‘Ethical’ AI Music Firms React to the Majors’ Suno-Udio Licensing Talks: ‘We Just Get Left Behind’

The three major music companies — Sony Music, Universal Music Group and Warner Music Group — are in talks with AI music companies Suno and Udio to license their works as training data, despite suing the two startups for infringement “on an almost unimaginable scale” last summer. Now, executives in the “ethical” or “responsible” AI music space are voicing displeasure that the alleged infringers could potentially benefit from their actions.

Several of those ethical AI companies said they were led to believe they would be rewarded by the record labels for going through the tough process of licensing music from the beginning, in what one AI music company founder previously told Billboard would be “a carrot and stick approach to AI,” penalizing those who raced ahead and trained models without permission or compensation.

“That’s all out the window,” that founder says now. “I was talking to another founder that does ethical AI voice models, and he told me, ‘F–k it. I don’t care anymore. Why does it matter to be ethical if we just get left behind?’”

Ed Newton-Rex, founder of non-profit Fairly Trained, which certifies ethically-trained AI models, adds: “If I were running a startup that had tried to do the right thing — respecting creators’ rights — and investors had rejected me because I wasn’t exploiting copyrighted work like so many others, and then this happened? I’d definitely be pissed off.”

Tracy Chan, CEO of AI music company Splash, told Billboard via email that she stands by her decision to license music from the start. “At Splash, being ethically trained wasn’t a debate — it was obvious,” she says. “We’re musicians and technologists. We believe AI should amplify creativity, not exploit it. We don’t need to scrape the world’s music to make that happen.”

It remains unclear how far along these licensing talks are between the major music companies and Suno and Udio, and if deals will even come to fruition to avert the blockbuster lawsuits. It’s common in costly and lengthy litigation like this for the two sides to discuss what it would look like to settle the dispute outside of court. Plus, licensing is what the majors have wanted from AI companies all along — does it matter how they come to it?

Multiple executives expressed fear that if the majors ditch the lawsuit and go for deals, they will set a bad precedent for the entire business. “Basically, if they do this deal, I think it would send a message to big tech that if you want to disrupt the music industry, you can do whatever you want and then ask for forgiveness later,” says Anthony Demekhin, CEO/co-founder of Tuney.

This, however, is not the first time the music business has considered a partnership with tech companies that were once their enemy. YouTube, for example, initially launched without properly licensing all of the music on its platform first. In his 2024 New Years’ address to staff, Lucian Grainge, CEO/chairman of UMG, alluded to this, and how he would do it differently this time with his so-called “responsible AI” initiative. “In the past, new and often disruptive technology was simply released into the world, leaving the music community to develop the model by which artists would be fairly compensated and their rights protected,” he wrote, adding that “in a sharp break with the past,” UMG had formed a partnership with YouTube to “give artists a seat at the table” to shape the company’s AI products, and that the company would also collaborate “with several [other] platforms on numerous opportunities and approaches” in the AI space.

Another part of Grainge’s “responsible AI” initiative was “to lobby for ‘guardrails,’ that is public policies setting basic rules for AI.” Mike Pelczynski, co-founder of ethical AI voice company Voice-Swap, also worries that if these deals go through, they could weaken the music industry’s messaging to Capitol Hill, where bills like the NO FAKES Act are still in flux. “All the messaging we had before, all the hard-lining about responsible AI from the beginning, it’s gone,” he says. “Now, if policy makers look at [the music business] they might say, ‘Wait, what side should we take? Where do you stand?’”

If talks about licenses for Suno and Udio move forward, determining exactly how that license works, and how artists will be paid, will be complex. To date, almost all “ethical” AI companies are licensing their musical training data from production libraries, which offer simple, one-stop licenses for songs. Alex Bestall, CEO of music production house and AI company Rightsify, says that the structure of those deals are typically “flat-fee blanket licenses for a fixed term, often one to three years or in some cases perpetuity… all data licensing [music or otherwise] is pretty standardized at this point.”

It’s unclear if the deals the majors have discussed with Suno and Udio will follow this framework, but if they did, the question then comes — how do the majors divide up those fees for their artists and writers? The Wall Street Journal reported that “the [music] companies want the startups to develop fingerprinting and attribution technology — similar to YouTube’s content ID — to track when and how a song is used.” In that scenario, the money received would be given to signees based on usage.

While there are a few startups working on music attribution technology right now, multiple experts tell Billboard they don’t think the tech is ready yet. “Attribution is nowhere,” says Newton-Rex, who also previously worked as vp of audio at Stability AI. “It’s not even close. There’s no system that I have seen that would do a decent job of accurately assigning attribution to what has inspired a given song.”

Even the possibility of deals between the parties has sparked a larger conversation about how to handle tech companies who ask for forgiveness — and not for permission — from the music business.

“If the two biggest offenders actually become the legal standard, it’s effectively like making Pirate Bay into Spotify,” says Demekhin. “I understand it from a business perspective because it’s the path of least resistance [to settle and get a license now]. But this could send a message to tech that could bite the industry on the next wave.”