Interview
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When two of the most singular voices in music history first came together 15 years ago, it’s not surprising that alchemized harmonies and pure, uncut vibe came as a result. Upon melding their vocals on the 2007 collaborative album Raising Sand, Robert Plant and Alison Krauss translated traditional Americana into mainstream consciousness by force of personality, expanding on Krauss’ extensive repertoire within the genre and furthering the work in the sound for Plant, whose own predilection for Americana had been a benchmark of popular music since he first lamented, “I can’t quit you baby,” 53 years ago on Led Zeppelin‘s cover of Willie Dixon’s Delta blues scorcher.
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But in a testament to Krauss and Plant’s respective popularity, as well as the delicate yet tantalizing sound they’d created, Raising Sand transcended well beyond fans of folk, bluegrass and blues, becoming a sort of blazing anomoly across popular music at large. The LP hit No. 2 on the Billboard 200 (where it spent 72 weeks), secured the pair a headlining spot at Bonnaroo, and earned them the 2009 Grammy for album of the year. “In the old days, we would have called this selling out,” Plant said in his acceptance speech, “but it’s a good way to spend a Sunday.”
Then the project went dark, disappearing in a puff of smoke as quickly as it had arrived, as Krauss returned to her longtime band Union Station and Plant worked in the studio and on the road as a solo act and with his own outfits, Band Of Joy and Sensational Shapeshifters. But just like the many listeners who considered Raising Sand a new classic, Krauss and Planet were aware the project was special, with considerations of a reunion occupying their minds during the long hiatus.
“I really wanted to get back to it. I love it,” Plant, 74, tells Billboard, calling from the United Kingdom, where he can be heard puttering around his house during what is there late afternoon.
“Harmony singing is my favorite thing to do,” Krauss, 51, dialing in from mid-morning Nashville, adds of what she and Plant do so especially well together.
So get back to it they did, with the stars realigning last year year for Raise The Roof, another collection of covers by acts as disparate as Calexico, Allen Toussaint and The Everly Brothers, all rendered in a twangy, incandescent style built around the union of Krauss and Plant’s voices. The album — which, like its predecessor, was produced by T Bone Burnett — debuted at No. 1 on the Top Rock Albums, Americana/Folk Albums and Bluegrass Albums charts, and at No. 7 on the Billboard 200. This past summer, an attendant tour included a main stage show at Glastonbury and a performance in London’s Hyde Park (“Basically we were just passing time until the Eagles came on stage,” Plant says of that opening gig), along with three dozen other dates in the U.S. and Europe.
And now, as a surprise to precisely no one, Raise The Roof has garnered some Grammy nominations — three total, for best country duo/group performance (for “Going Where The Lonely Go”), best American roots song (for “High And Lonesome”) and best Americana album. The nods add to Krauss’ mythology as the second-most-awarded woman in Grammys history (after Beyoncé) with 27 wins and 45 nominations. Meanwhile, Plant has eight wins and 18 nominations, the first of which came in 1969 when Zeppelin was up for best new artist. (They lost to Crosby, Stills and Nash.)
“The very fact that it’s has been recognized that we’ve had a good time,” Plant says of this latest round of nominations, “is more than I could imagine.”
Plant: Hello. Good afternoon.
Krauss : Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!
Plant: Hello Alison! How are ya?
Krauss: Hey, I’m fine! How are you doing?
Plant: Okay, I think we may actually be getting into a place now here on the Welsh borders where it’s starting to get chilly. We had the longest, longest, longest beginning of an autumn, but it’s beautiful. The weather’s good. Things are good. I’m looking forward to going to have a look at this little puppy dog next week, and I’m actually living a normal life, finally.
Krauss: Wow.
Plant: I hate it.
I’m curious about this puppy!
Plant: Well, you know, when I was a kid, my mom was allergic to dog hair and stuff. We never had a fluffy pet or anything like that. So over the last so many years, I’ve always prized these beautiful running dogs. They’re a combination of Greyhound and a terrier.
And the traveling folk, the gypsies and the travelers — you always see them with them; they’re just really beautiful — they’re this kind of dog you see on all those medieval paintings and stuff. There’s always somebody standing behind the blinds with a beautiful animal.
I lost my best dog after 14 years about two or three months ago, and I said I would never have another dog, but life without a dog is difficult for me. But it’s got nothing to do with “Stairway To Heaven,” thank god!
I mean, if you don’t see a connection, there isn’t one.
Plant: No, there isn’t one there. I just had to stop talking about dogs.
Okay, let’s talk about your album then. November 19 marked the year anniversary of the release of Raise The Roof. I’m curious if your relationship to the music changed in any way over the last year, particularly as you’ve been touring it.
Plant: I think that Alison and I became — I mean, we’re partners in every sense, professionally. And we’ve shared every single element and every single part of the creation of the record from the get-go, from the song selections to creating the atmosphere, and we take it into the studio together; we use it when we’re coming up with artwork. I think we’ve just grown a lot tighter and a lot closer, and we share a lot of lighthearted humor, but at the same time I think we’re pretty, professional about how good we want it to be. Would you say so, Alison?
Krauss: I don’t think that there’s a different relationship to it. I mean, you’re always looking for things that speak to you in a truthful way, whether you’re telling someone else’s story, or you’re relaying a message or telling your own story. I don’t think that that’s changed. The fun thing was to pick this up again — like, to have something be so fun and be a total surprise, then get to come back and and get to do it again. To me, when we went back in the studio together, it was like no time had gone by, especially with T Bone. It was a lot of fun. We had some new faces in there, but the energy was very generous, which it always was. So I don’t know if there’s a different relationship to it, just happy to revisit.
Plant: We had no idea how it was going to pan out, and going back together after such a long time was, well — there was a lot riding on it. Were we still able and amenable to exchanging ideas? With material and song choices, a lot runs on how we can perform within these old songs. So yeah, it was interesting to get the ball rolling again and to blow away the cobwebs. But as I said, in that kind of oblique answer, we grew closer, if you like. We were able to take the actual songs and embellish them and develop them for a live show, which made them, I think, quite tantalizing, and there was another energy to them as well.
I saw you guys in Chicago this past June, and it seemed like the vibe onstage was often mellow, and sometimes almost contemplative. What does it feel like to perform these songs live? What mood are you in?
Plant: Well, contemplative, I don’t think so — I think it’s just the nature of the song. You weave in and out of the original form of the music as you heard it, even before you recorded it. The songs have a personality. I just think that we’re very adaptable — we just go into character and we just sing the best that we can within those character settings.
Krauss: I also think this wouldn’t be appealing to us if it wasn’t natural. So I don’t feel like there’s any headspace we have to get into. It just kind of fell into place. It was a natural friendship, and it just translated — we both have a love of history and traditional music, and all the people in the band are the same kind of historians. So it was a natural thing. It didn’t feel like we had to pump ourselves up for it, if that makes sense.
Plant: No, exactly. And I think there’s a kind of melding, a kind of a great coming together on stage, especially with the way the musicians have developed the songs with us. It’s quite a liberation. We’ve been through quite a bit in the last 12 months, with working through the United States and then into Europe. We became real rolling musicians. It was something to behold, because the group personality got more and more, I suppose, charming. And also there was sort of a little bit of a warrior feel, going from country to country to country, through Scandinavia and down into Western Europe and across even into Poland. I do believe we grew more and more into the gig.
