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Westside Gunn once considered slowing down.
In recent years, the Buffalo-native has suffered the loss of family and friends, many of whom were his biggest supporters over the course of his life and career. Last October, he told Rolling Stone that he was considering stepping away from music and no longer making traditional albums. He said that he wanted to get back to “dumping.”
In the underground rap scene, “dumping” is the act of continuously releasing projects. It allows artists to get creative with the pricing of their projects or feature exclusive merch and perks. Dumping also allows independent acts to make a living by releasing a torrent of material that they could then perform on tour.
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Gunn doesn’t have to release music to make a living anymore, but the act of dumping helped him be more creative at a time when he was feeling down. Then there were rumors and narratives surrounding his Griselda collective as he, Conway the Machine and Benny the Butcher were seemingly going their separate ways professionally and creatively. Lately, Gunn has been focusing on his pro wrestling company, Fourth Rope, but still believes his brother (Conway) and his cousin (Benny) have to come back together to remind people what Griselda is really about.
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To begin jogging the rap world’s memory, Gunn decided to drop two projects this week. First, he released the five-song EP entitled 11. Narrated by Buffalo street legend Sly Green, the EP is dedicated to his brother Big Dump, who was killed in April of this year. Then, he dropped Still Praying, a mixtape that he’s been teasing for some months that’s hosted by DJ Drama.
Gunn stopped by the Billboard offices in NYC for a long conversation about legacy, family, wrestling, and much more.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
You said in an interview that you were going to stop making studio albums. You linked with DJ Drama to make this feel like more of a mixtape. What’s the difference between a mixtape and an album these days?
I feel like it’s different energies. Like, say for instance, people take a year to make an album because they’re developing the sound and getting shit together, and they might be going through 500 songs to pick the best 20 and all of that shit. I feel like the mixtape energy is one or two days just bang them shits out. Whatever you spit is just, that’s what it is. All my shit like that, though, because I don’t take no time to make none of my albums. So it’s kind of different for me. It’s all the same.
Yeah, that’s why I was curious because you already spoke on that and have that reputation.
I did 11 in one day. I did Still Praying in one day.
On And Then You Pray for Me, you had a mix of some trap beats and were trying to go in a different direction, to show some versatility. Still Praying, though, sounds more like traditional Griselda that people are used to.
That’s the thing. It’s not even like I do s–t purposely. It’s just the energy of that moment. When I made And Then You Pray for Me, I was at Paris Fashion Week, having fun every night, not coming in until its broad daylight. We had party after party after party. It was a vibe. That’s just where I was at in life at that moment, so you got that energy. But where I’m at right now artistically, and where I’m at in life, and just how I feel — it’s me, but it’s new energy. I don’t want to kind of sound corny on some reborn s–t, but it’s like Fly God and now it’s Super Fly God, for real [Laughs].
I told motherf–kers, can’t nobody f–k with me on almost every album since day one. But now it’s like, I know it. I went from telling y’all that shit, to now when you fast-forward and I’m more mature and been in the game and know who’s who and know who did what. It’s confirmed. I know it. I’ve been doing fashion, I’ve been doing wrestling, I’ve been doing art, I’ve been doing a lot of other things, but I was like, “Yo, let me just step back and let n—as know what time it is,” and I cooked back-to-back projects. So, that’s just where I’m at right now, like, “Man, put a beat on, and another one, and another one.” Now we’re five songs in type s–t. I can make an album every day right now.
You said that you wanted to get back to dumping. That’s what you guys were doing when you first came out, dropping a mixtape every other month.
Yeah, because people trying to rewrite history and forget who Griselda is. Griselda n—as fathers in the first place. I think with Conway doing what he doing by himself, and Benny doing what he’s doing by himself, and when they look at me — I’m at Fashion Week and I’m front row at wrestling events — n—as forget who Griselda is in the first place. I never said we were the first people to do it, but nobody took the s–t to this level like Westside Gunn and Griselda.
Nobody was on they fly s–t, nobody had big jewelry, nobody was able to f–king take care of their family. We showed you the blueprint of how to take this underground s–t to making money. Because before that n—as were still sleeping at their aunt’s house, and living tape to tape. I’m telling you, I know what time it is. All this vinyl s–t, all this s–t everybody doing, their whole blueprint came from Westside Gunn and Griselda. We showed y’all the way. It ain’t no other underground MC you could think of that paid two million cash for a house and I did that four years ago. I showed n—as the way.
But again, everybody started doing their own separate thing and living their lives that it went away from the music. When you go away from the music, now you got this man coming in and this man coming in, but they taking the formula. It ain’t even they formula, they just taking it, so in they mind now, they thinking they iller than us. I’m telling you, it’s crazy. I see a lot of these dudes, they got the arrogance like they them boys, I literally look at them like they my sons. The album is dope, but you my son.
Right now it’s back to the music. I’m talking to Benny, I’m talking to Conway, we all family. When you with somebody for 30 plus years of your life, sometimes you take a year or two away, but it’s okay because we’re real family. If anything happened to any one of us, I bet you we’re gonna be the first people there, or if anything happened in the family, we all gonna be there. It’s just everybody grown men, and we just had our little time where everybody was doing their own thing. But now it’s back to Griselda time starting now.
So, it was important for you to have them on this tape.
Yeah, because I gotta let people know this sh—t is forever. People always thought we was gonna break up. They always wanted that. People love the division because we really strong as f–k. Who knows what it would’ve been right now? I don’t regret nothing because everybody learned to be better men, too. You gotta learn from your mistakes. We from Buffalo, we never had anything, nobody taught us s–t. When you got dudes coming in the game now and getting the money, the fame, you from a city nobody never came from. Now your friends might be in your ear. We done went through it all, but now we realized, like, “Yo, we family and can’t nobody f–k with us.” We about to start working on What Would Chine Gun Do 2. We back on it. It’s Griselda Time.
Technically, Conway isn’t signed to Griselda anymore, right? But that doesn’t mean that you’re not going to be making music together.
I’ma tell you like this. When we did the whole situation, it was never about money. Of course, I had Griselda Records the company, but I never looked at it as I’m the big dog when they signed to me. I promise you, man, as much money as I made off Conway in my entire life, I probably couldn’t buy my left or right wrist. I’ve never made no money off Conway. I got a couple dollars off that Shady deal, but I got a leather coat that cost more money than I made off Conway’s Shady deal. I’ve never made no money off Conway. He got 100 percent of his merch, 100 percent of his music, 100 percent of his shows — I’ve never taken a dollar from Conway, except for 20 percent of the Shady deal. There was a narrative out there that looked crazy for a minute, but I’m never gonna speak on nothing because I know it ain’t true, there’s nothing to speak on, and this is my brother, and we really know what’s going on.
If there was tension, he wouldn’t be on this project.
There was never no tension, that’s what I’m trying to tell you. People think that s–t. We can’t have people thinking that we ain’t making music together no more.
Does the creative in you wish they would let you executive produce some of the projects they did elsewhere?
No, they’re men. Where they at and where they energy at might not require Westside Gunn and that’s okay. But guess what? I didn’t look at that as like, “Oh, they saying, ‘F–k me, I’ll never work with them again.’” I’m looking at it as, they’re learning, they’re building and growing. How they going to be the best them trying to just be under me? They not going to know until they be like, “Okay, well, you know what? Damn, maybe it is better that we come back together,” whatever the case may be. We’re always learning and we never had nobody to teach us this s–t. We’re family.
It was never about money. I never said nothing about them. It wasn’t no pillow talk. It was never nothing. Sometimes we gotta go our separate ways and take time off.
It felt like you were focused more on yourself on Still Praying. Usually you’ll have a bunch of features scattered throughout, where as this time around the features started at the end.
Mind you, I made it all in that day, so I was just dumping — it’s not like they in the room with me. So that’s why Drama says, “Can’t forget the family.” The album was done, but I had to call them so I can get a verse real quick, because I’m not about to drop it without them. I sent it to Conway, Benny, and Stove. Then the joint I did with Rome, we did at Statik’s studio.
Would you rather be together in the studio? Does it really matter?
Nah, don’t matter, as long as we paint the picture — but I do prefer us cooking together in person, that’s my favorite thing to do, because that’s a part of my curation. When we did WWCD, we did it together. When we did that album with Shady, we did that in a day and a half. Both my Shady albums combined — Who Made the Sunshine and WWCD — I made both those studio albums, quote, unquote, in four days. I literally rap maybe six, seven days out of the year.
So the beats that you pick are what? Are they being made there, or sitting in a pack?
I got ’em. I got enough beats to last the rest of my career.
This is like Daringer, The Alchemist, Conductor? They send you beats all the time?
Yeah, everybody. Pete Rock, Preemo, Swizz, all the big boys and the illest underground ones too right now, tucked because I’m a curator. I got hundreds of Conductor beats.
So, when you’re ready to work you open up a folder and start going in?
