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When veteran concert promoter Louis Messina weighs adding an act to Messina Touring Group’s impressive stable of superstar artists, his eyes aren’t focused on the stage. Instead, he’s intently surveying the concert audience. “I watch eyes and lips: eyes, if they’re really focusing on the artists, and lips, if they’re singing along and if they’re smiling,” he says. “When I see that happening, that’s when I know I need to be involved. It’s rare that you see artists that can do that and [aren’t] just going through the motions. You know they bring this unique connection.”
Messina knows that feeling well; he remembers first experiencing it at just 7 years old, when his father took him to see Elvis Presley in his hometown of New Orleans. “I’ve never forgotten that energy in that room,” Messina says. “It was a feeling that I’ve never had before, and I’ve carried it until today. When artists and an audience connect with each other, it’s magical.”
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Seventy years later, Messina and his enviable roster have created plenty of magic together, too. The Messina Touring Group origin story began in 2001 with acts including his longtime client George Strait — and since then, each of the artists Messina exclusively promotes has been within one or two degrees of separation from the country legend (with the sole exception of The Lumineers). Taylor Swift, Kenny Chesney, Blake Shelton, Eric Church and Old Dominion all once opened for Strait; then Ed Sheeran and Shawn Mendes both opened for Swift.
Simply put, Messina says, without Strait “there wouldn’t be a Messina Touring Group.” But Messina’s own story started way earlier. His promoting career got off to a dubious start in New Orleans in 1972 when he sold out a Curtis Mayfield/B.B. King show — only to have the artists get stuck in Atlanta, unable to get to the gig. “I had 8,000 people trying to break the doors down to get their money back. The New Orleans riot squad had to come out,” he recalls. He learned a valuable lesson: “After I got over my depression, I had to go back into the ring. I got knocked down, but I didn’t get knocked out.”
After a tumultuous run in New Orleans, in 1975, Messina and his mentor and fellow promoter, Allen Becker, formed PACE Concerts in Houston. They introduced several new concepts into the live-event business, including touring multi-artist festivals such as the George Strait Country Festival and OzzFest, and were the first promoters to own outdoor sheds, starting with Nashville’s Starwood Amphitheater. Messina and Becker quickly realized they could reap the rewards of, as the late Becker used to say, the revenue from “popcorn, peanuts and parking” — and, in turn, greatly mitigate the financial risk of promoting concerts.
In 1997, Robert F.X. Sillerman bought PACE for $130 million as his SFX Entertainment consolidated the promotion business. In 2001, Messina launched Messina Touring Group, and in 2003, he partnered with AEG. His noncompete clause allowed him only to promote country acts, and he started with a passel that included Strait and Chesney, both of whom he still promotes. “Nobody else was paying attention to country acts back then,” Messina says. “What I did was take a little rock’n’roll mentality and brought it to Nashville; meaning I’m not going to do the same old same old.” He also gave each act its own dedicated team that they consistently work with from tour to tour.
On the fall day that Billboard speaks with the voluble Messina, now 77 and a father of six, he is at his desk in Austin. (Messina Touring Group’s 35 employees — 70% of whom are women — are spread between its Austin and Nashville offices.) “This is the time of the year where I’m busiest because I’m prepping for next year and the year after,” he says.
Still, he’s able to take a moment to look back. Last year was his company’s most successful yet, he says, with 2024 coming in second. Swift doesn’t report her concert totals to Billboard, but Billboard estimates her 2023 shows for The Eras Tour grossed $906.1 million (the tour will end Dec. 8). In 2024, Chesney completed his highest-grossing outing yet, according to Billboard Boxscore, with $159.5 million for the Sun Goes Down Tour, which ended in August. And Strait remains big business: His June 15 concert at Texas A&M’s Kyle Field set the all-time attendance record for a ticketed concert in the United States with 110,905 ticket-buying fans. “Everything’s clicking and so, you know, we’re happy,” Messina says.
But for Billboard’s 2024 Touring Executive of the Year, an artist’s potential career arc can’t be reduced to the success of any one tour.
“Louie isn’t a tour promoter. He’s an artist promoter… He’s a champion of not just the current tour he’s involved in with you, but your whole career,” says Church, who has worked with Messina for 12 years. “Louie always said to me, ‘You think your dreams are big, but you’ll never out-dream me.’ ”
Louis Messina
Jasmine Archie
Your father was a boxing promoter. Though you’ve said he didn’t influence you because your passion was music, what did you learn from him about taking risks?
I hate to say this because my dad’s passed away. He was a good man, but what I learned from him was what not to do. He was not a good businessperson. He did take me to see Elvis and exposed me to the excitement of what live music does. That’s what I’ve learned from my dad.
PACE pioneered the concept of touring artist festivals — multi-act events that would travel the country — but such stadium festivals are virtually gone now. Did local and regional festivals kill the touring artist festival?
I just ran out of talent. And the whole ego about “I’m not going to play in front of this guy… I need 110% billing… I need this. I need that” — it just wasn’t worth it. Then we started building amphitheaters and we made more money doing an amphitheater show than we did [promoting] stadium shows.
Two years into starting Messina Touring Group, you partnered with AEG. How does that relationship work?
I operate totally independent of AEG. Hell, a lot of times I’m competing with AEG over tours. They have their model, Live Nation has their model, and I have my model. My model is about careers, not tours. I always say I’m not in the rent-a-band business. I want to know what that artist’s vision is five and 10 years from now.
Legendary booking agent Wayne Forte unintentionally provided you with a light-bulb moment that changed your approach when you started Messina Touring Group. What did he say?
I was booking amphitheaters, and I referred to artists as inventory, and Wayne goes, “I’m sorry, Louis, did you just call artists inventory?” Literally, it stopped me in my tracks. I went, “I sure did.” At that moment, it totally reset my mind and where I was going in this business. I [wouldn’t] say I’d lost the passion, but I was a promoter that was just trying to sell popcorn and peanuts and parking. And I’m going, “This is not why I got in the business.” I got into the business because I love the passion of it. I changed my whole mentality at that point.
Most of your clients came from being opening acts for artists you were already promoting. Do you advise your acts on their openers?
With Kenny and George, I’m totally involved. Taylor always picks her opening acts. I’m involved with some and with others, I follow their lead. I believe there’s no such thing as overkill. Give the people their money’s worth. I’ve got George and Chris Stapleton and Little Big Town playing stadiums together and Zac Brown Band playing with Kenny. It’s magical.
The newest star in your orbit is Megan Moroney, who recently opened for Kenny Chesney even though you hadn’t seen her perform beforehand. Will she become your next client?
I’d love to work with her. I think she’s amazing. [Chesney’s manager] Clint [Higham] and I were talking about Kenny’s support and we brought up Megan Moroney. Kenny goes, “She’s only got one hit.” I go, “This album is so deep. Kenny, I’m telling you, this is going to work.” I’d never seen her perform, I just listened to her music and her songwriting. We put her on, and oh, my gosh, I’ve never seen Kenny so excited about an artist. He called me and he goes, “Louis, you were right. I was wrong.” But it didn’t take long for Kenny to recognize because Megan is such a natural star.
The production on Swift’s The Eras Tour is unlike anything that fans have seen. Has it changed what can be done onstage?
What Taylor has done is to me the best show I’ve ever seen. She amazes me night after night. She’s one of a kind. She’s always been like that. I’ve known her since she just turned 17… I always tell people, “You think you’re working? Go sit around Taylor for 15 minutes.” I remember when she was the first of three acts with Strait. She was the first one in the production office every day after visiting radio [stations], handwriting notes to people around the country. Ed’s the same way, Eric’s the same way, in their own way. None of the artists I work for is dialing anything in. They’re working their ass off.
The Ticketmaster site crashed when the Eras tickets went on sale, upsetting fans and leading to an antitrust suit against Live Nation and Ticketmaster. In hindsight, what could you have done differently?
When you have 15 million people trying to buy a million tickets, nothing could handle that. When we started adding shows, what [Swift’s management company] 13 and everybody decided to do was to stagger on-sales where instead of putting five shows up at once, we would put one show up at a time. Everybody’s blamed Ticketmaster, but I use this analogy: Imagine getting into a subway car in New York City. It holds 40 people, but 1,000 people are trying to get in that subway car. It just doesn’t work. They can’t get in. That’s what happened.
What’s the biggest change you’ve seen in negotiating artists’ fees over the last 10 years?
The biggest thing is [other promoters] playing with house money. These touring deals that some of my friends and competitors make, it’s ridiculous. The sales pitch [is] “What’s it going to take financially?” I don’t believe in that because if you’re tied to a check that somebody wrote to you, that means you have to play so many shows, your ticket price has to be this. You lose control of your own destiny. My trying to compete with a checkbook, that’s the hardest part I have because my sales pitch is “Let’s talk about the future. Let’s talk about your dreams.” Do what you’re supposed to do and the money will be there. If you chase the money, you’ll never get there.
Ed Sheeran has talked about trying to keep ticket prices low. Is there something other acts can learn from him?
No. This is one thing that’s wrong with artists that [want to price tickets too low]. Ed goes, “Louis, I want to go to bed at night knowing that this is the ticket price I wanted my fans to pay.” I go, “Ed, you’re beautiful for saying that, but here’s the problem: People are going to go to the secondary market and spend $700 on a ticket that you want to sell for $99… and you’re only going to get $99 of it.” I remember a long, long time ago working with George and his tickets were really reasonable and I did a printout of StubHub or whatever and said, “This is how much your tickets are being sold for right now.” And his eyes got big, and it was like a “Holy crap” moment for him. He had no idea.
