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Back in January 2020, singer-songwriter Ryan Tedder was jogging through the flats of West Hollywood while talking to his friend and investment partner Abe Burns when they struck upon an idea.
“What if you could take tranches of your favorite songs and securitize them, go through the [U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC)], invest in your favorite songs and trade them on the public market?” he recalls telling Burns. “Why can’t fans do this?”
The OneRepublic frontman and prolific songwriter behind megahits like Beyoncé’s “Halo,” Adele’s “Rumour Has It” and Leona Lewis’ “Bleeding Love” is less well known for his investing acumen. But over the last decade or so, Tedder has proved to be a successful venture capital and commercial real estate investor who owns stakes in lucrative properties like the sites of a 24-hour Walgreens on the Las Vegas strip and American Airlines’ call center headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas. “That’s all well and good,” Tedder says, but to be able to share in some of the greatest pop songs — that he didn’t write himself? That would be thrilling.
Music lovers like Tedder will soon be able to do just that. Beginning Sept. 12, music fans and everyday investors can reserve stakes in the royalty streams of more than 100 songs — written by Tedder; Diplo and the trio he co-founded, Major Lazer; and rock band American Authors — through a new music investing platform, JKBX (pronounced “jukebox”). This initial batch includes songs performed by Beyoncé, Adele, Taylor Swift, Colbie Caillat and Ed Sheeran and features by Justin Bieber, Travis Scott, Ellie Goulding, Jonas Brothers, MØ and Trippie Redd.
Like dividend-paying stocks, royalty shares acquired on JKBX’s platform will give investors the right to a slice of the income a specific song generates. The types of royalty streams offered — for example, publishing, recording and whether there are geographic boundaries attached — will vary by song and be disclosed in each offering.
Founded by Sam Hendel and John Chapman of venture capital and private equity firm Dundee Partners, JKBX aims to become the Fidelity of music investment — a platform where fans can buy, trade and sell royalty shares of songs with strong, sustained records of income. The company says all of the tracks offered will have been released over 18 months ago, with most of them older than 10 years. They include Major Lazer’s perennially streamed hit “Lean On” (it has over 1.8 billion streams on Spotify) and American Authors’ “Best Day of My Life,” a synch sensation that has been used in ads for Best Western Hotels, Ford and Jeep.
Early adopters won’t initially have to put any money down, and the reservations will be nonbinding while JKBX awaits the final approval from the SEC to make public offerings available to investors. In February, the company announced that it had partnered with GTS Securities, one of the largest Designated Market Makers on the New York Stock Exchange, to mitigate volatility and promote liquidity and competition on a secondary trading market for JKBX’s royalty shares.
JKBX has yet to choose a broker dealer or alternative trading system — it is in talks with several — and until that happens, there is no secondary market where investors can sell or trade their royalty shares.
The company says it will not set a royalty share’s initial price or determine how many shares will be made available; a separate issuer will do that. The type of Regulation A offering JKBX is attempting to provide can sell up to $75 million worth of shares in a 12-month period, which it expects to do.
Because it’s still seeking SEC qualification for its first batch of offerings, JKBX was careful to state in interviews with Billboard that it’s not offering or soliciting investors in securities and that any future offerings will provide investors with all the normal disclosures, including how much revenue a song has generated over the past three years and ongoing audited financials.
Tedder and other creators with songs on the platform won’t be directly involved in the investment process — at least for now. JKBX’s deals are with labels, music publishers and catalog funds that own the copyrights. But the company says writers with songs on the platform will get a cut of trades if they are part of its Creator Program, which includes a pool of money set aside for them.
Ryan Tedder of OneRepublic performs onstage during the Lollapalooza Paris Festival – Day Three on July 23, 2023 in Paris, France.
Sadaka Edmond/SIPA/AP Images
If JKBX clears these hurdles and its business strategy takes flight, rights holders, artists, JKBX and individual investors stand to profit from a new, potentially transformative income stream generated by the masses betting on the continued earning power of songs — an asset class previously restricted to institutional investors, private equity and music publishers. Hendel estimates the total addressable market for JKBX could reach billions of dollars based on the music industry’s growth trajectory and the 60 million individual investment accounts that Americans hold.
In the meantime, sources say the company has taken on a top-shelf collection of music company investors such as Spotify, Live Nation, YouTube, Red Light Management and Bertelsmann Digital Media. Financial backers include Mike Novogratz’s Galaxy Digital, Valor Equity Partners, and Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss, sources say. According to a recent SEC filing, JKBX raised $16 million from investors in January alone.
“I see it as a potential game-changer in the music rights world,” says Round Hill CEO Josh Gruss (who is not an investor).
JKBX is not the first company to test these waters. Masterworks and AcreTrader both launched in 2018 as marketplaces where the average person could invest in top-end commodities by purchasing fractional shares of securitized fine art or farmland to earn returns. In music, Royalty Exchange, SongVest and Royal have all been doing something similar for years, but industry insiders and artists say that JKBX’s backers, song catalog and SEC validation give it a serious leg up.
Its launch also comes at a time when fans wield more power than ever to send old songs viral again, by using snippets of them in TikTok videos, for example, and may therefore have more interest in owning a share of these songs’ earnings than they did in the past.
Sources say JKBX has secured the rights to hundreds of hit songs worth over $4 billion, substantially more than prior companies in this space, and is in talks with several major rights holders, including Hipgnosis, BMG and at least one of the majors.
JKBX says it is not working directly with songwriters because it’s currently focused on securing deals that can deliver a diverse list of assets up front, though it is open to working with artist-owned catalogs in the future. Instead, it divides music assets into royalty shares and submits those shares to the SEC for qualification as Regulation A offerings. Every time an investor buys, trades or sells shares on its platform, JKBX earns a commission.
While the artist is not directly involved in the offering or investment, JKBX CEO Scott Cohen says the company actively tries to make original recording artists aware of its listings and get the artists’ blessing for songs that appear on the platform.
DJ-producer Diplo, who partnered with Royal in March 2022 to sell tokens linked to the streaming revenue of his song “Don’t Forget My Love,” says JKBX’s “business-minded” leaders and their embrace of conventional market rules — only SEC-registered and -regulated investments will be offered — convinced him the platform stands the best chance of succeeding.
“This has major artists,” he says. “It has the best chance of winning because there is real cash flow in music. There is already a money chain — and it is really SEC-regulated.” (JKBX currently is not involved with blockchain or non-fungible tokens — technologies other startups in this space have used.)
Ape Drums, Diplo and DJ Walshy Fire of Major Lazer attend Preakness 146 hosted by 1/ST at Pimlico Race Course on May 15, 2021 in Baltimore, Maryland.
Paul Morigi/Getty Images
Tedder says that when Chapman and JKBX approached him with their pitch, “I think they got maybe two or three sentences in before I said, ‘Hold on a minute. You’re pitching me on the exact same idea that I had.’ ” He says he also told them, “ ‘The devil’s in the execution and your partners — getting [Universal Music Group (UMG) chairman/CEO] Lucian Grainge, getting giant funds like Hipgnosis. Whoever gets the largest collection of catalogs first, gets the signoff from the SEC first, jumps through all the hoops first is the winner.’ And they’re like, ‘Yeah, that’s us.’ ”
An early example of the financialization of music assets came in 1997, when David Bowie partnered with the Prudential Insurance Company and attorney David Pullman to raise $55 million through the sale of what became known as Bowie Bonds. It was the first example of an artist getting investors to bet on the income a back catalog would generate.
“This is a natural progression,” Pullman, chairman/CEO of The Pullman Group, wrote in an email. “The interest in investing has continued since these first … landmark deals where you have seen the biggest, savviest investors enter the market to recognize this asset class of music that keeps growing. It’s only natural [that] investors and fans would want to invest in their favorite songs. Song by song gives more choice.”
JKBX’s idea to allow investors to create customized portfolios of songs follows the recent launch of several exchange-traded funds, including David Schulhof’s MUSQ, where investors buy shares to gain exposure to 48 different music companies, including Warner Music Group (WMG), Spotify and Live Nation, and TUNE, a fund providing exposure to 50 music and digital companies, including UMG, Netflix and The Walt Disney Company.
“As long as the deals and investors are selective,” Pullman wrote, royalty streams “can be a sound investment.”
