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Navy Blue is an interesting person.

He was childhood friends with Earl Sweatshirt and introduced him to Tyler, The Creator, with Earl then returning the favor years later by introducing Navy to the late Brooklyn rapper Ka, which led to not only a working relationship, but a genuine friendship. He came up as a skateboarder and model, often seen in Supreme lookbooks, before he decided to share his music with the world.

I remember noticing the name Navy Blue floating around the underground during the late 2010s, but it wasn’t until he dropped his debut album Àdá Irin in 2020 that I realized Navy Blue and Sage were the same person. Maybe that was by design, as he said in multiple interviews that rapping under the moniker was a safe space for him to be able to express his intimate feelings.

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In 2023, he made is major label debut under Def Jam with the Budgie-produced Ways of Knowing. However, he was subsequently dropped from the label, which in turn inspired him to release Memoirs in Armour a year later. “Due to the shift in circumstances, this project became a refuge to me, I hope you enjoy it,” he shared on social media. “I’m happy to be putting this album out independently, the way I had always intended to be releasing music.”

He continued to record music, and eventually realized that he was making a follow up to Memoirs — which had themes of knighthood and armor — while The Sword & The Soaring was touching on things like the sword Archangel Michael is often depicted with, and how our angels in heaven protect us here on earth.

Billboard talked over Zoom with Navy Blue as he was in Europe on tour with British MC Loyle Carner — about the themes of this latest project, why being vulnerable is important (especially for men) and his close friendship with the late, great Ka.

What’s the underlying theme of this album?

Well, even in, you know, posing the question about my brother… I mean, death definitely kind of created this like doorway for me to walk through, in terms of connecting with my own spirituality. And growing up, I always viewed my brother as like a guardian angel. And a lot like Archangel Michael who, as the story goes, defeated Satan and expelled the other fallen angels to protect the heavens against evil. So, this album kind of was birthed out of that idea, because I always saw angel Michael depicted with a sword, and all of my music praises the people that have passed on and honors them.

Why did you go with “Orchards” for the lead single?

It was the first one that I did that really made me feel like I was making an album. It kind of solidified the message. I’ve always been a fan of Child Actor, and his beats are just different. They make me think differently. They’re a lot like movies. I always see imagery when I hear his music and his unorthodox approach to beatmaking. The way that like that some of his beats have this…they like pump almost. I don’t want to talk about his, like, beatmaking “drip,” but I can hear the things that he does where his music feels really alive. So, it’s really cool to nestle myself into that world. With “Orchards” specifically, when I heard that beat, I was like, “Wow.”

And another beautiful thing that Child Actor does, is he’ll send me a beat and he’ll make me feel really special and say, “You’re the only one that I know will get this,” and it feels good to be thought of in that way, and the manner in which we communicate with each other, and constantly being like, “Yo, bro, thank you.” We say thank you to each other very often. And since he’s kind of become a part of my life, and my music making, I felt this new kind of portal open up that I didn’t know was was there, which is really nice.

Why did you decide to follow up Memoirs in Armour with this particular project?

It’s not as strategic and as thought out other than it’s just what came through me at the time. I’m always working on music, so I generally try to approach making music through the lens of just being a conduit and whatever the spirit has for me, that’s what I need to say. So, it’s not like, “Ah, I’m going to do this one.” It’s just where my focus, went because I had another project that’s been done for a while.

Instead of being stagnant and waiting around, I started working mainly with Child Actor sending me a bunch of joints, and the theme just presented itself especially coming off of releasing Memoirs in Armour last year with this theme of like knighthood and armor. And then it just felt like I was discussing the battle on this project. So, I felt like the sword was the earthly tool used for battle and the soaring meaning the heavenly council, and like our angels and protectors and how they intervene. It just felt like the culmination of my struggles of becoming and the support of what I call my angels.

Your stuff is always so personal. Is it like a release for you? Because you’ve said that you make music really for yourself, and if people can connect with it, they connect with it.

It’s definitely a release. You release it from the confines of your head and you get to witness other people have their own experience with it — and that’s really gratifying, and makes me feel like I’m giving something to the world, especially during a time like this right now, where there’s just so much going on in the world, a lot of sadness, a lot of traumatic events, we’re extremely desensitized. It makes me feel like I’m putting good energy into the world.