Which acts are on your wish list?
I love Bruce Springsteen. I adore [Springsteen’s manager] Jon Landau and [tour manager] George Travis. They are all like family to me even though I don’t promote Bruce anymore these days because [Springsteen’s longtime agent] Barry Bell said I was too cheap, that I wouldn’t do the Bruce Springsteen deal. I don’t work at a discount price. My other fantasy [act] is Beyoncé. I adore her. Sometimes it’s cheaper to just buy a ticket than to get involved with the artists you love.
You spend a tremendous amount of time on the road. What’s your best travel tip?
My best travel tip I gave myself is I stopped drinking. This Christmas will be two years. I figured me and Jack Daniel’s had a good run together.
Any thoughts about retiring?
Seeing an artist go from an opening act to a stadium act and knowing that I had a little bit to do with it and walking into that sold-out stadium and seeing that energy… Wow! Why would I want to give that up? I’m the luckiest human being in the world.
Messina will receive Billboard’s inaugural Touring Titan honor at its Live Music Summit & Awards on Nov. 14.
This story appears in the Oct. 26, 2024, issue of Billboard.
In 2024, the average merchandise campaign consists of 50 pieces of artwork that can easily be adapted for use on varied tour and direct-to-consumer items, says Matt Young, president of Bravado, Universal Music Group’s merch and brand management company. But for Olivia Rodrigo’s GUTS campaign, he says, “I think we’ve done at least 375 unique pieces of art.”Rodrigo’s singular vision for her first arena tour extended to the products sold at its kiosks. As the album rollout and tour details came together last year, the pop star coordinated with management, Bravado and label partners to ensure that each piece of merch “felt cohesive to the greater GUTS world,” says Michelle An, Interscope Geffen A&M president/head of creative strategy.
The number of items kept ballooning as Rodrigo leaned into the creative process, with a literally hands-on approach to identifying opportunities — from concocting mood boards to helping create color palettes to touching fabrics to ensure T-shirt quality. “This was Olivia saying, ‘I think this could be more. How do we do it?’ ” Young recalls.
Some highlights of Rodrigo’s GUTS merch line include unique jewelry (silver crescent moon rings and star necklaces, a nod to the tour’s set design), a butterfly design on tote bags and pool floats, an elastic bandage tin to store “vampire”-ready Band-Aids and, ahead of Netflix’s Oct. 29 release of her tour film, a set of five GUTS popcorn boxes, perfect for a premiere-night group hang. Along with the souvenirs that are now widely available at Rodrigo’s online shop, Young also points out that her various retail partners, ranging from global fashion chains to suburban Targets, also featured their own exclusive items: “The Zara in Europe has to have something different than the Hot Topic in the U.S.”
And just as Rodrigo ended each show sporting a tank top with a cheeky message customized for each city, every GUTS tour stop with multiple shows offered customized merch, including city-specific T-shirts and unique concert artwork designed in conjunction with local female artists. Rodrigo and Bravado approached the posters (shown below) as the ultimate collectible item — and once word got out about them early in the live run, fans started arriving to shows hours early to hit the merch booth.
“Is it logistically challenging? Sometimes, yes,” Young admits. “But it’s offset by the passion. You’re helping build a relationship with a fan in a way that they can’t really get anywhere else.”
This story appears in the Oct. 26, 2024, issue of Billboard.
At most huge pop tours, there’s a moment when shrieking fans reach a true fever pitch — when the lights dim right before the show begins, or when the intro to the artist’s biggest hit kicks in, or during the break before the encore. All of those happened at Olivia Rodrigo’s first arena tour — but her favorite part of the show was when those eardrum-rattling cries were, in fact, mad as hell.
“When we play ‘all-american bitch,’ ” Rodrigo tells Billboard, “there’s a part at the end of the song where I ask the audience to think about something that pisses them off and then tell them to scream about it when the lights go off.” On the opener to her 2023 album, GUTS, Rodrigo juxtaposes folksy, facetious calm in the verses with enraged pop-punk in the refrain as she lays out society’s double standards for young women before unleashing a piercing wail. For nearly a hundred nights this year, the singer-songwriter has closed her main set by adding her own scream to an arena already full of them. “It’s definitely cathartic for me,” she says, “and I hope it is for the audience as well.”
The same could be said of the entire GUTS tour, where Rodrigo’s fans worldwide found the space to release their pent-up energy, as well as their excitement about one of the decade’s biggest new superstars. After bursting into the spotlight in 2021 with her debut album, Sour, and its No. 1 smashes “drivers license” and “good 4 u,” the former Disney+ TV star won the Grammy Award for best new artist in 2022 and quickly ascended to pop’s A-list. Yet the 2022 tour supporting Sour primarily played theaters, had to navigate lingering COVID-19 concerns and catered to a limited number of international markets, as Rodrigo, then 19, found her sea legs as a live performer.
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Two years later, the rock-fueled GUTS became another commercial triumph: Lead single “vampire” also topped the Billboard Hot 100, and the album scored one of 2023’s 10 biggest debut weeks. And this time, Rodrigo was prepared for arena audiences. The GUTS tour featured more than double the number of dates as her Sour trek while traveling to four continents (South America will become the fifth in March 2025) and grossed $186.6 million, according to Billboard Boxscore — even with its 1.4 million tickets sold at an average price of $128.81, in line with price-conscious acts like Coldplay and P!nk, and less than that of several major pop arena shows.
As for the show itself, “I actually made GUTS with the concert in mind,” Rodrigo says. “It’s so much fun to play songs that are more driving and heavy. I had a great time performing that aspect of the show every night.” Here’s how it all went down.
In her dressing room backstage.
Sami Drasin
‘She Knew Exactly What It Was That She Wanted’
As GUTS came together, so did plans for an accompanying tour that amplified every aspect of Rodrigo’s previous live run — bigger venues, more countries — all guided by a more defined point of view from the superstar at its center.
Aleen Keshishian (co-manager, Lighthouse Management + Media founder/CEO): Olivia had creative tour ideas when she was still writing GUTS, even before we had signed a deal with Live Nation or hired anyone for the tour. She already had visual references, voice notes, images.
Zack Morgenroth (co-manager, Lighthouse Management + Media partner): That gave us a lot of time to plan, and put together the right team, and get the show right.
Jason Danter (tour production manager): I connected with Zack and Aleen in March 2023; at that point, I was deep into getting the Beyoncé [Renaissance] tour up and running. I met Olivia when she came to the Beyoncé show at SoFi Stadium [in Inglewood, Calif.].
Tarik Mikou (creative director, Moment Factory): We’ve been working with Olivia for a while — we did her first live TV performance [on Saturday Night Live] and did the Sour tour, so I was really happy to get a call back for the GUTS tour.
Melissa Garcia (choreographer): They called me in for the Sour tour, and Olivia and I really meshed. A trusting environment [and] being able to have back-and-forth conversations is so important, especially when it comes to movement and putting artists in vulnerable situations.
Jared Braverman (senior vp of touring, Live Nation): It was very clear from initial conversations that the goal of this tour was to be global — to get to markets that Olivia had never been to and continue to grow by not just focusing on major cities. [Olivia] is massive everywhere. That’s a challenging thing to navigate — making time and space for all of these markets.
Morgenroth: The Sour tour was her first time out on the road and was a huge underplay, given the success of the album.
Dave Tamaroff (partner, WME): Her last tour could have been in arenas, based on everything she had going on.
Michelle An (president/head of creative strategy, Interscope Geffen A&M): There were a lot of conversations about [arenas] on the last tour, and ultimately, Olivia was the final decision-maker — she felt like she needed to do the theater run to get to know the fans in a more intimate way.
Sami Drasin
Morgenroth: There was so much demand from fans this time around that Live Nation said to us that arenas now felt like an underplay — we probably could have done stadiums everywhere. That being said, there was so much preparation for an arena tour: choosing each venue, making sure we had a good cadence for her. We tended to do only four shows in a week and never three shows in a row.
Tamaroff: We were surgical in our approach to the routing.
Morgenroth: Olivia cares so deeply about the fan experience, and that was also so key in the pricing of the tickets, which could have been priced for so much more. Everything, from having the Silver Star program — where fans could get a limited number of tickets everywhere around the arena for something like $20 — to looking at the landscape of touring artists and trying to price our tickets somewhere in the middle of them, was very intentional.
Keshishian: [Silver Star] was something that Coldplay had first done with Live Nation. Jared Braverman suggested it and Olivia loved it.
Braverman: [Pricing] takes a level of restraint, where you look at what you can do versus what you should do. You’ve got a young audience that’s very connected to Olivia, and we wanted to make this tour accessible for them.
Keshishian: We spent a lot of money on this tour, [but] we were incredibly judicious, going over every single line item in the budget to make sure we were spending money on the things that mattered to Olivia.
Garcia: Olivia is the captain of the ship — right from the very beginning, she knew exactly what it was that she wanted.
Mikou: We had like, 15 meetings, in Zoom and in person. She had reference boards on Pinterest. She would show us an image and be like, “I would love something like that in the show,” and give us these leads.
An: We definitely wanted fans to get to know the album. It wasn’t straight from the album release [in September 2023] into the tour [which began in February 2024].
