State Champ Radio Cover Story
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“We all must make a choice — to be a hero or a villain.”
The familiarity of Morgan Freeman’s commanding voice couldn’t calm down the fans — 80,000 of them, reportedly — standing around Coachella’s Sahara Tent. The perilous tone of his monologue, paired with producer Mike Dean’s sinister synths, stressed the festival’s need for a hero. And comic book animations projected on either side of the stage illustrated there was only one man for the job.
Wearing a custom black Chrome Hearts suit, a masked Metro Boomin emerged from beneath the stage, his purple cross-embroidered cape fluttering in the desert wind. But regardless of the Academy Award-winning actor’s resounding introduction, it was the usually soft-spoken producer’s booming voice that caught festivalgoers — and one of his many guest performers — by surprise when he greeted the crowd.
“When we was done, Future kept telling me, ‘Bro, I ain’t know who the f–k was talking!’ ” Metro recalls. “ ‘I ain’t know you could do that! You be in a room and just be so quiet.’ ”
Future’s description of our hero’s usual alter-ego is true today as Metro sits at his own Boominati Studios in North Hollywood. He isn’t cloaked in his luxe costume; instead, he’s wearing a black Barriers hoodie with the image of Michael Jackson’s moonwalking silhouette highlighted by a baby blue spotlight. One of the studio’s ceiling lights floods him in the same blue as the bandanna wrapped around his tri-colored dreads.
He has gotten more comfortable in the spotlight lately. Over the last decade, Metro, 30, has transformed from a behind-the-scenes trap beat-maker to one of rap’s most in-demand producers. He has managed to take over pop music, too, and without compromising his signature sound, which is characterized by eerie synth loops, 808s, soulful samples and orchestral finishes and branded by his notorious producer tags. (“Metro Boomin want some more, n—a!”) So far, he has produced 115 Billboard Hot 100 songs, including 10 top 10 hits, among them Post Malone’s Quavo-featuring “Congratulations” and Future’s “Mask Off,” and two No. 1s, Migos’ “Bad and Boujee” (featuring Lil Uzi Vert) and The Weeknd’s “Heartless.”
But Metro’s latest solo album, Heroes & Villains — which he released Dec. 2, 2022, on Republic Records and his own label, Boominati Worldwide — continued his ascent into rarefied air: the producer-turned-successful artist. The sequel to his 2018 debut album, Not All Heroes Wear Capes, which topped the Billboard 200, and the second installment of an ongoing trilogy, Heroes & Villains built on Metro’s own cinematic universe, adding depth to his sound with more live instrumentation, like the horns on “Superhero (Heroes & Villains)” or the choral vocals on “Umbrella,” and assembling hip-hop Avengers like 21 Savage, Young Thug, Travis Scott and Don Toliver to perform their melodic and slick-tongued superpowers.
Heroes & Villains became Metro’s third No. 1 album, earning his biggest opening week yet, with 185,000 equivalent album units (according to Luminate), and its lead single, “Creepin’,” with The Weeknd and 21 Savage — a remake of Mario Winans’ 2004 R&B smash “I Don’t Wanna Know” (featuring Diddy and Enya) — spent the first half of 2023 in the Hot 100’s top 10, peaking at No. 3. Between Heroes & Villains’ No. 1 debut and Lil Uzi Vert’s Pink Tape, which topped the Billboard 200 in July, no other rap album reached No. 1 on the list, making it the longest wait in a calendar year for a rap album to lead the chart since 1993 (the year Metro was born).
Amiri sweater and jacket.
Sami Drasin
The album’s success was unsurprising to those paying attention to Metro’s creative promotion strategy for Heroes & Villains. He tapped Freeman, who narrated Metro and 21’s chart-topping album, Savage Mode II, to star alongside him in an action-packed short film directed by Gibson Hazard that also featured actor LaKeith Stanfield, Young Thug and Gunna. The clip kicked off his extensive rollout, which also involved an on-the-nose way to reveal the album’s featured artists.
A$AP Rocky had texted him one day about “this artist on Instagram that was doing all these comic book covers for hip-hop artists. And I was like, ‘Damn, this sh-t looks crazy,’ ” he recalls. “I DM’d [the artist, Alejandro Torrecilla], and I was like, ‘Yo, I’m finna start rolling my album out in three, four weeks. What if you did a cover for every artist on here and I just roll out the features that way?’ ”
The promotional efforts didn’t stop once the album was out: Metro embarked on a four-city in-store CD signing tour, debuted a live beat-making hologram of himself in Los Angeles and Miami, and projected his Heroes signal (from the cover of Not All Heroes Wear Capes) around the world (literally). “He was more in people’s face,” says Republic vp of marketing strategy Xiarra-Diamond Nimrod, who has worked with Metro since 2017. “[With Not All Heroes Wear Capes], we didn’t have as many in-store components. But this time around, we wanted him to have that interaction with [fans] and bring them into his world.”
The heightened visibility around Metro allowed the superproducer to transform into a superstar, separate from the ones with whom he regularly records. And more public-facing opportunities outside of music helped turn him into a household name: Earlier this year, he starred in and produced the music for Budweiser’s Super Bowl LVII ad and teamed up with the MLB Network for its Opening Day video, which was soundtracked by “On Time” and “Trance” from Heroes & Villains.
“That’s one of the things we discussed when we first met: Do you want to be that low-key producer who you know some of their songs but you can walk right past them today and not know who they were? Or do you want to be out and known, like Swizz Beatz, Timbaland or Pharrell [Williams]?” says his manager, Ryan Ramsey. “The numbers he’s doing on his own albums show he’s at that level where people are going to see him and say, ‘Hey, that’s Metro Boomin.’ ” Ramsey, who also manages Brandy, has represented Metro for the last two years under SALXCO, alongside the management company’s founder and CEO, Wassim “Sal” Slaiby; SALXCO vp of A&R Rahsaan “Shake” Phelps; and Amir “Cash” Esmailian through his own YCFU management company.
And while his No. 1 rap album set a high bar, getting a prime-time slot at Coachella served as the perfect climax for his rollout. “We had every intention of stealing the weekend,” Metro confidently says in retrospect.
Junya Watanabe jacket, Fendi pants, Louis Vuitton shoes.
Sami Drasin
In order to pull it off, he recruited a superstar-trained team: creative director La Mar C. Taylor, who works closely with The Weeknd; show director Ian Valentine, whose creative studio Human Person (which counts Billie Eilish and Post Malone as clients) was also responsible for animation, staging, lighting and content; choreographer Charm La’Donna, who works alongside major acts from Kendrick Lamar to Dua Lipa; and his longtime recording and mixing engineer Ethan Stevens, who helped him curate the setlist. He even passed on using Coachella’s designated livestreaming crew and hired his own to ensure the quality of the video and flow of the performance for folks at home.
“There was so many people advising me, ‘Don’t spend your money on that show.’ But I was like, ‘Nah, n—s have to get this,’ ” says Metro, who remains mum about how much Coachella paid him to perform but reveals he spent “over four times” that amount to ensure it happened just as he envisioned. “People were already hearing me different with this album. But they needed to see me different now.”
While his albums have established Metro as a masterful curator, “Trochella” confirmed he was an equally skillful showman. And much like his albums, he brought out his all-star collaborators, including The Weeknd, 21 Savage and Diddy for the first live performance of “Creepin’,’’ to perform the hits they share. While he mostly flexed his superproducer muscles from behind the DJ booth, he made sure to bask in his glory from the stage, too.
As Metro’s biggest risks — like dropping an album during the holiday season or investing a small fortune in an impressive Coachella set — have continued to pay off, he credits his unwavering dedication to the art. “Over time, [I’ve] established trust between me and my listeners, [so they know] that whatever I have to offer as far as music or anything, I’m definitely putting 1,000% into it,” he says. “It’s not about, ‘Oh, look at me like a star!’ Look at me like I care.”
Growing up in St. Louis, the producer born Leland Tyler Wayne looked up to hometown hero Nelly. Country Grammar was the first explicit CD he bought, and it inspired then-literally young Metro to become a rapper. But rapping requires beats, and since he couldn’t afford any, he decided to make his own. Producing turned into a bigger passion and came with added benefits, like not having to compete with so many other aspiring rappers — and sounding like a more legitimate profession to his mother, Leslie Wayne.
Leslie played an instrumental role in getting his career off the ground: When Metro was 13, she bought him his first laptop, where he downloaded the popular music production software FL Studio. And when he was in high school, she made 17-hour round-trip drives from St. Louis to Atlanta nearly every weekend so he could work with artists he connected with over social media, like OJ Da Juiceman and Gucci Mane — while still returning home before school on Monday morning. (Leslie died in June 2022, and Metro pays tribute to her often on social media and during live performances.)
He moved to Atlanta in 2012 to attend Morehouse College but dropped out after one semester to pursue music: In 2013, he got his big break when he produced Future’s acclaimed “Karate Chop” (featuring Lil Wayne). And Metro seemed to take over hip-hop in 2015: He joined the Rodeo Tour with Travis Scott and Young Thug as a supporting act and the latter’s touring DJ; produced most of Future’s DS2 album; worked on Scott’s debut album, Rodeo; and executive-produced Drake and Future’s joint mixtape, What a Time To Be Alive.
But he experienced a career-defining moment in February 2016 when Kanye West dropped The Life of Pablo. Right before premiering it during his Yeezy 3 fashion show at New York’s Madison Square Garden, West called Metro about one of the songs he had produced, “Father Stretch My Hands, Pt. 1.” “I didn’t put that tag on that beat. It’s Kanye’s sh-t,” Metro explains. “He asked for it like, ‘I’m finna play the album, but I need the tag on the song.’ And he just threw it in there real quick.” In a now viral clip, West is seen screaming and embracing a raccoon fur trapper hat-wearing Kid Cudi before “If Young Metro don’t trust you, I’m gon’ shoot you” blasts throughout the arena’s speakers. Metro’s tag catapulted him into the pop culture zeitgeist, from the numerous memes that flooded the internet immediately after to the hype it still creates whenever a DJ plays the song at a party. “That just took it to a whole ’nother stratosphere,” he reflects.
Amiri sweater, jacket, and pants.
Sami Drasin
From there, Metro continued building relationships with other rappers and elevating their music while reinforcing his reputation as the genre’s go-to producer. “A lot of times an artist will say, ‘I want to work with you, but send me beats.’ With Metro, it’s the opposite. He wants to create with you at a very intentional level,” says Vladimir “V Live” Samedi, who began working as Metro’s tour bus driver in 2016 before he was promoted to Boominati’s head of A&R. Metro dropped collaborative projects with Big Sean, Nav and 21 Savage, the lattermost of whom Metro has worked with on three full-lengths: Savage Mode, Without Warning (with Offset) and Savage Mode II. “Metro is the greatest producer of all time. I wouldn’t be where I am today without the help of my brother,” 21 Savage tells Billboard.
With prestige, a star-studded network and a stacked production discography, Metro had all the tools he needed to fly high on his own. He launched his Boominati Worldwide label in partnership with Republic in 2017 and, the following year, released his first solo album, Not All Heroes Wear Capes, a cohesive, superstar-filled set that plays out like a movie soundtrack. His hero motif stems from a family tradition: He, his mother and his four younger siblings used to “always go see every single Marvel movie together. We done followed the whole timeline on some nerd sh-t,” he reflects. “It has always been an interest to me.”
Sony Pictures Animation, which produced 2018’s Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse in association with Marvel, took notice. The studio worked with Republic on the first Spider-Verse soundtrack (which yielded Post Malone and Swae Lee’s mega-smash, “Sunflower”). When the time came to work on its follow-up, Sony Pictures Motion Picture Group president of music Spring Aspers says it “was just pure luck in terms of timing” that the label had just finished working on Metro’s Heroes & Villains campaign and decided he was its “ideal partner.”
“It started off with him doing a couple songs, and then it just got to the point where I went to him and was like, ‘Yo, do you want to executive-produce this whole thing? Because it looks like I’m going to have that conversation,’ ” Ramsey recalls. “He said, ‘Man, that would be dope!’ ”
Martine Rose suit.
Sami Drasin
Metro started working on the Spider-Verse soundtrack at the end of December — the same month he released Heroes & Villains. “We’re already on a roll; might as well keep it going,” says Stevens, who also served as executive producer. Compared with the two-and-a-half years they spent working on Metro’s solo album, the duo knocked out the Spider-Verse soundtrack in six months. Metro Boomin Presents Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse taps a diverse web of artists — Don Toliver, Nas, Lil Wayne, James Blake, Myke Towers, Mora and more — to deliver an ingenious mix of hip-hop, pop, Latin and Afrobeats that nods to the film’s protagonist Miles Morales’ African American and Puerto Rican heritage.
“He once texted us a line that a string quartet had played,” says Phil Lord, one of the film’s co-writers and co-producers, of what became the opening sequence of “Am I Dreaming” with A$AP Rocky and Roisee, an up-and-coming St. Louis artist whom Metro discovered on YouTube years ago. “Then he had [Mike Dean] come over and do this really wild synth stuff. That became the song that’s on the end credits of the movie. And now that’s going to be the official Oscar submission for the film.”
When the time came to promote the soundtrack, Lord and Chris Miller, another one of the film’s co-writers and co-producers, took a page out of Metro’s playbook. “In the first movie, there was this phenomenon where people were making their own ‘Spidersonas,’ ” Miller says. When they saw what he did with Heroes & Villains, they tapped the film’s character designer, Kris Anka, to create Spidersonas for each of the featured artists on his soundtrack.
But they had a special plan for Metro’s own caricature. The day before Metro attended one of the Spider-Verse film screenings, Lord and Miller asked him to swing by the studio an hour early to test out some lines they had written for him. “The Republic team, our team, the music executives from Sony and the editors were crammed into another booth,” Lord recalls. When everyone cracked up after he recited, “My bad, everybody! There was somewhere to run,” Miller says they knew “that was the winner.”
Now his Spidersona — and his voice — actually appear in the film as Metro Spider-Man, but Nimrod wanted to ensure that fans would see him off the silver screen, too. “We made these cool cutouts of his character and were hanging them from light poles, and there were decals on the sidewalks and walls,” she says. “People were fully stealing these cutouts and tagging me on social like, ‘I got my Metro Spider-Man hanging in my room!’ That’s when I was like, ‘OK, now this is fire.’ ”
Amiri sweater, jacket, pants, and shoes.
Sami Drasin
Metro Boomin Presents Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse reached No. 1 on both the Soundtracks and Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums charts — matching, and outperforming, respectively, the performance of the first Spider-Verse soundtrack, which also received a Grammy nomination for best compilation soundtrack for visual media. Ramsey hopes Metro’s Spider-Verse contribution can score the same distinction, and given the success of Heroes & Villains and “Creepin,’ ” next year could well be Metro’s long-awaited Grammy breakthrough. Incredibly, he has been nominated only once, and not for a project one would have expected him to have worked on: He co-produced Coldplay’s “Let Somebody Go” with Selena Gomez, from the band’s Music of the Spheres, an album of the year nominee. “[Frontman Chris Martin is] a good friend of mine. Sometimes we work on ideas; sometimes we just go walk outside,” Metro explains casually.
But with so much music to make, industry accolades are far from his mind. He’s currently wrapping up his long-awaited joint album with Future and still working on his project with J.I.D that the two teased earlier this year. Metro is also working on A$AP Rocky’s highly anticipated album, Don’t Be Dumb, and is one of a few trusted producers working on The Weeknd’s final album.
Nonetheless, there are a few other artists he dreams of collaborating with in the future. “I still really want to do something with Justin Timberlake,” he says. “I need to work with Miguel. I still haven’t worked with Jay-Z.”
But while Metro will always make time for the music, he plans to spend the next decade focused more on his businesses. Since he launched Boominati, “a lot of the business was focused on Metro and our producers that we work with: Chris XZ, Doughboy and David x Eli,” Samedi says. Now Metro is transferring his artist discovery and development skills to the executive side so he can start signing artists. And, he teases, he has already started his own production company that will allow him “to do stuff for screen.”
“The amount of grind and effort I put in my 20s into the music, I’mma put into the business aspect through these 30s,” he says. “I watched my music seeds grow from 20 to 30. I can watch the rest of these grow from 30 to 40.”
This story will appear in the Oct. 7, 2023, issue of Billboard.
Shakira walks into a luxurious upstairs suite at Miami Beach’s Versace mansion wearing high-waisted jeans, a loose T-shirt and a baseball cap pushed low over her forehead, her hair pulled back in a tangle of dirty-blonde braids. Far from cameras, her face is practically devoid of makeup save for mascara, and her eyes are wide over prominent cheekbones. Clear-skinned, barely over 5 feet tall in her sneakers, she looks young and almost fragile — a far cry from the powerful, wrathful woman she has played in her recent, hugely successful songs and music videos.
“I’m still in a reflective period,” she says pensively. “I’m still exorcising some demons. The last I have left,” she adds with a hearty laugh.