The JKBX interface through which investors can buy stakes in song royalty streams.
Courtesy of Jukebox
One key difference between owning stock in publicly traded companies and royalty shares in music assets is that the latter doesn’t give the investor any right to say how a song is marketed or promoted.
“You’re basically buying an income stream. You have no control over or input into how the song is used,” says Don Passman, renowned copyright expert, lawyer for Taylor Swift and author of the music industry handbook All You Need To Know About the Music Business. “The prices will be higher [than more conventional investments],” he explains, “because of two things: the sexiness of it and being able to buy it in little bitty pieces. It’s a little like fantasy sports, except with real money.”
Hendel and Cohen like the fantasy sports comparison for a couple of reasons: Fans who invest in sports tend to spend more money overall on merchandise and experiences linked to games, and labels are eagerly searching for ways to find and reach their artists’ superfans.
“We view this as a way to connect people more deeply to their favorite artists and elevate the catalog,” says Hendel. JKBX’s market research tells it superfans are one of their three target audiences. “A lot of our partners are looking at this not as a way to make money — the real thing is fan engagement.”
Cohen acknowledges that selling the platform’s potential to investors comes with a substantial learning curve, but he has successfully schooled the industry on similarly challenging concepts. As co-founder of groundbreaking digital music distributor The Orchard, he helped administer the first music downloads to mobile phones when consumers were still buying CDs.
“Trying to explain to people that they would be not only consuming music on their mobile device, they would be creating and engaging — just impossible,” Cohen says. “They’d go, ‘You want to download music? Why? I have a six-CD changer in my car.’ ”
Between 1995 and 2003, The Orchard racked up $3 million in debt. “We owed everybody money,” says Cohen. “We owed every artist money, our employees, the electric bill, the rent. I had lost all of my possessions.” And the IRS was hounding the company. At one point in the early 2000s, he recalls living out of The Orchard’s Lower East Side office subsisting on a diet of beans and rice cooked on a hot plate in the pantry. “I discovered there is a level of poverty; that zero, it turns out, is not the bottom,” he says. “It goes much deeper.” Cohen adds, “It was really dark times, but I was super confident in this space.”
Scott Cohen, JKBX CEO
Susanna Cappellaro
When Apple’s iTunes Store launched in 2003, The Orchard owned roughly one-third of the digital rights to all of the songs in it. The first check the company received exceeded its total 2002 revenue. The next month, that figure doubled, Cohen says. “It was confirmation of eight years of incredible struggle.”
The Orchard paid off all of its debts a short time later thanks to a several-million-dollar infusion from media investor Daniel Stein, who Cohen says gave him sage advice: “He said, ‘You made it this far, but now you’re going to have competition. Everyone is going to pour into this space, and all that hard work to get into the lead will evaporate overnight because new people will come in fully capitalized without any debt and they’ll eat your lunch.”
This time around, Cohen is the new guy that Stein warned him about, and he claims that puts JKBX at an advantage. “With The Orchard, we were first. With JKBX we are — whatever. Twentieth,” he says. “You enter the space without all the baggage of the past, you learn from everyone else, you’re fully capitalized and, wow, you can do a lot of damage.”
However, Cohen will have to manage investors’ expectations for returns, which will be highly dependent on how quickly JKBX can achieve scale.
Company representatives decline to reveal how many customers it needs to break even, but Cohen, who runs JKBX’s 35-person team remotely from his London home, reiterates that he’s not concerned about that number. “We’ve modeled the company around a very modest growth curve — like ridiculously small numbers of people. We have enough runway to last us a very, very long time without me having to lose all my possessions and become homeless again.
“When I look at the next year to 18 months, it’s a long, slow, educational curve where we just march forward month after month, quarter after quarter on a very clear path of what we want to do and not get stressed that every rights holder, artist and consumer isn’t on board on day one,” he continues. “It is going to take a moment for this to catch on, and as long as we are seeing the growth, we feel we are in the right place.”
Cohen has a preternatural confidence and comfort in technology’s ability to improve the human experience. In addition to founding The Orchard and later helping WMG “see over the horizon” as its chief innovation officer, he co-founded wearable technology company CyborgNest in 2017 and became one of its test subjects, implanting a device called NorthSense into his chest that vibrated when he faced magnetic north.
“We only know what we know because of the sensory information that comes into our brains,” he says. “What if we give [the brain] a new signal? How would your brain interpret it? The thought was that it would make me more human, not less.”
Cohen attempted to implant three different devices, but his body ultimately rejected all of them. While he hopes to resume these explorations, he says the opportunity to run JKBX was irresistible, and he doesn’t need a wearable gadget to navigate the royalty share business: “We don’t have a road map, but we have a compass, and that’s all that matters. We are doing something new, and I know where we’re headed.”
It is too soon to project what JKBX investors can expect in terms of return on their investment, but two sources estimate royalty shares will provide a base rate of return of around 3%. By comparison, the S&P 500 Index is up about 14% so far this year, and the yield on the ultra-safe 10-year U.S. Treasury notes are at 15-year highs of 4.35% (as of Aug. 21). While JKBX’s royalty shares are a fledgling asset class compared with both of those investments, it is worth noting that on average, the stock price for companies that filed initial public offerings in 2022 rose by an average of 10%, and Royalty Exchange, which launched over a decade ago, now says it provides annual returns to investors of 13.3% a year.
Hipgnosis Songs Fund, a pioneer in providing investors exposure to music royalties through its publicly listed trust, said in July that its investors have earned 27.9 cents per share of dividends since its July 2018 IPO — a 69% net asset value return to shareholders.
Many factors affect investor returns, including market conditions, initial price, demand on a secondary market, how long an investor holds an asset and when the investor buys it. JKBX thinks this will appeal to superfans, people looking to diversify their portfolios, and crypto and Web3-savvy investors.
JKBX and financial experts argue that the rules of efficient markets incentivize issuers to price royalty shares competitively in order to create demand and foster the success of the platform.
When JKBX executives pitch rights holders and artists, they highlight older songs that achieved fresh success from viral moments on TikTok and Spotify — songs like Miguel’s 2010 hit “Sure Thing.” JKBX presents a new way to cash in on catalog-caliber songs and could help identify fans who share and promote them most, JKBX executives say. If users agree to it, JKBX sees a future where artists and labels could directly connect with superfans on the platform, potentially driving future social media revivals.
In the meantime, publicly traded music trusts like Hipgnosis, whose stock is trading at a discount, and labels, which are under investor pressure for the high prices they paid to acquire catalogs, can use JKBX “as an outlet to raise liquidity to justify their acquisitions and a higher share price to the public,” Pullman says.
As for the average investor, Passman is skeptical that they will earn high returns from JKBX, given the price record labels and catalog funds have had to pay to acquire hit song catalogs in recent years.
“It is unlikely that consumers will be able to get [royalty shares] at an initial price that would have any kind of decent return just because the multiples will be high and because there is a sexy value to owning a piece of your favorite artist’s song,” Passman says, cautioning that returns will be song-specific and lesser-known songs might present better returns.
Larry Miller, director of New York University’s Music Business Program at the Steinhardt School, says that JKBX’s success hinges on “the belief that [royalty shares] will be worth more in the future than they are worth today, and having in place a transparent, fast and highly liquid secondary market is essential in having this be more than an interesting, fun and curious hobby for fans.”
If JKBX can get that in place, Miller says, “there is a great deal of potential impact here.”
This story will appear in the Aug. 26, 2023, issue of Billboard.
On Billboard’s Power Publicists list, the top artist representatives at labels and independent companies share stories of the unforgettable moments their careers in music publicity have included thus far, as well as the philosophies that guide them.
Below, members of their often-extensive teams weigh in.
On Their Craziest PR Memories….
