How Cirkut’s Vision for the Future of Pop Boosted Lady Gaga & ROSÉ’s Latest Hot 100 Hits

When it comes to pop music track records, Cirkut’s illustrious résumé in the genre speaks for itself.

As a sought after electro-pop producer and songwriter, the 38-year-old artist born Henry Walter has spent the last two decades churning out hits for artists like The Weeknd (“Starboy, “Die For You”), Rihanna (“Where Have You Been”), Katy Perry (“Roar,” “Dark Horse”), Miley Cyrus (“Wrecking Ball”), Charli XCX (“360”) and dozens of others. But as he explains to Billboard, he goes out of his way to not get too comfortable with his success.

“I never want to rest on my past accomplishments, and that vibe of ‘Oh, do you know all my work? Do you know all my hits?’” he explains. “That doesn’t mean anything to me. Whether I’m working with the biggest star in the world or the newest artist, you have to prove yourself over and over again.”

By his own definition, Cirkut has done just that: Over the last month, the producer has helped launch two artists into the upper echelons of the Billboard Hot 100. His work with veteran hitmaker Lady Gaga on her dark pop single “Disease” sent the song to a No. 27 debut on the chart. Meanwhile K-pop sensation ROSÉ earned her highest-charting solo single with “APT.,” featuring Bruno Mars, arriving at No. 8, thanks in no small part to Cirkut’s catchy production. He earned writing credits on both tracks as well.

The producer attributes the successes of both Gaga and ROSÉ to their singular ideas of what they want in their music — a trait he looks for in all the artists he works with. “When an artist doesn’t really know what they want to say, or is like, ‘I don’t know, just make me a song,’ that doesn’t interest me,” he says. “The best artists always have some kind of vision, whether it’s how they see the visuals coming together, how they want the guitar to sound, or how hard the kick drums hit.”

Below, Cirkut breaks down the writing processes for both “Disease” and “APT.,” why Lady Gaga stands out in a crowded field of pop stars, how an ad-libbed drinking game inspired ROSÉ’s hit song, and what he envisions for the future of pop music.

Let’s go all the way back to the beginning — when and how did you first get involved with Gaga and her team for this project?

It happened sometime last year — I had been working with [“Disease” co-writer/co-producer] Andrew Watt for a while. We [had] worked on a few different things together, and one day he called me and said, “What do you think about working with Gaga?” He said that we would be a great fit to do this project together. So, I met Gaga for the first time in the studio, and it was amazing. I was really excited to work with her, we were off to the races as soon as we met.

What immediately appealed to you about the prospect of working with Gaga?

I’ve been a fan over the years, she is just a legendary artist. There’s only one Gaga, and she has influenced so many of the artists who are out now. I think her music paved the way for so many people. Selfishly, I did want to see what I could accomplish with her. Just the thought of wondering what a Gaga record would sound like if I produced it was really exciting from the get-go.

When you look back on the inception of “Disease,” was there a stated goal with that song? What were you aiming to accomplish?

It was just one song in a collection that we worked on together, but fairly early in the process, we all loved it and knew that it would be some kind of cornerstone of this body of work. “Disease” [is] a daring record to me. It’s very aggressive. I wouldn’t say it’s a safe, “nice” song to ease you into things. I was spending some time with my mom the other day and she asked what I’d been working on — I threw on the music video for “Disease,” and she was just stunned and saying “oh my God” a lot. It’s a very in-your-face kind of record.

I do all kinds of music, but I love aggressive electronic music. When Watt and I get together, something just kind of happens — with his rock background, we end up bringing in a lot of heavy guitars, and I wanted to make it this cool, industrial synth dance record. When you listen to the final result, I’m pretty happy with how we melded those two things.

What do you remember from the studio sessions with Gaga here — were there any particular moments where it felt like things really locked in for you?

We all huddled up at the beginning to see if we had any common ground when it came to taste in music and the places we wanted to go with the sound. She was very instrumental in leading that discussion. We all wanted to make something that still felt like it was decidedly Gaga, but always asking the question of “What does that sound like today?” That’s always a challenge, especially with artists who have established themselves so firmly in pop culture, to figure out that balance. Do you do something so different that you move away from the things that you are known for? But if you just do the same thing that you’ve been known for, does that end up feeling like a “more-of-the-same” type situation? I wanted to make sure that we brought the essence of Gaga into this song and all of the things that are so great about her — the drama, the theatrics, that in-your-face sound — but still putting a fresh spin on it. That said, you also cannot overthink things too much on something like this. Ultimately, you just have to get in there and have fun.