One of the most recognizable and celebrated stars on the planet, Shakira is also notoriously meticulous, a perfectionist known for leaving little to chance. But in the past 14 months, the 46-year-old has thrown convention, expectations and her own personal brand of allure-driven celebrity to the wind following her infamous split from Spanish soccer star Gerard Piqué, her partner of over a decade and the father of her two children, Milán, 10, and Sasha, 8. Covered ruthlessly by Spanish tabloids, the separation amid allegations of infidelity on Piqué’s part was immortalized when Shakira recorded “Bzrp Music Sessions, Vol. 53” with Argentine DJ Bizarrap, an incendiary track in which she made a proclamation that became a global feminist mantra: “Women don’t cry; we make money.” The song hit No. 2 on the Billboard Global 200.
But lost amid the tabloid coverage, the four Guinness World Records that “Sessions” set and multiple Billboard milestones (including becoming the first female vocalist to debut in the top 10 of the Billboard Hot 100 with a Spanish-language track) was the fact that between motherhood and marital bliss in Barcelona, it had been nearly a decade since Shakira had achieved anywhere near the success she has had in the past year; her last No. 1 on the Hot Latin Songs chart was “Chantaje,” with Maluma, back in 2016.
This year, she has already landed two No. 1s on the ranking: “Sessions” and “TQG,” with Karol G. (Both also reached the Hot 100’s top 10, and “TQG” topped the Billboard Global 200.) And in the past 12 months, she has placed six hits on the chart, all of them alluding to her separation and the range of emotions it has generated, from intense rage to deep sorrow to faint hope.
However torturous the process of setting those emotions to music has been, the result is that the now-single mother of two is once again one of the world’s hottest artists in any language, with 2024 plans for a new album and a global tour, respectively her first since 2017’s El Dorado and its corresponding 2018 trek.
The irony of the most tumultuous period of her personal life fueling a mid-career renaissance isn’t lost on Shakira.
“I feel like a cat with more than nine lives; whenever I think I can’t get any better, I suddenly get a second wind,” she says. “I’ve gone through several stages: denial, anger, pain, frustration, anger again, pain again. Now I’m in a survival stage. Like, just get your head above water. And it’s a reflection stage. And a stage of working very hard and when I have time with my children, really spend it with them.”
Iris van Herpen dress and headpiece.
Ruven Afanador
Shakira has always been remarkably eloquent, both in her native Spanish and in the English she learned as an adult when she crossed over into mainstream pop. In conversation, she bounces between languages almost reflexively as she searches for just the right word, bilingually expressing a wicked, sometimes self-deprecating sense of humor — and a sincerity that’s startling for such a scrutinized artist.
At the Versace mansion, she settles cross-legged into a big, blue armchair. She asks for black coffee; it has been a long night at the studio, followed by an early morning getting the kids ready for school. She has a craving for chocolates, and soon, a tray is delivered loaded with a variety of bars and bonbons. She goes for the latter and eats one with relish, then another. She chats freely about children, life and loss, laughing often and pausing to take a call from Sasha, who is in his first week of school after the summer break and at a friend’s house.
“My love, remember to pick up your plate, wash your hands and say thank you after eating,” Shakira reminds him. She sounds like a regular mom — highlighting the earthiness that has won the oft-barefoot performer so many fans.
“Attaining success is of course complicated, but far more complex is maintaining it through time. Shakira has demonstrated in a thousand ways that she belongs to this very select group. Every time she releases a song or an album, her shadow is again gigantic,” says Sony Music Latin Iberia chairman/CEO Afo Verde, a confidante who has worked very closely with Shakira through the years, particularly since May, when the Colombian star relocated from Barcelona to Miami.
Since then, she has been spending most days at 5020, Sony’s state-of-the-art recording studios and rehearsal space in Miami, working with a steady flow of creatives that includes top producer-songwriter Edgar Barrera, who has collaborated with Maluma, Peso Pluma and Grupo Frontera, among others.
“Of all the artists I’ve worked with, she’s the most perfectionist, the most meticulous,” says Barrera, who worked on several songs with her, including “Clandestino,” with Maluma. “She knows exactly what she wants and what she doesn’t want. She’ll request things like a change of frequency in a kick. After working with her, I understand why she’s where she’s at and why she has been at No. 1 so many times.”
Iris van Herpen headpiece.
Ruven Afanador
For Verde, Shakira’s proximity has helped him support her creative process in a way that has hugely accelerated her output. “She’s one of those few cases in the world who, despite the passage of time, continues to work with the same excitement, quality, respect and attention to detail as she did in the beginning. She works with whoever makes sense for her artistic pursuit. She doesn’t care if they’re established or up and coming. For her, art comes first.”
Case in point: Fuerza Regida, the Southern California Mexican quintet that has scored five Hot 100 entries in the past year with its brash, homegrown take on norteño music but remains far from a household name. When Shakira’s team reached out to lead singer JOP in July to ask if he was interested in collaborating on the recently released “El Jefe” with her, the 26-year-old got on a flight to Miami the next day without having heard a note of the proposed track.
“It’s Shakira! Do you understand what I mean?” JOP says. “There isn’t anything else to say. I grew up listening to Shakira, and after all the challenges to reach where I am now, to collaborate with one of the greatest artists in the world… It’s crazy! It had me mind-blowed.”
In May, Billboard honored Shakira as its first ever Latin Woman of the Year; in July, Premios Juventud gave her its Agent of Change Award; and on Sept. 12, she received the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award at the MTV Video Music Awards, where she also performed a dazzling, 10-minute medley of hits.
Still, she admits, for the past seven years, she has been sidetracked by family matters and life in Barcelona, far from music industry action. That changed a little over a year ago, when she split with Piqué and began cathartically pouring her heart into her songs. Several milestones followed in quick succession. “Te Felicito,” with Rauw Alejandro, reached No. 10 on Hot Latin Songs and No. 67 on the Hot 100 in May and June of 2022, respectively; in November, “Monotonía,” with Ozuna (its video shows Shakira’s heart literally torn from her body and squished by a shoe on the sidewalk), climbed to No. 3 on Hot Latin Songs; and earlier this year, “Sessions” and “TQG” surged in popularity.
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Suddenly, Shakira was no longer a distant celebrity, but one of the most streamed stars on the planet. (At press time, she was Spotify’s most streamed Latin woman artist ever.)
Simultaneously, Shakira — who essentially pioneered the concept of global touring in the Latin realm and made history when she co-headlined the 2020 Super Bowl halftime show with Jennifer Lopez — revived conversations about hitting the road. While details remain under wraps, her upcoming tour, says WME music partner Keith Sarkisian, will include arena and stadium shows in nearly two dozen countries across Latin America, North America, the United Kingdom, Europe and the Middle East.
“Shakira has established herself as a remarkable and influential artist over the past 20-plus years,” says Live Nation Entertainment CEO/president Michael Rapino, whose relationship with the singer dates back to her 2007 Oral Fixation tour. “She has grown a massive global fan base through her captivating performances and unique blend of pop, rock, Latin and world influences. We can’t wait to see her on stages around the world for her biggest tour yet.”
Shakira agrees. “I think this will be the tour of my life. I’m very excited. Just think, I had my foot on the brakes. Now I’m pressing on the accelerator — hard.”
First order of the day: Are the kids happy in school?
They’re doing very well. They love it. In Barcelona, they carried the weight of being “the children of…,” and the media situation was hard on them. We had paparazzi at our doorstep every single day. Here, they’re normal children who enjoy normalcy, which is what school should be: a safe haven where they can be themselves. And because they’re sociable and pretty open, it was easy for them to adapt.
Have you adapted?
I’m still in the process! (Laughs.) I’ve lost a bit of my mental plasticity with time. The last time I lived here, I was 21 or so. Miami has changed. There wasn’t as much traffic before.
Do you still enjoy driving?
Yes. I still drive myself. I drive a total soccer mom car: a Toyota Sienna. Not sexy at all. There are no sexy cars in my house. The only sexy thing in my house is me. (Laughs.)
I’ve seen you going out a lot. I didn’t know you were such a social butterfly.
Me either! I didn’t know it because I really was lazy about going out [before]. My favorite outfit is my PJs. But my kids are big Miami Heat fans. Milán is a fan of all sports. So I have to take him to all the baseball games, all the basketball games, all the hockey games. Never in my life have I gone to so many sporting events. And then, when they’re with their dad, I work from morning to night, and then I have a margarita with my friends.
Did your lifestyle change dramatically over the last year?
Dramatically. Aside from the fact that it’s been a drama, the time I have with my children, [I] really spend it with them. For example, this summer, the time they spent with me, I devoted entirely to them. I didn’t work, and they didn’t go to camp. They went to Camp Shakira. If I can only have them half the time, I’m going to make the most out of my half.
Versace dress and gloves, Giuseppe Zanotti boots.
Ruven Afanador
How does this affect your music?
Now that I spent a week in Los Angeles, for example, I put in everything: studio, work, meetings, work, work, work, work until late, then meet up with my girlfriends that I haven’t seen in a while and go out at night like in the old days. (Laughs.) I put everything, leisure and pleasure, in the same week but very compacted because then I have to come back and be a mom again, the head of the household, and then I can’t do anything because I have the children with me all the time. As far as the music, it still comes from a very reflective place.
But the upside to all you’ve been through seems to be that you’ve produced some of your most successful music in years. Would you agree?
Well, the thing is, I was dedicated to him. To the family, to him. It was very difficult for me to attend to my professional career while in Barcelona. It was complicated logistically to get a collaborator there. I had to wait for agendas to coincide or for someone to deign to come. I couldn’t leave my children and just go somewhere to make music outside my house. It was hard to maintain the rhythm. Sometimes I had ideas I couldn’t lock down. Right now, I have an idea and I can immediately collaborate with whomever I want to. Something inescapable about Miami, Los Angeles, the U.S. in general is I have the logistical and technical support, the resources, the tools, the people. Living in Spain, all that was on hold.
I hadn’t thought about it that way…
That’s why my career was a third priority. The last time I released an album was six years ago. Now I can release music at a faster clip, although sometimes I think being a single mom and the rhythm of a pop star aren’t compatible. I have to put my kids to bed, go to the recording studio; everything is uphill. When you don’t have a husband who can stay home with the kids, it’s constant juggling because I like to be a present mom and I need to be there every moment with my children: take them to school, have breakfast with them, take them to play dates. And aside from that, I have to make money.
It’s so complicated to be a working mom — we’re taught we can do everything, but something always suffers. What do you think?
I haven’t been to the gym in a year. Well, I’ve gone a couple of times. I don’t know how long it’s been since I got a massage. I have torticollis! Something’s got to give. My neck. My traps. That’s what gives. It’s hard to do everything.
Before all this happened, were you concerned about releasing new music, or were you happy in your Barcelona state of mind?
My priority was my home, my family. I believed in “till death do us part.” I believed that dream, and I had that dream for myself, for my children. My parents have been together, I don’t know, 50 years, and they love each other like the first day, with a love that’s unique and unrepeatable. So I know it’s possible. My mom doesn’t leave my [sick] father’s side. They still kiss on the mouth. And it has always been my example. It’s what I wanted for myself and my children, but it didn’t happen. If life gives you lemons, you have to make lemonade. That’s what I’m doing: making lemonade.
Gaurav Gupta dress.
Ruven Afanador
Tell me about your upcoming singles. You’ve been collaborating with all Latin artists lately. Is that a calculated decision?
It has all been very organic. I’m coming out with something in September and maybe in November. The new single is a collab with Fuerza Regida. It’s a Mexican ska, and it sounds very fresh, very original, very punk in a way. It has tons of energy. The song is called “El Jefe” [“The Boss”], and it’s about abuse of power. We had the song and thought, “Oy, who could we get for this?,” and we thought of Fuerza Regida. JOP’s voice is very special. We wrote him, and he flew in the following day from Los Angeles and we recorded it in three days.
[Regarding “TQG” with Karol G], Karol is going through a good moment, plus we were both going through [public breakups] that have a common denominator. That inspired the song, which we both worked on. It was a project I believed in from the onset, and that’s why I invested so much time in it.
This was a highly anticipated and very successful collaboration. Would you say you devoted more time and resources to “TQG” than other recent singles?
Well, the Ozuna video [for “Monotonía”] was also my idea. Most videos I end up co-directing, co-writing, even designing the objects with the art department. I really get involved all the way because I feel the audiovisual world [also] expresses a very oneiric side and connects with the song from the subconscious. It allows the subconscious to speak. When I’m making a video, I close my eyes and dream.
With that in mind, why have a siren in your new music video for “Copa Vacía” with Manuel Turizo?
Because the siren is a symbol that represents that part of me that was abducted and taken from a world where she belongs to a world where she doesn’t belong. A world she had to make enormous sacrifice to be in. A world where perhaps she lacked oxygen. But in the end, she returns to the sea because it’s her destiny, just like I returned to Miami. (Laughs.) This siren was first abducted and then, for love, is next to this man, captive and locked up in a way. Sacrificing her own well-being and what is natural for her for love. And then she ends up thrown in the trash and surrounded by rats.
That’s intense.
Right? And I don’t know if you knew this, but there are real rats around me in the video. Because believe me, I’m still surrounded by rats. But every time less and less. That has been a big part of what I’ve been doing this past year: cleaning the house, exterminating the rats.
But your music returned. That’s the silver lining.
There’s always a silver lining. Life always manages to compensate somehow. In one year, I lost what I loved most, the person I most trusted, my best friend: my father. He has lost many of his neurological functions as a result of the accident he had in Barcelona [a fall in June 2022]. And he went to Barcelona precisely to console me, to support me at the time of my separation. I thought, “How can so many things happen to me in a year?” But that’s life.
From there, my music has also taken new flight, and I suppose that’s the way life compensates. You subtract on one end and add on the other. It’s pure mathematics. In my ninth life, I’ll tell you what the total is. Sometimes I think happiness isn’t for everyone. Happiness is a luxury, a commodity. Some people are born to be happy, and some people are born to do things, serve the community. I don’t know.
Are you happy now?
It’s a very short question for a very long answer. I don’t think everyone has access to happiness. It’s reserved for a very select number of people, and I can’t say I’m part of the club at this moment. There are moments of happiness, distraction, moments of reflection. There are also still moments of nostalgia, and my music right now feeds off that cocktail.
Iris van Herpen headpiece.
Ruven Afanador
You obviously didn’t plan any of this. You weren’t looking for a No. 1, but for a creative outlet, correct?
Exactly. I was trying to work out and understand my emotions in search of a catharsis.
In 2021, you sold the music publishing rights to your catalog of 145 songs at the time to Hipgnosis. Why?
I’m very friendly with Merck [Mercuriadis]. He’s a musicology expert who knows my catalog intimately from the very first song I wrote when I was 8 years old. I know my compositions are in the best hands with him as the custodian for them, and I’m very happy. They’re doing a really good job. If you sell your catalog, you want to know it’s to someone who values your music and knows about music.
Are you at all worried about artificial intelligence?
I was shown how I sound with AI. But I don’t think they got it right yet. I don’t hear myself there. The letter E, for example, sounds like my voice, but not the other four vowels. I think it’s going to be hard for AI to imitate me. And I have bigger fish to fry right now. My biggest concern is figuring out how Milán can practice American football, soccer and baseball in the same week.
I know you’re planning to tour next year, and I saw photos of you at Beyoncé’s tour. It looked like you were having fun.
Oh, no. I was working! (Laughs.) I definitely can’t tour with as many trucks as Beyoncé, but I was taking notes.
Something I’ve always loved about your tours is that they are pretty much all you. That you don’t need…
So much stuff? In a way, I wanted to prove to myself that I could support the entire weight of a show. In fact, many of my tours had no dancers and a limited production. In the [2002-03] Tour of the Mongoose, which was one of my most successful tours, with the biggest production, I traveled with that serpent that rose at the beginning of the show, remember? That serpent cost $1 million and, transporting the serpent, several million more. When the tour ended, my manager asked for his commission, and I said, “Aha, and how much did I make from the tour?” He said, “No, you lost $6 million. Didn’t you want to travel with that cobra?” You live and learn.
Putting a tour together is fun, but it’s a great effort and you have to put everything on the balance and decide what the fans really want to hear, what songs you want to hear and how much production you want. In the end, the more production you have, the higher the ticket price. I want the tickets to be affordable. But to me, the most important thing is the repertoire. That’s why I think [my next tour] will be the tour of a lifetime, because I have so many songs.
Versace dress and gloves, Giuseppe Zanotti boots.
Ruven Afanador
Do you think that in five years, when you look back, you’ll see this moment in a more positive light?
Like a blessing in disguise? I think that nothing can compensate for the pain of destroying a family. Of course, I have to keep going for my children’s sake; that’s my greatest motivation. But my biggest dream, more than collecting platinum albums and Grammys, was to raise my sons with their father. Overcome obstacles and grow old together. I know I’m not getting that now.
What did you learn about yourself in this process that surprised you?