“Super early on in my career I was on the carpet for a gala on a Monday in May. I was very junior and not necessarily supposed to be in this situation with this artist, but there I was walking up the stairs holding the longest dress train. As flashes began to pop, it became clear that I did not know how to properly fix a train for a photo. Needless to say this artist not-so-quietly instructed me to find someone who knew what they were doing, quickly. Note: I quickly learned to fix a dress train.” —Beau Benton, svp, media & operations, Republic Records
“I once took an early morning flight and went straight to set for a photo shoot that lasted over 24 hours. We didn’t leave the set once, not even to check into our hotels — we just walked right back onto the plane the next day. I take pride knowing that experience didn’t break me; however, it did break the internet…” —Marisa Bianco, svp, media, Republic Records
“Once upon a time, I had a client performing an acoustic session at a well-known publication. Above their studio was a therapist’s office and drums were not exactly welcome in the session due to noise concerns. Without divulging all the mishaps of the day — an actual physical showdown broke out over a box drum. As a publicist, you quite literally need to be ready for anything and everything and always have your mending kit ready because you never know when a box drum might start an underground fight club.” —Erika Clark, vp, artist & media relations, Island Records
“Walking life-sized llama puppets down the red carpet at the VMAs in 2015 with Fall Out Boy was never something I thought I’d be able to add to my resume!” —Natasha Desai, vp, Full Coverage Communications
“I can’t say I ever imagined myself working the doors at Stevie Nicks’ afterparty to celebrate her second induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. That was pretty amazing.” —Gabi Hollander, director, Full Coverage Communications
“My artist arrived to a red-carpet (my first-ever red-carpet) an hour and a half late after the driver got lost, so I sprinted and found them a mile away on foot. They were the only artist to arrive on foot and did so approximately 1 minute before Taylor Swift. We were sweaty but we survived!” — Katie O’Gara, manager, artist and media relations, Island Records
“I once had an artist alert our team they were ‘on their way’ to a full day of press in NYC that was slated to start in an hour. It turned out what they meant was they were ‘on their way’ to the airport in Los Angeles, set to depart on the 6 hour LAX to JFK journey, arriving right in time for our entire planned press day to end. The minutiae matter!” —Erin Ryan, senior director, artist and media relations, Island Records
“Attending an event at the White House with a client and getting into a bit of a disagreement with the Secret Service.” —Jessica Sciacchitano, vp, music and entertainment, R&CPMK
On The PR Nightmares They Survived And Learned From…
“Back in 2018, at a prior job, I was gearing up for an annual activation and performance jam session with an array of acclaimed talent when the venue was faced with a bomb threat the day of the event. I had to deescalate the tension and concerns of on-site press, affirming that this was not what we meant by ‘an explosive lineup,’ while prioritizing the use and reporting of the brand/talent’s approved language by media covering the evening.” —Joshua Dickinson, senior director, publicity, RCA Records
“Being stuck on the set of a music video for thirteen hours with a few important journalists and not being able to complete the interviews. It was a turning point early in my career and taught me the importance of building real relationships. Transparency, good conversation and craft services helped us all get through a very long shoot.” —Randy Henderson, svp, publicity, Interscope Geffen A&M Records
On The PR Philosophies That Got Them Through It All …
“While our world is filled with many uncontrollable variables that often cause us to quickly and strategically pivot, showing up for our clients and working hard for them every single day remains a constant.” —Avery Robinson, director, Full Coverage Communications
“I always strive to put thought and meaning behind anything I do for an artist. As publicists we should strive to tailor the opportunities as best as possible for each artist and always have an opinion on why they should do it. One of my very first bosses in this business told me that if all you’re doing is sending an opportunity via an email, anyone can do your job. What matters most is the inclusion of your thoughts and your passion for the project.” —Ayanna Wilks, vp, publicity, Epic Records
08/24/2023
Searching social media for Tree Paine and Yvette Noel-Schure’s names reveals their own legions of passionate stans.
08/24/2023
Ambrosia Healy and Dennis Dennehy’s first meeting wasn’t quite storybook perfect.
It was a stormy day backstage at the Tibetan Freedom Concert at Washington, D.C.’s Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium in June 1998. Healy and Dennehy were already aware of each other — but they weren’t fans. Dennehy, then handling publicity at Geffen Records, had a roster that included Britpop band Embrace, and the band’s legendary manager, Jazz Summers, had recently suggested bringing Healy, a talented indie publicist he was working with, into the fold to take the lead for the act’s press.
To put it mildly, Dennehy wasn’t thrilled. When an indie is brought in to supplement a label representative’s work, he says, it implies, “You’re not doing your job” — and anyway, he still insists he’d “gotten Embrace under control” on his own.
Meanwhile, shortly before the concert, Healy had called Dennehy to discuss a different artist. Her star client, Dave Matthews Band, was playing two stadium gigs supported by Dennehy’s Geffen act Beck, and she wanted to review photo logistics. Still stinging from the Embrace episode, he rebuffed her. “I was like, ‘This guy f–king sucks!’ ” Healy recounts. By the time Summers introduced them backstage at RFK Stadium, they were primed for conflict.
“You were kind of an a–hole!” Healy insists today. “No, you — that’s not true at all!” Dennehy protests with a bit of dramatic flair. “You gave me the brushoff!” Twenty years later, he hasn’t quite given up on this point, though their circumstances have, to say the least, changed: In what feels like a plot twist out of a music industry romcom, Healy and Dennehy have now been married for 14 years. “It’s like [When] Harry Met Sally, without the friendship,” Healy says with a laugh.
We’re sitting on this July afternoon at Farm Club, a hip farm-to-table restaurant in Northern Michigan, where the couple, who are based in Los Angeles, own a home in the Traverse City area. They’ve been tagging in and out of here to piece together a summer for their 9-year-old daughter and 7-year-old son; Dennehy arrives a few minutes late, having driven directly from Cherry Capital Airport after flying in from New York that morning, and in a few days, Healy will return to L.A. for work. Understandably, both publicity lifers seem mildly apprehensive about being the subjects of a profile rather than playing their usual roles as seasoned pros ensuring an artist’s interview doesn’t go awry. When we order a round of pilsners, Dennehy half-jokingly quips, “That’s off the record!” Healy overrules him.
Over three decades in music publicity, Dennehy and Healy have guided scores of culture-shifting artists’ careers, as well as those of executives at the highest echelons of the business. “It’s a real name-check of major music industry events,” reflects Dennehy, 56, as he begins to unspool his history with Healy, 55; names like Jimmy and Coran (Iovine and Capshaw) pop up casually as supporting players in the couple’s personal story. From digital piracy to the pandemic, the pair has seen — and helped shape the messaging around — widespread change in the business, even if, as Healy puts it, “what’s needed [from publicists] has always been the same.”
Since 2014, Healy has served as executive vp/head of media strategy and relations at Capitol Music Group. Dennehy has been chief communications officer at AEG Presents since 2019, when he left Interscope Geffen A&M after 20 years. Together, they’ve navigated a turbulent, demanding music industry, and though their relationship has created conflict between them countless times — over Saturday Night Live bookings, magazine covers, Grammy campaigns and lots more — working in the same field, and the mutual understanding that has brought them, has strengthened their bond. “It’s not all kill or be killed,” Healy says. “In fact, the kill or be killed, that’s just the nature of what we do. But my greatest ally? I’m married to my greatest ally.”
Technically, Dennehy and Healy first crossed paths three years before their Tibetan Freedom Concert run-in, at South by Southwest (SXSW) in 1995. At the Austin Convention Center, Dennehy, who had just moved to L.A., spotted Healy and asked his then-Geffen colleague Jim Merlis, “Who is that woman? She’s very attractive.” Merlis didn’t know, so Dennehy later “did the brush-by” and saw her tag: “Ambrosia Healy, Ambrosia Healy PR.”
Both had established themselves in music publicity in the early 1990s. Though Healy might’ve seemed destined for the music business (her father, Dan Healy, was a sound engineer for the Grateful Dead for most of its career), she had settled in Boulder, Colo., with plans to become a teacher. While working as a cocktail waitress — and handling publicity — at the Fox Theatre, she saw Dave Matthews Band when it passed through the venue on its first tour west of the Mississippi in 1993; when DMB returned to town a few months later, she met its manager, Coran Capshaw, who asked her to do the band’s publicity. After graduating college, Dennehy had landed in New York with record-industry aspirations, and a short spell doing publicity at an indie German metal label led him in 1992 to the Geffen Records publicity job he would hold for the rest of the decade.