As soon as I get a pack, I narrow them down. I listen to all the packs, but then I sing to a certain folder, so then I’ll go back to that folder. There’s a science with my s–t. So, then I go to the sound. Like, “Okay, who got this sound? Matter of fact, yeah, this s–t would be crazy if I get a Swizz beat. Let me see what’s the hardest Swizz I got. Aight, boom. Well, you know what I don’t got? Uncle Al, let me check on my Uncle Al batch. This project needs Al.” I just bounce around like that as part of the curation process. When I did Nacksaw with Estee Nack, we did it in person. Pray for Haiti with Mach, we did it in person. Armani Caesar Liz 1 & 2, we did it in person. I work quick, so if you’re ready to work, we going to work. When you cooking with Westside Gunn, be ready, because we’re making your album in two days.
Do you have a pack of RZA beats? I was telling my boss that I was interviewing you and he wanted me to ask if you were planning on working with the RZA more. He listens to “House of Glory” from the last tape all the time.
Yeah, that’s my s–t. I would love to. I wanna put RZA on WWCD2 because Griselda on a RZA beat is history, and that’s what I’m saying. Me, personally, I don’t know how long I’m gonna do this for. I went from saying, “F–k this sh—t” to “I got another three in me.” But I also got kids, and I also want to raise my babies. I also do my wrestling s—t, my fashion s—t, so I got other things to keep me occupied.
Yeah, but you’re an artist, too — so sometimes you gotta make some music.
Yeah that’s why it’s never planned with me. Once I get the urge, I make the project right on the spot.
That’s why with the album thing, you don’t want to be beholden to a release schedule.
I might be saying something that just literally happened right now, where it’s like, if it dropped three months from now, it doesn’t even make sense. When I’m ready to drop everybody scrambles for a week or two. Even with this project, there’s only been social media posts as of right now. Hasn’t been no street presence, no Internet presence, no singles, no videos, no nothing.
I don’t think it’s on here, but you did a theme song for TNA? “Chocolate Face” with DJ Khaled.
That’s gonna be on Flygod Is an Awesome God 3. That album is a whole ‘nother juggernaut. This how everything came together: Awesome God 3 was done and I thought it was a masterpiece. And this was the best way for Westside Gunn to come back on the scene and basically have the Album of the Year. When I was finishing Awesome God 3, I went to Paris to go mix and master it, but I couldn’t get my sessions because my engineer was in Africa, and our communication was off, so now I got studio time. I left my family, flew out to Paris to do this work, what I’m gonna do? So, I made Still Praying while I was out there. Now I went from about to mix and master one album to making a new one.
So I was like, let me have Drama hop on this to give it that mixtape feel; just me dumpin’. You could hear the hunger, and it just reminded me of Ski Mask Westside Gunn. My whole career, I drop something around Halloween. I wanted to keep the tradition, but I wanted to cook something totally different. I wanted 11 to be totally different from Still Praying. I wanted the EP to be more slow and soulful, more personal. And not to get too deep, because I really don’t even want to talk about 11 because 11 is very personal to me; people might listen to it like it’s just music, but it’s not just music to me.
My brother got killed in April, and you got him on the cover, and it says “Free Sly… for Big Dump.” When you dig deeper into that project, Sly got life, and my brother got killed, and these are two people that’s key in my life that I probably will never get to see again. Sly is optimistic, but he may never come home. I had Sly narrate 11, so people actually get to hear a different side to him. In Buffalo, Sly Green is like John Gotti to us.
Sly is the OG in Buffalo like a Bumpy Johnson?
The biggest of the biggest. American Gangster, A&E, History Channel documentary, Don Diva covers, like the real deal. It don’t get no more gangster than Sly Green. Everyday you see him, he’s in a suit and tie. If his movie came out, it’d be one of the illest of all time. He got his law degree and has been spending his whole time in prison trying to get other kingpins home. He’s was able to get the four life sentences off him, so now he has the 110 years, and he already served 33. You can hear the optimism in his voice on the project. I hope he do come home. You hear him on there talking for the first time, for real, for real, saying what he’s saying. You hear my brother, I got a voicemail with him. Keisha Plum couldn’t even finish her poem. She cried the whole time writing it. It took her forever to lay the poem down.
It’s a project I never did before. It’s a quick five-piece, but the five pieces are very special. This is so over heads that they don’t even understand what they even listening to. Not knowing my brother just got killed in April, not knowing Sly is one of the biggest gangsters of all time. I used that picture of my brother showing me something. We were always ahead of the game, that’s all we did was study, just wanting to be one up on everybody. I made it for everybody to enjoy, but it’s something that’s harder for me to listen to.
Recording that was like a cathartic thing. You had to get your emotions out.
It’s hard for me to even post the cover. This is something I still deal with every day. I done lost our DJ, Shay. I lost my aunt Michelle who raised me my whole life. I lost my granddad six months before her in the same year. I bought ‘Chelle a house and gave her the money for the furniture, and she never even got a chance to get the furniture. People don’t understand the pain I’ve been going through the last three, four years.
With all the stuff that you’ve been through with your family and even with Virgil passing, did you have to find a new energy to help get you out of depression.
That’s why music really wasn’t a big factor. I focused so much on wrestling because wrestling is my safe zone. Me sitting front row is my therapy. If it wasn’t for wrestling, I’d probably be dead or in jail. I’d be losing my mind feeling lost. My influences and all the people that’s key and instrumental in my life and who I feel were my biggest fans and my biggest supporters, I’ve lost. It’s f–ked up, because when you lose so many people, you start getting a paranoia.
That sh—t is scary, bro. You start to think about your mortality.
That’s where I’ve been at, you know? That’s why I say, before it’s all said and done, we can’t let motherf–kers rewrite our history. We can’t let Griselda go out shaky. We gotta let n—as know, this s–t was the illest.
You plan on putting out a tape called Michelle? You’ve shouted that name out and refer to Michelle Records a lot.
Michelle Records is me and Stove together.
So is it a group or a tape? Stove God is affiliated with Griselda, but he’s not signed officially, right?
He don’t gotta be [signed], he is Griselda. I’m actually going to executive produce his Babygrande album.
Another name I wanted to bring up is Mach-Hommy. You brought up Pray for Haiti earlier. Can you speak on why you guys haven’t worked together again?
It ain’t no issue. We literally just hugged each other four days ago. We’re going to make another one. It’s about timing. Even with WWCD2, they’ve been wanting to do it, but they also had their time to shine all year, too, and I didn’t. Can I get mine? [Laughs.] Benny hit me like, “Buz, when we starting? Conway hit me, “Bro, when we starting?” But it’s like, “Yo, like, can I get my rocks off, man? Y’all had yours, let me get mine off and then we going to do that.”
And then I also want to get that out the way, respectfully, because then I want to focus on what me and Stove got going on. But then guess what? I can come back and cook with Mach, I can come back and cook with Estee Nack, the people that I love cooking with.
On Saturday, Nov. 2, you’re doing something in Chicago with your wrestling company Fourth Rope. Can you talk about that a bit?
Fourth Rope comes from me being front row at every WrestleMania, every Royal Rumble, every Survivor Series, every Summer Slam, every Double or Nothing, every Full Gear. I’m at three wrestling events this week. I just left Detroit for TNA’s pay-per-view, and I leave here tomorrow to go to AEW Dynamite in Cleveland. So, me being front row, I say I am the fourth rope because there’s three ropes on the ring and I’m front row.
The first party we had was during WrestleMania, we sold out TLA in Philly. The second one we did the same thing, House of Blues in Cleveland during Summer Slam. This weekend we had the opportunity to throw our matches and make it about us and not piggybacking off Summer Slam or WrestleMania. And I picked Chicago because I go there to see more pay-per-views than anywhere else and every rap show I’ve ever had in Chicago sold out, too. I figure I mix both worlds, I already know what it’s gonna do. Illinois period is a big wrestling state and Chicago is a wrestling city.
You have your own wrestlers and everything?
Not only do I have my own wrestlers, but I have the best wrestlers in the world. I have the wrestlers from TNA. I have the TNA champ. I have Moose, Jordan Grace, Mike Santana from TNA. We also have a no-holds-barred steel cage match with the Death Match legend Nick Gage. We got the legend MVP that was with WWE, he’s our commissioner. They got the whole Usos thing going on right now with The Bloodline. So for the championship, we got Moose versus Zilla Fatu. We got a piece of The Bloodline too. We also got DJ Premier and Pete Rock. All of this sh—t is for $60, bro.
How did you meet AA Rashid? The first time I heard of him was on your albums. Sometimes, I’ll listen to a track of him talking like its a song. It reminds me of Popa Wu.
