MiraLAX online,” she jokes to Billboard.
The platform has also boosted one of her biggest hits in the past few years: her fresh take on doo-wop, “Made You Look,” first began to spread across TikTok thanks to a dance trend started by users Brookie and Jessie that has since become inescapable. Trainor has gotten in on the fun, and to date, nearly two million user-created videos on the platform have utilized the track as a backing sound. “Made You Look” reaches a new No. 24 high on the Billboard Hot 100 dated Dec. 3, marking Trainor’s highest-charting hit since “Me Too” reached No. 13 in 2016.
Below, the pop star tells Bilboard about the details behind “Made You Look” — including how she drew inspiration from a familiar hit to create the song — how music has changed over her decade-long career and what being a mother has taught her.
How did “Made You Look” come together?
It was one of the last songs I wrote for the album. I knew I needed my self-confident banger that I always do on my albums, and I was really studying “All About That Bass.” I was like, “Why did this work so well?” I think everyone just loves to sing along to a song that’s like, “I am awesome, I am the sh-t, I am hot.” Especially after having a baby, I was already struggling to love my body. I was covered in a C-section scar crossing over all my stretch marks and I was really struggling to like myself, but also like myself in front of my own husband.
My therapist had me stand in front of the mirror naked every day and the first day, I was shaking and hated it. By the third day, I noticed things that I liked about my body and I was like, “Wow, this is so powerful.” So, I was in the shower one day and I was like, “Yeah, they could dress me in all these fancy clothes, but when I’m at my grungiest and at home, that’s when my husband is like, ‘You’re the prettiest girl in the world. You’re the hottest.’ ” I wanted to put that in a song, and I wrote the chorus in the shower.
Your C-section scar is how you gave birth to your son, though. That’s so special.
Exactly. I was at the point where I would say to my husband, “Please don’t look at it. Don’t look at my scar!” He’s like, “That’s my favorite mark there ever was. That’s where my boy came out of. That’s the most special thing in the world!” I had never thought about it like that.
How is making music different for you since having your son?
It’s more important now. I guess I’m also more mature, because I’m older and been through more, so now, I’m at an age and point in my life where I’m like, “Here’s what actually matters and here’s what doesn’t. I’m not going to stress anymore.” I really had to work with my therapist on what I can and can’t control. These stretch marks are here, [I have to] get used to them and learn to love them because I can’t control whether they go away or not. In my songwriting, I try to put in that “let it go” vibe.
What was your reaction when “Made You Look” started blowing up on TikTok?
I was so surprised, because it’s so hard to get a song to be successful on TikTok. You don’t want to be out there every day like, “Check out my new song!” I like being vulnerable on that app, and I feel weird being on there just to promote my music. This song was important to me, though, and I knew it would help people with their confidence.
When I saw the dance from the TikTokers Brookie and Jessie, [it] was so fun and they made it look so cool. It was hard to learn, but now that I know it, I do it literally every day. I love the dance so much. It blew up and popped off, but now I see people doing other stuff to the song. I saw a girl who was learning how to be a chef, someone practicing how to cut a vagina while giving birth and a horse giving birth to my song. That’s the coolest part of TikTok. The whole world is on there.
What are some of the biggest differences you see in music trends and on the Hot 100 over the course of your career?
Obviously, TikTok rules the world. For the last album, I was like, “I’ll do every piece of promo you want me to do. If this works, I’ll do it.” But it didn’t work. So, for this album, I made a priority to do “TikTok days” and make content. This app allows for a whole day of fun work for us, and it doesn’t feel like work. I get to be at home and make videos that go viral, and it still helps my music and connect with strangers all over the world. I went live on TikTok this morning and people from Ethiopia were in there. People are like, “Hi from South Dakota! Hi from South Africa!” And I’m like, “Oh my God!” It’s just the best app to connect with everyone globally.