As Dennehy puts it today, he and Merlis “thought we knew everybody. You know, you’re in New York, you’re young, you’re…” “Full of yourself,” Healy deadpans. When he saw in the SXSW guide that she was from Boulder, his spirits fell: “I just closed it, and I was like, ‘Aw, I’m never going to meet her.’ ”
But by the late ’90s, Dennehy’s and Healy’s social and professional circles began to converge. Healy moved to New York in 1997, and though Dennehy was out west for his Geffen job, he kept his apartment in Manhattan, where he regularly spent a week per month. “All of a sudden, we’re having lots of mutual friends in New York, and so our paths started to cross,” Healy says. “Every time I’d be like, ‘Ugh.’ Like, ‘That guy is so mean. He’s so rude. I don’t want to be around him.’ ”
“And that’s what I thought about her,” Dennehy says. “ ‘What is her deal?’ ”
For professionals in other fields, a shared occupation might well be the perfect grounds for a meet-cute — but the very nature of music PR prevented that for the two young publicists. “Even your best friends, in what we do, are your competitors,” Dennehy says.
One of those best-friend competitors was Sheila Richman, then working in publicity at Island/Def Jam, who rented a house with Dennehy and longtime Rolling Stone editor Jason Fine in La Quinta, Calif., for Coachella 2001. Healy, also a close friend of Richman’s and Fine’s, was in town, too, and they all met for dinner the night before the festival.
“I get there and that mean guy” — Dennehy — “is there,” Healy says. “And over the course of that dinner in April 2001…”
“And into the evening,” Dennehy interrupts.
“No, it was the dinner,” Healy says. “It started with dinner.”
“I know,” Dennehy says. “We sat around talking for…”
“I was like, ‘Oh, no. I — I love him,’ ” Healy says. (Dennehy: “I was like, ‘Wow, this is awesome!’ ”) “We were sitting next to each other. I asked him for one of his shrimp from his shrimp cocktail as a flirting move and he let me have it. Cut to years later, I know he really doesn’t like to share his shrimp cocktail.” (On the other hand, when Dennehy plucks a crouton from Healy’s salad shortly after they tell this story, it goes unacknowledged.)
“I remember them talking all night and really hitting it off,” recalls Richman, now executive vp of publicity at Atlantic Records. “As the weekend progressed, it seemed like they were falling for each other. It seemed like it made total sense.”
Austin Hargrave
Even so, the weekend didn’t cement their romance; they would date on and off for two monthslong stints before encounters at a fortuitous Big Hassle Media holiday party in December 2003 — where Dennehy recalls thinking, “I need to get back together with Ambrosia Healy,” when he saw her — and the subsequent Grammys brought them together for good. Following short periods at Shore Fire Media and Marty Diamond’s Little Big Man agency, Healy moved to L.A. to run publicity for Capitol Records, where clients included an ascendant Coldplay. Dennehy, meanwhile, joined Interscope Geffen A&M following Geffen’s 1999 merger with Interscope, where, among other things, he was soon running point on PR for one of the world’s biggest artists, Eminem; by 2002, he was head of IGA’s publicity department.
“Think we were competitors before?” Healy says. “We now have identical jobs.”
Saturday Night Live is a sore spot for the couple. Throughout the 2000s and 2010s — with Dennehy at Interscope and Healy at Capitol, then an indie, then Capitol Music Group — they would often compete for the same bookings. For years, he says, “For one of us to win, the other one had to lose.”
“If I call Dennis, Ambrosia will typically let him do his thing and obviously hear what’s going on,” says SNL coordinating producer Brian Siedlecki, who has worked at SNL since the mid-’90s and booked the show’s music for almost that long. “If I call Ambrosia and he’s sitting there, he’ll be screaming the names of his artists in the background while I’m trying to have a conversation with her.”
In early 2014, Healy got Bastille on SNL before Dennehy scored a booking for The 1975 (“Made me insane,” he says), and in fall 2018, she booked Maggie Rogers, then just bubbling up and without an album out, over Dennehy’s priority, Ella Mai, who had scored two huge Billboard Hot 100 hits in the preceding months. “We were in a full-on brawl,” he says.
“It was quiet around our house for a couple days,” Healy recalls. “That was the time I was like, ‘If you don’t get it, aren’t you happy I get it?!” “And I was like, ‘No, I want somebody I don’t know to get it!’ ” Dennehy retorts. (Ultimately, they both got their SNL wishes: Mai played the show just two weeks after Rogers.)
By the ’10s, Dennehy and Healy — who bought their house in L.A.’s Hancock Park in 2006 and got married in early 2009 — had established a clandestine but (mostly) compassionate rhythm. “There are times we’re on the phone and the other one’s listening and you’re like, ‘What are you doing here? Get out of the room,’ ” Dennehy says. “Especially before we had kids, there were like two silos in our house. We always had to be two rooms away from each other.”
“It’s a mutual understanding,” Healy says. “These are our livelihoods. We have to be trusted by our employers. There were things we couldn’t talk about.” Or, as Dennehy puts it, “It’s a little cloak and dagger. It’s a little Mr. & Mrs. Smith in our house sometimes.”
Finding that balance took trial and error. In early 2008, a lawyer working with Dennehy needed to contact a prominent magazine editor (even today, they can’t share specifics, but Healy calls it a “cease-and-desist situation”) who Dennehy knew was a personal friend of Healy’s. Without explanation, he asked her for the editor’s number — “Back then, you didn’t have everyone’s cellphone number,” she clarifies — and, assuming good faith, she gave it to him. Backstage at a taping of The Ellen DeGeneres Show, Healy received a call from the editor explaining a lawyer had just called.
“We hadn’t just been dating, we had been dating for a long time,” Healy says, adding that Dennehy explained himself at the time by saying he was under pressure from his colleagues and was willing to do what he had to — even betraying the trust of the person he shared a home with — to get it done. “That was a big line crossed,” she continues. “We haven’t had many of those.”
“But you learn from that,” Dennehy adds. “You figure out how far you can push things.”
Their periodic conflicts make for good stories, but the couple are emphatic about the overall benefits of their shared profession. In no small part, that’s because while their styles differ — they agree that Healy is more methodical while Dennehy is, in her words, “a vibe guy” — they see the job similarly.
“What both of them share [is] they don’t do press. They tell stories,” says Jim Guerinot, who as manager of Nine Inch Nails worked with Dennehy (before the band left Interscope in 2007) and later Healy. “Some people just carpet-bomb the press. Both of them were always very clear about forcing the artist into having a vision for the story that they want to tell and then telling that story.”
That extends to the demands of the gig itself. “We understand what the pull of the job is and where you need to be at a certain time,” Dennehy says, recalling an ex who “couldn’t comprehend why I was at CBGB’s until three in the morning every night.” When his and Healy’s newborn daughter was just a few weeks old, she understood when Dennehy had to fly to Dublin to shoot a U2 magazine cover: “She’s like, ‘Yeah, you have to go.’ ”
Both now laugh about their years facing off in label PR. Dennehy’s pivot into the live space was unexpectedly tumultuous — less than a year after assuming his AEG role, he ended up navigating the biggest calamity that sector has ever faced, the coronavirus pandemic. But they’re noticeably relieved that his new gig has helped ease their professional tensions.
“We’re not competing anymore,” says Dennehy before Healy cuts in: “Actually, it’s kind of more fun than it has ever been.”
This story will appear in the Aug. 26, 2023, issue of Billboard.
One recent Sunday, Shore Fire Media founder and CEO Marilyn Laverty was paddleboarding when she experienced a publicist’s worst nightmare: She dropped her cellphone in New Jersey’s Shark River inlet and watched it slowly sink, rendering her incommunicado. “Carrying a phone when you’re paddleboarding isn’t really necessary or advisable,” Laverty admits now. But as a publicist, she adds, “I’m more comfortable with it on my person.”
Consider it an occupational hazard. Laverty has navigated the often murky waters of public relations for over 45 years — expanding from handling iconic artists like Bruce Springsteen, Bonnie Raitt and Elvis Costello to representing venues, tech companies, streaming services, documentaries, entrepreneurs and even athletes.
After trying her hand at journalism — her first job out of Cornell was as an editorial assistant at the Ithaca (N.Y.) Journal — and deciding it wasn’t for her, she joined Columbia Records’ publicity department as an assistant in 1977. She briefly jumped to RCA before returning to Columbia in 1979, ultimately rising to vp and running the publicity department. In 1990, with assurances from Springsteen’s and Wynton Marsalis’ managers that they would continue working with her, she struck out on her own, starting Shore Fire in her Brooklyn Heights apartment.