Heather Picchiottino (costume designer): Olivia’s songwriting progression from Sour to GUTS felt very raw and up-front, so we wove punk rock through [the tour’s production].
Olivia Rodrigo: I tried to make the concert feel like my own spin on a rock show. My dream was for people to jump and scream and be all sweaty by the end.
Mikou: When you get to the dress rehearsals and start seeing the ideas pushed forward — we knew we had something special with this show.
The band.
Sami Drasin
Sami Drasin
‘It’s So Much Bigger in Every Way’
When the GUTS tour kicked off at Acrisure Arena in Palm Springs, Calif., on Feb. 23, Rodrigo unveiled a multi-act, visually striking stage show with dancing, wailing guitars and even a giant, suspended crescent moon for her to sit on while circling the audience.
Daisy Spencer (touring guitarist): We rehearsed so much leading up to the kickoff. We were so ready and eager to finally perform the show in front of people who were hearing it for the first time.
Garcia: Instead of reaching a few thousand people, she was in a much larger environment — which puts a lot more pressure on her.
Keshishian: There’s no comparison between theaters and arenas, in terms of prep.
Spencer: It’s so much bigger in every way. The energy on the Sour tour was palpable, like we were beginning something very exciting and everyone in the room could feel it. But I couldn’t have ever imagined what the GUTS tour would be like.
Rodrigo: An arena feels wildly different than a theater to me.
Garcia: One of the big notes that I would say [to Olivia] was “Invite the audience in”: Open your chest up, allow them in. And she absolutely did that. Between the Sour tour and this tour, she is absolutely way more comfortable in her skin.
Picchiottino: Olivia had so many iconic looks on the Sour tour, and some of the detailing in them were bows or little ruffles or tulle fabric. We really contrasted that with GUTS, with references to punk rock through clean, ’90s, minimal silhouettes, made out of fabrics that were metal mesh jewelry as opposed to a tissue fabric.
Mikou: We worked on creating four acts in the show. We start really strong with an energetic vibe, but we also go into her vocal range early on with “vampire” and “drivers license.” And then in the second act, we embark on a visual journey with dancers.
The dancers.
Sami Drasin
Keshishian: In terms of choreography, she didn’t want it to feel like a traditional pop show where the dancers can sometimes overpower the music. I think the dancers are only in six numbers.
Danter: It’s primarily a younger audience that wants to see her and hear her, so it doesn’t have to be overly complicated visually.
Garcia: We wanted to create a visceral reaction from her fans, and for Olivia, a rock approach was extremely important, so she wasn’t quite sure if she wanted to use dancers. We came up with utilizing the dancers in a very unique way to match her creative intention.
Mikou: And then in the third act, she’s flying on the moon.
Keshishian: From the very first conversation we had with her, she said, “I’d love to fly on a moon over my audience.”
Mikou: We had about 60 stars all around to create this immersive vibe in the arena, and the moon was on a 260-foot linear flying track and was a light box as well.
Garcia: Riding around the venue on the moon — that was another way for her to feel like she really gave every single person her time.
Mikou: That act has these big visual moments, but it’s also really simple and elegant at times, like “making the bed,” where’s she rising alone on a lift, surrounded by fans and their iPhone lights.
Keshishian: And then you have these beautiful acoustic moments where she’s just with Daisy [who’s playing] guitar at the edge of the thrust, and it’s just about the lyrics and her voice.
Spencer: That was all Olivia’s idea, and I feel so honored to sit next to her while we all have a giant group therapy session together on “happier” and “favorite crime.” I’m almost on the verge of tears when we finish that section because it’s such a beautiful feeling to hear everyone singing along with us.
Mikou: We ended with the punk-rock vibe in the fourth act, exploding everything at the end with the full band and fire on the screens.
Picchiottino: I think my favorite moment is the start of act four, when the chaos comes into the show. Olivia enters in this red romper in this foil fabric, and with the color of the lighting, it just signals this incredible energy.
Mikou: My personal favorite moment is probably “obsessed.” She gets on the plexiglass and starts to look at her audience, but with the camera below [the stage, feeding into the arena screens], it’s just such a strong image. That’s Olivia 2.0: so rock’n’roll, so much guitar, so much attitude.
Danter: Olivia turned 21 a couple of days before opening night, and as somebody with such short touring experience, she’s very, very professional.
Sami Drasin
Sami Drasin
Keshishian: She gets to the venue every single day six hours early. She practices the piano, she does vocal warmups, she does cardio. She does her sound check before literally every show, even on multiple nights in the same venue, which very few artists do.
Danter: Most artists don’t get that discipline until they’ve got a number of tours under their belt. But by [the opener in] Palm Springs, we were all like, “We’ve got nothing to worry about here.”
Rodrigo: The first dozen shows or so, it was a big adjustment for me, energywise. I had to really learn how to look up and take in the space. You definitely perform differently when you’re performing to that many people.
Danter: And now she’s an arena headliner, and it’s as if she’s been doing it for a long, long time.
‘These Gatherings Have Become Like a Ritual’
As Rodrigo traveled North America in early spring, Europe before summer, North America (again) in July and August, and Asia in early fall, fans around the world learned about the tour’s unofficial dress code, viral moments, philanthropic goals — and the superstar-in-waiting who opened its first leg.
Keshishian: Tour support is something that we talked about very early on. The Sour tour had Gracie Abrams opening, and then Chappell Roan opened in San Francisco on the last Sour date in North America.
Remi Wolf (opener, GUTS European leg): I was told that Olivia very carefully curated the openers for the show, so it was a major deal when we got the original call.
Keshishian: Olivia has this incredible knowledge of and reverence for female artists, in particular people who paved the way for her, like Alanis Morissette and Sheryl Crow and Bikini Kill. Her mom introduced her to a lot of these artists, including The Breeders. I went with her to see them play at the Wiltern [in October 2023] and was so excited to meet Kim and Kelley [Deal] backstage, and they agreed to open for her in New York and L.A.
Kim Deal (singer-guitarist, The Breeders): [Olivia] has talked about how, you know, “The Breeders broke my mind — there was pre-‘Cannonball’ and there was post-‘Cannonball.’ ” And I think she likes loud guitars — in this day and age! She finds loud guitars exciting and wants to be around them.
Sami Drasin
Tamaroff: She did four shows [with The Breeders] in New York and six in Los Angeles, and she really could have done a dozen more, based on demand.
Morgenroth: [The openers] are, in part, a tribute to Olivia’s ear. She’s known Chappell for a while. She’s always thought she was an incredible artist.
Rodrigo: Having her on the first leg of the GUTS tour was so much fun. I’m inspired by her so much as an artist, but she’s also been such a good friend to me over the years and she really helped me through some of the more stressful parts of the tour.
Braverman: We all knew what a talented artist and great performer [Chappell] is and hoped that fans would be as excited as we all were for her to be joining on these shows. The initial response was positive, but it wasn’t until the tour got underway that we started to see a shift that literally grew more each and every show.
Keshishian: Chappell was a surprise guest in L.A. [in August, after opening for the tour in February and March]. People asked us if we were going to have guest performers at all six shows in L.A., and we didn’t feel that we needed surprises just for the sake of it. But having Chappell come back and seeing her perform in front of Olivia’s audience after all this time, after so much had happened [in her own career]? It was really fun.
Rodrigo: It’s been incredible to watch her get the recognition she so rightfully deserves. She’s just further proof that being unapologetically yourself always pays off.
Morgenroth: From the moment people arrived at the show, we wanted them to have a great experience, and that’s everything from the merch, where things were customized for each city, to activations outside on the [concourse] and outside of the venue, like the interactive tour bus that we put together with Interscope and partners like American Express.
An: As we continued putting out singles and videos from the album [before the tour], fans got a better idea of what to wear and how to style themselves, and then they all connected by the time the tour came.
Keshishian: It became a really fun night for fans to get dressed up in creative outfits that Olivia inspired.
Garcia: Olivia has created a very unique vocabulary, and I think that’s why songs like “love is embarrassing” became so large on social media, with people trying to learn the dance from the show.
Keshishian: Her “love is embarrassing” dance went viral, and all these kids were doing the dance with the little “L” on the forehead.
Morgenroth: There was this viral TikTok trend, “Am I Too Old To Be Here?,” that would be used at the shows because there were so many people of different ages attending. And then we have this “Dad Idea, Right?” moment, where the kids get a kick out of how many dads are enjoying the show.
Keshishian: In every city, she wore a different tank top [during the encore] that had these cheeky jokes about the city, like “Phuket, It’s Fine” in Bangkok or “Bad Idea, Innit?” in London.
Picchiottino: That was Olivia’s idea: “How fun would it be to have a new slogan for each city and make each show feel special?”
An: I think for the Livies, these gatherings have become like a ritual. They can scream at the top of their lungs about what’s bothering them and be a little more alternative or punk, but at the same time be feminine and girlie. You just see everything that Olivia stands for being celebrated.
Fans turn out in their GUTS best.
Sami Drasin
Sami Drasin
Keshishian: Before the tour began, it was important to Olivia to add a charitable component and do something that would have a lasting impact after the tour was over. That became the Fund 4 Good, and it was focused on what is important to her, which is helping women and girls. We vetted each organization in every country that Olivia toured in, and we wanted to have a very localized impact because obviously women in different countries have different needs.