I’ve been more real and open than ever. I even talk about my love for MiraLAX online. The best part of that is that it seems to be what everyone likes. They like me being myself. That’s easy to do for me, rather than [being] like, “Oh, I’m a celebrity that no one can touch, and I wear Gucci and Prada. Don’t talk to me.” It’s easier and more fun this way. Finally, for the first time in a long time, I really, really love my job again. I love promoting music again.
It also feels like you found a renewed love for music on Takin’ It Back.
Yeah! My last album I was chasing radio so hard and was going more pop because I was trying to run away from the doo-wop stuff. I was like, “No, I can do all the genres! I love pop! I love dance!” Then, I was like, “Alright, let’s do the doo-wop. Let’s give the people what they want.” I realized, then, my love for it. I wrote the verses of “Made You Look” over lunch while laughing. We were like, “Oh, it should be, ‘Call up your chiropractor just in case your neck breaks from looking at me.’ ” We were having a ball.
One thing that definitely hasn’t changed through your albums are your messages of empowerment.
I’m trying to do that for everyone out there. The best reward is [that] I’ve been getting letters from fans that start with, “Your music helped me so much growing up.” That’s better than any compliment ever.
What are you excited for with the holidays coming up? You’re a big Christmas fan and even have a holiday album.
Yes, my decorations are already up and I put up the tree. I’m also trying to get pregnant. I’m trying to have four kids and get them out. I don’t know if we’ll tour next year, because touring is so exhausting and brutal still.
Especially if you do get pregnant.
I mean, I don’t know if I’m as cool as Cardi B. The icon that’s like, “Sure I can tour and perform and do SNL pregnant.” I don’t know if I’m as strong as her. I remember being pregnant and being like, “I really should lay down.” I was pooped, so I don’t know if I want to sign up for a tour and then get pregnant while doing that. It’s a big debate, but if something happens and I can open for someone or do a short run, I would love to do something like that. I also want to put out a book about pregnancy. After giving birth, I feel like I can do anything. So, I’m just picking new goals and making new dreams.
What’s the biggest thing you learned through motherhood?
Mom guilt is [a] very similar pain to struggling with loving yourself. I’m a very hard critic on myself in everything I do. With loving myself and music and my talent, I’m my worst critic. I noticed that mom guilt is a very similar feeling. Immediately, I had the worst mom guilt because I started working right away and I was like, “Oh, he’s saying ‘dada’ first and it’s probably because he doesn’t know me!” That’s not the case at all. I had to learn, “Hey, be easy on yourself. You’re doing the best you can and that’s all that matters.” Watch out for mom guilt, and just know that I have it too and I’m working on it.
A version of this story originally appeared in the Nov. 19, 2022, issue of Billboard.
It’s ostensibly a big morning for Greg Kurstin. As we speak in the sunlit lounge of his Hollywood recording studio, the Grammy nominations are being announced — and as is often the case, the veteran producer’s name is connected with a few very big artists expected to make significant showings.
But if Kurstin is at all nervous, he doesn’t show it. Whether out of politeness or commitment to his “maybe boring” daily routine — drop his two kids at school, come back to the studio, make hits, get home in time for dinner — Kurstin, 53, neither tunes in to the broadcast nor checks his phone as the nominees are announced.
Instead, Kurstin has the same focus as always: the music that got him here. A lifelong pianist, he amalgamates his considerable abilities on a range of instruments, his love of jazz and his history as both a session musician and band member (Geggy Tah, The Bird and the Bee) into an improvisational accompanist’s approach to pop music. The artists who’ve called on him as producer — a wide range including Paul McCartney, Sia, Beck, Halsey, Foo Fighters and Maren Morris — look to Kurstin not for a distinct, signature sound, but for his ability to bring out the best within them.
The most famous of those collaborators, of course, is Adele. Since her 2015 album, 25, and its smash “Hello,” she and Kurstin have had a prolific creative relationship — one that continued in 2022 with 30. He co-wrote, produced or co-produced six of the 12 tracks on the album, which spent six weeks at No. 1 on the Billboard 200. One of those was lead single “Easy on Me,” which tied “Hello” for Adele’s longest No. 1 run on the Billboard Hot 100 (10 weeks) and led Radio Songs for 15 weeks — her personal best and the sixth-longest in the chart’s history.