Like most publicists, Laverty is much more comfortable pitching her clients than talking about herself. She answers questions cautiously and deliberately and suggests specific angles — like focusing more on Shore Fire’s present (say, exciting new clients like best new artist Grammy winner Samara Joy) than its past, or highlighting her 45-person staff rather than herself (including her executive team of senior vps Mark Satlof — her second hire in 1990 — Rebecca Shapiro, Matt Hanks and Allison Elbl, all of whom have their own high-profile clients and oversee various staff or operations in Shore Fire’s Brooklyn Heights headquarters or its offices in Nashville and Los Angeles).
That same strategic focus and attention to detail has made Shore Fire one of the leading independent PR firms of the last 30 years and Laverty the only indie publicist with whom Springsteen has ever worked. “We and Marilyn have been a match for the last 40 years,” says his manager, Jon Landau. “She has no agenda except for the artists, is a master communicator, is entirely networked, is respected in all corners of the industry and is not shy when — tactfully — disagreeing with management. In fact, she can be incredibly stubborn, but she’s usually — not always! — right.”
How soon after you launched Shore Fire in 1990 were you sure you would make it?
From the start I knew it would work. We had a lot of great artists and we grew slowly. We never had to have layoffs because we grew too quickly. Starting in my apartment was definitely cost-conscious, but within two years we moved to an office in Brooklyn Heights, and after a few years [we] moved to our current space and have been there now for 25 years.
What is something you learned in your early days from a client or mentor that has stuck with you?
Being able to work with [Springsteen] at the beginning of my career was the greatest lesson in knowing yourself. He’s not only one of the most incredible artists of our era, but he knows who he is like no one else. He doesn’t focus on what other artists get. He is really pursuing his own vision and his own way. It has been a lesson that I’ve taken to everybody I’ve worked with, to try to get them to articulate their personal vision and try to honor it with everything we do.
Last November, his comments to Rolling Stone about dynamic pricing for his current tour, and how high some prices were, generated some controversy. Do you prep him for such interviews?
We always let Bruce know in advance about the overall content of an interview, and Bruce always answers questions entirely on his own. I think the thing people love most about Bruce Springsteen is his honesty, his realness. He’s like that in interviews, too. He says what he thinks. It’s honest, not tailored to get a certain response. It’s direct. I respect that.
How has your evolution into so many different areas of PR come about?
One of Shore Fire’s greatest strengths is our brainpower with all 45 staffers. There’s a lot of variety within our roster, and it’s constantly changing because it really reflects not just me and my tastes, but the whole collective. There are so many staff who’ve been with the company over 10 years, over 20 years, but it’s very exciting when the new staff are telling us what they care about and bringing in clients. We’ve developed the roster around the interests of the staff.
Marilyn Laverty photographed on August 15, 2023 at Shore Fire Media in Brooklyn Heights.
Meredith Jenks
Addressing allegations of misconduct is common for artists now. How does Shore Fire handle those situations?
I think all of us publicists are facing some cases of cancel culture on an individual basis, [but] my idea is to try to work with artists who are — it may sound Pollyanna-ish — really good people. We focus on artists who are more known for their artistry than their behavior.
In 2019, Dolphin Entertainment, which also owns PR firms 42West and The Door, purchased Shore Fire. Why was it the right time to sell?
I met [Dolphin founder] Bill O’Dowd through [attorney] Don Passman, who has been a [Shore Fire] client. Bill shared his vision for building a great supergroup of companies. As PR changes more each year, we really become marketers as much as media hunters, and I felt that there would be something very dynamic with working with Bill and with these companies.
How has your role changed since the acquisition?
How we handle our campaigns [and] how we shape our roster are entirely up to us. I’m still bringing in clients, but at the same time, I’m devoting a lot of energy building collaboration within the companies right now, figuring out how we can work together and how our artists can benefit from their clients and vice versa.
Does a positive album review still matter at a time when everyone on social media can weigh in?
Holy cow. I remember when every campaign you had to get a review in Stereo Review and High Fidelity. A great review or an appearance on a morning or latenight TV show are still goals, but nowadays, we’re also putting together ideas for promotional events and partnerships. We call publicists “storytellers” nowadays and maybe that seems like a funny term, but by creating opportunities for artists to be seen at events or creating partnerships, you’re also telling their story.
Speaking of telling stories: Shore Fire differentiates itself from other PR companies by generating intriguing storylines on pitches, like, “This ambient artist gave NFL star Aaron Rodgers tips for his dark retreat.” [Shore Fire used this subject line recently in a pitch for artist East Forest.] How do those come about?
We have a Slack channel devoted entirely to subject lines. We frequently will put subject lines up to a vote, and we share success stories because it’s very competitive getting your message out there. Our success with artists is built over the course of months, but you can only build a story if people are paying attention.
This story will appear in the Aug. 26, 2023, issue of Billboard.
For 2023, Billboard is introducing the R&B/Hip-Hop Power Players’ Choice Award, a peer-voted accolade chosen by Billboard Pro members to honor the executive they believe has made the most impact across the R&B/hip-hop music business over the past year. After three rounds of voting, Billboard Pro members have chosen Pierre “P” Thomas, CEO of Quality Control, to […]
This year marks the 50th anniversary of hip-hop, a milestone that is being celebrated with curated concerts, special programming and more.
To commemorate such a momentous birthday, influential hip-hop executives and artists honor the groundbreaking and culture-defining genre with personal love letters to the art form that continues to inspire them every day — and will for many more years to come.
Tuma BasaDirector of Black music and culture, YouTube
Tuma Basa
Courtesy of YouTube
I grew up in Zimbabwe listening to hip-hop from here and could feel the realness from all the way over there. And in true hip-hop fashion, when I got to the States, I was able to flip my love for hip-hop into a whole career. To me, it’s not just a culture, it’s a vibration. … It’s not just music, it’s the actual news! That artful reflection of reality is unmatched and is going to keep me loving it till infinity.
Jermaine DupriArtist/producer/songwriter/DJ; author; CEO, So So Def
Jermaine Dupri
Steven Eloiseau
I believe hip-hop has created opportunities and opened doors for people — artists, producers, designers, etc. — that no other music genre has. It’s a lifestyle that has evolved over 50 years and its legacy is deeply rooted in Black culture and our experiences. A lot of the choices I make are because hip-hop makes me do it.
Stephen HillTV producer; former BET and MTV executive
Stephen Hill
Marteen DeBoer
Socially conscious music existed before hip-hop; artists observed social challenges, oppressions and disparities and incorporated their views into their work. Often brilliantly, hip-hop is and has been the platform on which those who actually live their daily lives fully in those challenges, oppressions and disparities can stand and be seen and heard … authentically. Hip-hop is also one of the entities responsible for the largest growth in Black millionaires (and a few billionaires) in this country. Increased Black wealth leads to increased Black ownership. Black ownership leads to a cleaner and better lit, though not unfettered, path to freedom. This is America.
MC LyteRapper/DJ/entrepreneur
MC Lyte
Michael Buckner for Variety
Hip-hop means everything to me. It has been an integral part of my life since I was a kid and is woven into every significant fabric of my life. It put me on a pathway and journey that I couldn’t have imagined in the beginning. It has changed my life, my family’s lives and so many others over the past 50 years. Hip-hop is beyond music. It is style, fashion, dance and even taught as part of the curriculum in universities nationwide. Hip-hop has allowed me to use my voice to inspire, ignite and give back. It is also the embodiment of Black culture and the ultimate voice of the people. I’m so proud to be part of its legacy, which is constantly growing and evolving — as it should. Hip-hop is forever.
Mona Scott-YoungCEO, Monami Entertainment
Mona Scott-Young
Jaxon Photography
To me, hip-hop has always represented freedom. More than just freedom of expression, it’s freedom from the limitations of stereotype, freedom from socioeconomic boundaries and freedom to live and speak our truth. Hip-hop is community — a common expression of experiences that allows us to connect to one another and better understand each other, even when the experiences expressed are not our own. Hip-hop is a global platform that allows us to be heard, seen, recognized and acknowledged in spaces and places where we would not otherwise have a voice. Hip-hop is a testament to our resiliency and ingenuity and its legacy is one of hope, empowerment and freedom.