It’s crazy how I met him, because I was hustling. I had some work on a Mega Bus, taking my trips, doing what I’m doing. I was hustling still when I did HWH 1 & 2, and all of that, nobody really knew who I was yet. I was only out of the Feds for two years, I was just on my chill sh—t. I was still on my papers hustling, you know? Grinding. I was getting off in Atlanta and AA was on the bus, and I had just did HWH 2 with the Chanel ski mask on the cover. Griselda Records comes from Griselda by Fashion Rebels, so I was already designing. The jacket I had was a Griselda bomber and he was looking at it like, “That sh—t crazy.”
He was going to see his daughter or something and we started kicking it during the stop before Atlanta. He said he was into fashion too and designed and that he had some friends in the music industry. So, once we got off I handed him a copy of HWH 2 with the Chanel ski mask. If you see that Chanel ski mask cover for the first time, especially back then, it was like, “Yo, what the f—k is this?” He said, “Yo, this you? I’ma play this for some friends,” and come to find out his friend was Planet Asia. This started with me meeting AA on that Mega Bus on the way to Atlanta. Planet Asia then played the CD for The Alchemist.
That’s how you got on the radar.
Exactly, and Planet Asia is cool with Hus Kingpin, so Hus was out there and I had never been to L.A. in my life. I’m an Eastside Buffalo n—a, we never had no opportunities. Buffalo n—as never really leave Buffalo. I took the opportunity to go out there and link with these n—as.
Has it been hard to go to Toronto because of your past?
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. I’m going to try again soon. I was recently in Toronto to check out Raekwon’s Purple Factory.
Speaking of Raekwon, I was gonna bring up if you would ever consider executive producing an album with him and Ghostface?
Of course, just last month it was brought up. I’ve talked to Rae and Ghost about it, and I talked to Jada about it. Them the only people I’ve ever came to and was like, “Yo, I want to do this for y’all.” A Rae and Ghost by me and a Jadakiss by me would be legendary. I wanna do something with Nas too. There’s a mutual respect with them.
I’m sure you guys remind them of themselves.
Rae has been in Buffalo with us. He’s shown us love since day one. Prodigy was a big supporter early, too. Prodigy used to come to Buffalo and f—k with us on his own since day one. I done visited Prodigy in this hospital bed. Sean Price, rest in peace, was a supporter, as well. You know, I have songs with Sean Price, Prodigy, MF DOOM, and DMX. A lot of people can’t say that. Dolph was my favorite rapper, that was my dream collab.
It’s refreshing to discover new artists in this day and age. The Internet has essentially blurred the lines between what constitutes as underground these days, and depending on who you’re talking to, one can make the case that the world wide web has replaced the underground scene in hip-hop completely with social platforms like TikTok being critical to new music discovery.
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Enter Laila!, the teenage Brooklyn phenom with rap royalty coursing through her veins. The daughter of Yasiin Bey (formally knowns as Mos Def), her songs “Like That” and “Not My Problem” went viral before the masses really knew what she looked like. It wasn’t until she performed the songs on YouTube shows On the Radar and From the Block, that we really got a chance to put a face to the music we kept hearing on social media. She sings, raps, writes, and produces everything herself and her stage presences isn’t half bad either.
Last month, Laila! performed her first headlining show at Baby’s All Right in Brooklyn, a place that’s earning the reputation as the first venue to catch your favorite up-and-coming artist. The place was packed to the brim and featured a diverse crowd of all races, ages, and creeds coupled with an infectious energy in the air as we all waited for her to hit the stage. She ran through the hits, but also performed some cuts from her earlier work featured on her In Ctrl! EP that fans in the crowd seemed to know the words to. There was also a part of the show where she reminded me of her father.
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In the middle of her set, Laila! brought out the keyboard and started jamming out and singing. Yasiin did something similar in back in 2010 during his Martin Luther King Day Weekend performance at the Highline Ballroom. During the middle of his performance, Bey hopped on the drums and started jamming out, too. I don’t know, it just felt like a surreal, full circle moment. “That’s sweet,” she said when I brought it up during our talk. “I get anxious, but I like being on stage. I like showing people that I’m versatile.” And versatile she is, all you have to do is check out her debut album Gap Year! if you haven’t already.
We talked about a wide range of topics including her freestyling with her father and Jay Electronica in Puerto Rico when she was just a kid. Hopefully, that footage will be released from the vaults one of these days. Maybe for the documentary.
Check out our chat with Laila!, October’s Rookie of the Month, below.
I went to your show at Baby’s All Right in Brooklyn, so I want to lead off with that. Tell me about that experience, because you seemed nervous at first, but you did pretty good for it being your first headlining show.
Yeah, I was definitely really nervous. I always get really nervous before I got on stage. I don’t know what it is, I just get super anxious. But then when I saw everyone’s energy and how excited they were to be there, it was just really beautiful. It was special for me, so I kind of was able to calm down and give them a good show.
I was impressed because people knew the words to songs that were relatively new.
That was the most insane part to me. Just to hear them, not even just singing the most popular songs, but the other ones too. It was just insane. It was very big for me. It was also my first time ever in front of my own audience, people that really came specifically to see me. It was really special. I was able to take pictures with some of them and sign stuff. And it was just really sweet. It was the sweetest thing ever.
I’m assuming you had a lot of family and friends there too because it was a packed house, and you could tell some people were family.
I had some people from my high school, my tías [my aunts] were there. Like, just everybody. But then there were kids with their parents and it was the cutest thing ever. It felt very supportive.
You mentioned your “tías” and you had a voicemail of your grandmother Mami Nelly on your album telling you how proud she is of you. Are you Dominican or Puerto Rican? The Caribbean delegation is looking to claim you.
Yeah, she has a thick accent. I’m Dominican and African-American. My mom is Dominican and my dad is from here. My accent comes out sometimes [Laughs.]
Your sister Sani DJ’d your show and she killed it. Is that the same sister that was freestyling about you not wanting to go to school on your album?
Yeah, it was so funny because me and my sister put the whole show together. We rehearsed for like two weeks and put everything together, and we literally did not even think about doing the freestyle song live. We didn’t even think about that. Looking back, we should’ve done it, but we were so focused on making sure everything was right. Definitely a learning experience, but it was also very fun doing the show with her.
I liked her set. She was playing U.K. garage and jungle, some Jersey Club, and mainly dance music. I know you mentioned Brent Faiyaz, Frank Ocean, Solange and SZA — these are people that you listen to a lot — but what are some other genres or artists that you also listen to and draw inspiration from?
I really like jungle music, too. My sister Sani introduced me more to like jungle music because she’s a DJ. She has such a broad taste in music. I feel like she’s kind of helped me in that aspect where she’ll play really good club tracks from forever ago, or a lot of old mixes. The thing that’s really cool about it is you can find a mix and sometimes it’s just specific to that period of time or that specific DJ, so you can’t find that same version of the song anywhere else, which is kind of cool about garage music or jungle music.
You could hear a song that you like and then hear a part of it that you’ve never heard before, and it’s only specific to that remix. I listen to jungle, I listen to a lot of Budgie. He does sample flips. He’s mad cool, and I found him on SoundCloud, but he does like stuff like that. I also listen to a lot of older ICYTWAT beats when I’m trying to get into a hype mood.
His song “Shirt” is one of the greatest songs ever. I still play some ICYTWAT’s Soundcloud remixes and mixes.
I listening to his older stuff, those are my favorite albums from him, like Fubu vs. Twat any ICYTWAT Radio.
He’ll have some ill flips too, like he’ll remake songs and s–t like that.
I love listening to all kinds of flips. Also, I just be playing my SoundCloud, it just be playing shit. Like once you play a song, it’ll keep recommending really good stuff.
Do you have any flips or remixes that you have in the stash?
I certainly do, and I used to post them on TikTok. So like, some of the real OG people that follow me, they’d be like, “Where’s this flip? Where’s the Aaliyah flip? You need to post this.” And I’m like, “Yo, the fact that they remember that is so insane because they’ve been around for a minute.” I have so many that I want to put out.
You were working the crowd and it was crazy when you started playing the keyboard. Is the piano the only instrument that you know how to play?
I would say officially, yes. When I was younger, I used to be in band like in elementary school and stuff like that. And the first instrument that I learned was the trumpet. My mom was a teacher, so they had a steel pan band. So I would like, go there and play steel pan sometimes. But then, yeah, I think piano was like the first instrument that I learned that really stuck with me. I feel like it’s the basis for everything that I produce, or everything that I make. But I’m not classically trained, and I really want to learn, so hopefully that’s something I build on in my future.
When you were on the keys and Juan was on the guitar, that was my favorite part of the whole show.
I think that was probably one of my favorite parts as well, because it was just so special. And when I was putting together the show, and thinking about what I wanted, I was like, I have to have Juan come and do “Talent Show.” We made this song together, and it’s so special to me. And to hear people singing along was even more insane for me.
The show felt like a New York show before the pandemic. There used to be shows with that energy all the time in the city. It was interesting to experience. You and Cash Cobain have NYC on lock right now. The city is behind you guys.