All of that went a long way toward making Kurstin Billboard’s top Hot 100 producer of 2022. And by the end of our conversation, the nine-time Grammy winner (including two for producer of the year, non-classical) will rack up another five nominations: best pop vocal album; song, record and album of the year (all for 30); and best country album (for Morris’ Humble Quest, which he produced). But here in the studio — emitting cool dad vibes in jeans and a T-shirt — he’s immersed in the 9-to-5 that produces that award-worthy work, insulated from much of the buzz it has generated.
“Sometimes I’ll do a song with an artist,” Kurstin says, “and I’ll be like, ‘I wonder if that song did well?’ And then you go see their show and it’s like, ‘Oh, these people know the song!’ ”
It seems like you have the luxury of choice, in terms of artists you agree to work with. Besides your track record of hits, what do you think they’re looking for from you?
I’d like to think that they’re coming to me because I want to support their vision and learn where they’re going musically and try to achieve that somehow, to bring out the best song they could possibly need at this point in their career. Everyone is different. A lot of people I work with are people I’ve worked with before, over and over, and so there’s a lot of history there, too.
You’ve said that artists come to you for the support you provide during the process, rather than for a particular sound.
I don’t think I necessarily have a sound or a particular style that’s recognizable. People have said to me, “I could tell you did that song,” and I’m like, “Really?” I just bring it all back to when I was just a side musician accompanist working with a singer. I would try to support what they’re doing and not be a distraction, but to bring out the best emotion by finding the right chords and the right arrangements. I translated that to production, in a way.
Adele’s songs in particular are so intensely personal. To what extent are you helping her unpack that emotion?
I’m definitely there to navigate that emotional terrain. I have to find the right sequence of chords or the beginning of a song that ignites something in her and whatever lyric she’s wanting to write that day. So, I will search. Sometimes it takes a long time; sometimes it happens immediately; sometimes it’s at the very end of the day. Usually, I’ll just improvise, trying to imagine where she wants to go.
Are there conversations happening as you work?
We don’t really discuss it… I get on the piano and then I’ll get a sense of, “Oh, she likes this little bit I’m playing right now,” so I’ll stay there. Sometimes I do that for an hour or two while she’s formulating lyrics, and I just know I don’t want to move; I don’t want to change anything, because if she’s writing, I feel like it’s going well. So I’ll stay where I am. It’s like a meditation. Also, it’s amazing how much she remembers — just a little seed we started like, a year ago, she’ll say, “What about that little thing we did?”
Is the pressure around a new Adele album something you have to try to tune out?
Yeah. I mean, it’s so hard for me to tune it out. It definitely stresses me out, in a very positive way. There’s excitement, but there’s also just the feeling of like, “I don’t want to be responsible for something not performing.” That’s just me. I probably would take it personally, which I shouldn’t, but a lot of us artists have issues where our self-worth is wrapped up in our performance. But I try to stay grounded and healthy and just know it’s out of my control… Grammy time brings up a lot of those feelings again, because the attention on the album starts coming back.
Despite your accomplishments, you keep a low profile. What’s your day-to-day life like?
My days are pretty normal. I mean, aside from that I work with these extraordinary artists. I take the kids to school, then go to the studio. I just focus on the thing I’m working on, try to do a good job with that, then try to get home by dinnertime. That’s pretty much my life, which is kind of unusual in my line of work. A lot of producers work on the opposite time frame. When I’m going to bed, they’re starting.
For me to be healthy, I have to have a schedule, a structure. The way my mind works, it will start to race, and if I work too late, then I have trouble sleeping and that messes up my next day. Artists are happy to adapt to working that schedule. I want to do a great song for them and send them on their way so they can have a life and go out at night to do whatever they want to do. I’m totally friends with a lot of artists I work with… but I don’t want to keep someone longer than they want to be there.