Were you able to do things at the end of the tour that weren’t happening in the beginning?
Plant: Sure, yeah. You find a groove that works, and it’s genuine.
How do you maintain the stamina required for such a massive and far-flung tour?
Plant: I think it’s just the will, isn’t it? To want to do it.
Krauss: It helps to be fun!
Plant: Yeah. We do laugh a lot. I mean, it’s not a competitive thing. It’s just such a magnificent and unexpected surprise, to be able to be from such different worlds initially and find that we have our own world. We’ve got our own place.
I read a relatively recent article that described you two as an “odd couple,” and didn’t feel like that description was entirely accurate. How do you feel like you two fit together at this point, after this long collaboration?
Plant: I just think that we’re really, really firm friends. And we confer and listen to each other when we have options. It’s really good, because we don’t tangle. Obviously life off the road is — we’re so far away from each other that these moments of hanging out or telephone conversations, or we’ll be coming back to Nashville in April — all those sort of things is all stuff to look forward to. So we’re never around each other long enough to get tired of anything. It’s just a growing condition, really.
Krauss: Yeah, I mean, it’s a really nice cast of characters in that band, and we enjoy them, and it’s a pleasure. We were happy to get to do it and happy to be going back. It’s something we talked about putting back together for years. It was a really nice idea, and sometimes those things are just a nice idea, but this one [did some back together]. I just feel really grateful. It was a surprise, from start to finish.
Why was last year the right time to come back to the project, after releasing your first album together in 2007?
Plant: I’m not in control of my own time, I just find the momentum in a project and go with it. There’s only a particular lifespan from record to record. In the old days, that was how it worked — if you’re really buying into this as a life, which we are — then as it used to be that there was a cycle of events where you would write or create a record, and you’d follow it through with the usual rigmarole of touring and stuff like that. It always used to be something like a three-and-a-half or four-year thing, from start to finish.
So when we left Raising Sand and said a tearful farewell, we went on to do other projects. And if I’d finish something and I was really looking forward to doing something fresh, maybe Alison was in the middle of one of her projects, and that’s how it was. It was no negotiation except for with the calendar and with time. I also had been on the road a lot with with my friends Sensational Spaceshifters, and this [project with Alison] was just promising to be — offering to be — a totally different experience, or a different feel. I really wanted to get back to it. I love it.
And every night when we sing, two or three of the songs where Alison takes the lead, I always find it such an adventure to join and contribute to her personality as a lead singer. I love that. I didn’t have that for several years. So once the opportunity arose, and we were both free and ready — and free to fail actually, I think would be the term — it’s quite tenuous really to go back in after such a long time, but it worked. These are different days as far as the music biz is concerned, but they’re not different days for us. We’ve got it down, and we know what we’re doing, and we like it.
Krauss: Harmony singing is my favorite thing to do. And he is a…
Plant: Steady. Be careful.
Krauss: [laughs] He always changes in those tunes, night to night, and it keeps me on my toes. I was listening to a show we did in Red Rocks, and the differences and changes in the tunes night to night — the show sounds so good, Robert. It’s just fun, because they really evolve, and it’s a much different environment than what I grew up doing, which is very regimented harmony singing where the whole gig is perfecting it. Like, you don’t go to prom because you’re working on your harmony. This is just a totally different animal, and I just love the way the tunes have changed, even throughout this past summer.
Plant: And all I did was go to prom. I still am! Life could be a dream sh-boom! That’s what happened to me. When I used to open the show for people, you know, stars in the early and mid-60s, I used to go, “Wow, this is so exotic. It’s just amazing.” When those big old stage lights came on in the proscenium arch theater, my whole heart leapt. I couldn’t wait to get to the next place to see somebody else do the same thing. And so I didn’t study anything, except for trying to be as good as Terry Reid, or Steve Marriott, or Steve Winwood, or so many people who are extraordinary singers.
Krauss: One big prom! [laughs]
Plant: But I think that’s part of the really big thing about you and I, Alison, is that we’ve leapt into each other, and it’s given me a great departure from finding myself typecast and in being challenged, which, despite its changes from time to time within the shows, just makes for a really good ride, I think.
Krauss: It’s never dull. [laughs]
Plant: I could be sort of far too serious about myself and sit in my dressing room with a star on the door, but that’s not why I do this. I do this because I only work with people who’ve got a big heart, and this is it. So it’s never dull. But if it’s dull, I’m not sticking around anyway.
You both have many previous Grammy wins and nominations. Do these awards matter to you? Does getting nominated enhance the project itself or make it more meaningful in any way?
Plant: I’ll leave that to you, Alison.
Krauss: I just think it’s always unexpected. You don’t figure it’s going to happen, that you get nominated. Like I always say, every record you make is like the only one you’re going to.
Plant: Yeah.
Krauss: And so it’s really nice to get that acknowledgement that people have heard it and like it. It’s always a relief.
Plant: And also the idea of us being considered to be a country duet is fascinating. The thing is, a nomination is a nomination — the very fact that it’s been recognized that we’ve had a good time is more than I could imagine. I didn’t get many Grammys… so to be nominated as a country duet is out of my normal radar. It’s great. I love it, and I also know that we did a pretty good job. I learned a lot, and continue to learn, which is what I want to do. I do think that’s pretty cool.
In 2009, Raising Sand won the Grammy for album of the year. Nominated in that category this year are artists like Lizzo, Beyoncé, Coldplay. Do you feel connected to those kinds of acts, or are you more at home in the country category? What’s your relationship to mainstream pop stars?
Plant: Not a lot. [laughs] It’s different worlds, isn’t it? That’s all it is. It’s just like, do you like this, or do you only appreciate stuff that come out of the Mississippi Delta or New Orleans? We’re all musicians; we all do what we do. You have to appreciate everything from where it stands in its own world.
Is there any chance of a third album from you two?
Plant: I can’t see any reason why not. I suppose if we wait another 14 years it could be a bit dicey for me, to be honest. I might find it a little bit difficult hitting a top C. But we can say it really works well, and we enjoy each other and that’s a great thing — so it seems like a great idea.
An artist referring to songs they’ve worked on as their “babies” can be a somewhat cliché answer when describing their work—but few can speak so affectionately and vividly recall the tiniest details about the song like BUMZU. That attention is the tangible result of the Korean singer-songwriter-producer’s personal and positive approach to becoming one of K-pop’s most influential creatives.
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The 31-year-old has spent more than a decade in Korea’s music industry and BUMZU’s tight relationship with chart-topping acts like SEVENTEEN (he co-wrote and composed the group’s 2015 peppy debut single “Adore U” and worked on every track from this year’s Sector 17, their first top 5 album on the Billboard 200) allow him to observe how songs he worked on click with audiences overseas.
“I got the chance to see how the American fans digest SEVENTEEN’s music and the connection points between the fans and artists,” the humble-but-eloquent BUMZU tells Billboard a week after attending the group’s Be the Sun concert in Los Angeles earlier this year. “The moments that I saw allow for those connections were what I hoped they would be and that was huge for me.”