Yeah, I love that. That’s so sweet. That’s all I ever wanted to do. Whenever I talked to my team about doing a show, ,all I wanted was it for just to feel like good vibes, comfortable, just very familial so everyone could enjoy themselves in a good environment. That’s all I’ve ever wanted. So I’m glad that it felt that way.
So, you taught yourself how to play the piano and the keyboard. What do you use when you make beats? Any programs or drum pads?
More often than not, I’m actually just using the keys on the keyboard because it’s easy and it’s simple for me, but then a lot of times I also just use my MIDI keyboard that I could just put into my computer, and then I’ll just play like that. And yeah, it has beat pads on it too, which is cool, because you can do fun little stuff there. If I wanna play the drums, and maybe don’t wanna use the keyboard, I can use that.
Do use a program like Fruity Loops or something?
I use GarageBand, it’s very helpful. There’s so much good stuff on there that I feel people tend to overlook.
You know when you’re young and growing up, you don’t always know what your parents do for a living. Were you always musically inclined, like even before you knew what your father did for a living?
Yeah, it was just always a part of me. My mom has videos of me just singing and doing all this stuff, and I was like, a little, little kid. I wasn’t at the age where I knew what my dad did. The moment I could form words, I think I was singing and dancing and doing all that stuff. I don’t know a life without music, or making music.
When did it really click for you, though, where you wanted to take music seriously? Angela Yee mentioned in an interview with that you were in Puerto Rico freestyling with your father and Jay Electronica, when you were really young — which, I wish there was audio or a video of this. I wanna hear this freestyle.
I feel like my mom probably has a video [laughs]. I think it wasn’t until my sophomore year of high school. I always wanted to make music and have that be my career. That was always my plan. I was like, ‘I’m gonna get out of school and then I’m gonna start making music and, you know, whatever.’ But I was always so shy and so nervous about it, and I just didn’t really know what I was doing. So, at certain point I had to stop being so afraid and follow my passion do what it is that I feel like I love to do the most. I put out my first song, and that’s kind of where it all began.
So this was when you’re 16, right? When you made “Like That.” Do you feel like you’ve gotten better since then already?
I think I’ve definitely gotten a lot better. I don’t know how to explain it, but once you make something, you’ve sat with the feelings, you felt the way that you felt, you’ve written the lyrics, and then once you release it and it’s out there, it’s kind of like, OK, I don’t necessarily have those same feelings or I’m not the same person. It’s almost like a release. You know what I mean? I don’t know. So I feel like, when I look back at “Like That,” it was a period of time in my life, but now I’m moving on, and I’m growing up, and with everything that I make, it feels like I’m growing up a little bit more.
So yeah, I think that the stuff that I’m making now versus “Like That,” I think it it shows my growth in that sense, even just as a person, maybe not so much like sonically, maybe it doesn’t sound a million times different, but as a person, I feel different.
I definitely get what you’re saying. You blew up so fast and I’m curious about how old some of the songs are on Gap Year!
Yeah, that’s actually such a good question, because Gap Year! is basically just a compilation of the stuff that I made from the time I was, like, 16 until now. So a lot of the songs on there are actually older. “If You’re Listening,” I recorded that when I was 16. “We’re So Over,” too. But then I made “Want To” around four months before we dropped the album. I made the beat for “Are You Down?” maybe when I just turned 16. That was one of the first beats that I made where I was like, “Yo, I’m kind of good. Maybe I’m nice at this like, maybe I could really make beats.” I made the “Like That” beat when I was 15, and didn’t record on it until about a year later. It was a blend of the journey that I’ve taken with music and learning how to make beats.
You mentioned feeling anxious when you go on stage. Do you feel any pressure right now?
Yeah, sometimes. I feel like I always feel pressure, though. I’ve always felt pressure even before I had put out a song, even before people followed me, or anything like that. I always felt pressure because… I don’t know, sometimes pressure can be bad, but sometimes it also can feel like I wanna get this done, I wanna execute an idea I have, or whatever. And when I say pressure, it’s not like pressure from my family or pressure from external people, because I always have so much love and support around me, which I’m so grateful and thankful for. Everybody’s always just trying to make sure I’m good or whatever, just whatever I need. They’re always there for me. I’m just really grateful about that. But I think the pressure kind of comes from within. I want to make sure I’m doing everything to the fullest capability. I’m just always trying to be better than I was before.
This is a complicated question, but how would you describe your sound?
I think I really would describe my sound as fresh and fly and cool, but also nostalgic, I pull from so many things that I love. I have such a love for R&B and writing. I always think so melodically. And a lot of that comes from my biggest inspirations, and I kind of take the bits and pieces that I can.
I feel like an important thing about music and even human life, is that we learn through imitating. We see something we like, and we try to become that. For me as a producer, it’s been really interesting being able to take like, ‘Okay, I like this progression, or I like the way that this bassline sounds, or I like the way that the snare hits here on this song. And you take those little bits and pieces and almost transform that into something that’s completely different by studying things that I really like, whether it’s The Neptunes or an Aaliyah song or whatever, or a Darkchild beat. I’ll sit there and I’ll listen to things that really make that specific song click for me. Nostalgic, but fresh is how I would describe my music.
Yeah, it’s like an amalgamation of all these things. It’s like retro and futuristic at the same time.
Thank you. That’s what I’m going for.
Your On the Radar performance made me look into you more — and and then obviously when people figured out who your father was, everyone’s minds were blown.
Yeah, it was very funny how it kind of just built up and people started. None of this has been planned. The only thing that was planned was to do something cool like On the Radar. The whole objective was to get my face out there. I wanted people to get a sense of who I am or what I do.
As it was going viral, were you like, “Yo, I have to put my name on this somehow?”
I just wanted people to be able to connect the song with who I am, like, as an artist, because I feel like, I don’t know, nowadays, it’s so easy for the artists to get lost in the shuffle when something gets really popular. So, I just kind of wanted to do something. And I did the From the Block, which was really cool. That was just an awesome experience. Doing that like at the playground was mad fun. But yeah, I wanted to do stuff that people could be like, “OK, this is her, this is her face. This is what she’s doing.” It was such a cool moment for me, aand I did not anticipate how crazy it was gonna go at all. And then even the whole thing with my dad, I couldn’t have anticipated that would happen. That was the Internet.
So, you wanted to be a rapper first, right?
Yes. When I was a little kid, I used to always love singing songs and always write songs. But I really used to freestyle. I had a whole thing, I had a little swag. I was probably, like, nine or or 10, but I used to write all these raps, and I used to go to school, and I used to show all my friends. It was my thing.
And I remember I had this one teacher, and I was like, “I guess we were talking about our future?” This was in middle school, so I must have been like, 11 or 12, and they were like, “What do you want your career to be?” And I was like, “I’m going to be a rapper.” And the teacher was like, “Sure.” That always stuck with me — because what do you mean, “Sure?” Like, you really don’t think that I could do this? From that day on, I was like, “You know what? This is exactly why I’m going to do whatever the f–k I want to do.” And I was like, 11, but I was like, “No” — because what do you mean, “Sure?” Like, I know, I know I could do this.
Did you have a rap name?
I never had a rap name. I was just writing raps. Like, I wasn’t rap name. Even now, sometimes I’m like, damn, should I have come up with an artist name or something cool, but I just couldn’t think of one. I literally just couldn’t think of one. That’s why I put the exclamation point, because there was too many other Lailas and I just couldn’t think of anything else.
Now that the the album is out, are you going to produce for other artists? I know one of your dreams is to produce for artists that you like. Send some beat packs out.
Absolutely. That’s what I’m working towards now. I really want to be able to work with other artists that I admire, but I really love working with artists in person, like I like to show, like, I don’t know. I like to see how people feel about what they’re listening to. I prefer to show people what I’ve been working on when I’m with them. Let’s actually connect. And feel the music together.
Tim Heidecker sees a continuum between comedy and music.
“They’re just different modes of expression and communication,” he says. “All I’ve ever done in my creative life is when an idea comes — it could be a funny idea, a sad idea or a musical idea — the goal is to convey that to as many people clearly and in the most interesting way possible. People ask me, do I like comedy or music better, and I’m like, I wish I could exist in a place where I just make stuff,” he continues. “This year it’s the record, next year hopefully it’ll be a show or a movie. I’m just trying to put out interesting things that are coming from my weird brain.”
Heidecker’s latest project is not particularly weird — or funny. It’s a thoughtful, semi-autobiographical album in the classic-rock vein that tackles existential anxieties about growing older and losing one’s mojo: Slipping Away, which Bloodshot Records will release on 18.
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For those who know Heidecker solely from his surreal comedy, such as the Adult Swim series Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job!, his acting (Bridesmaids, Ant-Man and The Wasp) or his Office Hours Live With Tim Heidecker podcast, Slipping Away is actually already the sixth solo studio music album the Glendale, Calif.-based multi-hyphenate has released under his name. He spoke to Billboard about his inspiration for the songs, his song “Trump’s Private Pilot” (which Father John Misty has covered) and the 2025 North American headlining tour he will embark on with his Very Good Band.