You mentioned the anticipation you feel around Grammy season. What is your relationship with the awards?
It’s a crazy experience to be invited or involved, and I know I won’t be invited forever. There will be a point where people will be like, “OK, you can go now.” (Laughs.)
Eventually they’ll show you out the back door.
Exactly. Like, “We’ve had enough of you.” While it’s happening, I’m just going for the ride. It feels very good for your work to be recognized. I don’t take it lightly when people are voting for stuff I’ve worked on. I have fun when I go, although it makes me nervous when I’m there, because I hate speaking in the microphone, but that’s also a good problem to have.
Where do you keep the nine Grammys you’ve already won?
They’re in the bedroom, kind of staring at me. If I’m in a bad mood, I can look up and be like, “Come on! Chin up.”
All that said, do you want to check and see if you’ve been nominated this year?
(Looks at phone.) OK, I got best pop vocal album, song of the year, album of the year, country album and record of the year. So there’s that!
This story will appear in the Dec. 10, 2022, issue of Billboard.
Musicals, whether onstage or onscreen, take time — lots of time — to develop. For Lin-Manuel Miranda, the story of 2022’s Encanto really began six years ago, on opening weekend for a different Disney animated musical, Moana. Miranda was a late addition to that film’s three-person musical team, and he had seen “how seriously and faithfully [Disney] took the responsibility of representing a culture we don’t see onscreen a lot” — in Moana’s case, that of the Polynesian islands — and “making sure that part of the world would be proud,” he recalls. So he told Tom MacDougall, then executive vp of music for Disney Animation and Pixar, “Listen, I know you guys have some Latin-themed things up your sleeve. If there’s going to be a Disney Latina princess, I’ve been training all my life!”
That opening weekend, MacDougall cryptically told Miranda: “You’ll be there from the beginning on the next one.” And with Encanto, he kept his word. “We don’t just go celebrity to celebrity for people to write these shows,” says MacDougall, now president of Walt Disney Music. “But there was a project being talked about that was going to happen in Latin America, and I said, ‘Hey, Lin wants to do this, we love him — what would a full Lin show look like start to finish?”
The answer: a historic hit. Miranda’s eight songs for the Encanto soundtrack all charted on the Billboard Hot 100, leading him to spend 15 weeks at No. 1 on the Hot 100 Songwriters chart and to ultimately be named Billboard’s top Hot 100 songwriter of 2022. Much of that was thanks to the unlikely and explosive leader of the pack: the intricate, multicharacter showstopper “We Don’t Talk About Bruno,” which spent five weeks at No. 1 and, according to Billboard’s GOAT methodology, is now the biggest Disney song of all time.
Of course, don’t tell that to the “Surface Pressure” hive, whose passion for strongwoman Luisa’s reggaetón-inflected solo pushed it to a No. 8 peak, or to the teary masses who sent the poetic “Dos Oruguitas” (sung entirely in Spanish by Sebastián Yatra) to No. 2 and No. 36 peaks, respectively, on Hot Latin Songs and the Hot 100. “It’s pretty unorthodox in terms of a musical,” MacDougall says of Encanto. “That ‘Bruno’ would become one of the most popular songs of all time, that all the songs would be in the top 100 — we would have never expected it.”
But if that sounds like the foundation for a new blueprint for Disney blockbusters, think again. Miranda, 42, insists there’s no formula for Encanto-level success, paraphrasing the late Broadway legend Stephen Sondheim: “Surprise is the thing you’re chasing. If you can bottle surprise, you can have a career in this business.”
You were in the throes of writing Encanto’s music in spring 2020. What was it like essentially putting this soundtrack together in lockdown?