Despite jetlag and expending their energy at The Kia Forum concert, BUMZU and his A&R team went straight into the studio that night. While the singer-producer is tight-lipped about the “great, really interesting project” from the post-concert midnight session, he says the experience left him “re-energized” in his latest creative step navigating and juggling multiple parts of the K-pop industry.
Raised in a musical home in Seoul, BUMZU (full name Kye Bumjoo) played violin since childhood but dabbled in everything from rock bands to rapping and beatmaking in his youth. The prodigy’s first mainstream plug came around age 19-20 when he composed for Woo Hyuk Jang of pioneering ’90s K-pop boy band H.O.T. in the early ’10s. By 2012, BUMZU was a finalist in the popular singing competition show Superstar K (which included PSY as a judge in post-“Gangnam Style” fame), igniting his solo career and landing the first connections to his future label home of PLEDIS Entertainment.
While he landed some cuts with then-PLEDIS artists like After School and NU’EST, BUMZU had begun vocal coaching the label’s young trainees who later formed SEVENTEEN. He scored more song placements (with heavyweights like SM and JYP Entertainment) and became co-CEO of publishing and production company Prismfilter Music Group (which represents names like ANCHOR, Kitae Park and Poptime). Simultaneously, BUMZU was becoming a primary name behind much of NU’EST and SEVENTEEN’s hit discographies to help lift PLEDIS into a major industry player and become one of the jewels in the HYBE LABELS system after the corporation acquired the agency in 2020.
BUMZU says his fast-paced passion worked well in large part due to the less formal work culture between artists, creatives and executives at PLEDIS.
“We aren’t very business-minded or strict,” he explains. “The artists are my friends. They can contact me and the A&R on the phone. We talk about where they want us to go; they send messages on [Korean text service] KakaoTalk, sometimes we just do it on Zoom.”
Dressed in a cozy long-sleeve, sweatpants with a slight five-o’clock stubble showing for this sitdown, BUMZU is embracing the slower pace of the West Coast compared to his more chaotic day-to-day in Seoul. “I don’t really have a set sleeping time; sometimes I’ll be awake for 36-48 hours on end,” he says. “I love my job but I have so many things to do. Sometimes I need to be awake or wait for the artists, but when I’m writing songs or I’m toiling over my own artistic dilemmas—as a solo artist and as a member of Prismfilter—and thinking about which direction I should take this team in or which way we should collectively head in as a group…it’s a lot of work but, again, I love the job. It’s not like anyone went up to me and was like, ‘If you don’t do this, you’re not going to make it.’ I put it on myself.”
In fact, he had a life-affirming moment when COVID forced him to put a hold on his solo career.
“I held a concert in [early February] 2020 and after we went to meet about preparing for my solo album, and that is right when COVID hit,” he shares of his first planned comeback since last releasing an EP in 2017. “The plans had to change right in the middle of my solo album prep, but, surprisingly, it felt good.”
PLEDIS shares that BUMZU is still preparing an upcoming solo album, but the musical mastermind isn’t slowing down in any aspect of his work. As much as he wants to craft hits for massive audiences, the prodigy-turned-producer wants to open people’s minds to respecting all the ways K-pop stars operate.
“As a person that communicates with artists on a daily basis all the time, I think that artists have a job to express themselves very much in any shape, form or way,” he explains. “Some show their art maybe through inspiring the staff or through the producers. I respect that aspect of it and I just don’t understand why there’s criticism [of K-pop acts’ lack of involvement].”
While BUMZU can’t pick a favorite moment from SEVENTEEN’s concert (“I participated in almost all the songs so all of them are like my babies”), he can say that he’s proud that his songs have an underlying string of uplifting and positive mantras.
“We’re living in a world where things are changing every day and I consider myself one of the people that keeps pace through the changes,” he shares of his musical philosophy. “No matter the fact that everything’s changing in this hectic society we live in, the most important thing you have to realize is that we’re all just living life. Because of that, I’m trying to focus all the songs and artists I work with on having great messages. Even in this constantly changing world, I want to create an unchanging set of values through these artists and my songs’ messages. I will try my best to reach that goal and ask everyone for their support.”
Next, read on for some of BUMZU’s personal reflections on significant works from his career.
Jin, “Super Tuna” (2021): The main point of that song was, “Let’s not make it serious.” We wanted people to just have pure joy from listening to it, almost childlike happiness, and not think too hard. Of course, Jin is such a big artist, but he felt that, time to time, we need to have that childhood-like brightness back.
The story behind the song is actually legendary. [Laughs] We were out fishing in an area where professional fishermen fish and they were all telling us, “You’re not going to catch anything, it’s not going to happen.” I went up to Jin and said, “Yo. You got [a] Billboard Number One. You’re the man. Since you are the man, you’re going to be able to catch a tuna.” He threw his line, first time, caught a tuna when we played “Super Tuna” instrumental!
After that, the fishermen were like, “Some things are just meant to be, but we’re going to challenge you again.” So, I repeated that line, “You’re Billboard Number One. You’re the man and since you’re the man, you’re going to be able to catch a shark.” He threw it in again and, as soon as he threw it in, a baby shark started circling. He could have caught it but we thought, “Dude, that’s freaky” so we just pulled the bait.
NU’EST, “Bet Bet” (2019): One “TMI” about this one is the lyrics for “Bet Bet” were excruciatingly hard. It took almost a full month just to get the lyrics out. So many thoughts went into it: “Should we use the word ‘bet’ or not?” That was a huge point of discussion with [NU’EST member] Baekho. That word was discussed a lot and especially for that album since it’s the album where the members got back together after the Produce 101 series. They wanted it to portray that feeling of “We’re back together now, we’re going to give it our all, we’re going to put everything out there.” Some words that we came up with were like, when you watch a movie, casino movies with gambling when they all just shove “all in.” That was one of the better ideas discussed; taking the bet together.
Other than the lyrics, the track and the topline were so quick and cool. It was a very fun thing to work on, but the lyrics came from hell. [Laughs]
fromis_9, “Glass Shoes” (2017): It always cracks me up when I think back on this song. In my life, it was one of the three most fun lyrical processes I ever participated in. I was so full of ideas that some of them were like going to Mars and back, I had to trim it down and make it neat. We were trying to get a cherished feeling across to the audience. We were also trying to fit the Cinderella story into fromis_9 and because of that, I was using words like “binggeureu binggeureu,” which is spinning around, and that kind of stuff. As I was working, I would just be laying on the sofa, write my lyrics and I’d just crack up by himself. That’s definitely one of my most fun works.
If you were to ask me to do a girl group now, I might probably not be so willing at this point in my career. And that’s not forever, like an ultimatum. If a great opportunity pops up, I’d be willing to do it and hop on. But for now, with everything that’s going on with me and my projects like SEVENTEEN, I want to focus more on what I already have on my shoulders.
It’s not like I hate girl groups! If I get the chance later in time, I’ll do it but just right now, I got so many things to focus on. And one thing about my songs are that I don’t really use “he,” “she,” “her” pronouns very much. I focus on lyrics, the message or the point that we’re trying to get across in the song. Instead of worrying about, “Oh, because they’re a girl group, I have to do this thing and since they’re a boy group, I have to do this a certain way.” I don’t do that. I’m much more focused on, “Does this song fit this artist? Does this track fit with this lyric? Does the topline fit with this lyric?” That’s really what I’m worried about, not the gender of the groups.