And just feels like it gives me purpose, and I just want to make other people feel seen and heard and not alone through their experiences. If I could offer any help through sharing what I go through and how I get through my hardships, then I feel pretty content with who I am and what I’m doing. Because I know there’s a lot of music that’s very fleeting, and I know there’s probably people who don’t identify with my music, and that’s okay because I make music for those who it speaks to. You know, like Ka said, “If it don’t move you, then move on.”

But I love knowing that there are people that are invested in my journey and simultaneously invested in theirs, and we kind of get to have this kinda like dance where we grow together. It’s always been my goal to speak to an experience for somebody who doesn’t have the words. I’ve only been on earth for 28 years, so I don’t have that much experience, but I feel like none of the experiences that I’ve had in getting through depression and addiction and things like that, I feel like none of it was in vain, because it gave me reference and it allows me the insight to speak on an experience that maybe somebody else is going through.

I know at first you were kind of apprehensive with sharing your music, and I feel like rap is a form of therapy for you, at least that’s how most of your stuff comes across to me. Do you feel nervous about having your feelings out there?

As human beings we’re deeply concerned about how we’re perceived, and we want to control as much of it as we can. I feel very proud to share that with the world. I think it’s a shame that the world that we live in that you get, “Wow, that’s so powerful,” for telling your truth. It’s just a testament to where we’re at where me just talking about my feelings is like, “Wow, it’s so vulnerable.” I’m just trying to shine a little light on a path that doesn’t get enough love, which is self love and self discovery and honest expression.

We’re fed so many lies and people are talking about things that don’t hold much weight. All we really have is this lifetime, and I just don’t want to squander my opportunity. I want to talk about real things. I think there’s enough music out there that doesn’t really talk about things that are of any importance. I try to not get in my own head about that — but yes, as a man also, yeah, it definitely can feel that people might think I’m soft or whatever. But, you know, I see strength in that.

It’s very powerful for men to talk about feelings and lived experience. There’s a stigma behind that, so it feels quite important for me — because it’s who I am, it’s how I’ve always been, I always kind of lead with my heart first. I’ve been living this way since I was a kid, man, feeling like, “Man, it’s hard out here.” I wear my heart on my sleeve. I cry, I go through stuff, and I tell people how I feel, and that’s not normalized. It can be a little isolating at times, but as I release more music, it’s attracting more people that think like me and want to better themselves. And that feels really good.

Did you keep a journal growing up or write poetry? Your style kind of feels like poetry.

Yeah, I grew up writing a lot. It just it always felt like the place that I could make sense of my thoughts. And yeah, I think for a long time I used to kind of push against that like, you know, “Oh, it’s poetry.” But, yeah, that’s exactly what it is. Rap music is poetry, whether it comes across poetic, quote unquote, or not. I don’t journal as much anymore, but I definitely approach writing as a form of journaling. I try to welcome in God, and just see what comes out.

When I’m going through a tough time, it’s generally like the first line that just — whether the music creates the space for me to do that or something that I’ve seen — it doesn’t really matter, it just happens. That’s the beauty of it. It doesn’t feel so forced. I’m not going into a studio and forcing myself to make a song. It’s just a natural expression for me, and poetry has always been a way for me to feel. Poetry is beauty, man, it’s like a place where you get to say things in a manner that… you don’t get to speak that way in everyday life. So, it’s really nice to to make these experiences that were painful and make them beautiful.

I know you had the situation with Def Jam and I wanted to ask, how did you end up at Def Jam and what did you learn from that experience?

I guess I learned to trust my gut and that there’s nothing that a label could do for me that I can’t do for myself. I’ve always been a self-sustainable person and sometimes, in hopes of bringing your music to more people, you lose a little bit of yourself in the process. It kind of reminds me of when Drake won a won a Grammy a few years ago and he got on stage and he said, “This don’t mean nothing.” He said, “If you got people coming out to your shows in the snow, in the rain, you’ve already won. You don’t need this.” And I always loved when he said that, because that’s how I feel. If there’s one person in the world who puts their headphones on and vibes out to my music, I’m content.