Mopreme ShakurRapper/producer; member of Thug Life with stepbrother Tupac Shakur
Mopreme Shakur
Talia Rodríguez-Shakur
For those who grew up in our generation, hip-hop was our hope, our dream, our creation, our baby. It is something that brings us pride and affirmation of the power of our voices to connect with the world. Our creation came from the ground up and it has fed our communities. Hip-hop is our culture, our love, and most of us don’t give a damn who likes it or not. We’re the rebels whose art became a force and went on to inspire the world. Hip-hop and its legacy mean power to me. Long live hip-hop!
Roxanne ShantéRap legend; host, SiriusXM
Roxanne Shanté
Prince Williams/WireImage
Back in the day, they always said that hip-hop was not going to last. So now, to be here 50 years in and to have the celebration we’re having right now worldwide, for me, it’s an honor and a blessing. When you think about how they always thought that hip-hop was only going to be the music for the urban area or how they thought it was always the news for the urban children going through situations and circumstances, it now seems to be the word for everyone, everywhere. Nothing can be sold without it, no story can be told without it. It’s a beautiful thing.
This story will appear in the Aug. 5, 2023, issue of Billboard.
On May 1, Ice Spice attended her first-ever Met Gala. By the end of that month, she had appeared on an even bigger public stage: as the featured artist on the remix of Taylor Swift’s “Karma,” which she live-debuted with Swift in a surprise appearance at MetLife Stadium in East Rutherford, N.J., the same day the track dropped. A week later, “Karma” vaulted to No. 2 on the Billboard Hot 100, earning Ice her third top 10 on the chart and her highest-reaching hit to date.
Then, in June, Ice reconnected with her idol Nicki Minaj (they had already released the Hot 100 No. 4 hit “Princess Diana” in January) for the Aqua-sampling “Barbie World” from the Barbie movie soundtrack; the song debuted at No. 7 on the Hot 100, notching Ice her fourth top 10. Two days later, Ice honored the Bronx — the New York borough that both raised her and birthed hip-hop itself 50 years ago — at the BET Awards during her first-ever awards show performance. And in July, she played four international music festivals — Dublin’s Longitude Festival; Norway’s Stavern Festival; Les Ardentes in Liège, France; and London’s Wireless Festival, where she performed her No. 3 collaboration “Boy’s a Liar, Pt. 2” with PinkPantheress for the first time — in a single week.
“The People’s Princess,” as her legion of fans has dubbed her, is on fire. And this month, she’ll add another accolade to her fast-growing résumé, when, on Aug. 8, Billboard honors the artist born Isis Gaston as its 2023 R&B/hip-hop Rookie of the Year. “I have put in so much hard work, and it means a lot to be recognized for it and have more than just plaques to show for it,” she says.
Her litany of accomplishments may resemble the trajectory of an established superstar, but in fact Ice will receive her award just two days before the one-year anniversary of “Munch (Feelin’ U),” the breakout single that catapulted the up-and-coming MC to the upper echelons of hip-hop — and pop — royalty.
“I would always be on Google as a kid, looking up ‘how to be rich’ and ‘careers that pay the most.’ I was like, ‘OK, should I be a doctor? Or should I be a lawyer?’ I just wanted to make all the money,” she said in April, when she sat down with Billboard for a cover story. “But I did always love music. I guess it just fell into place.”
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The seeds for Ice’s career were first planted when her father, an underground rapper, schooled her on hip-hop heavyweights like Jay-Z and Wu-Tang Clan. Then, in her teens, she witnessed the late Pop Smoke shed new light on New York’s drill scene. “I guess I always knew I’d be a rapper because I was looking to be friends with producers,” Ice says of meeting RIOTUSA, who would become her go-to producer, while attending State University of New York at Purchase. In less than two years, the two developed a winning formula — Ice’s low-pitched, sharp-tongued bars brimming with idiosyncratic-yet-catchy slang paired with RIOT’s menacing drill beats softened by bubblegum-pop melodies from EDM samples — and struck gold with “Munch.”
Since then, Ice has conquered hip-hop, EDM and pop stages alike — and proved she’s no one-hit wonder. “I believe she’s able to attract different genres and crowds because of her willingness to experiment with crossover sounds and not box herself in,” says her manager, James Rosemond Jr. “Ice will always be a rapper first — however, we do want to take what she represents and what she is doing on a global level.”
Before that happens, she has a few more goals for the year — like releasing the deluxe edition of her debut EP, Like..?, which dropped July 21 — before she gets to work on her first album. “We want to build a strong foundation for her and not fly over any necessary steps that a new artist should take, nor have her quickly change her music to sound a certain way due to the big crossover success,” Rosemond says.
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Come November, Ice will open Doja Cat’s North American arena tour alongside Doechii, a support opportunity Rosemond says was “a personal request from Doja” after Ice met her earlier this year and helped by his relationship with Doja’s manager, Gordan Dillard. “Every strategic festival moment you’ve been seeing Ice billed for and doing is her getting her live-show chops up for this upcoming tour moment,” he says, also citing her “Karma” stadium performance with Swift. “Ice’s confidence has shot up even more to take on an arena tour as a supporting act.”
And as she continues strategically plotting new career milestones, Ice knows her path aligns with the trajectory of hip-hop itself. “Fifty years of hip-hop is monumental,” Ice says. “I hope to push the genre forward in whatever ways I can, but I know I’ll have a huge impact on the youngins coming up now.”
This story will appear in the Aug. 5, 2023, issue of Billboard.
Five years ago, Lil Wayne sat down in his Miami recording studio and spoke in depth with Billboard for the first time in almost a decade. The trailblazing rapper and entrepreneur stood at a crossroads: On the verge of releasing what he had declared would be his final album, Tha Carter V, he had finally settled the three-year lawsuit against his former label Cash Money that had delayed the project’s release and just been awarded sole ownership of the Young Money imprint he had launched in 2003.
So as Aug. 11 — the 50th anniversary of hip-hop — fast approaches alongside Young Money’s own 20th birthday, it’s fitting to be sitting down with Lil Wayne once again. One of the genre’s most innovative and still influential artists, the 40-year-old Louisianian occupies a unique vantage point, forged during a now nearly 30-year journey that began in 1997 with the New Orleans group Hot Boys and soon grew into a multimillion-selling solo career. And that’s not counting the still-growing list of hit collaborations he’s had with a diverse array of fellow hip-hop and R&B artists — including Drake, Nicki Minaj, Future, 2 Chainz, Chris Brown, Mary J. Blige and Lil Baby — as well as other intrepid pairings with artists up and down the genre aisles: Madonna, Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber, Imagine Dragons, Fall Out Boy, Romeo Santos and Shakira, among others. In the course of hip-hop’s own evolution, Wayne’s career is a bridge between then and now, between the genre’s storied, hard-won past and its next-gen, global future.
Young Money Records executive vp/GM Karen Civil, who began running Wayne’s label and several additional portfolios — including his rum brand, Bumbu, and his underwear line, Ethika — in March, says that she also looks at him “as a tree, a foundation. Through the years, we’ve seen different branches blossom, from Nicki and Drake to his businesses, including Young Money, and his relationship with [label president] Mack Maine. A lot of people know Drake and Wayne. But he’s set up so many other people — Tyga is one — who have given him his flowers, like, ‘You’re the reason I rap.’ Those moments mean a lot because he loves to see people around him win.”
Producer-rapper Swizz Beatz has personally witnessed Wayne’s evolution from the time when, as he recalls, they were both “the youngest ones” on the Cash Money and Ruff Ryders tour in 2000. “I knew he was special then, and he’s definitely special now,” continues Swizz, who has collaborated with Wayne for more than 20 years. “It takes a special eye and ear to see a Drake before he’s Drake or a Nicki before she’s Nicki … or the many other artists he’s been involved with who are some of the biggest artists alongside himself to date. That comes from his investment of time, his eye, energy and business sense. He’s responsible for this generation of music.”
Before he could provide a foundation for others, Wayne had to build his own. Over his career, he’s notched five No. 1 albums on the Billboard 200 and 12 top 10s. Tha Carter III, released in 2008, spent three weeks at No. 1 — making it the Wayne album with the most weeks at that perch — and has racked up 221 weeks total on the chart, the most of any of his releases; in September 2022, the RIAA recertified it at eight times platinum.