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You first became prominent through comedy but when I was researching you, I learned that music was your first passion.
They were concurrent, but music definitely felt more attainable, and it was something you could actually do as a teenager. I remember feeling a great love of comedy but not having any understanding of how to actually do it. I mean, the world doesn’t really want to hear what funny ideas 16-year-olds have. But you could get together with your friends and some practice amps and go in the basement and make sounds and music. I started writing songs at that age.
In college, things kind of shifted towards film — and not even comedy, really. Comedy was a dirty word for us in the ‘90s. It represented something very lame and mainstream. We were just making stuff that we thought was funny and made us laugh, but it wasn’t comedy. That is where we put all our energy, and I stopped focusing on music. But even in making all those shows, there was always music running through it. It was always a big part of the way I express myself.
Who were your musical heroes when you were 16?
The Beatles, Dylan, Pavement, Cat Stevens, Van Morrison, Velvet Underground. I loved my parents’ music. And then, very reluctantly, I started accepting the modern bands, Nirvana and Pavement — that Matador Records prime era.
You didn’t mention Eric Clapton, but listening to the new album your vocals remind me of him.
It’s so weird. You know who told me that? Randy Newman. We had him on my podcast, which was a great honor because he’s one of my heroes. He was like, “Yeah, I listened to your music and you kind of sound like Eric Clapton.” I had never heard that before, and now you are saying it. I’m not emulating him. It may be more of a J.J. Cale influence.
If you were going to draw a Venn diagram of your comedy fans and music fans, how much of those two circles would overlap?
There’s a fair amount of comedy fans that don’t fall into the music category. And I’m just starting now to find the people who are maybe finding the music first. I’ve been doing opening tours with Waxahatchee, and it has been interesting to see people that really don’t know me warming up to my music. She attracts a slightly older, norm-y audience. And I was like, “Oh yeah, I’m kind of making classic-rock genre-sounding music — that’s in their wheelhouse.” I think I’m winning that crowd over. Meanwhile, there’s plenty of younger Tim & Eric younger fans who, well, it’s just not the kind of music they like. It’s taken a little bit of time to warm up my crowd to what I’m doing here.
Tim Heidecker, “Slipping Away”
Bloodshot Records
On Slipping Away, you described the album’s arc as “before the fall and after.” A number of the songs are about losing one’s mojo. Did those feelings originate with you or from observations of others?
I’m 48 years old, and I have the perspective of being a creative adult for 20 years now. I’m past the stage of wondering how this is all going to go. Not that there are no surprises ahead and hopefully, a long career, but the mystery of this business and of this world is not as dark. It’s a little more like, “OK, I’ve actually lived a life for a while.” So when I’m writing, I’m accessing dark, quiet, often unsaid emotions and thoughts, writing them down and then moving on with my life. It’s like the songs are expunging fears, anxieties and questions.
It’s cathartic.
It’s cathartic, yeah. I think all those questions that are in the record are hopefully, like you said earlier, observations or questions or fears that the audience might not know they have. The lesson I’ve learned lately, not only about the music but comedy, too, is we enter these dark or uncomfortable areas, and the benefit of that is getting them out into the sunlight and talking about them. It’s healthy to have these thoughts.
I understand a lot of people have approached you to say, essentially, you are singing about my life. Do you think there’s a lot of anxiety in the world today over the subjects you’re expressing on the album?
A hundred and ten percent. A lot of these songs were written a couple of years ago — closer to the pandemic — and everybody I know was feeling versions of this, while also fantasizing or imagining how they would deal if things got worse. Post-apocalyptic media is fairly popular and that reflects what’s on our minds.
How many cities are you going to play on the tour?
Like 30 or something like that. I’ve done it a couple of summers now and this will be a winter tour, but it’s the most fun thing ever. I’ve done it with my standup character, and this time I’m doing without, but I’m bringing along some friends who are going to open that I hope people are excited to see – Neil Hamburger and DJ Douggpound. I’m trying to be serious about this. We put an album out, we need to hit the road.
You do look like you are having fun onstage. Do you feel like you’ve achieved that dream of really being seen as a musician now?
No, I’m just getting started in a way. On the Waxahatchee tour, I was definitely like, oh, this is paying my dues a little bit. I’ve ridden the coattails of my Tim & Eric fanbase, but I can’t settle for that. We all have huge ambitions and mine are going to be bigger than reality, I guess, but my ambition is to be up there like Phish or Goose. But also when I’m up there with my band, and we’re really cooking and having a good time, I’m like, “This should appeal to a lot of people.”
My career has oftentimes been confrontational, and clearly not for everybody. I don’t think this is for everybody either — but on this tour, I felt a real interesting urge to just put on a good show and not be a d–k. Not that I’m a d–k, but not actively engaged in turning people off for the sake of humor. For example, we did an Asbury Park SummerStage show, and in the middle of the show, somebody passed out. It was a medical emergency, and in the past, it would have been hard to resist goofing on that. I just said, “I’m just going to hang back.” It’s an act of self-control just to be like a proper, professional entertainer, instead of [being] a firestarter all the time.
At Central Park SummerStage, you played a song that you said you’d never recorded. I thought it was fantastic, and the crowd loved it. So why haven’t you recorded it?
It’s called “Why Am I Like This.” It’s a self-examination of, “Why am I like this?” There are a lot of answers for that. Is it my parents? Is it… whatever? It’s just another anxiety song really — but it hasn’t been recorded, because I wrote it right before our last tour and hadn’t gotten into the studio with anything else.
I threw it into the set because it feels like a good live number. We have some recordings of it from that tour, but it loses something when you listen to it at home. It really feels like it’s meant to be a shared communal experience. In the live version we get everybody to sing it. I had people that never saw me before on this tour all standing up and singing it. That’s just a great feeling. I joke that if I release it, it would be a Billboard No. 1 hit. I’m not putting it out. I love having a song out there that people only can really experience in the room.
My goal is to have that kind of career where there’s bootlegs and s–t out there. I’m glad you got to see the show live, because it’s something I’m very proud of. For years, I’ve made music and would go out and play a set in L.A. for fun or to promote something, and it would just be a nightmare the whole time, because you’re nervous and not rehearsed. And to be able to do it every night is such a joy, and I feel like I can just have fun.
Your bassist is also Waxahatchee’s bassist?
Eliana Athayde. She’s been with the band since 2022, when we did our first Very Good band tour. She’s a very important part of my musical career of late. She’s a big key to it, and I’m very grateful. She’s a big part of the record, of course, singing a lot with me and co-producing a lot of it. You know, my career is filled with partners. Comedy and music are collaborative things, and she’s become a true partner.
You’ve said that making the album was outside your comfort zone. Can you elaborate?
Making the album was very fun and very much in my comfort zone. I’ve worked with great people in the past, but it never felt truly collaborative. This album did with everyone there for the majority of the sessions, everyone chiming in, adding their own flavor to it. But the more records I make, the more I’m going into absolute vulnerable, sincere territory which is when I land outside my comfort zone. And there are certain songs — the inclusion of my daughter Amelia at the end of the record felt like I might as well be like John and Yoko nude on the cover of their Two Virgins record.
How did that song “Bells Are Ringing” come about?
We finished the record, and I thought, “This is kind of a copout to end the record on such a downer.” It ended on just, Oh, it’s over. The party’s over. The band is breaking up. And I was like, “Now is the opportunity to really decide if that’s the statement I want to make.” You have an opportunity to say whatever you want on your little record that you’re putting out, and I decided, “No, I don’t want to end on that note.” Meli and I often make little songs in my garage together and I just had this little line and I thought it would be lame for me to say it. It kind of wrote itself in a way.
At the show you did a funny J.D. Vance imitation that was based on his stilted visit to a donut shop. Are you keeping close track of the presidential campaign?
Yes, I’m monitoring it hourly. How can you resist the show? It’s an incredible thing to watch and think about. It’s very stressful and hilarious in a lot of ways. I mean the dogs and the cats and the concepts of plans. It’s all stuff that feels like we wrote seven years ago, and it’s now happening in the world in real time. At the same time, it’s incredibly serious and vital and important to the future of me and my children.
I played a song at the last show of the Waxahatchee tour called “Trump’s Private Pilot.” It’s about the pilot who flies Trump around deciding to crash the plane into a field in Pennsylvania — a very important state or commonwealth in the election — as an act of patriotism. It’s a very emotional song that had the audience cheer, in sort of a bloodlust way. At the end, I said, “Please help keep that motherf–ker away from my kids.” That’s where it comes down to.
Pennsylvania is also where the passengers on United Flight 93 rose up against the hijackers on 9/11 and crashed the plane into a field.