My strength. I thought I was much weaker. I used to crumble before the stupidest problems. I’d create a drama because I chipped my tooth or that kind of stuff. But maturing, going through truly difficult things, gives you a sense of perspective and empathy. You learn how to value the good moments and how not to amplify the bad ones.
Before, when I didn’t have real problems, I was a true drama queen. I remember one time, Gerard bought me a diamond ring because I chipped a tooth on The Voice and I was crying so much. I was inconsolable. I was also pregnant, so I was highly hormonal. Now I chip a tooth, and it doesn’t go beyond being a little inconvenience that you fix with a visit to the dentist. I wouldn’t cry over it for two days in a row like I used to back in the day when I used to be happy.
At a time when there seems to be no taboos left in Latin music in terms of content and image, do you think a lot about what you want to say or portray in your music?
I’ve always been very conscious of the fact that what a public person expresses or says has an echo and an impact over others. And I am convinced that we have to serve the community through our work and help the world become a better place. As a woman, I feel I have a responsibility. I also think music is a tool, a platform for validation as a woman and to validate my own ideas, but there isn’t a calculated intent behind what I do. But I do understand the responsibility that comes with what I have and with being a public person and being able to do music for such a long time and reach several generations. I know little girls see me, go to my concerts, listen to my music. That’s always in the back of my head.
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“Bzrp Music Sessions, Vol. 53” generated a lot of controversy. People were divided over whether you should have spoken out. Was that a difficult decision?
When I did that session, people on my team were saying, “Please change this. Don’t even think about coming out with those lyrics.” And I said, “Why not?” I’m not a diplomat in the United Nations. I’m an artist, and I have the right to work on my emotions through my music. It’s my catharsis and my therapy, but it’s also the therapy of many people. I know I’m the voice of many people, and I’m not being pretentious, just realistic. I lend my voice to many women who maybe also wanted to say the same things I said and perhaps haven’t had the validation to do so. I think songs like the Bizarrap session or like the one I did with Karol have given many women strength, self-empowerment, self-confidence and also the backing to express and say what they need to say.
And without the need to be vulgar or graphic?
No, but going straight to the jugular. I don’t know how to go anywhere else.
Michelle Yeoh, who is 61 years old, won the Academy Award for best actress this year. In her speech, she said, “Ladies, don’t let anybody tell you you are ever past your prime.” Ours is a very ageist industry. What do you think of those words?
When the year started and I got that first No. 1, then the other, back-to-back, I thought, “This can’t be happening to me at 46 years old.” It was so exciting to break the mold or reinvent the paradigms, and also, because that’s how you change things. I feel I have more energy now than at many other times in my life. Now the studio is one of my happy places. In the past, it wasn’t so much like that. There were moments where I had a love/hate relationship. There was a bit of a fear factor in the studio, at the prospect of being before a blank canvas. But now, when I’m about to start a song, my feelings are more of anticipation. Maybe because I’m not such a control freak as I used to be?
Really?
I’ve let go a lot! I still control, but I’m not a freak. Who doesn’t like control in a way? You want to realize your vision. But I’ve let go a lot. If I were to chip my tooth now, I’d probably spill a tear or two, but I wouldn’t cry the whole day.
This story will appear in the Sept. 23, 2023, issue of Billboard.
Shakira walks into a luxurious upstairs suite at Miami Beach’s Versace mansion wearing high-waisted jeans, a loose T-shirt and a baseball cap pushed low over her forehead, her hair pulled back in a tangle of dirty-blonde braids. Far from cameras, her face is practically devoid of makeup save for mascara, and her eyes are wide […]
It’s fitting that on the same day that Hilary — Southern California’s first tropical storm in 84 years — rains her way out of Los Angeles, Sean “Diddy” Combs breezes into Billboard’s studio for a sit-down interview. He’s a fascinating whirlwind of activity from the moment he arrives in his ever-present shades: stopping first to huddle with the photographer about the lighting for the shoot, orchestrating the background setup for his video chat; then changing outfits to match his vibe just before the cameras roll. “It’s just not my vibration,” he declares at one point as the backdrop is being rearranged. “I’m in a high frequency right now.”
“High frequency” and “low frequency” are phrases that often crop up during this interview and a follow-up conversation a week later as Combs talks about returning to music with his first album in 13 years, The Love Album: Off the Grid, and explains his take on what fans have been missing from him.
“You’ve always got to bring something new and fresh,” he says. “I wouldn’t have come back after 13 years if I didn’t have something to say.”
And right now, Combs has got a lot to say. This year marks the 30th anniversary of Bad Boy Entertainment and the 10th anniversary of his REVOLT TV network, with its reimagined REVOLT World summit (featuring keynotes, panels and performances by Don Toliver, Mr. Eazi and more) slated for Sept. 22-24 in Atlanta. And with his sixth studio album that his own Love Records will deliver on Sept. 15 (“Diddy Day,” he calls it), he’s officially launching a creative renaissance, too.
The R&B album features Diddy rapping alongside a guest roster of 29 established and emerging stars, ranging from Mary J. Blige, H.E.R., Summer Walker, Jazmine Sullivan and Coco Jones to The-Dream, Justin Bieber, Ty Dolla $ign, Burna Boy, Kalan.FrFr and Love Records artist Jozzy. Comprising 22 tracks and two interludes, The Love Album: Off the Grid is dedicated to late producer Chucky Thompson, who was an original member of Bad Boy’s in-house production collective called the Hitmen. The Weeknd makes his final guest stint on the album’s next single, “Another One of Me,” with French Montana and 21 Savage. Another track, “Kim Porter,” with Diddy and Babyface featuring John Legend, pays tribute to Combs’ late former girlfriend and mother of three of his children.
“This isn’t just an R&B album; it’s an R&B movie [about love],” says Combs, who executive-produced and curated the project. “It’s probably one of the biggest collections of talent ever, all unified on one album. And I happen to be blessed to have The Weeknd’s last feature. The song talks about being unique, in a sense — telling your ex-girl that another one of me won’t come around.”
As an artist, Combs’ bona fides speak for themselves. Since his ’90s heyday, the triple Grammy winner has sold 8.1 million albums in the United States, according to Luminate, with five titles charting in the top 10 on the Billboard 200: No Way Out (No. 1, 1997), Forever (No. 2, 1999), The Saga Continues … (No. 2, 2001), Press Play (No. 1, 2006) and Last Train to Paris (No. 7, 2011). He has landed 38 career entries on the Billboard Hot 100, including 15 top 10s and five No. 1s: “Can’t Nobody Hold Me Down,” featuring Ma$e; “I’ll Be Missing You,” with Faith Evans and featuring 112; The Notorious B.I.G.’s “Mo Money Mo Problems,” featuring Puff Daddy & Ma$e; “Bump Bump Bump,” with B2K; and “Shake Ya Tailfeather,” with Nelly and Murphy Lee. Still, when his new album’s first single, “Gotta Move On,” with Bryson Tiller, peaked at No. 3 in 2022, it was his first top 10 on the R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay chart since “Last Night” featuring Keyshia Cole in 2007, which went to No. 7. (“Gotta” also topped Adult R&B Airplay for two weeks last November.)
Then in September, Combs rocked the industry with the surprise announcement that he was returning his publishing rights to the artists and songwriters who had helped build his Bad Boy Entertainment into a success — a move that came after detractors, most notably Ma$e, alleged that Combs had treated his artists unfairly over the years. Ma$e, Evans, The LOX, 112 and the estate of The Notorious B.I.G. are among the creatives who have already signed agreements to regain those rights.
During his interview with Billboard, Combs speaks about his push to close the wealth gap for Black people and promote diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives. On behalf of the latter cause, his Sean Combs Foundation recently donated $1 million to Jackson State University, a historically Black university. He also announced a $1 million investment fund in partnership with Earn Your Leisure founders Rashad Bilal and Troy Millings to provide a practical model for economic empowerment in Black communities. He notes as well that profits from the fund would support his three Capital Preparatory charter schools in New York and Connecticut.
Referencing Tulsa, Okla.’s iconic Black Wall Street — which was destroyed in a racially motivated massacre just over 100 years ago — Combs says, “I’m about empowering Black minds, Black ideas, Black businesses. That’s my focus. I used to be looking for the next Biggie. Now I’m looking for the next entrepreneur that I can help support through resources and knowledge. My purpose has leveled up.”
Dina Sahim, who has been co-managing Combs at SALXCO alongside company chief Wassim “Sal” Slaiby since 2021, says there’s a reason why her client has helped foster the careers of so many other stars: “He doesn’t take days off. Every minute of every single day is spent doing something that contributes to his growth as a person, as a businessman and to the people around him. He didn’t get to where he is by mistake. And he lives to perpetuate wealth and inspiration. He wants everybody to eat like he’s eating; wants to teach everyone to take what they have, build on it and create an empire.”
But make no mistake: Combs is still all about having fun as he jubilantly navigates his return to music’s center stage. “I’m a 26-year-old in a 53-year-old body,” the MTV Video Music Awards’ (VMAs) newly minted Global Icon Award honoree says with a laugh. “There are still a lot of things I want to do on my Diddy list. So yeah, I’m back. Just in my bag and having fun. Whenever it feels like work, I’ll leave.”
Combs photographed on August 21, 2023 in Los Angeles.
Austin Hargrave
First things first: What prompted you to return the publishing rights to the Bad Boy artists and writers?
I decided to reassign publishing rights to the whole catalog in May or June 2021. The news is just now coming out because it took time to finalize everything. But this was during the time that I was holding the Grammys to task. I was also getting major offers for the catalog during the [acquisition] frenzy back then. When I was looking at the catalog and everything, I was put in a position where I felt like I had to look in the mirror. I had to make sure that what I was standing for was my total truth. We live in a time where things are constantly evolving. And it was about reform for me. It was me looking at ways I could reform things as a person that’s been asking for change. It was just the right and obvious thing to do; something I’m proud I did. As a businessman, there comes a time when you have to pick purpose over profit. I’m glad that I’ve seen both sides. As a businessman, I’ve evolved and was blessed to be in a position to give the publishing back.
Ma$e was very vocal about reclaiming his publishing rights. Have the two of you reconciled?
Everything’s cool and good now. You know, we’re brothers and brothers fight. I love him and that’s it.
The other big recent news is the release of your long-promised ode to R&B, The Love Album: Off the Grid. Why a return to recording at this point in your career?
It’s been 13 years since Last Train to Paris. When it came out, it kind of broke my heart because people didn’t understand it right away. It was a bit before its time, and I know I was in my ego.
What didn’t they understand?
I had to compromise the uncut Blackness and soul of what I was trying to do, like on the song “Coming Home.” I have the talent as a producer, you know, to make a No. 1 record. But that’s very dangerous because sometimes that record may not be authentic or your intentions aren’t in the right place. My intentions were to get another No. 1 record instead of keeping the album uncut and soulful.
As time went on, people were able to connect with the album, and it’s become a cult classic. But for a couple of years after that, I didn’t know what to do. I wasn’t hearing the sounds. Then I started just dealing with life and had to go through a healing journey. When I came out of that, I was like, “What do I want to do that makes me happy?” And it was, “I need to get back to music.” So I immediately said, “I’m going to start a new label called Love Records, and I’m going to focus on R&B and bring back what it’s missing: that soul, that love, that unapologetic Blackness, that expression of vulnerability and on a different, higher frequency.”
The album sounds very autobiographical. Was that also one of your intentions this time around?
Yes. This time I decided, “I’m going to just bare my soul and give people my truth.” So this is my love story through all of my different relationships. It’s about going away for 48 hours with a young lady, turning the phones off, locking in and connecting. We should all go off the grid with our significant other, whoever it is you love, and get to know each other better. And I had the musical vision for my story. I was like, “First, I’m going to make some R&B music for dancing to make her feel comfortable, then some slow love- and baby-making music for the strokers, then some baby-don’t-leave-me music.” And I have some of the best — and my favorite — voices in R&B telling my love story. What I’m bringing back to the game is that Puffy sound, not following any trends or algorithms. I’m not knocking anything that’s out there, but a lot of things are just so toxic.
Combs photographed on August 21, 2023 in Los Angeles.
Austin Hargrave
Why has R&B become such an important crusade for you?
My first love is R&B. The first record that I produced was the remix of “Come and Talk to Me” by Jodeci. And from there going on to Mary J. Blige and, you know, to being the king of hip-hop soul.
When I was younger, R&B saved my life. I thought I was going to be a football player. Then I got hurt on my last day of camp as a senior. My heart was broken; I didn’t have a B plan. And that music really saved my life. Dancing in the clubs in New York, getting the chance to be picked up as a background dancer and seeing the industry that I fell in love with saved me. Then as life goes on, you get hit with so many things: losing the mother of my children, losing my girlfriend; just being hurt, down and lost. R&B helped me find myself and get back on my feet again. So I can’t wait for people to hear how I’ve come full circle.
In fact, I’ve come full circle on so many things. It’s rare, having a career of 30 years and still having the ability to make relevant music without selling out or trying to be on somebody else’s wave. I’m here to unify us, the whole R&B community. I returned to my roots of production; those sensibilities like when I was just starting out at 23. As a student of the game, I’m working with all the new, younger producers. We have a nice new crew of Hitmen that has been assembled to take this to the next level. I’m learning from them and their fresh energy, and they’re learning from me. That’s one of the things that I’m always going to be: a platform. I went from being on the stage to becoming the stage. So launching some new artists on the album was also a definite priority.
Why did you say last year that R&B is dead?
When I said, “R&B is dead,” I wanted to wake up the R&B universe and shed some light on it. My intention was to do exactly what’s happened. We’re now in this R&B renaissance. After leaving the game for so long and coming back, I realized there was a lack of resources, a lack of support from radio, a lack of belief. When I said [that], it wasn’t being said in a negative way. It was also part of unifying us in getting back to our Blackness, getting off that computer and getting back into feeling. If you ain’t got no feeling, you dead. So I’m here to bring back that feeling.
There are a lot of artists out there, of course, pushing the envelope with different styles of R&B. And I’m seeing people step their game up. This renaissance has such incredible artists from Summer Walker and SZA to The Weeknd and Brent Faiyaz … so much richness. But I believe we have to make some noise to be heard more and get the same resources to be able to compete. This genre deserves to be put in a position to win. R&B and hip-hop are not the same.
I’m glad to hear you say that because many people in the industry keep putting R&B under the hip-hop banner.
I’ve had conversations with some of the people in power, and almost all the people in power are not from the R&B community or the culture. That’s when you get the lack of understanding and resources. To them, it just sounds like the same thing. So I’m in a season of total independence. I had an experience with Motown where it was like, “I’ve come too far to ask somebody that isn’t where I’m from about cultural and artistic things. If I’m going to bet on anybody, I’m going to bet on the people I believe in.” So I decided to go independent with Love Records and Bad Boy. I decided to come back into the game with bolder ideas of ownership, distribution and future manufacturing because those are the things that we as a people are cut out of.
Since #TheShowMustBePaused, has the music industry overall made any substantial progress in terms of diversity, equity and inclusion?
We have some representation … Shout out and all due respect to everybody that’s in power. But [for most people], there’s still somebody over them, a white man that they have to get permission from to do something. And it’s always been the same, no matter what the industry. When you’re independent, you don’t have to ask that permission. You can do what you want to do. It’s time for change. And the only way you get change is you’ve got to make the change — and not just change progress. It’s all a bunch of bulls–t. Diversity isn’t about inclusion; diversity is about sharing power. And nothing has changed. It’s gotten worse.
What about the changes the Recording Academy has made since you put the organization on notice in 2020 for the Grammys never respecting Black music “to the point that it should be”?
They went right to work immediately. There’s a lot of work to be done, but radical steps have been made. And that’s really what I’m on: radical change. Not making tiny steps. Me making those statements made them look at themselves, made me look at myself and made the whole industry have to look at itself and our [collective] responsibility toward evolving through diversity, through economics and through this human race where everybody just wants to be better. But it wasn’t just me; there were a bunch of us [Black executives] that stepped up behind the scenes as a collective in pushing for change. And the Academy really responded in a responsible way. So now it’s also up to artists to understand how to get in there and really utilize the academy for their benefit.
Speaking of change, you signed with SALXCO for management. What was behind that decision?
Finding the right manager is hard. Someone that’s going to be kind of obsessed about every move you have going on as much as you would be. That’s what you hope for: to find someone with that kind of talent, who can actually tell you something worthwhile and understands a bigger picture. For example, one of the big decisions we’ve made is that my first concert will be in Europe, not in America, as we make this a global release. There were a lot of things that affected the whole energy behind how this project is being rolled out and positioned. So I respect Sal’s opinion and vision. And he and Dina make it enjoyable.
Combs photographed on August 21, 2023 in Los Angeles.
Austin Hargrave
In addition to celebrating your 30th anniversary in music, REVOLT is marking its 10th birthday. What’s your vision for the network moving forward?