NCT 127, “Back 2 U (AM 01:27)” (2017): It was for a songwriting camp with SM [Entertainment] that I participated in and that session was with The Stereotypes [the production team who’s won Grammys for their work with Bruno Mars and Chris Brown], who are very famous, and August Rigo [BTS, Chris Brown, One Direction]. The three of us were just cooking so well. It was such a good, happy session. The topline [melody] only took us three takes. We just used different parts of that to complete the song on the spot. That was a wonderful experience and, also, August recently participated in SEVENTEEN’s “Hot.” So, working with him again was wonderful.
2PM, “How Is It?” (2016): It’s still surreal. Growing up, 2PM was a huge artist. Once my song became a number in their album, I was like, “Oh my god. My song is in 2PM’s album.” But the biggest thing was meeting 2PM.
When I went to JYP [Entertainment] to vocal direct that song—I can’t remember which exact member it was, it might have been Wooyoung or Junho—but they took really good care of me. They would just buy me coffee, anything. I was a baby in the industry at the time and for me to see them be so nice and be so caring toward all their staff, I was like, “Oh, that’s how successful K-pop artists should be.” They really felt like the model standard for me so that’s an experience that I will never forget.
SEVENTEEN, “Very Nice” (2016): I had a feeling this was going to be a hit because I literally locked myself in my room for two days to make it. I was just drinking coffee and reading music. I told myself that I wasn’t going to leave the room until I finished something good. Through that arduous process, I got to a point like, “Oh, this is going to be a hit.” Once that hit me, I was just partying by myself; just screaming and going crazy. For those two days, the only person I would talk to was Woozi. He was on his own schedules, but being updated on everything and how the process is going. Literally, he was the only one I spoke to during those 48 hours.
Once the lyric work started going, Woozi, S.Coups and I were all in a room and talking about how we wanted to incorporate “nice” as one of the key words. S.Coups was the one who came up with the idea of “Very Nice” and, from that, the lyrics started just coming together. The idea of nice came from the same idea of “nice shot,” like when golfers go golfing, someone has a nice shot, you say, “Nice shot!” Then that’s where the “nice” and “very nice” developed from. These days, I’m a maniac for golf but back then, I wasn’t playing. But S.Coups pitched in wonderful ideas that helped in the creation of that song and to this day, it’s been decorating SEVENTEEN’s encore stages.
SHINee, “Hold You” (2015): I participated along with a producer named Deez [Red Velvet, VIVIZ, SuperM] in another song camp, he’s one of my favorite senior hyungs. When you listen to this song, it doesn’t sound complex but if you open up the actual files and you break it down, the vocal harmony techniques that are in there are extremely complex.
There are two songs in my career that I have put the most effort into the vocal production: one is “Thank You (Evening by Evening)” by NU’EST, and then “Hold You.” In both of them, I wanted to use their vocal harmonies almost as an instrument in the song composition instead of just harmony.
After School, “Make-Up & Tears” (2013): Interesting story about that one is, that was the first song that I participated in after joining PLEDIS. I’m still putting my everything into music, but since this was the first one, I was literally sacrificing everything in my body to get it done and get it to that satisfactory level.
So, the lyrics talk about a breakup, right? I went around and wanted to get stories that happened from normal people. After you cry, your eyes are puffy, right? Sometimes you might freeze a spoon and put it on your eyes to reduce the swelling, that kind of stuff. I was calling all of my friends and asking because, since it’s a girl group song and I’m a man, I didn’t really have that perspective or an experience to look at where it could relate to a lot of people. I was just on my phone going through everyone in my contacts! I didn’t know what was right or what was wrong because I didn’t have that same track record to look back on like I do now.
With its genre-spanning, eternal-summer energy, Bad Bunny’s Un Verano Sin Ti transcended Latin music and became one of the year’s biggest blockbusters. To one of his main producers, MAG, “It’s been a long time coming.”
“The [previous] divide between Latin music and pop music has now merged, because Spanish-language music is pop music,” he reflects.
The Puerto Rican-Dominican hitmaker helped Bad Bunny create the omnipresent Un Verano Sin Ti. The LP has become the first all-Spanish album to top the year-end Billboard 200, ever, and reached No. 1 on the Billboard staff’s Best Albums of 2022 list. It is also the first all-Spanish-language release to earn a Grammy award nomination for album of the year. And thanks to the record’s wild success, Bad Bunny landed on Billboard Magazine‘s No. 1 year-end issue. It’s not just a chart-topping, record-breaking album, it’s an era-defining moment in pop.
The producer-artist pair have been working closely since MAG executive produced Bunny’s El Último Tour del Mundo in 2020, which also resulted in unprecedented success — it became the first Spanish-language release to top the Billboard 200 in the chart’s 64-year existence.
For reasons mentioned above and more, the super-producer peaked at No. 1 on Billboard’s Year-End Hot Latin Song Producers chart, and landed No. 5 on the all-genre Year-End Hot 100 Producers chart.
Born Marco Borrero in Brooklyn, MAG alchemized 15 of the 23 tracks total from Benito’s latest record, including its two highest-charting tracks on the Year-End Hot 100, “Tití Me Preguntó” and “Me Porto Bonito” — the two songs combined have reached a staggering 1.9 billion streams on Spotify alone since the album’s release in May via Rimas Entertainment.
When asked about the album’s groundbreaking accomplishments, Bunny’s long-time collaborator Tainy, who co-produced nine tracks in the album, tells Billboard: “We never felt these things could be possible for us coming from Puerto Rico and being Latin. We always felt like there was [an Anglo-imposed] level higher than what we were doing, because of the Anglo market. That doesn’t exist anymore, and a lot of that has to do with Benito. It’s special to see those barriers broken, and dreaming big ends up becoming true. This is the new normal.”
“I’m happy to finally see that when you’re talking about Billie Eilish, Adele, Harry Styles, Justin Bieber in the same conversation now, you’re also talking about Benito, you’re talking about Karol G, Rauw and Rosalia,” echoes MAG.
Billboard hopped on Zoom with MAG, who was just arriving to Los Angeles from Miami to be honored at the Variety Hitmakers event for helping Bad Bunny craft another revolutionary new album.
Since we last spoke during the El Último Tour del Mundo (2020) phase, things have evolved tremendously for you. How’s your year going?
We work so much, and every time we finish something we’re on to the next thing. But when I take a second to be present and reflect on my year, it’s heartwarming to see everything that’s happening with Spanish-language music, and the impact that it’s having culturally. What’s happened with the songs we’re doing, how they’ve been accepted and received, and how that’s become a part of pop culture is really heartwarming.
When you reflect on Un Verano Sin Ti’s unprecedented accomplishments, what goes through your head?
The [previous] divide between Latin music and pop music has now merged, because Spanish-language music is pop music. It is the most popular music right now. It makes me really happy to see that. It’s been a long time coming. Of course, streaming has assisted in that — because now we can physically see what consumers are actually listening to, and most consumers are listening to Spanish-language music.
Congratulations on topping the Billboard charts’ Hot Latin Song Producers and landing at No. 5 for the all-genres Hot 100 Producers chart. Did you anticipate these accomplishments given the album’s recent success?