Rodrigo: Being on tour [so soon] after Roe v. Wade got overturned made activism very important — especially considering I performed in many states that currently have abortion bans in place, I wanted to do everything I could to support organizations in each territory that are doing essential work in providing access to health care and other human rights.
Morgenroth: We’ve tied it beyond the tour already — she did an Erewhon smoothie, and all of the proceeds from her side were given to the fund. This is something that is going to be part of everything from here on out.
Keshishian: Olivia performed in the Philippines for the first time in October — which was a dream of hers, as a Filipino American — and she wanted to do it as a gift, so all net proceeds will go to a local charity [women’s health care organization Jhpiego] through the Fund 4 Good.
Rodrigo: Through the fund, I’ve met lots of incredible people who are making such positive changes in the world, and I’ve learned so much. I look forward to learning more and continuing to champion causes I care about.
‘She’s Revealing Another Side of Herself’
As Rodrigo wrapped the GUTS 2024 run and prepares for the Oct. 29 release of its Netflix tour film, she has snapped into focus as a new-school arena rock performer with a fastidious streak.
Danter: When you get to rehearsals and everything starts to fall into place, a lot of artists and managers go, “OK, this is the show.” As we got closer to opening night, we were still getting notes from Olivia, Zack and Aleen. It’s that search for perfection, which is refreshing.
Garcia: There was that younger vibe about her on the Sour tour, a little sillier, and on the GUTS tour, she definitely is thinking more and every detail matters more, no matter how microscopic.
Picchiottino: I’ve really enjoyed the process of refining and refining, being so specific about the tour visuals. I think I have over 60 sketches on my iPad, for five looks.
An: You could really feel that she was more confident this go-round because she understood how things worked and knew what conversations to have. She was the boss of this.
Mikou: The evolution from the last tour, it’s almost like she’s revealing another side of herself.
Sami Drasin
Braverman: In a lot of ways, it’s like a throwback rock show. I don’t think a lot of these fans had experienced anything like that.
Keshishian: Most of the band was on the Sour tour, and every member is female or nonbinary. So for all these people watching, to see them rocking out in an arena, I think it’s really powerful.
Deal: She’s very respectful of the younger members of her audience — she knows they’re there, she’s very sweet with them, and she does not talk down to them at all. There are some cusswords and there are some loud guitars, and she expects them to be where she is. And I thought that was very cool.
Keshishian: Regarding the film, there are tens of millions of people that did not get tickets to this show, and we wanted to make sure that all of Olivia’s fans had the ability to see it. So we set up 22 cameras for the last two L.A. shows, and we chose Netflix to be our partner because they have the largest global reach.
Tamaroff: Watching her prove who she is as a global superstar… she’s one of the most talented singer-songwriters on the planet already, but being able to showcase her talent as a performer, hearing people say that this was one of the best nights of their lives, that’s why we all do what we do.
Garcia: With age comes a little bit more pressure, and I think it’s coming from herself: to be better, to figure out the next challenge for herself, to see where she can break through next. She just keeps growing.
Rodrigo: I wanted to make sure that I could still connect with the audience, even in a venue as big as an arena.
Rodrigo will be honored as 2024 Touring Artist of the Year at the Billboard Live Music Summit & Awards in Los Angeles on Nov. 14.
This story appears in the Oct. 26, 2024, issue of Billboard.
Hidden up a wooded hill in the sprawling backyard of his suburban Los Angeles estate, Dijon “Mustard” McFarlane is on the tennis court, perfecting his forehand.
“I’m an extremist,” the 34-year-old producer explains as he warms up his top spin. “I play every day, sometimes two times a day.” The L.A.-born musician, who shot to prominence at 21 when he produced Tyga’s 2011 hit “Rack City,” beckons his coach to serve again. After some rallying, Mustard slices a ball that nearly hits the Billboard cameraman kneeling beneath him, trying to get a close-up shot. “Oh, sorry! Man, you’re brave for sitting there,” Mustard says.
“I play, too; it’s cool,” the photographer replies, unfazed.
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“Aight, you’re one of us,” Mustard says with a grin, pointing at the man with his racket. For a second, it feels like the sportier version of a knighting ceremony.
He may still be polishing his tennis game, but after more than a decade of making hip-hop hits, Mustard scored an indisputable ace this year, reaching his highest career peak to date as the beat-maker behind Kendrick Lamar’s Billboard Hot 100 No. 1 “Not Like Us” — the biggest hit in Lamar’s spring beef with Drake. On the track, which cemented Lamar’s victory in the court of public opinion, the Pulitzer Prize winner is at his most venomous, using Mustard’s pop earworm of an instrumental as a Trojan horse for accusing Drake of being an Atlanta “colonizer” who steals sounds from local rappers and to resurface the serious allegations of Drake’s supposed predilection for underage girls.
But for such a hate-fueled anthem, “Not Like Us” also proved to be a uniting force for the world of West Coast hip-hop — unity by way of a common enemy. “When I was growing up, I watched 2Pac, ‘California Love,’ Dr. Dre, Snoop, the Death Row days,” says Mustard, who was born and raised in L.A.’s Crenshaw neighborhood. “It’s like being a part of that again, but in this day and age.”
The release of “Not Like Us” did plenty to galvanize the West Coast scene on its own, but Lamar further cemented its place in hip-hop history when he hosted The Pop Out — Ken & Friends, a Juneteenth concert at the L.A.-area Kia Forum. It was a show that was so sacred to L.A. natives that rival gangsters danced and sang to “Not Like Us” practically hand in hand onstage. To warm everyone up, Lamar enlisted Mustard to DJ a bevy of hits. But before literally popping out from under the stage, Mustard, a lifelong DJ typically confident in front of crowds, found himself on the verge of a panic attack. “I was nervous as s–t,” he confesses. “It just didn’t feel real.”
Aaron Sinclair
It was a full-circle moment for the producer, whose wide-ranging résumé — encompassing rap, R&B, EDM and pop — also includes hits like 2 Chainz’ “I’m Different,” Jeremih and YG’s “Don’t Tell ’Em,” Tinashe’s “2 On,” Ella Mai’s “Boo’d Up,” Lil Dicky and Chris Brown’s “Freaky Friday” and Rihanna’s “Needed Me.” “When I was a teenager, I’d write with YG in Inglewood [Calif.]. He used to live right across the street [from The Forum]. I made ‘Rack City’ across the street from there,” says Mustard, shaking his head in disbelief.
To start his set, Mustard walked up to his turntables, appearing calm and collected, even though he secretly wasn’t. After he fiddled with the knobs, the audio of a viral TikTok began: “The real takeaway from the Drake and Kendrick beef,” the voice of TikToker @lolaokola said, “is that it’s time for a DJ Mustard renaissance.” The crowd began to roar as the audio continued: “When every song on the radio was on a Mustard beat, we were a proper country. It was happier times. The closest we have ever been to true unity.”
After “Rack City” became a smash in 2012, the artist-producer then known as DJ Mustard seemed unstoppable. There was something about his simple formula of “a bassline, clap and it’s over… maybe an 808,” as he puts it, plus that catchy producer tag “Mustard on the beat, hoe!” that attracted pop purists and hip-hop heads alike, making his work go off both at the club and on the radio.
“Being a DJ, being in front of people and parties, I know what makes people move,” Mustard tells me between volleys with his coach. Every element of a Mustard track is done with clear intention to propel the song, not to clutter it. “I always used to tell Ty [Dolla $ign], ‘Man, you’re so musical, bro, but that s–t does not matter if they can’t hear what’s going on,’ ” Mustard recalls. “Simplicity is key for me and bridging the gap between that and the real musical s–t — but it still needs to be ratchet enough to be fun, too.”
Aaron Sinclair
He learned to use turntables from one of the best: his uncle and father figure, Tyrei “DJ Tee” Lacy, an L.A. DJ who frequently soundtracked parties for Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg and other local legends. Later in the day, I follow Mustard to Lacy’s restaurant, the District by GS on Crenshaw Boulevard. “This is where they got into it in Boyz n the Hood!” exclaims Mustard, gesturing to the street in front of the restaurant.
As he walks through the staff entrance and the kitchen, he daps up each person, his diamond-encrusted chain with a Jesus Christ pendant swinging as he moves. He sits down in a corner booth, and Lacy comes to join him. Mustard orders the usual: fried catfish. “Mustard as a child is the same as Mustard as an adult,” Lacy says. “He always cared about his craft — always.”
When Mustard was growing up, Lacy would often bring him along to his DJ gigs. One time, when he brought his nephew to a party in the Pacific Palisades, he had an ulterior motive. “I actually had [intentionally] double-booked myself,” Lacy says. “ ‘Don’t leave me,’ Mustard said. But I was like, ‘Oh, you’ll be all right. Just play that and play this, and you got it.’ ” Three hours later, he got a call from Mustard: “Come get me! The party was so cracking, they busted all the windows!”
From then on, music always paid the bills for Mustard, and he became the hottest DJ at Dorsey High School in Crenshaw. Within a few years, he would be one of the hottest producers in the world.
Amid the height of his early success, Mustard remembers a conversation he had with another radio-defining producer: Timbaland. “We were talking about the music industry,” he recalls. “He’s just like, ‘I want you to know, man, you’re not going to always be hot.’ ” Even though Mustard says he never let his ego get out of hand during those first years of success — his mother made sure of that — the caveat felt unfathomable at the time.