To make it not just the biggest Black-owned network but the biggest media company that I can. I’m not pigeonholing myself. Again, nobody’s going to give us power, and they’re not going to share it with us. That’s why 10 years ago, I named my network REVOLT, because we have to take our quality of life back. There’s so much value and information. And when the Black media doesn’t have an outlet that’s controlled by somebody of color, then it’s not truly a Black free press. REVOLT is the only foundation right now that’s going in that direction. But it takes time. I own 65% of REVOLT, so we could change the narrative. I’m investing in the Black future with REVOLT. It’s not a hustle, not a money play. Everything I do is to make sure that I do my best to break down the barriers. Media is one of the most important and powerful parts of freedom.
As far as our business strategy, we’re in acquisition mode to really build a Black-owned media conglomerate. That’s why we were looking at BET and at a couple of other businesses. BET is definitely the mecca, the originator of Black media, and still is. So just the thought of unifying … We’re not going to be able to reach our highest level of success in the media world, like a Rupert Murdoch, if we don’t unify. Like me, Tyler Perry and Byron Allen. We have a responsibility because it’s like 15 of us getting money, but 10 billion people in the world. We need to pool our resources, everybody from LeBron James and Issa Rae to Tracee Ellis Ross to Jada Pinkett [Smith] and Queen Latifah. That’s what I’m pushing for: unity in a disruptive way that’s never been done before. Having such a media platform is one of the most powerful tools in changing our trajectory.
Given your busy September with the VMAs, the album rollout and the REVOLT World summit, is the long-awaited Verzuz battle between you and Jermaine Dupri still on the table for this month?
The only Verzuz I want to have right now is Puff Daddy versus Diddy. The only person I’m in competition with is myself. (Smiles.) But the battle with Jermaine isn’t off the table. We’re still trying to work it out, and I definitely look forward to that.
You entered Forbes’ billionaire rappers circle last year. Who’s on their way from hip-hop’s next generation?
Nipsey Hussle, to me, was that young Puff version. But one person that I can say right now is Travis Scott. I can relate to how he’s diversifying his portfolio and really understanding how to take it to the next level. I also think Yung Miami [aka Caresha Brownlee] from the City Girls. She reminds me of Oprah with the endless possibilities that she has as far as her clothing line, television shows, performances, live podcasts. I really respect both of their hustles and see them being able to break through.
Despite this being the 50th-anniversary year of hip-hop, music pundits have written stories about hip-hop’s lack of top-charting singles and albums in 2023. What’s your take on the genre’s evolution into 2024?
Right now, people are looking for something fresh. Everything’s been so monotonous and low frequency with everybody sounding so much like each other. However, I think you’re going to see a balance. You’re still going to have your ratchet stuff, you’re still going to have the turn-up. But people are going to come up with new styles. It’s time. The beauty of it is that you can make your own type of music and cultivate your own community. When you have 8 billion people in the world, you can do all right if you have 2 million in your fan base. I just see hip-hop constantly evolving and constantly melding with different types of music. There’s Afro beats melding with trap melding with what’s going on in London melding with what’s going on in dance music. Everything’s just coming together.
The smile on your face as you say all this … it’s like maybe seeing the younger Sean during the Uptown days.
Definitely. I’ve gotten a chance to look at everything with new, fresh eyes. I learned that from my baby … You know, I just had a baby. And the baby looks around at everything. So I started to look around, hearing things and being more open-minded. The future of hip-hop, I think, is really looking up, especially with AI coming in. I think it’s going to have an impact; that it will be another category of music. But also looking at older hip-hop and R&B artists selling out arenas … it’s a wealthy season right now for music in general.
As you reflect on your career thus far, how do you view your legacy as an elder statesman of hip-hop alongside Dr. Dre and Jay-Z?
We’re all different people at different stages in our lives, you know what I’m saying? But there’s only one Diddy. There’s only one Jay-Z. There’s only one Dr. Dre. We’re all good where we’re at, and we’re in our purpose. I’m living my purpose as far as coming in and making people feel something. Breaking down barriers and showing people how to hustle, make money, make a career and living — and be successful.
Back in January 2020, singer-songwriter Ryan Tedder was jogging through the flats of West Hollywood while talking to his friend and investment partner Abe Burns when they struck upon an idea.
“What if you could take tranches of your favorite songs and securitize them, go through the [U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC)], invest in your favorite songs and trade them on the public market?” he recalls telling Burns. “Why can’t fans do this?”
The OneRepublic frontman and prolific songwriter behind megahits like Beyoncé’s “Halo,” Adele’s “Rumour Has It” and Leona Lewis’ “Bleeding Love” is less well known for his investing acumen. But over the last decade or so, Tedder has proved to be a successful venture capital and commercial real estate investor who owns stakes in lucrative properties like the sites of a 24-hour Walgreens on the Las Vegas strip and American Airlines’ call center headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas. “That’s all well and good,” Tedder says, but to be able to share in some of the greatest pop songs — that he didn’t write himself? That would be thrilling.
Music lovers like Tedder will soon be able to do just that. Beginning Sept. 12, music fans and everyday investors can reserve stakes in the royalty streams of more than 100 songs — written by Tedder; Diplo and the trio he co-founded, Major Lazer; and rock band American Authors — through a new music investing platform, JKBX (pronounced “jukebox”). This initial batch includes songs performed by Beyoncé, Adele, Taylor Swift, Colbie Caillat and Ed Sheeran and features by Justin Bieber, Travis Scott, Ellie Goulding, Jonas Brothers, MØ and Trippie Redd.
Like dividend-paying stocks, royalty shares acquired on JKBX’s platform will give investors the right to a slice of the income a specific song generates. The types of royalty streams offered — for example, publishing, recording and whether there are geographic boundaries attached — will vary by song and be disclosed in each offering.
Founded by Sam Hendel and John Chapman of venture capital and private equity firm Dundee Partners, JKBX aims to become the Fidelity of music investment — a platform where fans can buy, trade and sell royalty shares of songs with strong, sustained records of income. The company says all of the tracks offered will have been released over 18 months ago, with most of them older than 10 years. They include Major Lazer’s perennially streamed hit “Lean On” (it has over 1.8 billion streams on Spotify) and American Authors’ “Best Day of My Life,” a synch sensation that has been used in ads for Best Western Hotels, Ford and Jeep.
Early adopters won’t initially have to put any money down, and the reservations will be nonbinding while JKBX awaits the final approval from the SEC to make public offerings available to investors. In February, the company announced that it had partnered with GTS Securities, one of the largest Designated Market Makers on the New York Stock Exchange, to mitigate volatility and promote liquidity and competition on a secondary trading market for JKBX’s royalty shares.
JKBX has yet to choose a broker dealer or alternative trading system — it is in talks with several — and until that happens, there is no secondary market where investors can sell or trade their royalty shares.
The company says it will not set a royalty share’s initial price or determine how many shares will be made available; a separate issuer will do that. The type of Regulation A offering JKBX is attempting to provide can sell up to $75 million worth of shares in a 12-month period, which it expects to do.
Because it’s still seeking SEC qualification for its first batch of offerings, JKBX was careful to state in interviews with Billboard that it’s not offering or soliciting investors in securities and that any future offerings will provide investors with all the normal disclosures, including how much revenue a song has generated over the past three years and ongoing audited financials.
Tedder and other creators with songs on the platform won’t be directly involved in the investment process — at least for now. JKBX’s deals are with labels, music publishers and catalog funds that own the copyrights. But the company says writers with songs on the platform will get a cut of trades if they are part of its Creator Program, which includes a pool of money set aside for them.
Ryan Tedder of OneRepublic performs onstage during the Lollapalooza Paris Festival – Day Three on July 23, 2023 in Paris, France.
Sadaka Edmond/SIPA/AP Images
If JKBX clears these hurdles and its business strategy takes flight, rights holders, artists, JKBX and individual investors stand to profit from a new, potentially transformative income stream generated by the masses betting on the continued earning power of songs — an asset class previously restricted to institutional investors, private equity and music publishers. Hendel estimates the total addressable market for JKBX could reach billions of dollars based on the music industry’s growth trajectory and the 60 million individual investment accounts that Americans hold.
In the meantime, sources say the company has taken on a top-shelf collection of music company investors such as Spotify, Live Nation, YouTube, Red Light Management and Bertelsmann Digital Media. Financial backers include Mike Novogratz’s Galaxy Digital, Valor Equity Partners, and Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss, sources say. According to a recent SEC filing, JKBX raised $16 million from investors in January alone.
“I see it as a potential game-changer in the music rights world,” says Round Hill CEO Josh Gruss (who is not an investor).
JKBX is not the first company to test these waters. Masterworks and AcreTrader both launched in 2018 as marketplaces where the average person could invest in top-end commodities by purchasing fractional shares of securitized fine art or farmland to earn returns. In music, Royalty Exchange, SongVest and Royal have all been doing something similar for years, but industry insiders and artists say that JKBX’s backers, song catalog and SEC validation give it a serious leg up.
Its launch also comes at a time when fans wield more power than ever to send old songs viral again, by using snippets of them in TikTok videos, for example, and may therefore have more interest in owning a share of these songs’ earnings than they did in the past.
Sources say JKBX has secured the rights to hundreds of hit songs worth over $4 billion, substantially more than prior companies in this space, and is in talks with several major rights holders, including Hipgnosis, BMG and at least one of the majors.
JKBX says it is not working directly with songwriters because it’s currently focused on securing deals that can deliver a diverse list of assets up front, though it is open to working with artist-owned catalogs in the future. Instead, it divides music assets into royalty shares and submits those shares to the SEC for qualification as Regulation A offerings. Every time an investor buys, trades or sells shares on its platform, JKBX earns a commission.
While the artist is not directly involved in the offering or investment, JKBX CEO Scott Cohen says the company actively tries to make original recording artists aware of its listings and get the artists’ blessing for songs that appear on the platform.
DJ-producer Diplo, who partnered with Royal in March 2022 to sell tokens linked to the streaming revenue of his song “Don’t Forget My Love,” says JKBX’s “business-minded” leaders and their embrace of conventional market rules — only SEC-registered and -regulated investments will be offered — convinced him the platform stands the best chance of succeeding.
“This has major artists,” he says. “It has the best chance of winning because there is real cash flow in music. There is already a money chain — and it is really SEC-regulated.” (JKBX currently is not involved with blockchain or non-fungible tokens — technologies other startups in this space have used.)
Ape Drums, Diplo and DJ Walshy Fire of Major Lazer attend Preakness 146 hosted by 1/ST at Pimlico Race Course on May 15, 2021 in Baltimore, Maryland.
Paul Morigi/Getty Images
Tedder says that when Chapman and JKBX approached him with their pitch, “I think they got maybe two or three sentences in before I said, ‘Hold on a minute. You’re pitching me on the exact same idea that I had.’ ” He says he also told them, “ ‘The devil’s in the execution and your partners — getting [Universal Music Group (UMG) chairman/CEO] Lucian Grainge, getting giant funds like Hipgnosis. Whoever gets the largest collection of catalogs first, gets the signoff from the SEC first, jumps through all the hoops first is the winner.’ And they’re like, ‘Yeah, that’s us.’ ”
An early example of the financialization of music assets came in 1997, when David Bowie partnered with the Prudential Insurance Company and attorney David Pullman to raise $55 million through the sale of what became known as Bowie Bonds. It was the first example of an artist getting investors to bet on the income a back catalog would generate.
“This is a natural progression,” Pullman, chairman/CEO of The Pullman Group, wrote in an email. “The interest in investing has continued since these first … landmark deals where you have seen the biggest, savviest investors enter the market to recognize this asset class of music that keeps growing. It’s only natural [that] investors and fans would want to invest in their favorite songs. Song by song gives more choice.”
JKBX’s idea to allow investors to create customized portfolios of songs follows the recent launch of several exchange-traded funds, including David Schulhof’s MUSQ, where investors buy shares to gain exposure to 48 different music companies, including Warner Music Group (WMG), Spotify and Live Nation, and TUNE, a fund providing exposure to 50 music and digital companies, including UMG, Netflix and The Walt Disney Company.
“As long as the deals and investors are selective,” Pullman wrote, royalty streams “can be a sound investment.”
The JKBX interface through which investors can buy stakes in song royalty streams.
Courtesy of Jukebox
One key difference between owning stock in publicly traded companies and royalty shares in music assets is that the latter doesn’t give the investor any right to say how a song is marketed or promoted.
“You’re basically buying an income stream. You have no control over or input into how the song is used,” says Don Passman, renowned copyright expert, lawyer for Taylor Swift and author of the music industry handbook All You Need To Know About the Music Business. “The prices will be higher [than more conventional investments],” he explains, “because of two things: the sexiness of it and being able to buy it in little bitty pieces. It’s a little like fantasy sports, except with real money.”
Hendel and Cohen like the fantasy sports comparison for a couple of reasons: Fans who invest in sports tend to spend more money overall on merchandise and experiences linked to games, and labels are eagerly searching for ways to find and reach their artists’ superfans.
“We view this as a way to connect people more deeply to their favorite artists and elevate the catalog,” says Hendel. JKBX’s market research tells it superfans are one of their three target audiences. “A lot of our partners are looking at this not as a way to make money — the real thing is fan engagement.”
Cohen acknowledges that selling the platform’s potential to investors comes with a substantial learning curve, but he has successfully schooled the industry on similarly challenging concepts. As co-founder of groundbreaking digital music distributor The Orchard, he helped administer the first music downloads to mobile phones when consumers were still buying CDs.
“Trying to explain to people that they would be not only consuming music on their mobile device, they would be creating and engaging — just impossible,” Cohen says. “They’d go, ‘You want to download music? Why? I have a six-CD changer in my car.’ ”
Between 1995 and 2003, The Orchard racked up $3 million in debt. “We owed everybody money,” says Cohen. “We owed every artist money, our employees, the electric bill, the rent. I had lost all of my possessions.” And the IRS was hounding the company. At one point in the early 2000s, he recalls living out of The Orchard’s Lower East Side office subsisting on a diet of beans and rice cooked on a hot plate in the pantry. “I discovered there is a level of poverty; that zero, it turns out, is not the bottom,” he says. “It goes much deeper.” Cohen adds, “It was really dark times, but I was super confident in this space.”
Scott Cohen, JKBX CEO
Susanna Cappellaro
When Apple’s iTunes Store launched in 2003, The Orchard owned roughly one-third of the digital rights to all of the songs in it. The first check the company received exceeded its total 2002 revenue. The next month, that figure doubled, Cohen says. “It was confirmation of eight years of incredible struggle.”
The Orchard paid off all of its debts a short time later thanks to a several-million-dollar infusion from media investor Daniel Stein, who Cohen says gave him sage advice: “He said, ‘You made it this far, but now you’re going to have competition. Everyone is going to pour into this space, and all that hard work to get into the lead will evaporate overnight because new people will come in fully capitalized without any debt and they’ll eat your lunch.”
This time around, Cohen is the new guy that Stein warned him about, and he claims that puts JKBX at an advantage. “With The Orchard, we were first. With JKBX we are — whatever. Twentieth,” he says. “You enter the space without all the baggage of the past, you learn from everyone else, you’re fully capitalized and, wow, you can do a lot of damage.”
However, Cohen will have to manage investors’ expectations for returns, which will be highly dependent on how quickly JKBX can achieve scale.
Company representatives decline to reveal how many customers it needs to break even, but Cohen, who runs JKBX’s 35-person team remotely from his London home, reiterates that he’s not concerned about that number. “We’ve modeled the company around a very modest growth curve — like ridiculously small numbers of people. We have enough runway to last us a very, very long time without me having to lose all my possessions and become homeless again.
“When I look at the next year to 18 months, it’s a long, slow, educational curve where we just march forward month after month, quarter after quarter on a very clear path of what we want to do and not get stressed that every rights holder, artist and consumer isn’t on board on day one,” he continues. “It is going to take a moment for this to catch on, and as long as we are seeing the growth, we feel we are in the right place.”
Cohen has a preternatural confidence and comfort in technology’s ability to improve the human experience. In addition to founding The Orchard and later helping WMG “see over the horizon” as its chief innovation officer, he co-founded wearable technology company CyborgNest in 2017 and became one of its test subjects, implanting a device called NorthSense into his chest that vibrated when he faced magnetic north.
“We only know what we know because of the sensory information that comes into our brains,” he says. “What if we give [the brain] a new signal? How would your brain interpret it? The thought was that it would make me more human, not less.”
Cohen attempted to implant three different devices, but his body ultimately rejected all of them. While he hopes to resume these explorations, he says the opportunity to run JKBX was irresistible, and he doesn’t need a wearable gadget to navigate the royalty share business: “We don’t have a road map, but we have a compass, and that’s all that matters. We are doing something new, and I know where we’re headed.”