I’m never thinking about charts or the success of what a song is going to have as we’re creating it. I think that’s been an important part of my creative process. Working with Benito, we’re making things that we love and pouring our heart into that, hoping that it’s going to resonate and connect with people. But to have the chart accomplishments, it’s beautiful to see. It’s definitely exciting.
“Tití Me Preguntó” is an explosion of genres: Dominican dembow, reggaetón and hip-hop. It also has an Antony Santos bachata sample (“No Te Puedo Olvidar”). Talk to me about your creative process and what inspired the inclusion of all these musical styles.
It’s like throwing every genre I love in a blender and seeing what happens. That got inspired by the Antony Santos sample that Benito played to me the morning that we created that song. He came over to me with his phone and he was like, “Mag, quiero samplear esto” and played me the actual song. We had some really exciting ideas for it when it was just a trap song, and we put the sample in the intro.
A couple of hours into working on the song, Benito had this idea to try a Dominican dembow section on it, so I sped up the tempo after the hip-hop part. But it was a hard one — because, like you said, we had to cross pollinate so many genres together, and that was a challenge. But it worked. The final product was very, very exciting to listen to.
The song represents you too, growing up in Brooklyn listening to hip-hop, and being of Dominican and Puerto Rican descent.
Yes, [it is] an absolute representation of me. I am Dominican and Puerto Rican. I grew up listening to a lot of bachata, reggaetón, and hip-hop. I love Dominican dembow and I’m from New York. The song has this New York grit to it — I know for a fact that a lot of my people, friends and family back home in New York gravitated towards that.
“El Apagón” has some tribal drumming and ‘90s dance elements..
Benito and I worked on “El Apagón” from scratch. It started with an Ismael Rivera sample from a song called “Controversia,” a song that Benito really loves. He was just rapping throughout the whole thing. Then Benito said, “I want to make another anthem for Puerto Rico.” “P FKN R” [from YHLQMDLG] was an anthem, but it has a lot of curse words. As we’re making this curse-free Puerto Rican anthem, we thought of this ’90s freestyle house section for it. We then threw in “me gusta la chocha de Puerto Rico” all over the chorus [a DJ Joe’s “Vamos a Joder” sample] with Gabriela [Berlingeri] singing in the outro, which was the cherry on top.
Everything in the lyrics is an ode to Puerto Rico, and the situation that’s happening there. To hear it everywhere when I was in Puerto Rico got me really emotional. It really felt like an anthem for our people to see that there’s a lot of street graffiti with the lyrics around Puerto Rico.
Has this genre-spanning approach changed your perspective on producing music? Searching sounds from within your culture, but also seeking external and perhaps previously-unfamiliar musical styles.
I can credit Benito for a lot of the growth that I have had as a producer. In all the work we’ve done together, we’ve challenged each other again and again, to blend genres, get out of our comfort zone, and do things that aren’t standard but feel great to us. That really helped me grow as a producer, in everything I’m doing now, and in everything I’m going to continue to do in the future.
I think that reflects in the music that we’ve made together, and how you hear all these changes and the meshing of genres in all these songs. Even if it’s a reggaetón song, you’re going to hear all these other elements. The growth has happened throughout my years as a producer but especially my work with Benito.
How has your creative relationship with him evolved since you two began working together in 2020?
I’ve been able to watch him grow and continue to develop as an artist. It has been amazing for me to assist in that. As far as our creative process and our working relationship, there’s a lot more trust. At this point, we each know how one another works and what our strengths are. We could be working on a song and he’ll say, “Mag, yo creo que le hace falta…” And I’ll complete the sentence for him. So the relationship has grown in that way. We have amazing chemistry creatively and we understand our workflow and exactly what the object is, whatever the obstacle in the song is, and we know how to get there.
I see that you produced 15 of the 23 songs in the album, and Tainy produced the other eight, but you only collaborated on one song, “La Corriente.”
Shout out to Tainy, the G.O.A.T., the legend. That [song] actually came from Tainy and his team. I was brought in last minute to structure it out, finalize and mix the song with Benito and La Paciencia. We worked on that remotely but it was still an honor to be a part of something with Tainy. He’s somebody who I’ve looked up to since I was a teenager and my entire career. Through my work with Benito, we’ve been able to actually become good friends.
I used to DJ house parties [in New York in the early 2000s], we used to call them hooky parties. We would cut high school and throw parties, and I used to play Tainy songs back then when I was 16, 17 years old. So to be in the same universe professionally with him now and to have collaborated on [“La Corriente”] is really special to me and an honor.
I peep that you dethroned him from the Hot Latin Songs Producer chart, where he held the No. 1 slot for the last three years. [Tainy landed at No. 2 this year.]
It’s wild. My competition is always myself. It’s always MAG trying to improve in what I do. I think there’s space for all of us to shine as producers in this industry, and what we’re all doing culturally for music and in Spanish-language music. Tainy, myself, Ovy [on the Drums, and other Latin producers]. It’s just a beautiful moment for Spanish-language producers.
Aside from Bad Bunny, you’ve also produced for Eladio Carrion, Imagine Dragons, Selena Gomez, Arcángel, to name a few. How working with artists of different styles affect your approach to making a song?
My approach always changes song by song. Even when I’m working with the same artist, I always try to do what’s best for that song and to deliver the product that the artist needs. Never what I think is going to be best, never what I think people are going to like, just what fits the song.
What words of advice would you give somebody who is trying to start off their career as a producer?
Take your time in constructing an identity, a sound that’s you, that gives you an identity as a producer. It’s cool to be inspired by all your favorite producers, but there’s only one of them and there’s only one of you. So take your time and mold that identity. That’s what’s going to stand out as opposed to fitting in.
While making your debut into the K-pop industry is a battle in and of itself, carving your place in it is another conversation entirely that VERIVERY found required a series of experimenting and ultimately confronting harsh realities about themselves and their futures.
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After VERIVERY hit the K-pop scene in early 2018 with their feel-good, throwback-pop single “Ring Ring Ring,” the K-pop boy band dipped into singles that spanned into hard-hitting EDM, smooth-groove R&B, experimental electronica and more. The septet always had international expansion top of mind with a DIY mindset being hands-on with music they felt was relatable beyond core K-pop fans and creatively directing and editing some of their music videos and album packages. Despite fluctuating album sales and public reactions through the years, the group pushed into 2022 as their most ambitious yet with more music, touring and honesty than ever.
VERIVERY’s third major musical shift began in early 2021 with the release of their Series ‘O’ Round 1: Hall EP and the dramatic, dark electro-pop single “Get Away.” The new musical vision was brought to the group by their Korean record label Jellyfish Entertainment (home to fellow boy band VIXX, who have made a splash on various world-music Billboard charts) with the concept how young people face, fight against and embrace the darkness in themselves and the world at large.
With two EPs and their first full-length album Series ‘O’ Round 3: Whole released this past April, VERIVERY tell Billboard that they found themselves taking in their music’s messages to seriously reflect on surviving in the K-pop market and disappointments from the past. VERIVERY tell Billboard that they found themselves taking in their music’s messages to seriously reflect their innermost worries about surviving in the K-pop market and disappointments from the past. “The lifetime of an idol isn’t that long,” dancer-rapper Hoyoung says. “After being a member of VERIVERY for four years, we do have to think about the future.” Leader and eldest member Dongheon admits, “We were afraid for our future.”