By the end of 2014, just two years after the peak of “Rack City,” Mustard seemingly had it all: 23 Hot 100 producer credits already, a new mansion on a hill outside the city, beautiful jewelry, even his own line of DJ Mustard mustard bottles. (Actually, he regrets that last one: “That was not an ‘I made it’ moment; that was a dumbass moment.”) Still, Timbaland warned him, “There’s going to be a time when nobody picks up your [calls] — soak this all in, and when that time comes, save your money… don’t panic,’ ” Mustard recalls. “And then it became a thing. And I was just like, ‘Ah, this is what [Tim] was talking about,’ and thank God I was ready for it.”
Mustard photographed September 16, 2024 at Johnnie’s Pastrami in Culver City, Calif.
Aaron Sinclair
As the decade wore on, his number of Hot 100-charting songs each year declined, from notching 14 in 2014 alone to between one and five each subsequent year. Still, a colder period for Mustard was better than what most musicians can ever dream of. And as time wore on, Mustard made the conscious choice to evolve. He focused on developing himself as not just a producer, but an artist in his own right. He started his own record label, 10 Summers, which launched the career of Grammy-winning R&B singer Ella Mai.
“I think with any producer, the ultimate goal is to break an artist. I believe that’s the hardest thing for a producer to do… I’m always for the challenge,” he says. It’s certainly something he has proved an aptitude for time and again, producing career-breakthrough tracks for artists like Mai, Tinashe, YG, Tyga and Roddy Ricch.
“You can’t be hot forever,” Mustard explains. “Even the best in the game… You have to reinvent yourself. And that’s what I did.”
Every hip-hop fan remembers where they were when “Not Like Us” dropped. Released the day after two other Lamar dis tracks, “6:16 in LA” and “Meet the Grahams,” no one saw it coming — not even the beat’s producers.
Mustard, for his part, was “on [my] way to a baby shower. Somebody sent me a message, and I was just like, ‘Oh, s–t,’ and then I hung up in their face, and I was just playing it over and over.” When he arrived at the baby shower, he could already hear the neighbors blasting it from over the fence.
Fellow “Not Like Us” beat-maker Sean Momberger was getting his car towed by AAA after a flat tire. “My friend texted me that Kendrick had dropped again,” he says. “I clicked on the link and heard our beat, and I was just shocked. I FaceTimed Mustard, and we were yelling and laughing.”
Mustard and Momberger were never in the studio with Lamar (or Sounwave, the song’s third credited producer and a longtime collaborator of the rapper) to make “Not Like Us.” The song started with Momberger sending Mustard some sample ideas and Mustard doing what he does best — “infectious” and “catchy” production with “a simplistic beauty driven by bouncy drums and West Coast undertone,” as Momberger describes it. But while the track stays true to the Mustard sound everyone knows, it also embodies how he has iterated it over the years to be fuller and more sample-driven.
Mustard texted it, along with about six other beats, to Lamar — who said nothing but reacted with a “heart.” Though he wasn’t in the room with Lamar this time, he had been in the studio with him before, years ago. Once, he says, Terrace Martin, a core musician on Lamar’s 2015 album, To Pimp a Butterfly, took him to one of that project’s sessions. “I remember seeing that s–t and being like, ‘Whoa, that’s a lot going on.’ With me and YG [Mustard’s most frequent collaborator], we didn’t have that many musicians around. That was my first time seeing s–t like that. Thundercat was there, Sounwave was there. Terrace was there… I knew [that album] was going to be some crazy s–t, but I didn’t know it would be like that.”
Though he couldn’t have predicted the impact To Pimp a Butterfly would have on culture, Mustard says he has a good intuition for hit records. “I don’t want to say I’m always right, but I’m pretty much on the money,” he notes. Mai agrees: “Mustard’s greatest strength is his ear.”
Aaron Sinclair
For all his success producing radio-ready singles, however, one-off collaborations don’t move Mustard like they used to. “I can do stuff like ‘Not Like Us’ every day,” he says. “I can do that with my eyes closed… In my next phase, I’m not doing singles,” he insists, though he does admit he would do “Not Like Us” again “100,000 times” without hesitation. “I’ll do [a single for an artist] if I can have the whole album or the majority of the album, but other than that, I don’t get anything out of that.”
It’s why he dropped his own album, Faith of a Mustard Seed, this summer, which features Ricch, Travis Scott (whose “Parking Lot” with Mustard went to No. 17 on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart), Ty Dolla $ign, Future, Young Thug and more hip-hop heavyweights. Mustard reckons the album (named after a suggestion by his late friend Nipsey Hussle) took him five years to perfect — the equivalent of a lifetime in popular music, especially hip-hop. During that time, rap went from being constantly atop the Hot 100 to weeks, months and even a whole year passing without a rap No. 1. Top players like Thug and Gunna went to jail; Nipsey, Young Dolph and Takeoff died; Ye went rogue. New faces like Yeat and 4batz popularized new styles; Afrobeats and reggaetón seeped into the American rap mainstream.
Still, Mustard believes Faith of a Mustard Seed warranted the wait. “There’s nothing on that album that I feel like in 10 years I’ll say, ‘Damn, I wish I did that better,’ ” he says. “I hope it teaches kids that you can take your time and do the right thing. You don’t have to rush it out. I think [the industry] today is just so fast-paced.”
Mustard hopes the perfectionism that drove both Faith of a Mustard Seed and “Not Like Us,” including Lamar’s own multifaceted bars, will encourage artists to “really rap now… I think now it’s opened the door for … the real rappers that love rap music and lyrics and the double, triple, quadruple entendres and all that s–t cool again.”
Aaron Sinclair
And he’s hoping — or rather, manifesting, sometime between waking up and hitting the tennis court — that this dedication to his craft will yield a Grammy next year. “I definitely speak it into existence every morning,” he says with a laugh. “The highest reward we can get as musicians is a Grammy. I know that people talk like it’s not a thing, but it actually is. It’s like Jayson Tatum right now saying, ‘I don’t want to win the NBA Finals.’ Like, if that’s the case, then go play at Venice Beach.”
Regardless of whether he takes home a trophy on Feb. 2, he knows he has something monumental to look forward to precisely a week later, when Lamar headlines the Super Bowl halftime show — where “Not Like Us” will no doubt get its biggest showcase yet. “Of course I’m going,” he says. “I’m going to go and be in a box and watch… I just can’t wait… I might shed a tear!”
Yet despite surreal moments like that, Mustard says his life is “still the same” as it always was. “I don’t take no for an answer. I’m persistent. Every day, I’m doing something that has to do with the journey of trying to get to where I’m trying to go. At this point, I don’t know how far I can go. I don’t think there’s a limit. I’ve always been like that. That’s how I got ‘Rack City’ — just waking up every day, making beats… and hoping.”
This story also appears in the Oct. 5, 2024, issue of Billboard.
It was a historic trip to the Grammy stage for Taylor Swift on Feb. 4, when she accepted her second and final award of the evening: album of the year, for her 2022 blockbuster set, Midnights. The win was her fourth in the category, breaking her out of a four-way tie and leaving her alone in the record books as the performing artist with the most album of the year wins in Grammy history. But by that point in the evening, Swift had already ensured that her fans were thinking more about the future — and perhaps AOTY trophy No. 5.
“I want to say thank you to the fans by telling you a secret that I’ve been keeping from you for the last two years — which is that my brand-new album comes out April 19,” Swift had revealed two hours earlier while accepting her first award of the night (best pop vocal album). “It’s called The Tortured Poets Department.”
A year after that announcement, Swift may indeed end up making more treks to the Crypto.com Arena stage thanks to the record-breaking Poets. While Midnights bowed with a jaw-dropping 1.6 million first-week units upon its October 2022 release (according to Luminate) and topped the Billboard 200 for six weeks — setting off the historic, globe-trotting Year of Taylor that followed in 2023 — it paled in comparison with Poets, which debuted with over 2.6 million units and spent a whopping 15 weeks atop the Billboard 200. Given that Swift has secured AOTY nominations for each of her three brand-new albums released this decade (including two wins, for Midnights and 2020’s folklore, of her four career total), Poets seems a lock for one of the eight AOTY slots at the 2025 ceremony.
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Whether Swift will win, however, is another question entirely — in part because of a remarkably strong and high-profile slate of likely competitors, including one particularly legendary perennial AOTY bridesmaid. But perhaps the most interesting question of all: After four AOTY wins, already unmatched in Grammy history, how much more does Swift really have to gain by adding another such statue to her collection?
While Swift has already triumphed among some strong fields this decade, it’s likely that the category’s 2025 slate of nominees — with its expected mix of huge critical and commercial successes from veteran A-listers and emergent superstars — will be the most formidable she has faced yet. Alex Tear, vp of music programming at SiriusXM and Pandora, mentions Billie Eilish (Hit Me Hard and Soft), Chappell Roan (The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess) and Sabrina Carpenter (Short n’ Sweet) as strong contenders for the marquee award, calling Carpenter “a force” in particular. “It’s really going to be a highly competitive year,” he says.
Still, the narrative surrounding the AOTY race will likely boil down to two names: Swift and Beyoncé, whose Billboard 200-topping country and Americana pivot, Cowboy Carter, will almost certainly also vie for the prize. Cowboy did only a fraction of Poets’ flabbergasting first-week numbers — though at press time, it still had the year’s second-highest debut total, at 375,000 units — but it received widespread acclaim, as well as immense media attention for its genre explorations and for the music history Beyoncé illuminated on it.