In retrospect, I do think some of the lockdown seeps into the songwriting. There’s a reason “Surface Pressure” and “We Don’t Talk About Bruno,” which were written in April and May of 2020, respectively, resonate in a different way. At the core of “Surface Pressure” is this question of, how do I keep my family safe — and who am I if I can’t? I think that’s a variation of what every parent felt then. And then “Bruno” — I was locked up with my in-laws. There is a subtext there of, “What are we allowed to talk about in front of your mother?” (Laughs.) My brother-in-law was living with us at the time — he works in real estate, and we barely saw him, he’d just work in his corner, he’d join us for dinner, he’d go back to his corner. When I showed him the rough storyboard and the song started, he was like, “Is this about me? Am I the uncle in the walls?” (Laughs.)
The level of input from the larger creative team is pretty high in the world of animation. How did that typically play out?
Our call was every Friday night at 9 p.m. my time, which meant I could tuck in my kids and then wake myself back up and do the call. I felt comfortable bringing in half songs — like, “Here’s the first two verses of ‘Bruno.’ Is this a good direction? Should I keep going?” I don’t think there’s one song in this where I was like, “This is it, it’s done.”
Well, other members of the creative team do talk about “Bruno” as if you started playing it for them fully formed. What’s your side of that story?
I knew the vibe for it very quickly. This was a song that was my pitch: Can we please do a family gossip number? I knew it was just going to be like (Miranda plays the piano bassline.), which felt very Afro-Latino, rhythmic, spooky. The challenge was to get something simple yet [distinctive] enough that you could put a lot of different stories on top of it. It was really one long night of writing it.
You have a longtime friendship with Bobby Lopez [who, with wife Kristen Anderson-Lopez, wrote the music for Frozen, Frozen II and Coco]. Does someone like him provide a kind of creative support system when you’re working on a project like Encanto?
You learn quickly that there’s very few people you can talk to about this kind of gig. My friendship with Bobby goes beyond songwriting — we went to school together, he’s been a mentor to me my whole career. There was a moment when I was struggling with something in Mirabel’s song “Waiting on a Miracle,” and it was this really specific shop talk of like, “I think this is the right song for the right moment but it’s not doing this thing you’re so good at that I want it to do — it’s not lifting off at the end in the way I want it to.” So I sent it to Bobby and Kristen and they were like, “Give us a couple hours,” and they got on a Zoom with me and were like, “Go up a whole step not a half step, have her sing this note.” It was a very music theory mathematical thing and it made all the difference in the world. That’s the kind of thing you can only ask someone who’s been in this space before you and knows the lay of the land.
“Bruno” is now the biggest Disney song of all time. What are your personal top Disney songs of all time?
No. 1 is “Under the Sea.” I mean, it’s like Sebastian making the case for a way of life and presenting us with a world so much more beautiful than our own! I wanted to go f–king live under the sea! “Out There,” from Hunchback [of Notre Dame] — Stephen Schwartz wrote the lyrics. “Into the Unknown” from Frozen II, that song is outrageous in setup and execution. “When She Loved Me” by Randy Newman — Toy Story 2 is among my favorite movies of all time, full stop. That was really a big inspiration for “Dos Oruguitas.” And I agree with everyone on the internet about the entirety of Tarzan. You know that meme that’s like, “Phil Collins didn’t have to go that hard but he did.” (Miranda starts belting “Strangers Like Me.”) Well, he did, and we’re all the better for it. It should not go that hard! (Laughs.)
You’ve admitted that you didn’t think “Bruno” would become the big Encanto hit. Why do you think it did?
I didn’t think it was going to be a big song because group numbers never are — with the exception of “Summer [Nights]” from Grease. But I also think there’s something to the fact that music has stratified to a big extent, and TikTok is a big part of the reason this song was such a hit. Every verse and chorus of this is like a bite-sized TikTok number. I didn’t have TikTok when I wrote it, but you realize after the fact, “Oh, if Camilo’s your favorite guy, you can listen to that bit,” and each bit became its own kind of hit. It was amazing that sections of “Bruno” were becoming popular.
“Dos Oruguitas” soundtracks Encanto’s tearjerking montage. Was that always the plan?