After speaking the worst-case scenario out loud and pushing on regardless, VERIVERY returned last week with the new single “Tap Tap” off their Liminality – EP. LOVE. Instead of a new direction, the band returned to their rookie roots with another bright, bouncy single that boasted ’80s synth-rock production and unexpected sonic shifts. Almost like a rebirth, Liminality smashed their best sales records in days while “Tap Tap” took their first-ever No. 1-winning spot on Korea’s competitive music-chart program Show Champion. These shows act as signals to the K-pop industry that an artist has made an impact with the shocked tears the members shed while accepting their trophy all the more indicative of how important this moment was for the group.
“It took us 1,415 days to reach where we are at right now,” the group says in a joint statement to Billboard just moments after securing the win. “Looking back on that journey, it may seem like we’ve come full circle, but we think that viewing the win as a new start is much more important. We want to thank all the fans who have constantly pushed us to stride forward and do better through their love and support, and taking that into account we think it’s more fitting to view it as a fresh start so that we can begin paying back all those who have cheered us on by working even harder. Thank you to everyone who have made this possible.”
Read on for more from Dongheon, Hoyoung, Minchan, Yeonho, Gyehyeon, Yongseung and Kangmin about the work put into their 2022, facing fears, and where this new musical step will take them next.
You just wrapped your U.S. and Latin American tour last month. Were there any markers you had to know it was a successful tour?
HOYOUNG: Because we were going to so many cities, I want to make sure that a lot of people got to know VERIVERY and that we’re spreading VERIVERY’s name.
KANGMIN: I think what determines a successful world tour is what shows on the fans’ faces and how they felt.
GYEHYEON: For me, If the fans re-visit us, wherever we are on tour, I think that just defines like, “Wow, this is a successful tour.” Also, a successful tour is just completing it without anybody getting hurt.
Originally, VERIVERY was the first K-pop act to come back to tour the U.S. in late 2021, which was exciting, but a COVID infection cut it short. Did you take any different precautions or preparations this time?
HOYOUNG: We’re always doing exercises, especially vocal exercises. Actually, YEONHO has this tape that covers his mouth when he sleeps so he can breathe through his nose, it protects his throat. It’s keeping his throat a little more moisturized so that he can sing better.
YEONHO: Yeah, it helps when it comes to the big notes so I had to get to used to sleeping with that.
HOYOUNG: And we got to meet fans face-to-face this time, no more barriers in front of us. We could do hi-touch [high fives] and take photos with them. We did a fan sign in LA.
KANGMIN: We were kind of nervous because I can’t speak English! [Laughs]
YEONGSEUNG: Communication is so important.
True, but fans love you for things beyond language and you guys do a great job at expressing yourselves. Like, the Series ‘O’ era that included songs written by you and your first full-length album. How did you feel about the time period overall?
DONGHEON: After our last tour [ended in 2021], we were able to release multiple albums and, through that, I think our mindset got a little bit more chill and we were more relaxed. During tour, we had a lot of conversations with our members and a lot to talk about. We had some difficulties, but we were able to overcome that. And then throughout this tour, we were able to enjoy it more than ever.
What kind of difficulties did you have?
DONGHEON: Hm, well there were just the big and small stresses like jet lag and we weren’t able to control our mentality or health as well while we were on tour. That became a little sensitive. But just seeing our fans on tour allows us to be able to overcome that, and that mindset really changes throughout.
HOYOUNG: The main keyword to the Series ‘O’ was embracing the darkness in us. When we first heard that was our story for our next album, we thought a lot about how to try to deliver that to our fans. But as we started progressing through the albums, we found that we had a lot of time thinking about ourselves individually and about the darkness within us. I think that kind of made us think more maturely and grow up a bit into adults.
DONGHEON: Many people have just questions about their future and we were afraid for our future. We always think about our future and our team, our music, our dance. It can be very dark…
HOYOUNG: Adding a word to what DONGHEON said, after being a member of VERIVERY for four years we do think about the future because we know that the lifetime of an idol isn’t that long, to be honest right? We’re thinking about the future, thinking about us as a group and what more we can achieve. I think we’re very energetic, outgoing and active but all our members do have a lot on their minds. We have had some hard times with having too many thoughts in our brain but we talk a lot as a group to overcome that.
What do those talks look like? Is it at the label? In a dorm? At a bar?
HOYOUNG: We gather around a lot at the lounge [living room] and talk. Now that we’re all adults, even KANGMIN, we might have a little to drink… [Group laughs] But we really try to take those times after practice and rehearsals to try and reflect on our previous practices to make a better performance. Even when we fight, we try to finish any arguments on that day so that, as a team, there’s nothing that could split us apart or anything. The most that we can do as a group is always talking with each other, connect with each other member-to-member. I think that’s how our teamwork improved a lot. Our leader usually just says, “Should we have dinner?” That’s kind of the sign for “Let’s have a talk.”
Did you learn that habit from anyone or did that happen naturally in the team?
HOYOUNG: We’ve done that since we were trainees but, honestly speaking, as trainees we were too desperate to debut. We practiced alone just to survive, to be honest. But after DONGHEON came in to Jellyfish Entertainment, he helped us come together as a group. I think that’s how VERIVERY was formed. We have a lot of thanks to him and I know that the rest of the members all feel the same way that I do right now that being a leader isn’t an easy job but he’s handling everything.
Do you feel pressure as a leader, DONGHEON? Is there a different kind of pressure when expanding into new places like America?
DONGHEON: I’m flustered by the compliments. [Laughs] But it’s very hard because so many members have many ideas and many opinions. To be honest, it’s very hard, but I like it.
During Series ‘O,’, was there anything else you guys felt you needed to process individually versus as a group?
YONGSEUNG: In my case, we had to stop the last tour because of me. [YONGSEUNG and VERIVERY have a light laugh] I was very sad and disappointed in myself. It’s very hard to let that feeling go. So, I was very disappointed, but now I think I overcame that. This time, this tour is different. I exercise a lot with members and I practice a lot. So, I wanted to show the next version of VERIVERY on this tour. In fact, I feel a lot more comfortable now.
Will the Americas continue to be a focus for you guys?
HOYOUNG: America’s a place that we always thought we must go to; it just fits with us. The songs can be really relatable to the fans so it’s always been a place that we thought that we have to go so we’re thinking of coming back a lot.
MINCHAN: And I want to tell the international fans, that “I love you.” [Laughs] It’s a very important thing, right? At every show, I received so much energy from the fans so keeping up this momentum, we’re going to push right through and enjoy ourselves. We’ll keep going!
What’s next as you keep going further?
YONGSEUNG: We included a fully self-composed song in the full-length album. So, coming up next, expect new, self-composed songs.
Is that the vibe you guys are going for, trying to take a little more ownership of the music and concepts?
YONGSEUNG: On tour, we performed a song we made “Crack It,” we want to share more of our self-composed songs.
HOYOUNG: What I’m thinking is we’ve done some dark, I’m thinking that we’re going to do something bright now. We’re going through a lot of hard darkness and now going through a bright stage. I think that’s going to end up really good.
“Tap Tap” just dropped with HOYOUNG as a co-writer and is looking to be your biggest single yet. Tell me more about the viewpoint now with this song and Liminality – EP. LOVE.