It is too soon to project what JKBX investors can expect in terms of return on their investment, but two sources estimate royalty shares will provide a base rate of return of around 3%. By comparison, the S&P 500 Index is up about 14% so far this year, and the yield on the ultra-safe 10-year U.S. Treasury notes are at 15-year highs of 4.35% (as of Aug. 21). While JKBX’s royalty shares are a fledgling asset class compared with both of those investments, it is worth noting that on average, the stock price for companies that filed initial public offerings in 2022 rose by an average of 10%, and Royalty Exchange, which launched over a decade ago, now says it provides annual returns to investors of 13.3% a year.
Hipgnosis Songs Fund, a pioneer in providing investors exposure to music royalties through its publicly listed trust, said in July that its investors have earned 27.9 cents per share of dividends since its July 2018 IPO — a 69% net asset value return to shareholders.
Many factors affect investor returns, including market conditions, initial price, demand on a secondary market, how long an investor holds an asset and when the investor buys it. JKBX thinks this will appeal to superfans, people looking to diversify their portfolios, and crypto and Web3-savvy investors.
JKBX and financial experts argue that the rules of efficient markets incentivize issuers to price royalty shares competitively in order to create demand and foster the success of the platform.
When JKBX executives pitch rights holders and artists, they highlight older songs that achieved fresh success from viral moments on TikTok and Spotify — songs like Miguel’s 2010 hit “Sure Thing.” JKBX presents a new way to cash in on catalog-caliber songs and could help identify fans who share and promote them most, JKBX executives say. If users agree to it, JKBX sees a future where artists and labels could directly connect with superfans on the platform, potentially driving future social media revivals.
In the meantime, publicly traded music trusts like Hipgnosis, whose stock is trading at a discount, and labels, which are under investor pressure for the high prices they paid to acquire catalogs, can use JKBX “as an outlet to raise liquidity to justify their acquisitions and a higher share price to the public,” Pullman says.
As for the average investor, Passman is skeptical that they will earn high returns from JKBX, given the price record labels and catalog funds have had to pay to acquire hit song catalogs in recent years.
“It is unlikely that consumers will be able to get [royalty shares] at an initial price that would have any kind of decent return just because the multiples will be high and because there is a sexy value to owning a piece of your favorite artist’s song,” Passman says, cautioning that returns will be song-specific and lesser-known songs might present better returns.
Larry Miller, director of New York University’s Music Business Program at the Steinhardt School, says that JKBX’s success hinges on “the belief that [royalty shares] will be worth more in the future than they are worth today, and having in place a transparent, fast and highly liquid secondary market is essential in having this be more than an interesting, fun and curious hobby for fans.”
If JKBX can get that in place, Miller says, “there is a great deal of potential impact here.”
This story will appear in the Aug. 26, 2023, issue of Billboard.
Five years ago, Lil Wayne sat down in his Miami recording studio and spoke in depth with Billboard for the first time in almost a decade. The trailblazing rapper and entrepreneur stood at a crossroads: On the verge of releasing what he had declared would be his final album, Tha Carter V, he had finally settled the three-year lawsuit against his former label Cash Money that had delayed the project’s release and just been awarded sole ownership of the Young Money imprint he had launched in 2003.
So as Aug. 11 — the 50th anniversary of hip-hop — fast approaches alongside Young Money’s own 20th birthday, it’s fitting to be sitting down with Lil Wayne once again. One of the genre’s most innovative and still influential artists, the 40-year-old Louisianian occupies a unique vantage point, forged during a now nearly 30-year journey that began in 1997 with the New Orleans group Hot Boys and soon grew into a multimillion-selling solo career. And that’s not counting the still-growing list of hit collaborations he’s had with a diverse array of fellow hip-hop and R&B artists — including Drake, Nicki Minaj, Future, 2 Chainz, Chris Brown, Mary J. Blige and Lil Baby — as well as other intrepid pairings with artists up and down the genre aisles: Madonna, Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber, Imagine Dragons, Fall Out Boy, Romeo Santos and Shakira, among others. In the course of hip-hop’s own evolution, Wayne’s career is a bridge between then and now, between the genre’s storied, hard-won past and its next-gen, global future.
Young Money Records executive vp/GM Karen Civil, who began running Wayne’s label and several additional portfolios — including his rum brand, Bumbu, and his underwear line, Ethika — in March, says that she also looks at him “as a tree, a foundation. Through the years, we’ve seen different branches blossom, from Nicki and Drake to his businesses, including Young Money, and his relationship with [label president] Mack Maine. A lot of people know Drake and Wayne. But he’s set up so many other people — Tyga is one — who have given him his flowers, like, ‘You’re the reason I rap.’ Those moments mean a lot because he loves to see people around him win.”
Producer-rapper Swizz Beatz has personally witnessed Wayne’s evolution from the time when, as he recalls, they were both “the youngest ones” on the Cash Money and Ruff Ryders tour in 2000. “I knew he was special then, and he’s definitely special now,” continues Swizz, who has collaborated with Wayne for more than 20 years. “It takes a special eye and ear to see a Drake before he’s Drake or a Nicki before she’s Nicki … or the many other artists he’s been involved with who are some of the biggest artists alongside himself to date. That comes from his investment of time, his eye, energy and business sense. He’s responsible for this generation of music.”
Before he could provide a foundation for others, Wayne had to build his own. Over his career, he’s notched five No. 1 albums on the Billboard 200 and 12 top 10s. Tha Carter III, released in 2008, spent three weeks at No. 1 — making it the Wayne album with the most weeks at that perch — and has racked up 221 weeks total on the chart, the most of any of his releases; in September 2022, the RIAA recertified it at eight times platinum.
On the Billboard Hot 100, the five-time Grammy winner has claimed a total of 25 top 10s — including gems “A Milli”; “She Will,” featuring Drake; and “6 Foot 7 Foot,” featuring Cory Gunz — and three No. 1s: “Lollipop,” featuring Static Major (Wayne’s first RIAA diamond track, certified in December); Jay Sean’s “Down,” featuring Wayne; and DJ Khaled’s star-studded “I’m the One,” which, along with Wayne’s guest spot, also features Justin Bieber, Quavo and Chance the Rapper. With 185 total Hot 100 entries — up from 138 just five years ago — Wayne has the fourth-most songs on the chart ever behind Drake, Taylor Swift and the Glee cast.
“Wayne is definitely somebody who continues to create his own blueprint from rap to rock,” says Civil. “I just love the fact that he doesn’t put himself in one category. He continues to reinvent himself and do new things — like becoming a professional skateboarder at 40. He doesn’t put an age limit on things. He doesn’t allow a title, a job or one career set to define him. Seeing the plethora of different people, from [Lil Uzi Vert] to YoungBoy [Never Broke Again] to others who are creating their own genres and sounds, is a testament to Wayne creating that lane.”
Balenciaga T-shirt and jacket, Peter Marco jewelry, Louis Vuitton eyewear.
Ramona Rosales
And it certainly no longer looks like the ever-busy multihyphenate — who has released an album and two mixtapes since Tha Carter V — will stop recording any time soon; “retirement be damned” seems to now be his motto. According to Civil, Wayne has “quite a few singles” in the pipeline as both lead and featured artist. He and 2 Chainz are currently collaborating on ColleGrove II, the sequel to their 2016 collaboration. Though no release date has been set, Tha Carter VI is also in the works. Wayne recently wrapped 30 dates on his Welcome to Tha Carter Tour, where Drake, Chance the Rapper, Cam’ron and 2 Chainz made special appearances.
And he was in his element opening the ESPY Awards in July with an apropos performance of his 2008 hit “A Milli.” “He was being a true artist, rearranging the words to the song to make sure that it was curated to the event,” Swizz Beatz notes. “I thought that was genius.”
Meanwhile, Wayne continues to develop hip-hop’s next generation of talent, working with Civil and Maine to build his Young Money roster, which includes Allan Cubas, Drizzy P, Euro, Jay Jones, Lil Twist, Mellow Rackz and Yaj Kader.
“Wayne is the ultimate outlier. There was nobody in the history of the genre who sounded like him, looked like him, or released music like him. Everybody caught his wave and just tried to hang on for dear life,” says Republic Records founder and COO Avery Lipman (Young Money is distributed through Republic/Universal Music Group.) “It goes without saying he’s one of the greatest artists of all time, but he’s also one of the most visionary businessmen this industry has ever seen.”
It’s a humble, humorous, polite (“thank you, Miss Gail”), self-deprecating and brief, to-the-point Lil Wayne who sits down once again today with Billboard — this time in West Hollywood — to reflect on his legacy and hip-hop’s future against the backdrop of the genre’s 50th anniversary. With a disarming and sly, diamond-studded grin, Wayne underscores his deep-rooted love of hip-hop. “In my mind, every single time I say the word ‘work,’ I ask God to forgive me,” he says. “Cuz I know this has never been a job. It’s just a dream come true.”
Looking back on your career thus far, what does this momentous anniversary mean to you — and to hip-hop itself — since naysayers initially dismissed the fledgling genre as a fad?
I think it probably means more to me than I even know, because I am still in it, a deep part of it, and I’m still learning every day. Hip-hop will never be over. But I also think that maybe down the line, I’ll be able to answer that question better because I don’t think I know how much it means to me yet — because it means that much.
You signed with Cash Money before you were even a teen. Did you know that early that you could build a career as a rap artist?
I’ve been rapping since I was 7, actually. And I signed my deal when I was 11. I didn’t think about nothing else other than “We about to be the biggest everything.” (Laughs.) Like, I’m about to be this … I’m about to date her. I’m about to do … (Laughs again.) I was a kid, you know? It was like, what are you going [to want] for Christmas? As far as unforgettable moments go [back then], I would say that was probably my first time grabbing a mic as a kid at a block party, breaking my fear and rapping stuff that I had rapped in the mirror for, like, thousands of hours the night before.
Ethika T-shirt; Balenciaga jacket, pants and shoes; Peter Marco jewelry; Emotionally Unavailable hat.
Ramona Rosales
So given your early vantage point, what are the biggest changes you’ve seen happen in hip-hop?
Right now is the time where I see the most change in our genre, because back then, I think it was just progress more than change; progression from what was already set before us and also us honoring what was set before us. But now it’s not that no one’s honoring what was before them — it’s just that the world has changed thanks to social media. There was no such thing as social media when I started doing this. But social media has changed the genre and opened doors. That’s definitely what helped contribute to its going global. [Social media] is good and bad.
Want to give examples of the good and the bad?
No. (Laughs.)
What has been the hardest part of your journey?
The hardest part for me is not being able to do [my music], for whatever reason. Not being able to record. Not being able to tour or do a show. That’s always the hardest part.
What one career lesson have you carried along since the beginning?
Never, never stop learning. That’s how you humble yourself. Humility goes a long way and it’ll keep you learning. I just try to get better and better and better.
Did you ever subscribe to the notion that hip-hop is only a young man’s game?
No, never. Because when I was growing up, all the rappers were way older than me. So I don’t know what that notion or narrative was, because it was never a young man’s game to me. I’ve always felt I had to fight my way in when I was a young man.
You’ve mapped a blueprint in terms of musical innovation and entrepreneurial pursuits like your Trukfit fashion line, the Young Money APAA Sports agency, the cannabis brand GKUA Ultra Premium and other business ventures. How do you perceive the role you’ve played in that aspect of rap’s evolution?
Expanding yourself and becoming a brand, getting involved in other businesses … the small part that I’ve played is probably just setting an example for those watching me and those coming after me. And with that said, I got that from watching Jay-Z, Reverend Run and Russ [Simmons] move. How they never stopped and just evolved, [especially] the way Jay has evolved. (Laughs.) I’m trying to follow stuff like that. And hopefully those coming up under me will follow my footsteps.
Do you have a wish list of other business opportunities you’d like to pursue?
Oh, no. I don’t have a list. You limit yourself when you put a list together. (Laughs.) But I can guarantee there has to be a feeling that makes me go forward with any [business] decision that I make. So therefore I know that it is organic.
You underscored your electric stage presence with 2010’s Rebirth, your creative leap into rock after ventures into blending rap with pop and singing. What influence has that had on next-gen artists with similar vibes, like Lil Uzi Vert, Travis Scott, Young Thug and Trippie Redd?
Sometimes people ask me how I feel about everybody looking like me, everybody getting tattoos, etc. That’s like seeing your kid come out of the room and looking just like you; it feels amazing. So the visible influence is kind of obvious because I know for a fact I didn’t get this look from anyone. There was no one that inspired this look. I just ran into looking like this. (Laughs.) But other than that, I hope that my work ethic [is influential as well].
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How would you describe your work ethic? You seem like a 24/7 studio guy.
Exactly. So when other artists get around me, you know, they can smell that. It is impossible for them not to. And whenever they leave, they leave with something, as they remember that smell. And hopefully it does something for them.
So is your phone ringing off the hook with people asking you for advice?
No, not advice, not at all. That’s because they don’t have my number. (Laughs.) I have three sons and a beautiful daughter who get the advice.
On Billboard’s recent GOAT list of hip-hop’s top 50 artists, you landed at No. 7, between The Notorious B.I.G. at No. 6 and Drake at No. 8. What did you think of your placement?
That’s awesome. You would be happy to be anywhere on that list.
So which rappers would be in the top five of your own GOAT list?
There’s no specific order, but it’s simple. For me, it’s always been Missy Elliott, Jay-Z, UGK, Goodie Mob and Biggie.
Why those five? What’s the throughline for you in terms of their place in the genre’s evolution?
It’s because I organically grew up on [them]. You know, when you’re asked, “How’d you start listening?,” there’s a story for everybody … like, someone I know told me to start listening or whatever. But like I said, every decision I make is organic.
What does it take to break new hip-hop artists today?
Today, you have to know social media. If you don’t, you have to have a team that does. That said, the main thing today is what it has been yesterday and the day before yesterday: You just have to have real talent. Real, everlasting and undeniable talent. That’s how you still break an artist. Once you find that in an artist, then use and highlight that as much as you can, because it’s hard. There are lots of artists that want to be exactly what they see [and hear] on social media. They just want to be that instead of being what they actually can be. So get them to believe in what they are and what they truly can be. And even if it is a challenge, that challenge has always been one of the most fun things ever for me. I love it.
What exactly do you say or do when working with and developing new artists, since, as you just said, it’s so difficult to rise above everything that’s out there?
That you have to be at least good in whatever genre that you’re attacking, whether it’s hip-hop or not. And then you have to be willing to work as hard as you can to turn that good around into great. So come high at me, and you’ll be talking about the greatest. It’s that plain and simple. There are no keys. You just need to believe in what you’ve got and what you’re attacking, if you believe in it. Show me. Think harder, you know? Challenge yourself.
Ramona Rosales
What’s been your own secret to longevity?
I don’t have a secret. I just work. I just keep going. I never stop. It’s just the work ethic, plain and simple. No more, no less; I don’t do nothing but my music. And also, in my mind, every single time I say the word “work,” I ask God to forgive me. Cuz I know this has never been a job. It’s just a dream come true. So that’s why I’ve never stopped.
Is it difficult for you to say that to someone who’s not there yet?
Not at all. I can’t tell any other artists that. But if you’re my artist, oh hell, yeah. I’ll let them know. You better go do that sh-t again. (Laughs.)
What are your thoughts on the growing ranks of women rappers? Why has it taken so long for this to happen?
My answer would be, honestly, that it just wasn’t as interesting to women, I don’t think, in the way that Nicki [Minaj], Meg [Megan Thee Stallion] and others are. It’s awesome. I don’t think they looked at or viewed it as something that they wanted to do and actually make a living from it. That’s another part of it. They probably didn’t look at this as something that they could make a living out of.
And perhaps the industry has become a bit more open-minded, too?
Oh, yeah. Definitely. We’re here for everything now.
Where is the future of hip-hop headed — any trends that you’re noticing?
Obviously, always up and bigger and better. Also, what I’m seeing now is the art and the ultimate artist being able to do anything. It’s like when you and I were talking about basketball. Back then, we were looking for a Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar]; if you were tall, we wanted you in the paint. Not even knowing how to shoot a three-pointer; we didn’t even want to see that. Now we’ve got these seven-footers coming in, and we need you [to] know how to dribble like Allen Iverson, how to shoot like Steph Curry. You need to know how to defend like GP [Gary Payton]. And that’s the ultimate artist. I believe that that’s where the genre is headed: artists able to do everything — from singing to tapping into different emotions.
What’s your opinion on artificial intelligence and its potential effect on creativity?
Someone asked me about that recently. And they were trying to tell me that AI could make a voice that sounds just like me. But it’s not me, because I’m amazing. I’m like, is this AI thing going to be amazing too? Because I am naturally, organically amazing. I’m one of a kind. So actually, I would love to see that thing try to duplicate this motherf–ker.
In the wake of AI and other emerging technology, have mixtapes lost their relevance?
The terminology or definition has changed, that’s all. Mixtapes can mean an album mix or anything now. But when it comes to Lil Wayne, everybody knows how I approach mixtapes. So my mixtapes won’t ever change.
Any hints as to what fans can expect when you perform Aug. 11 at the hip-hop 50th anniversary concert at Yankee Stadium?