I learned through that process and I’m grateful for the experience. I’m grateful for it all. No experience, no matter how stressful or annoying as things might be, none of it is in vain. It’s all part of the greater plan. Had that situation not happened, Memoirs in Armour wouldn’t have come out. I wouldn’t have made that album. I wouldn’t have made The Sword and The Soaring, so that was the blessing hidden in the frustration of what happened with them.

Why did you decide to record Memoirs after that situation.

Yeah, I didn’t want to be sitting around. I just gotta start making new joints and revisit a couple old joints that I thought weren’t good enough that were sitting in the hard drive for a year or two. I was like, “You know, these are good. People deserve to hear these.” Joints like “Slow” and “Time Slips” and “Say the Word,” joints that have just been sitting there, and I’m glad that they got to come out. You know, had the situation with Def Jam not happened, then I wouldn’t have made that album, and I’m proud of it.

There’s definitely more music to come that I’m excited for the world to hear, but it felt necessary to do The Sword and The Soaring, because Memoirs was only 10 joints. I thought it was very concise and a solid album, but it feels good to give the listeners a bit more and something to really sit with and digest and dive all the way in.

You mentioned being self sufficient earlier and I was curious about your relationship with Ka, because he was very big on that. He recorded, produced, made his own videos. Mailed everything out himself. Can you kind of talk about the relationship you guys had a little bit?

For sure, man. Ka’s a one-of-a-kind artist, and it’s very rare that you get to meet your heroes, even if the saying goes that you shouldn’t meet them. But in this case, I met one of my heroes, and out of that blossomed a really beautiful friendship and relationship. He became somebody that I could confide in. He was like a big brother/uncle figure. It’s almost like I felt connected to him, like I knew him before this life type s—t. I remember meeting him early on, and the first bit of advice that he gave me in regards to making music, he said, “Only make music with people that you’ve built a friendship with,” because then what you make is real. It’s not like a transaction. So, that was always some of my favorite advice — because that means the world to me, when you make music with somebody that you really connect with.

When Ka was finally willing to work with me… I didn’t even ask, I just played him a joint and he said, “Nah, send me that.” That solidified who I was to him. It made me feel really seen, understood. Even before knowing him, his music always felt like a hug to me. When I heard his music for the first time, it fully shifted everything that I was doing — not that I was doing anything different per se, but it gave me purpose. I just wanna make people feel, I wanna make someone else feel the way that I feel when I listen to this guy. He’s speaking about life in a way that feels sacred. The way that he speaks about his lived experience in such a poetic manner, in such a simple way that I could understand was always so intriguing. So, of course, as we do when we’re inspired, I tried to just take that little bit of magic that I was offered and tried to do something with it.

I mean, the little bit of magic being that, like, just that moment when I was like, “Wow, I want to do this,” and he was incredibly supportive of me. And beyond the music, he was a great friend and a confidant of sorts, someone that I could rely on, especially as an elder. Someone that I could really talk about the things that I was going through and get his advice on. I always yearned for that kind of big brother figure, and Ka was a force. I feel really lucky to even have gotten to know him, or to have known him in this lifetime.

How’s your experience been performing overseas?

The past 14 shows that I’ve done out here in Europe have been beautiful. Especially as a supporting act, because there’s a lot of new listeners — so it’s like, I’m going out there and I’m sharing my music with new people, and it’s really beautiful to witness people connect with it in the present moment, which is nice. Without any reference to who I am, what the music sounds like, I just come on the stage — and there’s definitely some listeners that are there — but it’s beautiful. It’s hard to do, but it’s also why I do it: for the experience, just challenging myself to get out there and be present, smile and share my music.

I definitely feel like I’ve left some of those shows with new listeners and people going, “Wow, that was beautiful” — especially with the language barrier, maybe they go home, and they want to have a deeper look into what I’m saying. I have some beautiful moments where I’m singing “La Noche” with people in the crowd, and it’s really amazing, man. I’m really grateful. Loyle Carner is a really solid dude, and he’s been really helpful, especially with how to navigate going out there and sharing such vulnerable music and feeling like sometimes you’re not getting anything back from the audience, but they’re listening. Just because they’re not bouncing and putting their hands up, they’re present, and they’re listening to what I have to say and that’s all I could ask for really.