YONGSEUNG: We’ve been through lots of things like concerts and our tour since we promoted our last single “Undercover.” This is an album coming off of those various experiences, as well as the first bright concept we’ve had in a while so we hope that it holds just as much meaning to fans as it does to us.
MINCHAN: It’s our first comeback with a bright concept ever since our debut era and I hope that we can prove to everyone that VERIVERY is able to pull off bright, happy concepts as well.
DONGHEON: I’m hoping that this album is able to provide a different experience as “Tap Tap” is a song that keeps you bouncing even in the winter. It’s a brighter, happier version of VERIVERY that people haven’t been seen in a while, so I hope the song leads to more opportunities for everyone to laugh a little more.
HOYOUNG: I’m excited to show to our VERRER how VERIVERY can pull off a brighter concept with almost four years under our belt.
What else do you want to tell VERRER fans at this point?
MINCHAN: I want to say thanks to all the fans who came to our show. We tried hard for this tour. Please look forward to what’s next.
GYEHYEON: With the bright, bouncy song that we’ve come back with, VERIVERY will make sure to provide everyone with tons of love so that we could all wrap up the year happily.
Even though ENHYPEN prepared heartfelt remarks to share with fans at their Radio City Music Hall concert, a stream of tears and a group hug were not part of their plan. But the unexpected and, according to the boy band, uncharacteristic wave of emotion led to a collective epiphany.
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While it’s standard for each member of a K-pop group to individually address the crowd throughout a concert, the final moments during an encore usually the most sentimental, ENHYPEN member Sunoo couldn’t hold back tears as he spoke to the group’s teamwork “as seven” and “the amount of love I received from my members as well as the love from the thousands of ENGENEs,” shouting out the group’s fandom name.
After group leader Jungwon quickly ran over to wrap Sunoo in a hug, ENHYPEN members Jay, Heeseung, Jake, Sunghoon and Ni-ki all huddled together, linking arms and patting one another on the back, as their band mate finished his speech.
With the sold-out crowd chanting their names, Jake told them, “Through our Seoul concert to the American tour, I feel like the seven of us have really grown stronger together because of all the incredible love and support you guys gave us.”
As ENHYPEN was showering one another with hugs and compliments while lending an occasional sleeve to wipe tears away, the K-pop act says they rarely open up to one another as they did in front of thousands on stage in NYC.
“It’s kind of cringey,” laughs the group’s eldest member Heeseung, who celebrated his “happiest” 21st birthday at their NY live debut that doubled as the final date in the U.S. leg of the group’s Manifesto tour. “I think it’s cringey when you compliment each other a lot.”
“We’re just 20-year-old boys so it’s a bit awkward for us,” adds Jake, 20, the group’s affable Australian native who took the lead in conversations with audiences on tour and in this Billboard interview, partly from being the most comfortable member with English but also from a puppy-like energy of excitement. “We don’t really compliment; we just sort of give each other feedback…but I feel like the times that we do show our love for each other is why it’s so genuine.”
After wrapping seven concerts in six states for the U.S. leg of their Manifesto world tour, the group notes their first time performing in multiple cities on the road together, highlighted the importance of all seven individuals that make up ENHYPEN.
“That’s really important for me because we started together as seven members and it has an absolute value for me,” Heeseung says of the multinational act with members representing Korea, America, Australia and Japan. “We spent a lot of time together and, each and every member, I hold them dearest to my heart. So, I think that after this tour I realized that it’s our golden time together. So, yeah, I really love my members” before, naturally, laughing as he adds a “cringe” to round out his thoughts.
ENHYPEN’s understated, soft-speaking leader Jungwon says private moments pointed out their compatibility to him. “The little things that I did with my members really cheered me up,” he explains. “We’d rehearse a lot, and saying things like, ‘Let’s go, together’ before we go on stage; those little things really lifted me up.”
Jake adds that the close quarters for concerts also created a natural camaraderie. “Between stages, we have like a little booth thing where we had to get changed really quickly but it’s really crowded and we can’t really move around,” he says. “But I can really sort of see our chemistry showing because we have to look out for each other—it’s always really messy in there.”
ENHYPEN was born out of the singing competition I-Land where 23 K-pop hopefuls fought for a spot in a new boy band with HYBE founder Bang Si-Hyuk overseeing the competition as Rain, BTS, Zico, SEVENTEEN and Tomorrow X Together guest mentored. Despite the high stakes of making the band, ENHYPEN never saw one another as rivals.
“I-Land was sort of a competition, but I don’t think any of us really felt like it was,” Jake explains. “I feel like to the viewers that watched the show, it might seem like that but we had this feeling that we all had to do well and make good performances.”
Jay adds that some members already had an established brotherhood from their early days in the K-pop system. “I had trained with Heeseung for about four years, it already feels like he’s family.”
After I-Land wrapped in September 2020, the septet told an unfolding story as growing superstars through albums. From their debut EP Border: Day One discussing their start in the industry (and peaking at No. 14 on Billboard‘s World Albums chart in early 2021) to this past July’s Manifesto: Day 1 soaring to No. 6 on the Billboard 200 and earning the group their first No. 1 on Top Album Sales with 69,000 album copies sold in its first three weeks, global fans are growing with the band. Earlier this year, ENHYPEN scored their first No. 1 single on the Japan Hot 100 as well with their electro-pop/rock hybrid “Tamed-Dashed,” no doubt with help from Japan-born member Ni-ki, who’s loudest when making his band mates laugh throughout the interview as much as they do him.
“I feel like every album and every song we put out sort of portrays what we’re feeling in that moment and what we’re going through,” Jake says. “Our first album was about moving on from I-Land, becoming an idol, and debuting as an idol. Our second one [Border: Carnival] was sort of saying what we felt while performing as an artist. Now, it’s been two years since we became an idol and now we’re sharing our story to the whole world. Every album has its own meaning and I think that’s one of our strongest points.” Jay calls it ENHYPEN’s “history.”
When it came to Sunoo, one of the younger members known by fans for his cute and sunny disposition that radiates even during an early Monday morning interview, his concerns about completing the career milestone in ENHYPEN’s first U.S. tour were daunting. He says the tearful chat at the concert was more of a release of relief.
“Personally, I had a lot of concerns during the tour,” the 19-year-old says. “The main concern being, ‘Would I be able to successfully round up this concert?’ I think it would have been impossible to actually successfully wrap up this concert and tour without ENGENEs, members, and our staff members who always support me. So, I got teary-eyed because I was really touched by the fact that we really successfully ended this tour but I also want to mention that I also got a lot of energy from this tour.”
Jake adds their the tour experience played a big part in naturally rushing to Sunoo’s side: “We knew what he was going through. Before the last show, he would talk about being sort of tired and just not feeling 100 percent. We could all agree and sort of empathize.”
While Jay’s warm side comes through in concert and during this interview despite his deadpan delivery (he’s the first to say “never” when asked if the group opens up to each other), the Seattle-born star had his own worries about coming Stateside as well.
“I’ve been nervous because it was the first time I came back to States as an artist,” he says. “I already went to almost every city we performed, but it really feels different since I was a little boy. I think I was just proud of all of us doing performances in my home country; it really touched me a lot.” Jay told his members “all of us did incredible, all of us awesome” on stage at the concert’s end.