Do not set expectations for me, because I will always exceed them. So just go there with a clear mind, expect the best — and I’ll be better than that.
This story will appear in the Aug. 5, 2023, issue of Billboard.
Peso Pluma arrives slightly early to his own birthday party. He’s dressed in Dior from head to toe, but still looks casual in a long-sleeve button-down overshirt stamped with the designer’s oblique logo, dark jeans and black sneakers with white shoelaces. The famously punctual birthday boy, who’s turning 24 today (June 15), tours the venue — a gorgeous hidden garden just south of Guadalajara in Jalisco, Mexico, that’s overflowing with trees and sparkly chandeliers — to ensure his vision for the party has been executed. Amid the greenery is a makeshift club with a stage, a dancefloor surrounded by tables and couches, and a huge light-up bar that’s impossible to miss. Pretty much what one would expect a 20-something’s birthday party vibe to be like.
But his childhood dreams have also come to life here. Branching off the club area, there’s a sweets room with all sorts of Mexican candy and, separately, another room for all things savory, with countless bags of chips — from Takis to Ruffles to Tostitos — and an array of toppings like melted cheddar cheese, chile piquín, lime and corn. Piñatas, including one of Peso himself and another of Spider-Man (a childhood favorite), hang from the ceilings, and Peso flashes a pearly white, almost mischievous ear-to-ear smile when he sees them. “It’s exactly how I envisioned it,” he says with satisfaction.
He could say the same of his now globe-spanning career. The artist born Hassan Emilio Kabande Laija is at the forefront of Mexican music, leading the genre’s seismic growth in the United States and beyond with his signature corridos tumbados — a variety of the corrido (storytelling ballad) that often flaunts a chill yet lavish, weed-centric lifestyle. Raw, nasally and raspy, Peso’s distinctive vocals punctuate a sound powered by a requinto acoustic guitar, tololoche (a stringed bass instrument), charcheta (an alto horn) and trombone. And he remains a creative chameleon: Outside of corridos, he has recorded heartbreak and ultra-romantic songs, too.
Neither his voice nor sound are those of a typical pop star, but right now, Peso is one of the biggest artists in the world. To date, he has over 700 million on-demand official streams in the United States, according to Luminate, and 18 entries on the Billboard Hot 100 — including the blockbuster hit “Ella Baila Sola” with Eslabon Armado, which made history as the first regional Mexican song to enter the top five on the all-genre chart. In June, he became the first artist to ever lead both the Billboard Global 200 and Billboard Global Excl. U.S. lists simultaneously with different songs: the sierreño anthem “Ella Baila Sola” and his Bizarrap-produced track “Bzrp Music Sessions, Vol. 55.” His new album, Génesis, debuted at No. 3 on the Billboard 200 (dated July 1) — the highest rank ever for a música mexicana album on the chart.
“My life has changed a lot,” says Peso, who recalls that his first shows in Mexico just last year were attended by 500 people. (These days, he’s performing in arenas for upwards of 10,000.) Since his first hit, “El Belicón” with Raúl Vega, entered Billboard’s Hot Latin Songs chart in April 2022, he has landed 12 top 10 songs on the list, all in 2023 — the most for any regional Mexican act this year. Now, just days before releasing Génesis, he’s back in Mexico after spending the first half of 2023 on the road. In April, amid a brief run of U.S. dates, he performed at Coachella as a guest for Becky G’s set and then flew to New York to play “Ella Baila Sola” on The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon. He has also visited Colombia, Chile and the Dominican Republic, where he recorded collaborations with Blessd, Nicki Nicole and El Alfa, respectively.
“Now my life is my work, and I live for this,” he says. Peso doesn’t come from a family of musicians and is notoriously private about his family life but shares that his “familia trabajadora (hardworking family)” instilled that go-getter mentality in him at a young age. “I’m very happy to do what I love doing the most and to be able to share a message of perseverance with up-and-coming artists. Sometimes, as Mexicans, we put a lot of barriers on ourselves and we lack the confidence. Today, I see that people are proud of our movement. Back then, they’d think that Mexicans couldn’t have a No. 1 song singing corridos and that regional Mexican music was only regional, not global. Today, all those barriers have been broken.”
Lust T-shirt, Bottega Veneta vest, Palm Angels jeans, A Bathing Ape sneakers, Off-White eyewear.
Mary Beth Koeth
Born on the outskirts of Guadalajara, Peso Pluma — who at one point dreamed of becoming a professional soccer player — was fully immersed in corridos as a kid, listening to artists such as late sierreño star Ariel Camacho and Los Alegres del Barranco. “It’s what my uncles and family in Sinaloa [Mexico] would listen to,” he says. He spent time as a teen in New York and attended high school in San Antonio (he is bilingual, though he spoke in Spanish for this interview), and his exposure to different pockets of the continent influenced his diverse musical palette.
“Peso Pluma is really a combination of everything I like, of all the cities I’ve lived in, cultures I’ve come to know. It has all helped me,” he says. “When I went to the United States, I was listening to Kanye [West], Drake, Kendrick Lamar — it’s actually because of their songs that I learned to speak English. I’d come home from school and study their lyrics to try to understand the references they were making.” During a visit to New Orleans, he fell in love with jazz and the trombone, now a key instrument in his sound. He began writing his own lyrics in a diary-style notebook around the age of 15. Inspired by Camacho, who became a generational hero after his untimely death at age 22 in a 2015 car accident, Peso also learned to play guitar by watching YouTube videos. “There’s corridos in which you’ll hear me rap,” he says. “My music is inspired by many cultures, and that’s what I love about it.”
It was that versatility that struck George Prajin most when he met Peso in 2019 through one of his former artists, regional Mexican singer Jessie Morales, who performs as El Original de la Sierra. Although impressed with Peso’s previously released recordings, he didn’t sign him then, which was a “mistake,” says Prajin. So instead, Peso signed with Jessie’s brother, Herminio Morales — but, two years later, “Herminio called me saying he wasn’t doing well with his health and asked me to basically take on the project,” the Los Angeles-based Prajin explains. “I got a second opportunity.”
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For many years, Prajin had been looking for an artist who could successfully fuse hip-hop and corridos. As the son of Antonio Z. Prajin, owner of music retailer and distributor Prajin One-Stop, “I saw that a lot of the kids in the ’90s would buy corridos but also buy hip-hop. Back then, it was The Notorious B.I.G. or 2Pac and Chalino Sánchez. I always thought that I could invent some fusion that would be the biggest thing on the planet. When I met Peso, I thought, ‘Maybe this is the way that we’re going to get this done.’ ”
While Peso loved an array of genres, he was very clear about how he didn’t want to sound. “I remember he told me, ‘If I’m going to record reggaetón, then it has to be an all-reggaetón song. If I’m going to do a rap song, it has to be a rap song. Same with regional,’ ” says Prajin. “At first, I was like, ‘Wow, are you sure?’ But now I understand why: because he can own each one of those genres. He’s that versatile, and he’s that good. He knows what he’s doing and knows exactly what he wants. That’s when I said, ‘Take the lead, Peso.’ ”
Peso Pluma didn’t reach the summit of Mexican music on his own — and he wouldn’t have it any other way. Of his 20 songs to appear on the Hot 100 this year, 18 are collaborations, with young artists like Natanael Cano, who in the late 2010s pioneered the corridos tumbados (trap corridos) subgenre; sierreño powerhouse Junior H; and corridos singer Luis R Conriquez.
“It’s beautiful to see that if I invite Luis R or Nata to sing with me at a show or on my album, they’re there. We all may be prideful and have an ego, but we’re there for each other,” Peso says confidently. He knows that collaborations have been key in the recent rise of regional Mexican music. “At the end of the day, they’re not doing this for me — they’re doing it for the culture of Mexican music. We’re coming together to help this grow because that’s what they did with reggaetón. All the artists came together to grow the genre, and later, they were able to be successful on their own.”
Supreme jacket, Balenciaga T-shirt, Burberry shorts, Nike socks and sneakers, Off-White eyewear.
Mary Beth Koeth
According to Luminate, regional Mexican music consumption in the United States jumped 42.1% year to date through May 25, outpacing gains in the Latin genre overall, as well as country, dance/electronic, rock and pop. Only K-pop — up 49.4% year to date — has performed better this year than regional Mexican. About 99% of regional Mexican consumption comes from streaming. “For the past five years, we’ve seen numbers rising for the Mexican music genre,” says Maykol Sánchez, head of artist and label partnerships for Latin America and U.S. Latin at Spotify. During the past five years, the genre grew by 604% in Mexico, compared with 212% in the United States and over 400% globally.
Even within that context of astounding growth, Peso’s numbers are stunning. From June 2022 to June 2023, his average daily listeners increased by 4,341% and his average daily streams increased by 10,792%. “Música mexicana has gone through a similar evolution that reggaetón also went through when it blew up; [the artists have] modernized the way they look, the way they write lyrics, creating a movement for their generation. It has been a long time coming, and Mexican being such a strong culture in the U.S. with the population, it just makes sense,” Sánchez says.
With nearly 40 million residents of Mexican origin, the United States is home to the world’s second-largest Mexican community, which comprises over one-half of America’s overall Latin population. “Mexican music is now pop culture,” says AJ Ramos, head of artist partnerships for Latin music and culture at YouTube. “We’re seeing it because of the power of the Mexican diaspora, the connection between the U.S. and Mexico. The culture is here and the users are here. Artists from other Latin subgenres now have to start collaborating with them to have a hit.”
Thanks to massive team-ups like “Ella Baila Sola” with Eslabon Armado and his Bizarrap session, Peso has had No. 1s on YouTube’s global Top Songs chart in markets including Mexico, Colombia, El Salvador, Italy and Spain and is on track to be one of the 10 most viewed artists globally this year, according to the video streaming platform. “In 2018, one or two songs a week [from the genre] were entering the U.S. Top Songs chart; now the genre represents 25% of the chart,” YouTube music trends manager Kevin Meenan says.
Amiri hoodie and hat, Cartier eyewear.
Mary Beth Koeth
Regional Mexican music, an umbrella term comprising banda, corridos, norteño, sierreño, mariachi and other subgenres, has been a pillar of Latin music for decades. In the past year, the genre, which has been around for over 150 years, has exploded in popularity worldwide, reaching a broader audience after being long considered music solely for Mexican and Mexican American audiences. Back in the day, the music was heavily stigmatized, considered música de rancho (rancho music), and its listeners were often stereotyped as uneducated or poor.
That’s no longer the case, explains Pepe Garza, head of content development and A&R for media company Estrella Music Entertainment. “Young people in general aren’t as prejudiced as older generations, and they’re not judging each other about the music they’re listening to. That has been important to the genre’s growth.”
Now global forces like Bad Bunny and Colombian hit-maker Ovy on the Drums (Karol G’s longtime producer) are recording norteñas and corridos, respectively. “We had been so saturated with the same thing over and over again,” says Ovy on the Drums, who collaborated with Peso on “El Hechizo,” a corrido fused with Ovy’s signature dancehall beat. “Mexican music is huge right now, and not just with corridos — they’re also killing it with reggaetón. Enter Peso, who can do it all. Plus, he’s really good onstage. He has the whole package.”
Peso Pluma photographed on June 28, 2023 at Toe Jam Backlot in Miami.
Mary Beth Koeth
Peso’s high-energy performances are a spectacle. Singing live — usually clad in shorts and a T-shirt, his signature high socks, his favorite pair of white Air Force 1s and, at times, a Spider-Man mask — he tirelessly dances and jumps along to songs with the backing of a riveting live band. He’s a dynamo who feeds off his equally energetic, multigenerational fan base. When Becky G brought him out at Coachella, the crowd roared to greet him — an especially memorable reception, given that he was then an emerging global act.
“His tone is something that is hard to forget, and it instantly made me appreciate how unique he is as an artist,” says Becky G, who teamed up with Peso for “Chanel,” the first single off her upcoming Mexican music album. “But I also think he allows his personality to shine even more through his stage presence that’s equally as unique as he is. I went to go watch him perform at his first U.S. tour run, and his energy was so contagious — I think it plays a huge part in how much he connects with his fans.”
“Before Peso, there was Grupo Firme, who was doing big things for the genre, and before Grupo Firme, there was Banda MS,” Garza says. “It’s natural that new [regional Mexican] artists keep reaching new heights because they’re standing on the shoulders of the ones that came before them.” Peso is the latest evolution of regional Mexican stardom — fearless and revolutionary like those before him, but with a magnetic charm all his own.
It’s difficult to describe Peso Pluma’s haircut. Something like a mullet with a sideburn fade, it doesn’t exactly scream trend in the making. Yet, like all things Peso, it’s now in high demand.
“The other day, a barber from Mexico City called me and said, ‘Thank you for giving us so much work.’ Apparently, 24 people had requested ‘the Peso Pluma haircut’ in one day,” says Peso in shock. Even many on his own team haven’t heard the story of how he got that haircut in the first place. “I used to have long hair — think Justin Bieber back when he released ‘Baby,’ ” Peso recalls with a chuckle. “My hair is a superpower, so I’m very particular about who cuts my hair. On a trip to Medellín, Colombia, this barber said he was going to give me a haircut that is very popular in Medellín — he said, ‘Trust me, you’re going to love it.’ I hated it at first. I was like, ‘What did you do?’ Then I recorded a music video, and when I saw it, I was like, ‘Wait, actually, se ve bien perro [it looks really good].’ ”
So for now, he’s sticking with it — though he’s focused on influencing his followers in other ways. In April, he launched his own label, Double P Records, where he serves as CEO and head of A&R, as a subsidiary of his home label, Prajin Records. “I’m super happy to be able to help my friends because that’s how I see them. I don’t see them as my artists,” he explains. “More than anything, I want them to know that if I could do it, so can they. I’m on this journey with them; we’re paddling together. I tell them, ‘Learn from whatever is happening in my career. Take notes because I’m still growing just as you are.’ ” So far, those friends include Jasiel Nuñez, Tito Laija (Peso’s cousin and one of his co-writers) and Raúl Vega.
Starting a new label with Peso was a no-brainer, says Prajin, who also manages him. “I have that much faith in him,” Prajin adds. “When he saw that I really trusted him, he trusted me even more. We’ve never had boundaries. Everything he has ever wanted, every collab he has ever desired, we’ve made it happen. He definitely knows I have his back in terms of his career. I think, too, the way that we structured his deal — a lot of artists don’t make money until their second or third year. He’s making money in his first year. We’re partners, and I think he’s going to appreciate it even more when he sees not only that he’s making a lot of money, but he’s also keeping it.”
Mary Beth Koeth
While on his first-ever U.S. tour — which Prajin says had to be “renegotiated” with Live Nation to add dates following his rapid rise — Peso released Génesis in June. “I think of it as my debut album,” he says, adding that it features some of his “favorite” artists, including Cano, Junior H, Luis R and Nuñez. Following its release, it became Spotify’s all-time most streamed regional Mexican album in one day globally. Its strong streaming performance led to Peso placing a historic 25 simultaneous titles on the Hot Latin Songs chart (dated July 8), breaking Bad Bunny’s record of 24.
Although his first two albums were recorded more spur of the moment (and thus sound less professional), “I didn’t want to delete my previous albums because they represent my beginnings,” Peso says. “Those albums are the foundation of my castle. But I put all my effort into this new album, which includes songs to dance to, cry to, party to; there’s something for everyone. It’s a corridos album — or call them whatever you want: corridos verdes, tumbados, bélicos, because at the end of the day, it’s all Mexican music. It’s what I’m most proud of: that a Mexican song, a corrido, that isn’t pop can be No. 1 today.”
Globalizing Mexican music has been Peso’s goal since day one, and as he describes it, he’s just getting started. Performing at Coachella with Becky G was eye-opening for him, and he hopes to return to the festival next year to perform his own set. His manager says that’s already in the works, along with U.S. stadium dates in 2024, more collaborations with major Latin artists and eventually recording English-language songs with big names in the hip-hop world.
“I think people knew what corridos were because of Natanael and Bad Bunny’s collaboration [2019’s “Soy el Diablo”], but I really want artists from outside of our world to know what this music is all about,” says Peso enthusiastically. “Now that this has all exploded, everyone wants to do Mexican music. That’s how we globalize it: through key collaborations with artists who want to record our music.”
Mary Beth Koeth
His five-year plan isn’t set in stone but goes something like this: “I see myself working with artists and producers I’ve always dreamed of working with. I see myself winning a Grammy, breaking more records, but in five years, I see myself more like Hov, like Jay-Z, spending more time on the business side of it all and helping young artists achieve their dreams,” he says with determination.
For now, he’s OK with a different alter ego: Peter Parker, conveniently also a double P. “I always used to tell my friends that I was Peter Parker, and now it all makes sense,” says Peso with a smile. “Peter Parker is Hassan offstage, but Peso Pluma is Spider-Man when he goes onstage and fights against the bad guys of the world.”