Yeah, I know. It’s a song I rightfully get s–t for, but it also feels really good sometimes to go to that dark place.
Perry Farrell is reclining with a vitamin IV inserted into his left arm, talking about the reunion of Jane’s Addiction, a band that redefined rock music the ‘80s and ‘90s, and offering a stream-of-thought commentary about his music and the state of the world.
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“I don’t want to talk badly about anybody, but I shouldn’t want to let people get away with murder and destroy this planet,” Farrell tells Billboard’s Behind the Setlist podcast when asked about his mindset regarding the intersection of music and commerce. “This planet is too precious to me, and my way of of combating that is to sing [and] to wisen myself. And then I try to get through [using] art and music. And then I build the party and I invite the best people I could invite. And they invite their friends, and they want to show up. And then the next thing you know, you’re standing next to people you’d never be standing next to, you know, and they’re all getting off, and they’re doing their thing, and they feel safe and they feel welcome.”
Jane’s Addiction has been through breakups, arguments and a rotating cast of visiting and semi-permanent members since their 1990 LP Ritual de lo Habitual. This time around, though, Farrell has gathered his original bandmates — guitarist Dave Navarro, bass player Eric Avery and drummer Stephen Perkins — for the first time since 2010.
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The foursome toured Europe from May to July and released a blistering new track, “Imminent Redemption,” on July 24 that harkens back to the group’s first two studio albums, 1988’s Nothing’s Shocking and Ritual de lo Habitual. “It was wonderful to have us all together again,” Farrell admits.
Next comes a co-headlining tour with Love and Rockets that started on Aug. 9 and runs through Sept. 26. “The tour is centered around the the idea of redemption,” says Farrell. “And the era that we’re living in, the era of redemption, it’s going to be a bumpy road. But then there should be peace for 1,000 years. I’ve studied mysticism for a good 30 years. I’m looking forward to the future of the world.”
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With the original members reunited, Farrell says the concerts are featuring only songs they recorded together: the initial three albums — including the 1987, self-titled live album — and “Imminent Redemption.” That means nothing from 2003’s Strays, which features the band’s highest charting single, “Just Because,” nor 2011’s The Great Escape Artist. Strays featured bass player Chris Chaney in place of Avery. Chaney and Dave Sitek from the band TV on the Radio played bass on The Great Escape Artist.
“I wanted everybody to feel comfortable,” Farrell says about the decision not to play songs from other incarnations of Jane’s Addiction. “And I think that was the a good decision. In that regard, I like it. There are other songs that we could do with the original members. That I would like to see before everything is … I don’t want to say busted apart, but I don’t know the next time we’ll be touring again.”
The road to redemption hasn’t been without its bumps, though. Last year, Farrell told a journalist the band planned on entering the studio and recording a new album after a tour in Australia. One of those tracks was “True Love,” a song the band debuted on tour in 2023. But while “Imminent Redemption” reached the public, no album materialized.
“I’m sad to say we got those two songs out, and I thought we were going in a great direction, and all of a sudden, you know, arguing started happening again,” Farrell says with disappointment. “But we’ll still go forward,” he adds. “I’m not going to give up. Not giving up on this. I have to put my money where my mouth is. If I want to talk about freedom and redemption, I’ve gotta live it—and I’ve gotta be truthful too, about it. So, hang in there and pray, really pray for us. I’m praying for the world to to come together.”
Listen to the entire interview with Perry Farrell at the embedded Spotify player, or go to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Amazon Music or Everand.
Two years after Avril Lavigne released her game-changing debut album Let Go, another pop-punk princess arrived on the scene and made quite a splash. Unlike her sister Jessica, who had emerged as a more traditional pop artist, Ashlee Simpson came with an edge: jet black hair, grunge style, and an affinity for rock music. In […]
On Friday (July 19), the music world received something it hasn’t gotten often over the last 10 years: a new “Weird Al” Yankovic song.
“Polkamania!” is not a new parody, but a polka medley, the type of which he would often include on his full-lengths — a mash-up of pop smashes performed by Yankovic, with his accordion coursing through the different melody snippets. Since he hasn’t released an album since 2014’s Mandatory Fun, which made history as the first comedy album to debut at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 chart, Yankovic had a decade’s worth of pop hits to select from, and created a pastiche of Hot 100 chart-toppers from across the past 10 years.
That list ranges from Taylor Swift’s “Shake It Off” to Olivia Rodrigo’s “Vampire” to the Encanto smash “We Don’t Talk About Bruno” — to, rather improbably, Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion’s “WAP.” And the new song was also given an eye-popping music video, which sews together different styles of animation from some of Yankovic’s favorite filmmakers and collaborators.
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Yankovic — who has kept busy over the past decade by touring, releasing a handful of remixes and scattered tracks, and working on the 2022 fictionalized biopic Weird: The Al Yankovic Story, which he co-wrote and co-produced — hopes that “Polkamania!” scratches an itch for longtime listeners, who have been waiting years for his new takes on popular music. “For some, I suppose it will be nostalgic,” the 64-year-old tells Billboard, “because it sounds very much like every other polka medley I’ve done, and they haven’t heard that in a while. And for some people, this will be a time capsule — if you’ve been out of touch and not listened to pop radio in the last 10 years, this is a good four-minute refresher course!”
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Below, Yankovic discusses his new song, his decision to move away from the album format, and the artist who immediately OK’ed his latest parody. (Note: this interview has been edited for clarity.)
When did the idea for “Polkamania!” start coming together?
A while ago, maybe even a year ago. It’s been in the back of my mind for a while — I figured that I wanted to do something to celebrate the 10-year anniversary of Mandatory Fun. I wanted to come up with something new, so I’d have some new material to play next time I went out on the road. And a lot of years went by where I hadn’t done any parodies or polka medleys, and I just figured I had to kind of catch up — I had to do at least some commentary on the last decade in music. So this is my version of that.
Why was the 10th anniversary of Mandatory Fun important for you to commemorate?
Mandatory Fun is probably my last traditional “Weird Al” album. We released a double LP, the soundtrack to Weird, last year, and I’m sure there will be other projects like that. But in terms of actual “Weird Al” albums, I think that’s the last one, for a number of reasons.
But obviously I’m still trying to put out new material — it’s just that the album format for me has always felt a little restrictive, and not the best way for me to get my music out into the world. And I know that sounds a little ironic, because it’s not like I’ve exactly been prolific in terms of my recorded output in the last 10 years! But I still just feel like, I like the freedom of not having to release 12 songs all at once.
You spoke about moving away from the album model 10 years ago, when Mandatory Fun was released. Looking back on the past decade, do you feel like you made the right call?
Yeah, I think so. I don’t know if it makes sense in terms of a career or staying relevant, but those aren’t driving forces on my life — at this point in my life and career, I basically just want to do what feels right for me, what I enjoy doing. And I’ve taken a little bit of a break from recording, and have been focused on TV and film projects, and obviously a lot of touring as well. Recording is something that I would like to think will always be a part of my life and my career — it’s just that, now, I’m not beholden to a record label, I don’t owe anybody anything, and I just kind of work at my own pace.
Did “Polkamania!” come together like your previous polka medleys, in terms of the composition and squeezing the different melodies together?
Very much. I hadn’t done it in a few years, but it was kind of like riding a bike. I think this is my 13th or 14th polka medley, so it’s second nature to me. So the arrangement came together pretty quickly, once I had an approved list of songs that I could use.
Was it always going to be a smattering of different hits released over the past decade?
Yeah, that was always the idea. I think I actually even limited it to songs that had hit No. 1 on [the Billboard Hot 100], to have it narrowed down a little bit while looking at a decade’s worth of music. Then I made a little chart — like, how many weeks was this No. 1? Based on that, and based on my general feeling about how important each song was in the zeitgeist, I submitted my list to my manager, who then had the job of going out to all the artists and agents and managers and publishers and reps to see if we could actually get them cleared.
Did it take a while to get all the songs cleared, compared to previous songs or medleys?
It’s always about the same. Some people get back to your right away — I think [“Bruno” songwriter] Lin-Manuel Miranda took about 30 seconds. And some took a while, and I had to be more aggressive and track people down, see if I had any friends of friends that knew the artists, that kind of thing.
Listening to the medley for the first time and not knowing which songs are going to appear, I immediately recognized when you launched into “Shake It Off” or “Old Town Road,” but it took me a few seconds for “WAP,” and then I went, “Wait… is this…”
I have to say, that’s my favorite! Once we got the Taylor Swift song, I thought, “Okay, we’ve got a medley now” — but “WAP” was the one I was really, really hoping we would get, just because I thought that would be my personal favorite.
Who was behind the concept of the animated video?
A lot of people that I’ve worked with before, like Bill Plympton and Augenblick Studios and Ghostbot, and some people that I’ve been fans of for a long time – li-ke Cyriak, who’s a British animator who does these amazing surrealistic pieces, and Vivienne Medrano, who does Hazbin Hotel. It’s really an amazing list of talented animators, and I’m just thrilled with what they’ve come up with.