On the Billboard Hot 100, the five-time Grammy winner has claimed a total of 25 top 10s — including gems “A Milli”; “She Will,” featuring Drake; and “6 Foot 7 Foot,” featuring Cory Gunz — and three No. 1s: “Lollipop,” featuring Static Major (Wayne’s first RIAA diamond track, certified in December); Jay Sean’s “Down,” featuring Wayne; and DJ Khaled’s star-studded “I’m the One,” which, along with Wayne’s guest spot, also features Justin Bieber, Quavo and Chance the Rapper. With 185 total Hot 100 entries — up from 138 just five years ago — Wayne has the fourth-most songs on the chart ever behind Drake, Taylor Swift and the Glee cast.
“Wayne is definitely somebody who continues to create his own blueprint from rap to rock,” says Civil. “I just love the fact that he doesn’t put himself in one category. He continues to reinvent himself and do new things — like becoming a professional skateboarder at 40. He doesn’t put an age limit on things. He doesn’t allow a title, a job or one career set to define him. Seeing the plethora of different people, from [Lil Uzi Vert] to YoungBoy [Never Broke Again] to others who are creating their own genres and sounds, is a testament to Wayne creating that lane.”
Balenciaga T-shirt and jacket, Peter Marco jewelry, Louis Vuitton eyewear.
Ramona Rosales
And it certainly no longer looks like the ever-busy multihyphenate — who has released an album and two mixtapes since Tha Carter V — will stop recording any time soon; “retirement be damned” seems to now be his motto. According to Civil, Wayne has “quite a few singles” in the pipeline as both lead and featured artist. He and 2 Chainz are currently collaborating on ColleGrove II, the sequel to their 2016 collaboration. Though no release date has been set, Tha Carter VI is also in the works. Wayne recently wrapped 30 dates on his Welcome to Tha Carter Tour, where Drake, Chance the Rapper, Cam’ron and 2 Chainz made special appearances.
And he was in his element opening the ESPY Awards in July with an apropos performance of his 2008 hit “A Milli.” “He was being a true artist, rearranging the words to the song to make sure that it was curated to the event,” Swizz Beatz notes. “I thought that was genius.”
Meanwhile, Wayne continues to develop hip-hop’s next generation of talent, working with Civil and Maine to build his Young Money roster, which includes Allan Cubas, Drizzy P, Euro, Jay Jones, Lil Twist, Mellow Rackz and Yaj Kader.
“Wayne is the ultimate outlier. There was nobody in the history of the genre who sounded like him, looked like him, or released music like him. Everybody caught his wave and just tried to hang on for dear life,” says Republic Records founder and COO Avery Lipman (Young Money is distributed through Republic/Universal Music Group.) “It goes without saying he’s one of the greatest artists of all time, but he’s also one of the most visionary businessmen this industry has ever seen.”
It’s a humble, humorous, polite (“thank you, Miss Gail”), self-deprecating and brief, to-the-point Lil Wayne who sits down once again today with Billboard — this time in West Hollywood — to reflect on his legacy and hip-hop’s future against the backdrop of the genre’s 50th anniversary. With a disarming and sly, diamond-studded grin, Wayne underscores his deep-rooted love of hip-hop. “In my mind, every single time I say the word ‘work,’ I ask God to forgive me,” he says. “Cuz I know this has never been a job. It’s just a dream come true.”
Looking back on your career thus far, what does this momentous anniversary mean to you — and to hip-hop itself — since naysayers initially dismissed the fledgling genre as a fad?
I think it probably means more to me than I even know, because I am still in it, a deep part of it, and I’m still learning every day. Hip-hop will never be over. But I also think that maybe down the line, I’ll be able to answer that question better because I don’t think I know how much it means to me yet — because it means that much.
You signed with Cash Money before you were even a teen. Did you know that early that you could build a career as a rap artist?
I’ve been rapping since I was 7, actually. And I signed my deal when I was 11. I didn’t think about nothing else other than “We about to be the biggest everything.” (Laughs.) Like, I’m about to be this … I’m about to date her. I’m about to do … (Laughs again.) I was a kid, you know? It was like, what are you going [to want] for Christmas? As far as unforgettable moments go [back then], I would say that was probably my first time grabbing a mic as a kid at a block party, breaking my fear and rapping stuff that I had rapped in the mirror for, like, thousands of hours the night before.
Ethika T-shirt; Balenciaga jacket, pants and shoes; Peter Marco jewelry; Emotionally Unavailable hat.
Ramona Rosales
So given your early vantage point, what are the biggest changes you’ve seen happen in hip-hop?
Right now is the time where I see the most change in our genre, because back then, I think it was just progress more than change; progression from what was already set before us and also us honoring what was set before us. But now it’s not that no one’s honoring what was before them — it’s just that the world has changed thanks to social media. There was no such thing as social media when I started doing this. But social media has changed the genre and opened doors. That’s definitely what helped contribute to its going global. [Social media] is good and bad.
Want to give examples of the good and the bad?
No. (Laughs.)
What has been the hardest part of your journey?
The hardest part for me is not being able to do [my music], for whatever reason. Not being able to record. Not being able to tour or do a show. That’s always the hardest part.
What one career lesson have you carried along since the beginning?
Never, never stop learning. That’s how you humble yourself. Humility goes a long way and it’ll keep you learning. I just try to get better and better and better.
Did you ever subscribe to the notion that hip-hop is only a young man’s game?
No, never. Because when I was growing up, all the rappers were way older than me. So I don’t know what that notion or narrative was, because it was never a young man’s game to me. I’ve always felt I had to fight my way in when I was a young man.
You’ve mapped a blueprint in terms of musical innovation and entrepreneurial pursuits like your Trukfit fashion line, the Young Money APAA Sports agency, the cannabis brand GKUA Ultra Premium and other business ventures. How do you perceive the role you’ve played in that aspect of rap’s evolution?
Expanding yourself and becoming a brand, getting involved in other businesses … the small part that I’ve played is probably just setting an example for those watching me and those coming after me. And with that said, I got that from watching Jay-Z, Reverend Run and Russ [Simmons] move. How they never stopped and just evolved, [especially] the way Jay has evolved. (Laughs.) I’m trying to follow stuff like that. And hopefully those coming up under me will follow my footsteps.
Do you have a wish list of other business opportunities you’d like to pursue?
Oh, no. I don’t have a list. You limit yourself when you put a list together. (Laughs.) But I can guarantee there has to be a feeling that makes me go forward with any [business] decision that I make. So therefore I know that it is organic.
You underscored your electric stage presence with 2010’s Rebirth, your creative leap into rock after ventures into blending rap with pop and singing. What influence has that had on next-gen artists with similar vibes, like Lil Uzi Vert, Travis Scott, Young Thug and Trippie Redd?
Sometimes people ask me how I feel about everybody looking like me, everybody getting tattoos, etc. That’s like seeing your kid come out of the room and looking just like you; it feels amazing. So the visible influence is kind of obvious because I know for a fact I didn’t get this look from anyone. There was no one that inspired this look. I just ran into looking like this. (Laughs.) But other than that, I hope that my work ethic [is influential as well].
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How would you describe your work ethic? You seem like a 24/7 studio guy.
Exactly. So when other artists get around me, you know, they can smell that. It is impossible for them not to. And whenever they leave, they leave with something, as they remember that smell. And hopefully it does something for them.
So is your phone ringing off the hook with people asking you for advice?
No, not advice, not at all. That’s because they don’t have my number. (Laughs.) I have three sons and a beautiful daughter who get the advice.
On Billboard’s recent GOAT list of hip-hop’s top 50 artists, you landed at No. 7, between The Notorious B.I.G. at No. 6 and Drake at No. 8. What did you think of your placement?
That’s awesome. You would be happy to be anywhere on that list.
So which rappers would be in the top five of your own GOAT list?
There’s no specific order, but it’s simple. For me, it’s always been Missy Elliott, Jay-Z, UGK, Goodie Mob and Biggie.
Why those five? What’s the throughline for you in terms of their place in the genre’s evolution?