We definitely had a synergy in the studio. In the beginning, it is kind of a trial run [with a new collaborator]. It felt a little bit like she was feeling me out, trying to figure out where I was coming from when it came to production. But then there was kind of a breakthrough moment — I had been working through something over my headphones, and when I played it out loud, she was just like, “Oh my God, Cirkut, that’s crazy.” And as soon as that happened it was like, “Great, I got through to her.” It’s not like she was difficult to impress, but I wanted us to be on the same page. I treat every project I work on like that — you have to approach it from the mind of being a student always, rather than a know-it-all. I’m always learning from new people.

You’ve worked on massive hits from artists like The Weeknd, Rihanna, Miley Cyrus, Kesha and Charli XCX. As someone who has been in the room with so many of these major pop stars, how does Gaga stand out amongst that pack?

I think something all the great artists that I’ve worked with have in common is that they all have a vision. Whether it’s fully realized or not doesn’t matter — there is always intention and direction behind the art that they’re making. Even if that’s not fully fleshed out, I find that to be really important. There is always an opinion.

Gaga is very much like that — she is very interested in the sonics of everything. She would say, “Maybe try a different drum here,” or she would hop on the synths and start playing things. She’s a musician and a visionary, and she knew all about the attack, decay, sustain and release settings on a synth. She is all about the details, which definitely sets her apart from a lot of artists. Also, the passion that she puts into her work is amazing. She really lives and breathes and eats and sweats and bleeds this music.

“Disease” is not the only track of yours currently on the Hot 100 — ROSÉ’s “APT.,” featuring Bruno Mars debuted at No. 8 debut earlier this month. Tell me a little bit about how you got involved on that song, and what ROSÉ and Bruno were like to work with?

I don’t try to say, “Oh, I knew this would be a hit,” because I simply do not have that kind of foresight. But I thought this one was a really great, fun, catchy song, and I really loved working with Rosie. I was so excited when she had played the song for Bruno and I heard that he was getting involved, because I genuinely feel like he took it to another level.

We worked together probably three days in a row in the studio, and I think [“APT.”] was one of the last ideas we started. It was the end of the night, we had just done a song or two, and we were like, “Might be time to go home.” And Rosie was sitting there and just sort of chanting to herself, “apateu, apateu.” I think it was [co-writer] Theron [Thomas] who stopped her and asked what it was. She said, “It’s just a Korean thing, it’s basically a drinking game.” All of us were immediately like, “Why is that not a song?” We took that and put together a very quick hook. It was kind of random — I love it when stuff like that happens! It’s not always planned. It’s not always, “We’re going to get in the studio and make a mega hit featuring Bruno Mars.” Sometimes it’s a spontaneous session based on a drinking game. Sometimes somebody is whispering something in the corner, and it becomes this incredible hook.

As someone who has been as vital as you are in creating these massive pop moments throughout your career, how do you view the direction pop music is headed today? What are you seeing in the pop space right now that feels like something that will continue on into the future?

More than ever, almost anything goes. Nowadays, because there’s so much music out there, listeners are so discerning. They like what they like, and it is up to us — creators, producers, songwriters, artists — to show people fresh, new things that they haven’t heard 1,000 times already. Sure, there are trends that go in and out of style, but sometimes, it can be about just changing one thing, and all of a sudden you’ve got a fresh new sound.

Honestly, I try not to think about all of this too much because it can be a little overwhelming. The “next sound” could literally be anything. I really try to just create and not think about the future because that can ultimately remove the spontaneity of it. Messing around and stumbling upon something you love is kind of the random magic that happens. In the age of [artificial intelligence], I think that’s a tool that is here to stay, whether people like it or not, and I do think it could help when it comes to creativity in the studio. But, at the end of the day, it’s the human element of production and songwriting that succeeds. People care about authenticity, they want something that’s real, and listeners are not stupid.

A version of this story appears in the Nov. 16, 2024, issue of Billboard.

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