And of course, Carter’s candidacy comes with extra intrigue, given that Beyoncé — one of the most celebrated album artists of her era — has still never won album of the year, despite her four career nods for it (and record 32 total Grammy wins).
One longtime Recording Academy member who considers both Swift’s and Beyoncé’s new albums worthy contenders calls the latter “the prohibitive favorite” due to her careerlong shutout in the category. “I think that there’s a feeling in the industry, which was certainly encouraged via last year’s Grammys” — when her husband, Jay-Z, called attention to her AOTY shutout in a televised speech — “that [Beyoncé] has been overlooked for too long,” the member says.
Swift may well have less at stake in this year’s AOTY race than her storied competitor. In fact, because Swift is at the overall height of her career success and exposure (and therefore at risk of generating a backlash), it’s worth considering whether she stands to lose more than she does to gain by netting a fifth trophy, especially over a competitor with such a strong case — and such a strong sentimental pull for so many.
And public perception about a potential Swift victory could be colored by her own philosophy about the Grammys and awards shows in general. “She looks at record-making as a competitive sport in a way that other artists don’t,” the academy member says. “Other artists are competitive and would like to win Grammys, but she really, like, thinks about that stuff going in [to recording her albums].”
Swift has admitted as much over the years. In 2015, she explained in a Grammy Pro interview that when her Red lost AOTY in 2014 (to Daft Punk’s Random Access Memories), it set in motion her plan to make a more cohesive pop album with 1989, which won the award two years later: “You have a few options when you don’t win an award — you can decide, ‘Oh, they’re wrong…’ [or] you can say, ‘Maybe they’re right,’ ” she said. Similarly, her 2020 documentary, Miss Americana, captured her reaction when her 1989 follow-up, 2017’s Reputation, failed to garner even a nomination in the category: “I just need to make a better record.” (Two albums later, she would win the category again in 2021 for the stylistic left turn folklore.)
Competitiveness, of course, doesn’t equate to outright making Grammy bait, Tear points out — noting that it seems to have inspired Swift to grow artistically, while at the same time, “we’ve grown into her evolving as a person and the choices that she wants to make as an artist… The projects of late are not chasing where the puck is going — it’s already there.”
And though the Recording Academy member gives Beyoncé the edge in this particular race, it simply makes sense to them that the biggest pop star on the planet should be one of the favorites every time she’s in the mix.
“Look, [Swift] is the most popular recording artist on earth, and therefore she’s likely to win more often than not,” the member says, citing the famous Muhammad Ali quote, “It’s not bragging if you can back it up.” And Swift “can do it, God bless her. She should keep doing it. Maybe she’ll win album of the year several more times.”
This story appears in the Oct. 5, 2024, issue of Billboard.
Instead of doing her homework one day after school, the multihyphenate born Atia Boggs used her time for a different assignment. She had just bought Lauryn Hill’s The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill and recalls coming home, sitting down and writing all the lyrics on flash cards. “That’s when I realized how important a good song was and how substance matters,” says Boggs, now 37 and known as the songwriter–producer INK. “And that really inspired me in a whole new way… I learned how to create my own path.”
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She taught herself guitar and started street performing, walking “miles on miles” from downtown Atlanta to the residential Buckhead neighborhood “playing for pennies.” Without any music industry connections, INK sought a mentor online, searching for her favorite songwriters such as James Fauntleroy, with whom she became Facebook friends in the late 2000s. “He was a mentor for me in the very beginning,” she says. “That gave me the confidence to say, ‘I can do this.’ ” Her first big break came in 2019, after she had co-produced and co-written Chris Brown’s song “Don’t Check on Me,” which featured Justin Bieber — and Brown decided it should feature INK, too. “It gave me so much exposure and another boost of confidence to have a superstar say, ‘Hey, we’re going to introduce you to the world.’ That was one of the moments that led to the unstoppable train I’m on now.”
This year has proved to be INK’s biggest, and busiest, yet — but she teases 2025 will be even crazier, as she’s working on her own music and a documentary while continuing to collaborate with music’s upper echelon.
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Beyoncé, Cowboy Carter
“Beyoncé was definitely a catalyst for the freight train to keep going,” says INK, who started working with Bey before COVID-19 hit on Cowboy Carter tracks including “Ameriican Requiem” and “16 Carriages.” INK recalls how, in 2019, they met at Roc Nation’s Grammys week brunch: “We have an inside joke because I went up to her and said, ‘Hey, I just wanted to let you know, I’m going to be writing your next album.’ And she giggled and said, ‘What’s your name?’ We just hit it off.” Soon after, INK was working with producer Ricky Reed, who introduced her to Beyoncé’s A&R executives. “They said, ‘We would love to have you be on this journey with us from the start.’ And five years later, Cowboy Carter was delivered.”
INK was friends with Lopez’s A&R executive long before he had the gig. So when it was time to assemble a team for Lopez’s personal album This Is Me… Now, he told INK, “You’re the first person I thought of for this.” INK most loved how “there’s not a session that happens without [Lopez]… I remember one time, she was like, ‘Hey, pull up today, but I’m going to send you a different address.’ And it’s the movie set [for Atlas]. We’re recording parts from the album in her trailer, and she comes in covered in blood, wet, cuts, bruises all over her body. And then she’s on the mic recording the song that we just wrote in her trailer. I thought that was the coolest thing ever, and it just showed the work ethic.”
Latto, “Look What You Did”
INK has long worked with Latto’s producer, Go Grizzly, another Atlanta native, but she had yet to work with the “Big Energy” rapper herself until this year. As INK recalls, she and Grizzly were working in Paris when they “cooked up the beat” that became “Look What You Did,” off the rapper’s third full-length album, Sugar Honey Iced Tea. “We did a beat in the studio, and then he was like, ‘Yo, you already know we have to get Latto on this.’ She heard it, she loved it and snapped.” INK had previously worked with Mariah the Scientist, who featured on “Look What You Did,” earlier this year when she guested on 21 Savage’s American Dream album. “So the dots connected,” she says.
This story appears in the Oct. 5, 2024, issue of Billboard.
This year, acclaimed producer Jack Antonoff has had a direct hand in abetting artistic evolution at different levels of stardom — helping a longtime collaborator, Taylor Swift, shape-shift while staying on top of the pop world, as well as a rising artist, Sabrina Carpenter, secure her place on the A-list. For the latter, Antonoff produced […]
“People call it Brat Summer — it should be called ‘artist development summer,’ ” Jack Antonoff jokes on a mid-September afternoon, sitting on the rooftop of New York’s Electric Lady Studios and reflecting on the past few months in pop music. Charli XCX, whose brat album helped define the season, is an old friend of Antonoff’s — they co-headlined a 2015 tour called Charli and Jack Do America — and he points out that her 2024 success speaks to a larger movement of artists creating their own mainstream niches instead of latching on to trends.
“Sabrina [Carpenter], Charli and Chappell Roan — the three of them have had this shared experience of artists who have been crystallizing, and that’s where you get gems,” Antonoff says of a trio of pop talents who have dominated recent cultural discourse. “And that’s the story of being an artist. That’s true artist development. And it doesn’t matter where we are in tech or streaming or anything — the only way to win is to create your own language.”
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This year, Antonoff has had a direct hand in abetting artistic evolution at different levels of stardom — helping a longtime collaborator, Taylor Swift, shape-shift while staying on top of the pop world, as well as a rising artist, Carpenter, secure her place on the A-list. For the latter, Antonoff produced and co-wrote four songs on Carpenter’s new album, Short n’ Sweet — including her first Billboard Hot 100 chart-topper, “Please Please Please” — allowing the pop singer’s sardonic tics to shine on her way to arena-headliner status.
“No one deserves it more,” Antonoff says of the former Disney Channel star, who has released six albums by the age of 25. “Sabrina’s been quietly growing, and her albums have been getting more awesome, and she’s been honing her sound and performances. It’s not like she just popped onto the scene — this has been a decade of grinding toward it.”
During the week that Short n’ Sweet was released in August, Swift’s The Tortured Poets Department — on which Antonoff contributed to 16 songs across both of its volumes — spent its 15th week atop the Billboard 200, the longest run at No. 1 of any Swift project. Swift announced The Tortured Poets Department on the night of the 2024 Grammys, where previous full-length Midnights was awarded album of the year and she set the record for the most career wins in the category.
Amy Lombard
This year, Antonoff’s work with Swift and Carpenter — along with the self-titled fourth album from his long-running band, Bleachers, which arrived in March — could help him notch his sixth consecutive Grammy nomination for a producer of the year, non-classical, a category that he has won the past three years. If Antonoff takes home the trophy at the 2025 ceremony, he would set a record as the only four-peat in the 50-year history of the award.
“It would be a really [nice] resolve to a really special period,” says Antonoff’s manager, Jamie Oborne. “If it’s based on the work alone and the broad spectrum of work, I can’t imagine anyone else winning.”
Instead of functioning as a victory lap for Swift, The Tortured Poets Department was emotionally unguarded and knowingly messy, dividing critics and inspiring immediate fan devotion on its way to the biggest first-week debut of her career. “The best bodies of work are when people drill into the most personal, the most if-you-know-you-know kind of stuff,” Antonoff says. “I think the depth of [Tortured Poets Department] was surprising to people because I think people are constantly surprised when artists continue to be artists. You see so many people take the wrong turn and pander and become terrified of what they could lose. That’s the recipe for all the worst music, and I can only relate to people who don’t give a f–k. That next body of work — it doesn’t matter how big your audience is, it either comes from the depths of you or it doesn’t. And I love that album so much because the whole thing is so remarkably vulnerable.”