Looking ahead, the septet thinks and speaks excitedly about future directions after this first extensive tour.
The quieter but undeniably well-spoken Sunghoon, who’s gained fame in K-pop for his hosting abilities, says the tour experience opened his eyes to a new way of creating music. “Up till now, we’ve focused more on our music itself and the album itself,” he explains. “But after the U.S. tour, I thought that it would be good if we can actually envision our concert and performance while we make the album and that would improve our delivery.”
Heeseung is curious about adding city pop into the group’s sound. At the same time, Jungwon wonders how the group could fare if they opted for songs that mix fewer genres after blending punk-rock and electronic production on “Drunk-Dazed” or swirling influences of Chicago drill with dance-pop buildups on “Future Perfect (Pass the MIC).”
Either way, ENGENEs are sure to enjoy wherever the group’s story heads next which comforts the group and inspires them to look excitedly forward together.
“If we focus on our albums, concerts, and tours, the results will naturally follow,” Sunghoon believes. Jungwon says, “Charts and rankings are not something we can control, but what we can control is the focus on our performance and give a lot of happiness and entertainment.” Notably, no one has a funny comment or adds a “cringe” to their leader’s final words, perhaps because it’s an undeniable sentiment that they all feel comfortable and confident sharing with one another.
Much of the electronic music industry is currently in or en route to Amsterdam, with the city’s longstanding ADE conference launching tomorrow (October 18.)
Happening in the Dutch capital since 1996, the five-day Amsterdam Dance Event is the world’s largest dance music industry conference, and the one that many in the scene call not only the most fun, but the one where the most business gets done.
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2022 marks ADE’s first full-fledged iteration since 2019, with the pandemic forcing ADE fully online in 2020 and only partially live in 2021. This year, say ADE organizers Meindert Kennis and Jan-Willem, the event is not just back, but also bigger than ever, with 10,000 industry professionals expected for the expansive conference and 600,000 fans in town to take in the hundreds of consumer facing shows and arts and culture programming happening through this Saturday, October 22.
In an effort to make the conference more useful for more people, for the first time this year it’s divided into Pro and Lab conferences, with Pro programming catered towards established industry members and Lab focused on those just getting their foot in the (club) door.
“Lab is a conference for people making the first steps in the industry, to help them educate themselves and to help them with the first steps to become a pro within a few years,” says Kennis. “Having this healthy ecosystem is one of the main ideas we wanted to implement before the pandemic that survived during our off years.”
Meanwhile, the dizzying number of music events happening in venues throughout the city are hosted by global brands including AMF, Secret Project, DGTL, Spinnin, We Still Believe, Defected and many (many) more, all working under the ADE umbrella. (Local officials do not permit any event to happen during the week unless it has ADE approval.) Altogether, the new music, business initiatives, party brands and other campaigns launching this week will help set the sound for the year to come in electronic music.
“There’s going to be something people talk about afterwards like, ‘I know the first moment I heard that and that broke through was at at ADE,’” says Kennis.
Here, Kennis and Willem discuss getting the massive event back in action this week.
Beyond the changes to how you’ve structured the conference, what are the biggest things happening at ADE this year?
Kennis: I think the biggest thing is that we’re back, and we’re back in full effect. The good thing is not just that we’re hearing everyone is coming back, but we see it in the ticket sales. That’s very exciting, especially after a few years of relative silence — that the industry is back and that they’re coming [to Amsterdam] in full effect. We’re thrilled about that.
Willem: All the small and big industry partners are coming back too. That’s a really comfortable feeling, knowing the momentum is still there.
As you’ve been organizing this thing, have you found that some issues are more crucial this year?
Willem: We decided to focus on three main themes, and all the topics we are discussing are under these themes. It’s the business side of electronic music, meaning the whole value chain of electronic music. That’s still the most important part of the Pro conference. The other one is the future, all innovations and AI and metaverse related topics. The third is the world surrounding music, meaning all topics around sustainability, mental health and social impact. So basically, every panel and program within our conference is related to one of these three themes.
There are so few electronic industry conferences right now, and yours is such a big event. Does anything compare to ADE in terms of size and influence?
Willem: We are a foundation to improve electronic music in the Netherlands. We started ADE as a part of BUMA/STEMRA, the copyright organization in Holland. The reason why I’m stating this is: You don’t make a lot of money organizing these kinds of events with so many stakeholders and so many things to take care of. We don’t have this huge gate around our festival — everybody can be part of it. Which also means there’s a lot of a lot of work to align with everybody, to make sure everything is being organized correctly. Revenue goes directly to the producers of every event. So we don’t make any money out of that. I think that’s a reason why there’s not a lot of competition.
Kennis: Also, it has grown to be this way over 26 years. And as a nonprofit, we allow everyone to let ADE be what they want it to be, within quite a broad bandwidth. I think that makes it really special.
Are you finding that, industry wise, people from parts of the world are coming that didn’t before? I’m thinking of places like the MENA region. Are you seeing different areas show up that didn’t as much in years prior?
Kennis: That’s a good question. I believe that, for instance, countries like China aren’t able to come this year. They are technically, but apparently it’s a hassle. So it’s more that we’re expecting different parts of the world to not be able to come this year, given COVID scares or just a lot of paperwork being required. But we have to look into that afterwards to see the differences, because it’s really interesting.
Are there any COVID protocols still in place in the city or country?
Willem: No… I’ve been asking for quite a few months at local and national government levels, and they’re all like, “We don’t have anything, so don’t worry.” I was like, “I am worried, because we’ve got about 600,000 people coming in, and I don’t want to cancel.” But we’re now just before [the event] and there’s still no measures in place, so I think we’re going to be okay.
I remember that last year, you had to make some changes when new protocols were put in place at the last minute. 350 club shows went from being at night to happening during the daytime.
Willem: Last year, a month before ADE started, all events were shut down. The only way to really make them work is that they had to close at midnight.
Kennis: It was actually amazing.
Willem: We came out of a lockdown, then we had ADE, and then there was another lockdown. So everybody was just going mental [during ADE.] All the artists and venues swapped the entire schedule so everything happened during the day. That gave a feeling of togetherness, where everybody just worked together to make it happen, and that gave it a really special energy.
These five days were literally the only moment in Holland where people could go out and be together, touch each other in a club and express themselves, and we had so many good moments. We started on Saturday morning, we drove to a party. We came in at 11:00 in the morning, and had a croissant and some juice. All these fans and all these kids were pumped up and dancing, hugging each other. We were like, “F–k yeah, this is cool for 11:00 in the morning.”
Amsterdam Dance Event
Courtesy of ADE
I know you work closely with the city of Amsterdam to make this thing happen. Besides the absence oof protocols, have any shifts occurred at the government level following the pandemic?
Kennis: It’s good to notice that before COVID happened, part of the struggle was that nightlife and night culture wasn’t seen as culture by government stakeholders.
But now, since COVID, they realize, “Okay, this is more than just partying at night. It’s part of your expression, it’s part of your individual development, and it’s a really important part of your life, especially when you’re young and finding your identity.” Hopefully that will help us get more funding in the future to invest more in the development and educational programs.
That’s not a small thing, to actually affect the mindset around this often misunderstood culture on a government level.
Kennis: Unfortunately it took it took a pandemic to to make people realize it, but we do see change for the better.
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