What’s it been like to prep a traditional song and video release like this again?
It’s fun! I mean, I haven’t had this kind of deadline and anxiety, everything that comes with a new release — the suspense of “How’s it going to do?,” and this kind of media blitz. We did a bit of that with the movie, but it feels a bit more personal when it’s your recorded work. So I’m very excited to be doing this project, and hopefully it’ll lead to more.
So what’s next? You’re always working on different projects…
I have five or six things that are in current stages of development, and I can’t speak of them, because some of them will probably happen and some of them probably won’t. So I’ve learned my lesson not to talk too much about things that might happen because, this town being what it is, oftentimes, things never work out. But hopefully a few things well! That’s what I’m counting on.
Scott Stapp remembers feeling young and determined — an unknown singer, certain he wouldn’t be for long — when Creed started in the mid-’90s, more than half a lifetime ago. “We wanted to write timeless songs,” Stapp asserts to Billboard.
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Practicing with his new band members in Florida’s panhandle roughly 30 years ago, Stapp would discuss his outsized dreams in drummer Scott Phillips’ living room. “That was an actual goal,” Stop continues, leaning forward in his chair, “that the band would write things that would stand the test of time. It was a lofty goal! And I don’t think we ever knew, during our run, if we really accomplished that.”
Indeed, the general longevity of Creed’s biggest hits was something of a question mark for a while. In their turn-of-the-century heyday, Creed’s burly post-grunge anthems were everywhere, as Stapp, guitarist Mark Tremonti, Phillips and bassist Brian Marshall scored multiple top 10 smashes on the Hot 100 and sold millions of albums behind them. Chest-thumping sing-alongs like “Higher,” “With Arms Wide Open” and “My Sacrifice” earned prime MTV plays and crossed over to pop radio; for years, the quartet was undoubtedly one of the most bankable rock bands in the world.
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Then: a breakup, personal problems, haphazard reunion and prolonged hiatus. By the dawn of the streaming era in the early 2010s, post-grunge had receded from popular rock and Creed’s mainstream footprint had evaporated. Their biggest songs could have been shrugged off as relics of a bygone moment in music history — maybe, in spite of the towering initial success, they wouldn’t endure after all.
Yet as the four members of Creed sit together in midtown Manhattan on a Tuesday afternoon in June 2024, the mood is light, and the guys — all of whom have entered their fifties over the past year-plus — are clearly enjoying a sea change in how their catalog is being treated. They’re at the SiriusXM offices, prepping for an in-studio performance of songs like “Higher” and “My Sacrifice”; the day before, they played both hits on Good Morning America.
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Earlier that month, a mariachi band made the Internet rounds for covering “Higher” at Globe Life Field, the same stadium that was blasting the song throughout the Texas Rangers’ run to a World Series victory last fall. And of course, the latest viral moments follow the Super Bowl commercial in February, the SZA shout-out last November, and plenty of TikTok remixes in between.
As they pal around ahead of a SiriusXM showcase and crack jokes about too-early call times (their GMA soundcheck was at 5:30 AM), Marshall slips in that his five-year-old daughter was singing their 2002 power ballad “One Last Breath” that morning, albeit with some misplaced lyrics. Stapp adds that he’s noticed a lot of the social media championing and TikTok trends engineered by younger listeners — proof positive that, even as the nostalgia cycle plays a major factor in the band’s reunion and resurgence, his decades-old goal for Creed’s music to persist was ultimately accomplished.
“To see that happening for Creed, with a whole new generation of fans and listeners? It’s just… very rewarding,” Stapp says, his voice catching. “I mean, we’ve been through a lot, man — individually, as a band. I mean, this,” he continues, gesturing toward his band mates, “it’s just so emotional. Your eyes water. You tear up. You’re just grateful, because it really could have gone in another direction.”
Creed’s catalog has not just endured — now, there’s real demand to experience its full power live. The band’s 2024 North American reunion trek, which kicked off last night (July 17) in Green Bay, has turned into one of the hottest rock tickets of the year. A pair of Creed cruises got the reunion started in April, and after announcing a summer 2024 amphitheater run last October, Creed added 20 fall arena shows to their itinerary in February, citing “overwhelming fan demand.”
During a topsy-turvy year in the touring industry, with other arena tours being downgraded or canceled as the market readjusts following a post-pandemic boom, Creed’s team expects most of the band’s upcoming dates — including the band’s first headlining show at New York’s Madison Square Garden since 2000, set for Nov. 29 — to sell out, and is already eyeing opportunities for 2025.
“It’s a pretty unbelievable comeback, as comebacks go,” says Ken Fermaglich, the band’s longtime agent at UTA. “The consumers are out there and want to connect with the music, whether it’s on the nostalgia side for the fan that was aware of it from years ago, or the newer fan that’s never gotten to see them.”
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Although it’s been over a decade since Creed last toured together in 2012, plenty of rock fans remember their commercial apex, which began with singles like “My Own Prison,” “One” and “What’s This Life For” garnering airplay in the band’s local Tallahassee scene before debut album My Own Prison was scooped up by Wind-up Records in 1997 and spread across the nation. Commanding the post-grunge strain of popular rock that sprouted up from the alternative explosion of the mid-‘90s, Creed turned My Own Prison into a smash debut, with 6.5 million copies sold to date, according to Luminate. Their 1999 follow-up Human Clay turned even bigger singles — “Higher” was an uptempo anthem ripe for stadium halftime shows, and “With Arms Wide Open” actually topped the Hot 100 for a week in November 2000 — into RIAA-certified diamond status: a whopping 11.7 million copies sold.
When Creed became a mega-selling act, “We were kids, really — 24 or 25, as things went through the roof,” Marshall recalls. “Having to navigate that at that time in your life is really tough. And I turned to substances.”
Marshall departed the group due to substance abuse issues in 2000, and Stapp also struggled with personal issues, including depression and problems with self-medicating, in the following years. Creed’s third album, 2001’s Weathered, sold another 6.5 million copies, but a rocky tour in support of the album led to prolonged inactivity, then a 2004 breakup.
Creed reunited for 2009’s Full Circle, but the industry had changed, the hits had dried up and the mainstream had moved on. The album sold less than one-tenth the copies (455,000) of their previous three. By Creed’s 2012 tour, the arena shows were a distant memory, and theaters were filled only with the most diehard supporters. That run grossed $2.3 million and sold 49,000 tickets over 20 reported shows, according to Billboard Boxscore — compared to a $39.5 million gross and 932,000 tickets sold over 86 shows for their 2002 tour.
All four members stayed busy after Creed went back on hiatus after the 2012 tour: Stapp has released three solo albums since 2013, including this year’s Higher Power, while the other three members performed with singer Myles Kennedy in Alter Bridge, in addition to Tremonti leading his own band, Tremonti. Meanwhile, Marshall got sober in 2012, and Stapp’s well-documented road to recovery commenced in the mid-2010s. And while their other musical projects earned live followings, none of them scored hits of the stature of “Higher” or “With Wide Arms Open.” Plus, as Stapp puts it, “There’s a chemistry and synergy that we have when we play together — that only we have when we play together.”
According to Fermaglich, discussions of a Creed reunion began in 2021, when the touring industry was still working through COVID-related uncertainty. “The time wasn’t quite right yet,” he says, “but it got everybody talking, to a point of, ‘Oh, maybe this is a good idea.’”
Conversations picked up last year, and all four members concluded that 2024 would be a strong window for a reunion tour, in between side projects and personal commitments. Meanwhile, the band members came back in touch last fall during the Rangers’ World Series run, after the eventual champs had adopted “Higher” as their unofficial anthem at home games. “The four of us were on a text thread together, watching the game and cheering on the team, celebrating a win or lamenting a loss,” Phillips recalls. “It was a nice bond to have again, where it was just the four of us communicating with each other, reconnecting as friends — not only as band mates, but as people.”
The band tested the waters for ticket demand with the July 2023 announcement of the Summer of ’99 Cruise — setting sail in April 2024, featuring post-grunge contemporaries like 3 Doors Down, Tonic, Buckcherry and Fuel, and boasting a reunited Creed as the main draw. Tremonti was responsible for the Summer of ’99’ idea, and the band partnered with immersive festival producers Sixthman on the cruise, which Fermaglich says “sold out very, very fast. We started to realize, ‘Wow, there’s a lot of demand here,’” so they added a second cruise for the following week.
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Phillips felt the nerves return during Creed’s first performance in over a decade on the inaugural cruise — but after the first few songs, he witnessed how locked-in the crowd was, exhaled, and could “sit back and enjoy the moment,” he says. Tremonti chimes in that the energy provided by Stapp, who has circled in and out of the lives of the other members over the years, gave him the boost he needed during the band’s first performance back.