That ethos helps explain why, in the midst of a record-setting run as a pop studio whiz, Antonoff keeps pushing his creativity into unfamiliar areas. After producing the April soundtrack to the Apple TV+ fashion drama The New Look, which included Antonoff pals like Lana Del Rey and The 1975 covering early-20th-century songs, he also signed on to provide original music for a Broadway revival of Romeo + Juliet, which began previews in late September. More recently, he unveiled early plans for his Public Studios initiative, which, with the help of The Ally Coalition, will build studios in LGBTQ+ youth shelters and create a network of engineers to help train those interested in production — free of charge.
Jack Antonoff photographed September 10, 2024 at Electric Lady Studios in New York.
Amy Lombard
Antonoff also deconstructed the first Bleachers album, 2014’s Strange Desire, for a 10th-anniversary rework dubbed A Stranger Desired, released in September. And amid all of the projects, he foremost describes 2024 as “a touring year,” having led Bleachers on a global trek that will culminate with a headlining gig at Madison Square Garden in New York on Oct. 4.
He admits that he gets asked about his schedule by the people around him — friends curious about his balancing act and why he hasn’t zeroed in on the more successful pieces of his artistry. “My hunger to make things hasn’t changed since I was like 14,” Antonoff says with a chuckle, “but the context for people has changed.” When asked about the idea of winning four consecutive Grammys for producer of the year, Antonoff returns to the idea of artist development — that even when he’s receiving what he describes as “a huge honor,” his priority remains “protecting that zone” that allows him to grow as an artist and person.
“I really don’t let anything get in the way of that,” Antonoff says. “I keep my head down and I go back to work.”
This story appears in the Oct. 5, 2024, issue of Billboard.
Even with all the pop greats and breakout stars likely to be involved in the Grammys in February 2025, one icon seems certain to garner outsize attention: Beyoncé, who is both the winningest artist in the show’s history and a perennial cause célèbre for having never received the marquee Grammy, album of the year.
Bey’s presence on Music’s Biggest Night will be particularly fascinating, since her acclaimed country-Americana pivot set, Cowboy Carter, is at the center of a number of questions about genre — namely, who gets to decide what does and doesn’t constitute country music. Whether Cowboy Carter, its singles and its collaborators are recognized within the country categories will be a major subplot of the awards — one that got even thicker when Beyoncé was shut out entirely from the recently announced nominations for the Country Music Association (CMA) Awards.
But of course, the biggest Grammys question with Beyoncé remains: Will this finally be the year that she wins album of the year? The Recording Academy is under more pressure than ever over the answer, particularly after Jay-Z took the Grammys to task in a speech at the 2024 awards for having never bestowed its most prestigious honor upon his wife.
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Here, four Billboard staffers discuss the most pressing questions concerning Cowboy Carter and the Grammys it hopes to lasso in February.
Will there be a “Beyoncé effect” at the Grammys — recognition for the Black country artists she spotlights on Cowboy Carter?
Paul Grein (Awards Editor): “Blackbiird,” featuring Brittney Spencer, Reyna Roberts, Tanner Adell and Tiera Kennedy, and/or “Spaghettii,” featuring Linda Martell and Shaboozey, could be nominated for best country duo/group performance. The latter would give a nod to Martell, who in 1969 became the first Black woman to play the Grand Ole Opry. And Shaboozey is very likely to be nominated for best new artist and record of the year; “A Bar Song (Tipsy)” has done so phenomenally well, it stands on its own.
Gail Mitchell (Executive Director, R&B/Hip-Hop): With Shaboozey — who guests on two Cowboy Carter tracks — recently notching his 12th week at No. 1 on the Billboard Hot 100 with “A Bar Song (Tipsy),” we’re already seeing the Beyoncé effect. It’s no surprise that he’s poised to score a nomination or two in the country categories and perhaps a best new artist or song and/or record of the year nod. I’m not sure the effect will extend to Grammy recognition for Cowboy Carter’s other featured Black country artists. However, there’s no discounting the heightened visibility that comes with a Beyoncé co-sign: Featured artists Martell, Spencer, Adell, Roberts, Kennedy and Willie Jones all gained significant catalog boosts after the album’s March release.
Melinda Newman (Executive Editor, West Coast/Nashville): Is this like the butterfly effect, where the ripples caused by Cowboy Carter may reverberate and cause seismic shifts down the line? The only artist likely to see any recognition is Shaboozey — and he probably would have gotten it without his Cowboy Carter appearance, given the massive success of “A Bar Song (Tipsy),” though Beyoncé’s seal of approval certainly doesn’t hurt. Besides Spencer, whose January album didn’t get the attention it deserved, most of the wonderfully talented Black women on “Blackbiird” didn’t release anything that popped during this year’s Grammy eligibility period.
Andrew Unterberger (Deputy Editor): I think somewhat unquestionably we will see major recognition for Shaboozey, who was introduced to much of mainstream America through his pair of Cowboy Carter guest appearances — but who also went on to have a bigger solo hit than anything on Cowboy Carter this year with his double-digit-week Hot 100 No. 1, “A Bar Song (Tipsy).” The other guest artists on the album will likely not be major contenders in the same way — best new artist nominations for Spencer and Adell are certainly both possible, but it’s a crowded field there this year, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see both shut out.
At the last Grammys ceremony, Beyoncé’s husband, Jay-Z, accepted the Dr. Dre Global Impact Award with a speech in which he noted that she “has more Grammys than anyone and never won album of the year,” adding that “even by [the Recording Academy’s] own metrics… that doesn’t work.” Is it likely that academy members will remember his words when they vote — and will that help or hurt her chances?
Grein: Jay calling out the Grammys, right there on the Grammy stage, was a moment of high drama. It’ll be remembered — and I believe it will help her cause. Some context that Jay didn’t provide: Several other artists with large numbers of Grammys have never won album of the year, including Jay himself, with 24; Ye, also 24; Vince Gill, 22; and Bruce Springsteen, 20. And four other artists have equaled Bey’s 0-4 record as lead artists in album of the year — Ye; Kendrick Lamar; Lady Gaga, counting her second Tony Bennett collab; and Sting, counting one album with The Police. Also worth noting: The Grammys have gone out of their way to trumpet Bey’s record-setting accomplishments on the Grammy telecast, more than they have for any other artist. Bey is clearly due, even overdue, for an album of the year win. Jay’s comments put considerable pressure on voters to give her the award. Voters should be able to make these never-easy decisions without that kind of outside pressure, but here we are.
Mitchell: It’s been nearly a year since Jay-Z’s impactful comments, so I don’t think it’s likely they’ll be top of mind for most academy voters when they fill out their ballots. Voters are going to choose based on their perceptions of the project overall and its songs. Additionally, Cowboy Carter will be vying against a strong slate of contenders that will likely include Billie Eilish, Ariana Grande, Chappell Roan, Sabrina Carpenter and Taylor Swift.
Newman: While some folks probably didn’t like being chastised that they weren’t voting “correctly,” a lot of voters likely weren’t even aware that Beyoncé had never won album of the year. Country voters are unlikely to nominate her over a core country artist, given how hard it is for country artists to get any recognition in the Big Four categories other than best new artist. If she does get nominated for album of the year, it will be because noncountry voters nominate her.
Unterberger: It did put the squeeze on them a little bit. While pop fans — and the Beyhive in particular — are more than familiar with the narratives around Beyoncé and her history of AOTY snubbery, members of the Recording Academy are more likely to get the message when one of the biggest recording artists in history publicly calls them out over it. But I don’t know if it’ll be enough to get Cowboy Carter over the top.
Beyoncé
Mason Poole
Some of the discourse surrounding Cowboy Carter upon its release had to do with whether this really was Beyoncé’s “country album” in the first place. How is the album likely to be treated categorywise, and should we expect the Nashville/country community to show its support on the ballot?
Grein: When the album was released, Beyoncé said, “This ain’t a Country album. This is a ‘Beyoncé’ album.” There probably will be discussion in the screening committee room about which genre album category it should compete in — best country album or best pop vocal album. There was discussion about whether her last album, Renaissance, should be slotted in best pop vocal album or best dance/electronic album. It was classified as dance/electronic and won. I suspect the academy will again follow Beyoncé’s wishes — whatever they may be — in making that call.
It’s not a good sign that the CMA passed over Cowboy Carter in its recently announced nominations, but it’s not necessarily fatal, either. The Chicks’ Taking the Long Way and its single “Not Ready To Make Nice” were passed over for CMA nods in 2006, but went on to win Grammys for album, record and song of the year, as well as two country-specific awards. And even if the Nashville/country community is mixed on Bey’s album, she can garner enough support from other sectors of the academy to win album of the year.