At his birthday party, it was Hassan from Guadalajara who showed up — who only wanted to enjoy every second with his best buds, some of whom he hadn’t seen in months, whom he would greet with a big hug and a huge smile. Once the festivities began around 9 p.m., Peso quickly took the stage to introduce the first artist who would perform that night: not Peso Pluma, but his best friend, Jasiel Nuñez. “Let’s enjoy new talent,” he said, adding a quick reminder: “The point is that we all have fun here.”
This story will appear in the July 15, 2023, issue of Billboard.
On a bright, sunny day in May in the rural Santa Clarita Valley, a 45-minute drive north of Los Angeles, the quintet known as Fuerza Regida and its clan roll up in three luxury cars: a 2023 black Cadillac Escalade SUV, a graphite off-roader Lamborghini Urus and a white Chevrolet Corvette. As the band members made their way to the shaded area, sporting brands like Rhude and Dior along with custom-fitted Dodger caps, their necks and wrists sparkled, dripping in diamonds.
Given their style, one could easily label the members of Fuerza Regida as rappers. But the group from San Bernardino, Calif., is a trailblazer of the burgeoning música mexicana (or regional Mexican, as the music is also known) movement that has taken over the Billboard charts since the beginning of the year.
Born and raised in the United States, the members of Fuerza Regida — frontman and lead songwriter Jesús Ortiz Paz (known as JOP), lead guitarist Samuel Jaimez, second guitarist Khrystian Ramos, tuba player José García and tololoche player Moisés López — have become one of the main drivers of a homegrown music that celebrates Northern Mexican roots with a trap bravado. “We’re all American, so we like to dress with American swag. Whatever we sang about, it wasn’t the regular ranch stuff. It was about what’s going on in the hood, what’s going on in California, what’s going on in these different [U.S.] states. Then it just started growing,” JOP tells Billboard Español.
“The worst enemy of a Mexican is another Mexican. There’s not as many duets now. You know why? Because in regional, they’re all enemies.”— JOP, leader of Fuerza Regida and businessman
It grew so much that it outpaced any other genre. On the Billboard Hot 100 dated July 1, 17 Spanish-language songs appear on the chart, and 13 of them are música mexicana. In May 2021, Gera MX and Christian Nodal made history with “Botella Tras Botella,” becoming the first regional Mexican title to enter the all-genre list. Before 2021, only three regional Mexican acts had appeared on the Hot 100 since 1958, but they were classified as Latin pop in the charts. This year, however, consumption of música mexicana has skyrocketed: As of May 25, its popularity jumped by 42.1% in the United States, topping all genres but K-pop, according to Luminate.
As for Fuerza Regida, the group earned its first entry on the Hot 100 in January with “Bebe Dame” alongside Grupo Frontera, a swaggering romantic cumbia jam with a grupera persuasion that peaked at No. 25. Since then, the group has placed three other tracks on the all-genre chart: “Ch y La Pizza” with Natanael Cano, “Igualito a Mi Apá” with Peso Pluma, and the band’s penultimate solo single, “TQM.”
José Garcia, Moisés López, Jésus Ortiz Paz, Khrystian Ramos and Samuel Jaimez of Fuerza Regida photographed on May 23, 2023 at Tranquility Canyon Ranch in Santa Clarita, Calif.
Martha Galvan
And while Fuerza Regida’s music falls under “regional Mexican” or “música mexicana” — an umbrella term that covers Mexican music genres from accordion-based norteñas and brass-powered banda to corridos, cumbia, mariachi and sierreño — the band takes things a bit further by mixing in a hip-hop mentality and swagger into its norteño sensibility.
“Fuerza Regida are transgressors in the música mexicana space, who really show us how the new generation of Mexican Americans in the U.S. have their own language, they know how to use it, how to reach fans. I feel that today they’re the voice of the people,” says Carlos Quintero, senior manager for artist relations and marketing at Sony Music.
Today, the rugged desert scenery of our Santa Clarita location and the band’s high-end urban gear, bling and luxe cars all collide neatly to highlight the rustic borderland sound with a trap twist that Fuerza Regida has been brewing to global hype.
Como En Familia
Gathered around the snack table, the members of Fuerza Regida are messing around like rowdy cousins at a family carne asada function. They, along with Ángel Ureta and Diego Millan of Calle 24 — two artists that JOP signed to his label, Street Mob Records — place bets on what is clearly an exhilarating game of dice. “Boom! It happens, foo, it happens,” exclaims López, as he and García split a wad of $10 bills for their winning round. “That was a beautiful hand, bro,” says Jaimez.
The name Fuerza Regida (pronounced REH-hee-dah, with the emphasis on the “e”) denotes, for its members, a dominant or ruling force, although the word “régida” does not exist in the dictionary of the Real Academia Española and “regida” without the accent means “governed.” But in the band members’ street language, it makes perfect sense.
Jesús Ortiz Paz of Fuerza Regida photographed on May 23, 2023 at Tranquility Canyon Ranch in Santa Clarita, Calif.
Martha Galvan
The group tends to speak primarily in English, with smatterings of Spanish. “La neta [or “the truth,” in Mexican slang], I didn’t learn English or Spanish. I got bad vocabulary,” says JOP. “Me too,” adds López. “We all do,” echoes García. “Yeah, man, I’m not good at that. I probably have like third grade level,” JOP jokes.
JOP navigates not just as a wildly entertaining and spontaneous frontman but also like a boss. He is assertive yet jokes around and doesn’t hold back when speaking his mind. “I wanted to be famous for whatever: a boxer or an actor. But I was like, ‘No, I’m going to go through the singing stuff, because I’ve been doing it since I was little with my dad,’ ” says JOP, who doesn’t shy away from making shockingly bold and controversial statements.
“The worst enemy of a Mexican is another Mexican,” he says bluntly. “There’s not as many duets now. You know why? Because in regional, they’re all enemies. I’m trying to tell everybody, ‘Hey, let’s get united,’ like we did a year back [when] the genre wasn’t popping like that,” he says. “The five, six that are on top [of the charts] don’t want to duet. Now that we got here, everyone’s like, ‘I’m cool, I’m cool,’ ” he says. While the Hot 100 is loaded with música mexicana collaborations, the skyrocketing money at stake has sparked more competition and caution among artists when selecting their collaborators, he alludes.
The five San Bernardino natives met through “destiny,” in their words, and word-of-mouth at JOP’s old gig. “I used to cut hair, and one of my clients said, ‘Hey, I know this band that’s looking for a bass player,’ ” he recalls. “I came in and I played the bass during practice. Then they asked me, ‘Hey, do you sing?’ I sang them a song, and they were like, ‘Hey, you want to be the singer?’ I’m like, ‘Yeah, we’re a group!’ ” That was six years ago.
With JOP’s raw, passionate vocals, Jaimez’s fiery requinto riffs, Ramos’ driving rhythmic guitar and García’s whirling yet powerful melodies on tuba, the first iteration of Fuerza Regida was born. In 2021, López, who’s about six years younger than the others (who are all either 26 or 27), joined the troupe on the tololoche (a kind of Mexican contrabass).
The first-generation Mexican Americans loved regional Mexican music from a young age, although they were shy to admit it back then. “You had to only listen to it at home,” JOP admits. “Now, it’s the opposite. It’s taking over. Now, it’s bigger than rap.”
José Garcia of Fuerza Regida photographed on May 23, 2023 at Tranquility Canyon Ranch in Santa Clarita, Calif.
Martha Galvan
The Power Of Mexican
Mexican music has always been hugely popular in Mexico and the United States thanks to the large stateside Mexican American community that consumed the sounds and looks from home. Regional Mexican artists not only performed genres like banda and norteño but dressed the part with cowboy hats, boots and matching uniforms. But in the past decade, regional Mexican artists lost ground to a new Latin urban movement that took over the charts.
In that climate, Fuerza Regida didn’t debut strong but instead steadily built momentum as its sound, and moxie, evolved. “We were the group that was the suckiest in town,” JOP recalls with a chuckle. “Although we sucked with the instruments, we had a unique style.” In 2018, Fuerza Regida released its first local hit — “Uno Personal,” a Chayín Rubino cover — and things began “popping off,” as the members say. That year, they also released their live debut, En Vivo Puros Corridos.
During this time, a phenomenon on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border began to occur. Música mexicana equipped with a trap beat began to cross-pollinate and dominate streaming services. In 2018, corridos tumbados pioneer Natanael Cano from Hermosillo in Sonora, Mexico, and California group Herencia de Patrones began out-streaming some of the most notable players in pop and hip-hop.
Fuerza Regida also began making noise with its riveting corridos track “Radicamos En South Central” (2018), which was soon released by Rancho Humilde Records — the label that has been spearheading the música mexicana movement to unfathomable heights. “It really opened the doors for us,” JOP told Billboard in 2020. “Thanks to that song, Ramon Ruiz from Legado 7 discovered us and we got signed to two labels: his, Lumbre Music, and Rancho Humilde.”
Another turning point for the wider visibility of the movement was the group’s studio album Del Barrio Hasta Aquí (2019), which emerged as one of the leading trap corridos releases. On the cover, the then-four-piece appears to be crossing a street in front of a Santa Fe, N.M., pawn shop, like the cover of The Beatles’ Abbey Road. Sonically, the group took the rancheras out of Mexico and gave them a street-style, bicultural spin with a rags-to-riches lyrical approach, while still fondly reflecting on its neighborhood hustle. The album wound up appearing on several year-end critics’ lists.
Khrystian Ramos of Fuerza Regida photographed on May 23, 2023 at Tranquility Canyon Ranch in Santa Clarita, Calif.
Martha Galvan
It’s a sound that’s attracting both U.S. and Mexican fan bases. In the month of June, Fuerza Regida clocked 343 million views on its YouTube channel. And in one year’s time, the group has accumulated a staggering 2.9 billion streams on the platform, with Mexico responsible for 1.6 billion views and the United States 872 million. Guatemala, Colombia and Honduras follow. The band’s top two streaming markets by city in the last 12 months are Mexico City, at 219 million, and Los Angeles, with 91.7 million. Following them are Mexican cities Guadalajara (65.4 million), Monterrey (61.7 million) and Tijuana (52 million), Dallas (49.7 million) and Guatemala City (47.4 million).
On Spotify’s most-streamed list, Fuerza Regida is No. 196, as of June 22, gathering 24.2 million monthly listeners, with most from Mexico: Mexico City has 3.7 million listeners, followed by millions more in Guadalajara, Monterrey, Zapopan and Puebla.
Last year, the band signed a bigger deal with Sony Music Latin through Rancho Humilde, whose founder, Jimmy Humilde, “transmits the emotion he has for the music and the genre,” says Quintero. “From the first song I heard by them in 2019 up until now, I’ve always thought they’re artists with the street cred and language that makes them very current in Mexican music.”
But the group is looking to go beyond that. “We’re actually trying to manifest [a collaboration] with Karol G,” says JOP. “We got that song ready for her whenever she wants to hop on. We would love to expand our relationship with other genres and make this bigger than what it is now.”
When Billboard Español spoke to Fuerza Regida in May, the band was fresh off releasing its latest hit, “TQM.” The song debuted at No. 35 on the Hot 100 and No. 19 on the Billboard Global 200. The group was also in between tour stops on its Mexico trek, preparing to embark on its first arena tour in the United States. The Otra Peda Tour (or “Another Drunken Tour” in Mexican slang) begins July 7 and has already sold out multiple stops including the band’s first two shows, in Dallas at the Dos Equis Pavilion and in Los Angeles at BMO Stadium.
“[The fans] all need to be lit,” JOP says excitedly. “If they’re not lit, I got to get them lit — and make sure they’re all singing each song. If they’re not singing it, I got to figure it out and change that. They go to turn up, not to be bored,” he says, before adding with a smirk: “I love drinking too much on tour.”
Moisés López of Fuerza Regida photographed on May 23, 2023 at Tranquility Canyon Ranch in Santa Clarita, Calif.
Martha Galvan
Through it all, JOP has made big efforts to support up-and-coming talent, which he mentors under his label, Street Mob Records, founded in 2018 in partnership with Rancho Humilde. This year, Street Mob signed a distribution deal with Cinq Music, which will be working label artists including Chino Pacas, Calle 24 and Ángel Tumbado.
“Regional Mexican is one of the hottest and fastest[-growing] genres in the world right now, so to have that relationship with someone like Jesús means a lot to us,” says Cinq Music president Barry Daffurn. “From the time we first started working in regional Mexican music and the first time I sat down with Jimmy of Rancho Humilde, our goal was to bring this music global. The vision at that point was not to make it regional Mexican music, but more música mexicana, expanding it outside that network, to all the countries outside of [Latin America].”
The multiple deals are very much in line with how Jimmy Humilde works. “He’s like a mini me,” he says of JOP. “He listens to me a lot, and he’s a firecracker. He works very, very, very hard. We work together, we plan everything together.”
Samuel Jaimez of Fuerza Regida photographed on May 23, 2023 at Tranquility Canyon Ranch in Santa Clarita, Calif.
Martha Galvan
JOP’s artist Chino Pacas recently entered the Hot 100 with his groundbreaking song “El Gordo Trae El Mando,” a testament to the label’s support and JOP’s business acumen.
“I started my label a year after my career,” he says, “because I’ve always liked…”
“Business,” García chimes in.
“…Money,” JOP adds. “Hard work beats talent, always. A little bit of luck, a little bit of talent, and hard work. I consider myself an artist, but I got to work a little harder because I’m [also] an entrepreneur. I’m a businessman. I got my whole company. I’m doing these big deals with my artists. I’m probably going to make more money with my label than I ever did with my career, with Fuerza Regida, but that’s fine because I enjoy being an artist.”
“[JOP] is an entrepreneur, and now he has his own label,” Quintero says. “But independent of anything else, he’s on TikTok, on Reels, on the YouTube charts, everywhere, always sharing his music. I think that’s the big key to success for this new generation of música mexicana, and he’s a big leader in that.”
There’s even a YouTube clip of the band visiting the Tijuana border crossing and performing in the line of cars awaiting entry like músicos callejeros, or buskers. That’s where they met one of JOP’s latest signees, Chuy Montana. “We went to the line because we wanted to experience how it felt to play for the cars,” JOP says. “[Montana] used to work there about a month ago. Now he’s in concert with us.”
Samuel Jaimez, Moisés López, Jesús Ortiz Paz, Khrystian Ramos and José Garcia of Fuerza Regida photographed on May 23, 2023 at Tranquility Canyon Ranch in Santa Clarita, Calif.
Martha Galvan
In December, Fuerza Regida ambitiously released two full-length albums a few days apart, Pa Que Hablen and Sigan Hablando. The band supported the releases with publicity stunts like performing on the rooftop of a supermarket in San Bernardino. “Thousands” showed up, according to Quintero. “They really are the voice of the people when it comes to música mexicana today,” he says.
And increasingly, the group is becoming the voice of the people beyond Mexican and Mexican American audiences.
“Artists like Natanael Cano, Fuerza Regida and [others] are writing about things that are different from the stories in Mexico or about drug cartels [like traditional corridos or narcocorridos],” says Krystina DeLuna, Latin music programmer at Apple Music. “[JOP] is very proudly Mexican American, but he has always had that global mindset, [so] their approach to música mexicana is innovative. Whether they do a more traditional-leaning song or take risks and push boundaries, their essence always comes through and connects.”
Being Mexican American, JOP says, means that “you hit the gold pot. It’s the best.”
“I wouldn’t want to be Mexican. I wouldn’t want to be American,” he says. “I’m perfect.”
On Oct. 27, 2018, Portugal. The Man played its second sold-out hometown show at Alaska Airlines Center, a 5,000-capacity arena in Anchorage. It marked the end of a globe-spanning two-year trek promoting Woodstock, the band’s 2017 album that yielded its Grammy Award-winning crossover hit, “Feel It Still.” But as soon as the celebratory finale ended, frontman John Gourley was crying in a bathroom.
“I just broke down in tears,” he remembers. “The second we got offstage I was just realizing that emotionally, we took on so much for an introvert [like myself] who just prefers being at home. And being thrown into all of that, it was really intense. But we didn’t realize until that night, like, ‘Oh, wow. This is… difficult to do.’ ”
He had no idea that the following years would prove even more trying. That after having the biggest hit of the band’s career, Portugal. The Man would nearly fall apart. And that, 20 years after the group formed in Alaska in the early 2000s, he would be forced to face his anxieties as a frontman who cringes at attention to prevent its fragmentation.
Today, Gourley is back where he feels at ease. At 42, a boyish wonderment consumes him as he walks his father’s woodsy plot of land in Wasilla, just over 40 miles north of Anchorage. There’s the main house and its attached garage with floor-to-ceiling shelves of construction materials — the family business — and a greenhouse in the back. There’s the detached garage that stores a motorboat. And there are two small guest homes, one filled with music memorabilia, including sleeves of vinyl albums that inspired Gourley as a kid: The Beatles’ Revolver, the Bee Gees’ Idea, Jefferson Airplane’s Crown of Creation and dozens more. There’s a Portugal. The Man poster on one wall, and above the door frame, a life-size ticket stub from that last night of the band’s 2018 tour.