It’s because I organically grew up on [them]. You know, when you’re asked, “How’d you start listening?,” there’s a story for everybody … like, someone I know told me to start listening or whatever. But like I said, every decision I make is organic.
What does it take to break new hip-hop artists today?
Today, you have to know social media. If you don’t, you have to have a team that does. That said, the main thing today is what it has been yesterday and the day before yesterday: You just have to have real talent. Real, everlasting and undeniable talent. That’s how you still break an artist. Once you find that in an artist, then use and highlight that as much as you can, because it’s hard. There are lots of artists that want to be exactly what they see [and hear] on social media. They just want to be that instead of being what they actually can be. So get them to believe in what they are and what they truly can be. And even if it is a challenge, that challenge has always been one of the most fun things ever for me. I love it.
What exactly do you say or do when working with and developing new artists, since, as you just said, it’s so difficult to rise above everything that’s out there?
That you have to be at least good in whatever genre that you’re attacking, whether it’s hip-hop or not. And then you have to be willing to work as hard as you can to turn that good around into great. So come high at me, and you’ll be talking about the greatest. It’s that plain and simple. There are no keys. You just need to believe in what you’ve got and what you’re attacking, if you believe in it. Show me. Think harder, you know? Challenge yourself.
Ramona Rosales
What’s been your own secret to longevity?
I don’t have a secret. I just work. I just keep going. I never stop. It’s just the work ethic, plain and simple. No more, no less; I don’t do nothing but my music. And also, in my mind, every single time I say the word “work,” I ask God to forgive me. Cuz I know this has never been a job. It’s just a dream come true. So that’s why I’ve never stopped.
Is it difficult for you to say that to someone who’s not there yet?
Not at all. I can’t tell any other artists that. But if you’re my artist, oh hell, yeah. I’ll let them know. You better go do that sh-t again. (Laughs.)
What are your thoughts on the growing ranks of women rappers? Why has it taken so long for this to happen?
My answer would be, honestly, that it just wasn’t as interesting to women, I don’t think, in the way that Nicki [Minaj], Meg [Megan Thee Stallion] and others are. It’s awesome. I don’t think they looked at or viewed it as something that they wanted to do and actually make a living from it. That’s another part of it. They probably didn’t look at this as something that they could make a living out of.
And perhaps the industry has become a bit more open-minded, too?
Oh, yeah. Definitely. We’re here for everything now.
Where is the future of hip-hop headed — any trends that you’re noticing?
Obviously, always up and bigger and better. Also, what I’m seeing now is the art and the ultimate artist being able to do anything. It’s like when you and I were talking about basketball. Back then, we were looking for a Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar]; if you were tall, we wanted you in the paint. Not even knowing how to shoot a three-pointer; we didn’t even want to see that. Now we’ve got these seven-footers coming in, and we need you [to] know how to dribble like Allen Iverson, how to shoot like Steph Curry. You need to know how to defend like GP [Gary Payton]. And that’s the ultimate artist. I believe that that’s where the genre is headed: artists able to do everything — from singing to tapping into different emotions.
What’s your opinion on artificial intelligence and its potential effect on creativity?
Someone asked me about that recently. And they were trying to tell me that AI could make a voice that sounds just like me. But it’s not me, because I’m amazing. I’m like, is this AI thing going to be amazing too? Because I am naturally, organically amazing. I’m one of a kind. So actually, I would love to see that thing try to duplicate this motherf–ker.
In the wake of AI and other emerging technology, have mixtapes lost their relevance?
The terminology or definition has changed, that’s all. Mixtapes can mean an album mix or anything now. But when it comes to Lil Wayne, everybody knows how I approach mixtapes. So my mixtapes won’t ever change.
Any hints as to what fans can expect when you perform Aug. 11 at the hip-hop 50th anniversary concert at Yankee Stadium?
Do not set expectations for me, because I will always exceed them. So just go there with a clear mind, expect the best — and I’ll be better than that.
This story will appear in the Aug. 5, 2023, issue of Billboard.
Sexyy Red isn’t concerned with chasing hits. “I’m not even trying,” she tells Billboard over Zoom. “You just gotta be yourself and then they gonna f–k with you.”
She’s living proof: the 25-year-old (born Janae Wherry) is currently enjoying a breakout year thanks to her sexually explicit, Tay Keith-produced “Pound Town.” Since the trap single arrived in January, Sexyy Red has formed bonds with some of R&B and hip-hop’s biggest names, befriending Travis Scott and Drake (the latter has posted a picture with her on Instagram, and Sexyy Red has teased music together), and collaborating with Summer Walker and Nicki Minaj.
Her “Pound Town 2” remix with Minaj dropped in late May and became Sexyy Red’s first entry on the Billboard Hot 100 the following month, debuting at No. 66. Still, she remains blasé toward her A-list interactions. “I already know I’m a cool, f–k-witable person,” she says.
It’s not surprising that the St. Louis native has maintained her nonchalant attitude amid her rise. After all, it’s what helped put her on the map: According to co-manager Caprie Poe — who is also general manager at Miami-based label Rebel Music — Sexyy Red first caught the attention of an A&R rep at the label in 2021 with her 2018 single “Free Smoke.” “[She] was super raw and authentic,” says Poe. “She always says what’s on her mind.” Case in point: the “Pound Town” lyric that has taken the internet by storm (“I’m out of town, thuggin’ with my rounds/My c–chie pink, my booty h–e brown”).
Cartier eyewear from Spencer Shapiro.
Devin Christopher
The rapper signed to Rebel Music and released her debut project, Ghetto Superstar, that December to local acclaim. But co-manager and Rebel Music founder/CEO Javier “Jay” Sang says the team was dedicated to growing her national audience: “We treat Sexyy Red as a 24-hour, seven-days-a-week business.”
Their strategy paid off last fall, when they encouraged Sexyy Red to follow up with Tay Keith (who she was acquainted with), leading the Grammy-nominated producer to send her the beat to what became “Pound Town.” Soon after, she was freestyling about a sexcapade with an ex-boyfriend during a Miami studio session. She remembers laughing with her friends throughout — but her team was more earnest. “They was like, ‘You playing on this man’s beat,’” she says. “I’m like, ‘Ain’t nobody trying to be serious all the time.’ Finally, they [said], ‘I understand your vision.’”
By February, she released a music video inspired by the reality show Cheaters, followed by a Miami spring break edition of the clip in March. The track has also found success on TikTok having been used in over 250,000 clips. There’s even a mashup of the song called “Frontin’ x Pound Town Simmy Mix,” where Chicago native DJ Simmy overlaid Red’s vocals on Pharrell and Jay-Z’s “Frontin’” beat. But the original song needed a final push to become a hit.
Sexyy Red photographed July 24, 2023 in Miami.
Devin Christopher
From left: Sexyy Red and co-manager Caprie Poe photographed July 24, 2023 in Miami. Cartier eyewear from Spencer Shapiro.
Devin Christopher
Around the same time, industry veteran Larry Jackson launched Gamma — a media company specializing in distribution, creative guidance, marketing and more — and signed Sexyy Red while building a roster that includes Snoop Dogg and Usher. (Sexyy Red also remains signed to Rebel Music.) “She immediately became a priority,” says Sang. “I know Larry for moving mountains and he was like, ‘What do you think about Nicki on the record?’ It was a no-brainer.”
As the song continues to grow, Sexyy Red knows that it’ll “never get old,” but is ready for people to start focusing on her other music. “SkeeYee,” another Tay Keith-produced track — and popular greeting call in St. Louis — on her June mixtape Hood Hottest Princess, has been gaining momentum of late.
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This summer has also included a Rolling Loud performance, and soon, a few opening slots for Moneybagg Yo on tour. She’ll eventually embark on her first headlining trek, with dates and locations yet to be announced, but for now, she’s letting her team handle her business affairs. “I’m just the artist and they do what they do to make it happen for me,” she admits. “They ain’t trying to stress me out because I don’t even want to deal with no s–t like that.”
Instead, she’s focusing on what she does best: releasing one salacious, unapologetic song at a time, she says. “People think I’m crazy, but I feel like I’m just myself.”
Sexyy Red photographed July 24, 2023 in Miami.
Devin Christopher
A version of this story will appear in the Aug. 5, 2023, issue of Billboard.