I mean, that was the hope. Some of it is what it isn’t: It isn’t a moment of Abuela singing to Mirabel, because Abuela singing, “Your grandfather was shot” — that’s a trauma too deep to sing. I looked at the imagery in the film of the butterfly that leads them to the miracle, and I had the idea of these two caterpillars in love and the change that has to happen. You have to undergo metamorphosis and trauma to become who you are, and you have to trust that you’ll still be yourself on the other side of whatever hard things come your way. And once I had that, I wrote it pretty quickly — though the speed of my Spanish is not the speed of my English, so it took longer to find the right words.
Then there’s “Surface Pressure.” Were you aware of all the people rooting for it to surpass “Bruno” on the charts?
I love it. I mean, there’s not a lot of precedent for that tune. In my head I was trying to cross a really tough reggaetón song with like, “[The] Lovecats” by The Cure, the quietest vocals I can imagine on a pop song. I think we had the song before we cast the role, but the drawing of Luisa existed, so I knew she’d have a deeper voice, and I was like, “Please, please, please find me an alto.” And Jess Darrow has such a wonderful and distinctive voice. The character never doesn’t sound like herself, and I love that about it.
To me it’s the most recognizably Lin song in this movie. It just feels like what naturally comes out of you. Was it that organic for you to write?
I don’t know…what I sound like? Ask any composer, they don’t know what their moves are. But I guess that’s what I sound like! I think the internal rhyminess of the verses and choruses, for sure. It was an early one to try to write; I was feeling my way towards it in an organic way. The hardest one is always the “I Want” song. Mirabel’s was originally called “I’m More Than What I’m Not,” and it was very poppy. It was a bop! But it was just not right.
Is there one song that you wish found a wider audience?
I would be insane to complain about any of them. But I’ll tell you, my expectations were upended. My expectation was that “Colombia, Mi Encanto” would be the easiest song to pull out of the story — it’s just a love letter to Colombia, it namechecks towns, it’s Carlos Vives singing it — so I just thought, “Maybe at soccer stadiums they’ll play this!” [It peaked at No. 100 on the Hot 100.] To see the character-iest, most involved-in-the plot songs rise to the top was an amazing and welcome surprise.
Does Encanto’s chart success feel like a unicorn situation? Or can it serve as a model for how Disney thinks about animated musicals in the future?
Well, I think once you think you have a template, you’re dead meat. Look at the two songs that had the most success: what people embraced was what’s new. As long as Disney’s musicals can continue to push on the template of what a Disney musical can be, I think they’ll be a success. It’s when we get hip to it — “Oh, here comes the sidekick song” — that we feel like we’ve seen it before. I think the lesson is to find the musical moments we haven’t seen before, and that’s true of theater as well. I know I’m here because Howard Ashman was here, and he felt like musical theater had a lot to teach animated movies about how music and animation could coexist. Everything I’m doing builds on what he knew and practiced with Alan Menken during that golden era I was lucky enough to be a kid during. And our job is to continue to push that envelope.
There is a rumor that a demo exists of you singing all 10 “Bruno” parts. Will we ever hear it?
Uh, yes, it exists — I mean, there’s me demos of all of them. But I also know why you want it, you jerks! You want to make funny TikToks with my face on them, and I will not give you the satisfaction! So they will stay on my computer, thank you very much. You want to make your funny little memes! (Laughs.) I will not be here for your meme-ery.
This story will appear in the Dec. 10, 2022, issue of Billboard.
In early September, a 23-second clip posted to Twitter teased that Kelela’s five-year break from music was soon coming to an end — and sent fans into a frenzy. The clip comprised several fan tweets begging for her comeback; one, plucked from the opening sequence of the animated series Avatar: The Last Airbender, characterized it best: “When the world needed her most… she vanished.”
After debuting in 2013 with her mixtape Cut 4 Me, the elusive, genre-bending singer upped the ante every two years, releasing her Hallucinogen EP in 2015 and then her critically acclaimed debut album, Take Me Apart, in 2017. Yet as the concurrent crises of the coronavirus pandemic and the resurgent Black Lives Matter movement took hold in 2020, Kelela says, “I think the uprising kind of led me into a place of wanting to rethink this whole f–king thing and, quite frankly, wanting to create a more liberatory model for myself.”