Portugal. The Man — a name inspired by David Bowie’s larger-than-life fame, contrasting the enormity of an entire country with a single person — initially formed as a side project led by Gourley and bassist Zach Carothers, both of whom got their start in the emo band Anatomy of a Ghost. The longtime friends and bandmates met at Wasilla High School and quickly started making music together — while also quickly realizing that to make it their career, they would have to leave Alaska.
“It was kind of my push,” says Gourley, who has since operated much like the Wizard of Oz, quietly leading from behind a curtain. “ ‘We’re going to leave Alaska and just keep going.’ So we bought a minivan and a rice cooker — we had no money at the time and probably spent more money on gas looking for a rice cooker at Goodwill. We found one for six bucks, went to the Asian market and got a 5 pound bag of rice and just went out on tour.”
Gourley at his father, John Gourley Sr.’s, house in Wasilla, standing in front of the tree he climbs in the music video for “Noise Pollution” off Woodstock.
Brian Adams
By 2004, they had made Portland, Ore. — a 44-hour drive southeast of Anchorage — their home base, fleshing out the band with drummer Jason Sechrist and keyboardist Ryan Neighbors along the way. In 2006, Portugal. The Man independently-released its debut album, Waiter: “You Vultures!” and within months signed with manager Rich Holtzman (currently senior vp of marketing and artist development at AEG Presents), who helped the act establish a five-year plan.
Festival appearances at Bonnaroo and Lollapalooza followed, as did four more independently released albums, arriving annually. All the while, Gourley maintained an unusual relationship with his role in the group: As much as he could, he avoided being a frontman entirely. He leaned on Carothers and the other band members to help absorb the spotlight, even performing with his back to the crowd.
By 2010, five years into its existence, Portugal. The Man signed a deal with Atlantic Records. “I just felt that they were so original and didn’t sound like any band out there at the time,” says Craig Kallman, the label’s chairman/CEO. He was so impressed, in fact, that he brought another then-rising signee — Bruno Mars — to see the band perform at the tiny (and since-closed) Los Angeles venue Space 15 Twenty. After the set, Mars offered a pivotal piece of feedback to Gourley: “That show was so cool, but all I could see was your ass.” Gourley has played facing his growing live audiences ever since.
Portugal. The Man has released three studio albums on Atlantic: 2011’s In the Mountain in the Cloud, 2013’s Evil Friends and 2017’s Woodstock. But while all landed in the top 50 of the Billboard 200, Woodstock altered the band’s trajectory completely, thanks to breakout single “Feel It Still.” The groovy, uptempo song — which samples The Marvelettes’ “Please Mr. Postman,” a Gourley family favorite on trips by dogsled to the grocery store — became an undeniable, and entirely unexpected, career-defining hit, and ushered in a series of firsts for the band.
“Feel It Still” scored Portugal. The Man its first Billboard Hot 100 entry, peaking at No. 4; it became the band’s first No. 1 on several charts, including Alternative Airplay, Hot Rock & Alternative Songs and Pop Airplay; and it earned the band its first Grammy nomination and win for best pop duo/group performance. (Gourley gave his trophy to Holtzman.) To date, “Feel It Still” has racked up 1.21 billion on-demand official U.S. streams and generated approximately $25 million globally (in recorded music and publishing royalties) from track sales, streams and radio play, Billboard estimates based on Luminate data. It’s also a go-to among music supervisors; the song has been Shazammed over 20 million times, earning key synch placements in the trailer for the film Peter Rabbit and shows including Love, Simon and Riverdale.
Though Gourley often refers to the hit vaguely as “that song,” he’s grateful for the success it brought the band. “ ‘Feel It Still’ gave us so much,” he says. “We have houses, I have a car… it feels so special and I’m just so gracious of everything that came along with that song.” But “emotionally, it was really difficult. It was this really stressful period for the band, just having that crossover success.”
Even so, the band believed it was ready to hit the ground running with its ninth album and hoped to return to the frequent release schedule of its early days. Mainstream success afforded the group its pick of producer, and the band ultimately landed on Jeff Bhasker, whom Gourley had dreamed of working with since Bhasker produced Kanye West’s game-changing 808s & Heartbreak. What was on track to be a two-year project became three, and then five, with the band finally turning in the album last December — and along the way, everything changed.
During that five-year period, the band members variously faced personal loss, addiction, a potentially career-ending health issue and an “aggressively progressive” diagnosis, all of which happened amid the isolation of the pandemic.
In 2019, Chris Black — a close friend who, after meeting the group in Los Angeles in the 2010s, became its unofficial DJ and MC — died suddenly. Black always kept the band members laughing, quick to crack a joke or put someone in their place. “It’s not common for a band like us to have an MC, but it made me feel really good,” says Gourley.
“He was also the glue for all of our friends,” he adds. “The thing that I miss the most is the way he held that friend group together… it just slipped away a little bit, and I think it’s difficult, recognizing that.” Coupled with the fact that, for the first time, the band members were living apart for an extended period of time through the pandemic, a natural rift formed — or perhaps widened — within it, leaving its lineup in limbo. Portugal. The Man has a long history of revolving musicians — its Wikipedia page includes a color-coded timeline of 13 past and present members’ histories — and Gourley and Carothers are the only two who appear on every album; the current lineup consists of Gourley (vocals, guitar), Carothers (vocals, bass), Zoe Manville (vocals, percussion), Kyle O’Quin (keys) and Eric Howk (guitar). (After rejoining in 2016, drummer Jason Sechrist has exited again.)
Gourley at his father’s house in Wasilla.
Brian Adams
The second of two guest homes on John Gourley Sr.’s plot of land, which houses music memorabilia.
Brian Adams
With the band members — who, up until Woodstock, had lived together — now by necessity living in the separate homes they only recently were able to afford, they were left alone with more time on their hands than ever before. By the end of 2018, Gourley was experiencing the worst pain of his life. He broke his jaw (the left side, he learned, had actually been broken for years; the right side snapped from the resulting pressure) and later split two teeth. He was bedridden for months, largely unable to sing or perform for over a year.
Then, in 2021, Gourley and Manville (who married in 2017) learned that their 11-year-old daughter, Frances, had a rare neurodegenerative genetic disease known as DHDDS, which shares symptoms with both dementia and Parkinson’s (she is one of only six known patients with her specific mutation). By June 2022, Howk, Carothers and O’Quin had all battled different addictions and entered rehab (the three members declined to share further related details).
Now, come June 23, Chris Black Changed My Life — the album that began with Bhasker almost five years ago — will chronicle the band’s turbulent last few years following the runaway success of “Feel It Still.” Though the album is finished, the band is still working itself out — and determining in real time how to juggle what comes next, from promotion to touring. With the band members’ relationships and finances riding on this album’s success, Gourley is now embracing the role he has long avoided: an actually-front-facing frontman.
“Everybody has their personal things going on. We finally understand what has been happening with Frances,” he says. “The stakes have changed. The motivation has changed. The reason I’m doing this — it has all changed. I can’t be the anxiety-ridden kid anymore. There’s this moment of adulthood and growing up or whatever it is… It’s stepping out and taking on that role in a way that I haven’t in the past.”
“Who the f–k is Portugal. The Man?”
That’s the question Jeff Bhasker found himself asking in 2017, when he randomly browsed iTunes after a period where he had tuned out popular music. “No. 1, ‘Feel It Still’ by Portugal. The Man,” he recalls. “Just the name of their band was kind of arresting and makes you curious. It got me really interested in who they were.”
About a year later, the group showed up at his door. “We were traveling around L.A. doing the tour of producers that wanted to work with us post-massive song and they’re all like, ‘They must have another one in there!’ I’ve written a hundred songs, dude. I have one,” Gourley says with a laugh.
To determine who should produce its next album, the band decided the best approach was to just get in the studio and write. Bhasker was at the top of its wish list — but when the band members arrived, instruments in hand, at his house, he proposed they have a conversation before jumping in. “We just listened to music and talked about Alaska and experience and clicked as people,” says Gourley.
“I like to let the artist tell me who they are and meet them where they’re at,” Bhasker explains. “It was so interesting hearing about the white van and the rice cooker — just on the highest level of being a broke band. I love the way they describe their progression of like, ‘Well, on the first album, we learned how to play our instruments.’ ”
Gourley skipping rocks.
Brian Adams
Gourley at Knik Lake.
Brian Adams
Bhasker says the years that followed — pandemic aside — felt like an “Usain Bolt-level sprint to finish the album,” with the band clocking hours at studios in Los Angeles, New York and Portland, as well as Bhasker’s studio in Malibu, Calif., and Sonic Ranch in Tornillo, Texas, where Portugal. The Man recorded its first album with Atlantic over a decade prior.
After first signing with the label, Gourley explains, he’d felt the need to bring his bandmates into the studio for his mostly solitary writing process. (Through In the Mountain in the Cloud, the sole writing credits on the band’s albums are his.) “It was just this feeling of like, ‘We’re a band — everybody comes in,’ ” he says. “And I think it was also the expectation of producers a lot of the time. They always think, ‘Stick Portugal. The Man in a room and they’ll just jam and sing.’ That has been the process every single time, and we had never done it pre-Atlantic.”
For the band’s ninth album, everyone left the studio at first — “It felt more personal,” Gourley says — though O’Quin eventually joined most sessions, and Carothers and Manville are credited as co-writers on several tracks.
Gourley recalls his first recording session while still rehabbing his jaw, working again with Electric Guest’s Asa Taccone (who co-wrote and co-produced “Feel It Still”) on four tracks that made it onto Chris Black Changed My Life. Looking back now, he says the brooding and downtempo “Plastic Island” stands out most because he can hear himself literally singing through his teeth, since he still couldn’t open his jaw all the way. On the song, he wonders: “Is it the end, my friend?” The album’s pensive closing track — the nearly six-minute-long “Anxiety:Clarity” featuring veteran songwriter and ASCAP president Paul Williams — opens with the line: “I’m not supposed to be here.”
“That’s the way I was feeling coming out of everything and finally getting to express myself after two years of like, ‘I don’t think I’ll ever be able to do this again,’ ” says Gourley. “I laid in bed thinking I would never be able to do anything ever again. I thought I was going to die. I thought about Frances, and what’s she going to do? I was depressed.”
Frances herself appears on the album, singing on “Ghost Town” and “Time’s a Fantasy”; Gourley calls the latter, which also features Canadian rapper Sean Leon and Bhasker, one of the album’s heavier songs. “We had just found out that Frances has this very rare genetic disease,” he recalls. “Zoe and I were just bawling in the studio with Jeff and Sean, and Frances ended up singing on it. She must have felt some spiritual connection to this song because it’s so slow and emotional, but she would hear it and loved singing [the line], ‘I got a feeling it’s gonna be just fine.’ ” (The band recently launched a donation page called Frances Changed My Life to raise money to fund both multimillion-dollar research and treatment for her.)
An old boat seen in a Portugal. The Man music video on Knik Lake stuck in the silt flats.
Brian Adams
Gourley wears a shirt honoring the band’s late friend and unofficial member Chris Black.
Brian Adams
Bhasker says nailing down the album’s subject matter was understandably difficult. “It’s all about John’s anxiety, and all of them and everything they went through and are all going through as a band, as a family, as people who just struggled to achieve a dream — and achieved it,” he says. “And then maybe questioned, ‘What are we doing here, and what do we really stand for?’ ”
Both Bhasker and Gourley recall their time at Sonic Ranch in the fall of 2022 fondly, mostly because that’s where a thematic track list started to take shape. “To see the album kind of emerge, and most of all to see a smile on John’s face… it was kind of like a ’70s movie where they would just shoot endless footage and hope there’s a movie in there,” says Bhasker. “And then to see the movie unfold and work was the most satisfying moment.”
The end result is a deeply layered and complex album that is equally beautiful and heartbreaking; with everything Gourley and the band have endured, and continue to experience, how could it be anything else? Even the uptempo lead single, “Dummy,” co-written with Taccone (and which debuted in a Taco Bell commercial), hints at the album’s unifying ethos: “Everyone I know is running from the afterlife,” sings Gourley.
“It is our best album,” Gourley confidently states. “I was really surprised when we got to the end of it, because this had been the thing that I had been searching for forever. It’s these really tight, concise ideas, like, ‘Can you tell a story in a sentence?’ I obsess over that, and I feel like this record, we did it. I did the thing that we were chasing. This is what I have been trying to write forever.”
Gourley exhales, taking in the towering snowcapped mountains of Hatcher’s Pass, just north of Wasilla. These are the mountains he would ditch high school to snowboard with Carothers. The same ones he recently carried Frances up while she napped on his shoulders. And the same ones that today are prompting him to wonder why he ever left. “I just miss Alaska so much,” he says with a sigh.
In a recent clip on Instagram — part of the band’s Knik Country Broadcast series, in which Gourley answers quick-hit questions — Gourley said, “Everything I’ve ever written is about Alaska.” It’s also fair to say everything that Portugal. The Man does is for Alaska.
In 2020, while still enjoying the “Feel It Still” high, the band launched the PTM Foundation — the acronym is a double-entendre that also stands for Pass the Mic — which advocates for human rights, community health and the environment, with a particular focus on Indigenous Peoples. (In 2022, the foundation raised $93,000 in grants given to 40 different tribes, impact organizations and community groups.) The band was always intended to serve more than itself, operating with curiosity and care for the surrounding world — and questioning its place in it.
When Bhasker started working with Portugal. The Man, it had been a while since his last collaboration with a band (by his estimation, it was with fun. on its 2012 smash hit, “We Are Young,” featuring Janelle Monáe). “It was definitely a challenge to navigate all the dynamics and all the growth and all the changes they had been going through — and especially during COVID, when everyone was going through all kinds of existential changes and being faced with a lot of really deep, personal struggles and revelations in their lives.”
As Gourley sees it, the success of “Feel It Still” — paired with perhaps too much time apart — amplified and exposed those individual struggles. “I think with that song being so successful so late in our career, it’s a rare thing,” he says. “Eighth record, a song like that? There comes complacency: ‘I’m content. I have a house. I don’t have to do this.’ But I still feel very hungry.”
A pair of moose on the way down from Hatcher’s Pass.
Brian Adams
Gourley on the road through Hatcher’s Pass.
Brian Adams
Playing so many festivals, in particular, he believes, can be “the death of a band… I was forgetting lyrics to ‘Feel It Still’ because of the monotony — and I love that song. I love that song more than any song we’ve ever written. I have never been built to show up and play a setlist, and we got stuck in that for a long time. I think people want comfort, and I feel like comfort is actually not the best thing for creativity.”
Portugal. The Man relentlessly toured through 2019 and resumed in 2022, co-headlining arenas with Alt-J. But this year, despite a new album, its schedule is significantly pared down. In June, it returned to Bonnaroo and in August will play Lollapalooza Chicago followed by the Austin City Limits festival in October. Otherwise, it has booked only a handful of headlining shows at iconic venues in key territories, like Colorado’s Red Rocks, New York’s Radio City Music Hall and Los Angeles’ Hollywood Bowl. The band’s live lineup adds four new musicians to the mix, including a new drummer.
When speaking of what the band’s present — and future — looks like, it’s clear Gourley isn’t entirely sure what to say, or how. He’s cautious not to speak only for himself but also not for anyone else, often seesawing between “I” and “we.” (The band’s other members did not speak for this story; for this album cycle, Gourley has chosen to do press by himself.) He recalls a particular phone call with legendary musician and singer Edgar Winter, whose “Dying To Live” is sampled on the Chris Black Changed My Life track “Champ.”
“This is what I would say about the situation with the band,” says Gourley. “It’s a pretty easy way to sum it up: [Edgar] called me one day and said, ‘I’m going to tell you about the best band I ever played in. The best band I ever played in lived in Chicago in a one-bedroom apartment. We had all had success, but we lived in a one-bedroom apartment. We could all afford things, but we lived in a one-bedroom apartment. We ate together, we slept together, we had this experience together. As soon as we got our own places, we stopped being the best band I ever played in.’
“The thing is, no matter where I go, I’m still sleeping on the floor in that one-bedroom apartment,” continues Gourley, speaking in a slow, hushed voice. “For this band to keep going, you have to have that excitement constantly around you, so you don’t forget that we worked really hard to get [here].”
He already has his sights set on the album after this one. “I am so excited to go back into outer space and do the craziest [stuff] and experiment with structure post-this record,” he says.
But for now, he’s grounding himself where it all started — running around with his nieces and nephews at his father’s house, hanging from wooden beams like monkey bars. Fortunately for Gourley, he can always come back home. As his father fondly jokes, “When he started playing music, we lost our best roofer.”
After all this time, it seems a fair trade. Gourley found himself.
06/22/2023
John Gourley in his home state of Alaska.
06/22/2023