“The most nerve-racking thing about it was that you knew every cell phone in the boat is going to be out, filming those first few songs,” Tremonti says. “Those first performances are gonna live forever on YouTube! But Scott stepped on stage like this was just another day, confident as can be, which makes us go, ‘All right, we’re good.’”
When the amphitheater tour dates that would follow the cruises went on sale last fall, Fermaglich says that Creed’s team was “blown away by the initial sales,” and that the feedback received about ticket buyer demographics encouraged them to consider adding arena dates to follow the summer run. “Some of the ticketing data made us understand that younger ticket buyers were out there,” Fermaglich explains, “and that got everyone pretty pumped, because it meant that we were turning it over to some extent. We would have the fans who remembered the band from the late 90s and early 2000s, but also a new fan who is learning the catalog, potentially via social media.”
The current numbers back up that theory: radio stations, primarily at rock and alternative formats, are still playing Creed’s hits, with 31,000 plays of their songs on U.S. terrestrial and satellite radio over the first six months of 2024, according to Luminate. But over that same time period (Dec. 29, 2023 – June 27, 2024), the band’s catalog earned a robust 263 million official on-demand song streams, with the Spotify generation either returning to or uncovering Creed’s discography.
“They had big songs, and those records crossed over to pop radio,” says Brad Hardin, COO of national programming at iHeartMedia. “And when you see the show, it’s hit after hit after hit.” (Indeed, at last night’s tour opener at Green Bay’s Resch Center, the band rolled out all of their biggest songs, and often accompanied them with flame-spitting pyrotechnics.)
Creed’s 2024 return is a perfect storm of a touring proposition: longtime fans haven’t seen them live in over a decade, and the hits hold up well enough to attract new listeners. Although the bands that made up the macho-leaning post-grunge movement of a quarter-century ago made for a critical punching bag at the time, Creed’s wide-reaching sing-alongs “have aged in a way that we hoped they would back in the day,” says Fermaglich. “The production really stands the test of time, and the songs, the melodies, still work well right now, and don’t sound out of place with contemporary rock.”
With that in mind, Creed and their team are already mapping out a future following this year’s big reunion: The Summer of ’99 Cruise will return and set sail on Apr. 9, 2025, and beyond that, Fermaglich says the plan is “take a look at different opportunities that are out there.” Although nothing is yet confirmed, those possibilities could include international dates following this year’s focus on North American markets, and that could also mean more North American gigs — including festivals and “bigger shows in bigger buildings with other bands,” he says. “We’ll see! I think the short answer is, we’re open for business.”
Will the Creed revival eventually extend to new music, and potentially the band’s first album together in over 15 years? “We haven’t written anything or thrown anything out there, but I think it’s definitely something that’s on our minds,” says Stapp. Phillips points out that a lot of Creed’s early music resulted from soundcheck sessions — kernels of ideas that were drawn out by the quartet’s natural chemistry, then fashioned into global hits. Maybe that same connection can spring back to life all these years later.
Stapp nods in agreement. “We’ve always been a band that functions better just being in the moment, instead of making a decision and then having to force it,” he says. “Let’s just let it happen. That’ll be where the best material comes from.”
For now, the response to the band’s live return — watching one cruise turn into two, then amphitheater shows beget arena gigs — has been humbling for the members. “We were hopeful — but, you never know,” Phillips says of fan interest ahead of the reunion launch. Creed is thankful to be in a position where more shows need to be added, and venue sizes need to increase. It’s a professional moment that was never promised, and the band is savoring it.
“We’re sort of listening to the universe,” Phillips continues. “If you tell us ‘Don’t do it,’ we won’t do it. But everybody’s saying, ‘Go for it.’”
Cash Cobain is up to his old antics again. The Bronx rapper and producer has been known to post snippets of songs he’s making on social media. Sometimes he releases the finished product, sometimes he doesn’t. So there’s no telling if he will ever officially drop his remix of Laila!’s viral “Not My Problem” song. […]
We detail the back-and-forth that exploded on social media last night and carried over to this morning.
We witnessed a coronation last night.
Kendrick Lamar is now unequivocally the King of Rap, and has officially entered god status on the West Coast.
He walked on stage dressed in a red hoodie with a white tee underneath and an iced-out crucifix draped over it, blue jeans, white, silver and red Nike Shox, and a red baseball hat. Why is this significant? The outfit was eerily similar to the one 2Pac wore during the 1994 Source Awards when he performed “Out on Bail” with his rap group Thug Life.
Pac, who at the time was dealing with a bunch of legal issues in his personal life, hijacked the Source stage while A Tribe Called Quest were accepting their award for Rap Group of the Year. As the story goes, this performance wasn’t planned: Members of Pac’s entourage pressed the person in charge of sound and made him play the track. The rapper and the rest of Thug Life then went on stage, snatched the microphone from Q-Tip and started performing the song, which caused a brief rift between 2Pac and Tribe. Whether the outfit was intentional or not, we quickly understood the message Kendrick was trying to send.
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The Compton emcee rose up from underneath the stage draped in red light and started his set with “Euphoria” — a song some said held little replay value. However, the lie detector determined that untrue, because the crowd at the Forum knew every single word and went bar-for-bar for the entire six-minute song. And, to circle back to the outfit he was wearing on stage, Kendrick added a new line to the song’s last verse: “Give me Tupac ring back and I might give you a little respect.” As if to say, “Hey, man, we can start to resolve this situation if you just return this West Coast artifact” — like a plot to an Indiana Jones movie. He also snuck in the first verse of “6:16 in LA”, and performed his “Like That” verse, adding insult to injury.
However, the highlight of the night wasn’t Black Hippy reuniting onstage or Dr. Dre whispering “I see dead people” after performing “California Love.” It was when Kendrick performed “Not Like Us” not once, not twice, but six times in a row. He held the crowd in the palm of his hand, like only a true MC could. They hung onto every word, even doing the rapping for him and finishing his verses at times.
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A crowd of people screaming “OV-Hoe” and calling you a “certified pedophile” already can’t be a good thing. But every time you thought things couldn’t get worse for Drake last night, they did.
When Dot and Mustard were in the middle of the third or fourth replay of the song, and NBA stars (and fellow L.A. legends) DeMar DeRozan and Russell Westbrook went onstage and started doing their dance, that’s when I realized just how bad things have gotten for Drake. Every artist, celebrity and friend of Kendrick’s in attendance danced on the Toronto rapper’s proverbial grave in the name of West Coast solidarity. It seemed as if a big chunk of the culture chose a side.
I think some are underestimating the impact this can have on Drake’s overall appeal within the hip-hop community. I’m not talking about some kid in some suburban cul-de-sac, I’m talking about the kids in the streets. They’re the real tastemakers, and a lot of them who hold influence in Los Angeles were on that stage last night.
After the back-and-forth ended and Kendrick was crowned the de facto winner of the battle, many wondered how this would affect both artists’ careers. Would Drake still have the golden touch that he’s enjoyed for the past decade or so? Would he shake off this loss, much like he did with the Pusha T beef, and drop an undeniable hit like “God’s Plan?” Would he still be the top guy in rap? Would Kendrick take the W, but refuse the crown, and retreat back into his fortress of solitude until it was time to drop his next album?
Well, now we seem to have some answers: It’s too early to tell if The Drake Effect is truly a thing of the past, but his collaboration with Sexyy Red debuting at No. 44 on the Hot 100 and sliding from there is not a great look. Neither was the parody redo of “Hey There Delilah” that he hopped on for some reason.
Meanwhile, Kendrick has continued to do the opposite of what everyone, including Drake, thought he would do: Instead of vanishing, he stayed put and threw one of L.A.’s biggest rap shows in recent memory. Dot’s appeal in the hip-hop community was always A1, but after last night, it’s safe to say he’s now occupying the top spot in rap. Kendrick is the king. And he’s not the king because some critics and talking heads or kids tweeting from a suburban cul-de-sac said he’s the king. He’s the king because last night everyone — the streets, the music industry, the fans, the athletes — showed us that he is. They all popped out for their friend, their peer, their idol, their king.
“F—k that, this s—t making me emotional, man. F—k that, we been f—d up since Nipsey died, hold up. We’ve been f—d up since Kobe died, hold up,” he told the crowd as he wrangled everybody for a family picture. “Let the world see this. You ain’t seen this many sections on one stage keeping it together and having peace, hold up.”
Drake will be fine mainstream-wise, but he’s always wanted to be accepted by hip-hop, and right now he’s on the outside looking in. Last night proved Kendrick has more respect and cultural cachet than Drake can ever imagine having, and the must sting to an artist as massive and influential as Drake is.
Meanwhile, there’s not another artist in his generation that would be able to pull off what Kendrick pulled off last night. He had rival gangs on stage for L.A., for California, for Hip-Hop. Kendrick was running around like he was Pac fresh out on bail last night, and showed the rest of the rap game that no region is quite like the West.