The 39-year-old Ethiopian-American artist born Kelela Mizanekristos has always been openly critical of the music business, calling out colorism and other issues in interviews. But what was happening in the world helped her feel more galvanized to free herself from business relationships that she felt didn’t advocate strongly enough for her artistry. In 2020, she wrote letters to the various people and companies she had business with explaining her needs, and based upon their responses — or lack thereof, from some — she cut ties, including with Sony Music Publishing. (The company responded the same day, a source says.) “Because we had an uprising, Black people now have more permission to be like, ‘I don’t like that,’ ” she says. “I am a darker-skinned, Black femme who makes left-of-center R&B/electronic music. I need to work with people who get it.”
Kelela’s music is uniquely situated between electronic dance and alternative R&B, with the music of her childhood in Washington, D.C. — ’90s R&B, soul, jazz and world, like Ethiopia’s Mahmoud Ahmed and South Africa’s Miriam Makeba — serving as key influences. She became a fixture within the rave community for the way in which she paired retro R&B vocals with futuristic club beats — and kicked it up a notch when she recruited Black queer musicians like Kaytranada and Ahya Simone to warp her lead vocals on a Take Me Apart remix album in 2018.
Kelela photographed on November 3, 2022 at Rein Studios in Brooklyn.
Jai Lennard
Throughout her career, Kelela has felt she has had to straddle two audiences: Black fans who are mesmerized by her lush R&B vocals and white fans who are entranced by her club production, thus becoming “a point of discovery for both,” she says. “That’s how I was always thinking about it.” With her long-awaited second full-length, Raven — due Feb. 10, 2023, on her longtime independent label home, Warp Records — she plans to “service the people who are there in the front row and have always been there,” says Kelela. “Queer Black people.”
On Raven, Kelela offers poignant reflections about not allowing herself to be swallowed up in her sorrow but rather celebrating her self-renewal and relishing in her resilience. “As a person who has always felt outside, there’s a deep catharsis in finding an entire social network of people who are also on the outside and making a group based off that marginalization,” she says. “When I service my immediate community, I service myself. Before, I was taking that for granted. I would be like, ‘Those people are going to always be there no matter what I do.’ And I think that’s anti-Black, or there’s some internalized sh-t there that I don’t like, and that’s not serving me, that doesn’t help me.”
She explains, while reading aloud from Wikipedia, that ravens “often act as psychopomps” known to mediate between two worlds, an idea she feels speaks to her own music. On Raven — made of self-recorded demos she later engineered herself along with different producers around the world — the moments where her vocals aren’t present can be the most powerful. In their absence, a specific blend of sensual pop-R&B balladry with atmospheric drum’n’bass beats comes into focus. Being Black is not a monolithic experience, and Kelela’s music cannot be consumed that way either. “My pursuit is to get you introduced to club music and then be able to enjoy it when there’s not a vocal guiding you every time,” she says. “You can see that I let go more.”
Kelela photographed on November 3, 2022 at Rein Studios in Brooklyn.
Jai Lennard
Beyoncé shared in that mission with her latest album, Renaissance, a dance collection with a diva house lead single, “Break My Soul,” which became the artist’s first solo No. 1 on the Billboard Hot 100 in 14 years. The release ushered legions of Black people worldwide onto the dancefloor; Kelela believes it also provided newcomers a “reference point” to her music, which they might have overlooked even just a few years ago. “I’m so happy someone like B would help Black people own this music that has been obscured and not perceived as Black,” she says.
Ahead, Kelela confirms she’ll release a Raven remix set because, like last time, it allows her to not stress about the album version of each track. And she knows her community will always be ready for more. “Queer Black people have the range — and no one else has been having the range.”
Kelela photographed on November 3, 2022 at Rein Studios in Brooklyn.
Jai Lennard
This story will appear in the Nov. 19, 2022, issue of Billboard.