Mitchell: Can Beyoncé earn her fifth album of the year nomination as well as a ninth record of the year nod — a category she’s also never won — and fifth song of the year nomination? Yes, given that these are among the six general-field categories in which all eligible members can vote. But if that comes to pass, can she finally win the coveted album of the year? The optimist in me hopes so, considering Cowboy Carter’s commercial success — it was Beyoncé’s eighth Billboard 200 No. 1 — and the chart inroads it made — she’s the first Black woman to lead Top Country Albums. But what are supposed to truly count are Beyoncé’s artistic and cultural accomplishments — and that’s when the cynical realist in me says, “Hold on.” The album scored zero nominations for the upcoming CMA Awards. And there’s also past history: The academy’s country committee rejected Bey’s “Daddy Lessons” in 2016. It’s not a slam dunk that she will earn nods in the country categories. Bey’s team might even be considering submissions in the Americana categories. Despite concerted efforts in Nashville to level the country playing field, it remains an uphill push for women artists, especially women of color.
Newman: Beyoncé receiving no CMA Award nominations in some ways gives the country community permission to continue to ignore her work in country categories. Plus, given that voters are only allowed to vote in three fields, most noncountry voters aren’t going to spend a vote for her in the country categories. However, plenty of country voters are upset she was not nominated for any CMAs and very well may put her forward. Beyoncé herself said this was not a country album — but whether it’s nominated for best country album feels like it could go either way. Still, Cowboy Carter tracks like “Texas Hold ’Em” or her remake of Dolly Parton’s “Jolene” have better shots at getting country nominations than the album itself.
Unterberger: If the CMA Awards are any indication, Bey might be in a little bit of trouble there. She didn’t receive a single nomination for this year’s awards, while Post Malone, another pop star interloper doing country this year — but one who promoted the set heavily in Nashville and recorded it with many of its biggest stars — secured four, which sent a pretty loud message about the embrace, or lack thereof, of Cowboy Carter in Music Row. I don’t necessarily see that message as racially motivated, but I think the country community has always been very insular and self-celebratory, and when an outsider comes along insistent on doing country their own way, without specifically enlisting the community’s active participation and support, they are quickly othered and often ultimately ignored. I wouldn’t be surprised if Zach Bryan gets shut out in the country categories this year, despite his consistent genre success, for similar reasons.
Cowboy Carter’s commercial performance and critical reception weren’t entirely parallel. How could both affect its nomination chances?
Grein: It did well enough both critically and commercially to be nominated. The album topped the Billboard 200 for two weeks and spawned three top 10 hits on the Hot 100 — the most from any of her albums since I Am… Sasha Fierce, which spawned four. If Cowboy Carter isn’t nominated, it won’t be because it didn’t do well enough.
Mitchell: Commercial performance isn’t supposed to be the main criteria for the peer-voted Grammys. And neither is critical reception, even though both undoubtedly factor somewhat in voter decisions. Cowboy Carter outpaced Renaissance commercially, 407,000 vs. 332,000 equivalent album units, according to Luminate, during their respective biggest streaming weeks. But those doing the streaming aren’t necessarily doing the voting. While some country die-hards didn’t heartily welcome her stepping across the aisle, Cowboy Carter garnered praise like Renaissance and Lemonade before it. Those albums won Grammys in the dance and R&B fields, but none of their general-field nominations — including album of the year. Perhaps the tides will shift perceptibly this year in the wake of the academy recently inviting more than 3,000 music professionals — many of them young, women and/or people of color — to become voting members.
Newman: In recent years, Grammy voters have leaned into commercial albums more than they used to, even though these are awards for artistic merit, not commercial success. That may hurt Cowboy Carter, which got off to a strong commercial start — topping the Billboard 200, as well as Billboard’s Top Country Albums and Americana/Folk Albums charts — before dropping off quickly. Still, Cowboy Carter is seen as a culturally significant album and one that is an important, yet very palatable, lesson about the essential role of Black artists in country music’s history — which may carry some weight among voters.
Unterberger: They might not have been exactly parallel, but I think they were close enough. Cowboy Carter debuted at No. 1 with the year’s biggest non-Taylor Swift first week, and it generated a legitimate No. 1 hit in the culture-capturing “Texas Hold ’Em.” Neither had quite the commercial longevity her fans and supporters might’ve hoped for — “Texas Hold ’Em” fell off the Hot 100 after 20 weeks, and Cowboy Carter failed to generate a real second hit and is currently ranking in the lower half of the Billboard 200 — but both were successful enough that I don’t think any voter could look at Cowboy Carter and go, “Yeah, sure, it got good reviews, but did anyone actually listen to it?” It’s still one of the year’s major pop releases by any measure.
Cowboy Carter isn’t the only foray into country by an ostensibly “noncountry” artist eligible for big Grammy wins this year — there’s also Post Malone’s F-1 Trillion. Are Post and Bey likely to get the kind of Big Four attention that has eluded core country artists in recent years — and who are the artists who could get the same kind of consideration this year?
Grein: I’d be shocked if Beyoncé wasn’t up for album of the year. Post also has a very good chance at a nod. He’s been nominated three times in the category, and F-1 Trillion was a very successful departure for him. The country community appreciated that he put in the time to get to know them and their ways. The academy has been aggressive in recent years about expanding and diversifying its membership, but it hasn’t put that same energy into expanding its Nashville membership. That reflects in the voting. The last country album to be nominated for album of the year was Kacey Musgraves’ Golden Hour six years ago, which won. As it happens, Musgraves is vying for an album of the year nod again with this year’s Deeper Well. Chris Stapleton, who was nominated in 2015 for Traveller, could also be nominated this year with Higher. Lainey Wilson — the reigning Grammy winner for best country album, for her Bell Bottom Country — is another possibility, for Whirlwind. But that would make five country albums in the mix. We’ve never had more than one country album nominated in any one year. They’re not all going to make it.
Mitchell: It will be interesting to see how Post — a fellow country outlier who partnered with Beyoncé on Cowboy Carter’s “Levii’s Jeans” — fares in the Grammy derby. Judging by the reception and success he’s lassoed with several F-1 Trillion singles, including “I Had Some Help” with country superstar Morgan Wallen, Post has made a smooth transition into this new genre. So it’s not far-fetched that he’ll be competing against Beyoncé and Swift, with whom he partnered on her hit “Fortnight,” in the album, song and record of the year categories that have eluded core country artists. And Wallen could possibly earn another nod and his first Grammy win with “I Had Some Help.” As the genre continues to enjoy its mainstream renaissance, perhaps Wilson, Stapleton and other country stars will find themselves breaking out of the genre-specific corral and charging into the big show.
Newman: F-1 Trillion is a lock for a best country album contender, as is Stapleton’s Higher, and both could land in the final eight for the all-genre album of the year category, even though mainstream voters tend to ignore country. Cowboy Carter’s fate feels a bit fuzzy only because Bey, who has been nominated in this category four times before, faces such strong competition from the likes of Carpenter, Swift, Eilish, Roan and Grande.
Unterberger: I would expect to see both Beyoncé and Post scattered across the major categories — though Post may be hurt a little by his set’s signature hit, “I Had Some Help,” being a collaboration with Morgan Wallen, whose recent history of being ignored by the Grammys indicates his presence still makes the Recording Academy a little squeamish. Aside from them, Zach Bryan’s new The Great American Bar Scene didn’t quite get the attention last year’s self-titled set did, but its “Pink Skies” single has done very well and could be a fringe song of the year contender. If the academy is still willing to treat Megan Moroney as a new artist, she could certainly be a nominee for best new artist. And while he might be a long shot, I’m holding out hope that Luke Combs can parlay the Grammy attention he got last year for his “Fast Car” performance — alongside original artist Tracy Chapman — into a song of the year nod for the thunderous “Ain’t No Love in Oklahoma” from the highly successful Twisters: The Album.
This story appears in the Oct. 5, 2024, issue of Billboard.
A collaboration between Bruno Mars and Lady Gaga was always going to have lofty expectations, but when the two wrote and recorded “Die With a Smile” at the latter’s Los Angeles studio earlier this year, there was no talk of topping the charts. They only wanted to follow where the song was naturally taking them, remembers hit-making songwriter-producer Andrew Watt, who previously worked with Gaga on The Rolling Stones’ 2023 Hackey Diamonds track “Sweet Sounds of Heaven.”
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“This was a pure, organic thing that both these artists who respect each other so much wanted to do together,” says Watt, who helped with the hit alongside D’Mile and James Fauntleroy. “This was about the love of making great music.”
That desire led to a sweeping, cinematic duet that has spent multiple weeks atop the Billboard Global 200 and racked up 625 million on-demand official streams worldwide since its Aug. 16 release (through Sept. 26), according to Luminate.
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“Seeing people reacting positively to it and it hitting them in their soul… it’s special,” Watt says. “This is a ballad with all-live instruments made to the human heartbeat. It’s not a formulaic song.”
He adds that Gaga and Mars were in the studio together within 24 hours of agreeing to collaborate, with Mars bringing in the initial idea for the song’s haunting vibe. Gaga fleshed it out on piano with Mars on guitar — exactly as they appear in the song’s retro Western music video (minus the costumes) — and stayed overnight until it was perfect.
And while Watt says the session was a blur, he recalls a key component to that night: finding a melodic structure that let Mars and Gaga sound like co-lead vocalists rather than one person harmonizing with the other. “When Gaga put her voice on top of Bruno’s, that’s the moment I remember… hearing their two voices together, you get lost in it.”
It had the same effect on Mars’ concert crowd at L.A.’s Intuit Dome the night the song dropped in August. As Gaga stepped onstage for the duet’s live debut, Watt recalls watching the moment unfold: “It was this wow factor of ‘Holy crap, [they’re] like the Avengers of music.’ “
This story appears in the Oct. 5, 2024, issue of Billboard.